He said that vegans need to come to terms with the fact that they're destroying habitats by switching to soy and other similar products. 70% of the world's soy gets used in animal feed.
Never fails to amuse me how wrong Lewis always is just to be a contrarian. Sips was right; the game is an expansion of Mike Pondsmith's pen-and-paper tabletop
I love pyrion he's always the most sane and grounded of the three but the crazy opinions of Lewis and sips always brings out the funniest bits of him just confused and frustrated
Having watched every episode of this podcast so far I never thought I would be siding with pyrion over sips when talking about vegetarianism, but here we are
@@Shosty yea, i love this podcast and the guys are great, but especially in the last few episodes, Sips has just said one outrageous thing after another. Starting with the one where he and Lewis both said they didn't want guests to go to the loo when visiting. The man has no idea what he's talking about most of the time, and has some genuinely weird opinions that he thinks are normal. Like how he hates microwaves.
@@TykusBalrog I've said it for a long time but he is just extremely sheltered, this is a guy who was, in his own words, handed a job and since then he has barely left his room. He is a very toxic guy and you can see that alot in his streams, again this is a man who would constantly berate people for playing games all the time and say the only reason he isn't as god as them is because they play games all day, when his job is literally playing games all day.
Sips' point on the lab grown meat might be the stupidest thing ever said on the podcast which is fucking remarkable considering Lewis is also on this podcast.
I feel like one reason Pyrion likes having sips around is to have someone who's younger yet embraces being brazenly old-man-like and boomerly, so he can plus one sips' opinions while still maintaining a young and hip position.
After about a year and a half of listening to the triforce podcast, this is the first time im actually up to date with them. Happy I made it this far, but sad I cant binge them like I used to. Keep up the great work lads.
15:15 is very reason I don’t really play story driven games either. I love progressing and “farming” aspect. Guess this is why I’m deep into mmo-rpg/strategy/sandbox games.
By Sips' logic, mass produce vegan food would be as damaging to the planet as mass producing meat. If the ultimate goal of veganism is to reduce harm to the planet, why bother in the first place? Sips' thinking is so backwards and infuriating, Pyrion honestly sells the idea of veganism better than the others.
There's a big difference between saying that having children is morally terrible, and saying that it's one of the worst things you can do for the environment. I think Lewis was saying the latter, and he's correct. For example, Sips was talking about how bad mass production is always going to be. The fewer consumers you have, the less production is required. It takes a lot of resources to sustain an entire human throughout a typical life span. You'll never make up for all that by growing your own vegetables and recycling. That doesn't mean that having children can't be justified, by any means. Pyrion is also right that, from a biological standpoint, the only "purpose" for life is reproduction. There are lots of reasons for having children. Everyone has to decide how much they're willing to give up for the environment. And let's be honest, nothing done on an individual level is going to fix things, anyway. It's great to do what you can. I still carefully sort my recycling, try to reduce waste, etc. But it'll take serious change from large corporations to really make a meaningful improvement.
To me saying that having children is one of the worst things you can do for the environment, while correct, is kinda like saying that humans being on the planet is one of the worst things they can do for the environment. This is also absolutely true, but it's kinda missing the point.
@UCsTfZOidTEIZih58Qi2-T0g Well any human in 1810 had less environmental impact, so I don't see how that relates to having children specifically. The Earth as a whole is overpopulated yes, but the problem isn't so much the absolute amount of people everywhere but the areas where the population is increasing, especially since those areas tend to also be places where industrialization and energy use is increasing as well. I (and probably you too) live in a developed country where the population is either stagnant or shrinking, so having children to maintain the current level or not letting it drop too fast isn't so bad, since being developed we're in a position to reduce our environmental impact through other means. Shrinking population will only lead to societal problems that hurt the ability to reduce our environmental impact. Instead of not having children, the solution should be for the developed countries to maintain themselves so they can figure out the technology required to fix the immediate threats of climate change. Then the developing countries can industrialize and grow their energy demand in an environmentally friendly way, and as education level and quality of life increases for them, their population growth will also stop. THEN after the global population stagnates at 10-12 billion or whatever the current projections are, humanity can start thinking about where the population should eventually be dropped to. EDIT: I think the person deleted the message as I was typing this reply, but this took a minute so I'll just leave it here I guess lol
Yeah I didn't think lewis was wrong on the child thing. You see a trend with "western" and "developed" countries having populations which produce less children, so that has its "positives" and "negatives" along with it.
@@joshnewell714 I suppose that one of the "positives" of the people who live in developed countries, is that they tend to produce less children so that means their lifestyle isn't being multiplied/added on. Yet, the "negative" of people who live in developed countries/live in an industrial or post-industrial lifestyle is that they, like you say, have a larger carbon footprint.
Here is the problem with a lot of the "Idea of eating something that tastes like meat stomach, churning even if it is not meat". I wish Sips and Lewis saw this because I've had this conversation with diehard almost militant vegans. Imagine a world in which Humans never ate an animal, never killed an animal, or ate/drank any biproduct of an animal. Would that stop the Japanese Tube Chicken from being invented? I don't think so. They may very well still assemble the proteins in a sequence that makes Tube Chicken and say "OMG We've invented a new tasting food!" It now becomes a new food experience for everyone on the planet. There is a sea weed that tastes like bacon when you cook it, but some vegans really dislike that because it reminds them of real bacon. To me it's ridiculous for any vegan or vegetarian to dismiss these types of food, lab grown or not. Base simply on the fact it tastes like something an animal would produce. Because in the world were no animals were ever harmed, they'd be eating these foods just because it's "something different/new experience". I mean we cook veggies in different ways to produce different tastes and textures. Denying yourself a taste just because it reminds you of something that comes from an animal is denying yourself an experience.
I agree with you to a certain degree, at least to the extent that there shouldn't be a moral dilemma simply by proxy. However, you're ignoring the fact that vegans have a lot of emotions attached to the concept of eating meat, and it will take a lot of time to rewire your brain to recognize that the emotions don't have to apply here. Also, there's a lot of scientific evidence that your gut biome, which undergoes changes when you change your diet, has an actual effect on what kind of foods you want to eat. So vegans or vegetarians who haven't eaten meat for a long time have developed a gut biome that can't handle animal products very well, thereby reducing your desire to eat them. What I'm saying is, it's not simply a matter of principles, your body and brain are telling you that something that tastes like meat is not something you're supposed to be eating. I've been a vegetarian for around 10 years now, and while I completely support lab grown meat, I personally don't find the idea very appealing. Not because I have something against it, but because I just don't feel the need.
I can accept that body/brain connection because I do know this to be true. I would think that the end goal of not consuming animals at all would be more the focus by advocating for these products and not putting them down. In this case, if Vegans simply didn't say anything bad or derogatory about these products it would be better for the end goal of "no animal products" than what I see online in many Vegan/Vegetarian forums and groups (I subscribe for recipes lol). And there are a LOT of negative comments about any product that is designed to replace animal meat. Yet, products that are designed to replaced animal textiles (leather for example) oh no, they're perfectly fine. So it's very much a learned almost Pavlovian response specifically toward eatable "animal alternatives". Why are textile animal replacements OK, but Food replacements not? That is why I actively respond to vegans posting negative comments about meat tasting plant-based foods. There needs to be a re-alignment of thinking for Vegans, toward advocating these products. Not finding every reason they can think of to put them down.
@@SencneS Oh yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think it should be enough to just say "these products are not for me" and move on with your plant-based alternatives. Lab meat would be a win-win for everyone, because meat-eaters would get to continue eating meat and no animals would suffer. Probably better for the environment too. I haven't personally encountered vegans with weird counter-productive convictions like these, but the reaction is probably rooted in emotions. Like guilt over enjoying something that tastes like bacon, which implies that you would enjoy bacon, and the idea makes you uncomfortable. Basically cognitive dissonance. Rewiring that mindset would take time, but I agree that it would be important to get those types of vegans on the same page
I have not listened to this podcast for a while. When Pyrion shook that bottle. I knew it was. Ever since Pyrion mentioned Huel, I looked into it and have also been using it.
I like this podcast because you get to (most of the time) align your opinion with at least one of the three sides (lewis, sips, pyrion) on any topic and sometimes agree with pyrion but then disagree with him and instead agree with lewis (as an example).
he's wrong on a family scale and happiness if you would like to have children. But on the flip side not having a child or just having one, in the long run for humanity wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
I'm really shocked that Pyrion and Sips shut Lewis down so hard when he was talking about over-population. Do they really think the planet can sustain an infinite number of people?
Sips is just talking shit here lol. The future of food production is in hydroponics and lab grown meats. This _will_ reduce the impact of humanity on the planet, as you will not need to deforest huge areas in order to grow crops/rear animals. That is the _exact_ point sips was saying about veganism too, except hydroponics and vertical farming will solve this. You can't just say 'mass production sucks' as a blanket statement lol.
Thank you. Sips just has no clue what he is talking about. Even growing the stuff the plant-based meat "alternatives" (don't call it that, just give it a unique name) takes up space, destroys ecosystems, etc. IF everyone was a vegan, we would need even more space. So hydroponics and synthetiv meats is the future, 100%. It is already cheaper than grwoing animals and planting crops. I also liked Pflaxs point about the solution to the moral dilemma. Good point.
Eh, I see his point. It's kind of a no free lunch/better the devil you know argument based mostly in not really being bothered... But I do think with lab grown meat there's an element of not really solving the problem, just exchanging the problem for a different one, and we know less about the new problem than the old one. I think it's quite normal for people to become wary of that with age. The new problem is always pitched in an idealistic way but the reality rarely meets those expectations.
@@lewis6590 Yeah you’re right, can you think of what a specific new problem might be? Nobody is saying that there are any perfect solutions, that would be naive, but in order for us to protect the climate we must focus on becoming hyper efficient as a species. I think lab grown meats can help us do that.
@@lewis809 a semi-realistic problem that some people might have with that is it might go against their morals or values simply because it is lab grown.
Canonically cyberpunk 2077 is actually based off the invention of neon lights. Devs literally said “Fuck you know those neon lights that like all the shops n clubs use? Why don’t we just make a game about that”
Fellow over 30 dad here. Thats not pessimism. Thats being tired of people who make minor changes to something, like their DIET, Then complaining about problems of the world, like POLLUTION, but still ordering sh*t from Amazon OR my 2nd guess he's probably just trying not to think about his tore up kitchen floor. Thats what I would bet on.
Small changes sum up to bigger ones. Sips here is arguing a change is not worth anything unless it changes everything for the better and significantly alters the life of everyone. World changes but Sips isn't ready for it to change
1. sips we need more rimworld 2. cyberpunk is riddled with bugs I'm sure you know now. 3. Depends on the vegan who eating the vat-grown chicken. Do they do it for health reasons, cruelty reasons, or others. Just depends on the person.
From a purely mathematical point of view, Lewis is right about having children. But if you're a vegan who doesn't fly or drive, then your carbon footprint is like a fourth of average.
serious question, do they not know that cyberpunk 2077 is based on the cyberpunk ttrpg that came out in 1985 and basically was the inspiration for every cyber punk tv show and movie?
Currently they do actually have to kill chicken to make the lab grown but I would probably (as a vegan) only eat it once there wasn't direct death from it and it wasn't horribly inefficient like regular chicken/animal farming.
Cyberpunk is a continuation of a previously developed story... I don't understand how Lewis can speak so confidently about something he seems to know nothing about, I know I should be used to it but it still manages to be leave me baffled each time. also pyrion saying he's not sure where cyberpunk can go... Seriously? There is a crazy amount of lore in the cyberpunk world and it has changed a vast amount already, to play the game without atleast knowing some of it and then making that criticism is a bit stupid, it's like starting the Witcher 3 without reading any of the books and saying wow not much has really happened in this world huh.
Lewis said it couple episodes ago, but anyways: he loves to have a conversation that has two views and he doesn't mind arguing over the "worse" side so that he can hear what the other side has to say.
@@I_THE_ME yh he says he is a contrarian and will argue a side he doesn't agree with just for the sake of it, but that really isn't relevant to this. There is no worse side here, it's right and wrong, cyberpunk 2077 is a continuation of an existing world and he confidently said it isn't.
TL;DR do what you want cause a pirate is free I eat plant-based meals and I'll take a shot at answering Pyrion's chicken question...as with everything on the internet, do your own research. I'd eat the chicken but people are vegan for different reasons; these are the reasons I've seen for a vegan diet: -Cows take up land and fart. cow food takes up land. why not just grow human food and leave more land for wildlife habitat. (My reason, I'm like sips w/ food so I'll stop eating meat to help balance someone else eating it. Also, I understand cows are still important for modern life as we use every piece of the cow in all sorts of things, not just food) -Don't hurt animals (small animals get shredded by normal farming, killed by poisons, tough topic) -Health/Animal fats gunking up insulin receptors (eating meat could be healthier, avoiding meat might help control weight and prevent type 2 diabetes, do research and make your own choice) -Bonus: SPAAAAACE! (easier to grow plants in space than cows if we want to go somewhere far away, gonna want to do this research someday anyways for KFC in space) I'm sure there are other reasons, feel free to add them below but for the love of Yahweh don't debate or take any advice in a RUclips comment section...like...just go do something more constructive, please! I'm just doing this to provoke thought! edit: missed a big one: some people just don't like meat or don't want to eat it and that's cool too!
Lab grown meat products will quickly develop to have less of an impact on the environment than not only traditional farming but also veganism. It's so blatant that so many vegans think that veganism is some sort of super effective process that is single headedly combating environmental issues and don't realise that veganism is only marginally better for the environment on the grand scale of things.
damn, again I feel Sips and Lewis (especially Sips) arguments falls short for Pyrions. And Sips is so pessimistic, damn. His view on the future meat production is so wrong. He doesnt seem to have an understanding of the huuuge ecological impact of the meat industry we have today, and how bright the technology of lab grown meats are. Lab grown meats will lessen the ecological impact by tons.
Sips does have a point albeit not a very good or well constructed one that lab grown meat, like a lot of technologic advances, will come with its own set of problems and sure, it would more than likely lessen ecological impact but you can't say that for certain, you don't know the processes, bi-products, energy consumption or environmental impact of lab grown meat, we can assume it'd be better than rearing animals (and it probably would be) but it's all theoretical at the moment and the other problem is conversion, it's all fine and good having an alternative that is less ecologically impactful, but if it's not actually putting a dent in the meat industry then it's ultimately just adding to the problem, for example let's assume lab grown meat has half the carbon footprint of regular meat, now lets assume for every 1kg of meat they produce 500g of lab grown, if the lab grown meat only shifts sales (and eventually production) of regular meat to 80% that's a net gain in carbon footprint, that's kinda the argument Sips is going for with the whole mass production = bad kinda thing coz yeah it's all good saying lab grown meat = better for the environment but that's if everyone is on-board and it has a significant impact on the meat industry otherwise it's just another factory spewwing carbon emissions and god knows what else.
Sorry but your base assumption of the grown muscle cells having half the carbon footprint is laughably wrong as the dry farts of a herd of cows would have a greater ecological impact than a comparable amount of lab grown muscle mass. As the cells use clucose to grow they don't mind it's source and also grow at a far greater rate than cattle. So the source of clucose can actually be carbon negative which isn't possible with the roaming fart machines.
I totally appreciate where sips is coming from but it speaks from a greater sense of fatalism that the pure scale of humanity today induces. it's hard to be excited about progress in industries that create healthier, more eco-friendly technologies, when the end result is 8 billion people doing literally anything results in suddenly those technologies not being sustainable and it just being a different kind of destructive problem. The sooner people come to terms with the fact that humanity needs to disperse it's population to other worlds or drastically reduce it, the better it'll be for those that remain and all other living things on earth.
Hope they do a follow up conversation about all the controversy around the cyberpunk release. I’d be interested to know what they think about how CDPR handled the situation
I don't often agree with Lewis, but the comment about the best thing to do for the environment is not have kids COULD NOT be more true. The two dads just can't admit it.
HIYA!!! wat you doing you no eat meat! Uncle Roger no like! if i dont eat meat Uncle Roger mom take belt off! HIYA! no good at least eat MSG might help terrible vegan food
I hate the thought of eating meat yet that's mostly what I eat. I don't like the vegan defense of "Morals" because you essentially have to say the phrase "better than your enemies" as raising and eating an animal is just survival of the fittest. If a predator could eat you and they were hungry they would. We see spiders save prey for later on alive? The only difference is they didn't raise it (as they didn't have the intelligence we do) but still put their prey through the struggle of dying. (idk the pain of death but I think a cull would be less painful than a spider's bite. ) And why I say spider specifically is that it is part of the natural cycle of life. We are omnivores, hence why all our teeth are not sharp or dull, to rend flesh or chomp down on plant matter. We were built originally to take in both, so damning someone morally for their biology telling them to do a base need gets under my skin. (ehh, just me tho you can do whatever, I've been trying to switch to a specifically no meat diet. Everytime I chomp into some meat now my stomach churns, guess I ate too much.)
When it comes to vat grown meat of any kind, you still need to provide it nutrients to grow. You want a kilogram of meat, you'll need at least a kilogram of nutrients, probably more, as some of it will be excreted as waste products. Now chickens are a bargain compared to beef. You need 3.3 kilograms of feed for a kilo of poultry meat, but beef needs 25 kg of feed for one kg of beef. The other problem is that you're not growing a blob of meat, you're growing a thin sheet of undifferentiated proteins about 1 or 2 cells thick. To make something out of them you either roll up the sheets into "sausages" and cook that, or you glue the sheets together until you get something thick enough to serve. But the easiest way to process the sheets is to make ground meat. Hamburger or ground chicken.
If more intelligent people decide to not have children "for the good of the planet" the less intelligent and poor will make up for it many times over. Its already a major problem: the poor have the most kids by a large margin and the rich have very few when it should really be the opposite. All this crap about not having children is only making it worse. I guess if you really think it's going to help you mind as well off yourself now.
@@mrroams5812 from what i got, that was his whole point. I don't think anyone who is sane thinks it is wrong to have children, but if you feel the need to have six of them then there is the problem. And on the point of poorer people having more children because wealthy people have less makes no sense. Poor people won't decide to have 4 kids because they saw Elon musk only has one.
@@averyfabian9936 You're not getting what I'm saying. I said that the poor are the ones who are having by far the most children already and the rich are not. And who is going to listen to any rhetoric about having less children to save the planet? It's gonna be the middle class or rich. Which just exacerbates the problem. Also if you want to think about it this way, third world countries are also having by far the most children while first and 2nd world are not, but who is it that is preaching about having less children? 1st world countries... 1st world countries should be having *more* children because many of them are below replacement rates (just look at Japan). The rich should also be having more children since they can support them. The world is completely backwards in regards to this right now.
@@mrroams5812 Lewis literally said something along the lines of people need to become more educated and have less kids. He just says this as a blanket statement. To me this implies that the people having to many kids need to have less. And rich people and poorer people having an arms race to produce kids is not ideal either. I get what you mean by rich people should be the ones have more kids. It would improve the quality of life for for the poor people because they wouldn't have as many mouths to feed and it would be sustainable for the rich because they have the resources to take care of a larger family. But if one side starts having more kids and the other side doesn't change, this isn't changing much.
I kept my expectations low and am really enjoying cyberpunk. The only thing I'm disappointed about the character customization, there's so many cool cybermods and clothes you just cant get. Like the plastic-like skin mods some people have or really scrappy looking ones etc
Well hears the thing about kingdom come combat. Its realistic, its realistically hard which makes it good, Its like the combat system in war of the roses just slower. I think you have to actively try to be good at sword fighting in that game, fighting like its not a game but real life. If you whant a more chill but also quite realistic fighting game, Mount and Blade is the best So is kingdom comes fighting system the best, No. Mount and Blade is way more fun Theres never guna be the best sword fighting game thats fun easy and realistic. Its like comparing Fortnight to Rising Storm
@@dragoxk4542 i could, i just didn't whant the point im getting past to be jumbled, bucause i find it easy when reading big comments to read it, but miss out on its key points, i could have written a short story in the comment section going on about random old trash, but i just put the main points, so thats why.
Unfortunately, so far I haven't seen anything about the game that I'm actually interested in.. At least until they add VR support to it. With games this visually impressive and with such detailed worlds, I'd rather be IN that game world myself, doing the actions myself, than letting the developers and animators control everything I do to interact with that world, making me push buttons to activate those interactions, that's just boring. These days, the only non-vr games I play simply aren't possible in vr, like Oxygen Not Included. lol IMO, if it's first-person (or over the shoulder), it should have VR support at this point, especially something that big-budget. There's not really any excuse any more.. heh
@@EvileDik geforce 1060 3Gb and 8 Gb RAM. Dunno what AMD processor i got, but its 5 years old. Well below minimum specs. Runs at smooth 30 fps with most settings on high. Maybe you are playing on PS 3 or something?
I agree with Pyrion, Sips idea smacks of we can't solve everything so we should solve nothing.
He said that vegans need to come to terms with the fact that they're destroying habitats by switching to soy and other similar products. 70% of the world's soy gets used in animal feed.
Sips was right. Cyberpunk 2077 is a continuation of a series by Mike Pondsmith like Cyberpunk 2020 which is a role-playing game
Yeah! I used to play the table top RP , I'm enjoying cyberpunk 2077 a lot and I feel like you're rewarded for knowing some lore.
i love it when they disagree with a statement based on no evidence whatsoever XD best guys.
Lewis so sure and quick on the reply too just to say something wrong, "no".
and as usual, everthing lewis says must be taken with a grain of salt
The vast majority of hypers didn't know that tho
Never fails to amuse me how wrong Lewis always is just to be a contrarian. Sips was right; the game is an expansion of Mike Pondsmith's pen-and-paper tabletop
I am glad I didn't need to say it.
I love pyrion he's always the most sane and grounded of the three but the crazy opinions of Lewis and sips always brings out the funniest bits of him just confused and frustrated
Nah they're all insane
@@hagalathekido But they're each different kinds of insane.
Having watched every episode of this podcast so far I never thought I would be siding with pyrion over sips when talking about vegetarianism, but here we are
Pyrion staying silent for minutes at a time and coming back with "no, it's not weird. You're weird" just got me haha
I feel like Pyrion does a much better job of arguing for vegetarianism and veganism than the other two lol.
@@Shosty "Perfect is the enemy of good." is a phrase I always think of when I hear arguments like Sips' or find myself thinking that way.
@@Shosty yea, i love this podcast and the guys are great, but especially in the last few episodes, Sips has just said one outrageous thing after another. Starting with the one where he and Lewis both said they didn't want guests to go to the loo when visiting.
The man has no idea what he's talking about most of the time, and has some genuinely weird opinions that he thinks are normal. Like how he hates microwaves.
@@TykusBalrog I've said it for a long time but he is just extremely sheltered, this is a guy who was, in his own words, handed a job and since then he has barely left his room. He is a very toxic guy and you can see that alot in his streams, again this is a man who would constantly berate people for playing games all the time and say the only reason he isn't as god as them is because they play games all day, when his job is literally playing games all day.
@@a.garcha199 salt
@@a.garcha199 ok calm down mate. sips is a good guy. has his own views nothing wrong with that.
saying he is toxic is just bullshit
Any one wondering about sips arguing about the meat and stuff. He believes in the sum zero fallacy which isnt true.
Sips' point on the lab grown meat might be the stupidest thing ever said on the podcast which is fucking remarkable considering Lewis is also on this podcast.
Omg right? Im glad the others called him out
34:14 That's because eating a raw piece of chicken is very dangerous. xD
I'm glad someone else caught that!
Wow sips driving me up the wall here
At this point "I'm sure I've talked about this before" has just become a nervous tick or something.
I feel like one reason Pyrion likes having sips around is to have someone who's younger yet embraces being brazenly old-man-like and boomerly, so he can plus one sips' opinions while still maintaining a young and hip position.
After about a year and a half of listening to the triforce podcast, this is the first time im actually up to date with them. Happy I made it this far, but sad I cant binge them like I used to. Keep up the great work lads.
I’ve already listened to them all at least 20 times by now 😂
15:15 is very reason I don’t really play story driven games either. I love progressing and “farming” aspect. Guess this is why I’m deep into mmo-rpg/strategy/sandbox games.
By Sips' logic, mass produce vegan food would be as damaging to the planet as mass producing meat. If the ultimate goal of veganism is to reduce harm to the planet, why bother in the first place? Sips' thinking is so backwards and infuriating, Pyrion honestly sells the idea of veganism better than the others.
There's a big difference between saying that having children is morally terrible, and saying that it's one of the worst things you can do for the environment. I think Lewis was saying the latter, and he's correct. For example, Sips was talking about how bad mass production is always going to be. The fewer consumers you have, the less production is required. It takes a lot of resources to sustain an entire human throughout a typical life span. You'll never make up for all that by growing your own vegetables and recycling.
That doesn't mean that having children can't be justified, by any means. Pyrion is also right that, from a biological standpoint, the only "purpose" for life is reproduction. There are lots of reasons for having children. Everyone has to decide how much they're willing to give up for the environment. And let's be honest, nothing done on an individual level is going to fix things, anyway. It's great to do what you can. I still carefully sort my recycling, try to reduce waste, etc. But it'll take serious change from large corporations to really make a meaningful improvement.
To me saying that having children is one of the worst things you can do for the environment, while correct, is kinda like saying that humans being on the planet is one of the worst things they can do for the environment. This is also absolutely true, but it's kinda missing the point.
@UCsTfZOidTEIZih58Qi2-T0g Well any human in 1810 had less environmental impact, so I don't see how that relates to having children specifically. The Earth as a whole is overpopulated yes, but the problem isn't so much the absolute amount of people everywhere but the areas where the population is increasing, especially since those areas tend to also be places where industrialization and energy use is increasing as well. I (and probably you too) live in a developed country where the population is either stagnant or shrinking, so having children to maintain the current level or not letting it drop too fast isn't so bad, since being developed we're in a position to reduce our environmental impact through other means. Shrinking population will only lead to societal problems that hurt the ability to reduce our environmental impact.
Instead of not having children, the solution should be for the developed countries to maintain themselves so they can figure out the technology required to fix the immediate threats of climate change. Then the developing countries can industrialize and grow their energy demand in an environmentally friendly way, and as education level and quality of life increases for them, their population growth will also stop. THEN after the global population stagnates at 10-12 billion or whatever the current projections are, humanity can start thinking about where the population should eventually be dropped to.
EDIT: I think the person deleted the message as I was typing this reply, but this took a minute so I'll just leave it here I guess lol
Yeah I didn't think lewis was wrong on the child thing. You see a trend with "western" and "developed" countries having populations which produce less children, so that has its "positives" and "negatives" along with it.
@@joshnewell714 I suppose that one of the "positives" of the people who live in developed countries, is that they tend to produce less children so that means their lifestyle isn't being multiplied/added on. Yet, the "negative" of people who live in developed countries/live in an industrial or post-industrial lifestyle is that they, like you say, have a larger carbon footprint.
Here is the problem with a lot of the "Idea of eating something that tastes like meat stomach, churning even if it is not meat". I wish Sips and Lewis saw this because I've had this conversation with diehard almost militant vegans. Imagine a world in which Humans never ate an animal, never killed an animal, or ate/drank any biproduct of an animal.
Would that stop the Japanese Tube Chicken from being invented? I don't think so. They may very well still assemble the proteins in a sequence that makes Tube Chicken and say "OMG We've invented a new tasting food!" It now becomes a new food experience for everyone on the planet.
There is a sea weed that tastes like bacon when you cook it, but some vegans really dislike that because it reminds them of real bacon. To me it's ridiculous for any vegan or vegetarian to dismiss these types of food, lab grown or not. Base simply on the fact it tastes like something an animal would produce. Because in the world were no animals were ever harmed, they'd be eating these foods just because it's "something different/new experience". I mean we cook veggies in different ways to produce different tastes and textures. Denying yourself a taste just because it reminds you of something that comes from an animal is denying yourself an experience.
I agree with you to a certain degree, at least to the extent that there shouldn't be a moral dilemma simply by proxy. However, you're ignoring the fact that vegans have a lot of emotions attached to the concept of eating meat, and it will take a lot of time to rewire your brain to recognize that the emotions don't have to apply here. Also, there's a lot of scientific evidence that your gut biome, which undergoes changes when you change your diet, has an actual effect on what kind of foods you want to eat. So vegans or vegetarians who haven't eaten meat for a long time have developed a gut biome that can't handle animal products very well, thereby reducing your desire to eat them.
What I'm saying is, it's not simply a matter of principles, your body and brain are telling you that something that tastes like meat is not something you're supposed to be eating. I've been a vegetarian for around 10 years now, and while I completely support lab grown meat, I personally don't find the idea very appealing. Not because I have something against it, but because I just don't feel the need.
I can accept that body/brain connection because I do know this to be true. I would think that the end goal of not consuming animals at all would be more the focus by advocating for these products and not putting them down.
In this case, if Vegans simply didn't say anything bad or derogatory about these products it would be better for the end goal of "no animal products" than what I see online in many Vegan/Vegetarian forums and groups (I subscribe for recipes lol). And there are a LOT of negative comments about any product that is designed to replace animal meat.
Yet, products that are designed to replaced animal textiles (leather for example) oh no, they're perfectly fine. So it's very much a learned almost Pavlovian response specifically toward eatable "animal alternatives". Why are textile animal replacements OK, but Food replacements not? That is why I actively respond to vegans posting negative comments about meat tasting plant-based foods. There needs to be a re-alignment of thinking for Vegans, toward advocating these products. Not finding every reason they can think of to put them down.
@@SencneS Oh yeah, I completely agree with you. And I think it should be enough to just say "these products are not for me" and move on with your plant-based alternatives. Lab meat would be a win-win for everyone, because meat-eaters would get to continue eating meat and no animals would suffer. Probably better for the environment too.
I haven't personally encountered vegans with weird counter-productive convictions like these, but the reaction is probably rooted in emotions. Like guilt over enjoying something that tastes like bacon, which implies that you would enjoy bacon, and the idea makes you uncomfortable. Basically cognitive dissonance. Rewiring that mindset would take time, but I agree that it would be important to get those types of vegans on the same page
Jingle jam was awesome this year! a little sad that there was no live podcast bud still it was a great end of 2020
I have not listened to this podcast for a while. When Pyrion shook that bottle. I knew it was. Ever since Pyrion mentioned Huel, I looked into it and have also been using it.
I like this podcast because you get to (most of the time) align your opinion with at least one of the three sides (lewis, sips, pyrion) on any topic and sometimes agree with pyrion but then disagree with him and instead agree with lewis (as an example).
Lewis: confidently wrong once again.
Haven't listened yet. But often he kinda is and the comments are just stupid.
(and smartarsing using hindsight and google).
he's wrong on a family scale and happiness if you would like to have children. But on the flip side not having a child or just having one, in the long run for humanity wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
I'm really shocked that Pyrion and Sips shut Lewis down so hard when he was talking about over-population. Do they really think the planet can sustain an infinite number of people?
Sips is just talking shit here lol. The future of food production is in hydroponics and lab grown meats. This _will_ reduce the impact of humanity on the planet, as you will not need to deforest huge areas in order to grow crops/rear animals. That is the _exact_ point sips was saying about veganism too, except hydroponics and vertical farming will solve this. You can't just say 'mass production sucks' as a blanket statement lol.
Thank you. Sips just has no clue what he is talking about. Even growing the stuff the plant-based meat "alternatives" (don't call it that, just give it a unique name) takes up space, destroys ecosystems, etc. IF everyone was a vegan, we would need even more space. So hydroponics and synthetiv meats is the future, 100%. It is already cheaper than grwoing animals and planting crops. I also liked Pflaxs point about the solution to the moral dilemma. Good point.
Greenhouses in the Netherlands
Eh, I see his point. It's kind of a no free lunch/better the devil you know argument based mostly in not really being bothered... But I do think with lab grown meat there's an element of not really solving the problem, just exchanging the problem for a different one, and we know less about the new problem than the old one. I think it's quite normal for people to become wary of that with age. The new problem is always pitched in an idealistic way but the reality rarely meets those expectations.
@@lewis6590 Yeah you’re right, can you think of what a specific new problem might be? Nobody is saying that there are any perfect solutions, that would be naive, but in order for us to protect the climate we must focus on becoming hyper efficient as a species. I think lab grown meats can help us do that.
@@lewis809 a semi-realistic problem that some people might have with that is it might go against their morals or values simply because it is lab grown.
I love that they made Pyrion read the Manscaping ad
Do not have the time in the day to hear someone say "It's not a problem that will be solved in our lifetime"
Come on y'all--you're better than this
Episode 156 of PFlax against Sips and Lewis on the topic of being vegan/vegetarian. Will the argument ever end?
No, any development in these industries will be discussed to no end.
"I feel like it doesn't have to be provable."
Um, what?
I started dying when sips said hardcock shitbreaker
Talking about how dystopian it would be to have to work to get fed then realising that's exactly how society opperates.
WARNING: THIS TRIFORCE IS NOT ON SCHEDULE
Needed this, was listening to reruns
Lewis saying cyberpunk is really well polished, did not age well 😂😂
Sips has no understanding of global supply chain... the bubble he is in is dangerously close to weird Unabomber status
Pyrion is the only sane person of the three.
Cyberpunk is based on the 1988 pen and paper rpg
Canonically cyberpunk 2077 is actually based off the invention of neon lights. Devs literally said “Fuck you know those neon lights that like all the shops n clubs use? Why don’t we just make a game about that”
@@Deivid-bn6yw 'You guys seen those shiny cars driving around? Should we make a game out of that?'
Yeee I guessed it was Huel lmao
And you have tonnes of soya to feed the cattle.
29:00 Too real, guys. This literally just happened to me 15 minutes ago.
Sips is wrong and Pyrion is right
What's new lol
Sips is really pessimistic hope he's doing good
Fellow over 30 dad here.
Thats not pessimism.
Thats being tired of people who make minor changes to something, like their DIET,
Then complaining about problems of the world, like POLLUTION,
but still ordering sh*t from Amazon
OR my 2nd guess
he's probably just trying not to think about his tore up kitchen floor.
Thats what I would bet on.
Small changes sum up to bigger ones. Sips here is arguing a change is not worth anything unless it changes everything for the better and significantly alters the life of everyone. World changes but Sips isn't ready for it to change
@@MrMrchatcity meat (and farming in general) is a pretty significant factor of climate change lol
Lewis should look up the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement. His point about kids at the end there, is basically what they're advocating for.
Always find it funny how the Antinatalist types haven’t killed themselves, shows they don’t really believe what they say.
I love how Pyrion tries to avoid the word friend and says mods
I like how Sips' cyberpunk in the very beginning of the podcast being buggy was true for actual cyberpunk lol.
The fact that Manscaped sponsored the triforce podcast made my day
Sips just sounds like hes against everything XD no meat, no amazon, no mass production... sips wants to be a caveman
As a vegan - I MIGHT give the chicken a try, but it might make me feel a little sick.
1. sips we need more rimworld 2. cyberpunk is riddled with bugs I'm sure you know now. 3. Depends on the vegan who eating the vat-grown chicken. Do they do it for health reasons, cruelty reasons, or others. Just depends on the person.
I had a dream that they changed the Triforce faces.. They made new ones..
Why would I dream about that????
Lewis is right with the children, the cause of all problems is overpopulation.
From a purely mathematical point of view, Lewis is right about having children. But if you're a vegan who doesn't fly or drive, then your carbon footprint is like a fourth of average.
Cyberpunk and polished in the same sentence
Srsly....this hasn't aged well lol
Polish-ed
Is episode 156. Says 157 on the thumbnail.
Good news Sips. Tin can was fully released semi recently
Cyberpunk will be very polished - that didn't age well
Sips: replacing meat from cows from a deforested Amazonas would be just like letting someone on my toilet, not gonna happen!
In the future everyone will be made of vegetables
Cyberpunk is a D20 RPG like D&D and Call of Cthulhu. Suprised you nerds didn't know about it already.
I'm waiting on Ship Graveyard Simulator
And I thought Lewis was a nerd who knew about Cyberpunk tabletop. Heck, I know about it, and I'm not even a nerd...
serious question, do they not know that cyberpunk 2077 is based on the cyberpunk ttrpg that came out in 1985 and basically was the inspiration for every cyber punk tv show and movie?
I think that's what sips was saying but Lewis shut him down.
@@finleyjennings6051 i thought so but lewis shut him down so fast i wasnt sure
45:00 I mean, he's kinda right though lol
37:27 Wtf, Sips says no ethical consumption under capitalism? Fucking based.
Currently they do actually have to kill chicken to make the lab grown but I would probably (as a vegan) only eat it once there wasn't direct death from it and it wasn't horribly inefficient like regular chicken/animal farming.
and my god listening to sips is infuriating
lewis is captain planet
Hold on a moment. Why is Pyrion reading out the ad for manscaped?? In an old podcast he argues against the shaving of sacks and cracks, does he not?
I dont agree with everything they say either way thanks for the episode boys always entertaining :)
Cyberpunk is a continuation of a previously developed story... I don't understand how Lewis can speak so confidently about something he seems to know nothing about, I know I should be used to it but it still manages to be leave me baffled each time.
also pyrion saying he's not sure where cyberpunk can go... Seriously? There is a crazy amount of lore in the cyberpunk world and it has changed a vast amount already, to play the game without atleast knowing some of it and then making that criticism is a bit stupid, it's like starting the Witcher 3 without reading any of the books and saying wow not much has really happened in this world huh.
Lewis said it couple episodes ago, but anyways: he loves to have a conversation that has two views and he doesn't mind arguing over the "worse" side so that he can hear what the other side has to say.
@@I_THE_ME yh he says he is a contrarian and will argue a side he doesn't agree with just for the sake of it, but that really isn't relevant to this. There is no worse side here, it's right and wrong, cyberpunk 2077 is a continuation of an existing world and he confidently said it isn't.
Sips such a doomer about that lab meat argument
TL;DR do what you want cause a pirate is free
I eat plant-based meals and I'll take a shot at answering Pyrion's chicken question...as with everything on the internet, do your own research.
I'd eat the chicken but people are vegan for different reasons; these are the reasons I've seen for a vegan diet:
-Cows take up land and fart. cow food takes up land. why not just grow human food and leave more land for wildlife habitat. (My reason, I'm like sips w/ food so I'll stop eating meat to help balance someone else eating it. Also, I understand cows are still important for modern life as we use every piece of the cow in all sorts of things, not just food)
-Don't hurt animals (small animals get shredded by normal farming, killed by poisons, tough topic)
-Health/Animal fats gunking up insulin receptors (eating meat could be healthier, avoiding meat might help control weight and prevent type 2 diabetes, do research and make your own choice)
-Bonus: SPAAAAACE! (easier to grow plants in space than cows if we want to go somewhere far away, gonna want to do this research someday anyways for KFC in space)
I'm sure there are other reasons, feel free to add them below but for the love of Yahweh don't debate or take any advice in a RUclips comment section...like...just go do something more constructive, please! I'm just doing this to provoke thought!
edit: missed a big one: some people just don't like meat or don't want to eat it and that's cool too!
Lab grown meat products will quickly develop to have less of an impact on the environment than not only traditional farming but also veganism. It's so blatant that so many vegans think that veganism is some sort of super effective process that is single headedly combating environmental issues and don't realise that veganism is only marginally better for the environment on the grand scale of things.
damn, again I feel Sips and Lewis (especially Sips) arguments falls short for Pyrions. And Sips is so pessimistic, damn. His view on the future meat production is so wrong. He doesnt seem to have an understanding of the huuuge ecological impact of the meat industry we have today, and how bright the technology of lab grown meats are. Lab grown meats will lessen the ecological impact by tons.
Sips does have a point albeit not a very good or well constructed one that lab grown meat, like a lot of technologic advances, will come with its own set of problems and sure, it would more than likely lessen ecological impact but you can't say that for certain, you don't know the processes, bi-products, energy consumption or environmental impact of lab grown meat, we can assume it'd be better than rearing animals (and it probably would be) but it's all theoretical at the moment and the other problem is conversion, it's all fine and good having an alternative that is less ecologically impactful, but if it's not actually putting a dent in the meat industry then it's ultimately just adding to the problem, for example let's assume lab grown meat has half the carbon footprint of regular meat, now lets assume for every 1kg of meat they produce 500g of lab grown, if the lab grown meat only shifts sales (and eventually production) of regular meat to 80% that's a net gain in carbon footprint, that's kinda the argument Sips is going for with the whole mass production = bad kinda thing coz yeah it's all good saying lab grown meat = better for the environment but that's if everyone is on-board and it has a significant impact on the meat industry otherwise it's just another factory spewwing carbon emissions and god knows what else.
Also given humanities track record I wouldn't call it pessimism but rather realism, we have a knack for fucking things up worse.
Sorry but your base assumption of the grown muscle cells having half the carbon footprint is laughably wrong as the dry farts of a herd of cows would have a greater ecological impact than a comparable amount of lab grown muscle mass. As the cells use clucose to grow they don't mind it's source and also grow at a far greater rate than cattle. So the source of clucose can actually be carbon negative which isn't possible with the roaming fart machines.
Pyrion is always right
I totally appreciate where sips is coming from but it speaks from a greater sense of fatalism that the pure scale of humanity today induces. it's hard to be excited about progress in industries that create healthier, more eco-friendly technologies, when the end result is 8 billion people doing literally anything results in suddenly those technologies not being sustainable and it just being a different kind of destructive problem. The sooner people come to terms with the fact that humanity needs to disperse it's population to other worlds or drastically reduce it, the better it'll be for those that remain and all other living things on earth.
Hope they do a follow up conversation about all the controversy around the cyberpunk release. I’d be interested to know what they think about how CDPR handled the situation
I don't often agree with Lewis, but the comment about the best thing to do for the environment is not have kids COULD NOT be more true. The two dads just can't admit it.
sips based
HIYA!!! wat you doing you no eat meat! Uncle Roger no like! if i dont eat meat Uncle Roger mom take belt off! HIYA! no good at least eat MSG might help terrible vegan food
why are you sweating? HIYAAAA
Sips is saying EY more and more 😂😂
rip thumbnail
Humans are meant to eat meat, it is moral and much healthier to eat meat and vegetables than substitutes and grains.
i've never heard "it's moral to kill things" before
I hate the thought of eating meat yet that's mostly what I eat. I don't like the vegan defense of "Morals" because you essentially have to say the phrase "better than your enemies" as raising and eating an animal is just survival of the fittest. If a predator could eat you and they were hungry they would. We see spiders save prey for later on alive? The only difference is they didn't raise it (as they didn't have the intelligence we do) but still put their prey through the struggle of dying. (idk the pain of death but I think a cull would be less painful than a spider's bite. ) And why I say spider specifically is that it is part of the natural cycle of life. We are omnivores, hence why all our teeth are not sharp or dull, to rend flesh or chomp down on plant matter. We were built originally to take in both, so damning someone morally for their biology telling them to do a base need gets under my skin. (ehh, just me tho you can do whatever, I've been trying to switch to a specifically no meat diet. Everytime I chomp into some meat now my stomach churns, guess I ate too much.)
Enderal best story game
When it comes to vat grown meat of any kind, you still need to provide it nutrients to grow. You want a kilogram of meat, you'll need at least a kilogram of nutrients, probably more, as some of it will be excreted as waste products. Now chickens are a bargain compared to beef. You need 3.3 kilograms of feed for a kilo of poultry meat, but beef needs 25 kg of feed for one kg of beef.
The other problem is that you're not growing a blob of meat, you're growing a thin sheet of undifferentiated proteins about 1 or 2 cells thick. To make something out of them you either roll up the sheets into "sausages" and cook that, or you glue the sheets together until you get something thick enough to serve. But the easiest way to process the sheets is to make ground meat. Hamburger or ground chicken.
Wow the boys seem to be drifting towards radical socialism due to realizing how fucked the world is. I love it. Very based.
I 100% agree with lewis for the first time ever. About the havin babies carbon footprint thing. Preach Lewis dont let them breeders shut u down😂
If more intelligent people decide to not have children "for the good of the planet" the less intelligent and poor will make up for it many times over. Its already a major problem: the poor have the most kids by a large margin and the rich have very few when it should really be the opposite. All this crap about not having children is only making it worse. I guess if you really think it's going to help you mind as well off yourself now.
@@mrroams5812 i saw Idiocracy too
@@mrroams5812 from what i got, that was his whole point. I don't think anyone who is sane thinks it is wrong to have children, but if you feel the need to have six of them then there is the problem. And on the point of poorer people having more children because wealthy people have less makes no sense. Poor people won't decide to have 4 kids because they saw Elon musk only has one.
@@averyfabian9936 You're not getting what I'm saying. I said that the poor are the ones who are having by far the most children already and the rich are not. And who is going to listen to any rhetoric about having less children to save the planet? It's gonna be the middle class or rich. Which just exacerbates the problem. Also if you want to think about it this way, third world countries are also having by far the most children while first and 2nd world are not, but who is it that is preaching about having less children? 1st world countries... 1st world countries should be having *more* children because many of them are below replacement rates (just look at Japan). The rich should also be having more children since they can support them. The world is completely backwards in regards to this right now.
@@mrroams5812 Lewis literally said something along the lines of people need to become more educated and have less kids. He just says this as a blanket statement. To me this implies that the people having to many kids need to have less. And rich people and poorer people having an arms race to produce kids is not ideal either. I get what you mean by rich people should be the ones have more kids. It would improve the quality of life for for the poor people because they wouldn't have as many mouths to feed and it would be sustainable for the rich because they have the resources to take care of a larger family. But if one side starts having more kids and the other side doesn't change, this isn't changing much.
nice
This episode was a real funge
nah mate, #animalsarefood
I think sips is incredibly pessimistic, but I'd be careful not to insinuate that he's like a s*** person or something because of that
3 laymen with no scientific background talk about extremely incorrect views on prosthetics
Tried some plant based, meat free nuggets the other week to see what they are like and I reckon cardboard would taste better than them.
It takes a while to find the good stuff in vegan products, 95% is rubbish, but some of it is really good. You just need to experiment!
I kept my expectations low and am really enjoying cyberpunk. The only thing I'm disappointed about the character customization, there's so many cool cybermods and clothes you just cant get. Like the plastic-like skin mods some people have or really scrappy looking ones etc
The blade looking legs
The hardest part of a vegetable to eat is the wheelchair.
Well hears the thing about kingdom come combat.
Its realistic, its realistically hard which makes it good,
Its like the combat system in war of the roses just slower.
I think you have to actively try to be good at sword fighting in that game, fighting like its not a game but real life.
If you whant a more chill but also quite realistic fighting game, Mount and Blade is the best
So is kingdom comes fighting system the best, No. Mount and Blade is way more fun
Theres never guna be the best sword fighting game thats fun easy and realistic.
Its like comparing Fortnight to Rising Storm
Next time
Just use commas
Or full stops
(Periods if you’re cringe)
So as to break up your writing
And still make it easy to read
@@dragoxk4542 i could, i just didn't whant the point im getting past to be jumbled, bucause i find it easy when reading big comments to read it, but miss out on its key points, i could have written a short story in the comment section going on about random old trash, but i just put the main points, so thats why.
@@tylerjirkovsky482 interesting I find it much easier to read when it's all together
Before i listen to this..is the whole episode shiting on cyberpunk?
No they had quite a lot of good to say
Its not the biggest game launch... FIFA got a few more million sales
Most amount of players at once, not sales
@@dragoxk4542
Ah, thanks for the clarification
Unfortunately, so far I haven't seen anything about the game that I'm actually interested in.. At least until they add VR support to it. With games this visually impressive and with such detailed worlds, I'd rather be IN that game world myself, doing the actions myself, than letting the developers and animators control everything I do to interact with that world, making me push buttons to activate those interactions, that's just boring. These days, the only non-vr games I play simply aren't possible in vr, like Oxygen Not Included. lol
IMO, if it's first-person (or over the shoulder), it should have VR support at this point, especially something that big-budget. There's not really any excuse any more.. heh
I agree, but considering it's not even optimized for pancake, I'll wait 6 months for CDPR or VropX to port it for VR.
@@EvileDik geforce 1060 3Gb and 8 Gb RAM. Dunno what AMD processor i got, but its 5 years old. Well below minimum specs. Runs at smooth 30 fps with most settings on high. Maybe you are playing on PS 3 or something?
Man, Cyperpunk has just been a complete mess in like every possible way
I still love the game, the glitches make it even better for me. so funny
Alas, I miss the olden days of Yogscast but still appreciate your guys’ podcast. Y’all remember Shadow of Israphel?
The Yogscast is still great. You just have to see it with fresh eyes.