Is Flat Rate DESTROYING the automotive industry?
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- In this video I talk about my personal experience with flat rate. As well as my thoughts and opinions on the pay scale. Also if I think it’s ruining the industry as a whole?
Lmk your thoughts in the comments
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As a flat rate tech for 39 years as a dealer tech … last ten or 15 years I only do warranty work transmission or engine electrical .. doesn’t matter I’m a senior master tech .. my pay is only warranty time .. I’ve had a good career and always put food on the table.. never been without a job or have I ever been fired from anything .. for the techs making 80 -90 hours a week that’s fantastic .. as a shop Forman .. I see how corners are cut and your pen is your best tool .. and I see all the come backs that I have to get involved with because you pushed it out the door. But please don’t tell me how great of a tech you are because your making 80 hours a week .. in my opinion your stealing either warranty time or from the customer . There is no way that you can possibly book 80 90 hours a week legitimately no corners cut in a dealer . Your pen is doing the work .. I usually do two ten speeds a week and and various other jobs check engine lights and so on . If I’m lucky I can pull a 50 hour week . I do no service work . Straight warranty . Flat rate in a dealer doesn’t work and it hasn’t in a long time ..
80 hours a week in todays warranty times ...im calling bs
@@user-hp4mb6dc6m it’s the techs who are fed nothing but gravy that are able to make those kind of hours. But those same techs bitch and moan every time they have to get into an electrical diag
Most I’ve EVER hit was 60ish with a lot of used cars and PDI’s!!! And I was ALWAYS the last Tech out the door and worked through most lunch breaks…
Ty for the shout out buddy. I'm in total agreement with you. Flatrate isn't a problem when it's used fairly. But too often terrible managers and owners use it to band aid ineffective management and terrible sales staff because instead of fixing the problem they just rob from technicians when they don't charge correctly. Flat rate doesn't work most of the time when you're a tech doing alot of advanced diagnostics or you're dealing with older rotted vehicles that require modifications or out of the box thinking to complete the repairs. I made great money flat rate. But I was also robbed from constantly on flat rate. All about perspectives. What works for some doesn't work for all.
I'm currently an hourly apprentice, I would like to do an hourly plus production bonus. I've heard the argument that, "Well if you do hourly plus production bonus, the guys who are on flat rate will make less money". Which is just a dumb excuse, let a person decide which pay plan is better for their situation. Me personally I would rather make less money and be stressed if i'm gonna make money on flat rate, if I'm getting my ass kicked that pay period. And I've asked about flat rate with like an 80 - 90% guarantee so I'm at least not making less money than I am currently (cuz your rate would go up on flat rate) if I had a bad pay period. The reason why they want no guarantee is cuz the shop makes more money, they benefit off your success and get to step away and not pay you when you aren't booking hours.
Agreed. I know a few shops that let their techs pick what they would like. Either flat rate or hybrid pay. Why limit it imo
Basically a lot of shops will do this go to go to a hunter alignment school do one two and three courses get 3 ASE now the state I live in you can get your state inspection license and your emissions license I don't know if your state can or will that you do this and your state but if they do get that that really opens doors
Never going flat rate it is destroyed everything you go and book time and you don't make money
They're not going to guarantee you money we're going to give you 40 hours a week they're going to do that for your first paycheck to say hey if you do 40 hours a week
Started 25 years ago bottom tier. Begged for a job at a mom and pop shop. Cleaning up, changing tires, oil changes and grunt work. I have worked at my fair share of places. Comes down to where you are and the owner/management. Terrible shops and dealers everywhere that will abuse flat rate and the pay plan. Customer pay/not warranty repairs get 1.0 diag to start, customers are aware if you have a check engine light concern and a power slider door inop, that's 2.0 to get started. Now do the techs abuse the system also? Absolutely.
100% goes both ways for sure!
Techs only abuse the system because of the company they work for makes them.
@@Enrightautowell we'll.
@@Adam-kk7nw well well
My dealer has a system where the customer gets a free half hour of diag for any concern. For example if a car comes in with a CEL we do basic checks/test and if we figure it out within the half hour we recommend what is needed and if the customer approves it they are not charged the diag time. If they decline the service writer is supposed to pay the tech 0.5 out of their pay. Company says it’s to get more people in the door but all it does is attract customers who want everything for free and starts fights between techs and advisors. Half the time the advisor never pays the tech the half hour. I personally like flat rate because I average 65 hours a week and make about 115k. I highly doubt if dealer stopped flat rate they would pay techs enough hourly to even come close to 6 figures.
Yup give away free stuff and attract the bottom feeders. Nothing in life is free nor should it be.
The history of flat rate goes back to when the Model T hit mass production. Before then only extremely wealthy people owned cars and their coachman operated and maintained them. Suddenly there was a mass influx of cars and only a few people who could work on them. So these coachmen began leaving their positions to go work on cars and charging the dealers by the hour and top dollar for their services. The dealers didn’t like this so they pressured ford to come up with a solution. Ford answered by setting a time limit on what certain repairs should take, and flat rate was born. So by design flat rate was invented to screw the tech and to this day every time we figure out a work around the manufacturers figure out a way to cut the hours.
I couldn’t agree more.
I think the race to the bottom is killing the industry so much faster than flat rate. Even the biggest names in the industry do the race to the bottom games….
Yea it’s scary sometimes for sure to see what some of these places are charging
I agree! I think when a new hire starts out it should be hourly or hybrid b/c they need to buy tools. Experienced techs/mechs should have the option to go flat rate but the service writer or owner needs to spread the wealth or you put morale in the dump. As far as diag time goes, the tech needs to get paid for the hr no matter!! We all know you may beat the hr but it makes up for the times when it takes longer than an hour. It is experience & efficiency that should be rewarded. As shop owners we need to treat our employees like we know how we want to be treated as long as they work out. Slow to hire, test period & let go if not working out. Train , break bad habits, & praise in public counsel in private. Advantage of owning your own shop & you are a one man shop you can charge how you want & it only affects you!
100% to all of this!
I worked at a Dodge dealership when I first started out & they paid hourly wage. When I got off work I started fixing cars at home & it didn't take me long to realize I made more $$ on my own!
@@haywardsautomotive6156 yea I started at an Indy shop for 2 1/2 years. Then my first two weeks at the dealer they were going to guarantee me 40 hours then switch me to flat rate but I turned 46 hours my first week so they just put me instantly on flat rate.
The politics got old really fast
I left the auto industry and became an rv mechanic. Never looked back. The benefits are too extensive to list
Glad to hear it’s working out for you!
Flat rate drove me out of the industry and I am actually grateful for it. I would have never started the career I have now, which pays extremely well, is much easier on my body, and provides great benefits.
For those in this system, get out of it. It's built to transfer burdens of the business onto the mechanic. Mechanics should not have to worry about fluctuations in pay.
Agreed
Coming from someone who still works at a dealer and climbed up the food chain, the more you know the more you get handcuffed and play clean up guy. I agree and think should be a hybrid system.
Same experience for me as well. It was better off laying dumb so you didn’t get a ton of diagnostic testing work
Not help when manufacturer ridiculous cutting warranty time ! Honda paying 7.6h for pilot torque converter with diagnostic and wheel alignment 😅
Btw yesterday writer gave my 0.2 to check vehicle no start ..
@@micku9954 don’t forget to add in all the extra time dealing with rust that they do not account for.
@@BCautosolutions they might gave your extra 0.5h for rusty bolts but u need to spend 0.3h to take photo and document that u need use torch on R/O 😆
@@micku9954 yeah it’s craziness lol
It is destroying Technicians who care.
People that are only in the business for the money could care less about Caring for the Customer.
My Lad who is from the UK who is a full time qualified Technician after his apprenticeship for the pass 7 Years for a Main Car Dealer, He has a 2 year Visa to Work in Canada & the Dealerships DO NOT "Recognise the UK Qualifications & if he wants to stay in the Industry he has to retrain & start an Apprentice once again, Obviously this is not worth it as he only is there for 2 Years but he states in "Canada" they are short of Skilled People, well if they are that short, Why don't they recognise the UK Fully Qualified Technicians also this is the same for all Nationalities as You need a 310 Licence which is the Canadian Mechanic/Technician Certificate, He has sent the Gov't all relevant UK Docs from the start of his Apprenticeship with Pass certificates & all his UK working details from here right up-to date & they still will not except them, So let this be a warning to anyone from the UK who is a Mechanic/Technician going to Canada for a length of time.
17years and counting in this industry as a tech. Honestly I can’t relate to most of the stuff you talked about in your video. Why, because I’ve never worked for a shop/employer. That didn’t have their best interest in helping me, help them make money. +100k a year is very hard in this industry, I’ve been blessed to achieve this. I’ve also learned all the ASE or certs in the world, isn’t gonna help you achieve that. If you’re not willing to work hard and grind it out everyday. Flat rate is just not for you, I wouldn’t want it any other way.
Biggest problem I see with this industry is starting pay for new employees and the amount of work req of them. Most guys I’ve trained will start out on a 90day program on hourly pay. Second would be, the lack of motivation kids have now a days to work hard and make money.Third is the amount of money for tools that needs to be invested into this trade, without any financial help from the business itself. Fourth, the way the industry is trying to go with electric vehicle. A lot of guys that have if not more time than what i’ve invested. Don’t want change and rather leave the industry.
To touch on a topic you talked about or others commented about. Sticking to or playing dumb about the work capable of doing. Don’t do it, you’re only handicapping yourself. Fortunately I’ve learned to dabble in all areas of the trade. What I’ve found is, there are dealerships that will cater to your specialty. For those of you on the fence about your job or not happy. I encourage you to venture out and test the waters. You need to know your worth and if you’re getting paid accordingly. Over the years, what I’ve learned what’s most important to me was, money, my time off with my family,weekends/holidays, family friend ownership/management are what matters the most to me. When looking for a place of employment.
Thanks for watching band sharing your insight. I agree with a lot you said. I personally feel shops should be paying for more of the techs tools. Especially starting out. I will be buying them a cart full of tools so they don’t have to worry about tools.
They do also need paid more because the other industry’s are paying more and you don’t have to invest in tools at those industry’s.
The main issue I’ve found is most shops aren’t charging enough to start to pay their employees a competitive wage because for years as an industry we tried to race to the bottom with so many shops trying to be cheap than the guy down the street. We have created our own environment and we have to dig our way back out.
there are so many customers that lose it when you tell them that there is a $180.00 diag. to find out what is wrong with there car. until the culture changes and don't expect someone to work for free. it won't change.
I don’t have enough space on this chat to say that by flat rate sucks, you can’t talk about customer pay without talking about warranty times because Mitchell, all data ect goes off warranty times & those never increase they always take away time
There is a lot to discuss about labor times for sure. Which is why I preach charging by the job like every other trade industry instead of by the time. Which is why my invoices are a job price not parts and labor. But some states don’t allow you to do that.
Could you please elaborate what do you mean Charging by the job. How does that works, I never heard of that.
@@lovisharora7250 charging like every other trade industry. They don’t charge by the hour they charge by the job.
I get paid hourly and, imho, In many ways I think flat rate is far superior to hourly. Had 5 sets of tires today. Could have pounded them out and moved on to make more money. But I keep telling myself I get paid X and hour no matter what. Why kill myself to get those tires done in short order. Now I’m not dragging my feet, I’m timely with it.
It really kills me because I’m a driven person. That’s just the labor side of things. When it comes to tools it’s hard. If I know purchasing a certain tool would help either make the shop able to do a job, or make a job faster/easier… guess what… I still get paid x an hour. You need to rely on the “good will” of employers to give you the raise for the new skills/equipment that allows them to make more money.
That being said hybrid pay is probably the way to go. I don’t mind putting a little skin in the game… but there needs to be a return on my investment. I think you nailed it down in the video very well. Poor shop management is diving the industry straight into the dirt. I think it’s also causing techs to not care about being poorly trained… not going to get paid for it why would I do it.
Great points! I agree some people are built more for flat rate for sure. I always think about the slow times. Every shop sees them and they are horrendous for flat rate but when it’s busy it’s good no doubt at all.
But yea I agree I think hybrid pay is the best of both worlds that way you still have some drive and don’t have to worry about if you have a slow week
@@Enrightauto that’s one of the main reasons why I think hybrid is the best. At the end of the day is the shops problem to get cars in the door. I should not be penalized for the failure to get enough work in.
My last statement about training was more along the lines of what you were saying in the video if you’re the “stupid”tech, you get all the decent work versus getting punished for knowing more. Believe me, I love going to training events.
Flat rate does not work but nowadays it's not worth it every shop is the same it will be fast during the summer time as soon as school starts it'll be slow for that week and it will be slow until January and it may pick up around March people cannot afford anything anymore
I don’t think flat rate is a bad thing. It just depends on the situation. I do think eventually shops are going to have to go to hourly. So I’ve been working at a shop for about a year. I retire from lawn enforcement after 10 years I just couldn’t handle the emotional to. It was taken on me and my family. I worked in a high drug use high domestic violence and gang related murder area . That all being said the politics at the police department were bad but the politics at the shop where I work are crazy. We had one technician who got caught doing sexual favors for a female service writer so he could get the cherry picked work it was nuts but nowadays it’s hard to find anybody who will show up on time and be able to pass a drug test not do drugs in the parking lot or drink on their lunch
Dude you was making 80 hours a week
and you still quit i guess this means you making
100 hours a week now
lol nope but now I have freedom
The way i see regaurdless of the pay system if you have to be at the shop mor than 8 hours your due overtime. If you have to be there at 8 and go home at 5 than dont pay piece work. Mechanics are essentialy independant contractors you show up with tool training and knowalage than are paied piece work. Worse its not even 50 percent of door like the old days its nore like 25 percent. Than there is the stigma that your a dirty idiot that doesnt need to know anything. Its bs shops can stream line their operations and get pay up or loose their real craftsmen to other vocations where pay is fair this also goes for the transportation industry where drivers are paied by the mile not for every hour they are at work
I appreciate your perspective and comment. A couple things to add
The only reason pay before was 1/2 was due to overhead being so much lower than it is now a days. Unfortunately shop’s have become so expensive to operate with equipment, insurance, subscriptions etc etc. Not saying it’s right or wrong just staying the facts
People treat us like dirty idiots or have a stigma of us that way well let’s be honest. A lot of guys look and act that way. Want proof just scroll Automotive tik tok for 30 seconds. I agree with you 100% we shouldn’t act look or be treated that way. I constantly say if we want to be paid, viewed and looked at like professionals we have to act like it.
I agree with you on the pay. If you are there more than 8hrs and are working producing. You deserve overtime pay. I look at flat rate as a the lazy man’s pay system.
how about honest mechanics,,,
Not sure what you mean by this comment. Can you expand please
and get ripped off