"... these turned out to be unfortunate whales"... that's an understatement. I'd consider getting torpedoed in the park on my way to grab lunch "Unfortunate" too...
From the title I almost assumed that it was a lone German U-boat, manned by 60-70 year olds that had somehow remained hidden for nearly 40 years lol imagine.
Gospel truth, I`ve had a pint today with an old mate Mick Hamilton, a friend at school and down our local colliery where we both worked. Tired of the dark dangerous coal mine he signed up in the Navy and after a six month tour docked in Gibraltar on their way back to Blighty only to be diverted to the Falklands, he was onboard the HMS Sheffield the first RN ship to be sunk. I recall his father being called out of the mine by our control centre and being told to make his way to Plymouth to find out if his only son had survived the sinking, which he obviously had, he`s retired today after reaching the rank of Chief Petty Officer. A good friend and a fine chap too I might and may we enjoy many more pints together also.
Please pass on my thanks to Mick Hamilton. I was too young for the Falklands I joined the UK Army in 1984. He is a hero and we are grateful for hia service.
RIP to the big benevolent whale who probably heard the screws of that torpedo in a way humans cannot understand. Never thought about large marine mammals as casualties of combat. Excellent as always Dr. Felton.
Unfortunately, marine animals come off poorly any time a navy is active. Even sonar during training can cause whales to bleed from eyes and ears and, it's thought, be a primary reason for beaching themselves. Fish may die and float to the surface.
Modern wars are generally horrible for nature. As technology advances, the threats to nature escalate further. Wars before modern guns and explosives, like about pre-1500, had far less impact because when you fought, you went with a sword or bow and it was much less likely for you to accidentally murder wildlife with those. Of course, there were still catapults and trebuchets, but still the overall ability for war to cause mass collateral devastation was significantly lower. No one really seems to think of these things and all the crimes humanity casually commits and ignores. What you do see apparently does not exist to people.
That submarine captain was a brilliant commander. Despite being hampered by faulty equipment and useless torpedoes he still persisted in his mission and safely made it back to port, beating the best efforts at hunting his sub down.
it appears that the professional Argentinian warfighter is someone to take seriously I wish none had to loose their lives or on our side either of course and from this the I have learnt Whales had a tough time too.
Reminds me of the early WW2 US sub commanders experience with their torpedoes. One of them complained bitterly that the only thing they were good for was alerting the enemy of the presence of the submarine. The torpedoes would either run deep and thus not explode or would hit the targeted ship and not explode, that is if the torpedo did explode prematurely.
Also proved very useful because he helped show the British that they were not even competent at the one mission they were still training for in 1982, that of anti-submarine warfare. Most every ship at the Falklands had been progressively "optimized" to hunt the Red Navy's submarines, with anti-surface and air-defense roles being handed over to the United States Navy. One cheap Argentinian submarine with a smart skipper proved just how overconfident the Royal Navy was and so actually probably did more to help Britain's defense than previous "Ministerial discussions" ever did.
@@genericpersonx333 Utter blarney. The RN was and still is one of the very top ASW navies. What occurred merely shows the complexity of ASW and of Sub vs. Surface ship. (old ASW guy). p.s. One of the limiting factors for the RN was limited/no Maritime Patrol Support from the Nimrods due to distance from shore airfields.
The submarine commander deserves some commendation for special ability to evade several enemies and manage to survive the war despite its faulty weapons.
And to think that when the guy finally manages to acquire a target and launch a torp, it ends up being a whale. I can imagine him tossing the by-then-nonexistant keyboard and mouse across the entire sub.
@@hansvonmannschaft9062 a faulty torpedo or bomb happens a lot during war. So don't believe on American weapons propaganda. They are intended to make sales and get our money.
Hm. Can’t imagine a WW2 German U-Boat commander being so gaff-prone. Scoring a duck while in command of a stealth warshipiIn such a target-rich environment, I think he was lucky not to be court-martialled.
My dad worked with one of the sailors that was on board the San Luis during it's opration in the war. This video is a pretty accurate representantion of what he told my dad, especially the part about setting on the sea floor and shutting everything down. He also told my dad they managed to score a couple of hits on british vessels but torpedos failed to detonate. This video pretty much sums up the experiencie of argentine troops in the war. Brave troops with old or faulty equipment.
The Falklands war was 40 years ago almost to the month. 40 years ago I was 18 but it feels like it was only a couple of years ago, I remember the TV broadcasts about it. Good video as per usual Dr Felton, well researched and a great tribute to the memory of our lads who fell and forever remain on that island.
I was a bit younger but also remember it quite well. We were living in Chile at the time. Chileans were worried, Argentina, frustrated by the failure at Falklands, turn to Chile in aggression to mask said failure.
Doesn't seem like 40 years. I was 19 and was watching it on cable tv in California. I was glad that Galtieri failed and was removed from office. Also happy the Falkland residents were liberated. The USA was helping the British with satellite intel.
Not only was I serving on HMS Alacrity when San Luis attacked us, I was also on HMS Boxer when the film footage between 9:38 and 10:39 was filmed. It was filmed for a documentary called "BOXER", narrated by Michael Hordern. (Although Boxer [a batch 2 Type 22 frigate] didn't go to the Falklands two batch 1 Type 22's did, so the footage fits quite nicely). In recent years the Captain of the San Luis, Captain Fernando Azcueta, and the Captain of HMS Alacrity, Commander Chris Craig, have met and discussed this incident. They are still in regular correspondence as friends.
Yes indeed. I am close to a friend of Azcueta and I know both met. I did some artwork for a recent book on British ASW during the malvinas/Falklands war, published in the UK. Have you been in contact with anybody regarding it? Thanks!
@@docdr7199 Yes it is allowed. I was not criticising the use of the footage but stating for general information (plus was proud to have a dual connection with the topic).
One thing I love about the channel is that he picks the often forgotten stories of history. I never would have known or guessed that the last U-boat attack was in 1982 and not 1945. Many thanks to Mark Felton.
Interesting fact: The Belgrano was a US ship the Phoenix - which survived to attack on Pearl Harbour unscathed and in many actions in the Pacific - it earned the nickname 'the luckiest ship in the US navy' - it's a cruel world.
Yes She deserved better. I was 14 yo in 1982, 3 seniors students from my school, were drafted for military service, and served on the Belgrano at the moment of the attack by HMS Conqueror, On of them was KIA.
It seems to me that if the torpedos had been workign correctly, the San Luis, in spite of her age and decrepitude, would have caused considerable damage. It just goes to show that in the Sub vs Surface match-up, even an older boat is a very, very serious threat.
Not a decrepit sub, the ARA San Luis was a U209 type ship commissioned by mid 70's (as it was the ARA Salta, unfit for combat sail due to motor axis relates noises) As with the HMS Conqueror, wire guide torpedoes were not absolutely reliable (Conqueror used traditional ones in its attack on ARA Belgrano) The WWII subs still in restricted service in this time were ARA Santiago del Estero (never left port) and ARA Santa Fe, destroyed at the Georgias
Not crazy enough, named U-Hai and U-Hecht in Bundesmarine service U-Hai sunk again in the 60s (only the Smut survied) and was raised from the Seabed a 2nd time, later they scraped both submarines.
I think it’s important to remember how deadly U-Boats were throughout History. A total of 12,850,815 tons of shipping were sunk by U-Boats really showcasing why they were used extensively up until later. Thanks for this quality video as always Dr. Felton.
not to mention, if it were chosen by the Germans to be produced in a bigger sum, instead of building the big naval fleet hitler wanted and instead went with Admiral Dönitz. they could've starved britian
Most of the problem lies with allied propaganda still permeating a few history books. One book I read ludicrously discounted the U-boat threat as a tiny part of the British fight for survival and barely devoted any pages to discussing it! Tell that to the men who perished on the HMS Riyal Oak when U47 sneaked into Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands....
Excellent presentation. My cousin lived in Plymouth, UK at the time, and he had a good friend, who was an officer on duty of one of those Royal Navy Ships under air attack in the Falklands by the Argentian airforce. My cousin said that even with the sophisticated radar displays showing the attack aircraft, the screen became so busy, that the officer left and went outside to see the aircraft positions to get better clarity of what was going on.
One of my late fathers brothers was one of the crew aboard the Norland. Not the first time he'd gone to war as he also served in the merchant navy in WW2 on the Arctic convoys.
That's the collateral damage that I struggle with the most during any conflict. I know it's horrible that civilians get caught up and it's truly a tragedy, but the animals are so innocent they don't ask for anything except food, shelter and a little love. It really bugs me when the u.s. Navy is out there doing their underwater experiments because they're killing untold amounts of sea life. Same with the Russians with their strapping of radio transmitters on the minke whales. The problem is they don't care.
@@dindu551 Died laughing? I don't get the joke. Beautiful, intelligent creatures being slaughtered thru no fault of their own, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's absolutely nothing funny about that in my opinion.
Not the Boys From Brazil, but the U-boat from Argentina! Great story Mark! I have to admit that I have always been fascinated by submarines. Maybe it was due to watching "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" as a child! Always such great historical content on your channel Mark!
Since 1982 as 13 year old Teens of India Kids, Children, Youngsters of India knew what the Royal Army, Navy and the Air force then and as on today it's capable of .............. ........................ A BIG ZERO NOTHING 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣👌👌👍👍👏👏👏👏😁😁😊😊😍😍
At the time, German electricians had a backronym for AEG, also a household appliance maker: "Aufmachen, Einstecken - Geht nicht." (Unpack, plug in - doesn't work.)
Always love the history of the Falklands war. I'm here in Canada but one of my nabours here is a veteran of the British navy during that time. I love listening to his stories. Cheers
The General Belgrano was the former USS Phoenix a Brooklyn Class Light Cruiser that was a Pearl Harbor Attack Survivor, that had been sold to Argentina in 1951.
My father served on the USS Phoenix in early 1944 as a gunners mate. He was very much surprised when I told him that it had been sunk during the Falkland's War.
Met an older gentleman at a donut shop who was.on the Phoenix on 12/7/41. Told me they steamed out of the harbor unit and looked for a fight. It was considered a good luck ship as it was never damaged during the whole war. When MacArthur returned to the Phillipines, as promised, he chose the Phoenix as the ship to carry him there. The old guy was upset that the Argentine Navy got her sunk.
Another gem buddy. The clips from the training videos were an especially delightful touch. You effectively display (yet again) the “Tit for Tat” game of technology and its proper application to a situation. Any situation. Thank you friend. I appreciate this and you.
It's interesting how the modern torpedoes the Argentines used caused their missions to fail. Whereas the Royal Navy sub used ww2 vintage torpedoes as they didn't trust their more modern torpedoes and their mission was successful.
@@hansybarra but the Argentinian ones were properly maintained, the german company came in and solved issues with their design and obviously the British ones were maintained however, the modern at the time Tigerfish wire guided ones were proved unreliable as well.
@@hansybarra Indeed! Even an AK, a weapon that supposedly doesn't malfunction will start to do so if you store it impropperly for a few years and don't maintain it (especially if you don't clean it after using corrossive ammo!) :(
my father was in the RN during this conflict and has recently returned from a reunion of that particular ships company and has had it confirmed that the the ship he was on at the time did mistakenly attack a whale with torpedoes. Also that a periscope was spotted in the water close by on another occasion but as to whether it was Argentine or another countries submarine is still a mystery.
@@tootlingturtle7254 it's just an unfortunate thing that happens, contact on sonar, no explanation as to what it is, could be enemy sub so get it before it gets you. I've heard stories of it happening in WW2 and whales being depth charged by both allied and axis powers. Any creature can be an unfortunate casualty of any conflict.
My old man was armed with a Lewis gun in early 1940, defending a pub in Essex. His gun team shot down a swan, they thought it was a 109.@@tootlingturtle7254
@Gee B not a cook but a stoker or Marine engineering mechanic if you prefer, in the engine room as a 1000lb bomb came through one side and went out the other without exploding.
Brilliant story thanks for sharing Mark Felton, I was 12 years old when this was happening and I can remember it like yesterday! At my school we had a visit from the guy that signed the surrender of the Argentinian forces and he showed us the Argentinian chiefs binoculars, crazy times.
I’m a second generation driller in the Oil and Gas industry. I worked with a senior engineer who was part of a team from Argo that was assigned to some exploration drilling in the Falklands. They succeeded. But we’re ordered soon after to shut everything down and pack up. Not long after the saber rattling started that led to the war. His opinion is that huge discover was an unspoken instigator.
A few years ago I saw a report that the local TV news FITV, had uploaded to RUclips that said drilling had found a lot of oil had been found in their territorial waters. But they said the locals should not get too excited as the oil price would have to go higher in the long term for development to be viable. But these days the Falklands Government is loaded, so the islands don't really need the oil money anyway.
I been following Dr. Felton since 2020 and i must say i didnt know anything about the sub warfare during the "Guerra de Malvinas" as we call it here in Argentina. I knew the country didnt have a modern navy, being the battleship Belgrano a clear example of it, but german U-boats? i didnt have any idea ... Anyways, there´s no doubt the Malvinas´s dispute is a delicate matter. This war was started thanks to a decaying military junta which killed thousands of Argentinians in the main land, not only in this war. Great work Mark, hugs from Argentina.
USS Phoenix (CL-46) was a light cruiser. Called the ship a battleship after the name changed to Belgrano doesn't do it service. At least use a wilder name like a battlestar or star destroyer.
This was the last true Air-Land-Sea battle since WWII in the Pacific. It served to reset concepts and theories of warfare right after the war ended. I didn't know about the u-boat contribution to Argentina's cause. This was a great commander and he did know how to use the right tactics not to mention his grittiness.
Right around the corner to me, are 2 former U-Boat docks, DORA 1 and DORA 2, when Germany occupied Trondheim. They were built so solidly that the local government didn't have the time and effort to take them apart, so they just repurposed them into offices and recreational spaces. Would be great to learn the history behind these docks.
Repurposing old U-boat docks as recreational facilities sounds like poetic justice for a nation that was invaded and occupied by a foreign power despite putting up an impressive amount of resistance against overwhelming odds.
Once again, the depth of knowledge and simplicity Prof. Felton delivers in these excellent videos are simply sublime. I feel sorry for the poor whales that took the brunt of a few mistakes by the Argentine Navy. Thank You, Professor Felton for more excellent content. We are in debt.
from what i've heard from some of the crew of the submarine the fire control systems failed and the torpedo's gyro's had been wrongly connected, I served aboard the hermes during the war and allthough it's been 40 years it's still very fresh in my memory
I know this video (great job by the way) was principally about the San Luis, but I was really taken by the sinking of the General Belgrano. This warship, originally christened the USS Phoenix (CL 46) in 1938, saw extensive and distinguished service in the Pacific throughout WWII starting right there at Pearl Harbor on December 7th. What a ignominious ending for warship with such a proud legacy. I'm sure the men that served on her during WWII were none too pleased when they learned of her sinking in 1982.
I’m wondering what would the ships in the navy think if they were alive? How would the phoenix feel fighting, for the United States Navy, fighting battle after battle against Imperial Japan. Hearing stories of the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all while hearing stories of the far away war in Europe of Britannia, France the Nazis. It survives WW2 only to die, 4 decades later fighting in the far south of the Atlantic, at the hands of the power they heard so much or perhaps so little about, the United Kingdom.
I found it incredible that the Belgrano was considered such a threat. Those ancient 6 inch guns out-ranged modern British warships? Anti-ship missiles were ineffective? And it was only a light cruiser!
@@zorkmid1083 there is speculation that the sinking of the belgrano by the UK was a move to show it's strenght more than anything. old as it was, the belgrano was still a flag ship. she was actually returning to port away from the islands, when it was hit. the plan actually worked, most argentine ships were called back to port after. another nuclear power RN submarine was following the argentine carrier but couldn't make a move as there were antisubmarine aircrafts in the area.
I'm so proud of myself for guessing the Falklands war as soon as I saw '82...great video Dr Felton! Interesting as all hell as usual, can never get enough of your channel
Love you Mark, but... The snorkel was for bringing air in for the diesel engines whilst at periscope depth, not for the exhaust. The exhaust was vented overboard further down the sail.
Very thrilling! U-boats were also blamed for dragging Brazil into WW2, after the sinking of several merchant ships along its vast Atlantic coast. Brazil's response was the so called FEB, short for Brazilian Expeditionary Force, deployed mostly to fight in Italy under US supervision. For most Brazilians, FEB members had a relevant role in Italy and are respected as national heros. To some, however, FEB was not more than a waste of precious life, ammo, crafts, etc. Unprepared the GIs were mostly considered a burden to American soldiers. So I wonder what is the real history behind Brazil's FEB... Dr. Mark, have you ever covered the subject on one of your videos? Thanks much! Cheers from Brazil.
Hey, you stepped up. No shame there. The Western Powers had centuries of warfighting and training experience. Nobody in their right mind would expect a level of technical skill from such a young and rural nation. You put your blood on the line and whether you were an asset or burden that blood is the same. Well Done, Sons of Dom Pedro I.
@@johannsebastianbach9003 I think you have it backwards. The issue was German U-boats sinking ships off the Brazilian coast, which is why Brazil first started letting US patrol aircraft operate from Brazil, and eventually joined the war after attacks on Brazillian shipping in Brazillian waters
A good video. As an Australian I remember that we had purchased HMS Invicible and were months away from delivery when the War started. We have never purchased another carrier which kind of disappointed a lot of military people I know.
The San Luis was a good ship with bad torpedoes. The whales were the real losers from the Falkland conflict. Didn't know the Argentinians employed AL Pacino as a submarine captain.
Here in Germany we have an old idiom for the make AEG: A = Auspacken -> unpack E = Einschalten -> switch on G = Geht nicht -> doesn't work I admit, that idiom does only work out with the German wording...
That aircraft carrier was bought from UK in 1948 by the Netherlands who renamed her to Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman (R 81). An engine room fire took her out of service in 1968. She was sold to Argentina in 1969 and renamed ARA Veinticinco de Mayo. Karel Doorman being the Dutch naval officer who during World War II commanded remnants of the short-lived American-British-Dutch-Australian Command naval strike forces in the Battle of the Java Sea. He was killed in action when his flagship HNLMS De Ruyter was torpedoed during the battle, having chosen to go down with the ship on the 28th of February 1942. My dad served on the Doorman for a while, the Doorman was nicknamed 'the fat boat' by Dutch mariners.
Dr Mark Felton, your research is usually impeccable but this is the second time that I have tried to correct you when you say "the Royal Navy only sent Nuclear powered Submarines to the Falkland Islands during the 1982 conflict!" But the Royal Navy also sent HMS Onyx, SSK 21 a diesel electric, conventional Oberon Class Submarine to the Falklands during the conflict. Remembering that this was 40 years ago, there's a lot of information on the Internet about it's roles and duties during the Falklands War.
Some of the Argentines fought bravely and professionally. They deserve credit for that and they should not be blamed for poor high level leadership. B, (UK)
Thank you for your kind words. I' ll dare to say that almost all of our combatants have done a good job. Specially the Air Force and Naval Aviation. Have a nice day.
When the Antelope was in Long Beach, CA in 1978 was on a reserve cruise. The crew hosted us in the "pub," where we enjoyed John Courage in a can (quite good) and traded souvenirs. I often wonder how many of the lads I met were still inboard that fateful day in 1982.
Absolutely fascinating and thanks for casting some light on Germany's Type XXI And Type XXII subs, their postwar submarine production, and the Falklands War.
Everything seemed to be "a little to late to help the Germans", the V2, the Me262, the King Tiger, Hitler shooting himself etc etc. .I don't know how you keep digging up these captivating, informative and off the wall topics for your vids Mark but keep it coming. Greetings and thanks from a Cornish in Canada.
the saddest part about the falklands war is that it really fucked Argentina's international relations. They didn't even manage to take back the "Malvinas" as they call them. Just another pointless war started by some politician to make some pointless political statement so people vote for him next term.
It is funny how british in northern hemisphere, some 8 thousand miles away, pretend that islands taken from a young nation not able to defend them, are rightfully british, these islands are just in fron of argentina, not the uk
Mr. Felton, you had your facts to the point. I knew what happened because one of the crewmen in the San Luis and I have a friend in common. Not only he did mention the frustration after the launches, because at the beginning everything looked _"dandy",_ only to watch the torps _go off to live on an island somewhere,_ a second later, but also the level of brainwrecking stress that came from avoiding the ships above for almost a week. On another note, I think I remember HMS Conqueror's Capt. deciding to use WWII torps, because _"they should be fine against a WWII ship"._ I always wondered, though, what was a shiny new nuclear sub doing carrying WWII ordnance. Cheers.
Probably had a lot in surplus after the war and after removing torpedo launchers from ships like the Belfast and other ww2 ships, so with the subs being the only ships capable of using them might as well put them to use. Even ww2 ordnance is still probably overkill if you ever needed to do some commerce raiding and is cheaper too.
The M1911a1 is a WW1 era weapon that's still around, not to mention Ma Deuce (M2) a pre WW2 weapon that is still on active duty. The German M3 machine gun is merely a rechambered MG42. Just because a weapon is old doesn't mean it is useless.
@@jefferyindorf699Hey there! I think there's been a misunderstanding, I'm not pondering about those torps because of their design, but because of their age proper. Sure old small arms do happen to be around and work just fine, and their modern, rather recently manufactured ones do just as well, but in the case of heavy, complex ordnance like torpedoes, why bring 40 y/o ones? An analogue example would be, if you were to choose your quality designed rifle ammo, where quality is not under question, would you use brand new, or 40 year old cartridges? 🙂 Cheers.
@@darman12able Probably. I also thought at some point that it could've been related to the fact that the British MoD was beginning to see its budget being reduced, so they had to make do with whatever was around and deemed reliable.
The Conquer carried Tigerfish wire guided torpedoes, and the old mark 18s. The TigerFish at that time was considered unreliable and had a smaller warhead than the mark 18. So a reliable older weapon with a much bigger warhead was used.
@Mark Felton Here's a fun fact I read from Tom Clancy's book "Submarine: A Guided Tour Inside a Nuclear Warship" when he interviewed a RN sub commander, the General Belgrano (ex-USS Phoenix) was sunk coincidentally with the same pattern of torpedo hits as her sister ship USS Helena during WW2, which also tore off her bow and blew a gaping hole amidships in the machinery room.
Imagine that? All of those guys looking like my OPA screaming ALARM!!!! Dr Felton could make anything interesting about then and now pure genius! I wish that after the world calms down you can come to NY when it is safe to do some lectures because, it would be awesome and you pick the topic! You have been one of the few that I have been following since the beginning and wish you did a voiceover on a movie! Stay safe and be well!
Love your Falklands series. I'm well in my 50s. So I still remember keenly watching the news daily. All things considered, it was somewhat evenly matched and a more conventional military conflict, unlike the GWOT we are so used to seeing for the last couple of decades or so.
@@ftc9258 that's strictly an American thing there's a lot other conflicts going on in the world that don't involve the American government directly like the global war on terror has
Excellent account of war at sea during the Faulklands conflict. The hunt of the San Luis was epic. I was never aware whales suffered collateral damage.
the snorkel is not designed to vent diesel exhaust, it is designed to draw in fresh air from the atmosphere to feed the diesel engines. the exhaust is forced out, usually through a diesel exhaust mast although it can be forced out through different hull valves depending on the configuration of the ventilation system and the facilities on board.
I remember as a child watching this on the news, and being impressed with all the high tech military equipment. I watch it now and turns out most of their ordinance was left over from ww2
Once again, thank you Mark, for yet another great video, carefully researched and full of relevant information. On a less serious note .... I couldn't help thinking about a U Boat crewed by "The Boys From Brazil", wreaking havoc in 1982.
Very interesting read for this retired submariner. One small point though - submarine (and surface ship) speeds should be given in knots and distances in nautical miles (versus kph and km).
The problem with knots and nautical miles is that nobody outside of a select few has any idea what they mean. You may as well use bananas and astrological minutes.
Mark I love learning from your channel. Your skill at keeping history is essential to the future. Have you heard the story of u boat commander Otto von weddigen
likewise, bet the pre-war conversations in the war room went well...'they have a what!?... Well who bloody hell sold them one of them!?….Ohhh, Oh I See' 😂
The argentine navy and the royal navy had a good relationship before the war. The argentine comandos that spearheaded the invasion were trained by the SBS. If you look at pictures from the early days you can see them carrying the same modifiied Sterling smgs the SBS used.
Thank you Mark. Absolutely fascinating as usual. Note: "... unfortunate whales..." I must admit, your dry British humor makes your presentations all the more enjoyable. Cheers from the US!
@@r9kv753 So I googled it and found this. This doesn't account for the other whales Mark mentioned were hit, but at least 3... damn. "A British warship (HMS Brilliant) fired on and killed three whales during the Falklands War after mistaking them for enemy submarines."
Even though the San Luis failed to sink a British ship, she was still successful in diverting British resources to hunt down the submarine and also (possibly) keeping high valued assets out of some areas of operation. Hearing more details of this aspect would have been an interesting inclusion - to what effect did the San Luis affect/hamper the British campaign?
Reagan screwed Argentina, you know the treaty about outside force coming into Western Hémisphère. Argentina was the only nation that backed USA in the Bay of Pigs and sent a ship. However, I thank the UK for giving rugby, polo, field hockey and football. I forgot the railroad. Thank you.
I salute the brave men and women who fought in the Falklands war on both sides, but I pity the senseless losses our Cetacean friends had to endure due to faulty equipment.
I saw an interview with the C.O. of the marine detachment on South Georgia and he categorically denies that they surrendered. He said that they negotiated a ceasefire but never admitted surrender which was a hugely unpopular decision among his men.
Wiping my brow. I thought at the beginning you were saying that the Germans themselves were attacking the British task force. Whew. Still a superb, incredibly well researched video. One point, there has been much criticism of the sinking of the Belgrano as it was outside the exclusion zone. The exclusion zone was for international shipping, not Argentina. Hey, the UK was at war with her. Even if the Belgrano had been sunk in the Arctic, is still would have been ethically acceptable.
I really love your channel and content you produce. It is beautiful and enriching at the same time. The way you communicate is also very effective and very involving. The research which goes behind each and every video is really praise worthy. We need more quality content creators like you. Keep doing what you do ✨
It would be an interesting video on the raising of the Type 23’s from the seabed if there is any information regarding it. Anywhere we could find some material on it? Another great video, Mark!
U-2365 XXIII Scuttled on 8 May 1945 in the Kattegat, north-west of Anholt island in position 56.51N, 11.49E. Post-war information The boat was raised in June 1956. Commissioned as U-Hai (S 170) in the German Federal Navy 15 Aug 1957. The boat sank at 1854hrs on 14 Sept, 1966 in the North Sea, in position 55.15N, 04.22E, after taking in water. Raised on 19 Sept, 1966 from 47 meters depth and broken up. U-2367 XXIII Sank 5 May 1945 near Schleimünde, in approximate position 55.00N, 11.00E, after a collision with an unidentified German U-boat. Post-war information Raised in August 1956. Renamed U-Hecht (pike) and served in the German Federal Navy from 1 Oct, 1957. Stricken on 30 Sep, 1968 and broken up at Kiel in 1969. U-2540 XXI Scuttled on 4 May 1945 near the Flensburg lightship. Post-war information Raised in 1957. Became the research vessel Wilhelm Bauer in the Bundesmarine, 1 Sept 1960. Transferred to the Deutsches Schiffahrtsmuseum (German Maritime Museum) at Bremerhaven in 1984.
G'day Mark, Excellent video. I remember the declaration of hostilities and the UK's task force leaving for the South Atlantic. I knew then that the Argentines were in big trouble and probably didn't stand a chance. Although, I soon realised that their Air Force punched way above its tiny weight and that it got a 'bit hairy' there for a while. Many UK servicemen were sent to an early grave. While I saw that the match up was a lot closer than I'd first envisaged; my faith in the UK's combined forces would out. Until this brilliant video, I didn't fully realise how close that far off conflict was. As I mentioned below to another commenter, for the UK’s forces, it was a combination of relentless, professional training; dedication, discipline and teamwork that prevailed over a largely conscripted Argentine force who fought well but whose heart was not in it. With the possible exception of WW2, there is no such thing as a 'good war'. The Argentine war against UK territory was not good, apart from the outcome. Was it necessary? Probably not. However, once the Argentines took up arms and invaded British islands, the die was cast. Love her or loathe her, PM Thatcher had little choice but to respond in kind. I clearly recall the illogical, over the top, public criticism of Mrs Thatcher's decision to mobilise that the US made clear to her and the world. Sure, the Americans made quite an effort to pursue diplomatic solutions, however, they should have done all that privately while readying US forces to assist, on the ground, on the sea and in the air at the Falklands. Historically, the US goes to war over a violent 'fridge opening', yet one got the distinct feeling that the US was ready to hang Mrs Thatcher and her task force 'out to dry'. Perhaps I am totally wrong as, of course, I wasn't privy to the real intelligence position. That said, a loud and clear, good old bit of serious US sabre rattling very well might have caused the Argentines to reconsider their position. Far too many good people died in that conflict; and it strikes me that a highly robust, negative, public statement to the Argentines by the POTUS may have averted unwanted deaths on both sides. Still, that was all 40 years ago [isn't that depressing] and although, in that period, Argentina has made weak noises about still wanting Las Malvinas, you'll note that another invasion by them has never really been on the cards. Thanks, Mark, for reminding us all of that sad and cynical episode in Argentina's past. Now, we've got another European war on our hands... have the leaders of the 'modern' world not learned a thing since 'The Great War'? It appears that is the case. Mr Putin should heat up the samovar and sit down with Mr Zelenskiy, have a cup of tea to talk about peace and the sovereign/human rights of independent nations. Cheers, BH
And if the media had not reported the cruise missiles were not exploding, more British lives may have been saved. (They took out ship's, because the hot rocket exhaust set the ships on fire) However, many lessons were learned about the ships, like: aluminium alloy burns on it's own, painting of the cable runs to the bulkhead wall causes fires to spread to the next compartment, lino produces toxic smoke, carpet on the floor helps stop water sloshing and acts as a fire barrier, Instead of full RADAR rotation, a back & forth sweep can be more effective etc etc. There is also the very interesting story of a Vulcan Bomber. Also an interesting story of the orders of the submarine Captain, that questioned the legitimacy of firing the torpedoes, which led to the sinking of the General Belgrano. Also at that time, the British were winding down their forces. Perhaps it was Britain's 'signal' to the rest of the world that Great Britain was not 'weak'??? Who knows? Regardless, it would have been better to have gone through the United Nations and settled it that way. The British Parliament obviously did not want to go that route. Yes, if Mr Putin wants to 'save face' and not go further down the 'Black Hole', a sit down drink of tea is a great idea. After going to the ANZAC services, there is a lot of talk among attending members, about not learning the lessons of the past.
The crew reversed the polarity of the guidance system of the SST-4. That is why they failed. Btw, there are still quite a few (58 apparently) 209s in active service.
Nobody ever considers the Whale casualties in war. Thank you Mark for highlighting this oft overlooked tragedy.
I agree with you. Poor whales 😔
Let's hope they missed the bowl of petunias...
How many Greenpeace ships were lost during the war?
"... these turned out to be unfortunate whales"... that's an understatement. I'd consider getting torpedoed in the park on my way to grab lunch "Unfortunate" too...
@@jack_L858 ....oh no...not again....
From the title I almost assumed that it was a lone German U-boat, manned by 60-70 year olds that had somehow remained hidden for nearly 40 years lol imagine.
I feel like that would've been less embarrassing than what actually happened.
When i saw the date and that it was a u boat i thought some nazis that escaped in it and went to Argentina decided to fight in the war
@@javcar1238 Martin Bormann lol
Or the Frank Sinatra flick where they robbed a cruise ship..🤣
That would be an absolute killer book/movie/game plot
Gospel truth, I`ve had a pint today with an old mate Mick Hamilton, a friend at school and down our local colliery where we both worked. Tired of the dark dangerous coal mine he signed up in the Navy and after a six month tour docked in Gibraltar on their way back to Blighty only to be diverted to the Falklands, he was onboard the HMS Sheffield the first RN ship to be sunk.
I recall his father being called out of the mine by our control centre and being told to make his way to Plymouth to find out if his only son had survived the sinking, which he obviously had, he`s retired today after reaching the rank of Chief Petty Officer.
A good friend and a fine chap too I might and may we enjoy many more pints together also.
Huzzah! To both of you chaps! May your lives be as long as you wish!
Please pass on my thanks to Mick Hamilton. I was too young for the Falklands I joined the UK Army in 1984. He is a hero and we are grateful for hia service.
RIP to the big benevolent whale who probably heard the screws of that torpedo in a way humans cannot understand. Never thought about large marine mammals as casualties of combat.
Excellent as always Dr. Felton.
Why does mother nature always come off second best?
Unfortunately, marine animals come off poorly any time a navy is active. Even sonar during training can cause whales to bleed from eyes and ears and, it's thought, be a primary reason for beaching themselves. Fish may die and float to the surface.
being as Whales use Echolocation and subs have sonar that poor whale definitely detected that torpedo, and had no idea wtf was coming for him. XD
Oddly enough, I was reading a report about Australians on a WW1 troopship who shot up a pod of whales while on their way to England in October 1918.
Modern wars are generally horrible for nature. As technology advances, the threats to nature escalate further. Wars before modern guns and explosives, like about pre-1500, had far less impact because when you fought, you went with a sword or bow and it was much less likely for you to accidentally murder wildlife with those. Of course, there were still catapults and trebuchets, but still the overall ability for war to cause mass collateral devastation was significantly lower. No one really seems to think of these things and all the crimes humanity casually commits and ignores. What you do see apparently does not exist to people.
That submarine captain was a brilliant commander. Despite being hampered by faulty equipment and useless torpedoes he still persisted in his mission and safely made it back to port, beating the best efforts at hunting his sub down.
it appears that the professional Argentinian warfighter is someone to take seriously I wish none had to loose their lives or on our side either of course and from this the I have learnt Whales had a tough time too.
That story alone would make for a riveting movie
Reminds me of the early WW2 US sub commanders experience with their torpedoes. One of them complained bitterly that the only thing they were good for was alerting the enemy of the presence of the submarine. The torpedoes would either run deep and thus not explode or would hit the targeted ship and not explode, that is if the torpedo did explode prematurely.
Also proved very useful because he helped show the British that they were not even competent at the one mission they were still training for in 1982, that of anti-submarine warfare. Most every ship at the Falklands had been progressively "optimized" to hunt the Red Navy's submarines, with anti-surface and air-defense roles being handed over to the United States Navy. One cheap Argentinian submarine with a smart skipper proved just how overconfident the Royal Navy was and so actually probably did more to help Britain's defense than previous "Ministerial discussions" ever did.
@@genericpersonx333 Utter blarney. The RN was and still is one of the very top ASW navies. What occurred merely shows the complexity of ASW and of Sub vs. Surface ship. (old ASW guy). p.s. One of the limiting factors for the RN was limited/no Maritime Patrol Support from the Nimrods due to distance from shore airfields.
The submarine commander deserves some commendation for special ability to evade several enemies and manage to survive the war despite its faulty weapons.
And to think that when the guy finally manages to acquire a target and launch a torp, it ends up being a whale. I can imagine him tossing the by-then-nonexistant keyboard and mouse across the entire sub.
@@hansvonmannschaft9062 a faulty torpedo or bomb happens a lot during war. So don't believe on American weapons propaganda. They are intended to make sales and get our money.
... all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
Literalmente Galtieri le agarró las nalguinas a la Thatcher😹
Hm. Can’t imagine a WW2 German U-Boat commander being so gaff-prone. Scoring a duck while in command of a stealth warshipiIn such a target-rich environment, I think he was lucky not to be court-martialled.
My dad worked with one of the sailors that was on board the San Luis during it's opration in the war. This video is a pretty accurate representantion of what he told my dad, especially the part about setting on the sea floor and shutting everything down. He also told my dad they managed to score a couple of hits on british vessels but torpedos failed to detonate.
This video pretty much sums up the experiencie of argentine troops in the war. Brave troops with old or faulty equipment.
Yeah, that is why they surrendered en masse, right? Because they were "brave"...
Brave, but insufficiently seasoned troops and faulty and/or ill maintained platforms and weaponry. *What could ever possibly go wrong?!!*
Faulty torpedos plagued the Germans in WW2 for a period of time too!
Even we Americans had trouble with faulty torpedoes at the start of the war.
Putin didn't study this little war, that's for sure !
The Falklands war was 40 years ago almost to the month. 40 years ago I was 18 but it feels like it was only a couple of years ago, I remember the TV broadcasts about it. Good video as per usual Dr Felton, well researched and a great tribute to the memory of our lads who fell and forever remain on that island.
I was a bit younger but also remember it quite well. We were living in Chile at the time. Chileans were worried, Argentina, frustrated by the failure at Falklands, turn to Chile in aggression to mask said failure.
@@daszieher I hope you and your family got through it unscathed. Chile was a scapegoat for Argentinians' lame excuses.
Doesn't seem like 40 years. I was 19 and was watching it on cable tv in California. I was glad that Galtieri failed and was removed from office. Also happy the Falkland residents were liberated. The USA was helping the British with satellite intel.
@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN Good ole USA, always dependable!
@@ZER0ZER0SE7EN the USA refused to allow the British airforce use its bases and advised them to allow the Falklands to remain in Argentinian hands
Not only was I serving on HMS Alacrity when San Luis attacked us, I was also on HMS Boxer when the film footage between 9:38 and 10:39 was filmed. It was filmed for a documentary called "BOXER", narrated by Michael Hordern. (Although Boxer [a batch 2 Type 22 frigate] didn't go to the Falklands two batch 1 Type 22's did, so the footage fits quite nicely).
In recent years the Captain of the San Luis, Captain Fernando Azcueta, and the Captain of HMS Alacrity, Commander Chris Craig, have met and discussed this incident. They are still in regular correspondence as friends.
Yup - it is pretty obvious that some of the footage is of ships that weren't commissioned in 1982 but surely some poetic licence is allowed.👍
Yes indeed. I am close to a friend of Azcueta and I know both met. I did some artwork for a recent book on British ASW during the malvinas/Falklands war, published in the UK. Have you been in contact with anybody regarding it? Thanks!
@@docdr7199 Yes it is allowed. I was not criticising the use of the footage but stating for general information (plus was proud to have a dual connection with the topic).
@@andreaassanelli4117 What's the name of the book ? Has it been published yet ?
@@andreaassanelli4117 Great, thanks a lot !
So interesting. That's why I love this channel. Dr. Felton gives just enough information so the layman can understand instead of getting lost.
Glad people appreciate this man's work 🙏
One thing I love about the channel is that he picks the often forgotten stories of history. I never would have known or guessed that the last U-boat attack was in 1982 and not 1945. Many thanks to Mark Felton.
Layman??!!!!
@@puromichoacan8339 a man who gets laid
Modern torps are useless. Belgrano took a 1920s torpedo. An entire naval war happened in Ukraine and zero ships were sunk.
Interesting fact: The Belgrano was a US ship the Phoenix - which survived to attack on Pearl Harbour unscathed and in many actions in the Pacific - it earned the nickname 'the luckiest ship in the US navy' - it's a cruel world.
I guess the day it left the US Navy it lost the right to be that lucky.
It's a maritime superstition that if a ship is renamed it's bad luck. The Argentinians changed the name and so it sunk in their hands
The sub Santa Fe was originally USS Catfish , SS-339.
@@JBGARINGAN That only works if yoiu believe in pregnant married virgins riding donkeys at christmas
Yes She deserved better. I was 14 yo in 1982, 3 seniors students from my school, were drafted for military service, and served on the Belgrano at the moment of the attack by HMS Conqueror, On of them was KIA.
It seems to me that if the torpedos had been workign correctly, the San Luis, in spite of her age and decrepitude, would have caused considerable damage. It just goes to show that in the Sub vs Surface match-up, even an older boat is a very, very serious threat.
That is of course, if the Royal Navy's countermeasures had failed. They don't just sit there waiting to be torpedoed you know.....
@@peterstubbs5121 if torpedo managed to hit towed decoy without human guidance i am pretty sure it would hit ship towing it if wire did't break
@@hphp31416 which is EXACTLY what decoys are for you fool.
Not a decrepit sub, the ARA San Luis was a U209 type ship commissioned by mid 70's (as it was the ARA Salta, unfit for combat sail due to motor axis relates noises)
As with the HMS Conqueror, wire guide torpedoes were not absolutely reliable (Conqueror used traditional ones in its attack on ARA Belgrano)
The WWII subs still in restricted service in this time were ARA Santiago del Estero (never left port) and ARA Santa Fe, destroyed at the Georgias
"...RAISED FROM THE SEABED and used as training vessels???" There's a crazy story there of these vessels being raised.
Also some video footage on here of that happening
Not crazy enough, named U-Hai and U-Hecht in Bundesmarine service U-Hai sunk again in the 60s (only the Smut survied) and was raised from the Seabed a 2nd time, later they scraped both submarines.
"Get in, it's fine. We cleaned it out"
I think it’s important to remember how deadly U-Boats were throughout History. A total of 12,850,815 tons of shipping were sunk by U-Boats really showcasing why they were used extensively up until later. Thanks for this quality video as always Dr. Felton.
not to mention, if it were chosen by the Germans to be produced in a bigger sum, instead of building the big naval fleet hitler wanted and instead went with Admiral Dönitz. they could've starved britian
Common knowledge
Most of the problem lies with allied propaganda still permeating a few history books. One book I read ludicrously discounted the U-boat threat as a tiny part of the British fight for survival and barely devoted any pages to discussing it! Tell that to the men who perished on the HMS Riyal Oak when U47 sneaked into Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands....
@@wrnchhead76 creampuff
But they suffered from 75% loss rate (793 U-boats sank in WWII)
Excellent presentation. My cousin lived in Plymouth, UK at the time, and he had a good friend, who was an officer on duty of one of those Royal Navy Ships under air attack in the Falklands by the Argentian airforce. My cousin said that even with the sophisticated radar displays showing the attack aircraft, the screen became so busy, that the officer left and went outside to see the aircraft positions to get better clarity of what was going on.
One of my late fathers brothers was one of the crew aboard the Norland. Not the first time he'd gone to war as he also served in the merchant navy in WW2 on the Arctic convoys.
so your uncle?
My Grandfather also served aboard the Arctic convoys as a gunner.
@@hatboxful nothing says serving the cause of liberty more than giving communists weapons for free!
My grandad was on the arctic convoys too but in the RN. Said he'd never been so cold in his life.
@@Graymenn I was trying to not use the term paternal uncle in case people did not know what paternal was.
The amount of whales caught in the crossfire was truly unfortunate
I absolutely died laughing when I realized that whales were being routinely targeted inadvertently by both sides
Dont say that .. it pains me... it hurts so much
Wonderful, majestic creatures caught-up in the foolhardy desires of humans.
That's the collateral damage that I struggle with the most during any conflict. I know it's horrible that civilians get caught up and it's truly a tragedy, but the animals are so innocent they don't ask for anything except food, shelter and a little love. It really bugs me when the u.s. Navy is out there doing their underwater experiments because they're killing untold amounts of sea life. Same with the Russians with their strapping of radio transmitters on the minke whales. The problem is they don't care.
@@dindu551 Died laughing? I don't get the joke. Beautiful, intelligent creatures being slaughtered thru no fault of their own, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. There's absolutely nothing funny about that in my opinion.
Not the Boys From Brazil, but the U-boat from Argentina! Great story Mark! I have to admit that I have always been fascinated by submarines. Maybe it was due to watching "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" as a child! Always such great historical content on your channel Mark!
The unfortunate whales suffered abysmally during the Falklands War! Tremendous video Mark, thank you so much!
If only they had had seaman Jones in charge of the sonar......
@@notsureyou Jonesy could have figured it out!😁
Since 1982 as 13 year old Teens of India Kids, Children, Youngsters of India knew what the
Royal Army, Navy and the Air force then and as on today it's capable of .............. ........................
A BIG ZERO
NOTHING 😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣👌👌👍👍👏👏👏👏😁😁😊😊😍😍
@@r2gelfand he could tell those biologics from subs . . . "You are talking to a superior officer!" "No, merely a higher ranking one."
Not to mention the ecological damage caused by sending 23,800,000 tons of ships, with fuel
At the time, German electricians had a backronym for AEG, also a household appliance maker: "Aufmachen, Einstecken - Geht nicht." (Unpack, plug in - doesn't work.)
Interestingly, AEG built aircraft during WW1
AEG - Alles Ein Gammel.
I have an AEG washing machine.....now over 25 years old...solid as a rock. (Changed drum bearings about 10 years ago.)
Nice one
@@刀ひレレ bi-lingual humour! Nice
Always love the history of the Falklands war. I'm here in Canada but one of my nabours here is a veteran of the British navy during that time. I love listening to his stories. Cheers
I’d pay a large amount for a Felton book on The Falklands. A longer documentary would be great too.
Malvinas
How about a Felton book on the Invasion of Cyprus 1974 .....id buy it in an instant !!!
The General Belgrano was the former USS Phoenix a Brooklyn Class Light Cruiser that was a Pearl Harbor Attack Survivor, that had been sold to Argentina in 1951.
My father served on the USS Phoenix in early 1944 as a gunners mate. He was very much surprised when I told him that it had been sunk during the Falkland's War.
@@daviddittman1779 There was an effort before it was sunk to buy it back and make it a Museum Ship here in the US.
@@daviddittman1779 When did you tell him?
@@krashd About 2005, when I learned about it. It was about 5 years before he passed.
Met an older gentleman at a donut shop who was.on the Phoenix on 12/7/41. Told me they steamed out of the harbor unit and looked for a fight. It was considered a good luck ship as it was never damaged during the whole war. When MacArthur returned to the Phillipines, as promised, he chose the Phoenix as the ship to carry him there. The old guy was upset that the Argentine Navy got her sunk.
Another gem buddy. The clips from the training videos were an especially delightful touch. You effectively display (yet again) the “Tit for Tat” game of technology and its proper application to a situation. Any situation.
Thank you friend. I appreciate this and you.
Phenomenal research and presentation of an extremely interesting subject. How can your work be so good Mark? Thank you!
It’s so good because it’s plagiarized
@@cfranko1860 do you have any evidence on this?
@@cfranko1860 🤓
Yes, excellent.
Do you expect anything else
It's interesting how the modern torpedoes the Argentines used caused their missions to fail. Whereas the Royal Navy sub used ww2 vintage torpedoes as they didn't trust their more modern torpedoes and their mission was successful.
@Alex Snowden sometimes simpler is better. Fewer things that could go wrong after all
Proper maintenance makes the difference, doesn't matter if it old or modern.
@@hansybarra but the Argentinian ones were properly maintained, the german company came in and solved issues with their design and obviously the British ones were maintained however, the modern at the time Tigerfish wire guided ones were proved unreliable as well.
@@hansybarra Indeed! Even an AK, a weapon that supposedly doesn't malfunction will start to do so if you store it impropperly for a few years and don't maintain it (especially if you don't clean it after using corrossive ammo!) :(
You did hear the part about the homing torpedoes that hit WHALES, right?
Dziękujemy.
my father was in the RN during this conflict and has recently returned from a reunion of that particular ships company and has had it confirmed that the the ship he was on at the time did mistakenly attack a whale with torpedoes. Also that a periscope was spotted in the water close by on another occasion but as to whether it was Argentine or another countries submarine is still a mystery.
You’re telling me the Royal Navy iced a bunch of whales?
@@tootlingturtle7254 it's just an unfortunate thing that happens, contact on sonar, no explanation as to what it is, could be enemy sub so get it before it gets you. I've heard stories of it happening in WW2 and whales being depth charged by both allied and axis powers. Any creature can be an unfortunate casualty of any conflict.
My old man was armed with a Lewis gun in early 1940, defending a pub in Essex. His gun team shot down a swan, they thought it was a 109.@@tootlingturtle7254
@Gee B not a cook but a stoker or Marine engineering mechanic if you prefer, in the engine room as a 1000lb bomb came through one side and went out the other without exploding.
@Gee B what? Ahh yes it does. What, do expect the men arming the torp tubes and sonars just eat nothing?
Brilliant story thanks for sharing Mark Felton, I was 12 years old when this was happening and I can remember it like yesterday! At my school we had a visit from the guy that signed the surrender of the Argentinian forces and he showed us the Argentinian chiefs binoculars, crazy times.
Thanks!
I’m a second generation driller in the Oil and Gas industry. I worked with a senior engineer who was part of a team from Argo that was assigned to some exploration drilling in the Falklands. They succeeded. But we’re ordered soon after to shut everything down and pack up. Not long after the saber rattling started that led to the war. His opinion is that huge discover was an unspoken instigator.
here we are 40 years later, has there been any production?
@Gameplay Videos as far as I know, nobody has done any production down there.
@@WALTERBROADDUS it's being saved until the UK really needs it.
@@WozWozEre well with Russia cutting off gas to Poland; they might start thinking about new sources?
A few years ago I saw a report that the local TV news FITV, had uploaded to RUclips that said drilling had found a lot of oil had been found in their territorial waters. But they said the locals should not get too excited as the oil price would have to go higher in the long term for development to be viable. But these days the Falklands Government is loaded, so the islands don't really need the oil money anyway.
I been following Dr. Felton since 2020 and i must say i didnt know anything about the sub warfare during the "Guerra de Malvinas" as we call it here in Argentina. I knew the country didnt have a modern navy, being the battleship Belgrano a clear example of it, but german U-boats? i didnt have any idea ... Anyways, there´s no doubt the Malvinas´s dispute is a delicate matter. This war was started thanks to a decaying military junta which killed thousands of Argentinians in the main land, not only in this war.
Great work Mark, hugs from Argentina.
Thank you for your honest comment. Let's wish peace and harmony to all.
Respect sir from the UK.. 🇦🇷 🇬🇧
No delicate matter here. Try it again and the same response+ will be waiting.
USS Phoenix (CL-46) was a light cruiser. Called the ship a battleship after the name changed to Belgrano doesn't do it service. At least use a wilder name like a battlestar or star destroyer.
This was the last true Air-Land-Sea battle since WWII in the Pacific. It served to reset concepts and theories of warfare right after the war ended. I didn't know about the u-boat contribution to Argentina's cause. This was a great commander and he did know how to use the right tactics not to mention his grittiness.
Mark, you can really tell a story.
Right around the corner to me, are 2 former U-Boat docks, DORA 1 and DORA 2, when Germany occupied Trondheim. They were built so solidly that the local government didn't have the time and effort to take them apart, so they just repurposed them into offices and recreational spaces.
Would be great to learn the history behind these docks.
Great swimming pool in Trondheim, rich country Norge.
Repurposing old U-boat docks as recreational facilities sounds like poetic justice for a nation that was invaded and occupied by a foreign power despite putting up an impressive amount of resistance against overwhelming odds.
Let's hope my office doesn't sink!
Once again, the depth of knowledge and simplicity Prof. Felton delivers in these excellent videos are simply sublime. I feel sorry for the poor whales that took the brunt of a few mistakes by the Argentine Navy.
Thank You, Professor Felton for more excellent content. We are in debt.
From the video, it seems that both Nations had a quarrel with them whales for some reason.
Thank you Dr. Felton for another extremely well researched and presented video on the Falklands War.
Regards,
Anthony
from what i've heard from some of the crew of the submarine the fire control systems failed and the torpedo's gyro's had been wrongly connected, I served aboard the hermes during the war and allthough it's been 40 years it's still very fresh in my memory
I've read a couple of books on the Falklands war but neither mentioned ex German U boats being used. Great informative video.
I know this video (great job by the way) was principally about the San Luis, but I was really taken by the sinking of the General Belgrano. This warship, originally christened the USS Phoenix (CL 46) in 1938, saw extensive and distinguished service in the Pacific throughout WWII starting right there at Pearl Harbor on December 7th. What a ignominious ending for warship with such a proud legacy. I'm sure the men that served on her during WWII were none too pleased when they learned of her sinking in 1982.
I’m wondering what would the ships in the navy think if they were alive? How would the phoenix feel fighting, for the United States Navy, fighting battle after battle against Imperial Japan. Hearing stories of the Nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, all while hearing stories of the far away war in Europe of Britannia, France the Nazis. It survives WW2 only to die, 4 decades later fighting in the far south of the Atlantic, at the hands of the power they heard so much or perhaps so little about, the United Kingdom.
I found it incredible that the Belgrano was considered such a threat. Those ancient 6 inch guns out-ranged modern British warships? Anti-ship missiles were ineffective? And it was only a light cruiser!
@@zorkmid1083 there is speculation that the sinking of the belgrano by the UK was a move to show it's strenght more than anything. old as it was, the belgrano was still a flag ship. she was actually returning to port away from the islands, when it was hit. the plan actually worked, most argentine ships were called back to port after. another nuclear power RN submarine was following the argentine carrier but couldn't make a move as there were antisubmarine aircrafts in the area.
@@zorkmid1083So she was not refitted at all.
I find that hard to believe.
@@lordeden2732 It's believable if the country that bought it didn't have the money or facilities for a full refit.
Thank you Mark! I was a young lad during that , joining the merchant Navy! Memories..
I'm so proud of myself for guessing the Falklands war as soon as I saw '82...great video Dr Felton! Interesting as all hell as usual, can never get enough of your channel
Fantastic video by Dr Felton once again. Learned it wasn't good to be a whale in the South Atlantic in spring 1982!
Finally a video at exactly the right time..lunch time with Mark Felton...and U Boats..a perfect combination of facts and good food on my end!
Thanks, Mark - for another great presentation.
Mark knows what he is doing.
Love you Mark, but...
The snorkel was for bringing air in for the diesel engines whilst at periscope depth, not for the exhaust.
The exhaust was vented overboard further down the sail.
Very thrilling!
U-boats were also blamed for dragging Brazil into WW2, after the sinking of several merchant ships along its vast Atlantic coast.
Brazil's response was the so called FEB, short for Brazilian Expeditionary Force, deployed mostly to fight in Italy under US supervision.
For most Brazilians, FEB members had a relevant role in Italy and are respected as national heros.
To some, however, FEB was not more than a waste of precious life, ammo, crafts, etc. Unprepared the GIs were mostly considered a burden to American soldiers.
So I wonder what is the real history behind Brazil's FEB...
Dr. Mark, have you ever covered the subject on one of your videos?
Thanks much!
Cheers from Brazil.
Come to Brazil
I will enjoy much to see the vídeo about FEB , made for Dr. Felton .
Ur sailing in a war area, you should be aware that a submarine could be lurking near by
Hey, you stepped up. No shame there. The Western Powers had centuries of warfighting and training experience. Nobody in their right mind would expect a level of technical skill from such a young and rural nation. You put your blood on the line and whether you were an asset or burden that blood is the same. Well Done, Sons of Dom Pedro I.
@@johannsebastianbach9003 I think you have it backwards. The issue was German U-boats sinking ships off the Brazilian coast, which is why Brazil first started letting US patrol aircraft operate from Brazil, and eventually joined the war after attacks on Brazillian shipping in Brazillian waters
I was 13 in ‘82. This War lead me too a 20 yr Army carrier 🇨🇦. Great episode.
Those must have been a very confusing final moment for all those whales
The whales have been diligently rebuilding their forces for a counter-attack. Just wait for it.
Even worse for the bowl of petunias
...strange looking fish... *nom*
boom!
A good video. As an Australian I remember that we had purchased HMS Invicible and were months away from delivery when the War started. We have never purchased another carrier which kind of disappointed a lot of military people I know.
Basically all we have is a couple of dinghies and a rowboat
And a tyrannical government
Seriously though torpedoing whales isn’t something I ever thought about. Really upsetting just as much as human loss. Thank you for the information
Even more so as people have choices, whales did not.
Doesn't say a lot for military detection equipment does it?
Yet another gem from history. Thank you
Ah, the U Boats still haven't gotten over their war against Royal Navy....Thank you for your informative videos Mark :D
Observed almost all of your videos simply put excellent great research accuracy and commentary thank you
The San Luis was a good ship with bad torpedoes. The whales were the real losers from the Falkland conflict. Didn't know the Argentinians employed AL Pacino as a submarine captain.
You talking too me....
YOU TALKING TO ME....🤣
YOU TORPEDOING ME?
SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE... FUUUUCK!!! AGAIN!?!?!?!?!?!
So any idea how many whales were hurt during that action?
Lol I thought the same thing when I saw the Pacino look alike. Those poor whales.
Here in Germany we have an old idiom for the make AEG:
A = Auspacken -> unpack
E = Einschalten -> switch on
G = Geht nicht -> doesn't work
I admit, that idiom does only work out with the German wording...
"German engineering"
"German quality"
German humour!
Out packing
Installing
Get nicked
Fascinating U-Boat story, Mark. Thanks
That aircraft carrier was bought from UK in 1948 by the Netherlands who renamed her to Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman (R 81). An engine room fire took her out of service in 1968. She was sold to Argentina in 1969 and renamed ARA Veinticinco de Mayo.
Karel Doorman being the Dutch naval officer who during World War II commanded remnants of the short-lived American-British-Dutch-Australian Command naval strike forces in the Battle of the Java Sea. He was killed in action when his flagship HNLMS De Ruyter was torpedoed during the battle, having chosen to go down with the ship on the 28th of February 1942.
My dad served on the Doorman for a while, the Doorman was nicknamed 'the fat boat' by Dutch mariners.
Dr Mark Felton, your research is usually impeccable but this is the second time that I have tried to correct you when you say "the Royal Navy only sent Nuclear powered Submarines to the Falkland Islands during the 1982 conflict!" But the Royal Navy also sent HMS Onyx, SSK 21 a diesel electric, conventional Oberon Class Submarine to the Falklands during the conflict. Remembering that this was 40 years ago, there's a lot of information on the Internet about it's roles and duties during the Falklands War.
Correct, I served on Oynx in the mid eighties & she was down south.
more importantly the onyx had an encounter whit the san luis.
And?
HMS Onyx slammed the Argentinians, and were the inspiration for a whole generation.
I heard "the royal navy also sent nuclear powered submarines"
Who doesn't like a Mark Felton video!
Some of the Argentines fought bravely and professionally. They deserve credit for that and they should not be blamed for poor high level leadership. B, (UK)
Thank you for your kind words. I' ll dare to say that almost all of our combatants have done a good job. Specially the Air Force and Naval Aviation.
Have a nice day.
I agree, they fought so bravely, it could had turned out differently.
Thank you my friend! British also fought bravely and as gentlemen!
Well said blokes gave their lives 🇬🇧
@@pucarasetenta4361 they did their duty and many gave their lives. From 🇬🇧
When the Antelope was in Long Beach, CA in 1978 was on a reserve cruise. The crew hosted us in the "pub," where we enjoyed John Courage in a can (quite good) and traded souvenirs. I often wonder how many of the lads I met were still inboard that fateful day in 1982.
The crew were evacuated after the explosion, one member of an Army bomb disposal team was killed and another severely wounded, Antelope sank next day.
I can't imagine there would have been that many from the crew four years previous. Average length of a draft was one and a half to three years.
Absolutely fascinating and thanks for casting some light on Germany's Type XXI And Type XXII subs, their postwar submarine production, and the Falklands War.
Everything seemed to be "a little to late to help the Germans", the V2, the Me262, the King Tiger, Hitler shooting himself etc etc. .I don't know how you keep digging up these captivating, informative and off the wall topics for your vids Mark but keep it coming. Greetings and thanks from a Cornish in Canada.
Eventually, the opposite of your first statement will prove true
the saddest part about the falklands war is that it really fucked Argentina's international relations. They didn't even manage to take back the "Malvinas" as they call them. Just another pointless war started by some politician to make some pointless political statement so people vote for him next term.
If it wasn't for the lunatics in power we wouldn't have war. Well put
Bit like Ukraine
No ...these were generals who took power by force not by elections as Argentina at the time was a military dictatorship
The best part of the war was that it totally discredited the Argentine military dictatorship.
It is funny how british in northern hemisphere, some 8 thousand miles away, pretend that islands taken from a young nation not able to defend them, are rightfully british, these islands are just in fron of argentina, not the uk
🤓 superb work again sir ... I knew nothing of Argentinian submarine operations during the Falklands War
Mr. Felton, you had your facts to the point. I knew what happened because one of the crewmen in the San Luis and I have a friend in common.
Not only he did mention the frustration after the launches, because at the beginning everything looked _"dandy",_ only to watch the torps _go off to live on an island somewhere,_ a second later, but also the level of brainwrecking stress that came from avoiding the ships above for almost a week. On another note, I think I remember HMS Conqueror's Capt. deciding to use WWII torps, because _"they should be fine against a WWII ship"._ I always wondered, though, what was a shiny new nuclear sub doing carrying WWII ordnance. Cheers.
Probably had a lot in surplus after the war and after removing torpedo launchers from ships like the Belfast and other ww2 ships, so with the subs being the only ships capable of using them might as well put them to use. Even ww2 ordnance is still probably overkill if you ever needed to do some commerce raiding and is cheaper too.
The M1911a1 is a WW1 era weapon that's still around, not to mention Ma Deuce (M2) a pre WW2 weapon that is still on active duty.
The German M3 machine gun is merely a rechambered MG42.
Just because a weapon is old doesn't mean it is useless.
@@jefferyindorf699Hey there! I think there's been a misunderstanding, I'm not pondering about those torps because of their design, but because of their age proper. Sure old small arms do happen to be around and work just fine, and their modern, rather recently manufactured ones do just as well, but in the case of heavy, complex ordnance like torpedoes, why bring 40 y/o ones? An analogue example would be, if you were to choose your quality designed rifle ammo, where quality is not under question, would you use brand new, or 40 year old cartridges? 🙂 Cheers.
@@darman12able Probably. I also thought at some point that it could've been related to the fact that the British MoD was beginning to see its budget being reduced, so they had to make do with whatever was around and deemed reliable.
The Conquer carried Tigerfish wire guided torpedoes, and the old mark 18s. The TigerFish at that time was considered unreliable and had a smaller warhead than the mark 18. So a reliable older weapon with a much bigger warhead was used.
@Mark Felton
Here's a fun fact I read from Tom Clancy's book "Submarine: A Guided Tour Inside a Nuclear Warship" when he interviewed a RN sub commander, the General Belgrano (ex-USS Phoenix) was sunk coincidentally with the same pattern of torpedo hits as her sister ship USS Helena during WW2, which also tore off her bow and blew a gaping hole amidships in the machinery room.
Imagine that? All of those guys looking like my OPA screaming ALARM!!!! Dr Felton could make anything interesting about then and now pure genius! I wish that after the world calms down you can come to NY when it is safe to do some lectures because, it would be awesome and you pick the topic! You have been one of the few that I have been following since the beginning and wish you did a voiceover on a movie! Stay safe and be well!
Love your Falklands series. I'm well in my 50s. So I still remember keenly watching the news daily. All things considered, it was somewhat evenly matched and a more conventional military conflict, unlike the GWOT we are so used to seeing for the last couple of decades or so.
what is gwot
@@grippatherippa3909 Global War on Terror
@@ftc9258 that's strictly an American thing there's a lot other conflicts going on in the world that don't involve the American government directly like the global war on terror has
Great video mark, love your way of making history interesting and easy to understand! Can we have more recent history videos?
Excellent account of war at sea during the Faulklands conflict. The hunt of the San Luis was epic. I was never aware whales suffered collateral damage.
Collateral and Clitoral Damage 😂.
the snorkel is not designed to vent diesel exhaust, it is designed to draw in fresh air from the atmosphere to feed the diesel engines.
the exhaust is forced out, usually through a diesel exhaust mast although it can be forced out through different hull valves depending on the configuration of the ventilation system and the facilities on board.
That's true. In any event, a leaking snorkel is still bad, very bad.
I remember as a child watching this on the news, and being impressed with all the high tech military equipment. I watch it now and turns out most of their ordinance was left over from ww2
Once again, thank you Mark,
for yet another great video, carefully researched and full of relevant information.
On a less serious note ....
I couldn't help thinking about a U Boat crewed by "The Boys From Brazil", wreaking havoc in 1982.
Your frequency in uploads recently is impressive
Another brilliant video, with Mark we really get quantity and quality.
Great Job Mark !!! Probably the best military channel of RUclips quality material as always !!!
Very interesting read for this retired submariner. One small point though - submarine (and surface ship) speeds should be given in knots and distances in nautical miles (versus kph and km).
The problem with knots and nautical miles is that nobody outside of a select few has any idea what they mean. You may as well use bananas and astrological minutes.
The Atlantic Conveyor could have been mentioned by name as one of the ships destroyed. That ship really made a significant difference.
Fascinating Mark. Thanks
Mark I love learning from your channel. Your skill at keeping history is essential to the future. Have you heard the story of u boat commander Otto von weddigen
The longest ever bombing raid was conducted in this conflict with Vulcan bombers. A massive logistical feat for it's time.
He made a video of that as well
Indeed it was. And one bomb hit the target.
An incredible feat, although later surpassed by the American B-2 raids as the longest.
not any more the us brake the record in 2003
🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔😕😕😕😕😕😕😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣😊😊😁😁🙏🙏
Once again, i always learn more details other historians leave out. Good work as always.
10:17 those are standard practice tactics even today, it was not going back to old tactics or anything it was just using the most reliable tactic.
I have never really read anything about the sea-war. I was surprised to see that they had a former British carrier!
likewise, bet the pre-war conversations in the war room went well...'they have a what!?... Well who bloody hell sold them one of them!?….Ohhh, Oh I See' 😂
By way of the dutch navy, where she carried the name Karel Doorman.
@@kimwit1307 was ocean or Majestic class , built at Camell Laird I believe .
The argentine navy and the royal navy had a good relationship before the war. The argentine comandos that spearheaded the invasion were trained by the SBS. If you look at pictures from the early days you can see them carrying the same modifiied Sterling smgs the SBS used.
and the planes on that carrier were former US Navy
Thank you Mark. Absolutely fascinating as usual. Note: "... unfortunate whales..." I must admit, your dry British humor makes your presentations all the more enjoyable. Cheers from the US!
Wow, how many poor whales were "sunk" during the war?!
RIP
Genuinely laughed when I heard it im evil man
Stop blubbering!!!
@@r9kv753 So I googled it and found this. This doesn't account for the other whales Mark mentioned were hit, but at least 3... damn.
"A British warship (HMS Brilliant) fired on and killed three whales during the Falklands War after mistaking them for enemy submarines."
@@r9kv753 I tried not to, but it was no use. I blame Mark's dry delivery!
Even though the San Luis failed to sink a British ship, she was still successful in diverting British resources to hunt down the submarine and also (possibly) keeping high valued assets out of some areas of operation. Hearing more details of this aspect would have been an interesting inclusion - to what effect did the San Luis affect/hamper the British campaign?
Amazing. I dont' recall hearing about this in the US during the Falklands war. Thanks for highlighting this unique data.
Reagan screwed Argentina, you know the treaty about outside force coming into Western Hémisphère. Argentina was the only nation that backed USA in the Bay of Pigs and sent a ship. However, I thank the UK for giving rugby, polo, field hockey and football. I forgot the railroad. Thank you.
I salute the brave men and women who fought in the Falklands war on both sides, but I pity the senseless losses our Cetacean friends had to endure due to faulty equipment.
I saw an interview with the C.O. of the marine detachment on South Georgia and he categorically denies that they surrendered. He said that they negotiated a ceasefire but never admitted surrender which was a hugely unpopular decision among his men.
Wiping my brow. I thought at the beginning you were saying that the Germans themselves were attacking the British task force. Whew. Still a superb, incredibly well researched video. One point, there has been much criticism of the sinking of the Belgrano as it was outside the exclusion zone. The exclusion zone was for international shipping, not Argentina. Hey, the UK was at war with her. Even if the Belgrano had been sunk in the Arctic, is still would have been ethically acceptable.
I really love your channel and content you produce. It is beautiful and enriching at the same time. The way you communicate is also very effective and very involving. The research which goes behind each and every video is really praise worthy. We need more quality content creators like you. Keep doing what you do ✨
Sir Mark great stuff. Looks like it’s still going on only in a different part of the World. Many Thanks. 🇺🇸🏴🇬🇧
As usual! This was GREAT!
It would be an interesting video on the raising of the Type 23’s from the seabed if there is any information regarding it. Anywhere we could find some material on it? Another great video, Mark!
Are you saying the ships were Salvaged ?
No Falklands warships have ever been raised, and the first Type 23 was launched five years after the conflict.
U-2365 XXIII
Scuttled on 8 May 1945 in the Kattegat, north-west of Anholt island in position 56.51N, 11.49E.
Post-war information
The boat was raised in June 1956. Commissioned as U-Hai (S 170) in the German Federal Navy 15 Aug 1957. The boat sank at 1854hrs on 14 Sept, 1966 in the North Sea, in position 55.15N, 04.22E, after taking in water. Raised on 19 Sept, 1966 from 47 meters depth and broken up.
U-2367 XXIII
Sank 5 May 1945 near Schleimünde, in approximate position 55.00N, 11.00E, after a collision with an unidentified German U-boat.
Post-war information
Raised in August 1956. Renamed U-Hecht (pike) and served in the German Federal Navy from 1 Oct, 1957. Stricken on 30 Sep, 1968 and broken up at Kiel in 1969.
U-2540 XXI
Scuttled on 4 May 1945 near the Flensburg lightship.
Post-war information
Raised in 1957. Became the research vessel Wilhelm Bauer in the Bundesmarine, 1 Sept 1960. Transferred to the Deutsches Schiffahrtsmuseum (German Maritime Museum) at Bremerhaven in 1984.
@@AtheistOrphan I think he means type 23 U-boats?
Hard to believe that you can raise and use again a sub that was underwater for 10 years.....would figure it would be a rust bucket.
G'day Mark, Excellent video. I remember the declaration of hostilities and the UK's task force leaving for the South Atlantic. I knew then that the Argentines were in big trouble and probably didn't stand a chance. Although, I soon realised that their Air Force punched way above its tiny weight and that it got a 'bit hairy' there for a while.
Many UK servicemen were sent to an early grave. While I saw that the match up was a lot closer than I'd first envisaged; my faith in the UK's combined forces would out.
Until this brilliant video, I didn't fully realise how close that far off conflict was.
As I mentioned below to another commenter, for the UK’s forces, it was a combination of relentless, professional training; dedication, discipline and teamwork that prevailed over a largely conscripted Argentine force who fought well but whose heart was not in it.
With the possible exception of WW2, there is no such thing as a 'good war'. The Argentine war against UK territory was not good, apart from the outcome. Was it necessary? Probably not. However, once the Argentines took up arms and invaded British islands, the die was cast.
Love her or loathe her, PM Thatcher had little choice but to respond in kind.
I clearly recall the illogical, over the top, public criticism of Mrs Thatcher's decision to mobilise that the US made clear to her and the world.
Sure, the Americans made quite an effort to pursue diplomatic solutions, however, they should have done all that privately while readying US forces to assist, on the ground, on the sea and in the air at the Falklands.
Historically, the US goes to war over a violent 'fridge opening', yet one got the distinct feeling that the US was ready to hang Mrs Thatcher and her task force 'out to dry'. Perhaps I am totally wrong as, of course, I wasn't privy to the real intelligence position. That said, a loud and clear, good old bit of serious US sabre rattling very well might have caused the Argentines to reconsider their position.
Far too many good people died in that conflict; and it strikes me that a highly robust, negative, public statement to the Argentines by the POTUS may have averted unwanted deaths on both sides.
Still, that was all 40 years ago [isn't that depressing] and although, in that period, Argentina has made weak noises about still wanting Las Malvinas, you'll note that another invasion by them has never really been on the cards.
Thanks, Mark, for reminding us all of that sad and cynical episode in Argentina's past.
Now, we've got another European war on our hands... have the leaders of the 'modern' world not learned a thing since 'The Great War'? It appears that is the case. Mr Putin should heat up the samovar and sit down with Mr Zelenskiy, have a cup of tea to talk about peace and the sovereign/human rights of independent nations. Cheers, BH
And if the media had not reported the cruise missiles were not exploding, more British lives may have been saved. (They took out ship's, because the hot rocket exhaust set the ships on fire)
However, many lessons were learned about the ships, like: aluminium alloy burns on it's own, painting of the cable runs to the bulkhead wall causes fires to spread to the next compartment, lino produces toxic smoke, carpet on the floor helps stop water sloshing and acts as a fire barrier, Instead of full RADAR rotation, a back & forth sweep can be more effective etc etc.
There is also the very interesting story of a Vulcan Bomber.
Also an interesting story of the orders of the submarine Captain, that questioned the legitimacy of firing the torpedoes, which led to the sinking of the General Belgrano.
Also at that time, the British were winding down their forces. Perhaps it was Britain's 'signal' to the rest of the world that Great Britain was not 'weak'???
Who knows?
Regardless, it would have been better to have gone through the United Nations and settled it that way. The British Parliament obviously did not want to go that route.
Yes, if Mr Putin wants to 'save face' and not go further down the 'Black Hole', a sit down drink of tea is a great idea.
After going to the ANZAC services, there is a lot of talk among attending members, about not learning the lessons of the past.
Brilliant information and narration.
The crew reversed the polarity of the guidance system of the SST-4. That is why they failed. Btw, there are still quite a few (58 apparently) 209s in active service.
In NUG , Intercom torpedoes and submarine
@@silverfox441 it’s what the report says, but of course could be wrong. The last kill with SST-4 was in 2020 btw.
@@tobiwan001 The British Tigerfish torpedo was also unreliable, which is why the captain opted for ww2 tech torpedoes.