Effort and Non Effort in Buddhist Practice
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- "Right effort" is part of the Eightfold Path of Buddhist practice. It's also said that there is no effort to be made, and that non-effort is the appropriate way to approach practice. What's going on here, and can we reconcile these ideas?
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✅ Suttas mentioned:
suttacentral.net/mn26/en/sujato
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suttacentral.net/mn32/en/sujato
suttacentral.net/an10.51/en/s...
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00:00 Intro
01:41 Effort in early Buddhism
04:44 Downsides to effort
05:31 Later Buddhism
06:12 Enlightenment vs. full Buddhahood
06:43 Buddha Nature
08:33 Escaping confusion
09:18 Even non-effort is effort
12:28 Choosing which frame is right for us
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The Zen concept of "no effort" was influenced by the Daiost concept of 為無為 (wéi wú wéi) which translates as "effortless effort/action". It doesn't mean a kind of lethargy or inertia or passivity, but it's meant to describe an attitude which is supposed to enable you to act without forcing things.
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also lethargy and inertia is effort in control by trying to make things not real that in paradox - make them real for our uncosious and creates karma and suffering
I agree with the previous commenter that the key here is the notion of right effort. Initially, when we begin our practice, it requires considerable and intense effort to stay still, to focus on the breath in order to still the mind. Once you become comfortable with this, it requires less intense effort to initiate and maintain, and a more relaxed, light approach is necessary in order to maintain the practice. I also think, as you alluded to, that the Buddha was speaking to monks when he said that intense, vigorous effort is required. When you consider that these are people who completely changed their ways of life, gave up the comforts of a home, to engage as mendicants, it's no wonder that they would have to apply maximum effort to stay on that path.
Yes exactly, the aim is right effort, which will be different for different people.
Not " ordinary effort" but " Right effort" is the key to open the door of enlightenment. The problem is effort on what and what kind of effort is " Right" . The missing link between " principal" and " practice" of Buddhism. How to combine and corelate with Four Noble Truth and Four foundations of Mindfulness is essential. Who can teach and how can I get it ?
Great question! There are a lot of fine teachers, you just have to find one that's right for you. It can take time.
Now I understand why the samurai loved this philosophy. It aligns perfectly with their virtues.
Well perhaps, but at least early Buddhism was relentlessly pacifist.
The goal is to put in no effort because one is linked with being awake but in the meantime we read and discuss the dharma - seek out a sangha and orient our behavior to model the buddha as best we can really know him
The Buddha said “few make it to the other shore, most run up and down this shore” and that is what we do when we think enlightenment is effort in the form of dogmatic displays like mediation, reading dharma or going to sanghas when those are just rafts to reach the other shore.
I myself am content with running up and down this shore for this lifetime - I need daily readings and discussions to help me along - but a truly enlightened person wouldn’t NEED any of those things at all
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This reminds me exactly of Wu Wei in Confucian / Taoist literature ; "make an effort to follow the path of least resistance"
Yes it seems similar to me as well.
This reminds me of advice I've heard before and that has helped me a lot these past few months - stuff like "messiness around you will put you off and make everything harder, so make the effort to tidy your room". Simple stuff like sweeping my floor and the like has shown me just how much messiness had been taking a mental toll on me. Everything becomes so much easier if I put myself in an environment where it's easier to breathe...
I think before the focus on effort, one should develop the right mindset through proper knowledge. Otherwise you fall in the trap of achieving success through least effort or that only through hard work you can succeed. Both of which attracts followers who don't do enough of a background check
Yes investigate first, nevertheless I think one inevitably has to start to make effort before one has complete proper knowledge.
Thanks Doug, for me and I guess for everyone this is a big topic. I guess a more pragmatic approach is the solution.
Yes, pragmatic and mindful.
I like the idea of no-meditation. I practice a bit like this master wrote in the text you read
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Thank you Doug:)
You are very welcome!
I’m a dharma teacher in training in the Kwan Un School of Zen and for me, it’s like joining the army. For our half day “long sits” we start with 108 prostrations at 4:30am. Not easy if you’re not used to them. Some of our members do 1000 or even 3000 prostrations during solo retreats. This takes discipline and effort. Retreats can be brutal. Every time I do a 7-day retreat I lose 7 lbs. There’s that famous retreat in Tibet which is 3 years, 3 months, 3 days. All of this takes effort.
That's for sure!
But I agree it's confusing chanting the heart sutra "...with nothing to attain" and then doing all these forms. Great video and great analysis!@@DougsDharma
@@davidmendoza1300I tend to think of the non-attaining and the other nones mentioned in the Heart sutra as describing what it would be like when one travels into the depth of the prajna paramita- kinda like the raft simile where all efforts eventually leads to effortless. Or like a pianist playing effortlessly at the pinnacle of his skills - everything becomes second nature
Im very glad you made this i wish all who are new to meditation would watch this it might save them some massive frustration.
Thanks for always teaching me, Doug. Videos like yours are invaluable for those trying to increase their understanding of both Buddhism but also life.
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Zen or chan style meditation, has always gone hand in hand with true martial arts. It can I believe, lead to a perfect balance of effort and non-effort. 🙏
Very interesting topic
As somebody who embraced Daoism 42 years ago, I would say that what strikes me is the similarity of approaches between early Ch'an and the teachings of classical writings of daoist philosophers almost 1000 years before. I was even more surprised when I came across the teachings of radical Dzogchen and also Mahamudra from the Tibetan tradition where clearly non-effort and even non-meditation is taught again and again endlessly. So I am no longer sure that the Buddhist non striving, effortless practice is related to Daoism or if it is the outgrowth of indigenous developments within Indian Mahayanists itself.
Yes this is a very interesting question. My understanding is that both played roles, but that there was enough within early Indian Mahāyāna (particularly the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras) to justify much of it.
I do an exercise called "standing". The arms are up, hands about face height, knees are bent, head and back are as they are for sitting straight back head pulled up at the crown tongue tip on the palate behind the teeth. You can find many videos about it online, probably under the name zhan zhuang, or high horse position, or anything similar. I've seen "teachers" sternly recommend that you do no more than 10 minutes to do it correctly. I learned it 50 years ago, we were taught to do no less than 30 minutes and to work on doing an hour a day till we could do that for 10 years. I have long since done my 10 years, these days I do 40 minutes, like a zen sitting time.
The difference between those teachers and mine, is exactly the notion of right effort. The way you stand for an hour is by working up to it and learning to deeply relax. It's effort -- I spent a year working up to 1/2 hour. It's a lot of effort, and perseverance, but all about relaxing. It's exactly right effort at doing no effort at all.
Yes I think exercise and sports are clear examples of the effort of 'no effort'. If you're doing them right, they should be effortless. (But still ... they require effort in the sense that they aren't lazy!)
@@DougsDharma This is not an example of sports. It's an example of meditation. But you are correct, sports do provide examples.
Rodney Smith covers this topic thoroughly in his books. I highly recommend them!
Great, thanks!
Going with the simile "like your head is on fire," running around frantically trying to put out a fire, can give the fire strength and cause it to spread; remaining calm can help extinguish the fire more effectively
True! Depends on the person.
I think one thing that can be confusing about effort is that it implies wanting to bring about a certain state of affairs, but we are warned off that in other situations as a kind of craving or grasping, and hence a cause of suffering, and exactly what we should be giving up or letting go of in order to escape suffering, which is the point of the whole thing. So making effort in meditation (or daily life dharma practice) seems like trying to bring about the state of affairs where we don’t try and bring about any particular state of affairs. It seems contradictory.
Yes, that's right, it's kind of paradoxical. I discussed a bit of that in a past video: ruclips.net/video/ZTqibLMY1LM/видео.html
@@DougsDharmaThanks for the link. I will watch it now. 🙏🏻
The effort (Viriya) to gain ownership comes from views (Ditti) and sensual desires (Kamacchanda) with a pain until we remove the craving to gain ownership of something from our minds. The removal of ownerships from the mind with the help of the four noble truths is the right view.
If you tune it too tight, the string will break. If you tune it too loose, it will not play. The Buddha was inspired to the middle way by a musician giving a music lesson!! Skillful means.
Exactly so!
Great content as always. I have a question about Zen meditation. Where are the jhanas found in Zen? Is silent illumination (shikantaza) almost like the 4th jhana? Thank you for any help.
It's a great question, and I'd need to do more research to know for sure. Though the word "Zen" literally derives from "jhāna/dhyāna", I'm not sure that such states are really a part of Zen practice. Shikantaza can simply mean "just sitting", which isn't a state of jhāna, at least as understood in the early texts. There are lots of complications, since sometimes the word "jhāna/dhyāna" is taken simply to mean something like "meditation" or "samādhi" generally, and that's not quite specific enough.
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The Buddha lived at a time when the relaxation we often associate with meditation was replaced withe severe austerities, tapas involving essentially torture to create an unbreakable willpower and mental focus. Once one had obtained this essentially supernatural level of willpower they could direct it towards any goal they pleased including reaching enlightenment
Perhaps so, but the Buddha tried such techniques and rejected them before attaining his own enlightenment.
@@DougsDharma Would he have reached enlightenment if he wasn't first disciplined in this manner though. We should not underestimate the level of willpower and mental focus required to commit to sitting under a tree in mediation and saying I will either reach enlightenment or I will sit here until I die
An example of non effort might be catching a falling item from the kitchen cupboard, an intuitive act of non volitionial living, no me, no I, no thought. It is only afterwards that the actioning is claimed by the doer.
Yes, that's one way to look at it. Thanks!
I wonder if the buddha ever communicated with maha kassapa about over-efforting. I believe the buddha held kassapa in high regard, and maha kassapa's practice was very austere.
Good question, but so far as I understand it, though Mahakassapa's practice was very austere, it suited him well. What works for one person might not for another.
There’s a line in zen mind beginners mind that quantifies the purpose of zazen to be stilling the mind in the fashion of ripples in the water settling to nothing. Right effort then would only be achieved at the last moment when perfect stillness is achieved and all effort dissolves. It’s a fascinating concept but I fear the Buddha may have viewed it all as too much navel gazing. I do feel the purpose of it all is to be experienced through physical practice with only the minimum explanation. The search for knowledge and meaning in it all is probably indicative of the overactive mind!
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Is this Effort No Effort in Buddhism, similar to Wu Wei or Actionless Action in Daoism?
Yes, it seems to me quite similar, though I am no expert on Daoism.
@@DougsDharmaMake a video on Daoism and connection to Buddhism.
what do you do if you were lazy and used effort meditation to get into meditation, and then you become a perfectionist and need effortless meditation which leads back to laziness and you start the cycle again, how does one put just the right amount of effort in when they seem to oscillate between the two, or is the point to change it up when you get to far one way or the other, and if so how or can one avoid this drift.
There is no easy route, but I would suggest mindfulness. Just observe and be mindful of your practice. Note when it is lazy and when it is too perfectionist. Note how these feel.
Can you make a video on the visuddhimagga, Thai forest tradition, and Burmese vipassana movement
That’s a lot to cover in a single video! I did do one a long time ago on Vipassana: What is Insight (Vipassana) Meditation?
ruclips.net/video/PNZRDPpszkI/видео.html
@@DougsDharma I meant in separate videos, I specifically wanted to know more about the vipassana movement of the 50’s
Quitting RUclips takes effort.
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Language can be so misleading. The word effort brings up images of sweaty red faced lifting when it can mean the pleasant adding of skills. Bhikkhu Analayo writes of Anapanasati, “ The instructions for turning to the breath enjoins that “ mindful one breathes in and mindful one breathes out.” This brief instruction delineates the main practice of which the sixteen steps are a more detailed elaboration.” Where is the effort in this? Where are the heroics demanded by some sects? You can do this for a minute or an hour as the skill grows. Eventually you do it all the time without “effort”. Persistence is a better word for what is needed.
Yes, persistence, diligence, effort, all similar ideas. Depends how we hold them and work with them.
Dougs dao
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GIMME THE LUTE, GIMME THE LUTE!
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Buddha Nature isn't an exact translation, a more litteral translation of TathagataGarbha would be "Tathagata womb/embryo" or "something that contains a Tathagata"
TathagataGarbha doesn't means we are already Buddhas (if we were, then there would be no Bodhisattva), it means we all have the potential to become a Buddha
This potential for Buddhahood is called the "true self" in some Sutra, like the Mahayana Great Nirvana Sutra, it is not a true self in the sense of a soul but in a sense that whatever the conditions are, this potential or possibility to become a Buddha is never erased or destroyed, it is just more or less hidden within
Taoism
Oh, wow, I'm early.
So it would seem! 😄