How Starsky Carr has less than 50k subscribers... is astonishing! This guy makes some of the best synth videos on RUclips! So if you have'nt liked and subbed, please do so now!
12:46 That watery smooth lfo modulation is so nice and "retro electro-psychedelic" sounding. Big fan of that sound, the 106 just has so much character.
thanks for this video mate. Money is tight so I am not in the market for a 106 but have been wondering if the Alpha was the sleeper bargain people said it was and this video definitely proved it was.
Excellent comparison. I agree with the conditions. I don't use self oscillating filters anyway. I just bought an Alpha Juno 1 last week coincidentally, and I'm very happy with it.
only problem is that with a guitar case the handle is offset from the centre for balance.. teenage me carrying it for miles ended up with one particularly strong wrist!! thats what I'm putting it down to anyway.
The thing about 106's filter is that, to my ears, it tends to give 106 a more open overall sound, probably because of the high frequencies and harmonics the filter brings to the table. However, 106 has the very common problem with the voice chips, and that is an expensive maintenance. So in 2019, I'd say 106 has become more of a collector's item than a workhorse for a musician looking for those sounds. The better option if you just want the hardware, the sound palette, and don't have collector's money is, it seems clear now, an Alpha.
Everyone should've already bought their Junos by now anyway, if somebody hasn't got a Juno or several by now then there's not point even considering it. Its just standard part of arsenal and the voice chips can just be soaked in acetone to remove the gunk that create the problems.. Replacement "cloned" chips will never be the same, people who fall for that don't have common sense / ears.
Hey Starsky, I knew you were awesome, but I didn’t know you were this awesome. Use the aj2 live all the time. Never one issue. I’ll say it: best juno. Period.
Another really great thing about the Alpha is the size, especially the Alpha 1 which is smaller than the 2. It does look a bit like a home keyboard to me, but it sounds soooo good I don't care!
I wouldn't mind the smaller size of the -1 except that the -1 doesn't have a velocity sensitive keyboard whle the -2 does, tho it will respond to velocity and aftertouch received via MIDI.
This is a GREAT comparison video! you've put such a big effort on it... I've owned a J106 and I replaced it by a J60, which I love... either way, I still miss the J106 sub pads and was wondering to have one back again. By looking at your video, I'll definitely go for an Alpha Juno 2. I believe it will the best teammate for the J60. Thank you!!
I own a 106, and have 60 envy. It's just even harder to justify the $2k+ the 60's sell for these days. But if I had a 60, I understand pairing it with an alpha.
I have an AJ-1, I leave it on a shelf on the wall, use it as a module, controlling from BCR2000 and external fully expressive keyboard. So far, perfect for me, plus: the Chorus is crystal clear, no noise at all. Amazing! I had an AJ-2 before with a very hissy chorus, it really waters down the experience. A 106 is coming by and this video is perfect for that situation. I might be keeping only the Alpha after all, no room for an extra big keyboard, especially considering 106's voice chips situation. I'm not sure about the conditions of this 106 I'm about to get. But, of course things may change once the synth is in my hands...
I bought my Juno 1 (keyboard not sensitive, but the sounds are) new in 1987 I guess and still have it but seldom used it nowadays. It's as brand new with everything working. Nice to stumble upon this video giving me inspiration. As I'm mostly playing guitar it is located at its stand covered with a cloth to keep the dust away. Entertaining video, thanks!
I get the impression from looking at the chip complements in the various Roland synths (found a "this synth has this oscillator and this filter" chart somewhere) that the aJuno was essentially a JX8p with just one oscillator.
Maybe similar parts but I think they sound pretty different. Maybe the values are calibrated differently internally or something. I've owned a JX-8P, Juno 106 and still have an Alpha Juno 1.
Fantastically of use. Thank you. I have a Juno 2 I bought new back then. Been working on restoring it. Almost done but the aftertouch is shot (high resistance if I remember correctly) and from what I've seen it's a scary procedure. I don't relish taking out all the keys, for starters. I had a friend with the 106 and the programmer with sliders which was amazing. I got the Juno Ctrl last year and I love it. Don't really think much about memory patches at all anymore - just grab the knobs.
Now that doesn't make any sense. It must have been a JX-3P with a PG-200 controller. It was a few years before I bought my alpha so that would be about right.
My after touch has never worked... when I first got it I wondered what the A meant in the mod options! No idea what needs to be replaced? But I’ve had the Keybed out to fix other bugs and need to use graphite paint to replace some eroded parts where I spilt Guinness years ago.
@@StarskyCarr The procedure I've seen is pretty intimidating: supersynthprojects.com/roland-superjx-maintenance/jx10-aftertouch/ It was kind of neat when it was new and worked but I've never felt I needed it. I could see how some of these highly expressive keyboard-like things - Rolli Seabord would be cool.
Oh and here's a tip from experience: When replacing the LCD, those screws look like they could use some locktite. Not a terrible idea. It is a terrible idea to let the locktite leak into your brand new $5 display drop-shipped from China.
Had both synths and came to exactly the same conclusions years ago, so I sold the 106. No point in having two synths that sound so similar, and the Alpha easily wins out on flexibility and reliability. And hoovers.
I never realized how close the AJ could sound to the 106, besides the filters of course. I loved the AJ2, as it is a great first analog poly these days. Not too expensive and can sound lovely, and like the 106, can make great basses. Personally, I always found the expanded saw waveforms quite useful, just for something different. The 106 sounds great, but it can get a tad boring at times, if you like sound design. I made a lot of good music with the AJ2 and JX-3P, another Roland that can sound very close to a Juno at times, but with a sort of bad interface. Really wish Roland would make a sort of Juno legacy edition. A best of Roland DCO poly, with all of the features of the Juno series in one. I’d buy it!
Yeah, my impression after playing a Juno 6 in a shop in 2004 or so, it's a nice simple sound with a nice arpeggiator, but a tad samey after a while...probably why people went all digital in the 80s
Great video, some people say, alphajuno is difficult to program. It maybe bit time consuming because of only 1 rotary dial, however it is such a great small package filled with goodies, such joy to play and experiment with, cheers :)
Amazing work put into this comparision. Honestly im not fan of screaming self oscilating filter sounds and kinda like the one on alphas more, its smooooooooooth sounding in pads / strings. :) Anyways this vid also confirms that with alpha I dont need 106 for my setup at all. THanks and all the best.
Nice one. Thanks for noticing the effort!!! I had my alpha first and I’ve now realised I don’t really see much benefit from owning the 106 as well. A nice to have... 👍
Great comparison, as usual. There were a lot of sounds there where I actually preferred the Alpha - mostly in ~ the second half of your vid. Both have some great sounds ... Argh, GAS! Lol ... Cheers! Be well - K
diggin the fact that after all this time,from when S C did this vid, and from when the 106/@juno came out,they are still relevant to todays music,can still fit right in with any genre and are thoroughly enjoyed by players and player/techs like myself of all ages.
This is such a great vid and one I’ve watched many times! Part of matching sounds is dialing in the right chorus rate. I’ve measured and documented the chorus rate for all values from 0 to 127 on the Alpha Juno. I’ve also measured the chorus rates of all the Roland synths that I own and also the plug outs, so you can see which parameter value for the chorus rate will get you closest to whatever synth you’re aspiring to emulate. There is a chorus comparison video on my channel if anyone wants to check it out. There’s a link to my documented findings in the description as well.
@@theothertonydutch I only measured the ones that I personally own. Would be interesting to see what the differences are if others want to measure theirs to compare. It’s super easy with the JX-3p and Juno-6/60 just because the chorus is so noisy. The peaks of the chorus LFO cycles jump out in the audio waveform. So just turn it on, turn on the chorus, record it for a few seconds without pressing any keys, then stop the recording and normalize or increase the gain of the recorded sample. Then measure the time between the peaks.
The variable chorus of the Alpha Juno is much more valuable than the higher resonance of the 106 IMO. There are a lot of analog mono synths on the market that can do that sound. It would be interesting to compare the Alpha Juno to the Novation Peak, since they both use the fairly unusual numerically controlled oscillators with analog filters.
this is a very complete comparison. The Alpha Juno takes the prize for me. I can do without the self oscillating filter. The Alpha ticks all the typical Roland sound boxes otherwise. I used to have a Juno6 back in the early 80ies and since I hated it back then I never cared for it's successors either ( friend had them). I wanted the fat US sound so I went with Ensoniq ESQ1 back then . Now I can see that a typical Roland fits in very nicely in my synth Pallete
I have two Juno 106 synths (well, one is a 106 and one is there HS-60 version) and for some crazy reason, I want an Alpha Juno as well... There's something about them that I just really enjoy. I think maybe it's the inability to tinker on the fly allows for me to just enjoy the sound as is. If I can find a super cheap one, just might have to pick one up and maybe sell one of my 106s... Great video!
Not really crazy cause the alpha does around 80% of what 106 can for all the edgier mono res filter stuff i have an ms-20 and slim phatty there is an advantage on poly res filter sweeps etc.
@@StarskyCarr I ended up getting it and I'm absolutely in love. Thank you for making this video, I didn't realize it was nearly identical to a juno 106. I'm going to try and create my own midi controller to make it control similarly to a 106
I completely agree with your conclusions. Nothing wrong with the 106, but the AJ2 is a bargain and more reliable. I have that iPad app and I love the way the parameters change with the patch. Just brilliant.
@@rachelar Yea, agree that the feel is really nice. But with having other synths with aftertouch and midi out it isnt much issue (incl. JX8P with pretty similair keys).
It seems like it should be possible to mod the Alpha's filter to allow for that extra resonance that's in the 106. Most ICs will have these as external components. Might be worth looking into :)
@@StarskyCarr Very interesting. Just my observations as an EE. I'm actually looking into getting an Alpha for my setup. If I do, I'll have to take a look at the service manual or something
If you can get an alpha juno 2, hold onto it. Fantastic synth and probably the best keybed I've ever used on a synth, so it makes an amazing master controller in addition to sounding good.
The velocity on the Alpha Juno keys doesn't go all the way up. That's a problem for some external patches, if you are using it as a master controller. You can try hitting the keys hard, but even so it's hard to reach full velocity.
Have you ever tried the chord memory for an octave hack instead of a chord say like 1c above and perhaps 1c an octave higher for 3-note chords or perhaps 3 octave C's for lead basses or leads etc etc doing that would almost get past the single oscillator you could do fifths as well for 3 note's
It just a raw sawtooth with filters fully open, no env on the filter. No Pulse, sub or noise or chorus. And a short env release time. The raw sound is really nice - glad you noticed :)
Got recently ALJ2, still need to learn to program it properly, so far i like it, but i think it sound bit thiner then Juno 106. Sounds are quite limited in terms of different sound(to me a lot of presets sounds prety much like variation of the same sound), but what it do, it do it great in its unique way.
hi ya, excellent , in-depth video. I ove your vids. Having seen the Juno chorus comparison here i looked up the TC - electronic juno pedal and i'm not convinced. I wondered if you would do a vid on the pedal using your juno or any other synths for that matter. There are videos online (non scouser haha) but it doesent seem to have the same effect at all of the junos you played here. It may be because they are putting new stereo synths like the polyend and rev 2 's into the tc- electronic juno pedal mono signal which then turns it back into stereo? I dont know. Just wondered what your take on it was. :)
I owned both and I prefer the 106. RUclips videos can be deceiving (just look at people talking about how great the Jupiter Xm sounds and then play it yourself compared to a Juno or Ob6, etc.). The alpha will make you smile, but the 106 will make you cry. There's a reason it's still used in studios across genres to this day. I've never enjoyed the hoover or chord memory sounds and I prefer the 106's filter, both in terms of resonance and just general sweeps, etc. The Alpha Juno 2 is admittedly the better value, but the heart wants what it wants. I go to my juno for flawless pads, bells, plucks, and basses. I'd love to see a comparison of the Alpha Juno, the 106 and the 60, as the 60 is now $2000+ used. Juno Battle Royale, make it happen.
Flawless you say? My 106 had plenty flaws, dropping notes, oscillators etc which made it good to sample but useless in a live setting unless layered with..... You guessed it.. An Alpha Juno!
great video :) not ever selling my AJ2 ! :D I don't suppose you saved the patch created at @12:35 ? Or any quick pointers on how to get there? ;) Thanks!
I kind of view the self-resonant squaling as when the filter shits the bed. Plenty of sweep patches in the Alpha that sound REALLY great(it's a great sounding filter compared to the 106 up until the 106's shits the bed lol), I kinda like the AJ's filter better too......A SEM filter isn't self resonant either but it's still one of the best filters probably ever. I have little use for self-resonance. I'll go with the AJ for my taste.
I love the alpha/mks 50 for its pure versatility. Thou the filters on the ju 6xx series far better. Why roland went for the diffrent filter for the alphas is beyond me. Having said that the variable chorus on the alpha is a winner for me :-). Apart from all that wikid wikid comparison vid and that High Pass wave distortion thingy was very intresting and handy to know 👍👍👍
It’s just a single square wave, low to very low cutoff freq, a fair bit of filter envelope with a shortish decay and no sustain, with a little amplitude and filter release. Add a little chorus and you’re done. No sub, no sawtooth, no PWM. It’s a really simple sound to reproduce, and there’s a couple of RUclips vids showing it on other synths I think.
Really cool video. IMO, you get a Juno 106 because it's fun as hell to play. If all you care about are replicating some sounds, then just get an Alpha or even a decent VST / sample library. There are so many ways to get close to the sound of a Juno 106. However, I haven't found anything that is close to as fun as playing the real thing. I've thought about selling my Juno several times. I don't have a good place to store it, dealing with a stereo instrument is always a headache, and no velocity sensitivity so it can't double as a useful midi controller. However, every time I play it I fall in love again and just have so much fun.
Enjoyed yer video. Alphas envelopes get flack for being slow . Not snappy enough. It can't be denied in my experience. Just means you need another synth for fast attack parts. No prob.
The Alpha's oscillators sound very good. Tonally they're very similar to the 106, except the 106 seems to have a bit more bite and fuller sound that becomes more obvious as the filter is put into the mix. The filter on the Alpha sounds great, too, but doesn't go far enough! I'm not a fan of the Alpha's interface but I think that's offset by the ability to use presets and a modern control app. To me, they sound different enough that I'd probably want the Juno 106 if I'm specifically looking for that 106 sound, or the Alpha for it's greater versatility. The Alpha can mimic the 106 to a degree but I feel like the digitally-controlled stuff sometimes loses parts of that range that you get with the fully analog stuff and that seems to be the case here. In a lot of your examples I can tell the difference between the two without looking at the screen, although even when it doesn't match it perfectly the Alpha still sounds great. The Alpha makes a strong case for itself just in the programability and the possibility for presets, so yeah, it's a great synth! You're right though, if you have other synths that can replicate that squelch, then the Alpha makes the 106 kinda irrelevant.
@@rachelar I know that, I was talking about the control interface. Knobs and sliders sound significantly different to stepped digital controls, and that's the difference that I'm hearing. The Jexus website describes it like this: "it's not the most agile analog tone... and what I mean here is obviously the different & relatively more organic sound of the Juno 6 / 60 / 106 series..." It's a bit hard to describe, but it's definitely leads to an audible difference. Personally, I'm fine with that, and I actually _prefer_ it to be that way because remaking the same synth over and over again is kinda stupid. Especially in modern times, since if you really want a Juno-106 (I personally think the Juno-60 sounds better anyway) and you don't have the money for a real one, or don't want the hassle of owning a giant, finnicky vintage synthesizer, there are plenty of modern options available that can nail that sound.
Absolutely excellent comparison. I've had my Alpha Juno 2 since the mid 90s, I learnt the hard way to hang onto it: previously I sold an SH-09 to someone who didn't look after it and for silly money (I think about £60 at the time) never again. I also have an Ensoniq ESQ-1 and I'm hanging on to that too. My Alpha Juno's contacts are a bit knackered so advice about getting that sorted would be great. Thumbs up and subbed.
Thanks, as far as the contacts on the keys I’ve always had a couple of issues. There’s a Juno 106 repair series from years ago on RUclips that shows the runner contacts on the keys - they’re similar to the alpha’s. You can gently pull them off the board and clean the dirt that gets in. I’ve also got a few that once I opened it up appear to have corroded some graphite paint the contacts touch. I’ve bought some graphite electric paint, but haven’t got round to attempting it yet. Looks like something spilt on a few of the keys damaging the board.
11:20-12:25 - you forgot to put down the sub-osc on the Juno 106 (look at its slider, it's at the maximum value) and on the Alpha the sub was not active, that's why the PWM sounded richer on the 106 than the Alpha :-) Nice comparison BTW.
Wow... nice spotting !!! Thought you’d got me there :)) 😂 But ... the sliders don’t reflect the actual position at that point. I must have reloaded my init patch and moved from there - edited out. If you look at the frequency spectrums the fundamental is the same in both around 120 Hz. If the 106 sub was on there would be an additional peak around 60. 🧐
@@StarskyCarr Looked on the oscilloscope too, instead of a nice clean rectangular PWM wave I can clearly see the sub-osc square wave being summed to the "main" osc PWM :-) Probably the DCO on the 106 is being transposed one octave higher compared to the Alpha, and the added sub-osc brings the whole sound one octave down, matching the Alpha.
Haha oh no... I’m now absolutely compelled to get them both out to double check... I’ll report back once I have ... there’s another couple of hours gone ;)
@@StarskyCarr Hey, no need to feel embarassed, apart these small details your video is actually cool and I enjoyed watching it :-) It also allowed me to have now a precise idea of how an Alpha Juno sounds, as it is a synth that I did not go into too much. And I can tell that I like it, in a couple of moments in your video I found it sounding even lushier than the Juno 106 (which I have).
Cheap tip - if you don't want to spend 300+ on a programmer for the Alpha's just get a Behringer BCR2000 which can learn sysex from the units - then you can programme them to tweak all parameters in realtime. Cost ~100 bucks or less now used.
Yes, this w as of use to me, somewhere and I reached the same conclusions ie. Sell the 106 as the chips will die. One other dual edged sword about the 106 is that when you move the sliders you can't actually initially see what setting the sound you've just called up is at, so live e. g. you might rezz your sound out of the audible range on the first note. An argument against having memories and doing the squealchy bits on a dedicated old mono..
Eh the voice chips aren’t a good reason to sell it the 106. You can easily have the coating removed or just replace the whole chip. Thats an issue of the past.
@@333jobforacowboy was sick of constantly replacing the chips. Some of us are busy with touring, recording etc and need something reliable. I did use the 106 on TV a few times tho layered with something else in case it dropped notes, but the Alpha has never ever let me down...
The Junk is more 80s, the 106 is more, er... 90s! I had the Alpha 1 but didn't really appreciate how powerful it was at the time, I just know it had started to sound very dated by 1989.
I had a Juno 60. In the end I couldn´t stand the noise floor of the chorus anymore. It´s a pain in the a** during breaks or pauses. I thought about a noise gate exclusively for the Juno but no, I sold it and never regretted it.
Hey, Mr. Carr... Did you ever tried to match the 106 chorus settings on the Alpha...? I don't have a 106 to do it myself... If you don't mind to spend a little time with them, plese give us the numbers for both settings... Thanks for your help...!!
So in your opinion who wins in bass department? Is the AJ bass identical to 106 minus the extra waveforms for AJ of course? Pads obviously shine with 106 sweet filter so no debate there.
Hi Starky, great comparison. I have a Juno 106 with the Kiwi 106 upgrade, which adds a lot of new functionality, but I have just purchased a Roland HS-80 and would like to know what editor you were using with the Alpha Juno please?
maybe higher resonance mod for alpha juno is possible. there is information that says you can get higher resonance when higher voltage cv is applied to the chip, and I see a voltage splitter in the resistor array in the path. bypassing pin2 and pin11 of the array with another resistor may work. problem is I am not rich enough to take experimenting risks. is there anybody willing to examine resistance value?
I think it’s ust an 8’ pulse wave 50% PWM with LFO 3. Cutoff around 6 with res,env LFO and kybd at 0. Long envelope with chorus at II. The settings are similar on the alpha, which you can just about see on the iPad. 😀
Thanks, I don’t think so. Unless you use an editor and load an initial patch. Well worth doing if you’ve got one. And if not, it’s well worth checking out some of the editors.
Hi, great video thanks! just a question: to use the app controller for alpha Juno, needs to connect through a computer? I mean, how Alpha juno does it connect with the ipad? thanks
The iPad is connected to the computer via wireless midi and the Juno is connected via cable to the computer. I use a Mac and setting up a wireless midi channel is pretty straightforward, it shouldn’t be too difficult on the pc. I then use a midi patchbay app (called MIDI patchbay) to route the wireless channel to the Juno output. It sounds quite complicated but is really easy once you go through the steps. If you’ve a MIDI cable for the iPad it’s just as easy.
@@StarskyCarr So is not plug&play... bit tricky. Do you know if roland (or other brand) had ever made an hardware to control parameter in Juno 2? I would like to join together the reasonable size of the Juno2 with the easy control faders of the J106
It’s a good price, so you could sell it on for at least that if it’s not for you :) I love my alpha, don’t use it extensively any more (new toys always calling!!), but really enjoy it when i do.
I was thinking of comparing the 106 to the Prophet 6 (both 24dB LPF) but not sure what the angle would be... they're both so different in spec and cost. against the DM12 would be interesting - if I had one.
How Starsky Carr has less than 50k subscribers... is astonishing! This guy makes some of the best synth videos on RUclips! So if you have'nt liked and subbed, please do so now!
Very kind of you. Happy Christmas 🎄
I mean he has 55K but, okay
He had less than 55 thousand a year ago.
Absolutely beautiful, I'm always glad to see people enjoying an Alpha Juno in non-Hoover-related ways, it can do so much more than that!
12:46 That watery smooth lfo modulation is so nice and "retro electro-psychedelic" sounding. Big fan of that sound, the 106 just has so much character.
Thank you for this interesting video!
I’ve never regretted my Alpha; first synth I ever got and it’s served me faithfully. Super reliable once you get it cleaned!
Ditto
thanks for this video mate. Money is tight so I am not in the market for a 106 but have been wondering if the Alpha was the sleeper bargain people said it was and this video definitely proved it was.
Excellent comparison. I agree with the conditions. I don't use self oscillating filters anyway. I just bought an Alpha Juno 1 last week coincidentally, and I'm very happy with it.
i love juno synth, your videos are so helpful everyone who wants one must watch starsky carr baby
"Fits in a guitar case." You sir, are a wizard and I thank ye.
only problem is that with a guitar case the handle is offset from the centre for balance.. teenage me carrying it for miles ended up with one particularly strong wrist!! thats what I'm putting it down to anyway.
The thing about 106's filter is that, to my ears, it tends to give 106 a more open overall sound, probably because of the high frequencies and harmonics the filter brings to the table. However, 106 has the very common problem with the voice chips, and that is an expensive maintenance. So in 2019, I'd say 106 has become more of a collector's item than a workhorse for a musician looking for those sounds. The better option if you just want the hardware, the sound palette, and don't have collector's money is, it seems clear now, an Alpha.
Voice chips aren't really an issue on the Juno, see my original comment for more info.
Everyone should've already bought their Junos by now anyway, if somebody hasn't got a Juno or several by now then there's not point even considering it. Its just standard part of arsenal and the voice chips can just be soaked in acetone to remove the gunk that create the problems.. Replacement "cloned" chips will never be the same, people who fall for that don't have common sense / ears.
Hey Starsky, I knew you were awesome, but I didn’t know you were this awesome. Use the aj2 live all the time. Never one issue. I’ll say it: best juno. Period.
Sold my Juno 106 and kept the Alpha + the Jx3p in my studio. Your great video made my decision valid :)
Agree 99%
Another really great thing about the Alpha is the size, especially the Alpha 1 which is smaller than the 2. It does look a bit like a home keyboard to me, but it sounds soooo good I don't care!
I wouldn't mind the smaller size of the -1 except that the -1 doesn't have a velocity sensitive keyboard whle the -2 does, tho it will respond to velocity and aftertouch received via MIDI.
The HS10 version IS a home keyboard! Lol😂
I totally agree with your conclusion.
This is a GREAT comparison video! you've put such a big effort on it... I've owned a J106 and I replaced it by a J60, which I love... either way, I still miss the J106 sub pads and was wondering to have one back again. By looking at your video, I'll definitely go for an Alpha Juno 2. I believe it will the best teammate for the J60. Thank you!!
I own a 106, and have 60 envy. It's just even harder to justify the $2k+ the 60's sell for these days. But if I had a 60, I understand pairing it with an alpha.
I think a 60/Alpha pairing would be perfect, or a 106/Alpha pairing. I myself preferred the Alpha so much I sold my 106!
I have an AJ-1, I leave it on a shelf on the wall, use it as a module, controlling from BCR2000 and external fully expressive keyboard. So far, perfect for me, plus: the Chorus is crystal clear, no noise at all. Amazing! I had an AJ-2 before with a very hissy chorus, it really waters down the experience. A 106 is coming by and this video is perfect for that situation. I might be keeping only the Alpha after all, no room for an extra big keyboard, especially considering 106's voice chips situation. I'm not sure about the conditions of this 106 I'm about to get. But, of course things may change once the synth is in my hands...
Same as me - but I use the CTRLR editor or my virus to control it. I've room for both, but maybe one will go... only to be replace by another!!!
✨Hooooover✨ haha, that with the sound gave me a good laugh. Really nice comparison as usual.
I bought my Juno 1 (keyboard not sensitive, but the sounds are) new in 1987 I guess and still have it but seldom used it nowadays. It's as brand new with everything working. Nice to stumble upon this video giving me inspiration. As I'm mostly playing guitar it is located at its stand covered with a cloth to keep the dust away. Entertaining video, thanks!
Double glad I bought one at a pawn shop for $250. Love the iPG app as well!
You made me buy A2J, it needs some small repairs, cant wait to use it. :)
Chord Memory FTW! 😂 - Excellent video again Starsky!
That chord memory was such a revelation - instant house music!
@@StarskyCarr Also saves up a sampler if it only serves that one purpose (the chord)! 😍
I get the impression from looking at the chip complements in the various Roland synths (found a "this synth has this oscillator and this filter" chart somewhere) that the aJuno was essentially a JX8p with just one oscillator.
Maybe similar parts but I think they sound pretty different. Maybe the values are calibrated differently internally or something. I've owned a JX-8P, Juno 106 and still have an Alpha Juno 1.
Fantastically of use. Thank you.
I have a Juno 2 I bought new back then. Been working on restoring it. Almost done but the aftertouch is shot (high resistance if I remember correctly) and from what I've seen it's a scary procedure. I don't relish taking out all the keys, for starters. I had a friend with the 106 and the programmer with sliders which was amazing. I got the Juno Ctrl last year and I love it. Don't really think much about memory patches at all anymore - just grab the knobs.
Now that doesn't make any sense. It must have been a JX-3P with a PG-200 controller. It was a few years before I bought my alpha so that would be about right.
My after touch has never worked... when I first got it I wondered what the A meant in the mod options! No idea what needs to be replaced? But I’ve had the Keybed out to fix other bugs and need to use graphite paint to replace some eroded parts where I spilt Guinness years ago.
@@StarskyCarr The procedure I've seen is pretty intimidating: supersynthprojects.com/roland-superjx-maintenance/jx10-aftertouch/
It was kind of neat when it was new and worked but I've never felt I needed it. I could see how some of these highly expressive keyboard-like things - Rolli Seabord would be cool.
Oh and here's a tip from experience: When replacing the LCD, those screws look like they could use some locktite. Not a terrible idea. It is a terrible idea to let the locktite leak into your brand new $5 display drop-shipped from China.
I’m a giant fan of 106 the interface is next level there so dreamy sounding , and I really feel the Alpha can be just as dreamy.
Had both synths and came to exactly the same conclusions years ago, so I sold the 106. No point in having two synths that sound so similar, and the Alpha easily wins out on flexibility and reliability. And hoovers.
Definitely hoovers.
@ghost mall Did you get mad over this?
@ghost mall nah just your opinion actually
I never realized how close the AJ could sound to the 106, besides the filters of course. I loved the AJ2, as it is a great first analog poly these days. Not too expensive and can sound lovely, and like the 106, can make great basses.
Personally, I always found the expanded saw waveforms quite useful, just for something different. The 106 sounds great, but it can get a tad boring at times, if you like sound design.
I made a lot of good music with the AJ2 and JX-3P, another Roland that can sound very close to a Juno at times, but with a sort of bad interface.
Really wish Roland would make a sort of Juno legacy edition. A best of Roland DCO poly, with all of the features of the Juno series in one. I’d buy it!
Yeah, my impression after playing a Juno 6 in a shop in 2004 or so, it's a nice simple sound with a nice arpeggiator, but a tad samey after a while...probably why people went all digital in the 80s
Love my MKS-50, which I've had since the 80s new. So. Many. Good. Sounds.
Great video, some people say, alphajuno is difficult to program. It maybe bit time consuming because of only 1 rotary dial, however it is such a great small package filled with goodies, such joy to play and experiment with, cheers :)
Amazing work put into this comparision. Honestly im not fan of screaming self oscilating filter sounds and kinda like the one on alphas more, its smooooooooooth sounding in pads / strings. :) Anyways this vid also confirms that with alpha I dont need 106 for my setup at all. THanks and all the best.
Nice one. Thanks for noticing the effort!!! I had my alpha first and I’ve now realised I don’t really see much benefit from owning the 106 as well. A nice to have... 👍
Great comparison, as usual. There were a lot of sounds there where I actually preferred the Alpha - mostly in ~ the second half of your vid. Both have some great sounds ... Argh, GAS! Lol ... Cheers! Be well - K
Thanks, glad you liked it.. sorry for aggravating the GAS
diggin the fact that after all this time,from when S C did this vid, and from when the 106/@juno came out,they are still relevant to todays music,can still fit right in with any genre and are thoroughly enjoyed by players and player/techs like myself of all ages.
This is such a great vid and one I’ve watched many times! Part of matching sounds is dialing in the right chorus rate. I’ve measured and documented the chorus rate for all values from 0 to 127 on the Alpha Juno. I’ve also measured the chorus rates of all the Roland synths that I own and also the plug outs, so you can see which parameter value for the chorus rate will get you closest to whatever synth you’re aspiring to emulate. There is a chorus comparison video on my channel if anyone wants to check it out. There’s a link to my documented findings in the description as well.
Did you try that on multiple similar synths? Because there are discrepancies in gear from this time.
@@theothertonydutch I only measured the ones that I personally own. Would be interesting to see what the differences are if others want to measure theirs to compare. It’s super easy with the JX-3p and Juno-6/60 just because the chorus is so noisy. The peaks of the chorus LFO cycles jump out in the audio waveform. So just turn it on, turn on the chorus, record it for a few seconds without pressing any keys, then stop the recording and normalize or increase the gain of the recorded sample. Then measure the time between the peaks.
The variable chorus of the Alpha Juno is much more valuable than the higher resonance of the 106 IMO. There are a lot of analog mono synths on the market that can do that sound.
It would be interesting to compare the Alpha Juno to the Novation Peak, since they both use the fairly unusual numerically controlled oscillators with analog filters.
I sold the Peak and dont regret it at all. I sold a mks50 and regret it so much...
What an a amazing video. Watched this 5 times. Subscribed.
Wow, thanks
this is a very complete comparison. The Alpha Juno takes the prize for me. I can do without the self oscillating filter. The Alpha ticks all the typical Roland sound boxes otherwise. I used to have a Juno6 back in the early 80ies and since I hated it back then I never cared for it's successors either ( friend had them). I wanted the fat US sound so I went with Ensoniq ESQ1 back then . Now I can see that a typical Roland fits in very nicely in my synth Pallete
Brilliant review.
Awesome and thanks for the video, ended up getting a alpha Juno
I hope you like it!
I have two Juno 106 synths (well, one is a 106 and one is there HS-60 version) and for some crazy reason, I want an Alpha Juno as well... There's something about them that I just really enjoy. I think maybe it's the inability to tinker on the fly allows for me to just enjoy the sound as is. If I can find a super cheap one, just might have to pick one up and maybe sell one of my 106s... Great video!
Not really crazy cause the alpha does around 80% of what 106 can for all the edgier mono res filter stuff i have an ms-20 and slim phatty there is an advantage on poly res filter sweeps etc.
You can actually do quite a bit of tinkering with the front panel ‘macro’ settings and the alpha wheel combined with the presets.
great video! i think i might finally graduate from the JU-06 to the Alpha 2
Thank you so much for this, I'm so picking it up. Saw it on craigslist for $300, hopefully I get it
Wow ... for that price it’s a no brainer
@@StarskyCarr I ended up getting it and I'm absolutely in love. Thank you for making this video, I didn't realize it was nearly identical to a juno 106. I'm going to try and create my own midi controller to make it control similarly to a 106
I completely agree with your conclusions. Nothing wrong with the 106, but the AJ2 is a bargain and more reliable. I have that iPad app and I love the way the parameters change with the patch. Just brilliant.
Used to be a bargain. Maybe not so much after this video... ;-)
Im selling mine JU-2 nowdays and for cheap ;-). Really need to clean up some space. :) (keeping JU-1, so I wont loss that amazing sound so no worries)
DestroyER82 you ll lose the after touch tho, personally the feel of the juno 2 makes it my master keybd
@@rachelar Yea, agree that the feel is really nice. But with having other synths with aftertouch and midi out it isnt much issue (incl. JX8P with pretty similair keys).
@Ran, how do you connect the ipad to the synth?
Great video, perfect lockdown viewing.
It seems like it should be possible to mod the Alpha's filter to allow for that extra resonance that's in the 106. Most ICs will have these as external components. Might be worth looking into :)
I think someone said it wasn’t possible for whatever reason. I remember taking a look a few years back. Worth another investigation!
@@StarskyCarr Very interesting. Just my observations as an EE. I'm actually looking into getting an Alpha for my setup. If I do, I'll have to take a look at the service manual or something
@@StarskyCarr check out the new Kiwi-2 mod
If you can get an alpha juno 2, hold onto it. Fantastic synth and probably the best keybed I've ever used on a synth, so it makes an amazing master controller in addition to sounding good.
The velocity on the Alpha Juno keys doesn't go all the way up. That's a problem for some external patches, if you are using it as a master controller. You can try hitting the keys hard, but even so it's hard to reach full velocity.
Great Job. Thanx from Brazil.
this is a great comparison and a great demo
AJs seven stage envelope,slow LFO sweep and multiple Pulse.Sawtooth and Sub options win it for me.
Awesome video! Just picked up a Juno 2 from a pawn shop and this video is super helpful.
Have you ever tried the chord memory for an octave hack instead of a chord
say like 1c above and perhaps 1c an octave higher for 3-note chords or perhaps
3 octave C's for lead basses or leads etc etc doing that would almost get past
the single oscillator you could do fifths as well for 3 note's
Would you mind sharing the settings you are using for the sawtooth sound at 5:00 for the Alpha Juno? That's such a sick sound.
It just a raw sawtooth with filters fully open, no env on the filter. No Pulse, sub or noise or chorus. And a short env release time. The raw sound is really nice - glad you noticed :)
Starting to look at the Alpha but they've become quite expensive now as well
I just bought one for $550, sans after touch. But personally I don't care about after touch.
Yeah I just bought the Alpha 1 for $500! It might needa bit of TLC, but cosmetic condition is excellent and I'm very happy with the deal!
Alpha juno was my first and is fantastic
Amazing video
Got recently ALJ2, still need to learn to program it properly, so far i like it, but i think it sound bit thiner then Juno 106. Sounds are quite limited in terms of different sound(to me a lot of presets sounds prety much like variation of the same sound), but what it do, it do it great in its unique way.
You missed a controller -- the Novation ReMOTE series of controllers can program the Alpha Junos.
hi ya, excellent , in-depth video. I ove your vids. Having seen the Juno chorus comparison here i looked up the TC - electronic juno pedal and i'm not convinced. I wondered if you would do a vid on the pedal using your juno or any other synths for that matter. There are videos online (non scouser haha) but it doesent seem to have the same effect at all of the junos you played here. It may be because they are putting new stereo synths like the polyend and rev 2 's into the tc- electronic juno pedal mono signal which then turns it back into stereo? I dont know. Just wondered what your take on it was. :)
I owned both and I prefer the 106. RUclips videos can be deceiving (just look at people talking about how great the Jupiter Xm sounds and then play it yourself compared to a Juno or Ob6, etc.). The alpha will make you smile, but the 106 will make you cry. There's a reason it's still used in studios across genres to this day. I've never enjoyed the hoover or chord memory sounds and I prefer the 106's filter, both in terms of resonance and just general sweeps, etc. The Alpha Juno 2 is admittedly the better value, but the heart wants what it wants. I go to my juno for flawless pads, bells, plucks, and basses. I'd love to see a comparison of the Alpha Juno, the 106 and the 60, as the 60 is now $2000+ used. Juno Battle Royale, make it happen.
Flawless you say? My 106 had plenty flaws, dropping notes, oscillators etc which made it good to sample but useless in a live setting unless layered with..... You guessed it.. An Alpha Juno!
great video :) not ever selling my AJ2 ! :D
I don't suppose you saved the patch created at @12:35 ? Or any quick pointers on how to get there? ;) Thanks!
It sounds like PWM - with quite a fast PWM rate plus a thin pulse on sub. no sawtooth, filter open.
@@StarskyCarr Got close enough today, thank you :)
Great video. Thanks for putting in the time.
nice video, just bought a juno 2 after seeing this. I already have a JX8P and 3p but as prices seem to be rising, Though I would take a punt
I should have bought a load of cheap ones before publishing this!
Thank you very much.. got to get that ipg app now
SOOOO helpful! Thank you!
Great video mate, cheers.
I kind of view the self-resonant squaling as when the filter shits the bed. Plenty of sweep patches in the Alpha that sound REALLY great(it's a great sounding filter compared to the 106 up until the 106's shits the bed lol), I kinda like the AJ's filter better too......A SEM filter isn't self resonant either but it's still one of the best filters probably ever. I have little use for self-resonance. I'll go with the AJ for my taste.
106 shits the bed lol, or my cats leave the room before their ears bleed. Cruelty to animals
i prefer the alpha because its less cliche and has a more rubbery bouncy sound
Yeah I love the rubbery filter
it's the 'mentasm' sound if i'm not mistaking, hoover is more of a general vacuum cleaner sound, hence it's name
the alpha sounds cleaner and more controlled (less 'analog'? tho I know both are analog/dco/vcf) but it seems like both have their place
I love the alpha/mks 50 for its pure versatility. Thou the filters on the ju 6xx series far better. Why roland went for the diffrent filter for the alphas is beyond me. Having said that the variable chorus on the alpha is a winner for me :-).
Apart from all that wikid wikid comparison vid and that High Pass wave distortion thingy was very intresting and handy to know 👍👍👍
Excellent vid! Which oscilloscope prog did you use?
Thanks. It’s Meldaproductions and it’s part of their free plugins collection.
I know the Mr fingers “can you feel it” bass was created on the Juno 60or106? But how can you create that sound on the alpha juno2?
It’s just a single square wave, low to very low cutoff freq, a fair bit of filter envelope with a shortish decay and no sustain, with a little amplitude and filter release. Add a little chorus and you’re done. No sub, no sawtooth, no PWM. It’s a really simple sound to reproduce, and there’s a couple of RUclips vids showing it on other synths I think.
Really cool video. IMO, you get a Juno 106 because it's fun as hell to play. If all you care about are replicating some sounds, then just get an Alpha or even a decent VST / sample library. There are so many ways to get close to the sound of a Juno 106. However, I haven't found anything that is close to as fun as playing the real thing.
I've thought about selling my Juno several times. I don't have a good place to store it, dealing with a stereo instrument is always a headache, and no velocity sensitivity so it can't double as a useful midi controller. However, every time I play it I fall in love again and just have so much fun.
Enjoyed yer video. Alphas envelopes get flack for being slow . Not snappy enough. It can't be denied in my experience. Just means you need another synth for fast attack parts. No prob.
The Alpha's oscillators sound very good. Tonally they're very similar to the 106, except the 106 seems to have a bit more bite and fuller sound that becomes more obvious as the filter is put into the mix. The filter on the Alpha sounds great, too, but doesn't go far enough! I'm not a fan of the Alpha's interface but I think that's offset by the ability to use presets and a modern control app.
To me, they sound different enough that I'd probably want the Juno 106 if I'm specifically looking for that 106 sound, or the Alpha for it's greater versatility. The Alpha can mimic the 106 to a degree but I feel like the digitally-controlled stuff sometimes loses parts of that range that you get with the fully analog stuff and that seems to be the case here. In a lot of your examples I can tell the difference between the two without looking at the screen, although even when it doesn't match it perfectly the Alpha still sounds great. The Alpha makes a strong case for itself just in the programability and the possibility for presets, so yeah, it's a great synth!
You're right though, if you have other synths that can replicate that squelch, then the Alpha makes the 106 kinda irrelevant.
Huh, the 106 also has Digital controlled oscillators. Only the filter is significantly different
@@rachelar I know that, I was talking about the control interface. Knobs and sliders sound significantly different to stepped digital controls, and that's the difference that I'm hearing.
The Jexus website describes it like this:
"it's not the most agile analog tone... and what I mean here is obviously the different & relatively more organic sound of the Juno 6 / 60 / 106 series..."
It's a bit hard to describe, but it's definitely leads to an audible difference. Personally, I'm fine with that, and I actually _prefer_ it to be that way because remaking the same synth over and over again is kinda stupid. Especially in modern times, since if you really want a Juno-106 (I personally think the Juno-60 sounds better anyway) and you don't have the money for a real one, or don't want the hassle of owning a giant, finnicky vintage synthesizer, there are plenty of modern options available that can nail that sound.
Absolutely excellent comparison. I've had my Alpha Juno 2 since the mid 90s, I learnt the hard way to hang onto it: previously I sold an SH-09 to someone who didn't look after it and for silly money (I think about £60 at the time) never again. I also have an Ensoniq ESQ-1 and I'm hanging on to that too. My Alpha Juno's contacts are a bit knackered so advice about getting that sorted would be great.
Thumbs up and subbed.
Thanks, as far as the contacts on the keys I’ve always had a couple of issues. There’s a Juno 106 repair series from years ago on RUclips that shows the runner contacts on the keys - they’re similar to the alpha’s. You can gently pull them off the board and clean the dirt that gets in. I’ve also got a few that once I opened it up appear to have corroded some graphite paint the contacts touch. I’ve bought some graphite electric paint, but haven’t got round to attempting it yet. Looks like something spilt on a few of the keys damaging the board.
11:20-12:25 - you forgot to put down the sub-osc on the Juno 106 (look at its slider, it's at the maximum value) and on the Alpha the sub was not active, that's why the PWM sounded richer on the 106 than the Alpha :-)
Nice comparison BTW.
Wow... nice spotting !!! Thought you’d got me there :)) 😂 But ... the sliders don’t reflect the actual position at that point. I must have reloaded my init patch and moved from there - edited out. If you look at the frequency spectrums the fundamental is the same in both around 120 Hz. If the 106 sub was on there would be an additional peak around 60. 🧐
@@StarskyCarr Looked on the oscilloscope too, instead of a nice clean rectangular PWM wave I can clearly see the sub-osc square wave being summed to the "main" osc PWM :-)
Probably the DCO on the 106 is being transposed one octave higher compared to the Alpha, and the added sub-osc brings the whole sound one octave down, matching the Alpha.
Haha oh no... I’m now absolutely compelled to get them both out to double check... I’ll report back once I have ... there’s another couple of hours gone ;)
Turns out you're correct!! Oh no how embarrassing.. and what a spot :) It's good to see folks actually watching in detail.
@@StarskyCarr Hey, no need to feel embarassed, apart these small details your video is actually cool and I enjoyed watching it :-)
It also allowed me to have now a precise idea of how an Alpha Juno sounds, as it is a synth that I did not go into too much. And I can tell that I like it, in a couple of moments in your video I found it sounding even lushier than the Juno 106 (which I have).
Cheap tip - if you don't want to spend 300+ on a programmer for the Alpha's just get a Behringer BCR2000 which can learn sysex from the units - then you can programme them to tweak all parameters in realtime. Cost ~100 bucks or less now used.
Really good shoot-out.
I had an Alpha Juno 1 years ago.
Ended up selling it.
I replaced it with the Redominator VST.
Yes, this w as of use to me, somewhere and I reached the same conclusions ie. Sell the 106 as the chips will die. One other dual edged sword about the 106 is that when you move the sliders you can't actually initially see what setting the sound you've just called up is at, so live e. g. you might rezz your sound out of the audible range on the first note. An argument against having memories and doing the squealchy bits on a dedicated old mono..
Or just strip the coating from your chips and they'll last as long as an Alpha.
Eh the voice chips aren’t a good reason to sell it the 106. You can easily have the coating removed or just replace the whole chip. Thats an issue of the past.
@@333jobforacowboy was sick of constantly replacing the chips. Some of us are busy with touring, recording etc and need something reliable. I did use the 106 on TV a few times tho layered with something else in case it dropped notes, but the Alpha has never ever let me down...
The Junk is more 80s, the 106 is more, er... 90s! I had the Alpha 1 but didn't really appreciate how powerful it was at the time, I just know it had started to sound very dated by 1989.
I want one . There's a Mac or iPad controller for it from Coffeeshopped patch base. I'll be getting their Proteus1 editor iPad . They're 29 each
I had a Juno 60. In the end I couldn´t stand the noise floor of the chorus anymore. It´s a pain in the a** during breaks or pauses. I thought about a noise gate exclusively for the Juno but no, I sold it and never regretted it.
Hey, Mr. Carr... Did you ever tried to match the 106 chorus settings on the Alpha...?
I don't have a 106 to do it myself...
If you don't mind to spend a little time with them, plese give us the numbers for both settings...
Thanks for your help...!!
Even industrial muzak has become war-like ... a production at best.
So in your opinion who wins in bass department? Is the AJ bass identical to 106 minus the extra waveforms for AJ of course? Pads obviously shine with 106 sweet filter so no debate there.
Hi Starky, great comparison. I have a Juno 106 with the Kiwi 106 upgrade, which adds a lot of new functionality, but I have just purchased a Roland HS-80 and would like to know what editor you were using with the Alpha Juno please?
Can anyone identify the scope software being used?
maybe higher resonance mod for alpha juno is possible.
there is information that says you can get higher resonance when higher voltage cv is applied to the chip, and I see a voltage splitter in the resistor array in the path.
bypassing pin2 and pin11 of the array with another resistor may work.
problem is I am not rich enough to take experimenting risks.
is there anybody willing to examine resistance value?
People have said it sounds awful when the resonance is pushed, so maybe thats why it's limited.
SAW is for Sawtooth not for Stock, Achin' and Watereddown thank you very much!
Great video Brilliant Bravo 👏
Please review and compare TAL-U-NO-LX. +we would love some presets to download for it! THANKS cool channel!
I’ve thought about looking at it compared to the 106, but it’s based on the 60 so I’d likely get annihilated!! May do it anyway and take cover!
Need an Alfa Juno 2 boutique NOW
Yep.. I’d be first in:)
@Roland are you listening?
How did you create that “gorgeous pad” on the 106?
I think it’s ust an 8’ pulse wave 50% PWM with LFO 3. Cutoff around 6 with res,env LFO and kybd at 0. Long envelope with chorus at II. The settings are similar on the alpha, which you can just about see on the iPad. 😀
it really is gorgeous.. and alpha will never get there
you didn't show the unison on the 106, although i am a alpha juno fan :-)
Hey love your video. I just wonder if there is any possible way to initialize the patch on Alpha Juno?
Thanks, I don’t think so. Unless you use an editor and load an initial patch. Well worth doing if you’ve got one. And if not, it’s well worth checking out some of the editors.
Hi, great video thanks! just a question: to use the app controller for alpha Juno, needs to connect through a computer? I mean, how Alpha juno does it connect with the ipad? thanks
The iPad is connected to the computer via wireless midi and the Juno is connected via cable to the computer. I use a Mac and setting up a wireless midi channel is pretty straightforward, it shouldn’t be too difficult on the pc. I then use a midi patchbay app (called MIDI patchbay) to route the wireless channel to the Juno output.
It sounds quite complicated but is really easy once you go through the steps.
If you’ve a MIDI cable for the iPad it’s just as easy.
@@StarskyCarr So is not plug&play... bit tricky. Do you know if roland (or other brand) had ever made an hardware to control parameter in Juno 2? I would like to join together the reasonable size of the Juno2 with the easy control faders of the J106
Great comparision - Thank you ! Which software you are using for the Spectrum analyzer ? looks cool and functional.
Thanks. It’s just the channel EQ in logic. Ableton has something similar.
@@StarskyCarr oh thank you. will check it out.
Please, does the actual Juno DS have some of these sounds ?
It should be able to get very close. These are all pretty simple sounds so there’s nothing in here that’s not achievable functionally.
I could grab alpha juno at seemingly nice price (500gbp) with programmer... you have seen it all, would you pick it up?
It’s a good price, so you could sell it on for at least that if it’s not for you :) I love my alpha, don’t use it extensively any more (new toys always calling!!), but really enjoy it when i do.
What would a comparison of the OB-6 and the Juno 106 sound like ?
I was thinking of comparing the 106 to the Prophet 6 (both 24dB LPF) but not sure what the angle would be... they're both so different in spec and cost. against the DM12 would be interesting - if I had one.
Starsky Carr I’d ideally compare the choruses differently
Geez I don't need a PG-300, what is that app Starsky?
I think thats the ipg800 - but there are loads of options,