I have a question that many others might have, so I'll ask it here: with most visual objects, an afterimage of the colour opposite to that of the kasina will develop; this is due to receptors on the retina getting 'tired' and is physiologically unavoidable. I've heard people recommend using these afterimages as objects, but I've also heard people, including you, advise to wait for a "purely mental" image and take it as the object, instead. This image is fleeting at first, but can be made much more durable with some simple tricks. Most people overlook the fact that there are two kinds, and in some cases they seem unaware that these are distinct phenomena. So, my questions is: in your mind, is it better, worse, or perhaps just as good, to use the afterimage? For people who have aphantasia or are unable to generate a 'mental image' for some other reason, this is especially important. Thanks!
Hello, thank you for the question. When we practice kasina we are effectively practicing with a stable memory of what we have previously seen with the eye. We are not practicing with the current imprint on the retina, as that will fade and change with time. Thus, if you are practicing the red kasina, you would practice with a stable red object both with eyes open and closed. In all my experience teaching, I have never met anyone who cannot generate a mental image, but some people do find it easier than others, and some people need to wait until they have already developed a stable access concentration with another object before they can hold a kasina with any kind of stability.
Many thanks for your videos Beth! One question: is Kasina meditation complementary to anapanasati? Do you see value in practicing the two alongside one another? I have practiced anapanasati for a few years now ~1.5 hours each day, but have yet to get to access concentration. Wondered if kasina meditation may help somehow, and if so, if there was a recommended way of doing this (e.g. sharpen up concentration with kasina practice prior to ananpanasati, etc.). FWIW I'm quite happy to keep patiently waiting for progress towards access concentration, but if there was a way to accelerate somehow of course I'd be very happy to know about that! ;-)
Hello, thank you for your question. In essence, kasina meditation and mindfulness of breathing are very similar. In both cases we are training to be with a single subtle object for a long time. There is not too much benefit in working with two objects, as it slows down the process of stabilising our perception on a single object. The benefit would be to perhaps ward off boredom with a single object, though ultimately by changing objects you would be slowing yourself down. There may be some reasons that your progress is slower than you would like, though the issue is unlikely to be the meditation object. If you would like to talk through your practice with me then please feel free to book an appointment through my website.
in order to practise the kasinas, does one needs to first master samatha jhanas to a satisfactory level? or is it possible to jump into kasina practise from the outset?
Kasina can be a good entry level object for beginners who find it easy to hold a mental image. For those who struggle to hold a mental image it is easier to start with a different samatha object (like anapana) first.
Wow, you just taught me I have aphantasia too - no wonder why visualization meditation has always been so frustrating for me. I'm also very interested in learning whether it's possible to develop a nimitta given that it seems that a learning sign (from which the nimitta develops), is itself a mental image that I cannot seem to produce by repeating a word such as "earth, earth...", "blue, blue,..." etc
@@BrenttBlakkan actually I don't have aphantasia but I know a couple of people that do. I started getting visual nimitta after doing mahasi sayadaw method (satipatthana/noting) for a month or two daily. After a while I just kind of got into a groove and was able to get to a state where I was both quite relaxed but also very focused, moving from one meditation object to the next effortlessly seeing myself letting go of one and grasping the other. When this happens I will start to see light on the eye, waves of color. It is very different than visualization or imagining. It is more like if you stare at a bright light and close your eyes. All of the research I've done suggests that someone with aphantasia could experience this. Leigh Brassington says it's possible. I think it has to do with disabling inhibition circuits in the brain and you are actually seeing your neurons fire through the optic nerve or something (mostly guessing). I tried to convince my friend with aphantasia it was possible but he didn't want to believe it. There is one person i know online who claims to not be able to visualize anything in their mind but also has seen light while meditating. I think TRYING to see a nimitta will likely prevent it from happening. The trying will prevent the relaxed concentration/focus. When it has happened during my meditation, if I try to focus on the light show it will soon disappear. Good luck, keep practicing.
@@starshiptexas 😊Thank you for your thoughtful reply and sharing this with me, I really appreciate it. I've had varying levels of hot-yellow and purple globs morph through my visual field during samadhi - and sometimes these can be quite bright / covering much of the field. It's always felt to me that these were very closely rooted to the eye - they remind me of burn-in images when your eye gets fatigued at looking at the same thing for a long time. However, the learning sign has never developed for me (which would be a disc similar to my kasina which is currently a blue circle). Notably, I think, whenever I close my eyes after looking at a kasina for a long time, the color of the disc is always complimentary to the actual disc's color, which suggests I'm still only seeing retinal burn in. Anyway, I am inspired to continue my efforts to relax and open attentively. Thanks again, may you know true peace 🥰
Not to cross contaminate but I heard Hillside Hermitage teacher translate kasina as "totality" splaining that it interrupts our identification process with I/mine/me and into the elements that comprise the totality. Thanks for the video on this neglected meditation subject. What textual sources should we track down? Also please consider 32 parts run down for us.
Hello Avinash, Thank you for your question. Just expanding the kasina alone is not enough to lead you into the formless meditations, but after expanding and developing the kasina up to the fourth jhana, you can then enter the formless jhanas by removing the perception of the expanded kasina. Removing the expanded kasina of the fourth jhana will give rise to the base of boundless space, which we sometimes call the fifth jhana. I will put some videos up in the future to give more details on the formless jhanas. With metta, Beth
@@bethupton1286 Thanks so much for your kind reply🙏🏻, how we know we are in which Jhana using kasina? I mean its clear with breath or body scan by assessing piti, sukha and equanimity, is it same for Kasina method? All jhana appears while expanding light? Or sometime after we switch to body scan after access concentration?
@@bethupton1286 Hello Beth, thank you for this video and clarifications. One thing I may ask, in terms of time allocated to this practice, how much to start in order to see improvements?
@@avinash261 Hello Avinash, we can check which jhana we are in by checking the jhana factors when we emerge from the jhana. I will make some videos in the future on this topic. In the meantime, please feel free to book an appointment with me through my website to discuss this topic further. with metta, Beth
@@karldrogba4909 This will be different for each person. It could be hours, days, weeks, or months, depending on the individual's natural ability with this specific practice.
Namo Buddhaya/\. Alas i had been stayed unaswered(( Im theravada upasaka (alone yogi, from russia) but (and) i m suffering depression and anxiety (losing myself in life). I practice AnApanaSsati (method by bhikkhu intagaw sayadaw) but i cant to free myself from these destroying thoughts\feeling of my heart\mind
I went through similar problems, and I started out practicing primarily Anapannasati for several years. I found that it helped me reduce depression significantly, if I could meditate every day. I would try focusing on my breath, but when I had distracting thoughts, I would note the nature of the thoughts. After consistent practice, I came to understand, consciously, the numerous sorts of thoughts that distract me from awareness of my breath, because they are so repetitive, and often unsupported any real background. Over time, your consciousness of the distracting thoughts leads you to examine them and trust them less, and you slowly begin to cast off some of the thoughts that are torturing you. As you practice, in theory, you reach a point where those thoughts begin to subside, allowing you to maintain your awareness on your meditation object for longer periods. I haven't yet increased my concentration significantly, but I HAVE noticed a pronounced improvement in my mood when I am meditating regularly. And I have a better awareness of the thoughts that routinely distract me, and I recognize that some of those distracting thoughts are not reliable or defensible. They are often self-critical, or based in anxious thinking. Awareness takes away the depressive power of those thoughts. It becomes easier to recognize the thoughts when they arise outside meditation, and to dismiss them, because you've discovered, by repeatedly noticing those thoughts in meditation, that they are not worthy of your awareness.
These instructions are so clear and accessible. Thank you, Beth.
I have a question that many others might have, so I'll ask it here: with most visual objects, an afterimage of the colour opposite to that of the kasina will develop; this is due to receptors on the retina getting 'tired' and is physiologically unavoidable.
I've heard people recommend using these afterimages as objects, but I've also heard people, including you, advise to wait for a "purely mental" image and take it as the object, instead. This image is fleeting at first, but can be made much more durable with some simple tricks. Most people overlook the fact that there are two kinds, and in some cases they seem unaware that these are distinct phenomena.
So, my questions is: in your mind, is it better, worse, or perhaps just as good, to use the afterimage? For people who have aphantasia or are unable to generate a 'mental image' for some other reason, this is especially important.
Thanks!
Hello, thank you for the question. When we practice kasina we are effectively practicing with a stable memory of what we have previously seen with the eye. We are not practicing with the current imprint on the retina, as that will fade and change with time. Thus, if you are practicing the red kasina, you would practice with a stable red object both with eyes open and closed. In all my experience teaching, I have never met anyone who cannot generate a mental image, but some people do find it easier than others, and some people need to wait until they have already developed a stable access concentration with another object before they can hold a kasina with any kind of stability.
Many thanks for your videos Beth! One question: is Kasina meditation complementary to anapanasati? Do you see value in practicing the two alongside one another? I have practiced anapanasati for a few years now ~1.5 hours each day, but have yet to get to access concentration. Wondered if kasina meditation may help somehow, and if so, if there was a recommended way of doing this (e.g. sharpen up concentration with kasina practice prior to ananpanasati, etc.). FWIW I'm quite happy to keep patiently waiting for progress towards access concentration, but if there was a way to accelerate somehow of course I'd be very happy to know about that! ;-)
Hello, thank you for your question. In essence, kasina meditation and mindfulness of breathing are very similar. In both cases we are training to be with a single subtle object for a long time. There is not too much benefit in working with two objects, as it slows down the process of stabilising our perception on a single object. The benefit would be to perhaps ward off boredom with a single object, though ultimately by changing objects you would be slowing yourself down. There may be some reasons that your progress is slower than you would like, though the issue is unlikely to be the meditation object. If you would like to talk through your practice with me then please feel free to book an appointment through my website.
11 Kasinas Madam!!! Consciousness Kasina
What would be the difference between this and what in yoga is called trataka?
in order to practise the kasinas, does one needs to first master samatha jhanas to a satisfactory level? or is it possible to jump into kasina practise from the outset?
Kasina can be a good entry level object for beginners who find it easy to hold a mental image. For those who struggle to hold a mental image it is easier to start with a different samatha object (like anapana) first.
Do you know for sure if someone with aphantasia can develop this?
Wow, you just taught me I have aphantasia too - no wonder why visualization meditation has always been so frustrating for me. I'm also very interested in learning whether it's possible to develop a nimitta given that it seems that a learning sign (from which the nimitta develops), is itself a mental image that I cannot seem to produce by repeating a word such as "earth, earth...", "blue, blue,..." etc
@@BrenttBlakkan actually I don't have aphantasia but I know a couple of people that do. I started getting visual nimitta after doing mahasi sayadaw method (satipatthana/noting) for a month or two daily. After a while I just kind of got into a groove and was able to get to a state where I was both quite relaxed but also very focused, moving from one meditation object to the next effortlessly seeing myself letting go of one and grasping the other. When this happens I will start to see light on the eye, waves of color. It is very different than visualization or imagining. It is more like if you stare at a bright light and close your eyes. All of the research I've done suggests that someone with aphantasia could experience this. Leigh Brassington says it's possible. I think it has to do with disabling inhibition circuits in the brain and you are actually seeing your neurons fire through the optic nerve or something (mostly guessing). I tried to convince my friend with aphantasia it was possible but he didn't want to believe it. There is one person i know online who claims to not be able to visualize anything in their mind but also has seen light while meditating. I think TRYING to see a nimitta will likely prevent it from happening. The trying will prevent the relaxed concentration/focus. When it has happened during my meditation, if I try to focus on the light show it will soon disappear. Good luck, keep practicing.
@@starshiptexas 😊Thank you for your thoughtful reply and sharing this with me, I really appreciate it. I've had varying levels of hot-yellow and purple globs morph through my visual field during samadhi - and sometimes these can be quite bright / covering much of the field. It's always felt to me that these were very closely rooted to the eye - they remind me of burn-in images when your eye gets fatigued at looking at the same thing for a long time. However, the learning sign has never developed for me (which would be a disc similar to my kasina which is currently a blue circle). Notably, I think, whenever I close my eyes after looking at a kasina for a long time, the color of the disc is always complimentary to the actual disc's color, which suggests I'm still only seeing retinal burn in. Anyway, I am inspired to continue my efforts to relax and open attentively. Thanks again, may you know true peace 🥰
The meditation retreat in Joshua tree is always full. So disappointed. Beth, thank you for all your videos.
Not to cross contaminate but I heard Hillside Hermitage teacher translate kasina as "totality" splaining that it interrupts our identification process with I/mine/me and into the elements that comprise the totality. Thanks for the video on this neglected meditation subject. What textual sources should we track down? Also please consider 32 parts run down for us.
visuddimaga
What about Kasina by MindPlace?
You make me want to switch off this computer and seek my cushion!
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Great video, expanding part is get into the formless meditation, right?
Hello Avinash, Thank you for your question. Just expanding the kasina alone is not enough to lead you into the formless meditations, but after expanding and developing the kasina up to the fourth jhana, you can then enter the formless jhanas by removing the perception of the expanded kasina. Removing the expanded kasina of the fourth jhana will give rise to the base of boundless space, which we sometimes call the fifth jhana. I will put some videos up in the future to give more details on the formless jhanas. With metta, Beth
@@bethupton1286 Thanks so much for your kind reply🙏🏻, how we know we are in which Jhana using kasina? I mean its clear with breath or body scan by assessing piti, sukha and equanimity, is it same for Kasina method? All jhana appears while expanding light? Or sometime after we switch to body scan after access concentration?
@@bethupton1286 Hello Beth, thank you for this video and clarifications. One thing I may ask, in terms of time allocated to this practice, how much to start in order to see improvements?
@@avinash261 Hello Avinash, we can check which jhana we are in by checking the jhana factors when we emerge from the jhana. I will make some videos in the future on this topic. In the meantime, please feel free to book an appointment with me through my website to discuss this topic further. with metta, Beth
@@karldrogba4909 This will be different for each person. It could be hours, days, weeks, or months, depending on the individual's natural ability with this specific practice.
Transcription for this video is available at:
samathavipassanabhavana.wordpress.com/2024/01/17/developing-the-light-kasina/
Namo Buddhaya/\. Alas i had been stayed unaswered(( Im theravada upasaka (alone yogi, from russia) but (and) i m suffering depression and anxiety (losing myself in life). I practice AnApanaSsati (method by bhikkhu intagaw sayadaw) but i cant to free myself from these destroying thoughts\feeling of my heart\mind
I went through similar problems, and I started out practicing primarily Anapannasati for several years. I found that it helped me reduce depression significantly, if I could meditate every day. I would try focusing on my breath, but when I had distracting thoughts, I would note the nature of the thoughts. After consistent practice, I came to understand, consciously, the numerous sorts of thoughts that distract me from awareness of my breath, because they are so repetitive, and often unsupported any real background.
Over time, your consciousness of the distracting thoughts leads you to examine them and trust them less, and you slowly begin to cast off some of the thoughts that are torturing you. As you practice, in theory, you reach a point where those thoughts begin to subside, allowing you to maintain your awareness on your meditation object for longer periods. I haven't yet increased my concentration significantly, but I HAVE noticed a pronounced improvement in my mood when I am meditating regularly. And I have a better awareness of the thoughts that routinely distract me, and I recognize that some of those distracting thoughts are not reliable or defensible. They are often self-critical, or based in anxious thinking. Awareness takes away the depressive power of those thoughts. It becomes easier to recognize the thoughts when they arise outside meditation, and to dismiss them, because you've discovered, by repeatedly noticing those thoughts in meditation, that they are not worthy of your awareness.