Dragons! They always seem quite important to Morgoth's victories and the protection of his claimed lands. Plus what were they doing during and after Smaug too?
Alternate end question: What if Smaug and Sauron went to war with each other and how would this be accomplished? Perhaps Saruman would play both sides pretending to be loyal to Sauron but secretly "warning" Smaug that Sauron seeks to remove any rivals to him, therefore spurring Smaug into action.
It was my understanding that the dragons were under "Melkors" control and his beings he created. Therefore when he "died" (for lack of better words but lost his physical form for as far as we know permanently), the ones left would be similar to an A.I. that can think for itself and gain its own desires receiving no new orders. some dragons did die. The ones alive like smaug who if memory serves was the last one alive at that time; as well as the Balrog in Moria would have followed similar rules, would answer to themselves as they were "Melkors to command" and Melkor was not there to command them. They were stronger than Sauron, especially without the ring. With the ring, a solo dragon would probably lose. Sauron was a master Smith so he had the ability to make at least fire resistant enchants. Sauron was Melkors chief LT and took up the cause of Melkor but was no match for the powers in the undying lands like Melkor so he took to middle earth where he had more power compared to the field. Destroying numenor was the first strike in this effort and what led us to the events of the first war where elendil died. Numenor was his biggest threat. In all of saurons victories or defeats, I don't recall mention of a Balrog, dragon, or any of the being sauron didn't himself raise/create. And I think he was a necromancer and smither, not having the ability to "create" as the Ainur did. He was a mid level power maiar originally with the name Mairon before Melkor changed his name.
If smaug and sauron went to war it would depend on who initiated. If sauron initiated he would prefer cunning, subterfuge, things like that before open war with an opponent he feared. I believe he would live his deceiver nickname down. If smaug started it, I still think sauron wins only because he has the benefit of defense and must be done in mordor at that point in barad dur, with impenetrable walls that were enchanted and sauron could I'm pretty sure Smith fire resistant enchants for his armor. I think they were already. Giving him an edge. Also if sauron didn't have the ring it would be very interesting. If nothing else smaug could hold siege there for a very very long time. Saruman I think you nailed. He could contend with neither and would wait for his best opportunity to play the victor
DRAGONS Also, perhaps my favorite part of Smaug is how politely he speaks to Bilbo in the books. He is utterly evil but somehow also seems like the kind of guy that's be fun to hang out with.
DRAGONS! "Do you think flattery will save your life thief?".."No" says Bilbo. "No indeed..." Keep up the great work Mellon. Love love love the content every week
There is a literary element that must never be over looked as to the size of Smaug. To paraphrase Gandalf, "A dragon is never too large, not is he too small. A dragon is exactly the size it needs to be."
I’m so happy I refound these creators. I hadn’t watched in a while when History Of The Ages was still around, so when they deleted the channel I couldn’t remember the old name and I thought they were gone. Glad I came across this video and rediscovered them! No matter what the haters say, they will always have my support.
the fact that the armies of dwarfs,elvces,men and even saurons orc/troll forces led by the ring wraiths didn't make any moves on the mountain of gold until news of smaugs death spread shows you just how much fear he put into all sides just by existing on that mountain of gold, every one wanted it but no one was willing to even attempt to fight and if sauron had managed to form a alliance with smaug (likely by offering him more treasure and also healing/restoring his missing scale) the bad guys would have most likely won since smaug could wipe out whole armies on his own or atleast cause enough chaos to disrupt there forces that the orcs/trolls could/would come/go in and shred through the disrupted armies on the good guys side.
Interesting how the dragon's share the same greed, brutality and lust for special jewels crafted by others same as their creator (Morgoth/Melkor). It really does show that his power is still in play and bubbling up until the last battle.
I think Weta Digital and Peter Jackson nailed Smaugs size, he looked fantastic and installed fear and awe. It'll be interesting to see what they do if they ever portray the larger Dragons like Ancalagon and Glaurung.
He was a Ginormous winged dragon that was slain by a half elf/half man carrying a silmaril in a flying boat. They fought for 3 days. When Ancalagon was slain he broke all 3 peaks of Thangorrodrim. That's about all we know
I had the same thought. And there is the possibility that with the Ring, Sauron could have made both Smaug and the Balrog his servants. Sauron, Smaug, Balrog, Witch-king of Angmar, six additional Ringwraiths, Gothmog, and the Mouth of Saroun makes for a truly terrifying contemplation of the possible upper echelons of Sauron's counsels and might, especially if he wields the ring.
@@jayt9608 its never stated that sauron could make them is servants, more like allies, generals, but never taking away their will. Smaug and the balrog would still have their own wills and desires unlike the nazgul. How could sauron corrupt smaug or the balrog? The balrog was the same as sauron, both Maier. And smaug was something completely different but its never stated that dragons weren't just corrupted Maier as well. Considering Maier and take on whatever form they choose. Just saying I don't think sauron could make them be his servants. I think that they would however willing let sauron be the top dog and reap all the rewards for being saurons top dogs.
Dragons!! Thanks for the research, amazing how intricately detailed and deep the great Tolkiens creativity ran. No doubt he probably only revealed a portion of it to the world, too cool.
Great video! But slight correction at 13:30 - the thrush overheard Bilbo talking to the DWARVES about Smaug’s armor, the thrush did NOT hear the conversation directly with Smaug (indeed, the dragon was unaware of the flaw in his armor meaning he could not have discussed it with Bilbo) Thanks for the content!
Dragons! I remember seeing this one book that explored what was basically a Tolkien/Middle Earth version of the "What If. . . ?" series. One of the stories was "What if Sauron knew about the dragons of the north, and recruited Smaug into his forces, either before the events of The Hobbit, or before the events of Lord of the Rings? In it, Sauron basically struck a deal with Smaug where he implied that each major kingdom had its own store of gold, treasure, and other material wealth, especially the elven kingdoms. So, if he were to help him take over Middle Earth by fighting alongside his armies of orcs, he could have all the treasure of all the kingdoms of elves men, and the remaining dwarf kingdoms. But that's not all. As orcs in Sauron's army often would have armor plating not only worn on them, but even imbedded into the very flesh of their bodies, Sauron had Smaug outfitted with similar protection for battle. Sauron had Smaug outfitted with dragon armor, (which was mostly a large breastplate to cover Smaug's hole from the missing scale on his left breast). It didn't have a full "alternate ending" story about what would have happened to Middle Earth if Sauron had Smaug on his side. Instead, it just posed this hypothetical of Sauron offering to Smaug the treasure of any kingdom he could help him conquer, and giving him armor to cover his one weakness, then leaving the rest to the imagination of the readers.
Just got this video in my recommendations, just subscribed and gotta say the channel looks FANTASTIC, this is new to me and I’m glad I found this channel, very well made and informative video! ✌️
Maybe Sauron would craft some plates of mitril armor to cover Smaug's weak spot, making him nigh invincible again. Maybe he would even go "Hey Smaug, if you bring down the gates of Minas Tirith you can keep all the treasure we plunder from it". In my eyes Gandalf made the right call there.
Alternate end question: What if Smaug and Sauron went to war with each other and how would this be accomplished? Perhaps Saruman would play both sides pretending to be loyal to Sauron but secretly "warning" Smaug that Sauron seeks to remove any rivals to him, therefore spurring Smaug into action.
Too bad Saruman of Many Colors was too much of a selfish puss to try to interact with a dragon even through any minions. Unlike Gandalf using minions like great pawn plays. Gandalf the Black Hearted.
Sauron would not want or need smaug. That's how sauron thinks anyway. As far as sauron is concerned smaug being asleep in the mountain is a good thing. Besides once sauron reclaimed the one ring even smaug would not be a challenge to him. Smaug although proud and arrogant would probably be very open to an alliance with sauron though. If sauron is ti be lord of the earth than why not be in his favor? Why not be a king under sauron? There is no downside for smaug aligning with sauron. I'm pretty sure sauron couldn't corrupt or manipulate smaug. Smaug was very intelligent, just as evil as sauron, what I'm saying is I feel very much so if sauron himself went to smaug that smaug would definitely agree to an alliance.
I think that would make a great what if video! What if Smaug had eaten Bilbo and gotten the ring of power stuck over a tooth, affording the dragon unimaginable power that Sauron desires to the point of war with the dragon?
I don't think the ring would actually affect Smaug, or dragons in general, this is just my personal opinion, but Dragons in Tolkiens work don't seem to be easily dominated by others wills. I mean take Glaurung for example, he was a half grown dragon, he defied Morgoths orders and showed himself to the elves, some 200 years before he was meant too. This angered Morgoth but it also means that Morgoth couldn't dominate him with his will, like he could with almost everything else except probably Sauron himself. It seems that dragons are just over powered as hell in this universe, i mean Smaug was killed by sheer luck and even then, the person with the luck needed to be insanely skilled with a bow, which Bard clearly was.
"My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!" -Smaug, 'The Hobbit'.
Dragons! I think an alliance between Smaug and Sauron might have been disastrous. If Gandalf happened to meet Thorin just as he was pondering how to prevent such an alliance, this meeting could have been more than coincidence. After all, it is suggested by Gandalf himself at the end of The Hobbit that there might have been some sort of fate/providence or something to that effect involved in Bilbo's adventures, and more allusions to prophesies and suchlike are part of LoTR. If that be the case, then the meeting of Thorin and Gandalf and the subsequent destruction of Smaug might have happened so that Smaug and Sauron would not team up and destroy the forces of good.
If Smaug survived till the alliance was made.. I feel like Sauron would strategically use Sauron via persuasion of "more treasure hoards".. so because of this I don't reckon Bard would be the one to slay Smaug.. I think it'll be Legolas or someone else that's proficient with the bow. (ofcourse.. they need the black arrow)
One can wonder if Smaug consumed one of the dwarven rings of power. Its stated by Gandalf that no living dragon since Smaug was powerful enough to do this and not many other candidates emerge.
If Smaug were to have had teamed up with Sauron then for sure the outcome would have been quite different. First of all, his desire for revenge and protectiveness of his gold would have something greater to rival it. It is his egocentrism that inevitably leads him to take a risk that he did not even realize was a risk. Sauron would have been able to put another voice in his mind so that Smaug would not act purely on emotional drive in that instance (and other potential instances that could arise in the future). Sauron would also most likely be more cunning in realizing their own weaknesses and how they could be exploited, something again which Smaug failed to take into full account. So in short, yes I do indeed believe that if they were to have teamed up together, they would have sealed the fate of middle-earth. No doubt in my mind. Even the fact that Smaug got killed is still a pure chance and string of coincidences, and nobody would have been able to oppose them in time, nor have the might to repel either one through sheer physical power alone. Smaug would also have the ability to mobilize immediate and devastating assaults at a moment's notice, anywhere within the gaze of Sauron. Nobody would be able to prepare and withstand any assault that the two would undertake together. No army of 10s of thousands of soldiers from any race could ever oppose them, as numbers mean little when faced with the wrath of a Dragon and a grander being as Sauron himself.
It could've been very bad had Sauron persuaded Smaug to join him during the war of the ring. But then it may have turned into one of those situations where after they were successful, Smaug might've turned on Sauron like Ungoliant did to Morgoth after they stole the silmarils and destroyed the two trees.
"I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong strong, Their in the shadows!" -- Smaug to Bilbo.
I think Nerd of the Rings did a video on if Smaug and Sauron had formed an alliance. With Smaug, Sauron took over all of northern Middle Earth very quickly, leaving only Gondor to stand against Sauron. But Gondor by itself was not strong enough to face Sauron, and so Sauron easily conquered Gondor, and now all of Middle Earth was under his domination.
I’ve always wondered why the ring didn’t reveal itself to Smaug/Smaug didn’t sense it. With the watcher in the water wasn’t it drawn to the presence of the ring? And as Smaug is such a powerful and evil being wouldn’t the ring benefit from just slipping of of Bilbos hand?
Well, I imagine the ring didn’t want to come into Smaug’s possession. It’s main goal is always to return to Sauron but if a being like Smaug came into possession of the ring not even Sauron would have the might to get it back.
@Pilum gave a good answer inside the Legendarium. Now, an answer bound to reality: The Hobbit was never intended to be part of The Legendarium. At first it was just a bedtime story for kids. And in it, the ring was a mere magical ring that could turn its wearer invisible. Since Tolkien never fully rewrote The Hobbit to fit in the lore properly, ee will never have a real answer to this question
@@pilum3705 I'm not so sure on how much agency the Ring has to n wanting to return to Sauron, otherwise I don't think Tolkien would've described a The One bearing Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel or Elessar as credible threats to Sauron, plus Smeagol spent centuries living near Sauron in both Dol Guldur and Mordor without being detected. I think The One Ring is a much more independent thing than people give it credit, probably due to Peter Jackson's insistence that the ring is Sauron's and Sauron's alone.
I've never understood what, exactly, Gandalf's plan for actually defeating Smaug was. It seems a lot like his plan is "You guys go up to his mountain and piss him off until he flies back home."
Presumably Gandalf the Grey knew Bard, i.e the dragon had a weakness and a man could slay him if he exposed himself. Shoots him dead. It seems a mere chance but then he is a wizard
Having only the information in this video to go on, (as i haven't read the book recently enough to remember), it appears as though the thrush that told Bard the bowman about Smaug's weakness, overheard Bilbo's *INTERNAL THOUGHTS*. It's stated that the thrush overheard the conversation, but the weakness wasn't mention in the conversation, only internally.
I think Smaug and Sauron would have been an undefeatable alliance ... for like 5 minutes. Then they would have quarreled over power and with a little bit of luck the west could have watched them killing each others assets of until one is defeated and the other in ruins. And then Boromir would have easily walked into Mordor and finished of the rest.
I reckon Smaug and Sauron would have made a formidable force, until the Ring came into the picture, the dragon would have been corrupted pretty quickly by it. Then the story would really begin!
Could Sauron and Smaug have teamed up? Yes and no. Smaug had his own mind (twisted as that may have been) but he didn't need Sauron - Sauron needed him. Smaug already had a great treasure hoard (probably the biggest known in Middle Earth), what could Sauron tempt him with, there were no more great treasure hoards out there to "con" him with and no doubt that Smaug would have already be aware of this as he was equally as cunning and mistrustful as Sauron. Of course that doesn't mean that Sauron wouldn't have tried, as having a dragon at his disposal would have enhanced his army and caused TERROR among his enemies. However, I think the Balrog would have been a different matter indeed and would have most likely been more ready to join him. The Balrog and Smaug.....now that might have swayed it in favour of Sauron in the end.... Interesting thought.
I think it unlikely the Smaug would wish to ally with Sauron.. the dragons of Tolkiens legendarium are unconcerned about most things going on in middle earth, they tend to only be interested in hoards of treasure. Maybe if Sauron offered Smaug much treasure he might have agreed to an alliance but where would Sauron obtain such treasure? The rings would be of little interest to any dragon even if Sauron would part with them again, and the orcs of Moria did not answer to Sauron so he could not have got anything from there.
What use do dragons get from treasure? They never buy anything...they just like shiny stuff, or derive some kind of energy/power from it? Mind you...I do love cool dragons!
Yea I think the lore in the books is that gold makes a comfy bed for them, with the added side effect: the metal gets embedded in their soft underbellies.
I love the fact that (excluding Smaug) there is little information to anything happening in the first age or the creatures created by Melkor. Here a sentence, there a reference but thats mostly it. We dont even know how many Balrogs existed. It could be thousands or only 7 ... Tolkien was so vague in his explanations ... but in the 21st century, suddenly an army of youtube-Tolkien experts make 20 minute videos on creatures that prior existed only in a sentence or two xD
Depends of which Smaug we are talking about, the young Smaug is clever and wise while the old Smaug is boastful and cocky despite his strength he was put down immediately because he lower his guard. Also the information of Smaug weakness will greatly a big factor for a victory of alliance despite having Sauron and Smaug combinations. The great alliance will win against Sauron and old Smaug but Sauron and young Smaug the great alliance have no chance.
i think that if smaug and sauron would have an alliance that then smaug wouldnt get dead because he would be able to resist all arrows and spears and sauron would probbably give him an armor
An alliance, and perhaps a subtle one, is what happened between Sauron and Smaug to slowly weaken Middle Earth starting with the backbone of the mighty dwarfs: their wealth and pride. Smaug knew that he would be safe and protected inside the mountain and exposing himself in the open field to aid Sauron in battle would have been his weakness, so they strike a deal where the dragon would destroy the dwarf by taking away their precious, Sauron would have one less worry knowing his enemy would start from a weak spot.
Smaug would have been a devastating addition to Sauron's forced for sure. If he doesn't use the dragon for the siege of Gondor, Smaug could still completely wreck the human and elven defenses up north and in Mirkwood. If you go with the idea that Glorfindel was up that way during the war then it's maybe not entirely hopeless, but still. If Smaug was unleashed on Minas Tirith though, on top of everything else Sauron threw at the city...oh dear.
Smaug would likely have been kept as a reserve weapon by sauron, to be unleashed only if conventional means failed, fearing treachery from a being whose loyalty is not to him. Thus, Smaug would likely have been unleashed at the battle of the pelenor fields, after the witch king was defeated. Smaug would have incinerated the rohhirim burned the white tree to ash before feasting on the remaining defenders of the white city. Aragorn and the army of the dead would not make a difference to Smaug who could simply fly away. Now if we had eagles in that battle carry undead warriors to Smaug he might be killed, but chances are Smaug would simply retreat to Mordor after crippling the armies of both Rohan and Gondor. Aragorn would likely still have to release the army of the dead after that battle which means that the final attack of sauron would be against the few survivors of the battle, and any additional warriors of Gondor or Rohan that trickle in to reinforce them. Galadriel and thranduril might be able to send reinforcements if they were contacted fast enough, but the dwarves would take too long. So sauron would likely empty Mordor in an epic final assault with Smaug acting as a bomber, softening the defenses and creating chaos before and during the battle. Unless Smaug dies, victory goes to sauron.
I always figure Bilbo could have saved a lot of trouble towards the end by donating his 1/14th share of the treasure to Elves and Men. It was in his contract. That was his. Thorin would have had to respect that, and Bilbo could have just given the stone to Thorin as an act of good faith as well, ending rhe feud in time to rally against the 4:41 goblin army. Just me.
Like the beautiful Welsh flag you put into the video and thats got nothing to do with me being Welsh either...well maybe a little bit....Cymru am byth! Good Vid!
Here are a couple of points to consider as to Smaug's size, bearing in mind that we are discussing a fantasy sitting where almost anything can be. Smaug must have been able to fit through the front gate of the mountain. Certainly he could not have been twice the size of a jumbo jet. Why would the Dwarves hew a gate any larger than necessary from unproductive stone? Say perhaps large enough to permit the passage of the largest wagon they thought they would ever need pass the gate. Also, Smaug was felled by a single arrow. Even considering that his skin was relatively soft under the missing scale and that the arrow passed though lung tissue into the heart, no arrow launched by a human would have the momentum to reach the heart of a creature two times the size of a 747. Personally, I think Smaug's chest or thorax could not be much larger than twice the size of the chest of an adult male African elephant or approximately the same size as a blue whale. So, approximately 30m long over all, with a skull 6 meters long, teeth 10-15cm, claws over 1m long, covered in scales that would be nearly impossible for a very strong man to penetrate with a very sharp spear, capable of flying at speeds up to 200kph and spewing fire around 1500c. Fearsome enough if you don't happen to have an A-10 Thunderbolt II handy.
Smaug's size is hinted in the book: He was unable to fit his whole head and jaws through the 5 ft tall secret passageway, and Bard fired the Black Arrow at such proximity and with such power that it vanished into Smaug's belly. But I agree with you that it's very unlikely that he was as massive as the films portrays him.
Dragons! Love me some dragons. If Sauron or someone under his control could bolster Smaug's defense or abilities I think that would be quite dangerous for Middle Earth. Seems as it is he could be brought down, even if at a cost.
Dragons! I think smaug dying should have been the climax of the second film instead of the third film, but Peter Jackson did an incredible job depicting smaug the great and terrible.
A weird thing to me has always been how Smaug was a young dragon when he arrived, but then less than 200 years later, he's "old and strong". Dragons live practically forever, yet in less than the lifetime of a dwarf, he became so much stronger? Glaurung could've taken a lesson from him. I always thought it would be cool to have seen the two evils team up. I wonder if Smaug could have burned the forests around Rivendell and Lothlorien, exposing the elves to disaster? Not sure Sauron could have persuaded him to fly so far from his hoard, of course.
I am fire… I am DEATH!
Do you think Peter Jackson did a good or bad job with his depiction of Smaug in the movies?
His grand presence and high thoughts of himself were quite well done. His attacks could have been better depicted.
Woonderful
Great job and Benedict did an amazing job giving him life! Watching him do the mocap is super cool
i think he did a great job
In terms of cinematic presence: rather good
In terms of book compliance: not good, not tragic however
DRAGONS! My favourite mythological creatures, would love to learn more about them, especially the ones from Middle Earth!
learn how to spell
Dragons! They always seem quite important to Morgoth's victories and the protection of his claimed lands. Plus what were they doing during and after Smaug too?
I think... they all died, no? 😳
No stories tell
Alternate end question: What if Smaug and Sauron went to war with each other and how would this be accomplished?
Perhaps Saruman would play both sides pretending to be loyal to Sauron but secretly "warning" Smaug that Sauron seeks to remove any rivals to him, therefore spurring Smaug into action.
It was my understanding that the dragons were under "Melkors" control and his beings he created. Therefore when he "died" (for lack of better words but lost his physical form for as far as we know permanently), the ones left would be similar to an A.I. that can think for itself and gain its own desires receiving no new orders. some dragons did die. The ones alive like smaug who if memory serves was the last one alive at that time; as well as the Balrog in Moria would have followed similar rules, would answer to themselves as they were "Melkors to command" and Melkor was not there to command them. They were stronger than Sauron, especially without the ring. With the ring, a solo dragon would probably lose. Sauron was a master Smith so he had the ability to make at least fire resistant enchants.
Sauron was Melkors chief LT and took up the cause of Melkor but was no match for the powers in the undying lands like Melkor so he took to middle earth where he had more power compared to the field. Destroying numenor was the first strike in this effort and what led us to the events of the first war where elendil died. Numenor was his biggest threat.
In all of saurons victories or defeats, I don't recall mention of a Balrog, dragon, or any of the being sauron didn't himself raise/create. And I think he was a necromancer and smither, not having the ability to "create" as the Ainur did. He was a mid level power maiar originally with the name Mairon before Melkor changed his name.
If smaug and sauron went to war it would depend on who initiated. If sauron initiated he would prefer cunning, subterfuge, things like that before open war with an opponent he feared. I believe he would live his deceiver nickname down.
If smaug started it, I still think sauron wins only because he has the benefit of defense and must be done in mordor at that point in barad dur, with impenetrable walls that were enchanted and sauron could I'm pretty sure Smith fire resistant enchants for his armor. I think they were already. Giving him an edge. Also if sauron didn't have the ring it would be very interesting. If nothing else smaug could hold siege there for a very very long time.
Saruman I think you nailed. He could contend with neither and would wait for his best opportunity to play the victor
I'm a bit late to it but CONGRATULATIONS on 100K! that's fantastic. Love the quality you put out. Great research and presenation. A winner is you! 💚
Steve! What Bar is Smaug?!
Thank you! Love your channel by the way!
Super excited to catch a new video right at release! Let's do this!!! Oh... and also... DRAGONS!
DRAGONS
Also, perhaps my favorite part of Smaug is how politely he speaks to Bilbo in the books. He is utterly evil but somehow also seems like the kind of guy that's be fun to hang out with.
one of the most interesting dragons in fiction this shall be a treat
DRAGONS! "Do you think flattery will save your life thief?".."No" says Bilbo. "No indeed..."
Keep up the great work Mellon. Love love love the content every week
Dragons! I’d like to see more about dragons! (Didn’t know you were Welsh, that’s neat.)
Red dragon cheese
There is a literary element that must never be over looked as to the size of Smaug. To paraphrase Gandalf, "A dragon is never too large, not is he too small. A dragon is exactly the size it needs to be."
Honestly, the people at WETA nailed Smaug in size and design. It's canon as far as I'm concerned
Agreed 💯
I’m so happy I refound these creators. I hadn’t watched in a while when History Of The Ages was still around, so when they deleted the channel I couldn’t remember the old name and I thought they were gone. Glad I came across this video and rediscovered them! No matter what the haters say, they will always have my support.
the fact that the armies of dwarfs,elvces,men and even saurons orc/troll forces led by the ring wraiths didn't make any moves on the mountain of gold until news of smaugs death spread shows you just how much fear he put into all sides just by existing on that mountain of gold, every one wanted it but no one was willing to even attempt to fight and if sauron had managed to form a alliance with smaug (likely by offering him more treasure and also healing/restoring his missing scale) the bad guys would have most likely won since smaug could wipe out whole armies on his own or atleast cause enough chaos to disrupt there forces that the orcs/trolls could/would come/go in and shred through the disrupted armies on the good guys side.
Interesting how the dragon's share the same greed, brutality and lust for special jewels crafted by others same as their creator (Morgoth/Melkor). It really does show that his power is still in play and bubbling up until the last battle.
I think Weta Digital and Peter Jackson nailed Smaugs size, he looked fantastic and installed fear and awe.
It'll be interesting to see what they do if they ever portray the larger Dragons like Ancalagon and Glaurung.
Dragons! I can never be bored of dragons and I'm interested to see more videos about Tolkien's dragons, especially Scatha and Glaurung.
I would LOVE to know more about Ancalagon the Black!
He was a Ginormous winged dragon that was slain by a half elf/half man carrying a silmaril in a flying boat. They fought for 3 days. When Ancalagon was slain he broke all 3 peaks of Thangorrodrim. That's about all we know
Dragons! Dragons! Tolkien really left that area of his universe far too unexplored for my tastes.
Imagine a Axis-style alliance between Sauron, Smaug and the Balrog....yoiks!
I had the same thought. And there is the possibility that with the Ring, Sauron could have made both Smaug and the Balrog his servants.
Sauron, Smaug, Balrog, Witch-king of Angmar, six additional Ringwraiths, Gothmog, and the Mouth of Saroun makes for a truly terrifying contemplation of the possible upper echelons of Sauron's counsels and might, especially if he wields the ring.
@@jayt9608 its never stated that sauron could make them is servants, more like allies, generals, but never taking away their will. Smaug and the balrog would still have their own wills and desires unlike the nazgul.
How could sauron corrupt smaug or the balrog? The balrog was the same as sauron, both Maier.
And smaug was something completely different but its never stated that dragons weren't just corrupted Maier as well. Considering Maier and take on whatever form they choose. Just saying I don't think sauron could make them be his servants. I think that they would however willing let sauron be the top dog and reap all the rewards for being saurons top dogs.
Smaugs ego wouldnt allow him to take orders from anyone very long.
Dragons!!
Thanks for the research, amazing how intricately detailed and deep the great Tolkiens creativity ran. No doubt he probably only revealed a portion of it to the world, too cool.
I truly believe Peter Jackson did awesome in Smaug
I truly believe Benedict Cumberbatch was responsible for that.
I felt they could’ve taken the famed boast speech and done it more like in the animated hobbit. That performance truly put a chill in my spine.
Dragons!! Yes, more Dragons please!. Smaug was great. Dragons are awesome. 😃
Great video! But slight correction at 13:30 - the thrush overheard Bilbo talking to the DWARVES about Smaug’s armor, the thrush did NOT hear the conversation directly with Smaug (indeed, the dragon was unaware of the flaw in his armor meaning he could not have discussed it with Bilbo)
Thanks for the content!
Dragons!
I remember seeing this one book that explored what was basically a Tolkien/Middle Earth version of the "What If. . . ?" series. One of the stories was "What if Sauron knew about the dragons of the north, and recruited Smaug into his forces, either before the events of The Hobbit, or before the events of Lord of the Rings?
In it, Sauron basically struck a deal with Smaug where he implied that each major kingdom had its own store of gold, treasure, and other material wealth, especially the elven kingdoms. So, if he were to help him take over Middle Earth by fighting alongside his armies of orcs, he could have all the treasure of all the kingdoms of elves men, and the remaining dwarf kingdoms.
But that's not all. As orcs in Sauron's army often would have armor plating not only worn on them, but even imbedded into the very flesh of their bodies, Sauron had Smaug outfitted with similar protection for battle. Sauron had Smaug outfitted with dragon armor, (which was mostly a large breastplate to cover Smaug's hole from the missing scale on his left breast).
It didn't have a full "alternate ending" story about what would have happened to Middle Earth if Sauron had Smaug on his side. Instead, it just posed this hypothetical of Sauron offering to Smaug the treasure of any kingdom he could help him conquer, and giving him armor to cover his one weakness, then leaving the rest to the imagination of the readers.
Just got this video in my recommendations, just subscribed and gotta say the channel looks FANTASTIC, this is new to me and I’m glad I found this channel, very well made and informative video! ✌️
This times PERFECTLY with my hobbit reread o.o I just stopped at Bilbo stealing the cup last night!!
Maybe Sauron would craft some plates of mitril armor to cover Smaug's weak spot, making him nigh invincible again. Maybe he would even go "Hey Smaug, if you bring down the gates of Minas Tirith you can keep all the treasure we plunder from it". In my eyes Gandalf made the right call there.
Alternate end question: What if Smaug and Sauron went to war with each other and how would this be accomplished?
Perhaps Saruman would play both sides pretending to be loyal to Sauron but secretly "warning" Smaug that Sauron seeks to remove any rivals to him, therefore spurring Smaug into action.
Too bad Saruman of Many Colors was too much of a selfish puss to try to interact with a dragon even through any minions. Unlike Gandalf using minions like great pawn plays. Gandalf the Black Hearted.
Its as valid as an alliance and im not sure what Smaug would see in an alliance, Sauron minions work too hard.
Sauron would not want or need smaug. That's how sauron thinks anyway. As far as sauron is concerned smaug being asleep in the mountain is a good thing.
Besides once sauron reclaimed the one ring even smaug would not be a challenge to him.
Smaug although proud and arrogant would probably be very open to an alliance with sauron though. If sauron is ti be lord of the earth than why not be in his favor? Why not be a king under sauron? There is no downside for smaug aligning with sauron. I'm pretty sure sauron couldn't corrupt or manipulate smaug. Smaug was very intelligent, just as evil as sauron, what I'm saying is I feel very much so if sauron himself went to smaug that smaug would definitely agree to an alliance.
I think that would make a great what if video! What if Smaug had eaten Bilbo and gotten the ring of power stuck over a tooth, affording the dragon unimaginable power that Sauron desires to the point of war with the dragon?
I don't think the ring would actually affect Smaug, or dragons in general, this is just my personal opinion, but Dragons in Tolkiens work don't seem to be easily dominated by others wills.
I mean take Glaurung for example, he was a half grown dragon, he defied Morgoths orders and showed himself to the elves, some 200 years before he was meant too.
This angered Morgoth but it also means that Morgoth couldn't dominate him with his will, like he could with almost everything else except probably Sauron himself.
It seems that dragons are just over powered as hell in this universe, i mean Smaug was killed by sheer luck and even then, the person with the luck needed to be insanely skilled with a bow, which Bard clearly was.
Those drawings/paintings are incredible!
"My armor is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!"
-Smaug, 'The Hobbit'.
Dragons!
I think an alliance between Smaug and Sauron might have been disastrous. If Gandalf happened to meet Thorin just as he was pondering how to prevent such an alliance, this meeting could have been more than coincidence. After all, it is suggested by Gandalf himself at the end of The Hobbit that there might have been some sort of fate/providence or something to that effect involved in Bilbo's adventures, and more allusions to prophesies and suchlike are part of LoTR. If that be the case, then the meeting of Thorin and Gandalf and the subsequent destruction of Smaug might have happened so that Smaug and Sauron would not team up and destroy the forces of good.
If Smaug survived till the alliance was made.. I feel like Sauron would strategically use Sauron via persuasion of "more treasure hoards".. so because of this I don't reckon Bard would be the one to slay Smaug.. I think it'll be Legolas or someone else that's proficient with the bow. (ofcourse.. they need the black arrow)
One can wonder if Smaug consumed one of the dwarven rings of power. Its stated by Gandalf that no living dragon since Smaug was powerful enough to do this and not many other candidates emerge.
Love all these lotr lore channels
If Smaug were to have had teamed up with Sauron then for sure the outcome would have been quite different. First of all, his desire for revenge and protectiveness of his gold would have something greater to rival it. It is his egocentrism that inevitably leads him to take a risk that he did not even realize was a risk. Sauron would have been able to put another voice in his mind so that Smaug would not act purely on emotional drive in that instance (and other potential instances that could arise in the future). Sauron would also most likely be more cunning in realizing their own weaknesses and how they could be exploited, something again which Smaug failed to take into full account.
So in short, yes I do indeed believe that if they were to have teamed up together, they would have sealed the fate of middle-earth. No doubt in my mind. Even the fact that Smaug got killed is still a pure chance and string of coincidences, and nobody would have been able to oppose them in time, nor have the might to repel either one through sheer physical power alone. Smaug would also have the ability to mobilize immediate and devastating assaults at a moment's notice, anywhere within the gaze of Sauron. Nobody would be able to prepare and withstand any assault that the two would undertake together. No army of 10s of thousands of soldiers from any race could ever oppose them, as numbers mean little when faced with the wrath of a Dragon and a grander being as Sauron himself.
It could've been very bad had Sauron persuaded Smaug to join him during the war of the ring. But then it may have turned into one of those situations where after they were successful, Smaug might've turned on Sauron like Ungoliant did to Morgoth after they stole the silmarils and destroyed the two trees.
Dragons!
Thank you for doing this and I enjoy the lore very much.
I always thought it somewhat insane that the Dwarves set out without any real idea of HOW to deal with Smaug at all.
Not much one can do if you think about it 😂
Yes more dragons please, If they teamed up together I think that it would be a lot harder to destroy the ring .
"I kill where I wish and none dare resist. I laid low the warriors of old and their like is not in the world today. Then I was but young and tender. Now I am old and strong, strong strong, Their in the shadows!" -- Smaug to Bilbo.
Smaug is lucky that legolas wasn't around
I think Nerd of the Rings did a video on if Smaug and Sauron had formed an alliance. With Smaug, Sauron took over all of northern Middle Earth very quickly, leaving only Gondor to stand against Sauron. But Gondor by itself was not strong enough to face Sauron, and so Sauron easily conquered Gondor, and now all of Middle Earth was under his domination.
Dragons!! I love dragons and dwarves so much, please more!
I’ve always wondered why the ring didn’t reveal itself to Smaug/Smaug didn’t sense it. With the watcher in the water wasn’t it drawn to the presence of the ring? And as Smaug is such a powerful and evil being wouldn’t the ring benefit from just slipping of of Bilbos hand?
Well, I imagine the ring didn’t want to come into Smaug’s possession. It’s main goal is always to return to Sauron but if a being like Smaug came into possession of the ring not even Sauron would have the might to get it back.
@@pilum3705 Smaug could not use the ring. Sauron was far more powerful than Smaug.
@@pilum3705 I’d figure Smaug just cares about gold and Sauron could just give him everything but I also see your argument
@Pilum gave a good answer inside the Legendarium.
Now, an answer bound to reality: The Hobbit was never intended to be part of The Legendarium. At first it was just a bedtime story for kids. And in it, the ring was a mere magical ring that could turn its wearer invisible.
Since Tolkien never fully rewrote The Hobbit to fit in the lore properly, ee will never have a real answer to this question
@@pilum3705 I'm not so sure on how much agency the Ring has to n wanting to return to Sauron, otherwise I don't think Tolkien would've described a The One bearing Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel or Elessar as credible threats to Sauron, plus Smeagol spent centuries living near Sauron in both Dol Guldur and Mordor without being detected. I think The One Ring is a much more independent thing than people give it credit, probably due to Peter Jackson's insistence that the ring is Sauron's and Sauron's alone.
I've never understood what, exactly, Gandalf's plan for actually defeating Smaug was. It seems a lot like his plan is "You guys go up to his mountain and piss him off until he flies back home."
Presumably Gandalf the Grey knew Bard, i.e the dragon had a weakness and a man could slay him if he exposed himself. Shoots him dead. It seems a mere chance but then he is a wizard
It's the trick with dragons in the tales. They're impossible to kill until they're not
Can you imagine amount of luxury goods Dragons would buy with all the gold they would hoard?
first time on this page.. really enjoyed it. thank you
Thanks for watching 😊
I love Smaug. He's my favorite character of all time
Having only the information in this video to go on, (as i haven't read the book recently enough to remember), it appears as though the thrush that told Bard the bowman about Smaug's weakness, overheard Bilbo's *INTERNAL THOUGHTS*. It's stated that the thrush overheard the conversation, but the weakness wasn't mention in the conversation, only internally.
Yes please talk about MORE DRAGONS! WE LOVE EM!!!! Without Dragons, Fantasy would suck!
DRAGONS DRAGONS DRAGONS!!! It's fascinating how all of the Ancient civilizations knew what dragons are.
"I know the smell and taste of dwarves, no one better! It is the GOLD...they're drawn to treasure like FILES to dead flesh"
I think Smaug and Sauron would have been an undefeatable alliance ... for like 5 minutes. Then they would have quarreled over power and with a little bit of luck the west could have watched them killing each others assets of until one is defeated and the other in ruins. And then Boromir would have easily walked into Mordor and finished of the rest.
Dragons! Dragons! More Dragons! (Really, any of the amazing creatures of Middle Earth!)
I reckon Smaug and Sauron would have made a formidable force, until the Ring came into the picture, the dragon would have been corrupted pretty quickly by it.
Then the story would really begin!
I dont know. Smaug is so arrogant, I cant see him bowing to anyone besides Morgoth.
Dragons!! I love this channel!!
I agree! More dragons please!
dragon cool vid James enjoyed it
Dragons! Really interesting topic 👏
DRAGONS! Love your videos 😎
I wish there was more to his story during the film, I thought he should’ve had more screen time in the third film.
Dragons! Love your content!!
Yes , more Dragons please.
Could Sauron and Smaug have teamed up?
Yes and no. Smaug had his own mind (twisted as that may have been) but he didn't need Sauron - Sauron needed him. Smaug already had a great treasure hoard (probably the biggest known in Middle Earth), what could Sauron tempt him with, there were no more great treasure hoards out there to "con" him with and no doubt that Smaug would have already be aware of this as he was equally as cunning and mistrustful as Sauron. Of course that doesn't mean that Sauron wouldn't have tried, as having a dragon at his disposal would have enhanced his army and caused TERROR among his enemies. However, I think the Balrog would have been a different matter indeed and would have most likely been more ready to join him. The Balrog and Smaug.....now that might have swayed it in favour of Sauron in the end....
Interesting thought.
I think it unlikely the Smaug would wish to ally with Sauron.. the dragons of Tolkiens legendarium are unconcerned about most things going on in middle earth, they tend to only be interested in hoards of treasure. Maybe if Sauron offered Smaug much treasure he might have agreed to an alliance but where would Sauron obtain such treasure? The rings would be of little interest to any dragon even if Sauron would part with them again, and the orcs of Moria did not answer to Sauron so he could not have got anything from there.
I've been waiting on DRAGONS for months now!
DRAGONS!!
Would love to learn more about the other dragons. .
DRAGONS! Always DRAGONS! More please!
"You carry something gold...something PRECIOUS"
What use do dragons get from treasure? They never buy anything...they just like shiny stuff, or derive some kind of energy/power from it?
Mind you...I do love cool dragons!
Yea I think the lore in the books is that gold makes a comfy bed for them, with the added side effect: the metal gets embedded in their soft underbellies.
Dragons man I've always wanted to see a video about dragons.
I love the fact that (excluding Smaug) there is little information to anything happening in the first age or the creatures created by Melkor.
Here a sentence, there a reference but thats mostly it.
We dont even know how many Balrogs existed. It could be thousands or only 7 ... Tolkien was so vague in his explanations ... but in the 21st century, suddenly an army of youtube-Tolkien experts make 20 minute videos on creatures that prior existed only in a sentence or two xD
Great video!
Now I understand why I love dragons so much! I have Welsh blood in my family ancestry!
Depends of which Smaug we are talking about, the young Smaug is clever and wise while the old Smaug is boastful and cocky despite his strength he was put down immediately because he lower his guard.
Also the information of Smaug weakness will greatly a big factor for a victory of alliance despite having Sauron and Smaug combinations.
The great alliance will win against Sauron and old Smaug but Sauron and young Smaug the great alliance have no chance.
The drawings of him are so good
Dragons always make for good videos! :3
Dragons! Yes more dragon videos please. 🙏👍
A great video would be what happened to all that treasure after oakenshield was killed and dragon was killed ?
DRAGONS… keep those videos coming
Dragons I am new to the channel and I love the content
i think that if smaug and sauron would have an alliance that then smaug wouldnt get dead because he would be able to resist all arrows and spears and sauron would probbably give him an armor
Dragons! I would love to see a video on Ancalagon!
I love this channel
An alliance, and perhaps a subtle one, is what happened between Sauron and Smaug to slowly weaken Middle Earth starting with the backbone of the mighty dwarfs: their wealth and pride. Smaug knew that he would be safe and protected inside the mountain and exposing himself in the open field to aid Sauron in battle would have been his weakness, so they strike a deal where the dragon would destroy the dwarf by taking away their precious, Sauron would have one less worry knowing his enemy would start from a weak spot.
Smaug would have been a devastating addition to Sauron's forced for sure. If he doesn't use the dragon for the siege of Gondor, Smaug could still completely wreck the human and elven defenses up north and in Mirkwood. If you go with the idea that Glorfindel was up that way during the war then it's maybe not entirely hopeless, but still.
If Smaug was unleashed on Minas Tirith though, on top of everything else Sauron threw at the city...oh dear.
Yes, please -- more on dragons!
Dragons! Especially on whatever is known about Ancalagon or Scatha, since they don't get as many passages dedicated to them as someone like Glaurung.
Smaug would likely have been kept as a reserve weapon by sauron, to be unleashed only if conventional means failed, fearing treachery from a being whose loyalty is not to him. Thus, Smaug would likely have been unleashed at the battle of the pelenor fields, after the witch king was defeated. Smaug would have incinerated the rohhirim burned the white tree to ash before feasting on the remaining defenders of the white city. Aragorn and the army of the dead would not make a difference to Smaug who could simply fly away. Now if we had eagles in that battle carry undead warriors to Smaug he might be killed, but chances are Smaug would simply retreat to Mordor after crippling the armies of both Rohan and Gondor. Aragorn would likely still have to release the army of the dead after that battle which means that the final attack of sauron would be against the few survivors of the battle, and any additional warriors of Gondor or Rohan that trickle in to reinforce them. Galadriel and thranduril might be able to send reinforcements if they were contacted fast enough, but the dwarves would take too long. So sauron would likely empty Mordor in an epic final assault with Smaug acting as a bomber, softening the defenses and creating chaos before and during the battle. Unless Smaug dies, victory goes to sauron.
Dragons😍👍 another great story😍👍
I always figure Bilbo could have saved a lot of trouble towards the end by donating his 1/14th share of the treasure to Elves and Men. It was in his contract. That was his. Thorin would have had to respect that, and Bilbo could have just given the stone to Thorin as an act of good faith as well, ending rhe feud in time to rally against the 4:41 goblin army. Just me.
I know this is off topic, but I'll be more worried of Sauron forming an alliance with Duruns Bain
Like the beautiful Welsh flag you put into the video and thats got nothing to do with me being Welsh either...well maybe a little bit....Cymru am byth! Good Vid!
Here are a couple of points to consider as to Smaug's size, bearing in mind that we are discussing a fantasy sitting where almost anything can be. Smaug must have been able to fit through the front gate of the mountain. Certainly he could not have been twice the size of a jumbo jet. Why would the Dwarves hew a gate any larger than necessary from unproductive stone? Say perhaps large enough to permit the passage of the largest wagon they thought they would ever need pass the gate. Also, Smaug was felled by a single arrow. Even considering that his skin was relatively soft under the missing scale and that the arrow passed though lung tissue into the heart, no arrow launched by a human would have the momentum to reach the heart of a creature two times the size of a 747. Personally, I think Smaug's chest or thorax could not be much larger than twice the size of the chest of an adult male African elephant or approximately the same size as a blue whale. So, approximately 30m long over all, with a skull 6 meters long, teeth 10-15cm, claws over 1m long, covered in scales that would be nearly impossible for a very strong man to penetrate with a very sharp spear, capable of flying at speeds up to 200kph and spewing fire around 1500c. Fearsome enough if you don't happen to have an A-10 Thunderbolt II handy.
Smaug's size is hinted in the book: He was unable to fit his whole head and jaws through the 5 ft tall secret passageway, and Bard fired the Black Arrow at such proximity and with such power that it vanished into Smaug's belly. But I agree with you that it's very unlikely that he was as massive as the films portrays him.
Dragons! Love me some dragons.
If Sauron or someone under his control could bolster Smaug's defense or abilities I think that would be quite dangerous for Middle Earth. Seems as it is he could be brought down, even if at a cost.
Dragons! I think smaug dying should have been the climax of the second film instead of the third film, but Peter Jackson did an incredible job depicting smaug the great and terrible.
Dragons!!!!!! Definitely dragon content
Dragons! Dragons! And more Dragons! Lol one of my favorite mythical creatures
A weird thing to me has always been how Smaug was a young dragon when he arrived, but then less than 200 years later, he's "old and strong". Dragons live practically forever, yet in less than the lifetime of a dwarf, he became so much stronger? Glaurung could've taken a lesson from him.
I always thought it would be cool to have seen the two evils team up. I wonder if Smaug could have burned the forests around Rivendell and Lothlorien, exposing the elves to disaster? Not sure Sauron could have persuaded him to fly so far from his hoard, of course.
consider it puberty. he got really strong really fast and plateud from there