Rather than test with full rolls, I shoot the same image on a full roll, then develop 6" pieces from the roll for different times or whatever parameter I'm testing. I can get a half dozen tests from one roll.
Excellent advice. One more thing to consider is that if you use different cameras the shutter speeds aren't always accurate and can vary quite a bit. If you use different light meters (internal or external) for any of these it is another variable. Once all of these factors are considered you can "calibrate" your equipment. Thanks for all of the great videos.
I am ever so boring and rarely pull or push a film, I generally only do it if I don’t have a choice. So my optimum ISO is very nearly always box speed. In truth to me it’s more about the aesthetics of an image and how you develop for the desired tonal range than trying for the absolutely perfect ISO. As a,ways though a fascinating video and it’s always useful to have the knowledge and if I do start bulk loading at any time I might just give it a try out of interest, but it’s not at the top of my photographic priorities. May I wish you and your family the very best of New Years David and thank you for all the effort you put in to your videos, they are always informative and interesting.
I'm a bit confused by how you described the ISO test and I want to make sure I get the point. You suggest that we change the ISO rating on the camera for each frame of the film as we're shooting, correct? But we can only develop this one roll in one way. If we shot multiple rolls of the same film, the same way, having each frame correspond to a different ISO rating, we could then develop these rolls differently. So we're doing two separate comparisons in the end. First, we would compare frames within the same roll to one another for exposure based on the ISO rating for each frame to see which is optimal to our eye. Second, we would compare the same frame between rolls that have been developed differently to see which one is "optimal" to our eye. In the end you may end up with a couple different combinations of ISO and development that you like best and can pick and choose from to get the look you like based on what you're shooting and the look you're going for. Did I get that right? Thanks.
So for a test roll, we're talking about only one roll. So what happens is that if you have some 100 ISO film and you expose it in third-stop increments from 50 to 200, and then shoot the balance of the roll at 100, you'll have a series of test shots up front. That allows you to see how the film behaves at different exposure settings with all the frames having been developed the exact same way. The goal is to have those test frames for comparison. The test will either confirm that the rated ISO is the best with your film, developing process, and specific water chemistry, or it will show that a different ISO is better with those same developing variables. So it's a test, a one-off, when you get a new type of film. Does that help clarify?
Yes, it absolutely does. Would you recommend doing such a test again if you were shooting the same film with a different camera than the one you did your first test roll on?
Not really. Testing how the film responds is more important if you move and are developing your own film at home, to see how the chemistry of your water and the process you use for developing film affects the outcome. It can also be helpful with color films if you want to see if a settings change can affect color richness or mute colors in a way that's pleasing for the work you want to do.
Awesome video again. Only comment is to outline the process in two stages. To rate your ISO you only compare the shadow (low density) areas on the test film strip and to set your development time/temperatures for your specific water you look at the highlights (high density areas and film frame numbers). It is a two step process: 1) You rate your development times to achieve dense highlights and desired contrast with you water supply. 2) Develop the bracketed film at the times obtained in (1) and rate the ISO based on properly exposed shadows and overall gradation.
No. First you experiment with development times to find the right dev time to achieve full density in highlights with your water source. (Further dev time past optimal will not add density to the shadows, only the highlights and of course contrast). Once you have identified your dev times, you develop a strip of different camera exposures using that time; and pick the right camera exposure/ISO by judging the shadow density on the negative. Put it simply; highlights that are too thin or to dense need a change in dev time. Shadows that are too thin or too dense need a change in exposure time (assuming you have set your dev time correctly first). Easy peachy.
In a way yes for dev time. Dev time is set so highlight detail is below Dmax. Exposure time is set so shadow detail is above Dmin. Your individual scanner matters as well to be complete. My scanner is a Coolscan 9000, so I am playing with a full 4.0 range (basically almost everything on the negative). But the process to set dev time and exposure is pretty straightforward without getting too technical. I just look at the negative for the most part.
Quick question: Do you find that your exposure/development settings can be used with different formats? Or do you test any given film stock for 35mm, re-test for 120 and then retest again for large format?
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Rather than test with full rolls, I shoot the same image on a full roll, then develop 6" pieces from the roll for different times or whatever parameter I'm testing. I can get a half dozen tests from one roll.
That's definitely a better way to do it.
Excellent advice. One more thing to consider is that if you use different cameras the shutter speeds aren't always accurate and can vary quite a bit. If you use different light meters (internal or external) for any of these it is another variable. Once all of these factors are considered you can "calibrate" your equipment. Thanks for all of the great videos.
Thank you!
I am ever so boring and rarely pull or push a film, I generally only do it if I don’t have a choice. So my optimum ISO is very nearly always box speed. In truth to me it’s more about the aesthetics of an image and how you develop for the desired tonal range than trying for the absolutely perfect ISO. As a,ways though a fascinating video and it’s always useful to have the knowledge and if I do start bulk loading at any time I might just give it a try out of interest, but it’s not at the top of my photographic priorities. May I wish you and your family the very best of New Years David and thank you for all the effort you put in to your videos, they are always informative and interesting.
Thank you, Mark, and have a good New Year's, too. How is it 2018 already?
I'm a bit confused by how you described the ISO test and I want to make sure I get the point. You suggest that we change the ISO rating on the camera for each frame of the film as we're shooting, correct? But we can only develop this one roll in one way. If we shot multiple rolls of the same film, the same way, having each frame correspond to a different ISO rating, we could then develop these rolls differently.
So we're doing two separate comparisons in the end. First, we would compare frames within the same roll to one another for exposure based on the ISO rating for each frame to see which is optimal to our eye. Second, we would compare the same frame between rolls that have been developed differently to see which one is "optimal" to our eye.
In the end you may end up with a couple different combinations of ISO and development that you like best and can pick and choose from to get the look you like based on what you're shooting and the look you're going for. Did I get that right? Thanks.
So for a test roll, we're talking about only one roll. So what happens is that if you have some 100 ISO film and you expose it in third-stop increments from 50 to 200, and then shoot the balance of the roll at 100, you'll have a series of test shots up front. That allows you to see how the film behaves at different exposure settings with all the frames having been developed the exact same way.
The goal is to have those test frames for comparison. The test will either confirm that the rated ISO is the best with your film, developing process, and specific water chemistry, or it will show that a different ISO is better with those same developing variables.
So it's a test, a one-off, when you get a new type of film. Does that help clarify?
Yes, it absolutely does. Would you recommend doing such a test again if you were shooting the same film with a different camera than the one you did your first test roll on?
Not really. Testing how the film responds is more important if you move and are developing your own film at home, to see how the chemistry of your water and the process you use for developing film affects the outcome. It can also be helpful with color films if you want to see if a settings change can affect color richness or mute colors in a way that's pleasing for the work you want to do.
Awesome video again. Only comment is to outline the process in two stages. To rate your ISO you only compare the shadow (low density) areas on the test film strip and to set your development time/temperatures for your specific water you look at the highlights (high density areas and film frame numbers).
It is a two step process: 1) You rate your development times to achieve dense highlights and desired contrast with you water supply. 2) Develop the bracketed film at the times obtained in (1) and rate the ISO based on properly exposed shadows and overall gradation.
Are you trying to say that pick the image that has just the right amount of shadow and highlight detail out of all the test shots?
No. First you experiment with development times to find the right dev time to achieve full density in highlights with your water source. (Further dev time past optimal will not add density to the shadows, only the highlights and of course contrast). Once you have identified your dev times, you develop a strip of different camera exposures using that time; and pick the right camera exposure/ISO by judging the shadow density on the negative.
Put it simply; highlights that are too thin or to dense need a change in dev time. Shadows that are too thin or too dense need a change in exposure time (assuming you have set your dev time correctly first). Easy peachy.
Oh interesting. So you're testing against D-max?
+Eos Sail Now I get it. Your first message was written in a way that I couldn't make heads or tails out of it. :)
In a way yes for dev time. Dev time is set so highlight detail is below Dmax. Exposure time is set so shadow detail is above Dmin. Your individual scanner matters as well to be complete. My scanner is a Coolscan 9000, so I am playing with a full 4.0 range (basically almost everything on the negative).
But the process to set dev time and exposure is pretty straightforward without getting too technical. I just look at the negative for the most part.
Thanks for this video. One Quesions.... In spite your are using Tascam-Recorders there is still recognizable noise in your audio. Why?
Because it was 105 degrees outside and the AC in the other room was noisy.
Quick question: Do you find that your exposure/development settings can be used with different formats? Or do you test any given film stock for 35mm, re-test for 120 and then retest again for large format?
I haven't noticed differences in development times between formats.
You haven’t a clue on how to test to rate a film speed………
Feel free to explain it.