JJ Redick & Mad Dog's HEATED DEBATE about Larry Bird & Steph Curry 🍿 | First Take
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- Опубликовано: 14 фев 2023
- JJ Redick & Mad Dog's HEATED DEBATE about Larry Bird & Steph Curry 🍿 | First Take
Stephen A. Smith, JJ Redick and Chris "Mad Dog" Russo get into a heated debate on First Take.
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"Guys were getting powerbombed through tables in my day. Wasn't even a foul. I killed a man once in a game - nobody thought it was a foul." - every dude from the 80's
Lmfao 😂 this comment deserves more likes 😂
“With a Trident 🔱 “
@@Mdautkreix wasn't even a common foul
LMAOOOOO
I swear lmfao
Stephen telling someone else to calm down is hilarious😂😂😂
Absolutely!!!!!
Bird's shooting skills would easily translate to today's game. It was just a different game back then where they didn't shoot at all.
Right
And Bird was a great shooter either from mid range or 3 point range and he was a clutch shooter..
Top 3 shooters of all time to me, no numerical order.
Curry, Bird, and Dirk
They had alot of great scorer's in the 80's,,are u insane...lol
@@bolo5190 you are right about those 3 guys,, great shooter's,,and don't forget Mark Price and Drazen Petrovich
But this isn’t factual you are just guessing. Maybe he wouldn’t be able to and would adjust to a different style of play. That statement is just as reasonable. Fact is it’s not true, it didn’t happen so you can’t say that
They were more physical then, but you can't argue that they were guarding the 3 point line like they do now, they just didn't. They wanted players to shoot 3's, even guys like Larry. They would rather him shoot the 3 than from the mid range.
All they do now is guard the 3 and scramble and close out on shooters like their life depended on it, which is why the game is so open now for guys that want to dominate the mid range.
Well said bro
@@Davyw95 COACHES didnt want players to shoot the 3 though back then. it was considered "a bad shot". players back then had to learn how to shoot the 3 on their own. there was very little if any coaching or focus on that shot.
bird did what he did even though the shot was stigmatized.
bird did what he did even though he had a bad shooting hand HIS ENTIRE CAREER.
statistically and analytically jj is correct i agree. but there is more to this debate than analytics and statistics.. and i agree "MA PHYSICALITY" isnt an argument either..
the fact the shot was stigmatized and coaches actively discouraged the shot is more of an argument.
also, you have to give credit for bird doing what he did on a bad shooting hand. that also matters.
I think Bird helped elevate it more because of the cultural impact of seeing a white man hooping it up and backing it up. I'm not doing the race card, all I'm saying is representation of all people elevates the impact factor. Mahomes in time god willing will be the goat.
@@100percentBroonese oh bird wanted to shoot the 3.. it was a FACT, not an "if", that the coaches, etc stigmatized it. and as others have pointed out, bird was one of the best at the time when he DID shoot the 3.. and i believe would be one of, if not the best today.. ESPECIALLY since the 3 is looked at as the primary shot now.. and the mid range / free throw is secondary.
@@100percentBroonese wont deny that. i just dont think bird gets enough respect for how good he actually was. there's no doubt in my mind he should be in the GOAT conversation.. maybe not 1.. but mount rushmore.. yeah i think there is a case.
Larry Bird was too clean. Elite of the elite 🐐💯
Every time JJ Redick speaks, I disagree with almost everything he says…..
Full court pressure was much more intense and physical. Being and to put your elbow on your opponents thigh or lower back has an effect. Grabbing around picks more so that guarding around the three was even more intense than currently
Stephen A is "Flabbergasted "
"I'm Flabbergasted but here's why I'm not"
🤣🤣🤣🤣@@rh81454
This is why I love jj he calls out the older heads for romanticism when it comes to the old days. Yes the old days were physical but the act like every play was a bunch fists being thrown and today's era is just players saying excuse and letting each other pass on through
I'm in my 40's and truth is just like how Wrestling fans my age talk non stop still around me about the Attitude Era I always say some Monday Night Raw's were horrible after Stone Cold and The Rock did a promo or you waited for them. Bad storylines and no flow. People think every Wrestlign show was amazing. Same with the sports. I got a lot of VHS tapes of NBA games still and some really bad boring games, bad refs back then too. Some amazing defense and different style. To me these generation people on the shows JJ gets it but overall it's like hey Super Mario Brothers on NES was awesome but so is new one. People get blindsided.Good and bad for each era. Right now the NBA has so many great young talent to enjoy but my only issue is the bad Refs making horrible calls ruining it for fans.
I mean literally you could have gotten smacked left and right running around in the 80s and 90s compared to now. Don't you think that has to mess with the psychology of the players when they're running around trying to score?
In the 80s, Steph Curry would have definitely played basketball, but he may not have made as many three-point shots as he does now
@@Ytpremium5389 I agree and that's really because the game back then wasn't built around it. I believe in 1988 teams (not players) were only averaging maybe 5 attempts a game. Reggie Miller even touched on that. If Reggie was allowed to shoot like Steph his whole career as well as others who knows. Even John Starks in 94 I think led the league in 3's with 214 made? My memory not as good. I watched his dad play and Steph is def. better than his father but if he wasn't allowed to play his game he'd be a role player. But the 80's was a long long time ago. Things changed
JJ REDDICK is a LOSER 💯
These guys love to talk about physicality like they was getting shot
This is why you don't argue era. The game, rules, players, head office, etc has evolved..every era had/has greatness to appreciate. The era arguments to me always comes from biase and baseless claims.
Depends on context, if MJ played in today’s era, imagine how many points he could put up with so much space there is to score, 40ppg! Easily! No debate on GOAT
If you remove era arguments, these guys will be out of jobs
@@azncrombie4u How many shots per game like 35? MJ averaged 30 points per game on 23 shots per game.
@@azncrombie4u if MJ played today then he might wouldn’t have been the MJ we knew. You can’t just take a player and add him to an era and say he’d be great.
@@Ax3v3211 assuming you surround MJ with shooters, since it’s a shooters league now
When run of the mill guys are out here getting 40 and 50 point games, the game has gotten more laxed
Or… now bear with me now cause this might blow your mind… players are just better
@Chris Taggart I don't think that is the case, when most guys aren't playing defense, scoring will realistically go up.
Whats bigger difference,
More offensive flow in modern nba vs better players?
Therein lies the question.
@Ken players aren't any better, the game just doesn't allow for the same level of defense and physicality like it used to
They just didn’t Shoot as many 3’s back in the day, if they had the mentality of today to just throw up as many 3’s as possible who knows how good he would of been when compared to Steph’s numbers
@OsamaBinLadensSecondGirlfriend Bird scored 60 against the Hawks shooting right handed. He scored 47 against the Blazers left handed. Get your facts straight.
That’s not good logic
I really don't understand this notion players were just as good 40 years ago
Just go back rewatch the games and you will see how much better guys are today
@@garysalazar5279 I mean the fact he’s done both of these things only adds to his general point even if it isn’t completely accurate no need to be mad lol
They're talking about 3 point shooting specifically. We all know about Larry Bird's greatness and impact in the game, but you can't deny that there are better 3 point shooters than him. And that's a knock against Bird, it's just how the game has evolved.
The issue I have with the game today is that if you are going to be really strict on defensive fouls so as to “let the players play,” why also be so lax on travelling and carrying? It is absolutely ridiculous. Be strict on both or lax on both.
It's because offense makes the $.
@@smokeyjoe795okay but it’s not impressive when you’re not following the rules of the game. Why dribble at all?
They are not relaxed on traveling and carrying they have actually changed the rules. A carry on a travel on the playground or in LA fitness gym is not the same as a carry or travel in the NBA.
This. They allow players to essentially run with the ball
@@MrFantastic_82 I am not aware of any rule change for either travelling or carrying. When were the changes and what were they?
Larry Bird didn’t even grow up with the 3pt-line… and still showed that he could kill it from there! That whole “time machine argument” from JJ is just asinine… If Bird came up today, he’d be used to the 3pt-line from the get go, and have the green light to shoot as many as he could. He can’t change when he was born! He still was most likely the top 3pt-shooter of his era (and definitely the best overall shooter) and still made his mark as one of the GOAT (3pt) shooters! Larry won 3 straight 3 point contests! Had some of the best ALL TIME performances in those contests (even hitting 11 shots in a row once)! For 7 seasons he was top10 in 3p% in the league! He was twice the leader in 3pointers made, and 7x in the top10! And actually, in the mid-80’s when he increased his attempts and they ran more plays for that 3pt shot, his percentages increased too! He was twice in the 50/40/90 club! From 1984 til 1988 (that’s 5 seasons), averaged 27 PPG on 51.2/40.0/89.9 shooting splits! And Larry is one of those players who’d be EVEN better nowadays!! C’mon now……
I am appalled how many people are falling to grasp this point
presented my argument way better than i did lol.
and lets not forget bird did this on a bad shooting hand.
There have been all-time greats with significantly more production at the 3pt line. That’s no shade to Bird’s legacy…. The greats can perform in any era and surely Bird would eat in today’s game. But just look at other 50/40/90 members taking and making more threes proves the point. Bird is definitely in the argument for best overall shooter/scorer but he can’t get hypothetical points for playing in the wrong era.
That’s a hypothetical though someone that never exists sure you could be right but you can’t base someone as better if it never happned if Jordan never retired he would have 8 rings we could say and that would create little to no debate with Lebron but he did retire and you can’t give extra points to a player of a hypothetical
Again with the stupid hypotheticals
I just think it's funny he never criticizes the players of today only old ones
Because they will beat him up
But you’re completely fine when Mad Dog does it 😂
Don't like him either
JJ the most resonable person on First Take
That's why he won't be on long. SAS doesn't like people being logical because it isn't as entertaining
The most "say what the kiddies wanna hear" on First Take u mean
He’s too reasonable for the show.
@@lilb1190
Bingo. Stephen A wants a clown circus, not a cerebral debate.
@@lilb1190 JJ has been on for 5 months now , he's not going anywhere
This is very easy to solve. Show any random game from the 80s and any random game from today. One looks like football the other looks like dancing
It's definitely tougher. Even when it's coming to shooting now, you fouled for closing out in the landing space back then that's not really getting called like that it was tougher period
@@mikem4481 for you to just make up his actual point shows you know he is right. He said they overhype the physicality if you actually watch the segment Jj said it was more physical but gave more nuanced descriptions of it. He said players were setting plays and not as mobile, handchecking is only allowed in scoring area and the only era where illegal defense is a call made was during Jordan’s era. Jordan was able to do 1v1 against everyone nobody was allowed to double team like they can now. Stop acting like dudes was beating each other with hammers
@@mikem4481 people who can’t argue facts don’t usually respond nothing I said you can refute
@@mikem4481 just an fyi this is your second response to my comment 😂
@@mikem4481 thanks for proving me right 😂 y’all mjbtq niggas always resort to emotion over facts
Mad dog was being generous comparing RUclips to live viewing. There’s no way JJ has even watched a more than a few clips of Bird, let alone entire games
Why would there be no way he was watched entire games of Larry Bird? I, myself as a 28 year old who wasn't in the nba obviously, have seen 5-10 full length larry bird games online or on NBA TV.
@@zachnantz5304 let’s call it 7.5 then. Less than 1/10 of one season. Divided again by 15 years. You’re talking a fraction of a percent of his career. Doesn’t stack up to real-time viewing in the least
Lol mad dog watched both Steph n bird n yet doesn’t realize bird averaged more free throw makes n attempts , claiming “Steph lives at the free throw line” lmao
Btw neither r very high in free throw percentile rate. Jus shooting percentage obvi
This man doesn’t know basketball at all. Smh curry couldn’t play in the 80s because he was weak and remember they hand checked and ride you the whole game and then it is a man putting his feet under his feet. Please stop
I can't take JJ seriously after the Lebron goat argument. It just shows how trash ESPN has become. When JJ is the voice of reason for your network, you know you fucked up.
JJ has a pretty clear bias against players before his time. Mad Dog just doesn't know much about sports. He's a performer, not an analyst. Of course Curry is a better shooter than Bird, or anyone else, but to say that Bird isn't one of the best clutch 3-ball shooters of all time is just ignorant. He made his competition look like children in the 3-point contest.
Bird was the one of first, if not the first, player to shoot threes with a hand in his face. Although not a common occurrence because teams back then are not used to guard the three point line or a three level scorer like Bird. Bird was also excellent moving without the ball just like Curry. Also, Steph did not live on free throws but he definitely knew how to bait calls (ie. falling after releasing the shot). Thats why it's really hard to compare two athletes in two different eras. It's like comparing your average modern-day physician to Alexander Fleming. I think it would better to compare how players fared in their respective competition, like class ranking in schools. But who knows, these guys are just arguing for us to type comments and watch their videos.
Steph gets the least amount of free throws for a superstar of his caliber, role players get more FTA than him. Also, a hand in the face isn’t the same as being held, grabbed and triple teamed. We have the footage it’s there. Also defense was different between the eras, you couldn’t double team like you can now, u couldn’t zone like you can now. Also, the physicality aspect gets overblown. There are players smaller than Steph in height and weight who played in the 80s. Isiah Thomas is smaller than Steph and he was fine, Spud Webb, Mogsy Bogues, etc… Steph is 6’3/195 lbs that’s not small. Bird was a great 3pt shooter, but he’s not near Steph in that category.
No one is arguing Larry Bird's greatness. He is a legend and still the best player to ever wear the Celtics jersey. But they are talking about 3 point shooting specifically. And with the game evolving, there are gonna be players who can shoot the three ball better than him.
I'm with JJ, how I remember 80s basketball and rewatching 80s games now, very revealing. The games look like their in 0.75 playback speed and do yourself a favor, watch the players without the ball. Almost everyone is standing upright. Note the lack of cutting, lack of motion without the ball. Watch how teams move from set to set. It's a completely different experience. Look at the contests, or lack thereof, for mid and long range shots because of how many players are in the lane. Where the game absolutely was more physical was in the hits in the lane. But there's no way less massive, less fast players were "more physical". The game was not more physical at the pace it was played. Even in the 90s, you're talking about 3-4 teams primarily noted for their physical play in the Knicks, Pistons, Heat, and Pacers. But don't take my word for it, don't rely on your memory or nostalgia, watch the games. I was making Mad Dogs' argument up until a year ago.
Players TODAY are FASTER,STRONGER,AND BETTER Than THE 80'S
@@tednicklas3538 Team basketball of fundamentals isn't tho
@@statusofmyown9829 right because you can typically get away with being less technical when you’re a better athlete. Fundamentals are crucial for a slow footed athlete that can’t jump or run fast which is why Jokic today is extremely successful even though he’s basically in negative motion. Physics at its finest.
Everything changes
the pace was slow and there was a lot of pounding in the game, that takes away a lot of energy from players, it's definitely slower for sure. When you take that pounding back and forth, you need to work on shoulder more, you need to work on core more. Now you see not so wide shoulders player like Klay Thompson becomes absolutely great, hard to imagine that back in the day.
That being said, there is absolutely no way possible that previous generation has better 3 point shooters. Shooting is a simple math, made/attempt. You can make a point about why they dont shoot as much, but that's irrelevant to how good they are.
It’s like JJ thinks that by giving ANY credit to those that came before him will diminish his stats/‘legacy’.
You put a 6’10 forward with elite passing, rebounding, shooting, above average defence (3x to all defensive teams) in any era and you have a great player. On todays game, he doubles or triples that number of 3’s he takes.
To say that Larry wouldn’t be one of the best 3 point shooters in the league if he played today is total ignorance. The type of ignorance that JJ has shown in the past with his attempts to diminish those that came before him.
Larry had the most 3’s in 2 successive season in the league. buddy hield has made THIS year and we aren’t even at the all star break! Larry averaged less than 2 3’s per game for his career. To think that he wouldn’t be shooting more than 5 a game today, with the way he shoots it is ridiculous.
Im a bird fan but Steph is obviously a better three point shooter. It isn't a fair comparison. In Bird's day the three point shot was a new thing and considered a play of last resort. If Bird played today he would have developed his three point shot and utilized it more often. There is no doubt in my mind that Bird would have been a far greater three point shooter if he played today. But he didn't so you have to go with Steph.
Weak argument!!
I don't give people credit for something they "could have done!"
Roberto Clemente has 3,000 hits... He died in a plane crash during a humanitarian mission on the following New Year's Eve... OBVIOUSLY, had he finished 1971 season with 2,999 career hits, we'd all KNOW that he "could have" attained 3,000 hits rather easily but since he ACTUALLY did it, we never hafta argue the "possibilities."
Redick is correct when he states that many folks have shot more for a better percentage... He never said that Bird was garbage but I can only argue the actual totals and common sense!!
Redick concedes that Bird was a great player but would NOT rate him as high as third (or fifth) as an all time 3-Point shooter... That's not an insult!!
Common sense dictates that in a smaller sample size, you should see a higher percentage... The mathematical derivation (explanation) is regression to the mean...
So, if several folx have shot for a higher percentage and at greater volume, those individuals would HAVE TO be considered better!! Anything else is just conferring or assigning greatness which doesn't actually exist...
Craig Hodges had a significantly higher 3-Point shooting percentage as Larry Bird's contemporary... But Craig Hodges doesn't get the "notice" because he's not "a household name."
@@notoriousbid3169 Thank you! People act as if Larry was better at 3 point shooting than Craig was lol.
JJ gives a masterclass in toolbaggery
Imagine genuinely thinking that "but I was there courtside, you weren't" is an argument lmao
There is a huge difference of watching something on RUclips highlights and watching it live chill
@@WorldofSportstrollIs it? From an entertainment standpoint it is. Not like a player will look better in real life than watching on your device, you will still see the type of player they are from both
@@WorldofSportstroll there’s a difference for the feeling and entertainment of it, not a difference in what happened in the game. If anything watching on TV (and RUclips) is *better* for telling what happened on a play since you get a clearer view of everything, while sitting courtside your view of players gets obstructed by the angle or by other players in the way. Mad Dog’s comments are completely irrelevant to the topic. Mad Dog is acting like the tv camera is changing what happened in the game, it’s nonsense.
@@kpaukeaho6180exactly.
@@WorldofSportstroll yes, watching it live you get caught up in the moment and are prone to exaggeration like all those stories about how strong wilt was. of course majority of these accounts were not recorded and those that were dont match how they were describe by people who saw it live.
Why they cut this so short
1. Shooters on average are better today
2. Steph is a better 3 point shooter than Bird
3. The 80s was more physical than modern basketball
4. Defenses are more sophisticated than the 80s
5. Players today benefited from players of the past. Comparing a player from now to the 80s is ridiculous because the knowledge of basketball grows over time.
Definitely more physical back in the day.. BIRD was a killer ppl have to pay attention it's crazy how ppl play the game try to compare eras and players smh
SAS like let me just chill and enjoy this 🤣
You can’t argue with nostalgia. Older generations are emotionally attached to their greats and no amount of data or rational argument is going to persuade them that the past has been eclipsed.
Not eclipsed. The game is played differently now.
Didn't they argue about this last season
Click bait
So Curry got fouled more than Bird? Gtfoh.
JJ is wrong. If coaches gave the green light to shoot the three and players practiced it as much as they do now, bird would have been among the greatest 3-point shooters of all time stats wise too. He might not have been better than Steph Curry, but he would have been a better version of Dirk Nowitzki to say the least.
This guys clearly just bias to his era. Can't accept that people are better than people he watched when he was younger
Bird shot 40% from 3 and 90% from ft and was a better midrange shooter than Jordan.
He obviously was one of the best 3 point shooters he just didn't take as many
I know where mad dog is coming from, i started watching basketball early 90's, but the game is just so different teams only shot 7 3's a game total back then, and probably less in the larry bird era.
We have to see both sides. The same way many say MJ is the greatest and never seen him play. They really don’t know how great he was.
@@d3vp131 yeh I feel you
@@spacexmike yh I agree. We don't know if he would shoot better now or not. Because he would attempt a lot more but hed also practice it more. And they guard the 3 more
I was about to get heated myself. Because Bird played less minutes, less game's and shot more points on much better efficiency than most of the greatest players to ever play. So you add on more minutes to match their's and Larry Legend would outscore most player's out of their scoring title rank. Funny enough Steph Curry and only Kevin Durant are as similar in their shot efficiency when compared to Bird, alongside all the other greatest players.
@OsamaBinLadensSecondGirlfriend Yeah idk too many players nowadays that will tell you when, where they're gonna shoot it in your face. Complete the shot and then also tell you we're gonna kick your azz tonight. Or if he says I'm gonna get 40 tonight and does it. While making almost all his shots, always. Draped on him or not, idk how you can debate that. Give me Steph/MJ/LeBron/Bird/Shaq.. That's my lineup as of now. If Durant gets another title, I'll slide him in over Bird I guess. Because of the longevity award. As for a shot maker, you want I.Q and killer mindset, you put Bird in there with MJ and Kobe. I also like Hakeem, Dirk, CP3, Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka and Malone/Stockton. Then of course my Pacers guys.. I could make a ton of great All-Time team line-ups. I get upset when people over look Larry Bird.. as if he's far outside the top 5.. lol.... Idk what games you grew up watchin.
If you shoot more your effciency goes down
@@burrybondz225 it goes down slightly unless you’re just a bad shooter
I would actually that watching on RUclips will paint a clearer picture because you can rewind, zoom in, and replay as much as you’d like.
Do they include Mad Dog there for increased stupidity? I don't remember ever agreeing with anything he says about basketball. I don't even know what sport he comes from....
JJ seems like there is something off with him
Just because there are better 3point shooters than Larry Bird does not make him any less great a player. He's still a Hall of Famer and arguably the best Celtic player ever. I don't understand how some people can't get around that.
I don’t think that was the argument
That wasn't the argument!!
Redick concedes that Bird is a great player... He says that he would NOT rank Bird in the Top 3 (or Top 5) all-time of 3-Point shooters... This is NOT an insult but folks are losing their mind as though someone is saying that Bird is "lousy" because of Redick"s ranking of him...
Bird was on another level entirely. He was guarded by legends in the NBA and still came out on top. He would literally tell people who guarded him what he was about to do, then do it. When it came down to pressure, he was in a league of his own. I can't think of a single NBA legend who didn't have serious issues playing against him.
Larry Bird for sure one of the greatest shooters ever! If JJ wants to just look specifically at 3 point shooting then I can get down with him not being a top 5 3 point shooter ever.
He’s not top 10
@vic0343 he shot 50 40 90 two times in his career. Only Steve Nash has done it more. Steph, KD and Kyrie have only done it one time for comparison. 50% from the field, 40% from 3 and 90% from the free throw line for a season. In an era where the 3 point shot wasnt focused on at all, Bird was still very proficient!
@@averyb.476 he also shot 20% 4 times and 33% another time is not close he was the best for his era but theirs atleast 10 better 3 point shooters than him rn
@vic0343 absolutely but you have to do something to normalize it to compare across eras. At his peak Bird was the best shooter in the league at his time and doing 50 40 90 twice shows he could shoot are score effectively/effiecently at all 3 levels. Steph is for sure the greatest 3 point shooter and shooter period, but there is a strong argument for Bird to be somewhere after curry in that top 10 top 5.
@vic0343 just shooters. Not 3 point shooters because he didnt attempt and make as many as guys do now. Although he could and was great at it. 3x three point contest winner (all in a row) which is the most all time. Curry has 2 of those by the way. We gotta put some respect on Birds name lol
Stephen A the show is called “first take” not “stephens show” we get it you’ve been down with ESPN for a long time but relax bro allow others to go at it minus you sometimes.
Arguing with someone about there opinion and what they actually saw makes no sense to me!!
😂😂 Stephen A couldn't get one word in
That's a good thing
I love JJ and I agree with him 99.9% of the time. To say Bird is NOT one of the greatest 3 point ever is probably the stupidest take I’ve ever heard. Bird is not THE greatest ever but he certainly is ONE of them. Also how can JJ say his one of the greatest shooters ever and on the same sentence say he is NOT one of the greatest 3 point shooters ever??!??
@@RekAjeet I wouldn’t call JJ deadass he just got it wrong this time.
Go watch the Lakers vs Celtics in 1985. Dudes were legit standing in the paint when Larry had the ball just like with every other player, and he was not even shooting them.
It is true , very hard to compare era. I think there is a new kind of era that is now coming up.
Big guys like Jokic, Luka, Wembayama , Lebron and many more coming that can shoot 3, pass , rebound
and many more. The Steph Curry and Lebron now will be consider inferior as JJ Redick said it is.
Having Russo on the show still just has no respect for the modern analyst. WHY ARE WE PROJECTING PURE IGNORANCE????
Ik there’s some times when JJ uses basketball terminology aka code plays they don’t be understanding the concept of his point
may seem like a bizarre analogy but the 3 point shot became like what a treflip is to skateboarders. 20 years ago a tre flip had only been landed by 2 people. 30 years before that it was completely unthinkable. Now 12 year olds across the world can pull off this manuever almost as a prerequisite for considering themselves of any ability. Iss the manuever any easier now than it once was?
i think this is where people get lost. of course it is of the same relative difficulty. what changes permanently over time is attitudes toward the sport and emphasis on the motions.
larry bird triggered a generation of young basketball players who sought to shoot the three ball from as young as they could make it to the hoop. Larry bird was on his own level back then in the same relative way that a guy like steph is now.
Bird diidnt put up steph numbers, but bird did feed the imagination of the game and force it to become something that it was inevitably gong to be at some point. just like with bird, so has steph done this.
I think people fail to draw connections between how a figure like bird impacts a larger shift in attitudes about the game and what is deemed important.
@@urbanlegendsandtrivia2023 true but in this case skaters were not having difficulty *landing* the 360 flip prior to 1994, they simply lacked the understanding that it was a realistic possibility/ something to strive toward. it was evident 40 years ago that if you practiced pulling off this motion that it was possible. a double tail/ symmetrical shape was not required for the motion (and didnt come around til '89 anyways, 5 years before jason dill is credited with uh 'reinventing' the 360 flip).
in reality the tre flip was invented by the same guy who invented the kickflip, and at the same time ie. many years earlier in the early 80s. Rodney mullen made it very obvious that you could do all these things with a skateboard, but it wasnt until more than a decade later somebody else set their mind to performing this hitherto seemingly impossible feat (much like the kickflip had once been before Mullen presented that to the world).
not an exact analogy but i feel like larry bird unlocked the imagination of the game for those who were nurtured within the game and came after. larry bird is rodney mullen to steph's nyjah or something (not a huge fan of nyjah but idea is clear), you practice something obessievely your whole life you are bound to be amazing at it.
in the case of this next gen of skaters and hoopers, since kids they have been fed off clean fliptricks and endless pullup range, cant be surprised that 15 years in, when they are 24 or something that they are resemble nothing anyone has ever seen before. culture of the sport builds off itself, and the defacto toolset expectations change
Hand Checking and Kurt Rambis would say the games were more physical back in the 80's and 90s
When your argument is boiled down to you need to have been there, and rewatching the games on youtube isnt the same, then youve played yourself
I mean how do you explain that there’s 7 guys in the NBA today avging 30+pts a game? Lebron whose 38 now is about to have back to back 30+ pt avges for the first time in his career….teams are scoring more pts per game today but we cant say the league is easier to score?
It's funny because it's a fact that the league deliberately changed the rules to increase scoring many years ago. And it worked very well and continues to work today. Also changed the NBA playstyle making it less diverse.
According to Doggie, Steph Curry from previous birth was better since he saw him live in 1850's.
This is like Skip vs Sherman all over again for Stephen A Smith 😅
JJ is incredibly ageist. Anything before the 2010s is considered obsolete and not worth his time by his standards. It's an increbily disrespectful viewpoint, and I'm reminded again of when Bill Russell died JJ did not say a thing because it was not long after the whole "plumbers and fireman" idiotic take.
Give respect to Bird. A top 3 shooter
No. Steph, klay, ray, Reggie, dame,
Bird was 50% from the field. In his era and 38% from three... Again, in his era. Hand checking rules to stop the shooter and all that. Bird was definitely a top 3 shooter. Factoring eras these debates are a different ballgame. Jordan would avg. 35 today, easy
@@MB-gd6be meh who cares if he shoots 38% from 3 when he attempted less than 2 3 pointers per game.
ESPN editors saved the Old Dog there LMAO
ANOTHER silly debate. Steph isn't better than Bird. No way possible. Stop it 🙄
Its fair to say that there is the patrick Beverleys and so on today. The thing is every team had a few of those back then. And it wasnt so friendly like today. Players really didnt like eachother off the court either. I think thats what ppl mean by saying the game is soft today.
The Larry Bird disrespect is friggin insane 🙄
JJ STOP IT! Curry has REGULARLY CHOKED IN BIG GAMES. Larry Bird Excelled! Now let's talk about Curry's non-existent defense and Bird's far superior defense and pass. LOL.
You are retard and a clown, talking about 3pt shooting and you bringing up totally irrelevant point to the arguement. Get a life 🤡🤡🤡
“I was at the game, you weren’t” isn’t an argument. What do you see in a game physically that I can’t see from my computer/TV screen? Especially if we’re talking about what’s happening on the court.
WHEN YOU'RE FAVORITE NBA PLAYER CAN ALMOST GO FOR 30 WITH THE OFF HAND... NOW THEY ARE ON LARRY'S LEVEL 👑
That truly dosent matter. Could they shoot from the logo like Steph?
@@moneymoney3235 bird could.. not as consistently. I'll say Steph is the greatest 3 point shooter ever.. STILL not a top ten player, but maybe a top15-20.. Larry Bird is a top FIVE player and shot 50/40/90 TWICE, Steph only did that ONCE
@@soramirez5473 Larry bird is not a top 5 player 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤦🏾♂️😂🤦🏾♂️
LeBron is left handed.
@@zachnantz5304 he not playing the game with just his left. Look it up when Bird dropped 30 using his off hand.
I really like his podcast, but JJ gets way to emotional for this talking head stuff. He gets so angry and emo and loses composure and I have to turn it off.
A "heated debate" about sports. Big yawn........
Not a Curry fan, I don't find shooting a 3 ball the majority of the time appealing.
Get so emotional every time he's on guess that's for his podcast
Urgh where is the rest of this!!
Mad dog is that kid who plays COD trying to tell actual veterans best combat tactics
When I see Reddick on ESPN I immediately change the channel.
Jj has no clue how physical it was. I’m 53 and my sons and their friends ask me to compare the old guy with modern players. They all could compete but the physicality then was off the charts. They go mugged.
JJ thinks he is better than bird , he won nothing in his career, in college and the nba , but he goes on stats not championships, another Woke Athlete, his disrespect is beyond belief to Mad dog
Why do people who never played the game at a high level insist on thinking that they know more than someone who had success at the highest level? Like bruh pipe down
Mad Dog is just a troll lol
Jj Hold this L
Larry Bird is better than Steph in terms of all time ranking but clearly Steph is a better 3 point shooter.
Arguable, especially now that Steph has more rings than Larry. But I probably agree with you... It'll be interesting to see where people rank Steph when all is said and done, especially if he were to win another ring or two.
No he's not. Steph Curry is lightyears beyond LB.
@@Oioisavaloy he’s really not. Bird a better passer, defender, rebounder and can argue had no weaknesses in his game
@@BoskoShabazz and yet Steph is better…
@@Oioisavaloy whatever you say
the pace was slow and there was a lot of pounding in the game, that takes away a lot of energy from players, it's definitely slower for sure. When you take that pounding back and forth, you need to work on shoulder more, you need to work on core more. Now you see not so wide shoulders player like Klay Thompson becomes absolutely great, hard to imagine that back in the day.
That being said, there is absolutely no way possible that previous generation has better 3 point shooters. Shooting is a simple math, made/attempt. You can make a point about why they dont shoot as much, but that's irrelevant to how good they are.
@osamabinladenssecondgirlfr4241 Using 3pt contest as an argument, lol. That's pretty dumb of you
Larry Bird >>>>> Steph Curry
Not in 3pt shooting, no
Larry Bird literally didn’t have a 3 point line in grade school, high school and college and the first year the nba had it was his rookie year. And he literally opened up the game with the volume he shot and the percentage. In this regard JJ doesn’t know what he is talking about. By his standards, Dame Lillard is a better scorer than Kobe since he averaged more for his career and shot a better percentage…. Like c’mon JJ, let’s not ignore context
Silly season starts once NFL ends
When guys starts to use "you wasnt alive so u cant talk" = i saw once 40 years ago and neglect anything but what i chose to remember myself. Dont even wanna rewatch it prob
I just wish that the NFL would stop shoving the stupid backstabbing chiefs on St Louis networks
The game was different. If you shot the ball from 3 too often your coach would sit you down for low percentage play. I guarantee you if Bird played in an era like today where the 3 is so important he would become one of the best at it.
The 3 was JJ's biggest weapon. If he played in the '70s it wouldn't be available to him. Would he still be able to make the team? Maybe. But it's not like he was ever an all-star when the 3 was big.
It's just silly to make the comparison
Love how people talk to JJ like he’s a child like “mf yeah your only view is courtside, I watched Curry while playing on the court”
He watch Curry instead of playing
I never realized Duke could turn out such a high level of nitwittery. Isn't Duke supposed to be a school for some really very smart people? I guess they make exceptions for people who fail to recognize the best player to have ever played the game, black or white.
old talking head thinks you have to actually see it with your own eyes and thats why hes right lol
I hate when old heads say that watching a full game in 84 is different than WATCHING THE SAME GAME on RUclips 30 yrs later ITS THE SAME GAME
JJ was just comparing the 3 point shooting percentage of Larry Bird to other 3 point shooters. Statistics prove that Larry Bird is not in the top 5 of 3 point shooters as far as made percentage is concerned. That is a fair comparison. JJ did say Larry Bird is one of the greatest shooters of all time but that his 3 point shooting percentage is below others. This point is further emphasized when it is stated that the 3 point shot is contested more now than it was in the 1980's. Further confirming that today's players with a higher percentage made of 3 pointers are better 3 point shooters than Larry Bird.
JJ Redick should be fired from ESPN, his constant disrespect to the Legends. Hand checking meaning making your opponent move to a direction you want him to! How many fist fights did Larry Bird have..
If JJ Redick wants to argue who’s a better 3-point shooter, fine. However, he’s really saying it’s more physical now than it was in the 80s??? How many players flop today compared to the 80s? Go watch the tape JJ. Larry Bird would literally laugh at these pros today
Let’s ban the word Physicality. I’m tired of these old heads running to that word.
Old heads act like ESPN Classic didn’t exist, and RUclips and Google doesn’t currently. Watch the games from the 70s and 80s yourself. It wasn’t all that more physical aside from the occasional hard foul.
The current era is always better because the game is always evolving. 15-20 years from now, it'll be the same. The 90s and 80s guys and their fans are just always defensive.
Dog is nuts. Just off the top of my head Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, Steve Kerr, Steve Nash, Draven Petrovic Klay Thompson and Steph were all way better 3 point shooters than Bird
That’s just called ageism.