Why is that funny???? Any of the top players would have had the ref place the cue ball in the correct position because they wouldn’t want to gain an unfair advantage. So yes, his integrity has to be called into question because he would definitely have been able to see the difference in the second attempt. It’s right what Steve says that he might have just gone with the flow, but in all honesty he would have 100% known that he could see more of the yellow on the second attempt and therefore took advantage of it and that’s not how snooker players behave.
@@LeeBillinghamTabanaArt it’s funny in retrospect because Wenbo would later be found to be the ring leader of a massive match fixing ring involving multiple Chinese players . Using intimidation on a lot of the younger players to get them to throw matches
@@bartonbank2531 Yes, I agree. I should have thought about that and realised that you were coming at it from that prospective. My bad! I just thought it was another troll comment sticking up for him in the belief that anyone blaming him would therefore be woke. You know the usual brain dead fodder that frequent most comment sections nowadays. Apologies :0)
Very rare for Joe to get this emotional like this - I think this was actually the only time he ever did. Liang cheated throughout his entire career, as we all now know. Remember the Last 48 in the world championship against Fergal? 9-9 and Wenbo clearly feathers the white, no player at any level would not be aware they’d fouled…he gets away with it, wins 10-9. This particular match with Joe cost Swail a place in the top 16, and from that moment he declined rapidly; in 2012 he lost his professional tour place altogether. He did regain it with a fantastic run to the Paul Hunter Classic final and other events the next season - and eventually made it back to 53rd in the rankings at one point - but was never the same player again.
Wen Bo is a cheat but that’s Joe Swails weak mentality that is the issue for all the latter stuff you mentioned , that’s got nothing to do with Wen Bo cheating here , life will always screw you over but you need to fight back
@bookieal agreed. Joe was a tremendous player, but had a tendency to regularly let himself down with poor cueball control at the wrong time and would then lose frames trying to pot his way out of trouble. Hence why he was never a top top player despite being capable of beating anyone on his day. In the two world semi's he reached he was in with a fighting chance against both Stevens and O'Sullivan entering the last session, but collapsed completely when it counted. Similarly he was in a strong position after the first session in his only ranking final against Carter in the Welsh Open and should have won, but never ended up winning another frame.
I never knew this happened and its ironic that it ended sour when the 2 players were in fits of giggles earlier in the match and seemed to be played in good spirits. Anyway whether liang was right or wrong here doesn't take away the fact he actually is a cheating scumbag and rightly banned for life. Good riddance i say
It is refree’s responsibily to put the ball correctly. With the help of technology it’s quite easy for them. No player wants to lose a match. The second attempt was taken after permission of both player’s and referee. Correct me if I’m wrong.
You're wrong. Wenbo should simply say it wasn't in the same place, he knows by the angle and chose to cheat in order to gain an advantage. As the player who takes the shot, you know better than the ref and opposition if the angle has changed.
Isn't this what referees are for? The onus is on the referee to get the balls back correctly, not the players. That's not to say Wenbo isn't a prize **** but I fail to want to admonish him for this when ultimately he's the competitor not the adjudicator
It's ironic that Parrott is saying "the player knows where the balls are". He clearly didn't when he played Tony Knowles in the Worlds in 1992. Down to the colours he played with his hand on the rail at the black end, played a foul and Len Ganley replaced the balls in the wrong position, so much so that when Parrott replayed again he had his hand on the table. The white was probably around a foot further up the table. He was snookered when he played the first shot (a foul) and then he got down and potted the brown. Knowles couldn't believe it and it was a match changer as the score was close at the time.
Absolutely correct, I remember it well - and in that incident John played the shot from a good 4-5 inches away from where the cueball was the first time around.
@@paulwilliams8389 I mentioned this in the comments already. It was more than 4-5 inches as he played from hand on the rail to hand on the table. WC 1992
It's surprising there's not a more accurate way of telling exactly where the balls go after an incident like this. May-be some kind of projection onto the table from above of the position of all the balls. If it can't be done with a projection from above, what about laser lights from some place else. Just a thought.
They have a good system in China where they have an overhead camera and circles which show the previous position of the balls so all the ref has to do is replace the balls inside the circles. Why we don't have it over here I don't know.
Not wenbos fault. How many times do u see it today where players arent sure where the ball was positioned. Almost all ask the 2nd ref to check up on the screen when its available. Im assuming they didnt do that back then. Anyway Swail said he was happy with the respot, no point crying about it after. Btw isnt hawkeye used today
Was this the same match where Wenbo celebrated winning in the penultimate frame, missed a pot later on, got snookered and lost the frame before winning the decider? That was also against Swail, but from memory I thought it was a best of 25 second round match.
Check selby against Murphy.. wc final..snooker behind green i thinkw..missed 3 or 4 times..ball replaced wrong the 5th time..selby went with it...SELBY ALSO A CHEAT
The miss rule in snooker is wank. Any foul should be ball in hand. No pissin about replacing balls and players have to make their best attempt every time
I totally agree with you and have said this myself for a while. It would cut out this farce where players can have four or five attempts at rolling up to a ball when they are snookered.
In a sport where one must dress up, you’d think sportsmanship and integrity would be huge. Wenbo knows the second shot was from a different position. Not a good thing
It's still a mess though - left a bit, right a bit, towards you etc. I've thought for a while could it not be possible to have a system above the table connected to hawkeye that shines a laser spot onto the baize where the centre of the ball was?
They are banning all the good players there’s definitely not much left now, I’m guessing that’s why o Sullivan wants to go the China to play match fixing is terrible but I think you should be allowed to bet yourself to win, are you allowed to do that?
@@SnookerBreak ok thanks! I guess it’s a job, but lower ranked ain’t earning that much really and Barry earn is making a killing. I guess that’s why they match fix!
@@JJmoony Players can't bet at all. Back in the 70s/80s it was very different and if a player made a big break in the Worlds and the top prize was possibly 3k upwards they would often hedge by betting against it as insurance. It didn't mean they wanted the break to be bettered but if someone did do it then they had some sort of compensation. Some players also used to back themselves to win matches or at the interval if they were behind. Bill Werbeniuk backed himself £200 at 5/1 when he trailed Alex Higgins in the masters 1983 and came back to win 5-4. Willie Thorne and Alex Higgins backed themselves when the odds were right.
@@digeme69 thanks for taking the time to tell me it’s a pity the lower rank players can’t bet themselves to win only as I think the less worry about wages would help them take pressure off and concentrate on learning their game and becoming better players, they lost some good players because of lack of financial gain, like all of us I guess! Cheers for that.
Not just in sport, it's everything. Everyone is being turned more and more corrupt and opportunistic. The very executives of the WPBSA are now going to sell the sport down the river to Saudi oil sheikhs or the Chinese gov.
The Chinese culture does not require honesty as a tenant. We in Christian based countries grow up knowing the Ten Commandments and think everyone knows or assumes these beliefs. Not so. Places like India and the Middle East have a totally different mindset.
Who needs Christianity as some kind of moral compass when it doesn't - despite what you imply - own 'exclusive rights' to human standards of behaviour and ethics? No religion does. Decency (and honesty) comes from within ourselves - starting with a good, principled upbringing and grounding, and nobody needs religion for that. Well, the rational among us don't.
What a daft comment. Britain is a secular country - our churches are empty and I doubt if your average Brit could name more than three of the Ten Commandments.
What are you talking about, a country of alcohol consumption, and eating pork, talking about Christian country, you have nothing spiritual about this country, so please don't get on your high horse mate, thank you very much.
Exactly joe trusted the ref did his job correctly fs. Its not up to every player to question the referees integrity and jump up and check it from every angle so joe was conned.
@@barrybrennan6101 so you think this referee was cheating? Is anyone really questioning the ref's integrity here? It's just a mistake,no nefarious things going on by the officials.
You can clearly see a nod from Joe, then he looks away, looks back, isn't happy then begins protesting. You can't agree to be happy once the ball is re-posistioned and then unhappy after the ball is struck
But you can expect your opponent not to be a cheating little weasel and always put trust in them to have it spotted correctly. They are the only person who truly knows if it's correct. Let's not pretend we don't know how snooker works.
@@RoscoBanks the difference my friend is that I'm not arrogant enough to not know there's a difference....you say what you like about what you know that's impossible for you to know....doesn't make it so.
History books speak for themselves re Wenbo, a horrible cheat, who dragged younger Chinese players down to his level. Abhorrent person.
And a wife beater
‘ are we questioning wenbos integrity !? ‘ 😂😂
If he has cheated, yes.
Why is that funny???? Any of the top players would have had the ref place the cue ball in the correct position because they wouldn’t want to gain an unfair advantage. So yes, his integrity has to be called into question because he would definitely have been able to see the difference in the second attempt. It’s right what Steve says that he might have just gone with the flow, but in all honesty he would have 100% known that he could see more of the yellow on the second attempt and therefore took advantage of it and that’s not how snooker players behave.
@@LeeBillinghamTabanaArt it’s funny in retrospect because Wenbo would later be found to be the ring leader of a massive match fixing ring involving multiple Chinese players . Using intimidation on a lot of the younger players to get them to throw matches
@@bartonbank2531 Yes, I agree. I should have thought about that and realised that you were coming at it from that prospective. My bad! I just thought it was another troll comment sticking up for him in the belief that anyone blaming him would therefore be woke. You know the usual brain dead fodder that frequent most comment sections nowadays. Apologies :0)
Lol
Very rare for Joe to get this emotional like this - I think this was actually the only time he ever did. Liang cheated throughout his entire career, as we all now know. Remember the Last 48 in the world championship against Fergal? 9-9 and Wenbo clearly feathers the white, no player at any level would not be aware they’d fouled…he gets away with it, wins 10-9. This particular match with Joe cost Swail a place in the top 16, and from that moment he declined rapidly; in 2012 he lost his professional tour place altogether. He did regain it with a fantastic run to the Paul Hunter Classic final and other events the next season - and eventually made it back to 53rd in the rankings at one point - but was never the same player again.
Wen Bo is a cheat but that’s Joe Swails weak mentality that is the issue for all the latter stuff you mentioned , that’s got nothing to do with Wen Bo cheating here , life will always screw you over but you need to fight back
@bookieal agreed. Joe was a tremendous player, but had a tendency to regularly let himself down with poor cueball control at the wrong time and would then lose frames trying to pot his way out of trouble. Hence why he was never a top top player despite being capable of beating anyone on his day. In the two world semi's he reached he was in with a fighting chance against both Stevens and O'Sullivan entering the last session, but collapsed completely when it counted. Similarly he was in a strong position after the first session in his only ranking final against Carter in the Welsh Open and should have won, but never ended up winning another frame.
Wenbo will now be confined to dodgy snooker competitions in the back alleys of Shanghai.
As long as it isn’t associated with WPBSA or WSF or ESBA he can play;
I wonder if he's allowed to go play Chinese eight ball? Loads of money in that.
Once a cheat always a cheat
Good riddance
He didn't just cheat Joe, he cheated snooker, the fans and all sport in general... despicable.
I never knew this happened and its ironic that it ended sour when the 2 players were in fits of giggles earlier in the match and seemed to be played in good spirits. Anyway whether liang was right or wrong here doesn't take away the fact he actually is a cheating scumbag and rightly banned for life. Good riddance i say
Swail knew all along! Us snooker fans should owe him an apology
Gladly Wenbo never plays a snooker ranking event anymore in his whole life. Karma! 😂😂
They should have put subtitles on both players.
3:53 1.8mm not 18mm.
Nope, 18mm
Wait until you find out what he's like away from snooker. Your head might fall off.
Yep, convicted of beating a partner..
Yeah he apparently supports a Palestinian state. Disgusting
It is refree’s responsibily to put the ball correctly. With the help of technology it’s quite easy for them. No player wants to lose a match. The second attempt was taken after permission of both player’s and referee. Correct me if I’m wrong.
You're wrong.
Wenbo should simply say it wasn't in the same place, he knows by the angle and chose to cheat in order to gain an advantage.
As the player who takes the shot, you know better than the ref and opposition if the angle has changed.
Joe Swail: What was that Liang? Your banned for life 😂
Brilliant video. Never knew about this.
Parrot and Mr grey must have piles sitting on the fence 😖
Most people from similar backgrounds do 😂
He's been banned now for match fixing
Isn't this what referees are for? The onus is on the referee to get the balls back correctly, not the players. That's not to say Wenbo isn't a prize **** but I fail to want to admonish him for this when ultimately he's the competitor not the adjudicator
Before the days of the live replay monitors
It's ironic that Parrott is saying "the player knows where the balls are". He clearly didn't when he played Tony Knowles in the Worlds in 1992. Down to the colours he played with his hand on the rail at the black end, played a foul and Len Ganley replaced the balls in the wrong position, so much so that when Parrott replayed again he had his hand on the table. The white was probably around a foot further up the table. He was snookered when he played the first shot (a foul) and then he got down and potted the brown. Knowles couldn't believe it and it was a match changer as the score was close at the time.
Amazing to see Parrot commentating on this 😂😂😂
Pretty sure John Parrott did something very similar against Tony Knowles some years before this.
Yes he did as I recall
Tony was my idol and was gutted for him at the time
I was only a kid but it did happen and TK was cheated in my opinion
Absolutely correct, I remember it well - and in that incident John played the shot from a good 4-5 inches away from where the cueball was the first time around.
@@paulwilliams8389 I mentioned this in the comments already. It was more than 4-5 inches as he played from hand on the rail to hand on the table. WC 1992
Steve you cant bend the rules like that it finds you out .john is more honest he should have said its not where it was
.
The player knows if it's moved.
It's surprising there's not a more accurate way of telling exactly where the balls go after an incident like this. May-be some kind of projection onto the table from above of the position of all the balls. If it can't be done with a projection from above, what about laser lights from some place else. Just a thought.
They have a good system in China where they have an overhead camera and circles which show the previous position of the balls so all the ref has to do is replace the balls inside the circles. Why we don't have it over here I don't know.
Wenbo cheated irrespective of the other guy missing the brown
The bent jock higgins set the tone.
No, more like Stephen Lee.
Not wenbos fault. How many times do u see it today where players arent sure where the ball was positioned. Almost all ask the 2nd ref to check up on the screen when its available. Im assuming they didnt do that back then. Anyway Swail said he was happy with the respot, no point crying about it after. Btw isnt hawkeye used today
I haven't seen hawkeye used for a while. I think it stopped when covid hit.
Was this the same match where Wenbo celebrated winning in the penultimate frame, missed a pot later on, got snookered and lost the frame before winning the decider? That was also against Swail, but from memory I thought it was a best of 25 second round match.
I'm not actually sure as this is the only bit I've got - but this was a best of 25 second round and Wenbo won 13-12 so it probably was.
We need subtitles.
RUclips has automatic subtitles if you need them.
Wenbo is a Cheat.
Come on whats all the fuzz about, no ones ever cheats in snooker ever 😂
Take a look at Ali Carter he is a renowned cheat
Check selby against Murphy.. wc final..snooker behind green i thinkw..missed 3 or 4 times..ball replaced wrong the 5th time..selby went with it...SELBY ALSO A CHEAT
Lesson learned. Check it. Can't blame the player when 2 others allow it
Joe should of check it himself...
I’m more concerned about who’s moving the black…
There’s the language barrier as well which no one mentions, harrong splace, ah so!
The 2 lads eating well back in the day
The miss rule in snooker is wank. Any foul should be ball in hand. No pissin about replacing balls and players have to make their best attempt every time
I totally agree with you and have said this myself for a while. It would cut out this farce where players can have four or five attempts at rolling up to a ball when they are snookered.
Nope it's great. Go play pool little girl.
It’s a sad day when this shit is taken precedence over the game itself..
Wangbo is the Pete Rose of pro snooker they both bet on the Red's ahaaa
In a sport where one must dress up, you’d think sportsmanship and integrity would be huge. Wenbo knows the second shot was from a different position. Not a good thing
Speaking of dressing up, Steve’s untucked shirt is a disgrace!
@@johnsrabe lol
Technology has moved on since this as they have a video ref who can line up the ball on a screen to the previous shot .
It's still a mess though - left a bit, right a bit, towards you etc. I've thought for a while could it not be possible to have a system above the table connected to hawkeye that shines a laser spot onto the baize where the centre of the ball was?
I think the refs have been just as dodgy as the cheating players..remember when ROS had to tell the ref off for not re-spotting the black a few times.
This isn’t down to the player it’s down to the ref are we heading to VAR in snooker now
In Any sport where betting is involved there are cheats ----
The black moves too
They are banning all the good players there’s definitely not much left now, I’m guessing that’s why o Sullivan wants to go the China to play match fixing is terrible but I think you should be allowed to bet yourself to win, are you allowed to do that?
No I don't think so. Not even the players families are allowed to bet I think!
@@SnookerBreak ok thanks! I guess it’s a job, but lower ranked ain’t earning that much really and Barry earn is making a killing. I guess that’s why they match fix!
@@JJmoony Players can't bet at all. Back in the 70s/80s it was very different and if a player made a big break in the Worlds and the top prize was possibly 3k upwards they would often hedge by betting against it as insurance. It didn't mean they wanted the break to be bettered but if someone did do it then they had some sort of compensation. Some players also used to back themselves to win matches or at the interval if they were behind. Bill Werbeniuk backed himself £200 at 5/1 when he trailed Alex Higgins in the masters 1983 and came back to win 5-4. Willie Thorne and Alex Higgins backed themselves when the odds were right.
@@digeme69 thanks for taking the time to tell me it’s a pity the lower rank players can’t bet themselves to win only as I think the less worry about wages would help them take pressure off and concentrate on learning their game and becoming better players, they lost some good players because of lack of financial gain, like all of us I guess! Cheers for that.
We all know what happened to cheating wenbo
I don't think that Steve Davis interpretation of the rules is strictly correct in this instance.
This is getting more and more into sport in Britain. VAR will sort it out but for who? It goes on and on. I'll say no more.
Not just in sport, it's everything. Everyone is being turned more and more corrupt and opportunistic. The very executives of the WPBSA are now going to sell the sport down the river to Saudi oil sheikhs or the Chinese gov.
Joe was right all this time
Steve, please tuck your shirt in. Thank you.
Could not hear a word
Get out your chair and have a look then, shove it, opponents means opponents sucker.
He's banned for a now so...
The Chinese culture does not require honesty as a tenant. We in Christian based countries grow up knowing the Ten Commandments and think everyone knows or assumes these beliefs. Not so. Places like India and the Middle East have a totally different mindset.
Who needs Christianity as some kind of moral compass when it doesn't - despite what you imply - own 'exclusive rights' to human standards of behaviour and ethics? No religion does. Decency (and honesty) comes from within ourselves - starting with a good, principled upbringing and grounding, and nobody needs religion for that. Well, the rational among us don't.
@@Turrican60wrong
What a daft comment. Britain is a secular country - our churches are empty and I doubt if your average Brit could name more than three of the Ten Commandments.
What are you talking about, a country of alcohol consumption, and eating pork, talking about Christian country, you have nothing spiritual about this country, so please don't get on your high horse mate, thank you very much.
@@EFDH6637 when are you fools going to realise no one outside of your brainwashed dogma gives a damm about eating pork.
Swails fault for accepting the placement before checking fully for himself. Not cheating
Strictly speaking, yes. That's why I put a question mark and said you decide. Swail thought he could trust him though.
absolutely
Strongly disagree, players should be trustworthy enough to not make that necessary.
Exactly joe trusted the ref did his job correctly fs. Its not up to every player to question the referees integrity and jump up and check it from every angle so joe was conned.
@@barrybrennan6101 so you think this referee was cheating? Is anyone really questioning the ref's integrity here? It's just a mistake,no nefarious things going on by the officials.
it found him out in the end his cheating.
Well we all know now he is a cheat and a betting fraud, so the question is answered. He will enjoy his ban and his waste of talent !!!!
A video about 18mm when John Higgins swallowed 300k!
Well said
Absolutely. There is not a single BBC commentator who has ever called Higgins a cheat.
You comment that when people are dying in the world.
Wow. What timing.
@@RoscoBanks slightly different subject Rosco lad!
Chamberlain was a terrible referee.
When Bo cheated Sohail got hard done by
😅😅😅
You can clearly see a nod from Joe, then he looks away, looks back, isn't happy then begins protesting.
You can't agree to be happy once the ball is re-posistioned and then unhappy after the ball is struck
But you can expect your opponent not to be a cheating little weasel and always put trust in them to have it spotted correctly.
They are the only person who truly knows if it's correct.
Let's not pretend we don't know how snooker works.
@@RoscoBanks and let's not pretend to know for sure something on which there can be no surety.
@@rickallen9167 I am sure he knew it was incorrect and that is what matters.
You feel free to be unsure about anything and everything you like.
@@RoscoBanks the difference my friend is that I'm not arrogant enough to not know there's a difference....you say what you like about what you know that's impossible for you to know....doesn't make it so.
Don't be misguided in to believing I'm outright saying Wenbo didn't cheat...
I'm simply implying there's plenty of room for doubt here.
It's just frustration. Referee always asks both players if they agree with the position of the ball, so it's everybody's fault.
in defence of Wenbo, he is from China where they have a culture of never questioning Authority, so he won't dispute the Ref's replacing the ball.
Joe spat his dummy out simple as that
I'm sure for a simpleton such as yourself u believe it, but with the added benefit of heinsight you are doubly wrong, go figure imagine that 😅
@@maryryan9464 just because Mary cheated it doesn't mean everyone does
2 player ...the ref ....2nd ref and hawkeye ......Joe sounds like a bad looser .
this nip is banned for life isnt he,a pity he was a good player and a charcter,got on well with ronnie
Is that conscious racism or stupidity? No snooker in Japan and cheating isn't a national sport there as it is in China.
Cheating Limehouse link
Lol