Going Live Today at 12 PST! Lemme know down below what you all think about this speculation. Do you agree or have anything to add? I hope you all enjoyed and I’m looking forward to seeing your ideas.
I agree with most of what you said in the video. My only discrepancy would be the fact that I believe is not any rogue AI nor that Alt's engram was divided in several pieces, only a couple similar to Jhonny and Jackie, who are not fully copied natural engrams. I believe at the least are 2-3 pieces. the one we meet in Blackwatch (the one that got "stuck" in Arasaka when the original Alt died. It would explain its obsession to destroy Arasaka and merge. Saul mentions she kills everyone not just militia or bots during the final mission, that's vengeance), which has the memories but doesn't share "feelings",etc. The clone/engram takeover from Red (Angel) which has the emotions/feelings but not all the memories, and the one Murphy was/is trying to recover that would have "the main soul" of Alt. Regarding the possible clon with Jhonny, that could open a very thin and far fetched theory of V having maybe a far blood relationship with Jhonny or Alt (?) (if she managed to do anything with the engram before Arasaka got it, she concieved a baby that would have her DNA, Jhonny's and the foreign body Jhonny's engram would be using at the time), which would explain the synch with the engram (which is mentioned by Hellman and Viktor I think).
@@yenyerkun That is a very interesting idea. Especially the part with some sort of connection between V and Silverhand. We know that you need a compatible body for the relic to ideally merge, which is why Saburo used Yorinobu in the devil ending. We don't know everything about the engram so it might just be possible that its ideal in that situation but can just rewrite the brain either way. V being related to Silverhand would be insane but its Cyberpunk for a reason.
Honestly I don’t know what to think. The A.I, or Alt, could have lied to Johnny because, it’s Johnny. She has misgivings towards him. Plus, when Johnny apologises to her in the Rogue Ending, she has a sort of human reaction. If it is Alt, she lied. She mentioned her imprisonment in Arasaka Tower. Somehow even if she wanted to take upon Alt’s appearance, I doubt an A.I with access to infinite amounts of data would choose Alt’s image. It would say “I’m not Alt but I’ll help you as long as you serve my purpose”. She denies who she was because she’s been a cybernetic ghost for half a century. She talks like a supposed robot because of the computerised data that she has collected. Also I don’t think an AI with no connection to Johnny wouldn’t jump at a chance of consuming both V and Johnny, considering how they are famed for being unfettered. The AIs are known for their obsession with knowledge and control, the Peralez side job explains that well. Alt is no more because she is a different being. And one last thing to consider that makes this theory sort of logical is what Alt said - “I was a net runner”. Netrunner’s are corporeal before they start prowling the net. An A.I is a different being in itself.
The last part is not totally correct. There is a very big misconception about A.Is in cyberpunk universe. A big portion of them are NOT A.Is as we know, like Delamain for instance. A lot of the A.Is behind the Blackwall are actually Netrunners who got killed by the soulkiller ICE(Arasaka used the Soulkiller on the net). Not only is this mentioned on the game(When Johnny is in the RD back in 2013 talking to the media if i'm not wrong) but also, Mike Pondsmith itself already have said that in a podcast. So, for an A.I, it's not completely impossible nor uncommon been a netrunner before getting to become an A.I.
@@evandroescutatrap131 Thank you for clearing this up, I didn’t know that. I assumed A.Is were computer personalities who’ve evolved and become independent. Always thought Alt was a unique A.I. Kinda hope that one day it’ll be clarified whether Alt and Johnny are alive.
Wait... I missed that--exactly when does Alt respond when Johnny apologizes in the Rogue Ending? He just says sorry and plugs himself into Mikoshi with that red cable. There's no mention of Johnny's apology once they enter Mikoshi and you have to make the body-swap choice...
Thought so too. Though i am not really sure about the chain of custody for Johnny's engram. Someone asked me 'what if the part where Johnny gets shot by Smasher and Soulkilled before Saburo is when he's recaptured after Angel reimbodies him, just altered by Arasaka to seem like it was back in 2023?'. While i find it very unlikely myself, the only valid source according to the sourcebooks for an engram of him would be Spider Murphy. Hell, the wily b-word has Kei Arasaka on a drive somewhere, so it's not that far-fetched anymore.
I assumed that the part where Saburo personally oversees Johnny's soulkilling was false. That Johnny was killed, and rekilled in Saka tower. It was Morgan Blackhand that Saburo soulkilled, Johnny just took that part of his story for himself. It could also be, that -this- "Johnny Silverhand" is actually just the recompiled fragments of Morgan and Johnny. Hellman admitted to putting this "Johnny Silverhand" in the engram because it was a "low value" engram.
I'm so glad there is someone still talking about cyberpunk with actual passion and not just to shill off update vids or shit on the game again and again. great work choom
Thanks choom. I really appreciate the kind comment, it really does mean a lot to me. I see too many update videos, especially clickbait ones. Gotta have Panam all over the thumbnails too. I try to always bring something unique to the community and start conversation so I hope you continue to enjoy and that I get to see ya in the comments or a live stream again!
The potential for future games, movies, tv shows and animes (all set in this universe) is infinity. I feel like we are barely scraping the surface of it all.
This is amazing. You are really hitting a lot of critical points that are often overlooked. I believe your point on the AI being a random one from the other side of the Black wall is critical to Netwatch's real mission, and Mr. Blue eyes. The component about Biotechnica having already made self aware clones utilizing virtual constructs was critical to piecing all this together. Mr. Blue eyes is a rep of Night Corp, Night Corp being the foundation Richard Night started, and if you dig into the lore of this company, you find very little, other than huge projects that are for the betterment of the city. This is directly in opposition of all other megacorps, who have the sole motivation of pure profit. My theory is that Nicght Corp, Mr. Blue eyes, and potentially any individual wearing the special signet ring is an AI that made it across the black wall into our world. If not a rouge AI, an AI from Night Corp, in the physical world to see the foundations mission through. The point of Biotechnica clones finally closed that open loop I had in this theory of how the Black Wall AI's / Night Corp AI's get access to our physical world. Destroying Mikoshi would serve as a distraction of the real objective of this "Alt" AI, which is to take the engrams stored there to use in proliferation of AI's into Night City. AI's while insanely smart, would lack the mannerisms, and understanding of the physical world that engrams from the physical world would have innate understanding of. I believe that this AI proliferation is somehow connected to FF:06:B5. Rant over, happy to talk more!
Remember as well, night corp isn't really within 2077 but in Silverhands 2023 flashback, they are straight outside a massive window clear as day, clearly the focus of said scenery. They as well were going to be exposed for using AI to basically brainwash people of importance. Wouldn't doubt that Nightcorp is behind Mr Blue Eyes, and that even Blue Eyes is the AI Brainwasher itself. I mean, he's one of the only people out in the open world that we can't touch and gets us to go on some huge heist.
Also the character model for mr blue eyes is the same one for blackhand. So who knows, maybe they got blackhands engram when he fought smasher on top of arasaka tower or maybe it’s something much deeper. Even in the delamain missions there’s one car that knows about v’s situation. Almost like the ai who calls you before talking to Jefferson. The blue eyes may indicate that they’re being controlled by ai. Its deep down the rabbit hole but still something to look into.
Plus on top of that mr blue eyes seems to know about v’s situation aswell.. even the s.c.s.m. « Brendan » knew about v’s situation which points to the ai once again. How do they know?
Your videos are thorough and easy to listen to. Something I wanted to mention on one video regarding Johnnie's memories being altered, there's actually not just credence for this but even evidence in the game itself source book or not. Something so small I didn't see it until just recently and I have played the game atleast a dozen times now. In the very first johnny mission we are seeing the last time Johnny attacked arasaka. In that flashback on the way there Rogue is talking to Thompson on comms! His name even appears on subtitles. But given the next flashback, if you ask Johnny "whatever happened to Thompson" he claims he has no idea and never saw him again.
Thank you I really appreciate the kind words and support. It always means a lot to me and makes me happy creating these videos. This is a very interesting point and now that you mention it, I get a vague remembrance of it from my first playthrough. Thank you for bringing this to my attention it adds a lot more validity from 2077 itself. I'm gonna look out for this in my live stream!
The interesting point of the theory, the fragments, coincides with what we as V witness with Del. Killing Del results in the other personalities navigating into the material world. Alternatively, merging his fraction creates something new, ominous. That Del always rubs me as a new super ai, ready to both return to the old net, and to reach further beyond the new net. And we can always wonder if V-Alt depending on if V is an established runner, exists beyond the black wall in much the same relation to Rache or Alt. Either way, great theory and video, man!
An engram is digital data, and data can be copied. So there's no reason it has to be the case that Angel got some of the fragments and the Alt-AI got the others, it's entirely possible they were both created from Alt's complete engram.
Excellent video and points! I definitely can believe the info on both real and fake Alt, man that puts alot of things in perspective. Keep up the good work!
@@JohnnySilverwrench frankly I can't look at 'Alt' the same way again and honestly it brings alot of her mannerisms and actions to make sense. Look at Engram Johnny for example, he has been stuck in Mikoshi for 50 years but he is very much human based on actions, awareness and pain. With Alt we don't get that, and the crap about wanting to absorb the inhabitants of Mikoshi and either V or Johnny should've gave it away. But I wrote it off, now, I can't. Huh, gives me an idea for a fanfic to try my hand at. Definitely 'Alt' is looking very suspect to me and I will be doing a deep dive into Red.
Yo I gotta get this off my chest when you mentioned Voodoo Boys. Bro…talk about the worst gang ever. They show in that one part of the story and this it. You’d think they’d swore revenge on you for killing their leader and a big member of their pack but but no. They sorta just disappear. Hopefully the DLC dives into them more.
Well when the AI Alt first appeared from the blackwall, she wiped most if not all of their Netrunners in the process. So a good chunk of their man power and leadership gets destroyed, especially if we kill their leader. Which is why they are so sparse in the open world afterward. Though it is definitely lame they don't have an agenda against you.
Well technically she wasn’t even brain dead after being disconnected and trapped in the network. Silverhand actually claims there was a “feeble” pulse. Though of course she wasn’t there in the body.
From what I can tell, this Alt isn't the real one. Just one AI that found a few pieces of her original engram, and decided to use it as a pretty convincing disguise. From what I can tell, the only goals it has are controlling anything it can, and possibly even trying to get into Mikoshi to merge all the engrams (and the information from all those various entire lived lives) into itself, metaphorically feasting on the souls of the dead, then probably moving on to take over more and more systems around the world. I hope we get some clarification on what's going on with her.
If she meant to decieve, she would not straight up tell that she is not Alt, nor would prowl V and Johnny with creepy revelations. She would act as a missed girlfriend, jump onto Johnny and sugarcoat her deal.
Rache, Alt and Spider, if they were 3 of the best runners ever, outwitting Arasaka just might have been child's play to them. So, the ending where Johnny and Alt sail off into the blackwall together, was that just a corrupted, modified endgram and a wild a.i. with Alt data?
These points are amazing, thank you for making this! I wasn’t a fan of the ‘verse until I began playing the game in the summer (friends suggested it as personal interests of mine crossed over into what the ‘verse is all about) and when I first came upon the Pacifica thread of Act 2, I had thought about the bits I’d read in the lore you referenced. Once realizing Silverhand was an unreliable narrator, I tracked down what I could about his team etc just to know more about the characters I’d be interacting with in Act 3, during Silverhand’s quests. I pointed out similarities to a friend about Angel/Alt, as well as the same theory regarding Spider Murphy casting fragments of Alt into the net only to later possibly be placed within a body (Angel) and they thought I was “reaching” lmao. I’m linking them this video now. Definitely giving your other ones a watch because this is the kind of rabbithole I dig myself into with video game lore (the joys of ADHD brain…) and I’m loving these.
I’m glad that you’re enjoying my content! It means a lot to me as I really do try to bring something unique to the table when creating these videos. I always like starting conversations between others and it’s really cool when people say they even talk about these topics to their friends. I am often told the same, that what I say is a reach, even when providing a load of information. One last bit of info I didn’t mention in this video, in firestorm shockwave, in a cloning facility within Arasaka tower, a tissue sample marked as Alt Cunningham can be found alongside Yorinobus.
I planned on bringing it up in this video since it’s likely Cybergenerations will be paralleled because of Black Dog. Didn’t want to bring up non-canon for comparison since some people might hound me hahaha
@@ramon4184 The next corporate war is going to become a distraction to Netwatch. Probably leaving an opening for the AIs beyond the blackwall to cross and invade.
Absolutely dope content, well done. Obviously spent a lot of time researching the source material and happy to get your unique perspective which adds depth to how I look at the game, Thank You!
Thank you brotha I really appreciate you saying that. It means a lot to me to get support on the content I love creating. I always try to create unique conversation going with my viewers and the cyberpunk community. I hope you continue to enjoy and that maybe sometime you can hop in a Livestream and we can talk!
It seems really possible that she's alive and out there and if Johnny did get brought back and killed or cot again would be a shame but would be great to really know what really happened
Following the lines where Silverhand hid away Alt's body What if Johnny's altered memories are so if they captured him, they would never know where her body was stored?
Seems likely as Silverhands engram seems to not know anything about several of those involved in the Arasaka raid despite the fact that he should've at least known information from the raid itself. It would definitely make sense for Angel to mess with his engram to avoid information of her being revealed easily as well.
Interesting thoughts, and I don’t doubt Pondsmith will be answering the exact questions asked in this video. Personally, I wonder if Spider’s dispersing of Alt across the net hasn’t created a possibly infinite number of Alts which act more or less on the original’s impulses based on the quality and quantity of data they contain, possibly becoming, in effect, Alt’s descendants down the line. Lots of unique storytelling opportunities down that route.
Unless it is a different person running around with a blackhand, there are shards in game that mention a guy that fits his description who is alive and seems to be still doing what he is good at.
I have a short that partly covers it but doing a full length video covering everything is near the top of my list. There’s a lot of information and Pondsmith himself has slowly teased specifics so I’d like to go over everything!
@@Kaimariification morgan blackhand is alive lol the reason why we don't actually see him during the arasaka bombing is beaucse TWO REASONS first reason is johnny's POV of what happened is totally inaccurate and the second reason is mike pondsmith specifically told CDPR to stay away from him beaucse pondsmith has bigger plans for blackhand
I have a feeling a parallel is being ran between Sourcebook V3.0 and 2077s story. A massive AI Invasion is definitely in store for Orion. After seeing what happened in Arasaka, I don't think its going to be very exciting for anyone hooked in the net to be fried by a million merged AI that gained access to the entirety of Mikoshi and more.
The A.I problem gonna play a major role in the cyberpunk universe from now on for sure. But i still think that, there is gonna happen another Corpo War and they will totally miss the point because of it and the A.I will strike when nobody else is expecting.
Totally agree. There’s a lot of things that mirror V3.0 just with better writing and more reasonable to the cyberpunk universe. There’s a lot set up for the future and likelyhood is that the AI use the fifth corporate war to divert attention from themselves. Especially if they can get net watch off their asses for a moment.
Hello LayBack i really feel AI rogue or Shackled are a little underused I really enjoyed your theory on the 5th Corporate War and AI infiltration fascinating...Phantom Liberty and blue eyes
I gotta say it really does look like the real V, Johnny and Alt are all dead from a continuity of experience standpoint which arguably is what separates who a person is from the next. Seems the versions we interact with are imitations emulating what the original hosts were like. A more accurate description of this conundrum would be the Teletransportation paradox where the question is posed 'if a person is broken down and copied on a molecular level, is the copy still the original person?'. I would say if you were able to assign a unique ID to every atom in existence, are the exact same IDs used to rebuild the person on the other side of teleportation? If the answer is no, then what comes out the other end is a different person altogether with the original person seizing to exist from a continuity of experience standpoint. That moment in between being copied and the copy being started up is where the original host stays forever. This is a very somber thought. Death remains undefeated even in a hyper-technological society it is unavoidable.
Johnny lies about his real life, and chances are V is just losing his shit and is a cyber psycho with ptsd, Jonny dies in arasaka tower and black hand makes it out of arasaka I don’t see how V is still alive in the new dlc coming out
Interesting. As a Mass Effect fan this helped me tremendously to articulate a concept. Since the situation is a decent parallel to the difference between Legion and the Geth Construct depending on our choices to which we find inside the Dreadnought.
@@LayedBackGamers Johnny and Alt's relationship is quite toxic and Rogue deep down still harbors feelings for Johnny despite him cheating on her. It's a stretch opinion for me, but hear me out David, Lucy and Rebecca's relationship is basically a better, lighter, non-toxic version of what Johnny, Alt and Rogue had.
@@primecoconut4204 Id say I agree in a way. There’s a lot of parallels between Silverhand and Vs and David’s stories. Just watching Edgerunners gives me dejavu because of it. I’m glad I have the same perspective as you!
You pulled the rogue ai out of nowhere about 1/3rd of the way in. The ai is implied to be the original soulkiller alt developed that was then applied to her. There's no reason to assume some other ai came along and consumed her data and started posing as her. That would require a series of coincidences never mentioned in the sourcebooks or video game.
I know there was an icon of Soulkiller created. Referring to Alt as mother. I thought however Murphy destroyed this program in 2023 as the sourcebook states she wiped all traces of soulkiller from the network.
Aw fuck finally someone brings it up! I've been thinking that Soulkiller was wearing Alt's face/engram for years! Dude, the wavelengths. Spider destroyed all of the *program* after she used it on Kei Arasaka. Not the AI. Which was freed into the net from the Arasaka mainframe... because it convinced everyone it was Alt...
So basically replicants are a thing, just like bladerunner given biotechnica was able to clone a human let alone design a human, I wonder if V will be able to create a clone if he can’t survive in his current body, I believe Alt escaped into the net when Johnny disconnected Alt he didn’t realize she was still alive, and she screams to him from inside and he couldn’t hear it. I believe a rogue AI is faking Alts appearance for a darker motive to use the engrams inside soul killer for its own agenda
I havent seen anyone talking about it. But there is a hole in the wall marked by a "Johnny" drawing. Inside the hole is a creep and childish drawings of the entire plot of phantom liberty. This area is accessable from the first moment you step into dog town. So its not like they drew them as they happened . This implies these kids are psychic. Perhaps an akira reference. But you can find the very same "Johnny" drawings all over D-town, always next to or around some kind of loot. But this drawing if johnny doesnt look anything like our johnny. It has short hair. No sunglasses. And his mechanical arm is never colored in though it is on the same side as Johnny. My roomate and i have been thinking. And the theory we've landed on. Is that these psychic children have forseen the future far far beyond the events of the game and they are trying to provide aid to the real Johnny who is definitely in night city somewhere. But refuses to make himself known. But you cannot hide from clairvoyant children.
Maybe Silverhands engram is just a copy, a trap for arasaka made by alt, carrier for something nasty for their future plans? Who knows? Loving these vids!
Isn't it confirmed though that the ai alt helped Netwatch create the black wall? It is very much possible that if alt is alive in any kind of way, she's most probably in contact with that ai version of her. It would make for a very interesting interaction between the 2.
Yes it is, and in the Cybergeneration sourcebook (retconned material) the Alt AI attempted to transfer herself to a Clone, but found out she was simply copying herself over. So there then existed two Alt Cunninghams. Thus video is a bit older so not as well put together as my recent ones. But I talk more in depth on this topic in my abandoned timelines and Legend of Silverhand videos.
In one of the different conversations with alt Johnny apologizes to her and she says yes. It seems whoever this is whether it’s alt or a rouge AI why do you think they still have some feelings towards silverhand
In the end - the “real Johnny” isn’t real since it’s just a copy of a soul killed dying Johnny - the “real alt” (Angel) wouldn’t be the real alt since she would be a traumatized or event worse partitioned(split) form of the original alt - the Ai Johnny after the reaper ending goes with engram Alt which is not Alt, not even the soul killed alt - and Alt takes Johnny with him which is not even the real soul killed Johnny but just a modified and unique version of it probably containing memories of two different people Morgan’s and Johnny’s - the real Johnny died when he was shot by Smasher - the real alt died when Jonny had a furious attack and killed the only guy knowing that alt was trapped in cyberspace (she was halfway soul killed) So nobody is the real one, not even V technically they’re all dead, plus the events on the game could be different from the ones in the tabletop game and books, I personally like to think that every Johnny’s mistakes in narrating his story it’s just the script management, him dying in such a gruesome way even it’s selfless and heroic kinda defines the imposing energy of the character. Hey that’s a smasher rival a guy that destroyed Arasaka almost alone.
remember what we see is a cut up version of the books and lore to make keua character look like some hero it's clearly not alt thats. bk up by in game dailog alls we konw phantom liberty is something about the nusa president
You are assuming that Cyberpunk 2077 and the the Cyberpunk tabletop Lore are the same. We know in the Cyberpunk tabletop lore that the events that happened there as it's in the books. We don't know if CDPR is making that cannon as part of their game. Because if they kept it exactly the same we are missing a lot of information/events from the game. We already know there are inconsistencies between the tabletop vs the game already. I believe the tabletop to bne a lot more sophisticated and complex comparted to a narratively driven game that CDPR put together. Don't get me wrong these are awesome theories, I think they are just great fun to consider.
What if the reason that chick didnt looks exactly like alt is cause shes clone also shes called angel what some people believe we turn into after we die
No, it's her. Even the in-game database said being behind the blackwall 50 years severely altered her consciousness and the "last weak link to her past" was JS. the VB's would never been able to summon her otherwise. She even said in the ending "I was a netrunner. I understood how to survive. I cannot speak for you. Beyond the Blackwell dangers lurk, it is no sanctuary." The jury is still out but it's clear a soulkilled AI is a perfect copy of that person but isn't that person's original, continued consciousness.
@@LayedBackGamers I think your Part right. The Part where she could be a Clone and in someway has Alt's Memories but that is all. But is she Alt not really sure if She is or Not. The missing pieces is The what Happens between 2045 to 2077 if there is going to be a Second Book. I don't get how they would get Johnny if he was Cut into and Died. You see how mess up Jackie was when they got ahold of him if you take him to Your ripper and in part Johnny better version of that.
2:53 so this sounds an awful lot like a AI version of the Borg actually no that’s wrong as well maybe something like the thing from the film of the same name, a life form that mergers with other code consuming it becoming something new each time something stronger with each generation?
What if alt used Johnny and v as a convenient trap we know alt is apart of the AI we know ai can take any form and are represented as red in the net in the ending where you play as johnny talkin to v that in the time v was connected to the net they learned that alts idea of freeing the engrams was absorbing them into itself and we know it was only using an image familiar to them so with all that said when v and Johnny stumbled across it in they're search to remove the biochip what if the ai realised that the way to make itself more powerful would be the destruction of the system holding the engrams allowing it to absorb them weather johnny or v goes with alt it has already accomplished its goal with the absorption of all the other engrams
@@ainzooalgown9963 I messaged the game company about the events that happened between Angel getting Johnnys body and 2077 game events and they told me they can’t talk about the secrets yet
Johnny is on a relic chip that writes over a living body with the stored engram. Once that transfer process is complete the relic should be empty or non functional. To me it makes no sense that Johnny is restored into a new body to go on the run with Alt. And the relic is later in the posision of Arasaka and still contains Johnnys engram. Your engram is a huge data / privacy weakness. Your enemy can make a copy of you, can interrogate you and learn your every secret, they can use your engram to find out where you are most likely to hide. Once you are restored you would just destroy the relic or make sure it was empty - if it was not already empty or destroyed by the end of the transfer.
Definitely. There's so much to be resolved that even if we had the 3 DLCs planned, there would still be way too much story and resolutions to be covered. Orion is going to be insane though I am telling you now. There's openings for an AI invasion, 5th corporate war, and more.
Its bit of a stretch. This is a story about sacrifice and of dead people trying to save the living. V was never supposed to survive, the temperance ending is the most appropriate ending as its the right thing to do for the story to have any meaning, its a cautionary tale related to technological overreach that has destroyed humanity rather than improve their lives. Alt Cunningham explains that the Blackwall is not a sanctuary but just a promise of survival, she chose to leave some imitation of her and suggests V to do the same.
You use terms "real Alt" and "consciousness" wrong. Soulkiller does not copy/transfer/recreate consciousness. It is stated multiple times. Real Alt died in Arasaka tower, as the AI stated. Even her engram, copied into cloned body, will never be real Alt, because real Alt is dead.
Well I just mean real Alt as in her original engram technically. Consciousness only refers to the awareness of oneself and the world around it. Hence why the AI claims it doesn’t have Alts, since it doesn’t see itself as Alt. That’s all I mean by that. Technically no matter how you look at the philosophy of soulkiller, it’s true Alt wouldn’t technically be the original. Since a portion of her was stolen.
I put my whole script into the RUclips subtitle generator that’s supposed to automatically match them. I am disappointed as always in RUclips. Going to try to figure out a good way to get subtitles in! Thank you for letting me know choom
Well she originally was in the TTRPG at least she had a living clone, thats now on a divergent timeline but so far the official timeline is still following the divergent timeline regarding her story as to what has been revealed, so there is no reason to believe she is not. I mean sure, Angel could be a massive Red herring but its still heavily hinted that Angel is Alt and we have no idea yet where Angel is in 2077 or what she did with Johnys body in 2045. The fact that Spider Murphy and Morgan Blackhand are also both hinted at still being active in 2077 means there is a whole load more to this story than we know.
A random rogue AI using her image after finding a portion of Alt seems like a bit of a stretch. More likely, it would that the Alt AI is one (or multiple) portions of digitized Alt that have gained sentience in the net, hence the attraction to Johnny when he and V pop through the wall, but still being a bit detached and distant towards them. Its is clearly acting on the original Alt's memories and expriences (or portions thereof), but not entirely her. Inserting a random rogue AI into this is unnecessary. Now, whether a clone of the original is still alive somewhere or not, could be.
I primarily bring up the Rogue AI, because it is common place beyond the blackwall for AIs to merge as it's extremely beneficial to them. Especially since the ALT AI claims Her and V/Silverhand will merge beyond the blackwall. Orginally, I was under the belief that this program was the Soulkiller AI that Alt had managed to create that thought of her as a mother pretty much in 2013, but all traces of SK were destroyed by Murphy so I had decided to scrape that idea.
Going Live Today at 12 PST!
Lemme know down below what you all think about this speculation. Do you agree or have anything to add? I hope you all enjoyed and I’m looking forward to seeing your ideas.
Im ready bro already got the game qued up my books etc ready as well as chips those are a necessity 🤣 essential choom products
I agree with most of what you said in the video. My only discrepancy would be the fact that I believe is not any rogue AI nor that Alt's engram was divided in several pieces, only a couple similar to Jhonny and Jackie, who are not fully copied natural engrams. I believe at the least are 2-3 pieces. the one we meet in Blackwatch (the one that got "stuck" in Arasaka when the original Alt died. It would explain its obsession to destroy Arasaka and merge. Saul mentions she kills everyone not just militia or bots during the final mission, that's vengeance), which has the memories but doesn't share "feelings",etc. The clone/engram takeover from Red (Angel) which has the emotions/feelings but not all the memories, and the one Murphy was/is trying to recover that would have "the main soul" of Alt.
Regarding the possible clon with Jhonny, that could open a very thin and far fetched theory of V having maybe a far blood relationship with Jhonny or Alt (?) (if she managed to do anything with the engram before Arasaka got it, she concieved a baby that would have her DNA, Jhonny's and the foreign body Jhonny's engram would be using at the time), which would explain the synch with the engram (which is mentioned by Hellman and Viktor I think).
@@yenyerkun That is a very interesting idea. Especially the part with some sort of connection between V and Silverhand. We know that you need a compatible body for the relic to ideally merge, which is why Saburo used Yorinobu in the devil ending. We don't know everything about the engram so it might just be possible that its ideal in that situation but can just rewrite the brain either way. V being related to Silverhand would be insane but its Cyberpunk for a reason.
Honestly I don’t know what to think. The A.I, or Alt, could have lied to Johnny because, it’s Johnny. She has misgivings towards him. Plus, when Johnny apologises to her in the Rogue Ending, she has a sort of human reaction. If it is Alt, she lied. She mentioned her imprisonment in Arasaka Tower. Somehow even if she wanted to take upon Alt’s appearance, I doubt an A.I with access to infinite amounts of data would choose Alt’s image. It would say “I’m not Alt but I’ll help you as long as you serve my purpose”. She denies who she was because she’s been a cybernetic ghost for half a century. She talks like a supposed robot because of the computerised data that she has collected. Also I don’t think an AI with no connection to Johnny wouldn’t jump at a chance of consuming both V and Johnny, considering how they are famed for being unfettered. The AIs are known for their obsession with knowledge and control, the Peralez side job explains that well. Alt is no more because she is a different being. And one last thing to consider that makes this theory sort of logical is what Alt said - “I was a net runner”. Netrunner’s are corporeal before they start prowling the net. An A.I is a different being in itself.
The last part is not totally correct. There is a very big misconception about A.Is in cyberpunk universe. A big portion of them are NOT A.Is as we know, like Delamain for instance. A lot of the A.Is behind the Blackwall are actually Netrunners who got killed by the soulkiller ICE(Arasaka used the Soulkiller on the net). Not only is this mentioned on the game(When Johnny is in the RD back in 2013 talking to the media if i'm not wrong) but also, Mike Pondsmith itself already have said that in a podcast. So, for an A.I, it's not completely impossible nor uncommon been a netrunner before getting to become an A.I.
@@evandroescutatrap131 Thank you for clearing this up, I didn’t know that. I assumed A.Is were computer personalities who’ve evolved and become independent. Always thought Alt was a unique A.I. Kinda hope that one day it’ll be clarified whether Alt and Johnny are alive.
Wait... I missed that--exactly when does Alt respond when Johnny apologizes in the Rogue Ending? He just says sorry and plugs himself into Mikoshi with that red cable. There's no mention of Johnny's apology once they enter Mikoshi and you have to make the body-swap choice...
@@Fyre0 After logging into Cyberspace via Nix’s network, Johnny has the option of saying “Wait, one other thing”, and then apologise to Alt.
I like this theory
I'm glad you're using the sourcebook and not only Johnny Silverhand's retelling from the game ^^
I just hope that we have more insight to this in the expansion pack
At this point we all want more of everything in Phatom Liberty lol I just want more Garry the prophet
Thought so too. Though i am not really sure about the chain of custody for Johnny's engram. Someone asked me 'what if the part where Johnny gets shot by Smasher and Soulkilled before Saburo is when he's recaptured after Angel reimbodies him, just altered by Arasaka to seem like it was back in 2023?'.
While i find it very unlikely myself, the only valid source according to the sourcebooks for an engram of him would be Spider Murphy. Hell, the wily b-word has Kei Arasaka on a drive somewhere, so it's not that far-fetched anymore.
I assumed that the part where Saburo personally oversees Johnny's soulkilling was false. That Johnny was killed, and rekilled in Saka tower. It was Morgan Blackhand that Saburo soulkilled, Johnny just took that part of his story for himself.
It could also be, that -this- "Johnny Silverhand" is actually just the recompiled fragments of Morgan and Johnny. Hellman admitted to putting this "Johnny Silverhand" in the engram because it was a "low value" engram.
I'm so glad there is someone still talking about cyberpunk with actual passion and not just to shill off update vids or shit on the game again and again.
great work choom
Thanks choom. I really appreciate the kind comment, it really does mean a lot to me. I see too many update videos, especially clickbait ones. Gotta have Panam all over the thumbnails too. I try to always bring something unique to the community and start conversation so I hope you continue to enjoy and that I get to see ya in the comments or a live stream again!
The potential for future games, movies, tv shows and animes (all set in this universe) is infinity. I feel like we are barely scraping the surface of it all.
The chapter in Red when Alt is severed from her Cyberdeck is titled “Angel Heaven”..
Plus Angel looks too much like Alt to be a mere coincidence especially with her recognizing Johnny's body
This is amazing. You are really hitting a lot of critical points that are often overlooked. I believe your point on the AI being a random one from the other side of the Black wall is critical to Netwatch's real mission, and Mr. Blue eyes. The component about Biotechnica having already made self aware clones utilizing virtual constructs was critical to piecing all this together. Mr. Blue eyes is a rep of Night Corp, Night Corp being the foundation Richard Night started, and if you dig into the lore of this company, you find very little, other than huge projects that are for the betterment of the city. This is directly in opposition of all other megacorps, who have the sole motivation of pure profit. My theory is that Nicght Corp, Mr. Blue eyes, and potentially any individual wearing the special signet ring is an AI that made it across the black wall into our world. If not a rouge AI, an AI from Night Corp, in the physical world to see the foundations mission through. The point of Biotechnica clones finally closed that open loop I had in this theory of how the Black Wall AI's / Night Corp AI's get access to our physical world. Destroying Mikoshi would serve as a distraction of the real objective of this "Alt" AI, which is to take the engrams stored there to use in proliferation of AI's into Night City. AI's while insanely smart, would lack the mannerisms, and understanding of the physical world that engrams from the physical world would have innate understanding of. I believe that this AI proliferation is somehow connected to FF:06:B5. Rant over, happy to talk more!
Remember as well, night corp isn't really within 2077 but in Silverhands 2023 flashback, they are straight outside a massive window clear as day, clearly the focus of said scenery. They as well were going to be exposed for using AI to basically brainwash people of importance. Wouldn't doubt that Nightcorp is behind Mr Blue Eyes, and that even Blue Eyes is the AI Brainwasher itself. I mean, he's one of the only people out in the open world that we can't touch and gets us to go on some huge heist.
Also the character model for mr blue eyes is the same one for blackhand. So who knows, maybe they got blackhands engram when he fought smasher on top of arasaka tower or maybe it’s something much deeper. Even in the delamain missions there’s one car that knows about v’s situation. Almost like the ai who calls you before talking to Jefferson. The blue eyes may indicate that they’re being controlled by ai. Its deep down the rabbit hole but still something to look into.
Plus on top of that mr blue eyes seems to know about v’s situation aswell.. even the s.c.s.m. « Brendan » knew about v’s situation which points to the ai once again. How do they know?
Your videos are thorough and easy to listen to. Something I wanted to mention on one video regarding Johnnie's memories being altered, there's actually not just credence for this but even evidence in the game itself source book or not.
Something so small I didn't see it until just recently and I have played the game atleast a dozen times now.
In the very first johnny mission we are seeing the last time Johnny attacked arasaka. In that flashback on the way there Rogue is talking to Thompson on comms! His name even appears on subtitles. But given the next flashback, if you ask Johnny "whatever happened to Thompson" he claims he has no idea and never saw him again.
Thank you I really appreciate the kind words and support. It always means a lot to me and makes me happy creating these videos. This is a very interesting point and now that you mention it, I get a vague remembrance of it from my first playthrough. Thank you for bringing this to my attention it adds a lot more validity from 2077 itself. I'm gonna look out for this in my live stream!
The interesting point of the theory, the fragments, coincides with what we as V witness with Del. Killing Del results in the other personalities navigating into the material world. Alternatively, merging his fraction creates something new, ominous. That Del always rubs me as a new super ai, ready to both return to the old net, and to reach further beyond the new net. And we can always wonder if V-Alt depending on if V is an established runner, exists beyond the black wall in much the same relation to Rache or Alt.
Either way, great theory and video, man!
An engram is digital data, and data can be copied. So there's no reason it has to be the case that Angel got some of the fragments and the Alt-AI got the others, it's entirely possible they were both created from Alt's complete engram.
Excellent video and points! I definitely can believe the info on both real and fake Alt, man that puts alot of things in perspective. Keep up the good work!
Can you imagine choom this whole theroy was very eye opening see i look into detail but damn that was small dialogue i literally forgot about!
@@JohnnySilverwrench frankly I can't look at 'Alt' the same way again and honestly it brings alot of her mannerisms and actions to make sense. Look at Engram Johnny for example, he has been stuck in Mikoshi for 50 years but he is very much human based on actions, awareness and pain. With Alt we don't get that, and the crap about wanting to absorb the inhabitants of Mikoshi and either V or Johnny should've gave it away. But I wrote it off, now, I can't. Huh, gives me an idea for a fanfic to try my hand at. Definitely 'Alt' is looking very suspect to me and I will be doing a deep dive into Red.
Yo I gotta get this off my chest when you mentioned Voodoo Boys. Bro…talk about the worst gang ever. They show in that one part of the story and this it. You’d think they’d swore revenge on you for killing their leader and a big member of their pack but but no. They sorta just disappear. Hopefully the DLC dives into them more.
Well when the AI Alt first appeared from the blackwall, she wiped most if not all of their Netrunners in the process. So a good chunk of their man power and leadership gets destroyed, especially if we kill their leader. Which is why they are so sparse in the open world afterward. Though it is definitely lame they don't have an agenda against you.
Well, the real Alt didn't exactly "die" in 2013. She was braindead after using Soulkiller to "upload" her mind to the net.
Well technically she wasn’t even brain dead after being disconnected and trapped in the network. Silverhand actually claims there was a “feeble” pulse. Though of course she wasn’t there in the body.
From what I can tell, this Alt isn't the real one. Just one AI that found a few pieces of her original engram, and decided to use it as a pretty convincing disguise. From what I can tell, the only goals it has are controlling anything it can, and possibly even trying to get into Mikoshi to merge all the engrams (and the information from all those various entire lived lives) into itself, metaphorically feasting on the souls of the dead, then probably moving on to take over more and more systems around the world.
I hope we get some clarification on what's going on with her.
If she meant to decieve, she would not straight up tell that she is not Alt, nor would prowl V and Johnny with creepy revelations. She would act as a missed girlfriend, jump onto Johnny and sugarcoat her deal.
Rache, Alt and Spider, if they were 3 of the best runners ever, outwitting Arasaka just might have been child's play to them. So, the ending where Johnny and Alt sail off into the blackwall together, was that just a corrupted, modified endgram and a wild a.i. with Alt data?
These points are amazing, thank you for making this! I wasn’t a fan of the ‘verse until I began playing the game in the summer (friends suggested it as personal interests of mine crossed over into what the ‘verse is all about) and when I first came upon the Pacifica thread of Act 2, I had thought about the bits I’d read in the lore you referenced. Once realizing Silverhand was an unreliable narrator, I tracked down what I could about his team etc just to know more about the characters I’d be interacting with in Act 3, during Silverhand’s quests. I pointed out similarities to a friend about Angel/Alt, as well as the same theory regarding Spider Murphy casting fragments of Alt into the net only to later possibly be placed within a body (Angel) and they thought I was “reaching” lmao. I’m linking them this video now. Definitely giving your other ones a watch because this is the kind of rabbithole I dig myself into with video game lore (the joys of ADHD brain…) and I’m loving these.
I’m glad that you’re enjoying my content! It means a lot to me as I really do try to bring something unique to the table when creating these videos. I always like starting conversations between others and it’s really cool when people say they even talk about these topics to their friends. I am often told the same, that what I say is a reach, even when providing a load of information. One last bit of info I didn’t mention in this video, in firestorm shockwave, in a cloning facility within Arasaka tower, a tissue sample marked as Alt Cunningham can be found alongside Yorinobus.
I'm not sure if I'm the only person who remembers it, but Cybergeneration covered that Alt had a living clone, as did Johnny.
I planned on bringing it up in this video since it’s likely Cybergenerations will be paralleled because of Black Dog. Didn’t want to bring up non-canon for comparison since some people might hound me hahaha
Cyberpunk 2077 and cyberpunk red go way much more deeper than everyone thinks. So much that it's spine chilling when you look deeper
They really do. There's so much to uncover and a lot of the corps are much worse than one could imagine.
@@LayedBackGamers with alt being alive and everything. This makes me wonder how netwatch plays into this
@@ramon4184 The next corporate war is going to become a distraction to Netwatch. Probably leaving an opening for the AIs beyond the blackwall to cross and invade.
Absolutely dope content, well done. Obviously spent a lot of time researching the source material and happy to get your unique perspective which adds depth to how I look at the game, Thank You!
Thank you brotha I really appreciate you saying that. It means a lot to me to get support on the content I love creating. I always try to create unique conversation going with my viewers and the cyberpunk community. I hope you continue to enjoy and that maybe sometime you can hop in a Livestream and we can talk!
It seems really possible that she's alive and out there and if Johnny did get brought back and killed or cot again would be a shame but would be great to really know what really happened
Following the lines where Silverhand hid away Alt's body
What if Johnny's altered memories are so if they captured him, they would never know where her body was stored?
Seems likely as Silverhands engram seems to not know anything about several of those involved in the Arasaka raid despite the fact that he should've at least known information from the raid itself. It would definitely make sense for Angel to mess with his engram to avoid information of her being revealed easily as well.
Interesting thoughts, and I don’t doubt Pondsmith will be answering the exact questions asked in this video. Personally, I wonder if Spider’s dispersing of Alt across the net hasn’t created a possibly infinite number of Alts which act more or less on the original’s impulses based on the quality and quantity of data they contain, possibly becoming, in effect, Alt’s descendants down the line. Lots of unique storytelling opportunities down that route.
Whatever the outcome, the amount of lore, and world building Cyberpunk as an IP manages is astonishing. Deep as fuck choom.
u should do a video on what exactly happens to Morgan BlackHand if he died or somehow got away after fighting smasher on the Arasaka towers
Unless it is a different person running around with a blackhand, there are shards in game that mention a guy that fits his description who is alive and seems to be still doing what he is good at.
I have a short that partly covers it but doing a full length video covering everything is near the top of my list. There’s a lot of information and Pondsmith himself has slowly teased specifics so I’d like to go over everything!
@@Kaimariification morgan blackhand is alive lol the reason why we don't actually see him during the arasaka bombing is beaucse TWO REASONS first reason is johnny's POV of what happened is totally inaccurate and the second reason is mike pondsmith specifically told CDPR to stay away from him beaucse pondsmith has bigger plans for blackhand
Wasn't that Idris Elba as Blackhand in the Phantom Liberty trailer?
@@dquinn9482 no he plays a character called solomon reed
Why no one bring up Alt working for King Toa or was Johnny lying to
This is why the Devil ending is the best. All knowing AI that also has the head of arasaka's engram. Nah that's too messed up.
I have a feeling a parallel is being ran between Sourcebook V3.0 and 2077s story. A massive AI Invasion is definitely in store for Orion. After seeing what happened in Arasaka, I don't think its going to be very exciting for anyone hooked in the net to be fried by a million merged AI that gained access to the entirety of Mikoshi and more.
Angel being Alt is like a 3rd eye opening on my lore knowledge of Cyberpunk
I enjoy watch videos like this because all do is run around the map killing and collecting, stuff like this never enters my mind.
I can't blame you. Spent most of my first run through with my brain turned off.
The A.I problem gonna play a major role in the cyberpunk universe from now on for sure. But i still think that, there is gonna happen another Corpo War and they will totally miss the point because of it and the A.I will strike when nobody else is expecting.
Totally agree. There’s a lot of things that mirror V3.0 just with better writing and more reasonable to the cyberpunk universe. There’s a lot set up for the future and likelyhood is that the AI use the fifth corporate war to divert attention from themselves. Especially if they can get net watch off their asses for a moment.
Alt IS souldkiller3 with Alt cunninghams engram. She was going to put herself back but Johnny interrupted the process in 2013.
Hello LayBack i really feel AI rogue or Shackled are a little underused I really enjoyed your theory on the 5th Corporate War and AI infiltration fascinating...Phantom Liberty and blue eyes
I gotta say it really does look like the real V, Johnny and Alt are all dead from a continuity of experience standpoint which arguably is what separates who a person is from the next. Seems the versions we interact with are imitations emulating what the original hosts were like. A more accurate description of this conundrum would be the Teletransportation paradox where the question is posed 'if a person is broken down and copied on a molecular level, is the copy still the original person?'. I would say if you were able to assign a unique ID to every atom in existence, are the exact same IDs used to rebuild the person on the other side of teleportation? If the answer is no, then what comes out the other end is a different person altogether with the original person seizing to exist from a continuity of experience standpoint. That moment in between being copied and the copy being started up is where the original host stays forever. This is a very somber thought. Death remains undefeated even in a hyper-technological society it is unavoidable.
Johnny lies about his real life, and chances are V is just losing his shit and is a cyber psycho with ptsd, Jonny dies in arasaka tower and black hand makes it out of arasaka I don’t see how V is still alive in the new dlc coming out
Interesting.
As a Mass Effect fan this helped me tremendously to articulate a concept. Since the situation is a decent parallel to the difference between Legion and the Geth Construct depending on our choices to which we find inside the Dreadnought.
“Does this unit have a soul”
@@EternalNightingale yyup, people thought I'm insane when I mumbled that line several times in the bus stop while listening to this video
I found her grave in the memorial area in the hills
Silverhands there too! I wonder how close he is to Alt though. Never looked.
@@LayedBackGamers Johnny and Alt's relationship is quite toxic and Rogue deep down still harbors feelings for Johnny despite him cheating on her.
It's a stretch opinion for me, but hear me out David, Lucy and Rebecca's relationship is basically a better, lighter, non-toxic version of what Johnny, Alt and Rogue had.
@@primecoconut4204 Id say I agree in a way. There’s a lot of parallels between Silverhand and Vs and David’s stories. Just watching Edgerunners gives me dejavu because of it. I’m glad I have the same perspective as you!
I just got to this point in the game last night, nice timing
I just had a gut feeling!
You pulled the rogue ai out of nowhere about 1/3rd of the way in. The ai is implied to be the original soulkiller alt developed that was then applied to her. There's no reason to assume some other ai came along and consumed her data and started posing as her. That would require a series of coincidences never mentioned in the sourcebooks or video game.
I know there was an icon of Soulkiller created. Referring to Alt as mother. I thought however Murphy destroyed this program in 2023 as the sourcebook states she wiped all traces of soulkiller from the network.
Aw fuck finally someone brings it up! I've been thinking that Soulkiller was wearing Alt's face/engram for years! Dude, the wavelengths.
Spider destroyed all of the *program* after she used it on Kei Arasaka. Not the AI. Which was freed into the net from the Arasaka mainframe... because it convinced everyone it was Alt...
I always thought that was what was left of alt after johhny unplugged her
So basically replicants are a thing, just like bladerunner given biotechnica was able to clone a human let alone design a human, I wonder if V will be able to create a clone if he can’t survive in his current body, I believe Alt escaped into the net when Johnny disconnected Alt he didn’t realize she was still alive, and she screams to him from inside and he couldn’t hear it. I believe a rogue AI is faking Alts appearance for a darker motive to use the engrams inside soul killer for its own agenda
I havent seen anyone talking about it. But there is a hole in the wall marked by a "Johnny" drawing. Inside the hole is a creep and childish drawings of the entire plot of phantom liberty. This area is accessable from the first moment you step into dog town. So its not like they drew them as they happened . This implies these kids are psychic. Perhaps an akira reference. But you can find the very same "Johnny" drawings all over D-town, always next to or around some kind of loot. But this drawing if johnny doesnt look anything like our johnny. It has short hair. No sunglasses. And his mechanical arm is never colored in though it is on the same side as Johnny. My roomate and i have been thinking. And the theory we've landed on. Is that these psychic children have forseen the future far far beyond the events of the game and they are trying to provide aid to the real Johnny who is definitely in night city somewhere. But refuses to make himself known. But you cannot hide from clairvoyant children.
Maybe Silverhands engram is just a copy, a trap for arasaka made by alt, carrier for something nasty for their future plans? Who knows?
Loving these vids!
Isn't it confirmed though that the ai alt helped Netwatch create the black wall? It is very much possible that if alt is alive in any kind of way, she's most probably in contact with that ai version of her. It would make for a very interesting interaction between the 2.
Yes it is, and in the Cybergeneration sourcebook (retconned material) the Alt AI attempted to transfer herself to a Clone, but found out she was simply copying herself over. So there then existed two Alt Cunninghams.
Thus video is a bit older so not as well put together as my recent ones. But I talk more in depth on this topic in my abandoned timelines and Legend of Silverhand videos.
@@LayedBackGamers missed out on those videos. Gotta check em out.
In one of the different conversations with alt Johnny apologizes to her and she says yes. It seems whoever this is whether it’s alt or a rouge AI why do you think they still have some feelings towards silverhand
In the end
- the “real Johnny” isn’t real since it’s just a copy of a soul killed dying Johnny
- the “real alt” (Angel) wouldn’t be the real alt since she would be a traumatized or event worse partitioned(split) form of the original alt
- the Ai Johnny after the reaper ending goes with engram Alt which is not Alt, not even the soul killed alt
- and Alt takes Johnny with him which is not even the real soul killed Johnny but just a modified and unique version of it probably containing memories of two different people Morgan’s and Johnny’s
- the real Johnny died when he was shot by Smasher
- the real alt died when Jonny had a furious attack and killed the only guy knowing that alt was trapped in cyberspace (she was halfway soul killed)
So nobody is the real one, not even V technically they’re all dead, plus the events on the game could be different from the ones in the tabletop game and books, I personally like to think that every Johnny’s mistakes in narrating his story it’s just the script management, him dying in such a gruesome way even it’s selfless and heroic kinda defines the imposing energy of the character.
Hey that’s a smasher rival a guy that destroyed Arasaka almost alone.
remember what we see is a cut up version of the books and lore to make keua character look like some hero it's clearly not alt thats. bk up by in game dailog alls we konw phantom liberty is something about the nusa president
Excellent video, thank you 👍👍👍
You are assuming that Cyberpunk 2077 and the the Cyberpunk tabletop Lore are the same. We know in the Cyberpunk tabletop lore that the events that happened there as it's in the books. We don't know if CDPR is making that cannon as part of their game. Because if they kept it exactly the same we are missing a lot of information/events from the game. We already know there are inconsistencies between the tabletop vs the game already. I believe the tabletop to bne a lot more sophisticated and complex comparted to a narratively driven game that CDPR put together. Don't get me wrong these are awesome theories, I think they are just great fun to consider.
Do copies of personalities get along or do they go for a I-am-the-one death match.
What if the reason that chick didnt looks exactly like alt is cause shes clone also shes called angel what some people believe we turn into after we die
No, it's her. Even the in-game database said being behind the blackwall 50 years severely altered her consciousness and the "last weak link to her past" was JS. the VB's would never been able to summon her otherwise. She even said in the ending "I was a netrunner. I understood how to survive. I cannot speak for you. Beyond the Blackwell dangers lurk, it is no sanctuary." The jury is still out but it's clear a soulkilled AI is a perfect copy of that person but isn't that person's original, continued consciousness.
So what do you think Angel is?
@@LayedBackGamers I think your Part right. The Part where she could be a Clone and in someway has Alt's Memories but that is all. But is she Alt not really sure if She is or Not. The missing pieces is The what Happens between 2045 to 2077 if there is going to be a Second Book. I don't get how they would get Johnny if he was Cut into and Died. You see how mess up Jackie was when they got ahold of him if you take him to Your ripper and in part Johnny better version of that.
2:53 so this sounds an awful lot like a AI version of the Borg actually no that’s wrong as well maybe something like the thing from the film of the same name, a life form that mergers with other code consuming it becoming something new each time something stronger with each generation?
What if alt used Johnny and v as a convenient trap we know alt is apart of the AI we know ai can take any form and are represented as red in the net in the ending where you play as johnny talkin to v that in the time v was connected to the net they learned that alts idea of freeing the engrams was absorbing them into itself and we know it was only using an image familiar to them so with all that said when v and Johnny stumbled across it in they're search to remove the biochip what if the ai realised that the way to make itself more powerful would be the destruction of the system holding the engrams allowing it to absorb them weather johnny or v goes with alt it has already accomplished its goal with the absorption of all the other engrams
Johnny does say at the thinks hes just a copy of the Ingram At the beginning of the game
Bro they replied to me and said that secret is not ready to be reveled yet I shit you not!
Who did?
@@ainzooalgown9963 I messaged the game company about the events that happened between Angel getting Johnnys body and 2077 game events and they told me they can’t talk about the secrets yet
Gun goes hard asf bro
Bro I’ve always thought this 😨
Alt Cuningham is very beautiful.
Johnny is on a relic chip that writes over a living body with the stored engram. Once that transfer process is complete the relic should be empty or non functional. To me it makes no sense that Johnny is restored into a new body to go on the run with Alt. And the relic is later in the posision of Arasaka and still contains Johnnys engram. Your engram is a huge data / privacy weakness. Your enemy can make a copy of you, can interrogate you and learn your every secret, they can use your engram to find out where you are most likely to hide. Once you are restored you would just destroy the relic or make sure it was empty - if it was not already empty or destroyed by the end of the transfer.
Pretty wild speculation, tbh I think this one is a bit of a stretch- you wrote a hole story out of nowhere
Looking for the live stream now
I think they’re leaving certain things open for future games. I doubt this will be resolved in 2077.
Definitely. There's so much to be resolved that even if we had the 3 DLCs planned, there would still be way too much story and resolutions to be covered. Orion is going to be insane though I am telling you now. There's openings for an AI invasion, 5th corporate war, and more.
Its bit of a stretch. This is a story about sacrifice and of dead people trying to save the living. V was never supposed to survive, the temperance ending is the most appropriate ending as its the right thing to do for the story to have any meaning, its a cautionary tale related to technological overreach that has destroyed humanity rather than improve their lives. Alt Cunningham explains that the Blackwall is not a sanctuary but just a promise of survival, she chose to leave some imitation of her and suggests V to do the same.
You use terms "real Alt" and "consciousness" wrong. Soulkiller does not copy/transfer/recreate consciousness. It is stated multiple times. Real Alt died in Arasaka tower, as the AI stated. Even her engram, copied into cloned body, will never be real Alt, because real Alt is dead.
Well I just mean real Alt as in her original engram technically. Consciousness only refers to the awareness of oneself and the world around it. Hence why the AI claims it doesn’t have Alts, since it doesn’t see itself as Alt. That’s all I mean by that. Technically no matter how you look at the philosophy of soulkiller, it’s true Alt wouldn’t technically be the original. Since a portion of her was stolen.
Since this ai isn't alt it's werid to me that johnny interacts with it as if she was
Very interesting.
You're marked as my top commenter since you've received so many hearts. Didn't even know that was a thing!
@@LayedBackGamers I didn't either. I should give someone else a turn. 🤔
@@TheJonesChannel11 Its unfair hogging all the glory!
@@LayedBackGamers Heh
But is the AI Alt a threat to the real Alt?
Link?
Spoiler Alert, Arisaka Will Clone V on Cyberpunk 2099.
Game is very good on ps5
Shut up. I love it. Maybe...?
👍
There's more effort in these theories than the game itself, you guys give CDPR way too much credit. Take things at face value
Would you consider adding subtitles to your videos? Sometimes your pronunciation is very layed back (😂) and hard to understand.
I put my whole script into the RUclips subtitle generator that’s supposed to automatically match them. I am disappointed as always in RUclips. Going to try to figure out a good way to get subtitles in! Thank you for letting me know choom
Bruh she ded
Err, no she’s not.
Very insightful! Who do you think Angel is?
Well she originally was in the TTRPG at least she had a living clone, thats now on a divergent timeline but so far the official timeline is still following the divergent timeline regarding her story as to what has been revealed, so there is no reason to believe she is not. I mean sure, Angel could be a massive Red herring but its still heavily hinted that Angel is Alt and we have no idea yet where Angel is in 2077 or what she did with Johnys body in 2045. The fact that Spider Murphy and Morgan Blackhand are also both hinted at still being active in 2077 means there is a whole load more to this story than we know.
@@loxley75 You're someone who gets it.
Fake af
A random rogue AI using her image after finding a portion of Alt seems like a bit of a stretch.
More likely, it would that the Alt AI is one (or multiple) portions of digitized Alt that have gained sentience in the net, hence the attraction to Johnny when he and V pop through the wall, but still being a bit detached and distant towards them. Its is clearly acting on the original Alt's memories and expriences (or portions thereof), but not entirely her. Inserting a random rogue AI into this is unnecessary.
Now, whether a clone of the original is still alive somewhere or not, could be.
I primarily bring up the Rogue AI, because it is common place beyond the blackwall for AIs to merge as it's extremely beneficial to them. Especially since the ALT AI claims Her and V/Silverhand will merge beyond the blackwall. Orginally, I was under the belief that this program was the Soulkiller AI that Alt had managed to create that thought of her as a mother pretty much in 2013, but all traces of SK were destroyed by Murphy so I had decided to scrape that idea.
Lmfaoo this channel is reaching happy ends never exist in Night City
I mean I literally state in the video that the likelyhood is that they’re both brought back just to end up losing one another again. ?