I can't comment on any of the problems you had that were solely personal taste. But there were a couple of things in this review that came across incorrect, and I'm not sure if you glossed over them for time or actually missed them during your gameplay. If you played them incorrectly they would have a definite effect on your opinion of the action upgrades. First, you said that upgrading the Association action only adds the ability to make Donations in addition to your Association Task, but upgrading Association also allows you to perform *multiple* Association Tasks with a single Association action, which a) makes it quite a bit stronger and b) makes using X-Tokens much more significant with that action. The Build action card is similar. You mentioned that upgrading it just gives you access to the Aviary and Reptile house, but the upgraded Build action also lets you build multiple buildings with a single action, which - like Association - can be very strong when using X-Tokens to give the action a power higher than 5. This is how I get most of my Kiosks into play, which have a huge effect on income. With several of these cards you didn't mention that upgrading them allows you not only to play cards from your hand, but also directly from the board within your Reputation range, which is a massive boon because you are no longer forced to use the Cards action to draw or snap from the board, instead you're just able to play them directly with that action. Lastly, you mentioned that one of your problems is that the actions are "limited by resources", so upgrading them doesn't matter if you don't have the resources to do the upgraded version.... But isn't that true of pretty much every resource-management Eurogame? Managing your resources is, honestly, the whole point of Ark Nova - and any game of a similar ilk - so being short on resources would limit any action in any game where resources are required. My hope is that the upgrade benefits you missed here were just missed in the video. But if you did miss them during gameplay, I can see those omissions having a pretty big effect on your gameplay experience.
Agree- other heavy players have also noted the repetitive slog. You make a good point that there is no game mechanism to help the player build the animal mix they want. This game is not about the animals. Love your perspectives!
There is no repetetive slog anywhere to be found. You go into motion and try to be first to achive victory. If its a slog for these heavy players then it just show how unexperianced they are.
Civilization New Dawn from FFG did the sliding action card thing first. Works well in a Civ-style game. But play with the Terra Incognita expansion, it fixed the combat. Thanks for the video!
Great video, Tim. I haven’t watched much content on this game yet but I keep seeing post after post of people loving it. I was happy to listen to your thoughts on it. I’m really curious to try this and see which camp I fall into.
I think you're severely limiting what happens when you upgrade cards. When you upgrade Animals, you can also play Animal cards from the display instead of just from your hand. When you upgrade Sponsors, same thing, you can play from the display instead of your hand. When you upgrade Cards, you can draw cards from the display instead of just drawing from the deck. When you upgrade Build, you can build on blocked spaces in your zoo. When you upgrade Association, you can do multiple association actions and the donation is a huge thing. 😄
And with the build upgrade, you can build multiple buildings in one go, which is huge. Yeah, upgrading cards feels freaking great and you want to upgrade all of them, but can't, which makes it even more special.
I would love to play this. My 28 year old son and I love Terraforming Mars and it feels like Ark Nova would be a great fit. I always appreciate different opinions. Thank you for sharing yours with us!
A short and nice review. I personally like Ark Nova. I can relate to some of your critisisms. Some would disappear if you play more. The game length is as long as how many turns your fastest player needs to "complete their zoo". This means that if all the players are new to the game, it will feel like it lasts twice as long as it needs to. This is a game for players who like to string together actions in the right order and build "engines" without complete control of what engine parts they have available.
Great video. This is the way to present a take that is not popular. Valid points and genuine, honest feedback that sounds more like constructive criticism rather than just trashing a game cause you didn't like it. Highly appreciate this kind of content. Cheers.
I'm really looking forward to playing this one. I just need to pick up my pre-order from my local game store. I'm cautiously optimistic about the gameplay. Great review. Probably an unpopular opinion, but all of your critiques are well supported.
Great review! Well done! Definitely a game I want to try one day as I am getting more and more into worker placement type games. As for the Action Power Track, Veilwraith by Hall or Nothing Productions is great!
I already own this game, but we haven't played it yet. I appreciate your honest opinion and sharing both the good and the bad from your perspective. I know every game isn't for everybody. Sometimes it takes time for a game to grown on us, and sometimes we can get burnt out on a games we think we love from the start. So all opinions are welcome, and I know they can change over time, but I love the way you explain your reasoning behind your opinions. Good stuff!
I get the sneaking suspicion this is a rule mistake. Money isn't just the 10 from the card, or the 20 from the upgraded version. There's also the money from the coffee cup based on how many animals are in the zoo. That usually floods me with so much cash.
Not sure if you missed this but almost all upgraded cards either let you perform more than 1 action per activation or draw/perform their actions from the card in the middle according to your reputation giving you more options. Builds - You can build multiple buildings at the same time. Cards - Let you draw from the reputation track Animal - Let you play from the reputation track Association - You can perform more than 1 association action Sponsors - You can play sponsors from the reputation track The order in which you upgrade them felt very important to me when I played the game. To be fair, this game is probably a top 10 game material for me ;)
This game to me is like brass. The 1st time you play, you will feel underwhelmed, not enough move/money to do action that you want. But as someone commented, it comes to planning and laying the foundation for the strategy to work. Some of the upgrade card, you only explain half of the effect, for example build, other than what you mention, you can now build in smaller parts instead of full 5. So that will solve your money issue by fractioning your build. You can also now cover the board very quicky by building 2's and 1's reaching the bonus spot. The association action, this is the kingmaker action that most people ignored. You can get animal discounts early game, by having continent partner, and open up early break income by supporting a conservatory. Not to throw shades here but the teach of this game is really important as you need to explain to new players what future possibilities are open to you if you choose to upgrade an action not just what is mention on the card but on the strategy route possibilities. So far all my teach made them asked the game to be tabled again because they want to try another upgrading routes and strategies.
Now I'm excited to see Sam's video! I haven't played Ark Nova but I'd mostly heard good things about it (although I did also hear that it felt long). Right now it's on my "eventually want to try out maybe" list.
I will say well down review but I disagree on most all points. I never find myself struggling to get enough money to pay for things. Just takes planning like terraforming mars. I don’t find it repetitive either because this has lots of strategy routes. Upgrading is actually really good and important. If you’re struggling with money I’d take that as poor planning which can happen in terraforming mars too.
You should check out Sid Meier's Civilization "New Dawn" by FFG. This is the game that introduced the card row action system that can be upgraded that Ark Nova borrows. In that game, you can upgrade each card action to up to four levels that will customize your civilization's capabilities and efficiencies. I wish this system was in more games, and I was glad to see Ark Nova attempt to utilize it a novel way. New Dawn is probably the best "civ" game in a 2 hour time frame compared to normal "civ" games that take 4 hours.
I got to play 1/2 of a game before we had to leave the meetup. I liked it and I liked the puzzle of figuring out the action optimization, and I think I’d like to play it more. After seeing your list of faves (another video) I think our tastes differ, but I think your criticisms are valid. I don’t care about seeing only a few cards, as I figure I’d see them on other plays (as opposed to “fishing” for the “good” cards like in Race for the Galaxy). The game did seem long (over two hours with a rules explanation, and we were nowhere near done) but I could see it going a lot faster after everyone knew the game better. I don’t think I’d pay $90 for the game, but now that it’s been out longer, I’ve seen it for much less, about the same price as the (more expensive) designer games. It’s still one I’m considering getting. Love your videos. Just found them. Interested to hear what you think of other games.
Hm, I think there missing a bit of info on some points. Like on the Upgrades of cards. For example, upgrading the association card does indeed give you the option to donate but ALSO allows you to do multiple actions. And this is, for me, the actual Upgrade because that is what gives you that feeling that you are actually doing something and getting better at it. Same for the value of animals. At the end I generally don't have an issue generating lots of crédits and playing expensive species. I do get what you are saying about "limitations", this is probably something personal, I actually like it because it kinda feels like "reality" where you sometimes would like some things and can't actually build them (kinda like ZooTycoon scenarios that are hard)^^ I do absolutely agree though that the endgame condition could very well be half the lenght. Actually it's the point I like the least about the game, think it feels very weird the way scoring goes. Thanks for your thought anyway !
That's fair Laura! I can see lots of new players being turned away from not figuring out how to generate a faster engine in the beginning, but the upgrades do give more opportunities overall. That's awesome! I loved the tycoon series too and if that mechanic works out for you-even better~ I appreciate all your wonderful thoughts! Thanks for listening to my little rant about AN!
@@TimChuon yeah, would definitely agree though that this is a réal heavy game where the biggest purpose if to figure out HOW to built that engine. And for sure, this will be overwhelming for many new players!
I'm really enjoying Ark Nova but I can certainly appreciate why it won't be a game for everyone. My first game, I really struggled to get anything going because my opening hand was composed of larger animals and cards that required tags or upgrades that I had no way to achieve, so it was a bit of a rough start, but what I learned from that is what to look for, keep, and play in early game. With that being stated, I can certainly see how a rough start to a 3+ hour game would be a deal-breaker for many, but now that I'm multiple plays in, I'm really enjoying the game and engine you can build.
So far I've only played the game solo. And I wonder if that's the best way to play it because it takes a long time. The board is too big, and I do wish the cards were less. I usually only play with half of them. I definitely understand where you're coming from. In my plays I had a few times where my cards didn't synergize well and it's hard to get the deck and river to move. I also kind of wish the deck was separated into animals/sponsors/etc and then take from the card pile you want. That way you can build strategically and not lose because of your starting hand of cards.
You are right, having way too many animal types and too many cards, makes you just play whatever you have since you might never get what you actually want. I wish the expansion actually has a way to reduce/streamline the cards in a good way.
To me, Ark Nova is like a movie that your friends have been telling you is the best movie ever for a month and by the time you see it your expectations are so high that it cannot possibly match up to them. It seems like a pretty fun game but it clearly has issues with how long it takes to get through games and that this only gets worse the more players you add, evidenced by the fact that it is a 4 player game that is not recommended to be played at 4 players on BGG. I don't think it's necessarily a deal breaker to have a lot of cards but I am kinda surprised that there isn't some mechanic to trash your hand or something that would cycle through the cards a bit faster than what is in the game. I don't know how you are supposed to shuffle a deck that big without sleeves. I think I am in the same boat as you that if I had a game on my shelf that felt drawn out and overstayed its welcome, I would know that it's a great game but I would be leaning towards shorter, more contained experiences when playing with other people, which would make me wonder why I got the game in the first place.
That's the most accurate way to put it! I'm wondering if it wasn't talk about as much ....would it have a different impact? I don't think it would for me because the gameplay regardless still would've been the same~ Very true! I do love the vast amount of cards available, but the problems with AN cycling makes it way too slow to enjoy the sheer number of cards included YES exactly! That's so true; I'd lean towards something shorter and that would be more impactful overall~ Thanks for all your thoughts Nayru!
I just tried to play for the 1st time. 4 player count. In 3 hours, we accomplished 4 turns each. This is so complicated! I can't see this getting to my table again soon. Sad for the price I paid and all the hype it received.
I obviously don't know your process (and I know you said you had played it 3 times) but this review really reads to me like someone who has played the game once at most. I'm not accusing you of lying - but if you didn't tell me how many times you had played, I would have assumed you had only played it once. A lot of the issues you mention - not getting enough money, not enough card draw - can be mitigated through play. It can be frustrating to decide to go for reptiles or Australian animals or petting zoo animals, and see none of them come out. But I can pretty much guarantee that even if I don't see the things I "need" there are plenty of ways I can pivot available that I sometimes don't see because I'm so set on that first strategy I decided on. My partner and I have also played 3 times. The first time took us about 90 minutes, second game was 60, and the third was about 50-55. A game that is this deep, this different from game to game, this good with just 2p, but yet still smooth enough to remember all of the rules and play in an hour is a rare thing indeed. We really like it. =) Not every game is for every one - but at least from the way you framed your criticisms it certainly seems like your main concerns could be addressed.
First, a sincere thank you for making this video, Tim. RUclips needs more board game content and more voices at the proverbial table. However, I have to slightly nitpick about a few points you made in your video. I understand not every game is for everyone and it is perfectly fine to pass on a game, but I do feel that you may have glossed-over or perhaps missed a few things. Upgraded action cards do (IMHO) have subtle yet very powerful changes for the player. Two examples being 1) the Build Action, which normally lets you build one building at $2/hex @ 1 hex/level, and upgraded allows you to build any number of buildings at the same cost, which can be very important for adding many smaller enclosures later on, and 2) the Animals action, which normally lets you build from only your hand (1 or 2 cards), and upgraded lets you build (at a slightly better "rate") from your hand OR directly from the market at or below your reputation level, saving you from having to use an action to "snap" a card from the market. I missed some of these differences on the action cards during my first playthrough. You may have not, but those details seemed to be left out (which may be a byproduct of editing). Also, I think using some of the most expensive (and powerful) animal cards in the game (Elephant, Rhino, & Sea Lion) as examples of not being able to build early on is not a great example of the card economy in the game. There are plenty of cards at or below $10 (one being around $4) and a good number of them that add extra income based on synergies for every income phase after you have added that to your zoo. Plus, there are the sponsor cards, all of which cost no money (you just have to have the action at or above the required level of the card) and many of them give one-time bonuses, increase income or give you free buildings. Again, my first playthrough, the four of us were swimming in cash by the last few turns of the game. There were some other points I had, but I just wanted to provide some thoughts. Take care and good luck.
Part of me is a fan of older euro games which were typically much tighter (less liberal giving of resources) and so Ark Nova scratched this itch (esp. the solo game which is a race essentially). If you like the action mechanism this game uses, as far as I'm aware, Civilization: A New Dawn did it before (an underrated hit with my group). But that's more a lite 4x (3x) - play that with the expansion - you'll prob enjoy it as it's more civ building and jostling for objectives.
Civilization used the card river mechanic. Having not yet played the game... I feel like a jump start would get things going. Start with a bunch of cards keep what you want then get money for the rest then everyone takes several limited simultaneous turns before falling into the regular game. This jumps you in and helps you find som synergies at the start of the game. I imagine you might even design asymmetrical starts for people to hand them a path to a very small engine. Enjoyed your review.
I do wonder if the expansion will have "preludes" for those who want a quicker game. Until then, you could create your own. A choice of more money, a starting enclosure, a pre-flipped card, etc.
Whats I see from the review that this is not xour cup of tea. But the examples you brought up is not correct. If it id early game fo not keep the 30+cost animals. Build small, get small animals get conservation project an dupgrade the +5money each turn then you can play better
After all the hype it was difficult to get a copy, but I finally did. Have played it a couple of times solo, so I can't speak to game length. I think two of the big draws to the game are - the mechanism around the 5 action cards (unique & new to many gamers) and the card similarity to Terraforming Mars. I'm not an expert of the game by any means, but agree with many of your points based on my 2 plays. It does seem there are too many cards and when you don't go through the deck very far it makes it extremely difficult to build combos. Course, I have that happen in TM too. Some cards are worthless early or end game. But, I must say, in one of my plays I got a Primate card that went well with building a Primate theme in my zoo. That was great if I got Primate cards. The set number of actions in the solo game limits how much you can do. Too early for me to decide if it's a keeper for me. Like you said, it's in competition with a lot of other games, so there may very well be others that I would prefer to play instead.
Shame, that the game didn't click for you. I am sure that it feels very long if you are having more frustration than fun. This is my new go to heavy euro and I normally stay away from long complex euros. The theme is great and the blend of mechanics is very satisfying to me. I totally disagree with you about upgrading cards; I find this one of the most important aspects of the game. The upgraded action cards lets you be way more flexible and you can use them more often at a lower strength, so you do not have to wait until its back at strength 5. Also most of the upgraded action cards give you access to new options, like the upgraded Cards action card lets you pass the Reputation track beyond 9 and the upgraded Build action lets you build more than one building on your Build action. My first puzzle in the game is nearly always to figure out how to get my first card flip. I love the costant puzzle in this game trying to get some synergies going and the zoo theme really helps for me personally. :)
I love the theme, mechanics, play feel as correcting and saving animals. But, I can’t understand how many people could handle the crazy bunch of cards. When I play with degital version, it’s ok. But, it’s physical tabletop game. This is the only but intorelable problem for me.
That’s fair! The cards are busy, and I didn’t look at the components before buying bc I figured it’d be awesome with all the talk about it… and well… I was very bummed opening the box ofc 🥲
I like your videos, but I also disagree on some of the points you made, including not having enough money to get the things I want or repetitiveness. Also upgrading always feel good to me, I like the extra power in taking the actions. Anyways, thanks for your thoughts and videos!
@@wicaksonoadi1035 It was never a persistent issue at least. I would run out of money at times, but never for too long before a break would happen or there would be other possible actions to take. I've only played four games, so maybe with some more under my belt I would find that to be an issue.
Sorry the game didn't click for you, but you only explained half of the upgrade cards. The upgraded CARDS lets you draw more cards but it also lets you draw from the display based on reputation. The ANIMALS and SPONSORS card you get to play animals and sponsors from the display. The BUILD lets you build multiple buildings in a single action, not just special buildings.
We've been on a board gaming afternoon lately and the table next to us played Ark Nova... It took them all night long and in the meantime we played 5(!) other games at our table. For my taste, it'ts way to big and bloated... I see that it is well made and thought out, but personally I'll stick with other games.
I expected not much from this game but it has somehow made me not want to play Terraforming Mars anymore since I'd almost always prefer to have this one the table.
I'm unclear if you've gotten a few rules wrong or you're just not explaining yourself properly... Upgraded cards are permanent, sure you might not be able to play your elephant right away when you upgrade the card but you'll be able to after you get income at the next break? And there are rewards for going in on primates, reptiles, etc. in both sponsors that reward you for playing them and conservation projects are big points for having them. Will you see them every time? No, but why would you want a game that lets you force the same strategy every time? Ark nova is a race game, except you're not in a sports car, you're at a scrapyard clawing together the pieces you find to get yourself over the line first. Managing your action cards and resources is so much more important than the cards you draw. Also, upgrading the animal action lets you play animals from the display up to your research level, vastly increasing your options. Same with the draw card, and the sponsor card.
Thanks for the review. The game looks a little messy, cluttered & decentralized for my tastes. I usually go for games with better asthentic or stronger artistic theme/presence. That being said, I wouldn't mind playing it to see of it lives up to the massive hype.
100% agree with you there! If I walked into a gaming store, it wouldn't have been one I picked up without any prior knowledge~ give it a shot though! would love to hear what you think when you do!
In your rules explanation you basically describe all the upgrades incorrectly. I'm wondering if your sense of not feeling empowered by upgrades is due to playing the game incorrectly? For example, snapping does not mean taking a card from the deck, it means: "instead of drawing several cards from the deck, you may take exactly 1 card from the display into your hand. This is called Snapping. You may take any card, regardless of the reputation of your zoo. Replenish the display at the end of your turn." This potentially helps with the "replenishing the display more often" issue you had with the game, and it gives you more control over which cards to aim for. Furthermore, the upgrades let's you do "1 or more" of actions, such as building, association tasks or playing sponsor cards. And a sidenote for the sponsor cards, they may be used to gain X amounts of money times two, where X is the strength of the action. In the video you refer to one's position on the Appeal track as the determining factor for this income, which is incorrect. That would be waaay to powerful as you charge up the Appeal track later in the game. It seems that you got a lot of things wrong, and it would be a shame if you based your opinion on rules mistakes. Since this is a few months old, perhaps you have corrected these points in future playthroughs? Regards, C
Excellent review. Spot on The game sucks just a pile of random cards . Don’t buy the hype. It’s over complexed a million icons and no satisfaction to play
The playing time is not the problem itself. I could play sleeping gods for 20 hrs and many strategy games for 3-4 hours+(for 4p). To me, the problem is that being repetitive (like you said!) with endless downtime. That’s the part I cannot ignore and I won’t put it in my top 100 (even in strategy game)
@@mumu5682 yes to all of this! Now that you mention that, I sometimes don’t look at the clock and hrs pass by as I’m playing marvel champions 😂 so time def isn’t the issue but the gameplay dragging on for sure!
Great review. Just played the game earlier today -- was not crazy about the luck of the draw and lack of meaningful ways to cycle through cards. Regarding the action system, I believe Conan used it first, followed by Civilization:a New Dawn. Additionally, the converging multiple victory point tracks are lifted from Rajas of the Granges.
Ouffff… I have a friend that wanted this game to be the next TM… In my game group, I was the only one that hates AN for exactly the same reasons that you pointed out…. Thank you… I thought I was the only one who disliked this game… Like you said… It’s not for me 👍
Your review is interestingly close to most other unfavorable reviews, and almost diametrically opposed to most favorable ones. You want a strategic game of choose your own pathway and use the game mechanisms to go your way, you will dislike it. You want a tactical game where you have to deal with what you have been given, you will love it. You want an engine building game, where you feel more and more powerful and have big whammy turns, you will dislike it. You want a race game, where you are not afraid of dismantling what you are building, where you are not afraid to kill your darlings (and discard that elephant card that you shouldn't be playing this game) just to make sure you pass the goal line first, you will like it. You want to build up as much as possible, the game will take a long time. You want to get there first, no matter what cards you were given, you will finish the game in half the time than the previous group took. I feel like the main factor that will make you like the game is if the person that is teaching you the game understand what the game is for. This is not like most modern games, that ensure the players can have a good experience no matter how they approach it. This is more like old games where the designer wanted you to have a particular experience, and if you approach it in an uninformed way, the game will not do anything to direct you away from hitting a wall. This game is more Agricola and less Caverna. More Tigris and Euphrates and less Lost Ruins of Arnak. Those 4 are great games. But their design sensibilities are very different
Your review is interestingly close to most other unfavorable reviews, and almost diametrically opposed to most favorable ones. You want a strategic game of choose your own pathway and use the game mechanisms to go your way, you will dislike it. You want a tactical game where you have to deal with what you have been given, you will love it. You want an engine building game, where you feel more and more powerful and have big whammy turns, you will dislike it. You want a race game, where you are not afraid of dismantling what you are building, where you are not afraid to kill your darlings (and discard that elephant card that you shouldn't be playing this game) just to make sure you pass the goal line first, you will like it. You want to build up as much as possible, the game will take a long time. You want to get there first, no matter what cards you were given, you will finish the game in half the time than the previous group took.
saddd so the proper way to play this is to see it as a dry euro where you raise for pts regardless of the animals. rather than having the actual best/cool zoo.
I can't comment on any of the problems you had that were solely personal taste. But there were a couple of things in this review that came across incorrect, and I'm not sure if you glossed over them for time or actually missed them during your gameplay. If you played them incorrectly they would have a definite effect on your opinion of the action upgrades.
First, you said that upgrading the Association action only adds the ability to make Donations in addition to your Association Task, but upgrading Association also allows you to perform *multiple* Association Tasks with a single Association action, which a) makes it quite a bit stronger and b) makes using X-Tokens much more significant with that action.
The Build action card is similar. You mentioned that upgrading it just gives you access to the Aviary and Reptile house, but the upgraded Build action also lets you build multiple buildings with a single action, which - like Association - can be very strong when using X-Tokens to give the action a power higher than 5. This is how I get most of my Kiosks into play, which have a huge effect on income.
With several of these cards you didn't mention that upgrading them allows you not only to play cards from your hand, but also directly from the board within your Reputation range, which is a massive boon because you are no longer forced to use the Cards action to draw or snap from the board, instead you're just able to play them directly with that action.
Lastly, you mentioned that one of your problems is that the actions are "limited by resources", so upgrading them doesn't matter if you don't have the resources to do the upgraded version.... But isn't that true of pretty much every resource-management Eurogame? Managing your resources is, honestly, the whole point of Ark Nova - and any game of a similar ilk - so being short on resources would limit any action in any game where resources are required.
My hope is that the upgrade benefits you missed here were just missed in the video. But if you did miss them during gameplay, I can see those omissions having a pretty big effect on your gameplay experience.
Great video as always. I'm glad to hear your perspective and that it differs from the fervor most others have.
Agree- other heavy players have also noted the repetitive slog. You make a good point that there is no game mechanism to help the player build the animal mix they want. This game is not about the animals. Love your perspectives!
There is no repetetive slog anywhere to be found. You go into motion and try to be first to achive victory. If its a slog for these heavy players then it just show how unexperianced they are.
Civilization New Dawn from FFG did the sliding action card thing first. Works well in a Civ-style game. But play with the Terra Incognita expansion, it fixed the combat.
Thanks for the video!
Scoring track crossing was done before in “Rajas of the Ganges”.
Great video, Tim. I haven’t watched much content on this game yet but I keep seeing post after post of people loving it. I was happy to listen to your thoughts on it. I’m really curious to try this and see which camp I fall into.
I think you're severely limiting what happens when you upgrade cards. When you upgrade Animals, you can also play Animal cards from the display instead of just from your hand. When you upgrade Sponsors, same thing, you can play from the display instead of your hand. When you upgrade Cards, you can draw cards from the display instead of just drawing from the deck. When you upgrade Build, you can build on blocked spaces in your zoo. When you upgrade Association, you can do multiple association actions and the donation is a huge thing. 😄
And with the build upgrade, you can build multiple buildings in one go, which is huge. Yeah, upgrading cards feels freaking great and you want to upgrade all of them, but can't, which makes it even more special.
I would love to play this. My 28 year old son and I love Terraforming Mars and it feels like Ark Nova would be a great fit. I always appreciate different opinions. Thank you for sharing yours with us!
A short and nice review. I personally like Ark Nova. I can relate to some of your critisisms. Some would disappear if you play more. The game length is as long as how many turns your fastest player needs to "complete their zoo". This means that if all the players are new to the game, it will feel like it lasts twice as long as it needs to. This is a game for players who like to string together actions in the right order and build "engines" without complete control of what engine parts they have available.
Great video. This is the way to present a take that is not popular. Valid points and genuine, honest feedback that sounds more like constructive criticism rather than just trashing a game cause you didn't like it. Highly appreciate this kind of content. Cheers.
I'm really looking forward to playing this one. I just need to pick up my pre-order from my local game store. I'm cautiously optimistic about the gameplay. Great review. Probably an unpopular opinion, but all of your critiques are well supported.
Great review! Well done! Definitely a game I want to try one day as I am getting more and more into worker placement type games. As for the Action Power Track, Veilwraith by Hall or Nothing Productions is great!
I already own this game, but we haven't played it yet. I appreciate your honest opinion and sharing both the good and the bad from your perspective. I know every game isn't for everybody. Sometimes it takes time for a game to grown on us, and sometimes we can get burnt out on a games we think we love from the start. So all opinions are welcome, and I know they can change over time, but I love the way you explain your reasoning behind your opinions. Good stuff!
I get the sneaking suspicion this is a rule mistake. Money isn't just the 10 from the card, or the 20 from the upgraded version. There's also the money from the coffee cup based on how many animals are in the zoo. That usually floods me with so much cash.
Yes, he made the comment that advancing the break track puts you closer to game end, which is completely false.
Not sure if you missed this but almost all upgraded cards either let you perform more than 1 action per activation or draw/perform their actions from the card in the middle according to your reputation giving you more options.
Builds - You can build multiple buildings at the same time.
Cards - Let you draw from the reputation track
Animal - Let you play from the reputation track
Association - You can perform more than 1 association action
Sponsors - You can play sponsors from the reputation track
The order in which you upgrade them felt very important to me when I played the game.
To be fair, this game is probably a top 10 game material for me ;)
I really enjoy this one, I class it as a business simulation and economic game.
This game to me is like brass. The 1st time you play, you will feel underwhelmed, not enough move/money to do action that you want. But as someone commented, it comes to planning and laying the foundation for the strategy to work.
Some of the upgrade card, you only explain half of the effect, for example build, other than what you mention, you can now build in smaller parts instead of full 5. So that will solve your money issue by fractioning your build. You can also now cover the board very quicky by building 2's and 1's reaching the bonus spot.
The association action, this is the kingmaker action that most people ignored. You can get animal discounts early game, by having continent partner, and open up early break income by supporting a conservatory.
Not to throw shades here but the teach of this game is really important as you need to explain to new players what future possibilities are open to you if you choose to upgrade an action not just what is mention on the card but on the strategy route possibilities. So far all my teach made them asked the game to be tabled again because they want to try another upgrading routes and strategies.
Now I'm excited to see Sam's video! I haven't played Ark Nova but I'd mostly heard good things about it (although I did also hear that it felt long). Right now it's on my "eventually want to try out maybe" list.
RIGHT?! i'm dying to see what Sam says! the way you put it is how I should've went about trying AN-maybe i went into it a little too hastily! hahah!
I will say well down review but I disagree on most all points. I never find myself struggling to get enough money to pay for things. Just takes planning like terraforming mars. I don’t find it repetitive either because this has lots of strategy routes. Upgrading is actually really good and important. If you’re struggling with money I’d take that as poor planning which can happen in terraforming mars too.
You should check out Sid Meier's Civilization "New Dawn" by FFG. This is the game that introduced the card row action system that can be upgraded that Ark Nova borrows. In that game, you can upgrade each card action to up to four levels that will customize your civilization's capabilities and efficiencies. I wish this system was in more games, and I was glad to see Ark Nova attempt to utilize it a novel way. New Dawn is probably the best "civ" game in a 2 hour time frame compared to normal "civ" games that take 4 hours.
Just played this, it took 3.5 hours (including 1 hour to learn) and just felt like a slog. Would not play again!
Totally agree with "here are your cards... play them".
I got to play 1/2 of a game before we had to leave the meetup.
I liked it and I liked the puzzle of figuring out the action optimization, and I think I’d like to play it more.
After seeing your list of faves (another video) I think our tastes differ, but I think your criticisms are valid.
I don’t care about seeing only a few cards, as I figure I’d see them on other plays (as opposed to “fishing” for the “good” cards like in Race for the Galaxy).
The game did seem long (over two hours with a rules explanation, and we were nowhere near done) but I could see it going a lot faster after everyone knew the game better.
I don’t think I’d pay $90 for the game, but now that it’s been out longer, I’ve seen it for much less, about the same price as the (more expensive) designer games. It’s still one I’m considering getting.
Love your videos. Just found them. Interested to hear what you think of other games.
Hm, I think there missing a bit of info on some points. Like on the Upgrades of cards. For example, upgrading the association card does indeed give you the option to donate but ALSO allows you to do multiple actions. And this is, for me, the actual Upgrade because that is what gives you that feeling that you are actually doing something and getting better at it. Same for the value of animals. At the end I generally don't have an issue generating lots of crédits and playing expensive species.
I do get what you are saying about "limitations", this is probably something personal, I actually like it because it kinda feels like "reality" where you sometimes would like some things and can't actually build them (kinda like ZooTycoon scenarios that are hard)^^
I do absolutely agree though that the endgame condition could very well be half the lenght. Actually it's the point I like the least about the game, think it feels very weird the way scoring goes.
Thanks for your thought anyway !
That's fair Laura! I can see lots of new players being turned away from not figuring out how to generate a faster engine in the beginning, but the upgrades do give more opportunities overall.
That's awesome! I loved the tycoon series too and if that mechanic works out for you-even better~
I appreciate all your wonderful thoughts! Thanks for listening to my little rant about AN!
@@TimChuon yeah, would definitely agree though that this is a réal heavy game where the biggest purpose if to figure out HOW to built that engine. And for sure, this will be overwhelming for many new players!
I'm really enjoying Ark Nova but I can certainly appreciate why it won't be a game for everyone. My first game, I really struggled to get anything going because my opening hand was composed of larger animals and cards that required tags or upgrades that I had no way to achieve, so it was a bit of a rough start, but what I learned from that is what to look for, keep, and play in early game. With that being stated, I can certainly see how a rough start to a 3+ hour game would be a deal-breaker for many, but now that I'm multiple plays in, I'm really enjoying the game and engine you can build.
So far I've only played the game solo. And I wonder if that's the best way to play it because it takes a long time. The board is too big, and I do wish the cards were less. I usually only play with half of them. I definitely understand where you're coming from. In my plays I had a few times where my cards didn't synergize well and it's hard to get the deck and river to move. I also kind of wish the deck was separated into animals/sponsors/etc and then take from the card pile you want. That way you can build strategically and not lose because of your starting hand of cards.
Very nice review!!
6:29 Check out Sid Meier’s Civilization: A New Dawn. That’s where that card sliding mechanism came from!
You are right, having way too many animal types and too many cards, makes you just play whatever you have since you might never get what you actually want.
I wish the expansion actually has a way to reduce/streamline the cards in a good way.
To me, Ark Nova is like a movie that your friends have been telling you is the best movie ever for a month and by the time you see it your expectations are so high that it cannot possibly match up to them. It seems like a pretty fun game but it clearly has issues with how long it takes to get through games and that this only gets worse the more players you add, evidenced by the fact that it is a 4 player game that is not recommended to be played at 4 players on BGG.
I don't think it's necessarily a deal breaker to have a lot of cards but I am kinda surprised that there isn't some mechanic to trash your hand or something that would cycle through the cards a bit faster than what is in the game. I don't know how you are supposed to shuffle a deck that big without sleeves.
I think I am in the same boat as you that if I had a game on my shelf that felt drawn out and overstayed its welcome, I would know that it's a great game but I would be leaning towards shorter, more contained experiences when playing with other people, which would make me wonder why I got the game in the first place.
That's the most accurate way to put it! I'm wondering if it wasn't talk about as much ....would it have a different impact? I don't think it would for me because the gameplay regardless still would've been the same~
Very true! I do love the vast amount of cards available, but the problems with AN cycling makes it way too slow to enjoy the sheer number of cards included
YES exactly! That's so true; I'd lean towards something shorter and that would be more impactful overall~ Thanks for all your thoughts Nayru!
What game is that in intro at 0.06 sec? Stagecoach, Stellar portal cards and so on?
I just tried to play for the 1st time. 4 player count. In 3 hours, we accomplished 4 turns each. This is so complicated! I can't see this getting to my table again soon. Sad for the price I paid and all the hype it received.
I obviously don't know your process (and I know you said you had played it 3 times) but this review really reads to me like someone who has played the game once at most. I'm not accusing you of lying - but if you didn't tell me how many times you had played, I would have assumed you had only played it once. A lot of the issues you mention - not getting enough money, not enough card draw - can be mitigated through play.
It can be frustrating to decide to go for reptiles or Australian animals or petting zoo animals, and see none of them come out. But I can pretty much guarantee that even if I don't see the things I "need" there are plenty of ways I can pivot available that I sometimes don't see because I'm so set on that first strategy I decided on.
My partner and I have also played 3 times. The first time took us about 90 minutes, second game was 60, and the third was about 50-55. A game that is this deep, this different from game to game, this good with just 2p, but yet still smooth enough to remember all of the rules and play in an hour is a rare thing indeed. We really like it. =)
Not every game is for every one - but at least from the way you framed your criticisms it certainly seems like your main concerns could be addressed.
First, a sincere thank you for making this video, Tim. RUclips needs more board game content and more voices at the proverbial table. However, I have to slightly nitpick about a few points you made in your video. I understand not every game is for everyone and it is perfectly fine to pass on a game, but I do feel that you may have glossed-over or perhaps missed a few things.
Upgraded action cards do (IMHO) have subtle yet very powerful changes for the player. Two examples being 1) the Build Action, which normally lets you build one building at $2/hex @ 1 hex/level, and upgraded allows you to build any number of buildings at the same cost, which can be very important for adding many smaller enclosures later on, and 2) the Animals action, which normally lets you build from only your hand (1 or 2 cards), and upgraded lets you build (at a slightly better "rate") from your hand OR directly from the market at or below your reputation level, saving you from having to use an action to "snap" a card from the market. I missed some of these differences on the action cards during my first playthrough. You may have not, but those details seemed to be left out (which may be a byproduct of editing).
Also, I think using some of the most expensive (and powerful) animal cards in the game (Elephant, Rhino, & Sea Lion) as examples of not being able to build early on is not a great example of the card economy in the game. There are plenty of cards at or below $10 (one being around $4) and a good number of them that add extra income based on synergies for every income phase after you have added that to your zoo. Plus, there are the sponsor cards, all of which cost no money (you just have to have the action at or above the required level of the card) and many of them give one-time bonuses, increase income or give you free buildings. Again, my first playthrough, the four of us were swimming in cash by the last few turns of the game.
There were some other points I had, but I just wanted to provide some thoughts. Take care and good luck.
Part of me is a fan of older euro games which were typically much tighter (less liberal giving of resources) and so Ark Nova scratched this itch (esp. the solo game which is a race essentially). If you like the action mechanism this game uses, as far as I'm aware, Civilization: A New Dawn did it before (an underrated hit with my group). But that's more a lite 4x (3x) - play that with the expansion - you'll prob enjoy it as it's more civ building and jostling for objectives.
Civilization used the card river mechanic.
Having not yet played the game... I feel like a jump start would get things going. Start with a bunch of cards keep what you want then get money for the rest then everyone takes several limited simultaneous turns before falling into the regular game. This jumps you in and helps you find som synergies at the start of the game.
I imagine you might even design asymmetrical starts for people to hand them a path to a very small engine.
Enjoyed your review.
I do wonder if the expansion will have "preludes" for those who want a quicker game. Until then, you could create your own. A choice of more money, a starting enclosure, a pre-flipped card, etc.
Whats I see from the review that this is not xour cup of tea. But the examples you brought up is not correct. If it id early game fo not keep the 30+cost animals. Build small, get small animals get conservation project an dupgrade the +5money each turn then you can play better
After all the hype it was difficult to get a copy, but I finally did. Have played it a couple of times solo, so I can't speak to game length. I think two of the big draws to the game are - the mechanism around the 5 action cards (unique & new to many gamers) and the card similarity to Terraforming Mars.
I'm not an expert of the game by any means, but agree with many of your points based on my 2 plays.
It does seem there are too many cards and when you don't go through the deck very far it makes it extremely difficult to build combos. Course, I have that happen in TM too. Some cards are worthless early or end game. But, I must say, in one of my plays I got a Primate card that went well with building a Primate theme in my zoo. That was great if I got Primate cards.
The set number of actions in the solo game limits how much you can do.
Too early for me to decide if it's a keeper for me. Like you said, it's in competition with a lot of other games, so there may very well be others that I would prefer to play instead.
Shame, that the game didn't click for you. I am sure that it feels very long if you are having more frustration than fun. This is my new go to heavy euro and I normally stay away from long complex euros. The theme is great and the blend of mechanics is very satisfying to me. I totally disagree with you about upgrading cards; I find this one of the most important aspects of the game. The upgraded action cards lets you be way more flexible and you can use them more often at a lower strength, so you do not have to wait until its back at strength 5. Also most of the upgraded action cards give you access to new options, like the upgraded Cards action card lets you pass the Reputation track beyond 9 and the upgraded Build action lets you build more than one building on your Build action. My first puzzle in the game is nearly always to figure out how to get my first card flip. I love the costant puzzle in this game trying to get some synergies going and the zoo theme really helps for me personally. :)
I love the theme, mechanics, play feel as correcting and saving animals. But, I can’t understand how many people could handle the crazy bunch of cards. When I play with degital version, it’s ok. But, it’s physical tabletop game. This is the only but intorelable problem for me.
Thanks for the review! I passed on the game because the components looked a bit bland and too busy (too much to read on the cards)
That’s fair! The cards are busy, and I didn’t look at the components before buying bc I figured it’d be awesome with all the talk about it… and well… I was very bummed opening the box ofc 🥲
I like your videos, but I also disagree on some of the points you made, including not having enough money to get the things I want or repetitiveness. Also upgrading always feel good to me, I like the extra power in taking the actions. Anyways, thanks for your thoughts and videos!
So, you rarely had problem of not having enough money in the game?
@@wicaksonoadi1035 It was never a persistent issue at least. I would run out of money at times, but never for too long before a break would happen or there would be other possible actions to take. I've only played four games, so maybe with some more under my belt I would find that to be an issue.
Sorry the game didn't click for you, but you only explained half of the upgrade cards. The upgraded CARDS lets you draw more cards but it also lets you draw from the display based on reputation. The ANIMALS and SPONSORS card you get to play animals and sponsors from the display. The BUILD lets you build multiple buildings in a single action, not just special buildings.
i'll stick with all bear zoo: BARENPARK!!!!
We've been on a board gaming afternoon lately and the table next to us played Ark Nova...
It took them all night long and in the meantime we played 5(!) other games at our table.
For my taste, it'ts way to big and bloated... I see that it is well made and thought out, but personally I'll stick with other games.
I expected not much from this game but it has somehow made me not want to play Terraforming Mars anymore since I'd almost always prefer to have this one the table.
100% agree with all of this video. You have yourself a subscriber.
I'm unclear if you've gotten a few rules wrong or you're just not explaining yourself properly... Upgraded cards are permanent, sure you might not be able to play your elephant right away when you upgrade the card but you'll be able to after you get income at the next break? And there are rewards for going in on primates, reptiles, etc. in both sponsors that reward you for playing them and conservation projects are big points for having them. Will you see them every time? No, but why would you want a game that lets you force the same strategy every time? Ark nova is a race game, except you're not in a sports car, you're at a scrapyard clawing together the pieces you find to get yourself over the line first. Managing your action cards and resources is so much more important than the cards you draw. Also, upgrading the animal action lets you play animals from the display up to your research level, vastly increasing your options. Same with the draw card, and the sponsor card.
This is right on so many levels! 👏. All it needs now is a decent Exploit 👌. And maybe a hack or 2. 🙃 good video as always.
hahah! thanks friend~glad you enjoyed the review!
Thanks for the review. The game looks a little messy, cluttered & decentralized for my tastes. I usually go for games with better asthentic or stronger artistic theme/presence.
That being said, I wouldn't mind playing it to see of it lives up to the massive hype.
100% agree with you there! If I walked into a gaming store, it wouldn't have been one I picked up without any prior knowledge~
give it a shot though! would love to hear what you think when you do!
It is. I hate terraforming mars and this is one of my favorite game now. It is absurdly good and strategic
In your rules explanation you basically describe all the upgrades incorrectly. I'm wondering if your sense of not feeling empowered by upgrades is due to playing the game incorrectly? For example, snapping does not mean taking a card from the deck, it means: "instead of drawing several cards from the deck, you may take exactly 1 card from the display into your hand. This is called Snapping. You may take any card, regardless of the reputation of your zoo. Replenish the display at the end of your turn." This potentially helps with the "replenishing the display more often" issue you had with the game, and it gives you more control over which cards to aim for.
Furthermore, the upgrades let's you do "1 or more" of actions, such as building, association tasks or playing sponsor cards. And a sidenote for the sponsor cards, they may be used to gain X amounts of money times two, where X is the strength of the action. In the video you refer to one's position on the Appeal track as the determining factor for this income, which is incorrect. That would be waaay to powerful as you charge up the Appeal track later in the game. It seems that you got a lot of things wrong, and it would be a shame if you based your opinion on rules mistakes. Since this is a few months old, perhaps you have corrected these points in future playthroughs?
Regards,
C
Excellent review. Spot on The game sucks just a pile of random cards . Don’t buy the hype. It’s over complexed a million icons and no satisfaction to play
Same for me… lol
Especially for the extremely long downtime during first play
It however ranked 24 now and I’m like … 🙃
RIGHT?! The time length it took to finish was a little unreal 🥲 and that’s just at 2 players (for me)! Hahah glad we’re on the same page 📄!
It’s definitely not a game for 4 players, I would say. I had an abysmal experience for that. 1-3p would be much more better.
The playing time is not the problem itself. I could play sleeping gods for 20 hrs and many strategy games for 3-4 hours+(for 4p). To me, the problem is that being repetitive (like you said!) with endless downtime. That’s the part I cannot ignore and I won’t put it in my top 100 (even in strategy game)
@@mumu5682 yes to all of this! Now that you mention that, I sometimes don’t look at the clock and hrs pass by as I’m playing marvel champions 😂 so time def isn’t the issue but the gameplay dragging on for sure!
Are you nuts?!?!?! Unsubscribed! Just kidding, to each their own. Keep rocking!
HAHAHA! I was like wait hold on! 🤣 hope you have a fun time with AN though Craig!
This game isnt for me..and I dont understand the hype about it..really...
Great review. Just played the game earlier today -- was not crazy about the luck of the draw and lack of meaningful ways to cycle through cards.
Regarding the action system, I believe Conan used it first, followed by Civilization:a New Dawn. Additionally, the converging multiple victory point tracks are lifted from Rajas of the Granges.
Ouffff… I have a friend that wanted this game to be the next TM… In my game group, I was the only one that hates AN for exactly the same reasons that you pointed out…. Thank you… I thought I was the only one who disliked this game… Like you said… It’s not for me 👍
Your review is interestingly close to most other unfavorable reviews, and almost diametrically opposed to most favorable ones.
You want a strategic game of choose your own pathway and use the game mechanisms to go your way, you will dislike it. You want a tactical game where you have to deal with what you have been given, you will love it.
You want an engine building game, where you feel more and more powerful and have big whammy turns, you will dislike it. You want a race game, where you are not afraid of dismantling what you are building, where you are not afraid to kill your darlings (and discard that elephant card that you shouldn't be playing this game) just to make sure you pass the goal line first, you will like it.
You want to build up as much as possible, the game will take a long time. You want to get there first, no matter what cards you were given, you will finish the game in half the time than the previous group took.
I feel like the main factor that will make you like the game is if the person that is teaching you the game understand what the game is for. This is not like most modern games, that ensure the players can have a good experience no matter how they approach it. This is more like old games where the designer wanted you to have a particular experience, and if you approach it in an uninformed way, the game will not do anything to direct you away from hitting a wall.
This game is more Agricola and less Caverna. More Tigris and Euphrates and less Lost Ruins of Arnak. Those 4 are great games. But their design sensibilities are very different
Your review is interestingly close to most other unfavorable reviews, and almost diametrically opposed to most favorable ones.
You want a strategic game of choose your own pathway and use the game mechanisms to go your way, you will dislike it. You want a tactical game where you have to deal with what you have been given, you will love it.
You want an engine building game, where you feel more and more powerful and have big whammy turns, you will dislike it. You want a race game, where you are not afraid of dismantling what you are building, where you are not afraid to kill your darlings (and discard that elephant card that you shouldn't be playing this game) just to make sure you pass the goal line first, you will like it.
You want to build up as much as possible, the game will take a long time. You want to get there first, no matter what cards you were given, you will finish the game in half the time than the previous group took.
This sounds like SCYTHE.
saddd so the proper way to play this is to see it as a dry euro where you raise for pts regardless of the animals.
rather than having the actual best/cool zoo.