BONUS: Ohio Toxic Train Disaster feat. David Sirota | Chapo Trap House
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
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Art/Animation by Emily Halaka @emilyhalaka
Will talks to David Sirota of The Lever about the disastrous train derailment and toxic event in East Palestine, Ohio. They discuss national train policy, corporate responsibility, erosion of railway labor and safety protections, and of course, Pete Buttigieg’s Transportation department.
Follow David's work at The Lever: www.levernews....
#chapotraphouse #chapo
Rural Chapo listener/ Columbiana County resident here. Can confirm Norfolk Southern is doing nothing and intends to do nothing for the people here. East Palestine held a town hall for residents to air concerns and Norfolk Southern reps refused to show out
Fucking unreal. Hang in there man.
theyr'e terrified of what ya'll could do to them
Nationalize the rails
Nationalize it ALL
@@Secarstra777 also energy, healthcare, education, and military weapons manufacturing 👍
One world order pls
Nationalize Evangelical Children
Three years ago it was Union Pacific.
The train was hauling 115 tanker-cars carrying crude oil. The braking system was the same as this Norfolk Southern train and the precipitating cause was brake failure at the rear of the train.The head loco was traveling at just 7 miles per hour at the time of the derailment, which is an unusually low speed for a derailment to occur. Unfortunately due to brake failure the rear of the train was travelling faster than the head and the sixty cars at the rear piled into the fifty five cars at the front.
Ten cars at the centre of the train derailed near the town centre of Custer, Washington (another small town, like East Palestine, Ohio). Fire from the three cars (containing 29,000 gallons of oil) out of the ten which derailed took hold about 200 yards from the towns main street.
Excellent podcast! This is what happens when the government stops protesting workers.
Or protecting 😉❤
Dec 4 2017 the republicans removed the ECP Braking regulation from the rail industry, this policy require emergency brakes on every car to prevent Multiple cars from derailing. It was designed for cars containing flammable and toxic materials. HE WONT MENTION THAT BECAUSE IT would hold people accountable.
Should have done a special animated background for this ep where the model train derails and leaks vinyl chloride while Pete sits on the couch doing nothing.
With ai image generation you can do exactly that.
It's hard for me to hear about this disaster. I lived near the explosion site of the West, Texas fertilizer company explosion in 2013. The toxic fumes made me start bleeding from my ears, and I began coughing up solid white chunks up out of my lungs for weeks afterwards
There is NO excuse for this train not being classified as highly hazardous. Vinyl chloride is not only highly, HIGHLY flammable, but it's a significant reproductive health risk.
I work for a company that manufactures agricultural products, and there is no way that at any point in the transfer of this material onto the train the hazard was unknown to anyone. For a material to even leave the plant, hazard placards must be posted on EVERY container, whether it's a tote, truck, or railcar. Workers cannot only be fired, but sued into the poorhouse for failure to sign materials, and the idea that they forgot to do this with thousands of gallons of vinyl chloride is absurd. This means that at the point where this train was being ok'd for transit someone consciously looked at SEVERAL posted brightly colored signs indicating a chlorinated solvent was on board, and lied about it.
My knowledge about how chemical transit works stops once it leaves the lab, but I can say that the DCM we use for HPLC is in the same class as vinyl chloride, and we take an absurd amount of safety precautions when handling a 1 litre bottle of the stuff.
Also, if anyone is wondering why they're burning this stuff off, materials like these have high penetrating power (which is why chlorinated solvents are used in stuff like PB blaster to remove rusty bolts), so the "cheap" way to clean it up is to release a bunch of phosgene and HCl gas into the fucking air instead of spending millions if not billions to excavate cubic miles of soil, all of which must be classified as a HAZARDOUS MATERIAL, shipped as a HAZARDOUS MATERIAL, and disposed of as a HAZARDOUS MATERIAL
The scope of this can't be understated, that entire area is a location from a fallout game now.
edit: I just realized Sirota was explaining that vinyl chloride isn't actually required to be noted as hazardous for rail transit, so the fact this was all above board is even more grim and insane than someone lying about the contents.
Dude, shut up. The entire area is not fallout.
@@DK-tu3rv wow you're right I was being hyperbolic about a bunch of organic solvent being dumped into the ground water what's even the point of this dumbass comment
To get you to stop mouthing off on something you know complete dick about to impress a bunch of teenagers looking for a reason to hyperventilate.
If your knowledge of this ends at the lab keep it in the fucking lab and stop spreading hyperbolic alarmist bullshit because you saw a bunch of dipshits on twitter do it and it activated your fear response. Never been more embarassed by the American left than I have been watching this news cycle.
"Boil notice" really worries me. I am an engineer with previous experience in the water industry and boil notices apply to bacterial or viral concerns. You can't boil away a toxic chemical. I'm no chemical engineer but to me it sounds like they just gave a standard "dangerous water" knee jerk response that will fool people into thinking their boiled water is drinkable.
Drink the concentrated chemicals; what could go wrong?
A comment above quotes an actual chemical engineer who goes into detail about how VC breaks down and how boiling DOES break down the chemical. As I said, I know nothing about chemical engineering and I would defer to a chemical engineer to tell us how to deal with this and what to be concerned about.
boiled water is really hot
Exposure to heat denatures tons of chemicals, that's what all those bunsen burners are for
@@sammythemc so the fumes are a bonus then?
What's the use of a regulatory agency that won't regulate?
To collect bribes from the particular industries it collects bribes from.
To commit regulatory capture is my destinyyyyy!
Gotta catch em all, Gotta catch em all!
Revolving door make work program
don't look into the usa today / the trace article about the ATF if you don't like good ol boys letting good ol boys get away with being awful
Kind of an absurd thing to say "especially when that monopoly is not regulated". You're putting the cart before the horse. They are not regulated in large part BECAUSE they are a monopoly, especially a private monopoly. This it the story of capitalism. When make things such that success in the market compounds on itself with private accumulation, this is what you get. You get concentrations of power that grow beyond any ability to effectively be regulated because they just threaten a capital strike. Your whole country is a chicken coop run by wolves. We need to start pecking back.
I think these guys are all smart/cynical enough to understand the very basic concept that mega-corporations can essentially pass/block whatever legislation they want
Proper railway safety for all who want it!
This was a fantastic episode. Time to bring the hammer & sickle down and start regulating industry that skirts public health and safety protocol, or they'll poison entire communities without so much as a slap on the wrist.
HECK OF A JOB BOOTY !
Glad to see Pete's expanded his dog pogram to include other household pets
Got to have high high hazards for a living!
Also, 11:20 - In most of Europe, generally far more modern brakes and braking systems are used, although it varies by country. The shit in the USA is so out of date and run down in comparison that it absolutely contributed to this incident. For English trains, you can compare by looking up National Rail Brake Standards and going from there, or look up a podcast on here called "Rail Natter" by a professional UK rail worker for some more insight. The state of US rail is fucked. For a US podcast, Well There's Your Problem covered the US rail strike very well.
We live in cyberpunk without the cool cybernetic upgrades
Dude! I’ve been saying this since 2020. Like we do get all the dystopian shit but no metal arms, no ice t hanging with dolphin hacker, nothing cool
If I cant get healthcare I at least want a brainchip that makes me a samurai sword master. Is that too much to ask?
I like to get high and pretend I'm in a video game too
So you're telling me the only conspiracy is capitalism?
"Always was."
*pew pew*
Industrialism will do anything to ensure its survival.
Its so annoying you have to come to a podcast for real reporting. I read the BBC article and it's so lacking in detail you could come away thinking that bad optics are the issue, not the corruption.
probably because of ongoing rail strikes in the uk. the rail network unions are making the same arguements regards safety of the network, that their american counter-parts were making.
and since the BBC is esstentially a wing of the tory party, they're unable to provide anything useful to mick lynch.
Yeah it is annoying but when mainstream media does little else besides confuse and bring conflict to keep the people from all being on the same page. Can't trust them anyway.
CGTN covered it from every angle in an article that took me two minutes to read. It has to be a coverup, but idk how effective if an American train derails every week
Nah, I'm sure the free market will sort it out, no need to worry
first they came for the poor in Flint Michigan, I didnt speak up because I was poor in Georgia.. etc
I'm pretty sure sirota strongly recommended empowering this government.
Capital punishment, for executives and shareholders, is the only logical solution. Every industry needs some thorough "house cleaning", to deter the rampant corruption and greed.
Haha china goes brrrr
did anyone else take a couple of days to realise this wasnt a viral marketing campaign for that white noise movie?
I'll say this
Norfolk Southern locomotives are the nastiest train engines I've ever been on
If they aren't even going to clean their toilets, replace or update the ripped and torn seating, or for the love of God wipe down to counter space of course they aren't going to have decent safety compliance
I blame Milton freedman
White Noise literally just came out, Goddamn
Matt said "Airborn Toxic Event" on an episode a week or two before the derailment took place
Pete Butigeig was probably out in Afghanistan overseeing the same opioid production that would later be sent to Ohio.
Once you breakdown this disaster you’ll end up at having corporate personhood being the root cause is these outcomes. It’s the lobbying that alters government approach and corporations have freedumb of speech rights so it’s near impossible to eliminate lobbying under that arrangement. Obviously corporate personhood can easily be destroyed with a good league argument but……
Very informative interview, good stuff.
American really is a corporate hellscape...
Great discussion.
#abolishshareholders ??
Living in Ohio right now got me feeling like the Pogues the way this shit is like a Dirty Old Town
This was the exact scenario at the beginning of Atlas Shrugged
Well if Pete used that power he would be really sabotaging his future at McKenzie
It’s the money, yall. The money, the money, the money.
Would have been pertinent to compare how other countries handle regulatory corruption.
Mayor Pizza Rat > Mayor Pete
30:00 Hang on a second BUDDY!!! Brownie did a Heckuva job!!!
“Limited Hangout”
wow, unironic "thanks Obama"
Man this is probably gonna be worst than the Lac-Mégantic incident, this is just gonna be another Flint isn't it?
A lot more people are gonna die long term from this
No.
don't worry, the toxic gas is safe and effective
It's not safe but all the tweets still using footage from 10 days ago is getting old
@ANTIStraussian very useful to understand the scale of pollution. some of those toxins will be present long after we enter the ground.
Where the pitchforks and torches at?
Americans are to comfortable and have been trained to respect authority and power. I don't see people rioting until we have actual food shortages and Wallstreet owns all the homes and starts charging 5000 a month for rent.
Start it up big talker
Nationalize all railroads
I don't get why the fussy Pete gays keep bringing up Iowa. Dude was in 2nd place and dropped out to endorse the 5th place guy after he won the most racist state
Mayo Man needs to be reassigned (and I'm not talking about his gender).
More like re-educated.
To the Gulags.
For a less pessimistic, doom-scrolling take, from a chemical engineer...
"First, the much-discussed vinyl chloride (VC). Also called chloroethene (C2H3Cl) this molecule is mainly used as a source material to make the polymer PVC (polyvinylchloride) the world’s third most produced plastic. VC production tonnage is in tens of millions of tons/year
Persistence relates to how fast a substance biodegrades. The gas VC reacts in the air with hydroxyl radicals (-OH) resulting from ozone radiation and other things. It is degraded into other components with a half-life of 2.3 days (after 2.3 days, half has been degraded)
Thus, after 4.6 days, there is 1/4 of the original VC left, after 6.9 days, there is 1/8 left, etc. This is considered the major “sink” through which VC disappears into the environment. The gas is heavier than air and tends to stay closer to the ground.
Contrary to some claims, VC is not readily soluble in water, to the point that water degradation tests haven’t been carried out as even if it reacts, it bubbles back out in a few hours. There are only very specific scenarios where one would be into contact with VC through water
In a worst case scenario of massive contamination, boiling is recommended to eliminate it as it releases the gasses from the water, but at this time after the incident it’s unlikely significant amounts remain in the liquid.
However some of the substances VC decomposes into in the air can have a very negative impact on water quality and are water-soluble, it would mainly lead to strong water acidification in a radius around the spill site.
I’ve seen claims VC is spontaneously polymerizing in contact with air. This also seems relatively unlikely reaction conditions for forming PVC in industrial settings require a t° between 325-350 kelvins (51-76°C roughly) in a liquid suspension with a pressure of 13 atms
Now for the inhalation toxicity, there have been serious correlations found between chronic PVC dust and VC inhalation and pneumoconiosis (lung disease) and angiosarcoma (lymph node cancer), with effects on the liver and even tumour induction. Overall while the short-term effects are grave, the VC by itself will rapidly degrade in the environment and on a timescale of at worst months or years environmental contamination levels for this particular pollutant will likely become negligible.
Overall it seems likely to me that while the effects are grave short term with regards to the vicinity of the site and surrounding wildlife and waterways, the damage to the environment (as in, it being toxic to animals and plants) -- does not seem likely to prolong itself in the very long term. Of course if pollutant concentrations were high and animal die-offs occurred, it may take longer for recolonization to take place, but that’s always a bit random.
In conclusion while I strongly confirm that this is an environmental calamity that may cause illness to people nearby, claims that it will be an “American Chernobyl” or that the entire area will be irreparably devastated seem overblown in the face of the current evidence."
"Homer, your bravery and quick thinking have turned a potential Chernobyl into a mere Three Mile Island! Bravo!"
im gay
Send in more trains with *ACTUAL* hazardous chemicals already!
cool cool except what we’re worried about is phosgene and hydrogen chloride from burning the vc
But this doesn't let me scream my head off about America Chernobyl so shut up
muh muh muh my sirota
Thanks David!
Great interview
Tear these conglomerates down so they can’t get their stupid campaign revenge!!!
None. The deterrent is for those not acting in a ethically corrupt fashion.
Bring back Conrail.
The Nick Cage movie?
I voted for Joe Biden specifically because of his girl-sniffing antics.
“He’s just like me.”
Mayor Cheat
“Have you punched a “Lobbyist” today?”😉
“Bhopal Nation”
I'm sure they will be #1 with the dirtiest rivier in America...
Even more than the majestic Cuyahoga? You know Randy Newman once wrote a song about it.
can someone text Will that the name of the town is pronounced “Pal-uh-steen”?
thanx
“Justice” is bought and paid for.
but seriously folks, don't forget to vote if you still have hands
vote for who?
@@docdarlin5491 Gaddafi
yes, for who LOL? its not a question, its a statement
@@Mark-jr6ld
Done
Another writ large guy.
get out of my chicken coop
Dec 4 2017 the republicans removed the ECP Braking regulation from the rail industry, this policy require emergency brakes on every car to prevent Multiple cars from derailing. It was designed for cars containing flammable and toxic materials. HE WONT MENTION THAT BECAUSE IT would hold people accountable. I figure republican would try to get ahead of this and blame democrats.
They actually covered that.
And they covered the fact that Biden could have reversed the trump action at any point, but didn't
This audience already knows the Republicans are driving our world into the shitter. They might be experiencing cognitive dissonance about Democratic party corruption, or need talking points for their friends that are Dem party hacks
This is a socialist channel full of lefties who hate republicans lol
@@muscularclassrepresentativ5663 I mean are they wrong?
@@muscularclassrepresentativ5663 that is my own sperm
the houston fatality was the truck driver on the track, not the train engineer. failure of extremely basic fact checking is why i usually skip these kinds of eps. those navy ufo videos have been explained/debunked a million times since release, i roll my eyes ever time will brings it up.
I think you’re missing the forest for the trees here, pal
The guy in the truck was a train engineer no?
Engineers drive around in trucks going from train to train instead of having one for each train which has been criticized by the unions for being unsafe.
@@Democrities i have basically the same beliefs politically i just find them annoying sometimes. im not missing anything
Mass Formation Psychosis
Shit up 🤓
Psyop
Proof?
Well be back when you guys flip your script and start saying it was a coordinated attack ☠
@@josephjuncaj5784 it's a psyop and a coordinated attack
@@SUPERBURLBOYROY - I think you're a psyop.
You're glowing like a spook.
@@deathmagneto-soy my member is a member of skull and bones ☠️
David Cirrosis, materially and financially privileged, “nice guy” “Liberal”.
BEAT POOTYJUDGE AT IT AGAIN
Pfft, Bernie bro sirota forgot to name check queen Lori Laughlin on criminals held accountable. Typical Bernie bro behavior.
classic Good Government situation, thank god for regulations or things could have been far worse; zero historical stories of individual businessmen/companies building great railroads in the past without government aid--never happened... fax!!!
ok libertaryan
It's that individual businessman's/company's god given birth right to poison the ground water of a small town! Classic good capitalism situation.
I you referring to those railroads that were funded by government corruption and revolves around the brutal exploitation of natives an at-risk immigrants? The railroads that only ever became nationally effective when the state and federal government was forced to capitulate to demands for regulations by labor and consumers?
@@THEMATTHIAS225 you think they give a fuck about slave labor? They're a libertarian.
@@THEMATTHIAS225 exactly rockafeller and Vanderbilt are actually government stooges and definitely didn't believe in social darwinism.
Where are the American Andreas Baader and Ulrike Meinhof? Your time has come.
It's so funny how much people dislike and distrust the government, especially the federal government, but at the same time want the railroads to be nationalized.
If you don't like the way your state is being run you can vote out your governor
How do you vote out unnamed CEO
@@Ktmfan450 At a shareholder meeting lol. The CEO is in no way "unnamed"
@@kodakgreen6047 First you have to own shares in the company and that's if you even care because rich people aren't having trains crash in their backyards
@@kodakgreen6047 lmao what Class 1 railroad do you own a controlled share of?
What are you 14 years old? What a silly take.