Ep9: Best nitrate and phosphate level for a reef tank ? - The BRS/WWC System
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Are you ready to change the way you think about "nutrients" and get a new view on how nitrates and phosphates affect the reef tank both positively and negatively? Today, Ryan explains how reefers can harness nitrate and phosphate to create a stable and healthy tank rather than simply try to remove all traces of them.
#BRSWWC #reefingmethods
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This is going to be one for the books and we look forward to you following along as we attempt to re-create WWC's unbelievable success they've had with the stunning tanks in their Orlando shop, as well as show you how you can do it at home!
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BRS should get certified as an online university so we can get college credit! I have double majors in Biochemistry and Chemistry from a major university and these are the best lectures I ever watched!
The lectures *and* the Lab work!
We get our practicals to see who could grow the best corals
I love the fact that you go at your topics with science and scientific terms. You put a lot of work into preparing the dialogue in your presentations...and it shows. You must have some well educated people on your team there. The information you provide is amazing and free to everyone. Thanks for all you do for the rest of us!
Hey, thanks! That means a lot :)
BRS never disappoints... keep them coming.
Been struggling to get any kind of Nitrate reading for about 8 months so I started dosing KNO3 and KH2PO4 over the last month on the 300 with levels around 3 to 5 ppm nitrate and 0.05 to 0.15 PO4 (testing 24 hours after dosing) and what a difference in coloration. One thing that I noticed was a big drop in alk over the first couple weeks meaning the tank is happy and growing.
Thanks, I will try this. I've been overfeeding and still can't get any nitrate or phosphate. I've also been shutting my skimmer down for a couple hours a day.
Ill have a full in-depth dosing video out the first week of December
@@FishOfHex Did you mention the alk drop in your dosing? . Randy on reef 2 reef mentioned this
Isn't it crazy that we fought for decades to get low nitrates and now many of us have to dose it?
@@jnava121 I'm sure I did
I literally take notes from these videos for future reference.
Fine! You've convinced me I need an RODI system. There goes another couple hundred bucks to BRS. Thanks for these videos.
Teaching the community how to run a succesfull tank and selling stuff at the same time. This is how every business should work.
Been using gfo and algae free except for bubble algae for a couple years. Just discovered my nitrates are off the charts! Phosphates .00 had a cyano outbreak too. Surprised how good the tank the looks
It’s interesting that you guys display and show tanks with such large stocking of fish and livestock. Following the beliefs that low fish stocking is best is just shot by those very nice tanks you display and show.
Another great BRS video - I always learn something new from BRS viideos!
24:02 - what happens when you overdose carbon? I was doing that for a while with my old tank. If you don't have a strong skimmer, there will be bacteria buildups - films on surfaces. If skimmer is strong enough, it will remove all that bacteria, but corals will suffer from too little food - they just start bleaching. I literaly bleached several corals by just increasing NoPoX dosage suddenly. Now I gave up on this method. Refugium with algae is better and safer.
Im loving this series Ryan and Team - it's awesome... I am learning heaps ;) I am also loving the livestream - I think that is an awesome addition. It is a Bachelor of Reefing with BRS160, ULM and now this... amazing. Combine it with the MACNA vids you can get your masters too.
Good points about the different ages of tanks and how the acceptable levels over time can change.
I often hear people asking what others numbers are without realizing that they may be trying to mimic numbers of a system that is much older or much younger than their own.
I also often hear others give advice to everyone under the sun about replicating their numbers and those people never ask how old the tank is of the person they are giving advice to.
WWC tanks are different than most people's because they have a large biomass and are well established tanks with incredible biological filtration due to age. Some of the rocks in their tanks are more than 10 year's old. Trying to run your Nitrates at 20-25 to replicate their tanks when your tank is only a year or two old is a recipe for disaster.
Love these vids..... Reef university!
thanks BRS and Ryan! I am investigating my approach to reduce my 180 gallon softie reef that has 180 nitrate and 4 phosphate and stumbled on this vidoe that is old but valuable. I just finished changing 180 gallon of water and did a sump clean out in a week plus (30 gallons a day) MY NITRATE reading is 100+ nitrate... I can't keep doing water changes this frequently as it is too much work and I *think* this making this amount of RODI water is gonna kill my septic system. Based on this I am gonna try nopox b/c I think the ration of my nitrate to phosphate must be keeping my system in balance... both off the charts but I have no algae and my tank looks good (overinfestation of BTA no sps tho) My sand sifting star fish doing great! I am not convinced on older tanks that 25 ppm nitrate is required. My tank is very old... so I do agree new tanks have new tank issues. I want to get my nitrate to 40- 60 adn then introduce a regal angel fish. It would be irresponsible to the fish to introduce him at the 180 nitrate but I will try at 60PPM nitrate... and before he goes I will move all the rockwork. Little nervous to try nopox b/c I do the minimal approach across the board for my tank....
What if under dose nopox? and what happens when you stop dosing nopox? I know if I overdose nopox my fish die of oxygen depletion... I do have a skimmer and a refugium with chaeto.
Dear Ryan, I'm a newbie into the hobby. About a year ago, I started with a 38-gal reef Peninsula tank (29gal water). I put 3 fish, 1 clownfish, 1cardinal, 1 firefish... and about 60 mix coral frags from the Reef-a-Palooza Show. I've been doing water changes of 5 gal/week until last January. I noticed that NO3 never exceeded 0.50-0.75 so I decided to do water change of the same amount of water but each 2 weeks. NO3 never exceeded either so I just went for the 5gal/3weeks. My tank is doing well, corals have grown nicely twice and even 3 times the size when I just bought them. Now it happens that I checked the NO3 and the result is ZERO when just 5 weeks ago was 0.50-0.75. i repeated the analysis 3 times and the result are the same. I decided to not adding more fish for giving my corals cleaner water. Question: Is it normal that a reef tank turn ZERO nitrates?? Is that good or bad?? Thank you for your support!! Regards from NYC.
Zero nitrates isn't a good thing. Generally speaking, 0.5-3ppm nitrates is our target range for your tank's age. Corals do need some amount of nitrates for optimal health and growth. Good news is that getting nitrates up can be as simple as feeding a bit more, so I'd take that strategy first before doing any sort of nitrate dosing as it's harder to mess up and less expensive.
One advantage of running a fuge is the ph bump and ph stability.
As a new reefer I always come here for my answers. I'm gonna try the phosphat-e. Thanks
Gonna be honest. The best way to success is to keep things simple. No additive will magically make your tank better. I think I speak for many when I say that good husbandry, solid reef equipment, and time+patience is the best approach you could take, especially for an sps tank. Believe me, I've been through many iterations of tanks and tank breakdowns because I kept adding things to my tank I thought I needed when I really didn't. Ooh, a video for a new light, gotta get that one...ooh, a refugium will decrease my nitrates...ooh, gotta fix my phosphates, better get a gfo reactor. Do you see a pattern here? Thing is, this hobby has a dual purpose for businesses. Find a method that works, and stick with it, that's my suggestion.
@@twofish7939 Totally Agree Here, Keep Chemicals out of your tank as long as possible!!!
A very well Cycled starting tank is the key to succes and prevents lots of headaches in the future.
Learn the nitrogen, phosphates and other biology cycles that are happening in your tank, So You Understand What Is Going On.
I know friends who cycle their startup tank for 8 months before 1 fish or coral goes in.
I can tell you. They Never Had A "Biology" Problem In The Future!
The key to succes is Patience Patience Patience.
If you don't have Patience get ready for trouble and start saving money!
That thumbnail gave me shivers
Truth 12:03. Thanks for sharing. Great Video.
25:00 - totaly agree on GFO, good advice.
Thanks for the info. As a new reefer, I feel a little bit better about my plight. LOL Keep up the great content.
Excellent video guys ! So much great info to absorb.
Loved the video.
Uhm did you make a mistake in you phosphate recommendation at 0.5ppm while stating the range as 0.03-0.07? Did you mean 0.05ppm as goal or did I miss the point?
@@BRStv ok 😊 I thought I missed something
@@erich8756 Was it a mistake then? 0.05ppm sounds more reasonable. I think that 0.5ppm is way to high... Was this clarified?
I believe he did mean .5 when measuring phosphate if he was measuring phosphorus he would mean .05 one just measures in ppm and the other ppb
@@rsucre this has to have been a mistake. I came to the comments for the same reason. 0.1ppm phosphate is the ideal ceiling limit.
0.05ppm is recommended more often.
That’s for phosphate. Phosphorus should be be no more than 30 ppb.
Awesome
BRS Fridays, my favorite day of the week!
Nice love this channel gives SO much good info
I think there's a clerical error on at 8:46 when mentioning the "goal" phosphate level of 0.5 ppm? Was it intended to be 0.05 ppm, which splits the range of 0.03-0.07ppm? Thank you for the videos!
You are correct! Goal phosphate should be listed at 0.05 ppm NOT 0.5 ppm. Good catch!
Thanks for another great video guys! BRS gets most of my reefing money (for dry goods)
So often people forget that ideals for pro reefers and established tanks are very different than what is needed for newer tanks and novices.
It's a shame Inland Aquatics recently shut its doors. It would have been really interesting to do another collaboration featuring an entirely different approach. They ran their entire 35000 gallon (133000 L) facility without a skimmer. Feeding 4-6 times daily. Instead, they used algae scrubbers, ~10% annual water change, carbon every few years for pigments, and the much-feared deep sand beds. The system was running in some form since I think about 1993.
Inland Aquatics worked in partnership with Dr. Aday as a kind of laboratory for his book _Dynamic Aquaria_ so I'm guessing many of the principles of the approach are documented there.
Morgan sadly had to close his business, but maybe he'd still be willing to work with you and share the lessons he learned over those 25 years or so of putting the principles into practice. Both Midwestern companies, you're practically neighbors at about 600 miles away. :) Maybe reach out to him? I don't know if his contact info on the company website is still valid, but a quick google search for "Morgan Lidster" pulled up his social media information.
They should make a reef salt with the proper amount of nitrate and phosphate for reef tanks so whenever you do a water change you are actually adding the right amount of phosphate and nitrate to the system
I have two tanks, one mixed reef, one fish only. I maintain them both the same even though the requirements are different. Early on, I thought 3 or 4 months was enough to mature a tank! WRONG!!!!! at least a year, more like two. Even then, ya gotta stay on top of it. Bigger is better also. BY FAR!!!!!
Redfield ratio does work for our tanks and you can see the proof in your own video, where you showed different poluted tanks - it's either lots of hair algae or cyano, almost never together at the same time. But the actual ratio is unclear and I also don't think we should chase particular numbers. It's more about the system telling us what it has too much or what it lacks.
8:10
You’re welcome
Legend
I think there might have been a typo at 13:08 for the year 1-2 box for phosphate - goal should be 0.05 ppm phosphate right?
You're correct! Goal phosphate should be 0.05 ppm NOT 0.5. Good catch
Great video! That's a beautiful little nano at 14:20... what are the little purple fish? To be sure those weren't dottybacks co-existing! Would love to see a spotlight on that tank
@@BRStv That's amazing that they're communal... the ones I've had were always crazy aggressive! You guys should do an update on all of the office nanos! Thanks
These are great. Anyway to donate $10?
Amazing vid! congrats team!
I have several friends, including myself, reporting huge KH swings with chaetos, when some of them removed the chaetos those swings went alway, have you ever experienced this as well? How did you managed?
Thanks for a densely packed Informative video! Is the BRS160 nutrient readings virtually zero in most part due to running a Kessil H1200 over the refugium vs H380?
We run the 120 at its lowest possible setting which is about the same wattage as the 380 :)
What is the best way to measure nitrate and phosphate?
Most of us around the office like to use the Hanna Phosphate ULR checker for phosphate and either the Red Sea or Nyos Nitrate kit for nitrates :)
So is World Wide Corals implying that a tank with no sand in it doesn't have nitrates if it has proper water changes and maintenance? I've been running a frag system 4 years with no substrate and weekly water changes and I find it quite difficult to control nitrates without some sort of controlling device such as a refugium biopellet reactor algae reactor or something else.
I use a media reactor with rowaphos, my phosphates have just gone to 0.00, now from what I understand this is also bad, how do you try balance having 0.03 , should I turn my reactor off now and let the phosphates rise again?
I have placed a tap on my exit tubing from my RowaPhos reactor and adjust the flow accordingly to maintain 0.03, it takes a while to adjust (weekly testing) but its working,
my reactor is never off.
Also, test your exit water monthly, it should read 0. If it's above 0.03 replace the media.
Make and keep notes, after a while you know when its about time to change the media, so you don't have to test monthly.
If your levels stay long time under 0.03 (with the tap closed) feed non rinsed frozen fish food.
Just finished cycling tank and after a 50% water change my nitrates are still off the charts 160+, i cant continue doing large water changes as my parents will kill me since doing water changes with RO/DI is a HUGE waste of water. Ive heard about doing sugar dosing but im not sure. I always thought that nitrogen turns into nitrogen gas after a while.
You could always give the tank more time, or use a method of carbon dosing to allow the bacteria to reduce these levels. NoPox by Red Sea if pretty cheap, and could help to alleviate these levels.
Can I use carbon? If you dose no3 and po4 on a reef tank.
Yep! That's not a problem at all.
Bulk Reef Supply- Ok Thanks
I am curious what signs there may be when your carbon is depleted or too low? Is it something that generally takes care of itself? Without a test how can you know?
In terms of carbon we use in our aquariums (ignoring carbon used for RODI systems), there really isn't a great way to test. Best practice is to use less carbon, but replace more frequently. Every 2-4 weeks is pretty common.
Quick question. Do i have to do a water change. Even though i tested the water and the nitrate is 0 basically and the ammonia is 0 - 0.25 i haven't changed the salt water in about 3 weeks just top off with fresh water testing with the api saltwater master kit
Is this a new tank, if so do not do a water change. You want that ammonia to ve converting to nitrate you should also test nitrite to make sure you are starting your cycle. Doing a water chnage will just slow down the cycle and make you have to wait even longer
@@Brendan_O some what new its about 4 months old pretty sure its went through its cycle as iv tested and seen ammonia rise then nitrite then nitrate after that iv done water changes once a week but dont see the point in changing clean water if the nitrates and ammonia are so low
@@nathanbutler8240 whats the size water change that you have been doing because if it is staying low you could ve removing way more water than needed
@@Brendan_O its a 10g nano with live sand and live rock with 2 clowns 2 little anemones a couple coral and a emerald crab. I replace about 2-3 gallons when i was doing water changes but i stopped because the nitrates are 0 and ammonia is near 0 also so the water should be good right?
@@nathanbutler8240 it sounds like you have done everything perfect so far, in a tank that small that should be about what you want to do
Keeping a nitrate level down that low without dosing a nitrate lowering solution would be almost impossible, you’d be water changing almost continuously to achieve that, I use frozen brine shrimp from time to time for my phosphate source and control that and tune with rowa
Dude my tank is 12 months old I only feed corals my sps is growing like mad I use aquaforest np pro and probiotic s I have nitrates at 2ppm and phosphates at 0.1 some days 0.25 on salifert my coral supplyer says it should be 0.025 but everything is blooming and growing I don't want to change my gfo because it will strip..... is 0.5 phosphates as you state higher than 0.25 should I stop feeding corals
Usually anything greater than 0.1 ppm phosphates and we start to see a decline in coral coloration and growth. Of course, that's anecdotal experience. If your corals are growing well, I might up your water changes a bit (frequency or volume) to help knock the phosphates back slowly over time vs quickly with GFO.
Can you make a tank for beginners with a small budget? By that I mean dont fill full of coral to take up nitrate. Make 2 tanks with little coral.and a load of fish. Make one with Chinese black boxes and one with lights $100 or $200 more to show difference. See how it does for 6 months to a year. Because as seen if we start a tank cycle and pack with coral and awsome gear it works well. Wish we could do that but after cost of tanks i had $250 for coral, $180 for a skimmer, and my 3 lights cost $90 each. It's a 180 gallon
My No3 is around 1 and Po4 0.04 ish. I have a 10% refugium that is full of cheato and I clean the tank glass every 2-3 days. Would I be correct in saying the cheato is using the nitrates and thats why I am not seeing a higher level? I am just concerned its a little low. Im not running GFO or any other Po4 removal method other than a fuge.
Great video by the way...as they always are :)
nice
What is that on the sand in the middle at 10:40?
The API 5 in 1 test NO3 reader starts at 0 then 20 40 and so on. You’re saying 2ppm. Hard to read when it’s so wide spread out between color variations from 0-40. 50 you see a change. I’m so confused. What’s a good test kit that can give me more accurate numbers ?
If you're keeping your nitrates near 2 ppm, the Red Sea Nitrate kit is probably the best option for you. Hanna is also going to be releasing a Nitrate Checker soon that reads from 0-5 ppm that you might find helpful as well.
What product removes both nitrate and phosphate?
If you're looking for one thing to do both jobs, a biopellet reactor or dosing something like nopox is probably your best bet. Or, water changes, of course 🙂
@@BRStv thank you so much. A video on nopox would really help us new reefers.
So what happened to the tank trials videos?
Have you noticed cheato having a problem growing with the spectrum from a Kessil grow light? I added an H380 to my fuge and it virtually stopped it from growing. I had more luck with simple Led flood lamps and have returned to that method. I even had one of each at one time and had a very lop-sided cheato mass. Is there possibly different types of cheato that appreciate different spectrum?
@@BRStv
It was about 17 inches away from water surface. My fuge is also large, about 60 gallons. 3 feet wide. I'm not the first to experience this. Sometimes the Kessil seems better at growing hair algae than cheatomorpha.
I use the h380 and it’s too effective at growing chaeto. Stripped all my nitrates.
Would love to know these figures in PPB rather than PPM as my Hanna tester is in PPB
Here is a link to the conversion chart if you wanted to take a look at how your test results compare!
www.hannainst.com/hubfs/006-finished-content/Aquarium/phosphorus-to-phosphate-conversion-table--hanna-instruments.pdf
Do you think a coral refugium ...may be better then macro algae at removing excess ammonia and nitrates? Lots of corals ...Pom Pom Xenia Coral and other Xenia maybe more efficient at removing wastes then macros:)))....i think a bulk reef supplies investigates is in order:)))) and then we can sell excess coral!!!!
0 nitrate and 0 phosphate no water change and SPS Looking good but I feel that it could look beter if nitrate and phosphate will be some how detectable. any advise?
@@BRStv Than you. I will try that and see what happens if I don't see any improvements I will have to start dosing them.
I'm having issues in my reef tank 135gal I've got red algae growing on sand and rock with water change what's else can I do to get rid of this nasty eye sore please help
I had the same problem happened in my aquarium I used the additive
I forget what was the name but look it up to get rid of red slime you have the following instructions accordingly and it would be gone
Chemieclean or something like that the name
Awesome videos. Very informative
You add all this machinery to a tank, skimmers, reactors etc to take stuff out, only to find your tank is deficient in the stuff that's been removed and you have to buy more to replace it ????.
Tony Sanger like he said, we and technology has become too good at removing things wish wasn’t an issue back in the day. That’s why we need to have a balance of equipment and feeding/husbandry habits. BRS does these experiments so we don’t have to. 😊
Always with the great videos! 👍🏻 So I have a newly established reef tank, just finished the cycle 5 days ago. I run an air driven skimmer which works pretty well I might add. But let's talk aboit Phosphates. My Phosphates are about .09 (hard to figure out in between .08 and .12 on the red sea pro) but I do have a Hanna coming in the mail. I dont want to eliminate them all together, would like to keep them around .03-.05ppm. Would adding a filter bag with some Phoslock help me out? If I put just a small amount in it would it work not so aggressively or would it just lose its potency quicker?
Running some phosphate reduction media should help, but as you mentioned, it'll be very easy to strip the water of phosphates completely, so use much less media that recommended. It's always easier to add more. I'd start with 1/4 of the recommended amount or less, then test to see where that gets you.
@@BRStv Awesome thanks for the response. I will do just that 👍🏻 My Hanna just came in the mail today so testing for Phosphates just got a hell of a lot easier too!
@@scotty2salty327 curious to see, how is your tank doing? it's been over a year
What test kit is being used I have been using the api master saltwater and master reef I have ordered the digital tests but still waiting on them
We most often use the Hanna Checker for phosphate and then Red Sea or Nyos for Nitrate.
@@BRStv what tests would u say r the most important for a new reefer, my setup is a 65gallon cube tank I am using a canister filter that turns the volume over approximately 5 times a hr it has fluval bio media in it I forget witch type to be exact sponges carbon and gfo then I have hydor power heads, live sand and live rock been running for maybe 8 months, a clean up crew and a few corals. Like I said before I have been using the master test kits but I feel they off but my corals r growing and even splitting off and fish look healthy
What type of fish are those with the spots in the brs 160?
Borbonius anthias like $500 a pop
you mean PO4 of 0.05 not 0.5 for the 1-2 yr tank right?
You're correct, goal of 0.05 ppm phosphate. Sorry about that typo
0.5 Phosphate????
I often hear Ryan saying he had phosphate and nitrate at 0 but then I see comments saying his po4 level was .20 in the 160, which is far from zero. Why such different answers?
googIereallysucks probably means.02 being phosphate
I can tell you we have real difficultly getting detectable readings for both but periodically they do poke their heads up and show every low levels.
@@insanity4224 No he meant .2. We had a chat about it a few months ago.
Phosphates < 0.1? Isn't that zero?
Most aquarium test kits can read into the hundredths of a PPM. Meaning, you should be able to get a reading down to 0.01 ppm with most test kits.
@@BRStv Thanks, my Hanna tester read the results as 0.00.
Love all of your videos, but here you wrote 0.03-0.07 phospate then you write 0.5 phospate for new tank ...
Sorry about that typo. It should read 0.05 instead of 0.5
@@BRStv hope you dont take it bad , your chanel is the best , is way better then any other , seriously 😇
I Just really mentioned it because some newbie might be confused.
Keep up the great work !greetings from Hungary
I just ate an emerald crab my trigger bit in half
🙋🏻♂️
PUT PLAYBACK SPEED ON .75 LOL they talk way to fast with too many topics for me to take it all in.
put it on .50 speed and he sounds totally stoned lol
0.5 speed 😂
@@BRStv i love your videos!... Just would appreciate a tad slower pace! The speed stresses me out hah lots of info to take in. I guess im just slow lol🤣
I got My new hanna phosphate checker yesterday and did my first test that show me 0.76 when the 3 minutes was up is this good or bad what should my levels be do we have some kind of chart that helps us out I'm going to do a 30 gallon water change this weekend and I got gfo going too that i started it on November 7th
my aquarium is 55 gallons with a 20 gallon long sump I have two clown fish , one tang 1 pepper shrimp, and I have to blue green chromis and I have a anenome purple tip one green star polyp and small zoa my local pet store told me to do a 20 gallon water change this weekend what do you suggest I do please help me p.s. my Nitrate/ NO2 are 0 ppm and Nitrite/NO3 are 0 ppm when I tested it 2 night ago
I have recheck my phosphate today at 8am my time and it's reading was 0.24
I hope you can understand this this is my test results when I started going this DATE time PH 7.8 -- 8.5 ok 8.1 - 8.3 is better Temperature 78 - 80 is optimal Salinity 1.023 - 1.026 Alkalinity/ Amount added 8 -12 dKH Calcium/Amount added 380 - 450 ppm Magnesium/Amount added 1200 - 1400 ppm GFO PHOSPHATE ADSORPTION MEDIA Phosphate 4/Amount added
Saturday, November 10, 2018 8:00:00 AM
PH 8.2
TEMP 79.5
Salinity 1.026
Alkalinity 12.3
Calcium 0.82=410
Magnesium 0.64=1280
Phosphate 0.24
Nitrate n2 0 ppm
Nitrite/NO3 80 ppm
Ammonia 0 ppm
Sorry I was trying to make it somewhat easy but usually I don't my phosphate was really high when I first tested it when I tested it on Saturday morning before I did my 30 gallon water change it was 0.24 after I did my water change it was 0.67 and when I first did my phosphate back on the 6th of November it was 0.76 I usually don't see algae growing in my aquarium very little I did a video where you can actually see how many fish I have my equipment and what my test results were in the description maybe this will help you understand what I was talking about thank you for taking the time to help me
BALD8BIL check your salt mixture for phosphate. Are you using rodi to “clean” your tap water?
Dude chill. It takes a PHD just to follow you. Explain what things are and what things mean. Jesus
I don’t even have my bachelors yet and I completely understood this.