Leica M11 and Sony A7RV, Same Sensor?
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- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2024
- Ok maybe not that cut and dry, but it's pretty conclusive that the Leica M11 and the Sony A7RV look nearly identical when using the same lens. This is why the experience matters so much - because the "look" is nominally different at best.
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Am I missing something or did the video just cut off at about 8 min?
Same here.
same for me
My computer is currently with Apple getting repaired from a dead logic board. I created this video on my iPad, which was very difficult honestly. I exported and directly uploaded, and had no idea this dead space was there. That was the end of the video, there’s just dead space at the end.
@@davidherring gotcha bro just checking. a video ive been wanting to see so i appreciate you making it! Time to get a 35 cron now :D
@@davidherring Not completely dead space - there is another clip at 13:05. I was waiting for an Easter egg but it's all good.
Great video.I'd be keen to see a follow-up of this experiment, say to compare portraits and wide open shots.
I will do this at some point for sure!
Dave, was this last Saturday? I was in Monterey (from Florida) then. Having both cameras, I appreciate the comparison you've made here. I brought my M11 with a 35 for the trip.
Yep this was last Saturday! Small world!
Picked up the M11 after I got a few value M mount lenses. I find I enjoy the M11 much more when making photos, but the lack of IBIS and the manual focus make me slightly less happy with the photos when I take them into post. Is it enough for me to not use the M11 for daily photo taking? Not really, and it's nice having people be curious about the M11. But for anything I feel I need the best quality, I don't think twice and grab the A7RV (and often just bring them both since the M11 is so small).
I love the M experience and shoot it 99% of the time. We do what we love, and I think it’s awesome to see the diversity in that with the community surrounding this channel.
Love this video because it is inspiring in it's realness. Art is complicated but it is also not complicated but it depends but the most important thing is to just do it. Thanks Dave
Appreciate the kind words Jack!
I think at this point it just comes down to user experience and what you want/need out of your camera
Agreed!
I personally see the difference. The dynamic range on the Leica is a good bit better and the color casting between the two is a bit more magenta on the Leica and a bit more green on the Sony. I do like the Leica shots better for almost everything except the landscape stuff near the end, but they are really close. The differences between the photos are so small and easy to edit towards or away in similarity with just a few sliders. Great video, but as just an FYI im seeing a lot of black space at the end of the video with no audio. Could just be me, but I figured id let you know.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, had an issue with the export I didn't realize until it was already live.
Definitely small differences, filter arrays, processing, etc. I think the x-trans in Fuji look quite different for some things for example. But that in general the lens construction and it's coatings is mostly what we think of when it comes to the look of a photo but sensor technology at this point is not super varied either when you think about older CCD sensors or ever-rumored organic sensors or curved sensors it could change a lot eventually, but definitely at this point in time it's very small.
Thanks for sharing!
as a a7rv owner and long time sony user, a7rv is a fantastic camera, flawless, if you after a result, a7rv will never let you down, but if you consider photography as an experience and result as a whole, hmmm, it is debatable. I love Leica more(still photography), because the experience is very personal, and I use my leica for fun to please myself.
I agree. The A7RV is the most flawless camera ever made. But I don’t get excited shooting it. I shoot my M11 90% of the time because of the experience.
I always wanted to do this video. The sony appears to have better algorithmic dynamic range, where the Sony is more un bias between shadow and highlights where the M11 has less recoverability in the highlights and more in the shadows.
It was recommended above to try this with a wide lens at an open aperture and THEN I’d see a difference. May do that today just for fun and to see.
Awesome!!!
Thanks bro!
Far as I have heard, the Sony sensors are not aligned correctly for M lenses with image quality suffering compared to mounting the same M lens on an M or SL. Have you noticed any such thing?
Depends on the M lens. This is more an issue the older and wider a lens gets. So many are just fine on the Sony until you get one that isn't.
Nope haven’t noticed this at all. The photos in this video I think put this point to rest.
All the shots from about 7:40 and out look identical to me.
I was surprised to admit so too.
V similar
What I notice the most is the green sony tint.
Same!
You ever shot the m11 monochrome? Such a buttery image reproducer. Upgrade your m11 for m11 mono keep the Sony for color when you crave it. Whole new world
If I only did bw I would do this.
I’ve got the M11M. Best experience ever. Don’t even miss the colour it’s just too good.
Haha amazing. When I feel this way I throw some bw film into my M6 and satisfy the beast. Maybe one day I’ll grab that M11M haha.
@@davidherring low light capabilities are mind blowing. Next level
I have the M11 and the low light performance I already so good that I don’t feel like I’m missing out on the monochrome. Especially when shooting BW the noise is very filmic which I prefer.
I wish Leica would use Kodak sensors with Kodak film presets like Fuji
That would be epic,
Interesting. Both good. I like the Leica colors better, but seen as single images, who knows?
The auto white balance on Leica is a bit more magenta, and Sony auto white balance looked warmer and a bit more green. I wouldn’t say either are right and wrong but 100% preference. Thanks for sharing!
@@davidherring agree!
I like the Colors from the M10-R more. But after Lightroom it can be everything what you want
Color in-camera is becoming more and more irrelevant.
leica color wins, hands down. but your point is 100%- i have the 28mm elmarit in the bag no matter what camera, penf, xpro, a7. a leica lens to me = reliable separation at both ends. all other lenses i get a little nervous going full open or closed
Thanks for sharing!
The diffrence I see is that the camears judge white balance a little diffrent. In most of the photos the A7RV looks warmer but for the most part no one will distinguish any difrence. The Biggist diffrence every one will see is the extra $6000 hole the Leica will leave in your pocket.
Definitely. The white balance is completely different between the two.
도움이 되었습니다
Thanks for the comment!
It becomes very clear to me that the software strategy to interpret the signals from the sensor makes a huge difference. Sometimes, the Leica shows a magenta tint and the Sony a greenish look, sometimes less so and sometimes they are pretty similar. Can I tell, which I like more - no I can‘t. But I can say that Leica shooting is more fun than Canon, Fuji, Nikon, Olympus or Panasonic shooting (at least to me, haven‘t had a Sony in my hands ever)
Definitely. The software side is a major part of the image.
The Leica look is from the CCD sensor in the M8/9. The Leica sensor is a Sony sensor.
No experience with an M8 or M9 but I know people rave About the look.
I’ve been told it’s the same sensor and also been told it’s not. Regardless, Leica learned the color lesson well from Kodak with those first generation CCD. Coming from the film world to the digital makes it pretty easy to tell the difference. To me the Leica looks more accurate but that is a subjective opinion. Some people believe Fuji film was more accurate than Kodak, yet others preferred Ilford. Really cool video.
Thanks for sharing! Yeah, I’ve heard the same.
Yes, Sony tends to be greener
Definitely.
the amount of green cast in the sony is insane.
Yeah it’s quite green! But Leica is also quite magenta, so you see both extremes I feel.
That purple cast
in the M11....
Definitely pushed magenta in the white balance.
Do you feel you can entirely dial it out? Playing with M11 raws I felt it's a deeper character trait than just the tint slider...@@davidherring
Yeah white balance can be 100% changed in post.
As expected the skin tone on Leica is pleasing compared to Sony counterpart.
Agreed!
The M11 really wants that magenta, doesn't it? Sony is a touch to green and warm sometimes, but that's not new. The Sony looks to have the harder contrast, at least deeper blacks. Could I tell the difference between this and say the a7CII if you matched the white balance? No. 😂
Yeah it loves that magenta! If the white balance was matched I doubt anyone would know the difference.
@@davidherring 100%. I could not tell.
I wonder if it's a UV sensitivity thing like the M8. Maybe you could cut a lot of the magenta before it hits the sensor with a filter?
Or just shift a bit to green in the White Balance setting is probably easier. 😂
This is first time I liked Sony colours more then Leica
🤯
Oh yes there's no problem adapting a 50mm Leica lens, but the problems can start to show when using wider lenses at wider apertures because the light exiting the rear element doesn't travel directly to the sensor, which is fine for film, but a big problem for normal digital sensors that need digital rear lens elements that send light in a straight line. I think the digital Leica sensors are adapted to take this scattered angular light because their system of M mount lenses is shared across film and digital cameras.
I may try this with the 28 Summicron at f/2.
I know you said don't over think it, but I can't help it 😂 It's a shame it has to be so complicated! I'm now having to mentally plan for issues with my A7cii's limitations of it's shutter being only mechanical rear curtain or full electric. I think it's important not to ruin the amazing smooth bokeh from these lenses, by shooting over 1/1000th wide open, but it is worth the hassle having saved thousands not buying a Leica body. May start prioritising electric shutter.
For kicks and giggles, I wonder about the A7RV with a Sony lens compared to the Leica... I noted in your M10 / A7RV comparison, the Sony kinda sucked eggs... why do you think the M11 and A7RV are so close? Have you compared the M10 to the M11?
I think they have the same sensor, but the tech processing it is different. Got a video coming soon that you’ll enjoy. Stay tuned!
The difference is minimal, not abysmal, and can be tweaked with software. Mind that the Leica sensor glass seems to be thinner (Quoted: Leica uses much thinner, like 0.5 mm. So Sony lenses are optimized for 2 mm while Leica needs much thinner).and the lens does not behave exactly equally in the corners. The shooting experience I guess can be equally good on one or another. It is a matter of getting used to yours. The glamour though.... ah, this costs money :). I must admit I desire Leica from time to time, see one of these videos and cure myself till.... next video.
Thanks for sharing!
I recently moved from an A7RV to an M11 and the sensors are pretty close. Personally the M11 has less features, and thus is easier to use and a joy to take pictures. The Sony, ergonomically for me, is terrible, my pinky doesn't have a place add in the complicated menus it never got much time out. I will say, if it's inclement weather, i.e. backpacking or hiking, and/or you have fast moving subjects, kids or pets, the weather sealing and AF is handy. Otherwise, I'm liking the M11.
I love the M11 experience. I rarely shoot the A7RV. It’s mostly my video b-camera.
SOOC I prefer the Leica.
Sony is ok too but personally prefer the Leica rendering.
I prefer Leica as well!
the only difference I'm seeing is white balance diff.
Same.
The sensor is the same, but the glass and micro lenses are different…also, Leica will fix certain lens issues in camera with processing
It’s the same lens on each camera, and I don’t see any lens issues on the Sony.
Ok so the intro is at 13:07 of this upload, and 0:00 starts about 15-20 secs into where it cuts off at the end. Sorry, this threw me off.
My MacBook is getting repaired by Apple, so I edited this video on the iPad and did not realize it exported weird.
@@davidherring good to know I thought you were testing us lol.
All the Sony images are green
Yeah the Sony AWB was definitely warmer/greener than the Leica.
I see colors mostly :D leica is nicer :D
I prefer Leica as well.
I feel like Leica looks better on my screen
You may just like those colors better.
Again, leica is leica ❤
Always.
Leica tends to be purple
It’s definitely more magenta than Sony, especially the M11.
Sony colors look ugly compared to Leica.
I always prefer Leica colors.