I have to say I've always thought the hornby one to be perfectly acceptable and pretty dam accurate for my standards and I consider myself to be quite a stipiler for what looks as near as the real thing. Thanks for posting the review, always enjoy them and your humour in the narration.
This was enlightening and interesting too. I have the Hornby HAA hoppers and okay detail is a wonderful thing but to be honest i like my HAA hoppers. They aren't $60 NZ/£30 and i can buy 3 for $60 instead of 1 so making a set isnt to bad money wise, and folks will see its a HAA hopper train or merry go round train. But like you said if money wasnt an issue id certainly consider these Cavalex models. Cheers 😊
Wow, 30 quid for a wagon. It seems like only a few years ago that would get you a decent used loco - wait, it was! They are very nicely detailed wagons so at least you're getting something good for your money if those rivets are important to you. A bit modern for me as I am a pre BR blue livery guy. Nice review👍
I have a rake of cda as I'm from the westcountry. However as much as I love detail in a display cabinet, the 3 foot rule applies the majority of the time so I run secondhand hornby and get the effect I like to see. ...masses of cheap stock running around behind a Blazey 37 for instance.
I just got all 9 of the Cavalex freight brown HOP AB's today, and yes they are VERY nice. However, I wouldn't say they are necessarily the best option for a whole rake. Forget Hornby, it's the wrong shape and full of errors, yet retails at a similar price to Cavalex and Accurascale. I will do a proper comparison tomorrow when I get the Accurascale ones of the loft, but first impressions of the Cavalex models are that they were not as free wheeling as Accurascale's. That will be noticeable on a train of up to 30 wagons! Detail wise, I would say they are probably on par, except for the wheel arches you mention, but just make sure the Accurascale one's are loaded if it bothers you! Accurascale's bulk buying discount means they cannot be ignored, as the saving works out at a whopping £225 for a rake of 30 if you choose Accurascale! So if you want a loaded train it's a no brainer. If running empty and the wheel arch bothers you, you would have to consider how much it bothered you.
If you have a layout where you're running 30 wagon rakes(multipes there of as well) of the same wagon on top of passenger and mixed freight etc. I'm gonna take a wild stab and say money probably isn't that much of an issue to you or that you've already purchased them from previous offerings and are quite happy with them. We had a layout just capable of running such trains, i mean just, it took up a whole room of our house as a kid, not exactly a small room either. The portion of modellers this saving applies to and is thus able to help create a value judgement for in relation to the wagon is tiny. What probably bothers people more is what chance there is of being able to buy more further down the line so as to create a uniform train based on incrementally buying them as and when it is possible. This being said, these or the accurascale ones are probably more a special treat, the hornby ones even second hand are still probably the winner just by how abundant they are and by best odds of being able to get more going forward.
Regarding the free running, these wagons are as free running as anything else on the market, however the clasp brake can be a little off so if you're getting any rolling resistance I would suggest looking at that and tweaking so that it misses the wheel faces.
@@HamStrains but the saving is relative, even if you were just buying a rake of 9 wagons, Acurrascale works out at about £67 cheaper than Cavalex, you could get another three Accurascale wagons for that (with the 10% discount they offer), so they are definitely more cost effective for building rakes. The Hornby (China) models work out about the same price, and are sometimes more expensive than both Cavalex and Accurascale offerings depending on which website you look on, yet they are a FAR inferior product. The 1970's Hornby wagon is of course the budget offering, but you can't compare that to these as it is toy like in comparison, and they don't run very well.
@@outonroad I will have a look at them yes, it was not something that affect all 9 equally. I intend on comparing them with the Accurascale ones properly today, but from memory they ran even better.
The wheel arches in the Accurascale don't look too bad to me. Particularly once the hoppers are weathered, I doubt they'd be very visible. The Hornby model's hopper looks the right shape to me, but the problem is that the red frame is too low. The change in profile of the hopper should be hidden behind the red frame, but it's a couple of mm above it in the Hornby model -- compare the two wagons at 2:33. That seems a bigger defect to me than the little wheel arches.
"Any other model on the market today" - You mean accurascale and HORNBY versions right? Why wouldn't you go for the Accurascale ones? this is a bit of an advertisement for cavalex, and I get that and fair play to you and them - but what's wrong with them? The Accurascale version I mean. Maybe I missed that?
Too many of the new detailed items are rather fragile and more suitable for display purposes than actually being used running around the layout, getting their customary knocks and bumps along the way. In my experience Accurascale usually have the odd detail part fallen off in the box when they arrive new! The slightly older and more robust Hornby ones are much cheaper in comparison, especially second hand, and once weathered up they look the part whilst being pulled around the layout. The prices of some manufacturers are now becoming utterly obscene.... £90 for three MGR....They aren't even bogie wagons! Have word, that's ridiculous and insane! How about we boycott the RRPs and only buy on retailer's offers, of say 25% off or more?
£30 is actually very reasonable in today's market. It costs a lot to produce a model nowadays with production costs in China, shipping going through the roof and retailer margins on top. Also the falacy that smaller models should be cheaper is nonsense, the expensive part is not in raw material cost but in design, manufacture and assembly, all of which remains constant throughout regardless of model size.
@@outonroad small factory, highly skilled staff, relatively high chance of lockdown impacting income. Most of the price rise will likely originate in the factory placing a higher price on the run to hedge against loss of income from shut down meaning less production meaning less income. Raw materials does also play into it a little but by and large it will be risk of shut downs driving it up. Gotta extract the same value from potentially many fewer models produced. Either you up the cost and everything is fine which is a win or you up the cost and get shut down and survive, no manufacturing concern would intentionally leave their price structure the same and risk their existence just to make sure we get our fun.
@@outonroad Thank you for your considered reply. I completely understand where you are coming from and your rationale behind your opinion. Unfortunately, however, it is a commonly held misconception that prices are "reasonable in today's market" and the more it is peddled the more people believe it, such as yourself. Allow me to explain. I agree that all the costs have risen markedly but the entire model ranges from all manufacturers were already considerably overpriced in the first place; probably double or more what they reasonably should have been! So, the argument to justify even higher prices now as "reasonable" is an insouciant acceptance of the previous overcharging. When there is steady demand for these products, as has been the case in the past few years, the manufacturers test the boundaries and see what price increases they can get away with purely to boost profits. This is how markets "condition" customers into a false belief that prices need to rise. Marketing brainwashing! Because retailers generally work on percentage profit margins on the RRP, in effect the prices rise at ever faster rates, usually double the actual inflation cost of each price rise. The retail profit on a typical Bachmann class 47 five years ago would have been around £50, now it's £120, and far more for sound fitted models. That's around a 150% increase although it's only in the last 2 years any notable extra costs to manufacturer's supply line have arisen. The sound fitted models are the biggest money spinners. The chips actually cost pence not pounds and to blow the blank chips with sound files is a very very VERY cheap process too. If Hornby, at their staggeringly overpriced rates, can until recently sell TTS decoders for £30 retail then why do the others charge £120? Top quality sound chips with quality speakers should be no more than £30 RRP. The models coming pre-fitted from the factories should reflect this but instead they make a fortune; more profit on the sound chip than on the loco model itself! As for wagons, yes similar costs whether single axle or bogie to bring them to market. In the sweatshops of communist China the production costs haven't changed much. The international shipping rate has increased for all goods. All considered there is no justification for any small wagon to be more than £12 - £15, a bogie wagon £15 - 20 and a coach/carriage £20 to £25. ... Onboard LED lighting? Again, cheap as chips, pennies! A quality new class 47 with sound should be around £150. Remember, they have "conditioned" purchasers in the market! The truth is that the customer age group and financial status for model railways allow the manufacturers to charge ridiculously silly prices and the mature enthusiast pay it, albeit begrudgingly at times. They are taking advantage of you! If you are happy to be one of their mugs then that's your prerogative. Personally I think we should all make a stand to preserve the hobby's integrity and boycott new buys at their crazy RRP. I have recently acquired newly released Bachmann products at a 30% - 40% discount from major retailers in sale events. If everyone refuses to pay the silly RRPs then I guarantee they will sell the stock at a much much cheap price. Consumers always have the power, but they nearly always don't realise it!
Its not even a case of rivet counting to see just where the Hornby HAAs are so poor. The hopper body doesn't sit in the cradle properly, which means the angle change in the body of the hopper is very visible, around a scale 6 inches too high. Then there are those horribly obese metal buffers, missing brake calipers, huge beam running the length of the chassis, lack of door release linkages...every single one of these being more of an eyesore than the tiny arches in the Accura HAAs. Considering the Hornby tat is about the same price as Cavalex, its a no brainer. If you want the cheap option then the Accura ones all day every day and put a coal load over the arches; problem solved there. Otherwise go with Cav, and their poorly aligned coupler mounts, brakes and other chassis mouldings and have to deal with the awful tension locks they come with. For the record, I kept my Cav pre-order, and wish I'd have gone with Accurascales model instead; its a heck of a lot less work to hide those arches than to fix the multitude of poor assembly issues with the Cav hoppers.
Just bought myself some of the Cavalex HAA wagons. Went for the weathered versions of their HAA's. They do look very good weathered up.
I have to say I've always thought the hornby one to be perfectly acceptable and pretty dam accurate for my standards and I consider myself to be quite a stipiler for what looks as near as the real thing.
Thanks for posting the review, always enjoy them and your humour in the narration.
This was enlightening and interesting too. I have the Hornby HAA hoppers and okay detail is a wonderful thing but to be honest i like my HAA hoppers. They aren't $60 NZ/£30 and i can buy 3 for $60 instead of 1 so making a set isnt to bad money wise, and folks will see its a HAA hopper train or merry go round train. But like you said if money wasnt an issue id certainly consider these Cavalex models. Cheers 😊
Picked up a triple pack for 70 quid at GETS :)
Wow, 30 quid for a wagon. It seems like only a few years ago that would get you a decent used loco - wait, it was!
They are very nicely detailed wagons so at least you're getting something good for your money if those rivets are important to you.
A bit modern for me as I am a pre BR blue livery guy. Nice review👍
Morning Mr train man😊 Nice looking hopper with a great view 👍🏻 Loved the information scrolling at the bottom of the video 😀
I stole that gen off a mate but forgot to credit him 😖
I messaged him though, so got away with it 😝
I have a rake of cda as I'm from the westcountry. However as much as I love detail in a display cabinet, the 3 foot rule applies the majority of the time so I run secondhand hornby and get the effect I like to see. ...masses of cheap stock running around behind a Blazey 37 for instance.
Especially when heavily weathered!
@@paulhargreaves1497 Agreed. Actually the later Hornby ones, with extra detail, revised chassis and weathering are plenty realistic enough for me
I just got all 9 of the Cavalex freight brown HOP AB's today, and yes they are VERY nice. However, I wouldn't say they are necessarily the best option for a whole rake.
Forget Hornby, it's the wrong shape and full of errors, yet retails at a similar price to Cavalex and Accurascale.
I will do a proper comparison tomorrow when I get the Accurascale ones of the loft, but first impressions of the Cavalex models are that they were not as free wheeling as Accurascale's. That will be noticeable on a train of up to 30 wagons!
Detail wise, I would say they are probably on par, except for the wheel arches you mention, but just make sure the Accurascale one's are loaded if it bothers you!
Accurascale's bulk buying discount means they cannot be ignored, as the saving works out at a whopping £225 for a rake of 30 if you choose Accurascale! So if you want a loaded train it's a no brainer. If running empty and the wheel arch bothers you, you would have to consider how much it bothered you.
Can't argue with £200 savings!
If you have a layout where you're running 30 wagon rakes(multipes there of as well) of the same wagon on top of passenger and mixed freight etc. I'm gonna take a wild stab and say money probably isn't that much of an issue to you or that you've already purchased them from previous offerings and are quite happy with them.
We had a layout just capable of running such trains, i mean just, it took up a whole room of our house as a kid, not exactly a small room either. The portion of modellers this saving applies to and is thus able to help create a value judgement for in relation to the wagon is tiny. What probably bothers people more is what chance there is of being able to buy more further down the line so as to create a uniform train based on incrementally buying them as and when it is possible. This being said, these or the accurascale ones are probably more a special treat, the hornby ones even second hand are still probably the winner just by how abundant they are and by best odds of being able to get more going forward.
Regarding the free running, these wagons are as free running as anything else on the market, however the clasp brake can be a little off so if you're getting any rolling resistance I would suggest looking at that and tweaking so that it misses the wheel faces.
@@HamStrains but the saving is relative, even if you were just buying a rake of 9 wagons, Acurrascale works out at about £67 cheaper than Cavalex, you could get another three Accurascale wagons for that (with the 10% discount they offer), so they are definitely more cost effective for building rakes. The Hornby (China) models work out about the same price, and are sometimes more expensive than both Cavalex and Accurascale offerings depending on which website you look on, yet they are a FAR inferior product. The 1970's Hornby wagon is of course the budget offering, but you can't compare that to these as it is toy like in comparison, and they don't run very well.
@@outonroad I will have a look at them yes, it was not something that affect all 9 equally. I intend on comparing them with the Accurascale ones properly today, but from memory they ran even better.
The wheel arches in the Accurascale don't look too bad to me. Particularly once the hoppers are weathered, I doubt they'd be very visible. The Hornby model's hopper looks the right shape to me, but the problem is that the red frame is too low. The change in profile of the hopper should be hidden behind the red frame, but it's a couple of mm above it in the Hornby model -- compare the two wagons at 2:33. That seems a bigger defect to me than the little wheel arches.
"Any other model on the market today" - You mean accurascale and HORNBY versions right?
Why wouldn't you go for the Accurascale ones? this is a bit of an advertisement for cavalex, and I get that and fair play to you and them - but what's wrong with them? The Accurascale version I mean.
Maybe I missed that?
Preference, availability, things like that.
The reasoning for not wanting for the Accurascale ones was mentioned late in the video.
@@ringmastermodels wheel width was it?
Wheel arches in the hopper body
@@Wallsrail ah very well, would be great if you could do a compression between the two and point out the difference with each one 🙂 cheers!
Too many of the new detailed items are rather fragile and more suitable for display purposes than actually being used running around the layout, getting their customary knocks and bumps along the way. In my experience Accurascale usually have the odd detail part fallen off in the box when they arrive new! The slightly older and more robust Hornby ones are much cheaper in comparison, especially second hand, and once weathered up they look the part whilst being pulled around the layout.
The prices of some manufacturers are now becoming utterly obscene.... £90 for three MGR....They aren't even bogie wagons! Have word, that's ridiculous and insane! How about we boycott the RRPs and only buy on retailer's offers, of say 25% off or more?
Agreed. I might do a follow up video on weathering them 🤔
£30 is actually very reasonable in today's market. It costs a lot to produce a model nowadays with production costs in China, shipping going through the roof and retailer margins on top. Also the falacy that smaller models should be cheaper is nonsense, the expensive part is not in raw material cost but in design, manufacture and assembly, all of which remains constant throughout regardless of model size.
@@outonroad small factory, highly skilled staff, relatively high chance of lockdown impacting income. Most of the price rise will likely originate in the factory placing a higher price on the run to hedge against loss of income from shut down meaning less production meaning less income. Raw materials does also play into it a little but by and large it will be risk of shut downs driving it up. Gotta extract the same value from potentially many fewer models produced. Either you up the cost and everything is fine which is a win or you up the cost and get shut down and survive, no manufacturing concern would intentionally leave their price structure the same and risk their existence just to make sure we get our fun.
@@outonroad Thank you for your considered reply. I completely understand where you are coming from and your rationale behind your opinion. Unfortunately, however, it is a commonly held misconception that prices are "reasonable in today's market" and the more it is peddled the more people believe it, such as yourself.
Allow me to explain. I agree that all the costs have risen markedly but the entire model ranges from all manufacturers were already considerably overpriced in the first place; probably double or more what they reasonably should have been! So, the argument to justify even higher prices now as "reasonable" is an insouciant acceptance of the previous overcharging. When there is steady demand for these products, as has been the case in the past few years, the manufacturers test the boundaries and see what price increases they can get away with purely to boost profits. This is how markets "condition" customers into a false belief that prices need to rise. Marketing brainwashing!
Because retailers generally work on percentage profit margins on the RRP, in effect the prices rise at ever faster rates, usually double the actual inflation cost of each price rise. The retail profit on a typical Bachmann class 47 five years ago would have been around £50, now it's £120, and far more for sound fitted models. That's around a 150% increase although it's only in the last 2 years any notable extra costs to manufacturer's supply line have arisen. The sound fitted models are the biggest money spinners. The chips actually cost pence not pounds and to blow the blank chips with sound files is a very very VERY cheap process too. If Hornby, at their staggeringly overpriced rates, can until recently sell TTS decoders for £30 retail then why do the others charge £120? Top quality sound chips with quality speakers should be no more than £30 RRP. The models coming pre-fitted from the factories should reflect this but instead they make a fortune; more profit on the sound chip than on the loco model itself!
As for wagons, yes similar costs whether single axle or bogie to bring them to market. In the sweatshops of communist China the production costs haven't changed much. The international shipping rate has increased for all goods. All considered there is no justification for any small wagon to be more than £12 - £15, a bogie wagon £15 - 20 and a coach/carriage £20 to £25. ... Onboard LED lighting? Again, cheap as chips, pennies! A quality new class 47 with sound should be around £150. Remember, they have "conditioned" purchasers in the market!
The truth is that the customer age group and financial status for model railways allow the manufacturers to charge ridiculously silly prices and the mature enthusiast pay it, albeit begrudgingly at times. They are taking advantage of you! If you are happy to be one of their mugs then that's your prerogative. Personally I think we should all make a stand to preserve the hobby's integrity and boycott new buys at their crazy RRP. I have recently acquired newly released Bachmann products at a 30% - 40% discount from major retailers in sale events. If everyone refuses to pay the silly RRPs then I guarantee they will sell the stock at a much much cheap price. Consumers always have the power, but they nearly always don't realise it!
Its not even a case of rivet counting to see just where the Hornby HAAs are so poor. The hopper body doesn't sit in the cradle properly, which means the angle change in the body of the hopper is very visible, around a scale 6 inches too high. Then there are those horribly obese metal buffers, missing brake calipers, huge beam running the length of the chassis, lack of door release linkages...every single one of these being more of an eyesore than the tiny arches in the Accura HAAs. Considering the Hornby tat is about the same price as Cavalex, its a no brainer. If you want the cheap option then the Accura ones all day every day and put a coal load over the arches; problem solved there. Otherwise go with Cav, and their poorly aligned coupler mounts, brakes and other chassis mouldings and have to deal with the awful tension locks they come with. For the record, I kept my Cav pre-order, and wish I'd have gone with Accurascales model instead; its a heck of a lot less work to hide those arches than to fix the multitude of poor assembly issues with the Cav hoppers.
In all fareness yours were the T4U rebuilt and weathered ones. The remade ones solved many of those issues.