We definitely would appreciate more long-form content like this or even longer. You’ve got a great voice for conveying historical information. Thanks❣️
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement! We appreciate your taking the time to watch and comment. At some point we'll reintroduce Battle Stars, which will be a bit more involved and longer. Fighting Fleets is coming too and will include substantial content. (In the meantime, we need somehow to climb out of the death valley of low views!)
You're totally correct that the scrutiny was one to wince at being subjected to. It was sobering to listen to the tale. Over all the mistakes and controversies, I hope he was a person who genuinely wanted to serve and earn on his own merits a worth and meaning when so many of his generation are doing the same (after all, he was a 'spare' and not the 'heir' at the time).
One reference that you failed to mention was the book PT-105, by a PT boat skipper who was there in Blackett Strait at the time of the sinking of PT-109. According to him, part of the reason for the loss of the 109 was the failure of senior officers in the area at the time. Each of the four sections of PT boats consisted of four boats, only one of which was equipped with radar. Unfortunately, after the radar equipped PT's fired off their torpedoes, they left the area, leaving the boats which did not have radar behind in the strait. It is my guess (it's been a while since I read the book) that during the briefing before heading out, the PT skippers were given areas to patrol, AND were warned to keep their wakes down to a minimum. The failure of command also shows in what happened to the 109. The destruction of the 109 created a large fireball which would have been seen from a long distance away, but NO ONE investigated, because they believed that there could be no survivors. Jack Kennedy as a result was scapegoated by the Navy in order to coverup their mistakes. And if you don't believe that the Navy wouldn't do that, just take a look at what happened after the Indianapolis was lost.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! We appreciate it. We mentioned Dick Keresey and PT 105 in the description, in the additional reading. I (RR) met him. Great guy! We agree the subject deserves much longer treatment, because of the good points you make. Floatplanes were the bane of the PTs existence, not destroyers. Also, we deliberately left out everything after the ramming, because it involves so much more controversy and analysis, as you wrote. In the Blairs' book, they found that PT-169 (Potter) did investigate but somehow missed them, which is difficult to understand. One of the points we want to develop is that we only know about all this because JFK became president. People screwed up regularly and were sent back out the next day, especially when the stakes are so much smaller (PT boats). You hit on another good point too: the Navy did not publicity, especially bad publicity, and has always been inclined to keep bad news under wraps. Thanks again.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! We hear you, and his peers knew he was well-connected at home, but at the same time we need more research on that point. Everyone involved was really young and asked to cruise around in those poorly protected boats fighting destroyers. Most of the officers were 90-day wonders, reservists and not USNA, and in many ways were expendable, so maybe they got the benefit of the doubt. Hard to say.
@@BearingStraight It was always the connections. Just how the coconut and rescue were spun that Kennedy was the "hero" and "did it all", as if his crew were helpless and unable to think or breathe without him. Joseph Jr. was supposed to be POTUS and John was supoosed to be like Robert in his administation. Everything in Joe Sr's plan got shifted one son / column over.
agree The most famous collision in U.S. Navy history occurred at about 2:30 a.m. on August 2, 1943, a hot, moonless night in the Pacific. Patrol Torpedo boat 109 was idling in Blackett Strait in the Solomon Islands. The 80-foot craft had orders to attack enemy ships on a resupply mission. With virtually no warning, a Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor. The Globe story and others heaped praise on Lieutenant (j.g.) John F. Kennedy, commander of the 109 and son of the millionaire and former diplomat Joseph Kennedy. KENNEDY’S SON IS HERO IN PACIFIC AS DESTROYER SPLITS HIS PT BOAT, declared a New York Times headline. It was Kennedy’s presence, of course, that made the collision big news. And it was his father’s media savvy that helped turn an embarrassing disaster into a tale worthy of Homer. SOURCE, HISTORY NET
'After action' reports are often written by people who weren't involved, and weren't involved for a reason.....SOP were muffled engines, out of gear. Which were changed after the fact.😮😢🎆
We relied on Clay Blair's research, among others, but it seems to be a case of judgment. Run on one muffled engine during a routine patrol, given the presence of enemy floatplanes, but have all three engines online with enemy destroyers in the area, which was the case and the whole point of going out that night in the first place. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
Thanks for Watching! Let us know below if you have a topic you want to see in the future!
We definitely would appreciate more long-form content like this or even longer. You’ve got a great voice for conveying historical information. Thanks❣️
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement! We appreciate your taking the time to watch and comment. At some point we'll reintroduce Battle Stars, which will be a bit more involved and longer. Fighting Fleets is coming too and will include substantial content. (In the meantime, we need somehow to climb out of the death valley of low views!)
You're totally correct that the scrutiny was one to wince at being subjected to. It was sobering to listen to the tale. Over all the mistakes and controversies, I hope he was a person who genuinely wanted to serve and earn on his own merits a worth and meaning when so many of his generation are doing the same (after all, he was a 'spare' and not the 'heir' at the time).
One reference that you failed to mention was the book PT-105, by a PT boat skipper who was there in Blackett Strait at the time of the sinking of PT-109. According to him, part of the reason for the loss of the 109 was the failure of senior officers in the area at the time. Each of the four sections of PT boats consisted of four boats, only one of which was equipped with radar. Unfortunately, after the radar equipped PT's fired off their torpedoes, they left the area, leaving the boats which did not have radar behind in the strait. It is my guess (it's been a while since I read the book) that during the briefing before heading out, the PT skippers were given areas to patrol, AND were warned to keep their wakes down to a minimum.
The failure of command also shows in what happened to the 109. The destruction of the 109 created a large fireball which would have been seen from a long distance away, but NO ONE investigated, because they believed that there could be no survivors. Jack Kennedy as a result was scapegoated by the Navy in order to coverup their mistakes. And if you don't believe that the Navy wouldn't do that, just take a look at what happened after the Indianapolis was lost.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! We appreciate it. We mentioned Dick Keresey and PT 105 in the description, in the additional reading. I (RR) met him. Great guy! We agree the subject deserves much longer treatment, because of the good points you make. Floatplanes were the bane of the PTs existence, not destroyers. Also, we deliberately left out everything after the ramming, because it involves so much more controversy and analysis, as you wrote. In the Blairs' book, they found that PT-169 (Potter) did investigate but somehow missed them, which is difficult to understand. One of the points we want to develop is that we only know about all this because JFK became president. People screwed up regularly and were sent back out the next day, especially when the stakes are so much smaller (PT boats). You hit on another good point too: the Navy did not publicity, especially bad publicity, and has always been inclined to keep bad news under wraps. Thanks again.
Any other officer in command would have been court-martialed for negligence and hazarding a vessel.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment! We hear you, and his peers knew he was well-connected at home, but at the same time we need more research on that point. Everyone involved was really young and asked to cruise around in those poorly protected boats fighting destroyers. Most of the officers were 90-day wonders, reservists and not USNA, and in many ways were expendable, so maybe they got the benefit of the doubt. Hard to say.
@@BearingStraight It was always the connections. Just how the coconut and rescue were spun that Kennedy was the "hero" and "did it all", as if his crew were helpless and unable to think or breathe without him. Joseph Jr. was supposed to be POTUS and John was supoosed to be like Robert in his administation. Everything in Joe Sr's plan got shifted one son / column over.
agree
The most famous collision in U.S. Navy history occurred at about 2:30 a.m. on August 2, 1943, a hot, moonless night in the Pacific. Patrol Torpedo boat 109 was idling in Blackett Strait in the Solomon Islands. The 80-foot craft had orders to attack enemy ships on a resupply mission. With virtually no warning, a Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor.
The Globe story and others heaped praise on Lieutenant (j.g.) John F. Kennedy, commander of the 109 and son of the millionaire and former diplomat Joseph Kennedy. KENNEDY’S SON IS HERO IN PACIFIC AS DESTROYER SPLITS HIS PT BOAT, declared a New York Times headline. It was Kennedy’s presence, of course, that made the collision big news. And it was his father’s media savvy that helped turn an embarrassing disaster into a tale worthy of Homer.
SOURCE, HISTORY NET
'After action' reports are often written by people who weren't involved, and weren't involved for a reason.....SOP were muffled engines, out of gear. Which were changed after the fact.😮😢🎆
We relied on Clay Blair's research, among others, but it seems to be a case of judgment. Run on one muffled engine during a routine patrol, given the presence of enemy floatplanes, but have all three engines online with enemy destroyers in the area, which was the case and the whole point of going out that night in the first place. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.