Anne Boleyn was too smart to endanger her roles as queen in a way so unseemly. I think, for her enemies, it wasn't enough to kill Anne, they had to destroy her reputation, or at least try to
Yes bc Henry needed her name besmirched so he could anull the marriage (he literally turned the country upside down for and was still advocating ppl to recognize her as queen) yet again
Agree 1000% .... however.... the incest begging scene in the silly movie The other boleyn girl.... was done so well, the desperation of a cornered woman... so heartbreaking
I *never* believed the incest charges. I suspect George & Anne were very close emotionally, but never sexually. From contemporary accounts Anne & George were very similar in personality, ambition, education, & interests. I'm sure they spent as much time together as possible. Anne, as queen, was in the middle of a war zone - very few wanted her on the throne, the constant scheming of courtiers, the hatred of Spain & the Vatican. George was her only champion that she could fully trust in and believe in. Emotional intimacy does not mean sexual intimacy.
I've never believed that Anne & George had anything other than a very close BROTHER & SISTER relationship. It was sooo unnecessary of them to add such an appalling thing to the list of charges against her! And, shame on Philippa G for continuing that false belief with her book, The Other Boleyn Girl! I can't imagine how betrayed Anne must have felt when she was killed! Yet, from all accounts, she handled it with dignity and grace. May she rest in peace!
The Other Boleyn Girl is historical fiction, very loosely based on historical facts. People need to understand that authors take creative license when writing a story. If the reader wants an accurate and factual account they need to read from the non-fiction section.
@@reneenayfabnaynay5679 also Phillipa dumb obsession with Richard the 3rd just to make Henry the 7th look bad but who was just awful in the way he locked up the princes's and took the crown, in doing so betraying his brother Edward the 4th wishes.
Violet Durovic I understand that he also had his brother’s marriage deemed illegal, so the two princes were then legally considered illegitimate with no claim to the throne. That made Richard then the legal heir. That’s probably why people didn’t freak out about their disappearances as much at the time. I had always wondered why people weren’t up in arms that their rightful king and first in line for the throne disappeared.
I firmly believe that this was the only way Henry, via Cromwell, could be publicly seen to be right in disposing of Anne. If that meant getting rid of other people, then so be it. It’s an awful miscarriage of justice and proof that the law doesn’t always dispense the truth when in the wrong hands.
Fascinating as always. If the idea of incest came from Henry to blacken the Boleyn name he certainly succeeded. I wonder what Henry's mother Elizabeth of York would have thought of the man her son became
@@Kpink744 She probably would have been ashamed of producing such a selfish, cruel, unfeeling, greedy, unloving creature. What a truly horrid monach. I can't hink of another monarch in English history who I despise more!!!!
Hi Claire! I feel that Henry really didn't believe that Anne cheated on him, or committed incest. It seems that his obsession with having a son, & the fact that he did not want to appear weak as a king, & that he didn't want anyone thinking he could not sire a son, was behind this situation. As king, he had to be above all human frailties. Many innocent people throughout his reign suffered, & or died because of this. How sad. All because of his vanity.
I think Henry feared his subjects & the other world leaders would laugh at him while questioning his manhood and sexual prowess. Wives did have affairs back then, many times because their husbands lacked something. Henry VIII was the king, there was no way he could have lacked for anything. Anne was a commoner, Henry's subjects would easily believe that she was an upstart that wasn't satisfied with Henry sexually (recall the crowds called her the Great Whore). To add in a charge of incest though, that was a whole new level of immorality and a bedeviled soul. The act of incest crucified Anne beyond redemption within Henry's subject's eyes; she was truly a She-Devil. This persona that Henry puts forth makes him sympathetic to his subjects while simultaneously justifying his disposal of a wife for a second time.
Claire, thank you for making the point concerning Anne’s, and also George Boleyn’s piety, and deep faith. The overview of the Tudors always gives ‘faith’ to Queen Catherine of Aragon. Her early days with her young husband are not well known, while Anne’s and Henry’s affair is stuff of legends, creating interest 500 years later. Didn’t Archbishop Cramer visit Anne in the Tower, likely to his great peril, which shows a remarkable concern for the woman who made his rise possible, and could possibly mean he did not believe in her adultery or in the charge of incest? Is there support for the suggestion that the public, which was not a fan of Anne’s, found the charges too much to be believable?
The accusations against Anne Boleyn are what captivated me to meddle in her cause. Even in school I was questioning how a King could fall in love with someone who was supposedly so awful. A King like Henry wouldn't allow that. It doesn't take a genius to add up the no male heir and her downfall, and that is when I fell in love with her.
Dude had people telling him he was the most amazing creature to ever walk the Earth, the smartest, the strongest, the wittiest, the most handsome, etc. pretty much his entire life. It was pretty much inevitable that he would become a narcissist, especially with his court constantly ass-kissing and bending over backward to maintain this delusion.
One of the few quotes I agree with from The Other Boleyn Girl: "If it is a healthy son, the Boleyns will be untouchable." If she had 2 sons back to back, the Tudor dynasty would have been very different and perhaps England as a whole.
@@Tgogators POSSIBLY. It *could* have been that the boys would have died younger, like Arthur, Edward & the Duke of Richmond, leaving Elizabeth to be Queen *anyway*.
Anne was not to have a chance was she? Against the King or the Catholic church. Poor woman's destiny was sealed by greed, lust and political influence.
Tyler L Anne’s death guaranteed that whatever children Henry would have with Jane Seymour would be considered legitimate by everyone regardless of religion. Cromwell cooked up a story and fed it to the king to save himself. He was not afforded that opportunity with the Anne of Cleves debacle. I don’t believe anyone really believed any of it.
Jennifer Chase: FYI: By this time the catholic church had been replaced by the Church of England. The head of which, was King Henry viii. Anne didn't have a prayer.
@@januarysson5633 Consider the other argument, if Anne was desperate to produce anheir and Henry was becoming infertile, who could she trust more to get her pregnant than George,it would have been kept as a close family secret,andiftbe child resembled George so what,he was a Boleyn as Anne was, all things have to be considered
Incest with her brother? Nonsense, a perfect way to rid himself of a wife who did not give him a male heir. His impotence must have drove him absolutely mad. Oh if only Henry could have known that it was HIS failure not any of his wives to procure a male heir.
I think it had to do with incompatible blood RH types-Anne and Catherine were both opposite of Henry(positive/negative) whereas Jane might have had the same as Henry
The reply "his mother was Jane Seymour omg!" Really? You said his impotence must have driven him mad. That none of his wives produced a male heir. All he did was point out, one of them did have a male heir.
Nothing scares an insecure man more than a woman with a mind and a mouth, Anne had both. What attracted Henery VIII, at first to Anne, made him hate her later on. I never believed the gossip about her sleeping with her brother. It was a means to an end, he wanted her gone, and the right word in the right ear, was her down fall. Court was a dangerous place to be...you never really knew who was your friend, or enemy. Excellent presentation, thank you!!
Seems Henry just wanted to get rid of Anne to have Jane. I think he once loved Anne (as he once did Catherine). I suspect the males of the Seymour clan were more ambitious than history has given them credit for, as were a lot of competing families during the high renaissance, including the Boleyn family.. and Henry’s precarious court was a perfect conduit for those contemporary ambitions. Just my penny’s worth.
Thank you for your daily talks. I became interested in the Tudors and especially Anne Boleyn through reading Jean Plaidy's books. She put the slurr of incest firmly with Henry or at least with Cromwell.
Walked right over his grave in Winsor Chapel. Bit surprised as an American I could do that. I was interested in visiting the tomb of Elizabeth Woodville.
What filthy minds Anne and George's accuser's must've had. The charges were of the most shocking sort and couldn't be proved either for or against the brother and sister. Such an awful, evil accusation that could only end badly. They were surely pawns.
I wonder if Henry was beginning to see a pattern beginning to repeat. That is: the wife produces a child followed by multiple miscarriages and still births. So, rather than wait it out as he did with Catherine he decided to quickly move on to another wife after the first miscarriage.
He did notice it. He put it down to God being displeased by the relationships. With Catherine of Aragon, it was one of the reasons why he started looking into getting a divorce, it was an un-natural relationship because she had been his brothers widow. Similar with Ann, when she miscarried a son, in Jan 1536, he was done with her, as he saw this as a sign from God.
Also , if the child born was female , Henry would always be in a hurry to find a more 'suitable' wife ; a wife who could provide him with a male child . I am so happy that his line came to an end with Edward the Sixth dying young and unmarried .
A fantastic reading. Thank you. Some historians state that Anne was Rh- and that was the reason that she could not carry any of her subsequent pregnancies after Elizabeth 1 to term. (I'm a first born who is Rh negative, and my later siblings were more difficult to carry to term.). Have you done any research on this subject? Any Rh negative woman would have much difficulty carrying the second and third child to term if that child was Rh negative also.
Agree 100% with your assessment of the situation. Even though George defended himself admirably, if there was any doubt about him getting off from this charge (which we know there was no chance of reprieve for anyone - King Henry had already sent for the swordsman before Anne was ever condemned) George signed his own death warrant when he revealed out loud in court the King's difficulties in the marital bed. I find it paradoxical that Anne was executed because of adultery, but the king annulled their marriage, so why should she die for adultery at all? They were never married! It was all just trumped up nonsense (as you mentioned, with most of the dates impossible) judicial murder of multiple innocent people. He was tired of Anne and wanted to be rid of her so he could move on and get his son by his new paramour, Jane Seymour and Cromwell made it happen.
Laurel McBrine Art - I’ve read the theory that he had to have her killed to ensure that his marriage to Jane Seymour was truly legitimate. Between everything that went on between Katherine and Anne and the great matter and the annulment and the king’s split from the church and his excommunication, etc, etc, etc...being married to Anne was just too messy and inconvenient and questionable, and even a divorce or annulment would not have sufficed in his eyes. Katherine was dead and he needed Anne dead, too, to make sure he was really and truly legitimately married and to only one woman. What do you think?
It is so disheartening that even the existence of a close and loving bond between two siblings was subjected to such awful and salacious accusations. I can only imagine how outraged and hurt Anne and George must've been upon hearing the charge. You can feel the whole weight of Henry's establishment against the Boleyns. They never stood a chance.
Henry had an over the top reaction against Anne. I think he regretted spending so long pursuing her. It's almost like a child who demands something and when he gets it, he doesn't want it. I think Henry enjoyed the chase and playing the valiant knight. Poor Anne.
I never have believed that Anne and George ever had an unnatural relationship. Thank you Claire for a very informative view on that subject. And I totally agree with the perception that the charges against Anne were formulated to get rid of her, to make way for Jane Seymour. I think that Henry had spent so much time and effort trying to get Anne in the first place, that when he finally got what he wanted and it soured for various reasons he needed to find a strong enough case against Anne. He executed anyone that stood in his way, or those that didn’t produce the desired outcome, and those involved who knew to much and didn’t agree with him. Lust, revenge, power
Hi, Claire! I’ve read the theory that he had to have her killed to ensure that his marriage to Jane Seymour was truly legitimate. Between everything that went on between Katherine and Anne and the great matter and the annulment and the king’s split from the church and his excommunication, etc, etc, etc...being married to Anne was just too messy and inconvenient and questionable, and even a divorce or annulment would not have sufficed in his eyes. Katherine was dead and he needed Anne dead, too, to make sure he was really and truly legitimately married, and to only one woman - Jane Seymour. What do you think?
Brill Claire. Last time we were at the Tower looking at the Crown Jewels we were wondering what jewellery did Henry give Anne, and does any of it survive today??
There are various things linked to Anne that did survive after her death and which are listed in the inventory taken after Henry VIII's death, such as a gilt cup with the initials H and A, gilt bowls with the same, and a few other bits and pieces but I can't remember any pieces of jewellery.
Of course they did not have “an unnatural relationship”. They were falsely accused with this most horrific accusation.I imagine the Boleyn family came to regret their ambitionor ever getting involved with the King. What a sad mess.
KING Henry seems to be more evil as time goes by especially where miss Boleyn is conserned the worst thing she ever did was to look upon his face 😔 my opion .....thank you Claire
Indeed! Poor Anne would have been much better off had she never left France! Of course, that would also mean that Queen Elizabeth I would never have existed, and reigned.
He was a creep, an overweight foul smelling excuse for an individual who had many peolpe executed because of his selfish needs. Good riddance King Hal...may you rot in hell!!!
Anne Boleyn was no saint. I never understood why Anne must either be a sinner or a saint, why can't she just be a normal woman? I mean, listen. No one's all good or all bad. I'm just fascinated by these people that almost deify Anne as some kind of feminist goddess while completely discounting her bad qualities. I very much doubt that Anne would want to be remembered as a sacrificial lamb. I think she would want to be remembered as a strong woman who fought for what she wanted and got it. She knew the risks and she pushed on regardless. I for one admire Anne for her perseverance, her strength, her ambition, and her intelligence, besides her other good qualities, of which she had many. I just don't see her as perfect, because she wasn't. None of us are. PS I am convinced that Henry believed Anne to be guilty of the crimes she was accused of. Cromwell knew that Anne wouldn't go away quietly and that as long as she was alive his (Cromwell's) life would be in danger. Later on, Henry must have ascertained that the charges were untrue (saying "the last queen died for meddling in my affairs" to queen Jane). Just my two cents.
Sounds like hearsay ruled the “courts” back then and not actual evidence. How many innocent people have died and/or had their reputations damaged during that time.🥀
So Claire, I was trying to research whether Elizabeth ever took revenge, or at least some form of punishment towards anyone who convicted her Mother. But alas google and the library have failed me. Do you know if she did so?? I mean I’d be pretty vengeful if my great uncle presided over a sham of a trial that ended up getting my mother beheaded.
No, there's no evidence that she did anything to take revenge. Her uncle, the Duke of Nofolk, had died in Mary I's reign. I know what you mean. I do feel that Mary I took revenge for her mother when she executed Thomas Cranmer. There is no sign of Elizabeth punishing anyone for what happened to her mother.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society thank you Claire. I can’t tell you how much I look forward to your daily videos. I’m always waiting for them to show up in my feed about 5 pm every day. 😁
@@anneboleynfiles Mary the First spent several years with her mother ; her executing Thomas Crammer is but natural . Elizabeth did not punish anyone for Anne Boleyn's death mainly bcoz she did not have any great relation with her mother , being but little more than a baby when Anne died .
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society I think Elizabeth's revenge, if you want to call it that, was by being religiously tolerant, working against not being a tyrant, and not marrying. She used her father as her claim to the throne, the stability of her reign (bringing up her mother would bring up questions of her legitimacy), but in all other waus acted in the opposite way of her father. Her "love" of her father, in all mentions of him that are recorded, seem political saavy of a woman who since she was only a toddler was told she was illegitemate, a traitor, feared for her life, all at the hands of her father. What is more telling than her statements about her father, were the complete lack of her mentioning her mother publicly. She didn't even mention her in a negative light.
I think he realised how difficult it had been to get rid of Queen Katharine and Cromwell knew that he has to come up with something horrible to ensure she would be dispatched with permanently. I’ve always believed that everyone involved in this case was innocent and Smeaton only confessed under torture.
Hi Claire, idk if you're taking questions from here but I have one I'd like your opinion on. Basically, my question is why do you think Henry VIII actually went through with executing Anne (and even Katherine Howard) rather than send her to a convent or keep her in a permanent prison situation similar to Katherine of Aragon. The fact that Henry executed not one but two wives seems incredibly shocking to me if you study European history at large. It was not normal, even if the wife had committed treason or adultery. Even if you simply study English History you can see this isn't normal. If you look at past Queens who had been accused of commit treason those kings did not execute them. Specifically, I'm thinking about Isabella of France and Eleanor of Aquitaine both those women were accused of treason and basically sent into exile in a convent. Even Margaret of Anjou can be seen in a similar light after her final defeat, she was imprisoned not executed. My feelings are it has to do with both women being from lower nobility English families, therefore not having the same outside protection as Margaret, Isabella, and Eleanor. But I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts.
I didn't know King Henry had trouble with sex. I never thought Queen Anne and her brother George had an incestuous relationship. I always felt from what little we know, Anne was very devout in her faith. I imagine they used these charges simply to get rid of her, she was charismatic and beautiful. I also don't think she slept with other men. Although, who knows? Maybe she did have a liaison before Henry
Thank you for having the decency to issue a trigger warning, as a victim of child abuse by a family member it’s very much appreciated ❤️ I’ve chosen to stick it out and watch the vid though 👍🏻
I am going to become a member of the Tudor society! I dont know how I missed that?! I think I am a member of the Anne Boleyn files..? What social media site is the best for keeping with you? I dont have Instagram but I can install it if I need to.. George Boleyn is almost as fascinating to me as Anne B. I also think the incest charge came from Henry VIII, but I tend to lean towards him being the main architect behind it all. I have wondered if the comment about him having trouble in their love life is what set it off, but he had already experienced what it was to have Catherine alive & be married to Anne. I dont think Anne felt like she was Queen fully until Catherine passed. So, I figure Henry VIII knew he had fought hard to make it known that Anne was his true queen so saying she wasnt now he knew would be an issue. Henry wouldnt want any question about legitimacy of any kids he had with Jane so Anne needed to die. I turn around & 2nd guess myself though since he had all of pictures destroyed & tried to erase her from history. This seems to be an action that comes from deep anger &, resentment. .
Thank you for doing this series!!! Would consider continuing this series with just general knowledge of the time. I'm sure you have a ton of interesting facts still to tell!!!
George is one of those figures who stands out from history, I have only been learning about him over the last couple of days, I've ordered your book Claire along with another one. This afternoon I took my daily allowed exercise and trotted across the road to Tower Hill to visit the quite pathetic memorial for where so many lost their lives. There's several plaques on the ground listing a few names of 'famous' beheadings, sadly George isn't even listed.
I never believed in the majority of charges against Anne, it feels like gossip taken into reality. Henry needed to re-assert himself as the penetant victim and make sure Anne's end caused more gossip than her heated arrival at the start of her relationship with Henry. In her last confession she swore innoncence and only felt guilty that she was jealous of Henry because he could live life as he saw fit. Her naturally flirtatious, charismatic and intelligent persona in the end became her death- what had lured the king now was evidence of scandal. He knew Anne could get out of any charge unless it was of the darkest, most sinister type. I sometimes cannot fathom how bitter the relationship must have turned for him not to just divorce her but kill her too.
Henry HAD to come up with something that would get Anne out of the picture, which would completely wreck her name and settle any public dissent. Incest would be that something. Henry's philandering was well-known, so there would have been people who said, "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander..." But incest? Ah, couldn't get around that one. I've always gotten the impression that once Henry was done with someone, he was done. If he needed someone out of his life, he detached himself and got rid of that person by any means at his disposal, without too much looking back, or a lot of outward regret. I have heard he was depressed on the day of Anne's execution. I would hope so, anyway. Somehow, Anne of Cleves managed to stay on good terms with him -- smart woman. By that time, marriage to Henry must have been a frightening prospect.
@@kham7571 Anne of Cleves fascinates me. I wonder how awful her life must have been before coming to England that she was able to see her way to being Henry's "beloved sister". I suspect most woman would have been so angry & offended they would have resisted, but AoC went peacefully.
Nearly, but not quite - if a queen did commit adultery, any child born by her could jeopardise hereditary kingship - if a king did so, it wasn't a problem. I agree about Anne of Cleves, though - she sorted out a very nice life for herself [and kept her head].
Because he said she looked like a Mare(horse). He asked her to be his sister instead of his wife and Anne smart Lady that she was accepted and was given a household and a income. She dodged a big bullet.
If Henry had truly believed that Anne had comitted incest with her brother, he would have removed Elizabeth from the line of succession. Remember: Henry had removed his sister Margaret and her heirs from the succession because she divorced her second husband. It was a scandal at the time, and Henry was horrified.
Thank you for such a thorough discussion of these charges. They make an excellent Deus Ex Machina for a historical novel, although I think that's exactly what it is. I have a cousin who wrote a popular novel about Anne & Henry, and have had a (mild) obsession with them ever since. I just recently found your channel & I really enjoy your content. I subscribed after the first video I watched!
I agree. I don't think the incest was true. I also think Henry added that charge as the final nail in Anne's coffin. I believe that most, if not all, charges were false. Great video.
I think a lot of King Henrys later illnesses suggest a punishment from above for how he treated his wives, especially Anne Boleyn. That was unbelievable.
Can we blame king Henry VIII for being infatuated with Ann Boleyn. Aren't we all? Almost 500 years after he did we still are. Such a fascinating life story
I would love to hear your opinion on Catherine of Aragon's claim of still be a virgin before marrying King Henry VIII . Always enjoying everyone of your video. ☺
Hello Claire. Very interesting video once again! I knew how much I enjoyed your books, but I just now realized how your lovely voice lowers my blood pressure! Thank you for all you do.❤
I never believed that Anne B had an incestuos relationship with George or that she gave birth to a deformed fetus. I do not believe either: 1. She was having affairs with ither men. She might be a flirtratious woman. That is it. 2. Henry VIII never really loved Anne or any other woman. I am still surprised that mostly women want to believe that "he love Anne B the most." That is outrageous!!! He loved the hunt and everything that he had to do in order to have her. Once he had her, he got tired of her. Anne B became just "another aging and nagging COA without the royal titles, period". 3. I believe that the reason "he never loved" Ann of Cleves was because there was nothing standing between them. There was no challenge or church coming between them two. So, "she was simple, uggly, boring, etc..."
.......and again we see how "the evil woman who can't control her carnal lust" charge that has been, so prevalent in history to bring down strong women. What really enrages me is that those stories are given any credit now in their biographies.
I found your channel today and I must say I love your videos, as someone who has a degree in Medieval Literature, I’m so impressed by the level of dedication and information you provide in each video! The research and the argument is everything! I also totally agree with you about George and Ann’s relationship, it was such a nasty charge that was put against them and it just shows just how much Henry despised Ann at that point, as well as her family, and shows how desperate he was to get rid of her/them. He knew that would be a charge that no one would be able to forget or disprove because of how outrageous it was and I think above all he wanted to make sure that she and her brother knew they wouldn’t get out of the tower alive.
Phillipa Gregory poses as a Historian although she has no qualifications her docterate is in English Literature and the only time she ever studied history was at school where she got a E at O Level history.
I am so glad you clarified this issue for us. I have read so many books, seen so many videos, all perpetuating these myths. You've become my "go-to" person for the truth. Thank you!
I just want to give you a great big THANKS for providing such wonderful content! I have been really interested in the Tudor dynasty since I’ve been a child in primary school! My favorite has always been Anne Boleyn! This is my favorite channel on RUclips! I’ve been a very big fan of RUclips, mostly historical documentaries and content. I have been watching your channel for almost 2 years. I only wish I had found your channel earlier, but that’s ok, I can always binge watch! I was lucky enough to visit the United Kingdom way back in 1987, after graduating with my bachelors degree. When I got back, I was admitted to WSU to begin my studies in Library Science. I’m only mentioning this because I took an elective in Late Medieval and Renaissance history. You are a much better instructor and lecturer than I had at university! Just wanted you to know!
I have to agree, I think all the charges were bogus. And if Queen Anne has such a hard time controlling her "carnal lust" wouldn't she have slept with Henry sooner? She made him wait 5 1/2 years? It makes no sense. As for being so desperate to make a son, WELL... I get that, but I think she was smart enough to know that it wouldn't BE a prince if the King wasn't the father and she was known to be pious, nowadays an affair might not seem like a big deal but 500 years ago? If the woman was the "initiator"? BIG deal. It wouldn't have been unrealistic that she could have produced another child after the miscarriage, they had only been married 3 years and she wasn't exactly old.
This commentary just goes to prove how trumped up & twisted these proceedings were. Since when is it lawful, under English jurisprudence, to produce as evidence the testimony of a dead person? If they are dead, they cannot be cross-examined. And accused have the right to face their accusers. The woman could have been joking in her correspondence; lying; speculating on rumours she had heard, neither knowing them to be true or false. But since poor Anne could not cross-question her, no one could know if she wished to correct in any way - - - or even entirely withdraw - - - her allegations. Deathbed testimony can be admitted, yes, if the person knows specifically for what purpose it is to be used, & is willing to shortly go before God (if such is their belief) with the burden of perjury on their soul, if their evidence be corrupt. Haven't all of us repeated something we've heard or read, only to find out later that we were wrong? Perhaps this woman never had that chance. Nevertheless, had she been in court that day to be faced by the Queen, maybe she would have sung a different tune. ⚖️ 👑 ⚔️
It has occurred to me that these people must have been watched pretty closely throughout their lives if only as a function of personal protection. They lived in a goldfish bowl being at the top of the ladder. You mentioned that there were never rumors of any improper goings on and that stands strongly in Anne's favor. Also, if Anne had lots of lovers and the king couldn't perform, she'd have been pregnant very often and the king would have known something was wrong. Ah, but who needs evidence when Henry wants a new wife?
No. Queen Anne had a very strong faith and that would not let her to commit incest. This was just part of the list of trumped up charges assembled to do away with her for Henry’s desire for a male heir.
I've just found this channel...and what a glorious channel it is!!! I've often thought that Anne and all of the wives of this King and (probably many other women of the court) were victims of the times... and it gives me a pit in my stomach when I think of the campaign to destroy her reputation so Henry could be free to marry yet another woman.
Great video Claire, Your videos are a font of Tudor knowledge and I'm learning something new each day from them. I've never believed the charges against Anne Boleyn. I remember reading a quote years ago which said 'When a narcissist can no longer control you they will instead try to control the way others see you' and I think that quote is very true of Henry. Anne Boleyn has so many rumours about her, incest with her brother, giving birth to a deformed foetus, practising witchcraft, having six fingers. It definitely seems Henry had a history of using propaganda and malicious lies when things didn't go his way or when his ego was bruised. It was the same when he claimed Anne of Cleves smelt bad just because she was disenchanted by him when they first met. He was a nasty piece of work.
I would love to go back in time and tell Henry VIII that his daughter Elizabeth becomes a great Queen of England for many decades (and never provides an heir)--so put that in your pipe and smoke it, Sire. (Of course, he would not remember my visit 'cause I can't mess with history no matter how much I might want to...;-) The executions of Anne and George were heinous indeed and I never believed those ridiculous trumped-up charges. Two cat photobombs--love it. Thanks for your fascinating videos--you're my Tudor guru, Claire.
I too would love to go back in time and inform and taunt old Henry with the news that his quest for a male heir came to naught as that heir died young and unmarried so the Tudor line finished in the next generation itself . I would love to see the sick old bastard's face then .........
6falconsue hi sue .... have a look at A Tudor Story by Cannon Pakenham Welsh ..... I’m thinking you would love it. I picked it up without knowing exactly what was about..... a great read. Highly recommended
Thank you for your awareness of some people's emotional state and that some might find to be a trigger. As such a survivor, I am, fortunately, not triggered by this particular allegation, I know that others may be. So thank you for your information done with the greatest concern for your audience. And of course, thank you for your spreading of the reality to what ever extent it can be determined.
They were so religious back then. They wouldn't want to risk their soul. No way do I think that they had a sexual relationship. The men that made up this crap, are disgusting. They just wanted to destroy the Boleyn's as much as possible. Poor Anne. Henry was a monster. My dream is to go to Hever castle, to see where Anne grew up. RIP Anne and George. ❤️🌻
Huh, I'll be honest, I've always speculated the fact that Henry rejected Anne of Cleves was because he was getting impotent and tried to blame it on her supposed ugliness. This sort of strengthens the theory. (I fully admit though this speculation is purely due to vindictive thoughts and has little to no basis in facts ;) )
I just watched The Other Boleyn Girl and found it disgusting and disturbing. I assume you don’t believe there was any truth in that account. Your thoughts?
That kind of accusation was a pretty standard one if you really wanted to drag someone’s name through the mud, usually a political opponent. If it was ever true, it was probably accidentally. If anything, it’s always suggested to me that all the charges were manufactured, because they added something really explosive, just in case.
If it had not turned out so tragically for all of those framed so cruelly, considering how much Elizabeth looked like her father, it seems laughably absurd that anyone would consider for a second that she might not have been Henry's child.
Anne would been foolish to kill the king? So long as he was alive she was protected if he died before she had a son or that son was grown up her enemies would fall on her.
Henry the 8th had all the symptoms of sociopathy plain and simple. Normal people don't go around destroying lives with impunity. Henry used smear campaigns against his wives, blame shifting as well as projection. At times he lost touch with reality and told lies which he believed. He had a form of moral idiocy in which he could see none of the wrongs he committed but a heightened sense of other's sins both real and unreal.
Considering the forced marraiges and sexual encounters all three Bolyen children (and a lot of children of that time period) were subjected to, it is no surprise that they would be close. There was no sexual relationship, in my opinion, just two grown abused kids who basically only had each other in the storm they had to weather. Psychologically, its pretty norm for siblings raised that way to be super close as Anne and George were or acting out against each other to gain the abusive parent's praise.
Thank you for your videos Claire! I belive that Anne was an interesting, intelligent, flawed woman living in a time where that kind of behaviour was a scandal in it self. Henry wanted not only to strike back at the Boleyns due to Annes miscarriage, but because they were of another mind and fabric all together ( than the Tudors). I agree with the comments stated that Henry simply lost interest in Anne, and when he found out she was not his ususal silly conquest, she became a danger to him. A danger that had to be eliminated. And by not following through on the "promise" given him in regards to bare him a son, Another excuse to get rid of her just fell into his lap, and he took it.
So glad I came across your channel! I've been obsessed with this period of history since I can remember. No other American Ive ever met is as interested as I am. November 2 my birthday :) thanks!
@@anneboleynfiles And he was a man with an Agenda. He seemed to despise Anne and I believe she disposed him . They both competed for Henry attention and Anne Lost.
Anne Boleyn was too smart to endanger her roles as queen in a way so unseemly. I think, for her enemies, it wasn't enough to kill Anne, they had to destroy her reputation, or at least try to
I agree. And as a mother, she did what she needed too. in order to protect her innocent daughter.
Agree
Agreed. Unfortunately, they did a good job of it.
Yes bc Henry needed her name besmirched so he could anull the marriage (he literally turned the country upside down for and was still advocating ppl to recognize her as queen) yet again
I think Anne had her flaws (who doesn't) but an unnatural relationship with George us not one of them. Thank you, Claire!
Agree
Agree 1000% .... however.... the incest begging scene in the silly movie The other boleyn girl.... was done so well, the desperation of a cornered woman... so heartbreaking
Yeah agree
I *never* believed the incest charges. I suspect George & Anne were very close emotionally, but never sexually. From contemporary accounts Anne & George were very similar in personality, ambition, education, & interests. I'm sure they spent as much time together as possible. Anne, as queen, was in the middle of a war zone - very few wanted her on the throne, the constant scheming of courtiers, the hatred of Spain & the Vatican. George was her only champion that she could fully trust in and believe in. Emotional intimacy does not mean sexual intimacy.
I've never believed that Anne & George had anything other than a very close BROTHER & SISTER relationship. It was sooo unnecessary of them to add such an appalling thing to the list of charges against her! And, shame on Philippa G for continuing that false belief with her book, The Other Boleyn Girl!
I can't imagine how betrayed Anne must have felt when she was killed! Yet, from all accounts, she handled it with dignity and grace. May she rest in peace!
People will resort to sensationalism to further their own aims. It is a common today as it was in Tudor times.
The Other Boleyn Girl is historical fiction, very loosely based on historical facts. People need to understand that authors take creative license when writing a story. If the reader wants an accurate and factual account they need to read from the non-fiction section.
@@steppy3736 yes, I agree. But, you'd be amazed how many people, especially here in the US, take that book as gospel truth!
@@reneenayfabnaynay5679 also Phillipa dumb obsession with Richard the 3rd just to make Henry the 7th look bad but who was just awful in the way he locked up the princes's and took the crown, in doing so betraying his brother Edward the 4th wishes.
Violet Durovic I understand that he also had his brother’s marriage deemed illegal, so the two princes were then legally considered illegitimate with no claim to the throne. That made Richard then the legal heir.
That’s probably why people didn’t freak out about their disappearances as much at the time. I had always wondered why people weren’t up in arms that their rightful king and first in line for the throne disappeared.
I firmly believe that this was the only way Henry, via Cromwell, could be publicly seen to be right in disposing of Anne. If that meant getting rid of other people, then so be it. It’s an awful miscarriage of justice and proof that the law doesn’t always dispense the truth when in the wrong hands.
Ugh... Cromwell...
Completley true!
why not just devorce her ???
Fascinating as always. If the idea of incest came from Henry to blacken the Boleyn name he certainly succeeded. I wonder what Henry's mother Elizabeth of York would have thought of the man her son became
Stephanie Richards yes I often wonder that
@@Kpink744 She probably would have been ashamed of producing such a selfish, cruel, unfeeling, greedy, unloving creature. What a truly horrid monach. I can't hink of another monarch in English history who I despise more!!!!
Most mothers never “see” fault in their children regardless how blatant
she would have probably said " henry i just wanted to say...u were a mistake. i wish u were never born dear mistake"
Similar to Princess Diana with her Henry
Hi Claire! I feel that Henry really didn't believe that Anne cheated on him, or committed incest. It seems that his obsession with having a son, & the fact that he did not want to appear weak as a king, & that he didn't want anyone thinking he could not sire a son, was behind this situation. As king, he had to be above all human frailties. Many innocent people throughout his reign suffered, & or died because of this. How sad. All because of his vanity.
I think Henry feared his subjects & the other world leaders would laugh at him while questioning his manhood and sexual prowess. Wives did have affairs back then, many times because their husbands lacked something. Henry VIII was the king, there was no way he could have lacked for anything. Anne was a commoner, Henry's subjects would easily believe that she was an upstart that wasn't satisfied with Henry sexually (recall the crowds called her the Great Whore). To add in a charge of incest though, that was a whole new level of immorality and a bedeviled soul. The act of incest crucified Anne beyond redemption within Henry's subject's eyes; she was truly a She-Devil. This persona that Henry puts forth makes him sympathetic to his subjects while simultaneously justifying his disposal of a wife for a second time.
men like him always would have blamed their wives..
jill your words remind me of something Dr suzannah lipscomb would say
That's all it was about...producing a son to continue the Tudor dynasty. And as it turned out it died out with Elizabeth.
🤬 How could Henry VIII and Cromwell and all the other accusers live with themselves after what they did to Anne Boleyn? 🤬
Claire, thank you for making the point concerning Anne’s, and also George Boleyn’s piety, and deep faith. The overview of the Tudors always gives ‘faith’ to Queen Catherine of Aragon. Her early days with her young husband are not well known, while Anne’s and Henry’s affair is stuff of legends, creating interest 500 years later. Didn’t Archbishop Cramer visit Anne in the Tower, likely to his great peril, which shows a remarkable concern for the woman who made his rise possible, and could possibly mean he did not believe in her adultery or in the charge of incest? Is there support for the suggestion that the public, which was not a fan of Anne’s, found the charges too much to be believable?
The accusations against Anne Boleyn are what captivated me to meddle in her cause. Even in school I was questioning how a King could fall in love with someone who was supposedly so awful. A King like Henry wouldn't allow that. It doesn't take a genius to add up the no male heir and her downfall, and that is when I fell in love with her.
What is ironic is that Henry painted Anne as such a nymphomaniac when she was able to resist him for about 6 years while he arranged his availability.
Jean Roughley yes! I agree
I'd like to see a video on Henry VIII and narcissism. Claiming Anne and George were incestuous is exactly a narcissist's smear campaign.
I agree - and also the lovebombing and discard phases of each relationship.
Dude had people telling him he was the most amazing creature to ever walk the Earth, the smartest, the strongest, the wittiest, the most handsome, etc. pretty much his entire life. It was pretty much inevitable that he would become a narcissist, especially with his court constantly ass-kissing and bending over backward to maintain this delusion.
Again like Katherine, had Anne had a male heir. I don’t think this would ever had happen!!!!!
@Elizabeth Frantes This was not known in Tudor times. Mendel's work was not known for at least another century.
One of the few quotes I agree with from The Other Boleyn Girl: "If it is a healthy son, the Boleyns will be untouchable."
If she had 2 sons back to back, the Tudor dynasty would have been very different and perhaps England as a whole.
@@Tgogators POSSIBLY. It *could* have been that the boys would have died younger, like Arthur, Edward & the Duke of Richmond, leaving Elizabeth to be Queen *anyway*.
@@SafetySpooon or possibly not. We will never know. Alternative time lines can be fun.
@Estrellakatarinathegreatrussian well karma has its own way of working, it is not our call on what is karmia justice and is not.
I have never been a fan of Anne Boleyn, but I have never, ever believed that the charges against her were valid.
dont care if you are a fan or not. dislike her based on WHAT? you have information to make a statement 1 way or another.
I'm so grateful you give Anne and all these folks from Tudor history a fair shake using the actual FACTS! Bravo! 👏
When you called Anne Boleyn Queen and then the church bells rings - this is no coincidence
I think ( being in Spain ) it would not be ringing Ann s queens ship.
Anne was not to have a chance was she? Against the King or the Catholic church. Poor woman's destiny was sealed by greed, lust and political influence.
In a way, she was a sacrificial lamb
Tyler L Anne’s death guaranteed that whatever children Henry would have with Jane Seymour would be considered legitimate by everyone regardless of religion. Cromwell cooked up a story and fed it to the king to save himself. He was not afforded that opportunity with the Anne of Cleves debacle. I don’t believe anyone really believed any of it.
Jennifer Chase: FYI: By this time the catholic church had been replaced by the Church of England. The head of which, was King Henry viii. Anne didn't have a prayer.
@@januarysson5633 Consider the other argument, if Anne was desperate to produce anheir and Henry was becoming infertile, who could she trust more to get her pregnant than George,it would have been kept as a close family secret,andiftbe child resembled George so what,he was a Boleyn as Anne was, all things have to be considered
“The Chimes of Doom”, a Tudor mystery.
Incest with her brother? Nonsense, a perfect way to rid himself of a wife who did not give him a male heir. His impotence must have drove him absolutely mad. Oh if only Henry could have known that it was HIS failure not any of his wives to procure a male heir.
So where do you think Edward VI came from? The stork?
@@thomasmiles9068 His mother was Jane Seymour! Omg!!
I think it had to do with incompatible blood RH types-Anne and Catherine were both opposite of Henry(positive/negative) whereas Jane might have had the same as Henry
The reply "his mother was Jane Seymour omg!"
Really? You said his impotence must have driven him mad. That none of his wives produced a male heir. All he did was point out, one of them did have a male heir.
@@thomasmiles9068 ye olde viagra
I believe Anne and her brother had nothing more than a Brother/ Sister Relationship..
Nothing scares an insecure man more than a woman with a mind and a mouth, Anne had both. What attracted Henery VIII, at first to Anne, made him hate her later on. I never believed the gossip about her sleeping with her brother. It was a means to an end, he wanted her gone, and the right word in the right ear, was her down fall. Court was a dangerous place to be...you never really knew who was your friend, or enemy. Excellent presentation, thank you!!
Seems Henry just wanted to get rid of Anne to have Jane. I think he once loved Anne (as he once did Catherine). I suspect the males of the Seymour clan were more ambitious than history has given them credit for, as were a lot of competing families during the high renaissance, including the Boleyn family.. and Henry’s precarious court was a perfect conduit for those contemporary ambitions. Just my penny’s worth.
Thank you for your daily talks. I became interested in the Tudors and especially Anne Boleyn through reading Jean Plaidy's books. She put the slurr of incest firmly with Henry or at least with Cromwell.
'Hey George, how about it?' -- I laughed for 10 minutes. On a serious note, I don't like Henry VIII very much today.
Walked right over his grave in Winsor Chapel. Bit surprised as an American I could do that. I was interested in visiting the tomb of Elizabeth Woodville.
Valli Shepherd l
@@kham7571 Good for you!!!
What filthy minds Anne and George's accuser's must've had. The charges were of the most shocking sort and couldn't be proved either for or against the brother and sister. Such an awful, evil accusation that could only end badly. They were surely pawns.
I wonder if Henry was beginning to see a pattern beginning to repeat. That is: the wife produces a child followed by multiple miscarriages and still births. So, rather than wait it out as he did with Catherine he decided to quickly move on to another wife after the first miscarriage.
I think he did notice that pattern and was afraid that his subjects would notice it as well.
exactly
He did notice it. He put it down to God being displeased by the relationships. With Catherine of Aragon, it was one of the reasons why he started looking into getting a divorce, it was an un-natural relationship because she had been his brothers widow. Similar with Ann, when she miscarried a son, in Jan 1536, he was done with her, as he saw this as a sign from God.
Also , if the child born was female , Henry would always be in a hurry to find a more 'suitable' wife ; a wife who could provide him with a male child . I am so happy that his line came to an end with Edward the Sixth dying young and unmarried .
@@TheBeetress Henry the bastard was the devil himself and looked to God for a sign ? Shame ........
A fantastic reading. Thank you. Some historians state that Anne was Rh- and that was the reason that she could not carry any of her subsequent pregnancies after Elizabeth 1 to term. (I'm a first born who is Rh negative, and my later siblings were more difficult to carry to term.). Have you done any research on this subject? Any Rh negative woman would have much difficulty carrying the second and third child to term if that child was Rh negative also.
"I'll take my leave of you now."
I see what you did there Claire. I caught that." 😉
Agree 100% with your assessment of the situation. Even though George defended himself admirably, if there was any doubt about him getting off from this charge (which we know there was no chance of reprieve for anyone - King Henry had already sent for the swordsman before Anne was ever condemned) George signed his own death warrant when he revealed out loud in court the King's difficulties in the marital bed. I find it paradoxical that Anne was executed because of adultery, but the king annulled their marriage, so why should she die for adultery at all? They were never married! It was all just trumped up nonsense (as you mentioned, with most of the dates impossible) judicial murder of multiple innocent people. He was tired of Anne and wanted to be rid of her so he could move on and get his son by his new paramour, Jane Seymour and Cromwell made it happen.
Laurel McBrine Art - I’ve read the theory that he had to have her killed to ensure that his marriage to Jane Seymour was truly legitimate. Between everything that went on between Katherine and Anne and the great matter and the annulment and the king’s split from the church and his excommunication, etc, etc, etc...being married to Anne was just too messy and inconvenient and questionable, and even a divorce or annulment would not have sufficed in his eyes. Katherine was dead and he needed Anne dead, too, to make sure he was really and truly legitimately married and to only one woman. What do you think?
It is so disheartening that even the existence of a close and loving bond between two siblings was subjected to such awful and salacious accusations. I can only imagine how outraged and hurt Anne and George must've been upon hearing the charge. You can feel the whole weight of Henry's establishment against the Boleyns. They never stood a chance.
Henry had an over the top reaction against Anne. I think he regretted spending so long pursuing her. It's almost like a child who demands something and when he gets it, he doesn't want it. I think Henry enjoyed the chase and playing the valiant knight.
Poor Anne.
Explain
I never have believed that Anne and George ever had an unnatural relationship. Thank you Claire for a very informative view on that subject. And I totally agree with the perception that the charges against Anne were formulated to get rid of her, to make way for Jane Seymour. I think that Henry had spent so much time and effort trying to get Anne in the first place, that when he finally got what he wanted and it soured for various reasons he needed to find a strong enough case against Anne. He executed anyone that stood in his way, or those that didn’t produce the desired outcome, and those involved who knew to much and didn’t agree with him. Lust, revenge, power
Hi, Claire! I’ve read the theory that he had to have her killed to ensure that his marriage to Jane Seymour was truly legitimate. Between everything that went on between Katherine and Anne and the great matter and the annulment and the king’s split from the church and his excommunication, etc, etc, etc...being married to Anne was just too messy and inconvenient and questionable, and even a divorce or annulment would not have sufficed in his eyes. Katherine was dead and he needed Anne dead, too, to make sure he was really and truly legitimately married, and to only one woman - Jane Seymour. What do you think?
Brill Claire. Last time we were at the Tower looking at the Crown Jewels we were wondering what jewellery did Henry give Anne, and does any of it survive today??
There are various things linked to Anne that did survive after her death and which are listed in the inventory taken after Henry VIII's death, such as a gilt cup with the initials H and A, gilt bowls with the same, and a few other bits and pieces but I can't remember any pieces of jewellery.
I love the church bells and your cat in the background.
Of course they did not have “an unnatural relationship”. They were falsely accused with this most horrific accusation.I imagine the Boleyn family came to regret their ambitionor ever getting involved with the King. What a sad mess.
KING Henry seems to be more evil as time goes by especially where miss Boleyn is conserned the worst thing she ever did was to look upon his face 😔 my opion .....thank you Claire
Indeed! Poor Anne would have been much better off had she never left France! Of course, that would also mean that Queen Elizabeth I would never have existed, and reigned.
He was a creep, an overweight foul smelling excuse for an individual who had many peolpe executed because of his selfish needs. Good riddance King Hal...may you rot in hell!!!
Anne Boleyn was no saint. I never understood why Anne must either be a sinner or a saint, why can't she just be a normal woman? I mean, listen. No one's all good or all bad. I'm just fascinated by these people that almost deify Anne as some kind of feminist goddess while completely discounting her bad qualities. I very much doubt that Anne would want to be remembered as a sacrificial lamb. I think she would want to be remembered as a strong woman who fought for what she wanted and got it. She knew the risks and she pushed on regardless.
I for one admire Anne for her perseverance, her strength, her ambition, and her intelligence, besides her other good qualities, of which she had many. I just don't see her as perfect, because she wasn't. None of us are.
PS I am convinced that Henry believed Anne to be guilty of the crimes she was accused of. Cromwell knew that Anne wouldn't go away quietly and that as long as she was alive his (Cromwell's) life would be in danger. Later on, Henry must have ascertained that the charges were untrue (saying "the last queen died for meddling in my affairs" to queen Jane). Just my two cents.
Great love and great hatred are both sides of the same coin. Evidence can always be found to confirm a foregone conclusion.
The bbc miniseries about Henry's six wives has a really nice refutation of this during Anne's testimony, where she shames the men accusing her
Sounds like hearsay ruled the “courts” back then and not actual evidence. How many innocent people have died and/or had their reputations damaged during that time.🥀
So Claire, I was trying to research whether Elizabeth ever took revenge, or at least some form of punishment towards anyone who convicted her Mother. But alas google and the library have failed me. Do you know if she did so?? I mean I’d be pretty vengeful if my great uncle presided over a sham of a trial that ended up getting my mother beheaded.
No, there's no evidence that she did anything to take revenge. Her uncle, the Duke of Nofolk, had died in Mary I's reign. I know what you mean. I do feel that Mary I took revenge for her mother when she executed Thomas Cranmer. There is no sign of Elizabeth punishing anyone for what happened to her mother.
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society thank you Claire. I can’t tell you how much I look forward to your daily videos. I’m always waiting for them to show up in my feed about 5 pm every day. 😁
@@anneboleynfiles Mary the First spent several years with her mother ; her executing Thomas Crammer is but natural . Elizabeth did not punish anyone for Anne Boleyn's death mainly bcoz she did not have any great relation with her mother , being but little more than a baby when Anne died .
The Anne Boleyn Files and Tudor Society I think Elizabeth's revenge, if you want to call it that, was by being religiously tolerant, working against not being a tyrant, and not marrying. She used her father as her claim to the throne, the stability of her reign (bringing up her mother would bring up questions of her legitimacy), but in all other waus acted in the opposite way of her father. Her "love" of her father, in all mentions of him that are recorded, seem political saavy of a woman who since she was only a toddler was told she was illegitemate, a traitor, feared for her life, all at the hands of her father. What is more telling than her statements about her father, were the complete lack of her mentioning her mother publicly. She didn't even mention her in a negative light.
I think he realised how difficult it had been to get rid of Queen Katharine and Cromwell knew that he has to come up with something horrible to ensure she would be dispatched with permanently. I’ve always believed that everyone involved in this case was innocent and Smeaton only confessed under torture.
Hi Claire, idk if you're taking questions from here but I have one I'd like your opinion on. Basically, my question is why do you think Henry VIII actually went through with executing Anne (and even Katherine Howard) rather than send her to a convent or keep her in a permanent prison situation similar to Katherine of Aragon. The fact that Henry executed not one but two wives seems incredibly shocking to me if you study European history at large. It was not normal, even if the wife had committed treason or adultery. Even if you simply study English History you can see this isn't normal. If you look at past Queens who had been accused of commit treason those kings did not execute them. Specifically, I'm thinking about Isabella of France and Eleanor of Aquitaine both those women were accused of treason and basically sent into exile in a convent. Even Margaret of Anjou can be seen in a similar light after her final defeat, she was imprisoned not executed.
My feelings are it has to do with both women being from lower nobility English families, therefore not having the same outside protection as Margaret, Isabella, and Eleanor. But I'd be very interested in hearing your thoughts.
Henry was an awful vindictive bully.
Poor Anne, yet Catherine of Aragon didnt deserve Henry and Anne's treatment either.
I didn't know King Henry had trouble with sex. I never thought Queen Anne and her brother George had an incestuous relationship.
I always felt from what little we know, Anne was very devout in her faith.
I imagine they used these charges simply to get rid of her, she was charismatic and beautiful.
I also don't think she slept with other men.
Although, who knows? Maybe she did have a liaison before Henry
Although he is fascinating in his bipolar, it is sad he had to be so very cruel to the women who clearly loved him.
Thank you for having the decency to issue a trigger warning, as a victim of child abuse by a family member it’s very much appreciated ❤️ I’ve chosen to stick it out and watch the vid though 👍🏻
A really good video Claire,Thankyou for being so thorough with your views and evidence.I feel that you have proved your case.
I am going to become a member of the Tudor society! I dont know how I missed that?! I think I am a member of the Anne Boleyn files..? What social media site is the best for keeping with you? I dont have Instagram but I can install it if I need to..
George Boleyn is almost as fascinating to me as Anne B. I also think the incest charge came from Henry VIII, but I tend to lean towards him being the main architect behind it all. I have wondered if the comment about him having trouble in their love life is what set it off, but he had already experienced what it was to have Catherine alive & be married to Anne. I dont think Anne felt like she was Queen fully until Catherine passed. So, I figure Henry VIII knew he had fought hard to make it known that Anne was his true queen so saying she wasnt now he knew would be an issue. Henry wouldnt want any question about legitimacy of any kids he had with Jane so Anne needed to die.
I turn around & 2nd guess myself though since he had all of pictures destroyed & tried to erase her from history. This seems to be an action that comes from deep anger &, resentment. .
I use Facebook a lot, I have the Anne Boleyn Files page, so that's probably the best one to follow what I do.
Thank you for doing this series!!! Would consider continuing this series with just general knowledge of the time. I'm sure you have a ton of interesting facts still to tell!!!
George is one of those figures who stands out from history, I have only been learning about him over the last couple of days, I've ordered your book Claire along with another one.
This afternoon I took my daily allowed exercise and trotted across the road to Tower Hill to visit the quite pathetic memorial for where so many lost their lives. There's several plaques on the ground listing a few names of 'famous' beheadings, sadly George isn't even listed.
I never believed in the majority of charges against Anne, it feels like gossip taken into reality. Henry needed to re-assert himself as the penetant victim and make sure Anne's end caused more gossip than her heated arrival at the start of her relationship with Henry. In her last confession she swore innoncence and only felt guilty that she was jealous of Henry because he could live life as he saw fit. Her naturally flirtatious, charismatic and intelligent persona in the end became her death- what had lured the king now was evidence of scandal. He knew Anne could get out of any charge unless it was of the darkest, most sinister type. I sometimes cannot fathom how bitter the relationship must have turned for him not to just divorce her but kill her too.
Henry HAD to come up with something that would get Anne out of the picture, which would completely wreck her name and settle any public dissent. Incest would be that something. Henry's philandering was well-known, so there would have been people who said, "Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander..." But incest? Ah, couldn't get around that one.
I've always gotten the impression that once Henry was done with someone, he was done. If he needed someone out of his life, he detached himself and got rid of that person by any means at his disposal, without too much looking back, or a lot of outward regret. I have heard he was depressed on the day of Anne's execution. I would hope so, anyway. Somehow, Anne of Cleves managed to stay on good terms with him -- smart woman. By that time, marriage to Henry must have been a frightening prospect.
Anne of Cleves, smart German, kept her emotions in check, survived Henry!
@@kham7571 Anne of Cleves fascinates me. I wonder how awful her life must have been before coming to England that she was able to see her way to being Henry's "beloved sister". I suspect most woman would have been so angry & offended they would have resisted, but AoC went peacefully.
Nearly, but not quite - if a queen did commit adultery, any child born by her could jeopardise hereditary kingship - if a king did so, it wasn't a problem.
I agree about Anne of Cleves, though - she sorted out a very nice life for herself [and kept her head].
I heard that on the day Anne died, Henry was marrying Jane Seymour. Think that is true?
Because he said she looked like a Mare(horse). He asked her to be his sister instead of his wife and Anne smart Lady that she was accepted and was given a household and a income. She dodged a big bullet.
If Henry had truly believed that Anne had comitted incest with her brother, he would have removed Elizabeth from the line of succession. Remember: Henry had removed his sister Margaret and her heirs from the succession because she divorced her second husband. It was a scandal at the time, and Henry was horrified.
Thank you for such a thorough discussion of these charges. They make an excellent Deus Ex Machina for a historical novel, although I think that's exactly what it is. I have a cousin who wrote a popular novel about Anne & Henry, and have had a (mild) obsession with them ever since. I just recently found your channel & I really enjoy your content. I subscribed after the first video I watched!
I agree. I don't think the incest was true. I also think Henry added that charge as the final nail in Anne's coffin. I believe that most, if not all, charges were false. Great video.
Just the fact that Anne talks to Jane who then tells George means that they were in each other's trust
Glad you made this video to clear up some myths! I just started reading Eric Ives book about her after you recommended it!
I think a lot of King Henrys later illnesses suggest a punishment from above for how he treated his wives, especially Anne Boleyn. That was unbelievable.
Can we blame king Henry VIII for being infatuated with Ann Boleyn. Aren't we all? Almost 500 years after he did we still are. Such a fascinating life story
True
Thank you for defending her!
I would love to hear your opinion on Catherine of Aragon's claim of still be a virgin before marrying King Henry VIII . Always enjoying everyone of your video. ☺
Well, he was young, perhaps sickly because if both he and Mary contracted the sweating sickness, he did not survive.
I think she was. She was an extremely pious and devout woman. I can't see her lying about that, let alone so publicly.
I just love your cat's sense of dramatic timing ;)
Anne Boleyn : Not tonight dear... I have a headache!
Henry VIII : Not a problem. I can fix that!
Hello Claire. Very interesting video once again! I knew how much I enjoyed your books, but I just now realized how your lovely voice lowers my blood pressure! Thank you for all you do.❤
I never believed that Anne B had an incestuos relationship with George or that she gave birth to a deformed fetus.
I do not believe either:
1. She was having affairs with ither men. She might be a flirtratious woman. That is it.
2. Henry VIII never really loved Anne or any other woman. I am still surprised that mostly women want to believe that "he love Anne B the most." That is outrageous!!! He loved the hunt and everything that he had to do in order to have her. Once he had her, he got tired of her. Anne B became just "another aging and nagging COA without the royal titles, period".
3. I believe that the reason "he never loved" Ann of Cleves was because there was nothing standing between them. There was no challenge or church coming between them two. So, "she was simple, uggly, boring, etc..."
I love you Claire. Reading your book about George Boleyn right now. Sending lots of Aloha from Honolulu. 🌻❤️
.......and again we see how "the evil woman who can't control her carnal lust" charge that has been, so prevalent in history to bring down strong women. What really enrages me is that those stories are given any credit now in their biographies.
I found your channel today and I must say I love your videos, as someone who has a degree in Medieval Literature, I’m so impressed by the level of dedication and information you provide in each video! The research and the argument is everything!
I also totally agree with you about George and Ann’s relationship, it was such a nasty charge that was put against them and it just shows just how much Henry despised Ann at that point, as well as her family, and shows how desperate he was to get rid of her/them. He knew that would be a charge that no one would be able to forget or disprove because of how outrageous it was and I think above all he wanted to make sure that she and her brother knew they wouldn’t get out of the tower alive.
I love the euphemism "seen in fiction" for "according to Phillipa Gregory"
Phillipa Gregory poses as a Historian although she has no qualifications her docterate is in English Literature and the only time she ever studied history was at school where she got a E at O Level history.
I would love a video about Kat Ashley, whose life I reckon would make an interesting movie.
I am so glad you clarified this issue for us. I have read so many books, seen so many videos, all perpetuating these myths. You've become my "go-to" person for the truth. Thank you!
I just want to give you a great big THANKS for providing such wonderful content! I have been really interested in the Tudor dynasty since I’ve been a child in primary school! My favorite has always been Anne Boleyn! This is my favorite channel on RUclips! I’ve been a very big fan of RUclips, mostly historical documentaries and content. I have been watching your channel for almost 2 years. I only wish I had found your channel earlier, but that’s ok, I can always binge watch! I was lucky enough to visit the United Kingdom way back in 1987, after graduating with my bachelors degree. When I got back, I was admitted to WSU to begin my studies in Library Science. I’m only mentioning this because I took an elective in Late Medieval and Renaissance history. You are a much better instructor and lecturer than I had at university! Just wanted you to know!
I have to agree, I think all the charges were bogus. And if Queen Anne has such a hard time controlling her "carnal lust" wouldn't she have slept with Henry sooner? She made him wait 5 1/2 years? It makes no sense. As for being so desperate to make a son, WELL... I get that, but I think she was smart enough to know that it wouldn't BE a prince if the King wasn't the father and she was known to be pious, nowadays an affair might not seem like a big deal but 500 years ago? If the woman was the "initiator"? BIG deal. It wouldn't have been unrealistic that she could have produced another child after the miscarriage, they had only been married 3 years and she wasn't exactly old.
This commentary just goes to prove how trumped up & twisted these proceedings were. Since when is it lawful, under English jurisprudence, to produce as evidence the testimony of a dead person? If they are dead, they cannot be cross-examined. And accused have the right to face their accusers. The woman could have been joking in her correspondence; lying; speculating on rumours she had heard, neither knowing them to be true or false. But since poor Anne could not cross-question her, no one could know if she wished to correct in any way - - - or even entirely withdraw - - - her allegations. Deathbed testimony can be admitted, yes, if the person knows specifically for what purpose it is to be used, & is willing to shortly go before God (if such is their belief) with the burden of perjury on their soul, if their evidence be corrupt. Haven't all of us repeated something we've heard or read, only to find out later that we were wrong? Perhaps this woman never had that chance. Nevertheless, had she been in court that day to be faced by the Queen, maybe she would have sung a different tune. ⚖️ 👑 ⚔️
It has occurred to me that these people must have been watched pretty closely throughout their lives if only as a function of personal protection. They lived in a goldfish bowl being at the top of the ladder. You mentioned that there were never rumors of any improper goings on and that stands strongly in Anne's favor. Also, if Anne had lots of lovers and the king couldn't perform, she'd have been pregnant very often and the king would have known something was wrong. Ah, but who needs evidence when Henry wants a new wife?
I love your videos and how sensitivity you approach certain matters.
And I also love hearing the church bells in your videos too!
No. Queen Anne had a very strong faith and that would not let her to commit incest. This was just part of the list of trumped up charges assembled to do away with her for Henry’s desire for a male heir.
I'm so happy to have found your channel! Your analysis is so articulate, fair, and well researched.
I've just found this channel...and what a glorious channel it is!!! I've often thought that Anne and all of the wives of this King and (probably many other women of the court) were victims of the times... and it gives me a pit in my stomach when I think of the campaign to destroy her reputation so Henry could be free to marry yet another woman.
Monstrous allegations. Poor Anne must have been so shocked.
Enjoying your uploads tremendously. Thank you. p.s. Please oil your cat. It's squeaking. ♥
Great video Claire, Your videos are a font of Tudor knowledge and I'm learning something new each day from them. I've never believed the charges against Anne Boleyn. I remember reading a quote years ago which said 'When a narcissist can no longer control you they will instead try to control the way others see you' and I think that quote is very true of Henry. Anne Boleyn has so many rumours about her, incest with her brother, giving birth to a deformed foetus, practising witchcraft, having six fingers. It definitely seems Henry had a history of using propaganda and malicious lies when things didn't go his way or when his ego was bruised. It was the same when he claimed Anne of Cleves smelt bad just because she was disenchanted by him when they first met. He was a nasty piece of work.
In my opinion the only thing Queen Anne was guilty of is not having a son it's a shame that some people Still blacken her name
Your videos make me contemplate the past... I love that!!!
I would love to go back in time and tell Henry VIII that his daughter Elizabeth becomes a great Queen of England for many decades (and never provides an heir)--so put that in your pipe and smoke it, Sire. (Of course, he would not remember my visit 'cause I can't mess with history no matter how much I might want to...;-) The executions of Anne and George were heinous indeed and I never believed those ridiculous trumped-up charges.
Two cat photobombs--love it. Thanks for your fascinating videos--you're my Tudor guru, Claire.
I too would love to go back in time and inform and taunt old Henry with the news that his quest for a male heir came to naught as that heir died young and unmarried so the Tudor line finished in the next generation itself . I would love to see the sick old bastard's face then .........
6falconsue hi sue .... have a look at A Tudor Story by Cannon Pakenham Welsh ..... I’m thinking you would love it. I picked it up without knowing exactly what was about..... a great read. Highly recommended
Thank you for your awareness of some people's emotional state and that some might find to be a trigger. As such a survivor, I am, fortunately, not triggered by this particular allegation, I know that others may be. So thank you for your information done with the greatest concern for your audience.
And of course, thank you for your spreading of the reality to what ever extent it can be determined.
They were so religious back then. They wouldn't want to risk their soul. No way do I think that they had a sexual relationship. The men that made up this crap, are disgusting. They just wanted to destroy the Boleyn's as much as possible. Poor Anne. Henry was a monster. My dream is to go to Hever castle, to see where Anne grew up. RIP Anne and George. ❤️🌻
Huh, I'll be honest, I've always speculated the fact that Henry rejected Anne of Cleves was because he was getting impotent and tried to blame it on her supposed ugliness. This sort of strengthens the theory. (I fully admit though this speculation is purely due to vindictive thoughts and has little to no basis in facts ;) )
As a committed Beleiver myself, I thought the same as you have presented here. Thank you for all the supporting evidence!
Very sad story. I believe Henry wanted to destroy the Boleyn family’s name. He was not happy just killing Anne but also by destroying her name.
I just watched The Other Boleyn Girl and found it disgusting and disturbing. I assume you don’t believe there was any truth in that account. Your thoughts?
Fake just the tudors and the rest if thee drama shows
I’ve only just discovered your Chanel and am loving it
I enjoy your research and thoughts about all the history you talk about. Thank you so much!
That kind of accusation was a pretty standard one if you really wanted to drag someone’s name through the mud, usually a political opponent. If it was ever true, it was probably accidentally. If anything, it’s always suggested to me that all the charges were manufactured, because they added something really explosive, just in case.
If it had not turned out so tragically for all of those framed so cruelly, considering how much Elizabeth looked like her father, it seems laughably absurd that anyone would consider for a second that she might not have been Henry's child.
Anne would been foolish to kill the king? So long as he was alive she was protected if he died before she had a son or that son was grown up her enemies would fall on her.
Henry the 8th had all the symptoms of sociopathy plain and simple. Normal people don't go around destroying lives with impunity. Henry used smear campaigns against his wives, blame shifting as well as projection. At times he lost touch with reality and told lies which he believed. He had a form of moral idiocy in which he could see none of the wrongs he committed but a heightened sense of other's sins both real and unreal.
Vena Collier sounds like Trump
@@MTClassicMovieChannel oh my gosh you read my mind!
Considering the forced marraiges and sexual encounters all three Bolyen children (and a lot of children of that time period) were subjected to, it is no surprise that they would be close. There was no sexual relationship, in my opinion, just two grown abused kids who basically only had each other in the storm they had to weather. Psychologically, its pretty norm for siblings raised that way to be super close as Anne and George were or acting out against each other to gain the abusive parent's praise.
Thank you for your videos Claire! I belive that Anne was an interesting, intelligent, flawed woman living in a time where that kind of behaviour was a scandal in it self. Henry wanted not only to strike back at the Boleyns due to Annes miscarriage, but because they were of another mind and fabric all together ( than the Tudors). I agree with the comments stated that Henry simply lost interest in Anne, and when he found out she was not his ususal silly conquest, she became a danger to him. A danger that had to be eliminated. And by not following through on the "promise" given him in regards to bare him a son, Another excuse to get rid of her just fell into his lap, and he took it.
So glad I came across your channel! I've been obsessed with this period of history since I can remember. No other American Ive ever met is as interested as I am. November 2 my birthday :) thanks!
Wasn't this one of the erroneous charges that were made against Anne Boleyn by Thomas Cromwell?
Thomas Cromwell was in charge of the 'investigation', yes.
@@anneboleynfiles And he was a man with an Agenda. He seemed to despise Anne and I believe she disposed him . They both competed for Henry attention and Anne Lost.