“If everyone would watch this channel, there would be no Calvinism left” -Kevin Thompson You are so right about that. The Calvinists that do watch this channel are only here to argue, not to “listen and learn”
Not true. Every time I've discussed Calvinism here I've found that they are confusing hyper-Calvinism with Calvinism and/or are using useless oversimplifications of Calvinism to drive their contempt for it.
@@scienceandbibleresearchNot true. There is no such thing as “hyper Calvinism.” Are you claiming to be a Calvinist who rejects the belief that God willed and predetermined EVERYTHING? Or are you just a contradictory Calvinist who calls consistent Calvinists “hyper?”
Absolutely! Calvinism paints God as a weird vindictive psycopathic tyrant... determining the most heinous of actions for other to commit and then calling himself good. No a good, perfect God, almighty, omniscient and omnipresent created us to have free will, aka the ability to rebel against Him... which explains how evil exists yet God remains good.
Yeah I honestly care about free will because of the philosophical implications but the greatest of my objections of determinism is that it makes God the ultimate cause of evil. Every wicked deed is foreordained and brought about by the divine decree of God to promote his glory. That’s total and utter blasphemy according to scripture.
@@Topher3088 We can care about free will because Scripture implies it. Kevin's point is that when dealing with a Calvinist we shouldn't argue for free will as an axiomatic premise, but rather, the authority of Scripture and that Scripture is true. Make the Calvinist stay within Scripture (not jump to philosophical arguments) and make them realize that they don't believe what Scripture says.
Arguing for free will is like trying to make the case for a spherical earth. Even engaging with debate with people who believe this nonsense is legitimizing their delusions. The only response people should give to determinists who appeal to your will to try to convince you of their view is "If what you say is true, then I do not have the free will to agree with you."
@@g.c.541 Read carefully. "No" He's saying that it's a poor strategy for arguing with a Calvinist... the same thing that Kevin is explaining in this video. Why? It causes you to enter into their (Calvinist) arena of discourse.
@gingernutpreacher To be fair, the comment is terribly worded. The 2nd sentence is calling either free will or a spherical earth nonsense. It's fair to ask for clarification, I had the same question. The end of the comment helps one make an assumption about what the OP meant, but it's certainly not clear.
@@MineStrongth My fellow grammarian. Thank you. The comment from Emper0rH0rde was a word salad at best. Therefore, I was all the more confused when Eswn1816 and Gingermutpreacher were able to understand what Emper0rH0rde was "really saying."
The book of Jeremiah is FULL of verses that state Israel and Judah willfully turned away from God, they did not and would not listen. When the remnant of Judah got to Egypt, they told Jeremiah that they WOULD worship their other gods, no matter what Jeremiah said. Sounds like free choices to me!
You are very close, Jeremiah and Ezekiel gives plenty examples of man’s will. We will let scripture interpret scripture, Hebrews 8 explains the purpose of the old covenant. Hebrews 8 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. The old covenant was given as a school master to show/proove that man/Israel would or never completely chose God or keep his commandants. God understood the problem he inspired Jeremiah and Ezekiel to state the problem and give his solution. Jeremiah 17:9-10 9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about salvation. John3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus scolded Nicodemus for being a teacher of the law and not understanding what being born again means. Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Jeremiah 31:31-37. Ezekiel 36 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. Notice who is talking, Notice who is the one doing, it is God. God will take out the old heart and put in a new heart, Notice God did not ask Israel to do anything. God was the one who put his spirit in them and CAUSED them to walk in his ways. God said that not me. This is called being born from above 1 Peter 2-3 There are not 2 gospels, one for Israel and another for the gentiles, Jesus included the gentiles when he said other sheep I have that are not of this fold them I must bring in also and they shall be one fold.
@@kgar5String the fact that God does something doesn’t negate the fact that man also made choices. Yes, Gentiles are blessed by the new covenant, but Jeremiah is speaking to Israel in response to their failure.
Speeding sign demands 45.... God commands us to follow the decalogue..... The greatest commandment says to love the Lord our God with all our Heart, mind and strength.... Does a command really necessitate an ability to do said command?
@filmscorelife4225 you're presupposing free will though. What if one's heart was touched in such as way that their new nature compels them to love He that they once hated (maybe not outright hatred but hatred in the sense that they once magnified themselves over God). Irresistible in the sense that they are so filled with God's love that they can do nothing but LOVE (agape) Him and flee to Him. Idk, just food for thought; what if you're wrong and you're impugning the character of God?
@jtbtdlkt2012 I hear you. I'm not one of those angry provisionists. I dont honestly believe I'm presupposing free will. I think that a command by the creator of the universe makes no sense if the created cannot (will not) do said command. Apply this to any real-life situation. Man in wheel chair...no legs.... I see him and tell him to get up and walk. (He can't) I command him to get up and walk....(he can't) I then punish him for not being able to get up and walk. I know the example breaks down eventually, like all examples do. I just think that for me to see his physical state... and demand something from him that is completely impossible is insanity on my part and morally wrong. Love...is a whole other story!! We have no example...literally, NO example of love being demonstrated by God to us (the example to follow), no example by God's love being demonstrated without His own free will. Why would we accept the Calvinist view of love that corrects me if I'm wrong? It is only enabled by God. It's like a "switch He flips" in us....to make it possible. Without the switch.....we are absolutely unable to do so. This "flipping of the switch" eliminates free will. If we adopt this idea that love can only be manipulated...or coerced, then not only is love, not love......God Himself would be incapable Himself to love unless someone higher than Him would "flip his switch." If you are a creationist(I am), it's like evolutionists saying that non life can rise to life EVEN THOUGH there's never been any evidence to believe that. It's never happened before. So why would we accept love being applied in a way that's not demonstrated in scripture?
@filmscorelife4225 hey I totally respect that approach brother and I hear you. I'm not one of those angry Calvinists that would go around condemning people, who have contrary views, to hell. I like the debate and I think as long as brothers/sisters in the faith are talking about God and wanting to know more about Him, then we're on a good path, since we could waste our time discussing things of little spiritual importance.
Qyoting 40mins in: Its fine to leave calvinism, your heart will still be beating, the grocery store will still be open.. you dont need Calvinism. 👍👍 In and of itself it has huge potential to become an idol..
Calvinists who watch this channel do it to improve their ccardiovascular health. Every time Kevin says something they disagree with ( that's a lot!!) their heart rate increases, they begin to sweat, they wave their hands in the air and voila, cardio work out done!
This is the same kind of tactic when dealing with unbelievers as well you cannot start with something they don’t accept but the truth must be the basis of our conversations.
That’s true, but in both cases you are dealing with people who reject the truth so no matter how much truth you start with they might choose to keep rejecting it. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
Thank you so very much for your time (I seriously cannot begin to express my gratitude)! Also, "LOVE THE JAMES LINDSEY REFERENCE"(I pray he puts his faith in Jesus!). Recently I began to sense that Calvanism is Gnostic, Orwellian, and Huxlian. "If only we can force our narrative/presupposition and breed people to accept that world, it will be Utopic." You must leave the narrative/presuppostion and place your bet on the objectivity of truth. Similarly forgetting that "Utopia" literally means "no place", just as the dialectic that those who believe in Gnostic parasitical forms. Talk about being so discombobulated when figuring out if you are saved. A recent pastor I spoke to admitted that he was depressed. I likewise was depressed under a false narrative/presupposition that "predestination must be talking about election of salvation." You have no idea if you are saved, and free will looks like an abyss you must stare into.
Excellent as always! Calvinists argue like Jehovah's Witnesses. Calvinists like the JW's are prone to wonder or change the subject which requires them to point out other Scriptures. You need to hold their attention on the Scripture at hand. You cannot allow them to move away from what the verse or verses actually say. You don't even need to explain the verses. By forcing the person to focus only on the Scripture that's in front of them, you give their mind time to switch off the "auto" switch. On another channel I simply quoted three Bible verses without any commentary on those verses. A raging Calvinist commented saying that I was arguing free will and self-determinism and on and on. I replied back, that I was "so glad that he knew my heart and mind and pointed out that I did not say anything at all about free will or self-determinism. All I did was quote Scripture and I believe that what they say are true." None of the verses I quoted said or even hinted at free will or self-determinism. They were about Jesus being the savior of all men, especially for those who believe, and God consigning all under disobedience so He could show mercy to all, and 1 John 2:2.
Just stumbled upon your channel predetermined. Great and solid methodology: bring them back to the text and authority of scripture. That is what Jesus repeatedly did for the scribes and Pharisees.
Calvansim is more detrimental than Islam. However the Allah of Islam resembles the god of Tulip/calvansim. Yes calvanism is more dangerous than Islam because it tries to portay a false god which they claim is the true God of my bible and their bible. Their god is the god of Tulip and Calvin. So many are lead astray by Tulip and reformed teachers. I feel sad for calvanists who are under the influence of Tulip as I feel sad for my own wife who is under the influence of a false female so called pastor and word of faith/ charasmatic and perhaps nar movement here in Ontario Canada. (East Indian)
I’ll say one thing~ don’t keep yourself contained in a box of thought, blocked out from the real world. It’s disheartening you have this view, seeing as the puritans we’re probably the most devoted people to God in history.
@@ZachFish- sorry sir absolute arrogant statement just like you Tulip which has my 2 kids bound for eternal damnation. You and your family are so lucky to be the elect of your god. I put all my trust in the true God of the bible and not the god of Tulip.
I am not a Calvinist I just believe what the inspired scripture says. How did Christ say we would be saved? John 3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel - Ezekiel 36:25-27 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways. This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked). There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also. You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
This is what I have been thinking for a few months. After learning about what calvinism is for a couple years and wanting to discuss non-calvinist ideas with calvinists, I have felt like it is useless unless you discuss scripture. After listening to this, I don't remember hearing this point My reason is that if you discuss ideas, neither person gets to the heart of the issue, scriptures are interpreted differently.
@@alisterrebelo9013 My solution is that you discuss interpretations of various scriptures. You talk with people and read various views. You decide which view you think is more plausibly the one intended. This way, you are actually gaining biblical knowledge. And if, at a later time, you change your view on a passage, you have a better understanding of how that might affect your overall soteriology.
@@alisterrebelo9013 if you go round and round on issues like free will or God's omniscience (how exactly it works), and you aren't discussing scriptures, then you won't move forward in your knowledge of God's word and how strong an argument is.
@@cherylaguilar5421 Does it bother you that the various denominations of the Reformation cannot have unanimous agreement on what constitutes 1) doctrines and 2) which doctrines are salvific? (It certainly bothers me). If we all, as Christians, claim that the Holy Spirit is guiding all of us, then how is it that we are being led in different directions?
“Freewill” (one word) is Scriptural. Leviticus 22:18 “Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his ***freewill*** offerings, which they will offer unto the Lord for a burnt offering.” Someone tried to tell me the only times the Bible shows Freewill in man it is in a negative light. This directly contradicts that. Yes, they try to explain that this is just a type of offering and it’s not really “Free Will”. But then they’re now burdened with showing why the version of what they say is “Free Will” is to be taken as the correct one over what the Bible calls “Freewill”. For further context on the Scriptural use of “Freewill”: נְדָבָה nᵉdâbâh, ned-aw-baw'; from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:-free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering) נָדַב nâdab, naw-dab'; a primitive root; to impel; hence, to volunteer (as a soldier), to present spontaneously:-offer freely, be (give, make, offer self) willing(-ly) The first time the root word in “Freewill” is mentioned is: Exodus 25:2 “Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it ***willingly*** with his heart ye shall take my offering.” Exodus 35:21, 25-26, 29 “And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made ***willing*** … And all the women that were wise hearted … And all the women whose heart stirred them up … The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.” I just find all of that such a beautiful example of Scriptural “Freewill” that I definitely do bring it up when Calvinists share their man-made memes with man-made doctrines about “Free Will”.
From our “Calvinist Bomb” #12 created July 8,2015: ///“12. In the KJV, commissioned by a Scottish Presbyterian Calvinist and translated by teams that included Calvinists, "Free will" appears 17 times. "Predestination" occurs 4 times. "Sovereignty" is not mentioned.”/// This still does not mean that “freewill” or “free will” is a good axiomatic premise when dealing with Calvinists from a tactical or strategic standpoint.
@@KevinThompson1611 I can agree that I wouldn’t lead with this. But I do like to use at as a response when they keep bringing it up or sharing their disparaging memes.
Faith is not a work (that meme) - Paul says so in Romans 4 But to him that worketh not, *but believeth* on him that justifieth the ungodly, *his faith* is counted for righteousness. . Works vs. belief, faith. Paul is making distinctions.
Kevin, A big problem with discussions on free will is that all too often the focus is on the issue of lesser importance ( man’s free will ) and not on the issue of far greater importance of God’s free will ability to freely make His own decisions. When we go to God in prayer we do not pray to free will bearing humans hoping they will intervene. We pray hoping that God will freely choose to intervene. When we take our focus off of the issue of our free will and focus instead on what the scriptures teach about God making His own decisions we begin to realize that there are some very good questions that we need to ask ourselves about what God is like. Then of course we need to go to the scriptures to get the answers to those questions. Some good questions are as follows. Can God swear ( promise ) that He will do a particular thing and then break that promise if He is morally justified in doing so? Can God experience changes in His knowledge? Can God change His mind? Can God experience changes in His emotions that might cause Him to consider changing His mind? Is God’s knowledge of the future both an ability that God has and an obligation that He faces or is it an ability that He has and not an obligation that He faces? Can God freely choose to leave at least some of the future open to different possible outcomes and therefore not foreknown as certain? If God’s nature is such that He is obligated to foreknow absolutely everything as absolutely certain then to what extent does the option of making changes to the future actually exist as a real option for God to choose from? If God has always foreknown that tomorrow a loved one of yours will die in an accident then can God freely choose to intervene and prevent from occurring that accident He always knew would occur? Kevin, what are your thoughts on open theism?
The more Scriptures move on, the more the explicit truth is declared that "choice" is the essence of 'free will' which philosophies like Calvinism has stumbled upon and are shattered.
Defending Free Will with scripture only (outside of Calvinism): Revelation 21:5-8 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, *_Behold, I make all things new._* And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. *_I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely._* 7 *_He that overcometh shall inherit all things;_* and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 *_But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death._* Revelation 22:11 11 *_He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still_*
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Every sin after regeneration is a choice, we are free from the bondage of sin, yet we are still tied to the flesh which is weak. Blessed are we who have an advocate and a God willing and able to forgive
Brian i used your tactic on redeemed zoomers comment section on a calvanist that said "keep looking for the truth." Also redeemed zoomer is a calvanist and he is doing the same tactics alot of calvanists do. Spin deflect and project dismiss (he does what everyone does when they're backed into a corner.) I called him out for making a "gnostic" claim, i said "he is in christ he has the truth! The truth is revealed by the holy spirit that jesus is the truth." He said "what is this? Are your trying to spiritize the texts" Right away i said "we should be worshipping in the spirit and truth, not trying to find the truth thats a contradiction." Yeah, he proceeded to gaslight me and call me a heretic. But it was like... dude walked right into my trap and didnt realize he was stuck in a hole.
Are we sure the word 'will' is appropriate? Should it rather be termed 'choice'. If I lack authority my will is immaterial. However, in life, we choose all the time. For instance, since creation man has been immersed in water for bathing and recreation and yes, even in religious rituals. But never is there a hint that immersion in water saves us and even if a person got that notion it would lack validity until that option was made available to them through God's grace (from his word) to validate such a thing. Then an avenue opens up where it did not exist before. We've been doing the very thing our entire lives but never in search of God. But now that avenue through Christ is opened up for us and it is our choice by faith in him to appeal to God through this otherwise ineffectual thing. Both the evil and the good throughout their lives immerse in water so is it a good work? Not innately. But what Jesus says of it makes it a work of obedient faith if we believe what Jesus says of it. So our will does not make it what it is but the will of God through his word makes it what we use it for now. It is the will of man to make it religious but otherwise ineffectual arguing against God's validation through his word. God opens up this avenue and we should take it by faith (choose it). If man's will were of consequence then whatever he chose to appeal to God would move God. It is God's will that we choose to obey his Son. We should choose to submit to his will and live.
@@kgar5String * I'm not sure it matters if your will/choice is as free [as] you say * I had to insert a word to indicate how I was reading you. Well, first things first. I believe I demonstrated there was enough difference between choice and will that they are not interchangeable. We were not free. Not until God gave us the choice. We may have a million ways to go but none of those ways brought us closer to God. God is a spirit and we are entombed in this flesh. This is what we know... We had to be informed that we were more and that more was expected of us. * chose to never sin again. * You can't choose to not sin when you don't even know what sin is. God had to tell us or we would not know. The truth opened up a path and by it set us free from displeasing God. All we have to do is obey the truth by faith.
Many state calvanism is from the devil himself. My question and concern than becomes how can a true believer of the true God of the bible refer to calvanists as brothers and sisters in Christ. True believers find salvation in the true God of the bible. Yes I am pointing to how a calvanist have the saving faith which is only in and of the truw God of the bible. Leighton Flowers and many refer to them as brothers/sisters in Christ...how can that be? I think in the end of this video even Kevin is referring to them as brothers/sisters...in not clear and precise words...but implying that. If I not mistaken Kevin throughout the video has made it clear calvanism is not christianity and if it is not that those that believe in and follow calvansim certainly cannot be brothers/sisters in Christ. Confusion and contradiction often when calvansim is discussed. If the foundation is false than it doesn't matter how nice the rest of the building looks. Even jw Mormons claim to believe in the God of the bible but I believe it is safe to say they are not christians and do not have saving faith in thw true God. They also have a false foundation like calvanism no mater how nice the rest of the building may look. Gos bless Kevin and his ministry and I for one appreciate him and his style of conveying what he says. Calvanism is not a secondary issue just like jw and Mormons are not a secondary issue in what God is the true God of the bible. I struggle with how many people like Leighton and Kevin identify calvanists as brother/sisters in Christ. I am ignorant to scripture at the level of many who comment on channels or have a channel and am not ashamed to admit that. However just like don't and can't consider jw Mormons brothers/ sisters in Christ because of their false foundation I hold to the same for calvanists.
What if you are serving the other God, Saul thought he was right while killing Christians until he was knocked of the donkey. Jesus search the scripture for in the you think you have eternal life, these are they who testify of me, do you testify of him.
Saul worshipped the God of the bible, he was ignorant of the truth concerning Christ. It amazes me how many people have a very interesting idea about Saul that make him out to be this monster who enjoyed killing christians.
I have to disagree. Everyone starts from a philosophical premise. The argument that scripture is a source of authority is a philosophical premise. I agree that Scripture is true and is a source of authority. But it doesn't stop being a philosophical premise just because I agree with it.
That's a different can of worms lol but philosophy should be after theology nobody gets anywhere trying to prove their point backwards. Yes I'm repeating what Mr. Jay dyer says but I disagree with him on the eastern orthodox being the "only true church" when I've met people in all denominations that hold a patristic view and still prefer their Denominational church over the eastern tradition.
@@theeternalslayer Actually theology naturally comes after philosophy seeing as how you must have a philosophical reason to believe in a creator in the first place before you would ask the theological questions as to figuring out who that creator is.
@@sethrankin5319 that's true, i think natural theology is true, somethings prove themselves their's fluidity consistency the patristic view says the same things but the best part about Christianity Backwards and forwards God is still the same and both immovable and irresistible 😇 its like the old question what came first the chicken or the egg 🤔 well based on testimony we known God is uncreated. God isn't an idea, he is a living being and deity that precedes all life, but how? Well based on his word and work. see how that goes into justification without appeals and contradictions 😉 its as simple as taking away the mindset and just let God speak 🙏 hahaha ❤️ look at me nerd out 🤣
For the satire version if how Calvinist read the Bible, worth visiting not ESV but nsb - new Calvinist Bible by kings wood hart - a good collection of passages of what is actually written and on how Calvinist read them. One might consider also gal 2:21 for the collection I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly. As Paul does not nullify the grace, not the Grace does not nullify Paul. And through synergysm as a label is a bad start, one should note that synergy and cognates are actually biblical word used in New Testament in Greek. Monergism or its cognates is not in the Bible.
I thought Ephesians 1&2 was and is quite clear. Predetermined plan...God would not leave it all hanging in the balance depending on man to make the right decisions. Its just not Scriptural. Romans 1, Man will not come to God on his own. I mean Most free willers dont even read all of John Chapter 3 and even that speaks more to election than free will. John 3:16! LOL Thank the Lord He is judge and not us.
The Geneva Bible is the Calvinist version. King James1st hated Puritans and their Calvinist views. He especially hated the loads of Calvinist footnotes and running commentary in the magins. They put the Calvinist spin on the verves right next to them. Its why Jame's new Authorized Versions don't have them.
Free will is like: i want to go for a walk outside in the rain. The dilemma is: that I dont want to get wet and I dont want to carry an umbrella. Now what?
@@kgar5String Did you watch the video, or just start typing becaues this is an anti-Calvinist channel, and youir panites bunched up? You are assujing that if man can choose anything, then he can choose the right thing every time. Where is that is scripture? You are aruging philosphy, and not scritpure, just like this video shows.
It's your choice between those 2 options because you have a free will. You don't have unlimited choices but you still have a free will to choose between the choices you do have.
I don’t have the same take on free will. If we had true free will, we could choose to reject God AND have eternal life. We don’t have “free will” so much as the free moral agency to make a specific, binary choice. The choice is given in scripture: Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB95) “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
I totally agree. Separate from Calvinism, I do not use the term "free will" because it implies an unrestricted will (desires included) when clearly our choices are influenced by all kinds of factors. We do not have the free will to jump out of this apartment window and fly! What we all have is the ability to make responsible moral choices as you pointed out.
GOD is eternal Life so no you could not choose: Not GOD and have Eternal Life. Unless you are saying we could become god by our own free choices? That is what our First Parents tried to do. And here we are.
What you are addressing is the way freewill is defined. If defined as a God given ability to choose somethings on our own without God first choosing for us then that’s accurate. People who want to reject freewill falsely define it as the ability to do whatsoever you choose. All they are doing is straw-manning true freewill so that they can defeat it. It’s purposeful confusion which is ironically not of God which also defeats their position.
I've never met a Calvinist that believes in free will, and it is a good thing because it is totally a lie. Arminians are the free will people not Calvinists. Lets get a definition of the word "free" from the dictionary so we are all on the same page: "not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes." Is unsaved man under the "control or in the power of another?" Ephesians 2:2 "... you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." Hmm, the "prince of the power of the air" "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." Who is this "prince?" SATAN. If the unsaved man really has a "free" will that means he can do any act of righteousness he desires, or he can sin if he desires. Jesus said that a "bad tree cannot produce good fruit." The unsaved man CANNOT receive Christ without God drawing him (John 6:44.) His will can ONLY lead him to Hell. As Spurgeon said "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven."
If a person is a slave to sin they have no free will. I'm not calvinist just believe the scriptures. The term free will is a non biblical description of God's working out his grace in men.By him do we believe in God.
Sounds like you don't want to deal with scripture, you admitted you have no answer, the have scripture too. How did Christ say we would be saved? John 3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel - Ezekiel 36:25-27 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways. This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked). There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also. You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
@kgar5string, you need to watch all of the content in the following playlists before commenting further on this channel: - Calvinism defeated - Biblical interpretation - Growth and Transformation - Christian Cognition - The Beatitudes
This doesn’t really work. Calvinist affirm all of these passages “Anyone who calls upon the name of the lord shall be saved” Amen. You believe *anyone can* call upon his name Calvinist believe *only the elect will call* upon his name. So it will all go back to their presupposition of determinism vs your presupposition of free will
How did Christ say we would be saved? John 3 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel - Ezekiel 36:25-27 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways. This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked). There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also. You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
And what does scripture say why people are not saved? 2 thessalonians 2 10-13 and with all decievableness and unrighteousness of them that perish because they recieved not the love of the truth so as to be saved.
Calvinists are not determinists. Few follow this YT channel because of the choices they make to do something else. I respect what you have to say, but it's a non-issue
Well, no one lives like a determinist. But Calvinism is determinism , and so they hold beliefs in dissonance with one another, which works out in illogical behavior
@@plumber1874 That’s a fact. Anyone who rejects determinism rejects Calvinism because it’s a man made deterministic system. People who accept determinism are people who desire to surrender their sense making and become best friends with cognitive dissonance.
Your rant on gobbledygook just shows that you are happy in your ignorance. Your 'Which is Correct' chart is a perfect example of your lack of understanding of the work of God in the role of salvation.
“If everyone would watch this channel, there would be no Calvinism left”
-Kevin Thompson
You are so right about that. The Calvinists that do watch this channel are only here to argue, not to “listen and learn”
The Calvinists are making choices to do something other than to watch
Maybe they are only passively listening to
Not true. Every time I've discussed Calvinism here I've found that they are confusing hyper-Calvinism with Calvinism and/or are using useless oversimplifications of Calvinism to drive their contempt for it.
@@scienceandbibleresearchNot true. There is no such thing as “hyper Calvinism.” Are you claiming to be a Calvinist who rejects the belief that God willed and predetermined EVERYTHING? Or are you just a contradictory Calvinist who calls consistent Calvinists “hyper?”
@@JohnK557: You just demonstrated the point I was making in my comment. If you’re willing to learn I’m here.
Free will is not the only problem with Calvinism. The biggest priblem in my opinion is that it messes with the True nature and character of God.
Absolutely! Calvinism paints God as a weird vindictive psycopathic tyrant... determining the most heinous of actions for other to commit and then calling himself good.
No a good, perfect God, almighty, omniscient and omnipresent created us to have free will, aka the ability to rebel against Him... which explains how evil exists yet God remains good.
Yeah I honestly care about free will because of the philosophical implications but the greatest of my objections of determinism is that it makes God the ultimate cause of evil. Every wicked deed is foreordained and brought about by the divine decree of God to promote his glory. That’s total and utter blasphemy according to scripture.
@@Topher3088 We can care about free will because Scripture implies it. Kevin's point is that when dealing with a Calvinist we shouldn't argue for free will as an axiomatic premise, but rather, the authority of Scripture and that Scripture is true. Make the Calvinist stay within Scripture (not jump to philosophical arguments) and make them realize that they don't believe what Scripture says.
“My argument is that this passage is true.” BOOM Amen!
Arguing for free will is like trying to make the case for a spherical earth. Even engaging with debate with people who believe this nonsense is legitimizing their delusions. The only response people should give to determinists who appeal to your will to try to convince you of their view is "If what you say is true, then I do not have the free will to agree with you."
@Emper0rH0rde, wait, are you saying you do NOT believe the earth is a sphere (globe)?
@@g.c.541
Read carefully.
"No"
He's saying that it's a poor strategy for arguing with a Calvinist... the same thing that Kevin is explaining in this video.
Why?
It causes you to enter into their (Calvinist) arena of discourse.
@@g.c.541he clearly is not saying that
@gingernutpreacher To be fair, the comment is terribly worded. The 2nd sentence is calling either free will or a spherical earth nonsense. It's fair to ask for clarification, I had the same question. The end of the comment helps one make an assumption about what the OP meant, but it's certainly not clear.
@@MineStrongth My fellow grammarian. Thank you. The comment from Emper0rH0rde was a word salad at best. Therefore, I was all the more confused when Eswn1816 and Gingermutpreacher were able to understand what Emper0rH0rde was "really saying."
The book of Jeremiah is FULL of verses that state Israel and Judah willfully turned away from God, they did not and would not listen. When the remnant of Judah got to Egypt, they told Jeremiah that they WOULD worship their other gods, no matter what Jeremiah said. Sounds like free choices to me!
You are very close,
Jeremiah and Ezekiel gives plenty examples of man’s will. We will let scripture interpret scripture, Hebrews 8 explains the purpose of the old covenant.
Hebrews 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
The old covenant was given as a school master to show/proove that man/Israel would or never completely chose God or keep his commandants. God understood the problem he inspired Jeremiah and Ezekiel to state the problem and give his solution.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jesus when talking to Nicodemus about salvation.
John3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jesus scolded Nicodemus for being a teacher of the law and not understanding what being born again means.
Jesus was referring to Ezekiel 36:25-27 and Jeremiah 31:31-37.
Ezekiel 36
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Notice who is talking, Notice who is the one doing, it is God. God will take out the old heart and put in a new heart, Notice God did not ask Israel to do anything. God was the one who put his spirit in them and CAUSED them to walk in his ways. God said that not me. This is called being born from above 1 Peter 2-3
There are not 2 gospels, one for Israel and another for the gentiles, Jesus included the gentiles when he said other sheep I have that are not of this fold them I must bring in also and they shall be one fold.
@@kgar5String the fact that God does something doesn’t negate the fact that man also made choices. Yes, Gentiles are blessed by the new covenant, but Jeremiah is speaking to Israel in response to their failure.
A calvinist would simply say, "God predetermined their choice based on their depraved state." Yet they rarely use scripture.@janetdavis6473
Perfectly presented video, thank you. I'm sure God predestined for me to love this video. 🤫
🤣
This is what i want to do Kevin! I want to argue for free will. But now I am watching for you to tell me why I am wrong.
We don't have to. Every place the Bible gives humans a command to do anything demands it.
Speeding sign demands 45....
God commands us to follow the decalogue.....
The greatest commandment says to love the Lord our God with all our Heart, mind and strength....
Does a command really necessitate an ability to do said command?
@jtbtdlkt2012 Yes. Otherwise the one commanding the human would be insane. And using the word "Love" absolutely cannot exist without choice.
@filmscorelife4225 you're presupposing free will though.
What if one's heart was touched in such as way that their new nature compels them to love He that they once hated (maybe not outright hatred but hatred in the sense that they once magnified themselves over God).
Irresistible in the sense that they are so filled with God's love that they can do nothing but LOVE (agape) Him and flee to Him.
Idk, just food for thought; what if you're wrong and you're impugning the character of God?
@jtbtdlkt2012 I hear you. I'm not one of those angry provisionists.
I dont honestly believe I'm presupposing free will. I think that a command by the creator of the universe makes no sense if the created cannot (will not) do said command. Apply this to any real-life situation.
Man in wheel chair...no legs.... I see him and tell him to get up and walk. (He can't)
I command him to get up and walk....(he can't)
I then punish him for not being able to get up and walk.
I know the example breaks down eventually, like all examples do. I just think that for me to see his physical state... and demand something from him that is completely impossible is insanity on my part and morally wrong.
Love...is a whole other story!! We have no example...literally, NO example of love being demonstrated by God to us (the example to follow), no example by God's love being demonstrated without His own free will. Why would we accept the Calvinist view of love that corrects me if I'm wrong? It is only enabled by God. It's like a "switch He flips" in us....to make it possible. Without the switch.....we are absolutely unable to do so. This "flipping of the switch" eliminates free will. If we adopt this idea that love can only be manipulated...or coerced, then not only is love, not love......God Himself would be incapable Himself to love unless someone higher than Him would "flip his switch."
If you are a creationist(I am), it's like evolutionists saying that non life can rise to life EVEN THOUGH there's never been any evidence to believe that. It's never happened before. So why would we accept love being applied in a way that's not demonstrated in scripture?
@filmscorelife4225 hey I totally respect that approach brother and I hear you. I'm not one of those angry Calvinists that would go around condemning people, who have contrary views, to hell.
I like the debate and I think as long as brothers/sisters in the faith are talking about God and wanting to know more about Him, then we're on a good path, since we could waste our time discussing things of little spiritual importance.
Qyoting 40mins in: Its fine to leave calvinism, your heart will still be beating, the grocery store will still be open.. you dont need Calvinism. 👍👍
In and of itself it has huge potential to become an idol..
Calvinism is an idol. It was the Calvinist that had the potential of idolatry.
Which they'd deny.. but is glaring, in some, for the rest of us 😂
@@djs9315 do this. 40:00
Calvinists who watch this channel do it to improve their ccardiovascular health. Every time Kevin says something they disagree with ( that's a lot!!) their heart rate increases, they begin to sweat, they wave their hands in the air and voila, cardio work out done!
🤣
This is the same kind of tactic when dealing with unbelievers as well you cannot start with something they don’t accept but the truth must be the basis of our conversations.
That’s true, but in both cases you are dealing with people who reject the truth so no matter how much truth you start with they might choose to keep rejecting it. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.
@@JohnK557 knowing this truth is what wither makes or breaks evangelism. We are commanded to PREACH, NOT CONVINCE.
@@strayvion808 Yep!
Thank you for your ministry! I learn a lot from you. God bless you!
Thank you so very much for your time (I seriously cannot begin to express my gratitude)! Also, "LOVE THE JAMES LINDSEY REFERENCE"(I pray he puts his faith in Jesus!). Recently I began to sense that Calvanism is Gnostic, Orwellian, and Huxlian. "If only we can force our narrative/presupposition and breed people to accept that world, it will be Utopic." You must leave the narrative/presuppostion and place your bet on the objectivity of truth. Similarly forgetting that "Utopia" literally means "no place", just as the dialectic that those who believe in Gnostic parasitical forms. Talk about being so discombobulated when figuring out if you are saved. A recent pastor I spoke to admitted that he was depressed. I likewise was depressed under a false narrative/presupposition that "predestination must be talking about election of salvation." You have no idea if you are saved, and free will looks like an abyss you must stare into.
Excellent as always! Calvinists argue like Jehovah's Witnesses. Calvinists like the JW's are prone to wonder or change the subject which requires them to point out other Scriptures. You need to hold their attention on the Scripture at hand. You cannot allow them to move away from what the verse or verses actually say. You don't even need to explain the verses. By forcing the person to focus only on the Scripture that's in front of them, you give their mind time to switch off the "auto" switch.
On another channel I simply quoted three Bible verses without any commentary on those verses. A raging Calvinist commented saying that I was arguing free will and self-determinism and on and on. I replied back, that I was "so glad that he knew my heart and mind and pointed out that I did not say anything at all about free will or self-determinism. All I did was quote Scripture and I believe that what they say are true." None of the verses I quoted said or even hinted at free will or self-determinism. They were about Jesus being the savior of all men, especially for those who believe, and God consigning all under disobedience so He could show mercy to all, and 1 John 2:2.
Calvinism error idea about Free Will is Anti-Christ.
Thank you for this video, very helpful.🌷👍😊
That is right!
Just stumbled upon your channel predetermined. Great and solid methodology: bring them back to the text and authority of scripture. That is what Jesus repeatedly did for the scribes and Pharisees.
We should voluntarily drop free will arguments.
🤣😂
thx for showing us that
You're right Kevin. I'll drop my free will arguments (even though I really like them).
The reason you have to drop free, if your will was as free as you say, you could just chose to never sin again.
@@kgar5StringDo you think God makes people sin? Or did you not know that it is Satan who tempts men to sin, not God?
Paul's will was free until Christ changed it. Out of the group Paul was with, Christ chose only Paul. You think Paul chose ?
What I think doesn’t matter. Gotta pay attention to the text:
Paul's Conversion Disproves Calvinism
ruclips.net/video/TO6bHU3zgZw/видео.html
Good job Kev
Excellent. Thank you.
Change of seasons and panic attack are my favorite songs
Calvansim is more detrimental than Islam. However the Allah of Islam resembles the god of Tulip/calvansim. Yes calvanism is more dangerous than Islam because it tries to portay a false god which they claim is the true God of my bible and their bible. Their god is the god of Tulip and Calvin. So many are lead astray by Tulip and reformed teachers. I feel sad for calvanists who are under the influence of Tulip as I feel sad for my own wife who is under the influence of a false female so called pastor and word of faith/ charasmatic and perhaps nar movement here in Ontario Canada. (East Indian)
Well put
I’ll say one thing~ don’t keep yourself contained in a box of thought, blocked out from the real world.
It’s disheartening you have this view, seeing as the puritans we’re probably the most devoted people to God in history.
@@ZachFish- sorry sir absolute arrogant statement just like you Tulip which has my 2 kids bound for eternal damnation. You and your family are so lucky to be the elect of your god. I put all my trust in the true God of the bible and not the god of Tulip.
I am not a Calvinist I just believe what the inspired scripture says.
How did Christ say we would be saved?
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel -
Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways.
This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked).
There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also.
You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
Exactly. Both worship Satan.
This is definitely going in my notebook on standing with scripture against Calvinism
This is what I have been thinking for a few months. After learning about what calvinism is for a couple years and wanting to discuss non-calvinist ideas with calvinists, I have felt like it is useless unless you discuss scripture. After listening to this, I don't remember hearing this point
My reason is that if you discuss ideas, neither person gets to the heart of the issue, scriptures are interpreted differently.
@@cherylaguilar5421 What is your solution on how to overcome the interpretation problem?
@@alisterrebelo9013 My solution is that you discuss interpretations of various scriptures. You talk with people and read various views. You decide which view you think is more plausibly the one intended. This way, you are actually gaining biblical knowledge. And if, at a later time, you change your view on a passage, you have a better understanding of how that might affect your overall soteriology.
@@alisterrebelo9013 if you go round and round on issues like free will or God's omniscience (how exactly it works), and you aren't discussing scriptures, then you won't move forward in your knowledge of God's word and how strong an argument is.
@@cherylaguilar5421 Does it bother you that the various denominations of the Reformation cannot have unanimous agreement on what constitutes 1) doctrines and 2) which doctrines are salvific? (It certainly bothers me).
If we all, as Christians, claim that the Holy Spirit is guiding all of us, then how is it that we are being led in different directions?
“Freewill” (one word) is Scriptural.
Leviticus 22:18
“Speak unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel, and say unto them, Whatsoever he be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers in Israel, that will offer his oblation for all his vows, and for all his ***freewill*** offerings, which they will offer unto the Lord for a burnt offering.”
Someone tried to tell me the only times the Bible shows Freewill in man it is in a negative light. This directly contradicts that. Yes, they try to explain that this is just a type of offering and it’s not really “Free Will”. But then they’re now burdened with showing why the version of what they say is “Free Will” is to be taken as the correct one over what the Bible calls “Freewill”.
For further context on the Scriptural use of “Freewill”:
נְדָבָה nᵉdâbâh, ned-aw-baw'; from H5068; properly (abstractly) spontaneity, or (adjectively) spontaneous; also (concretely) a spontaneous or (by inference, in plural) abundant gift:-free(-will) offering, freely, plentiful, voluntary(-ily, offering), willing(-ly), offering)
נָדַב nâdab, naw-dab'; a primitive root; to impel; hence, to volunteer (as a soldier), to present spontaneously:-offer freely, be (give, make, offer self) willing(-ly)
The first time the root word in “Freewill” is mentioned is:
Exodus 25:2
“Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it ***willingly*** with his heart ye shall take my offering.”
Exodus 35:21, 25-26, 29
“And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made ***willing*** … And all the women that were wise hearted … And all the women whose heart stirred them up … The children of Israel brought a willing offering unto the Lord, every man and woman, whose heart made them willing to bring for all manner of work, which the Lord had commanded to be made by the hand of Moses.”
I just find all of that such a beautiful example of Scriptural “Freewill” that I definitely do bring it up when Calvinists share their man-made memes with man-made doctrines about “Free Will”.
Since you will is so free, why no chose to never sin again?
@@kgar5String Did you read the Scriptures? Do you think God was asking for an offering from people that they couldn’t give to Him?
From our “Calvinist Bomb” #12 created July 8,2015:
///“12. In the KJV, commissioned by a Scottish Presbyterian Calvinist and translated by teams that included Calvinists, "Free will" appears 17 times. "Predestination" occurs 4 times. "Sovereignty" is not mentioned.”///
This still does not mean that “freewill” or “free will” is a good axiomatic premise when dealing with Calvinists from a tactical or strategic standpoint.
@@KevinThompson1611 I can agree that I wouldn’t lead with this. But I do like to use at as a response when they keep bringing it up or sharing their disparaging memes.
@kgar5String if you are determined to be saved by grace and to be righteous before God, why are you not determined to never sin again?
Faith is not a work (that meme) - Paul says so in Romans 4 But to him that worketh not, *but believeth* on him that justifieth the ungodly, *his faith* is counted for righteousness. . Works vs. belief, faith. Paul is making distinctions.
Kevin, A big problem with discussions on free will is that all too often the focus is on the issue of lesser importance ( man’s free will ) and not on the issue of far greater importance of God’s free will ability to freely make His own decisions. When we go to God in prayer we do not pray to free will bearing humans hoping they will intervene. We pray hoping that God will freely choose to intervene. When we take our focus off of the issue of our free will and focus instead on what the scriptures teach about God making His own decisions we begin to realize that there are some very good questions that we need to ask ourselves about what God is like. Then of course we need to go to the scriptures to get the answers to those questions. Some good questions are as follows. Can God swear ( promise ) that He will do a particular thing and then break that promise if He is morally justified in doing so? Can God experience changes in His knowledge? Can God change His mind? Can God experience changes in His emotions that might cause Him to consider changing His mind? Is God’s knowledge of the future both an ability that God has and an obligation that He faces or is it an ability that He has and not an obligation that He faces? Can God freely choose to leave at least some of the future open to different possible outcomes and therefore not foreknown as certain? If God’s nature is such that He is obligated to foreknow absolutely everything as absolutely certain then to what extent does the option of making changes to the future actually exist as a real option for God to choose from? If God has always foreknown that tomorrow a loved one of yours will die in an accident then can God freely choose to intervene and prevent from occurring that accident He always knew would occur? Kevin, what are your thoughts on open theism?
The more Scriptures move on, the more the explicit truth is declared that "choice" is the essence of 'free will' which philosophies like Calvinism has stumbled upon and are shattered.
Non free free will. Makes perfect sense. Just like a square circle makes sense. Upside down is rightside up and east is west. 🤪
What if my church is not declared calvinist but inject some calvinist teachings into it. Should I disregard them and stay, say something or leave??
Also a DT fan? Just subscribed!
Defending Free Will with scripture only (outside of Calvinism):
Revelation 21:5-8
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, *_Behold, I make all things new._* And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. *_I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely._*
7 *_He that overcometh shall inherit all things;_* and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 *_But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death._*
Revelation 22:11
11 *_He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still_*
If you will is as free as you say, chose to never sin again.
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Every sin after regeneration is a choice, we are free from the bondage of sin, yet we are still tied to the flesh which is weak. Blessed are we who have an advocate and a God willing and able to forgive
Amen
Brian i used your tactic on redeemed zoomers comment section on a calvanist that said "keep looking for the truth." Also redeemed zoomer is a calvanist and he is doing the same tactics alot of calvanists do. Spin deflect and project dismiss (he does what everyone does when they're backed into a corner.)
I called him out for making a "gnostic" claim, i said "he is in christ he has the truth! The truth is revealed by the holy spirit that jesus is the truth."
He said "what is this? Are your trying to spiritize the texts"
Right away i said "we should be worshipping in the spirit and truth, not trying to find the truth thats a contradiction."
Yeah, he proceeded to gaslight me and call me a heretic. But it was like... dude walked right into my trap and didnt realize he was stuck in a hole.
ephesians 2:8-10
Are we sure the word 'will' is appropriate? Should it rather be termed 'choice'. If I lack authority my will is immaterial. However, in life, we choose all the time. For instance, since creation man has been immersed in water for bathing and recreation and yes, even in religious rituals. But never is there a hint that immersion in water saves us and even if a person got that notion it would lack validity until that option was made available to them through God's grace (from his word) to validate such a thing. Then an avenue opens up where it did not exist before. We've been doing the very thing our entire lives but never in search of God. But now that avenue through Christ is opened up for us and it is our choice by faith in him to appeal to God through this otherwise ineffectual thing. Both the evil and the good throughout their lives immerse in water so is it a good work? Not innately. But what Jesus says of it makes it a work of obedient faith if we believe what Jesus says of it. So our will does not make it what it is but the will of God through his word makes it what we use it for now. It is the will of man to make it religious but otherwise ineffectual arguing against God's validation through his word. God opens up this avenue and we should take it by faith (choose it). If man's will were of consequence then whatever he chose to appeal to God would move God. It is God's will that we choose to obey his Son. We should choose to submit to his will and live.
I'm not sure it matters if your will/choice is as free you say, chose to never sin again.
@@kgar5String * I'm not sure it matters if your will/choice is as free [as] you say * I had to insert a word to indicate how I was reading you. Well, first things first. I believe I demonstrated there was enough difference between choice and will that they are not interchangeable. We were not free. Not until God gave us the choice. We may have a million ways to go but none of those ways brought us closer to God. God is a spirit and we are entombed in this flesh. This is what we know... We had to be informed that we were more and that more was expected of us. * chose to never sin again. * You can't choose to not sin when you don't even know what sin is. God had to tell us or we would not know. The truth opened up a path and by it set us free from displeasing God. All we have to do is obey the truth by faith.
Many state calvanism is from the devil himself. My question and concern than becomes how can a true believer of the true God of the bible refer to calvanists as brothers and sisters in Christ. True believers find salvation in the true God of the bible. Yes I am pointing to how a calvanist have the saving faith which is only in and of the truw God of the bible. Leighton Flowers and many refer to them as brothers/sisters in Christ...how can that be? I think in the end of this video even Kevin is referring to them as brothers/sisters...in not clear and precise words...but implying that. If I not mistaken Kevin throughout the video has made it clear calvanism is not christianity and if it is not that those that believe in and follow calvansim certainly cannot be brothers/sisters in Christ. Confusion and contradiction often when calvansim is discussed. If the foundation is false than it doesn't matter how nice the rest of the building looks. Even jw Mormons claim to believe in the God of the bible but I believe it is safe to say they are not christians and do not have saving faith in thw true God. They also have a false foundation like calvanism no mater how nice the rest of the building may look. Gos bless Kevin and his ministry and I for one appreciate him and his style of conveying what he says. Calvanism is not a secondary issue just like jw and Mormons are not a secondary issue in what God is the true God of the bible. I struggle with how many people like Leighton and Kevin identify calvanists as brother/sisters in Christ. I am ignorant to scripture at the level of many who comment on channels or have a channel and am not ashamed to admit that. However just like don't and can't consider jw Mormons brothers/ sisters in Christ because of their false foundation I hold to the same for calvanists.
What if you are serving the other God, Saul thought he was right while killing Christians until he was knocked of the donkey. Jesus search the scripture for in the you think you have eternal life, these are they who testify of me, do you testify of him.
Saul worshipped the God of the bible, he was ignorant of the truth concerning Christ. It amazes me how many people have a very interesting idea about Saul that make him out to be this monster who enjoyed killing christians.
I have to disagree. Everyone starts from a philosophical premise. The argument that scripture is a source of authority is a philosophical premise. I agree that Scripture is true and is a source of authority. But it doesn't stop being a philosophical premise just because I agree with it.
That's a different can of worms lol but philosophy should be after theology nobody gets anywhere trying to prove their point backwards.
Yes I'm repeating what Mr. Jay dyer says but I disagree with him on the eastern orthodox being the "only true church" when I've met people in all denominations that hold a patristic view and still prefer their Denominational church over the eastern tradition.
@@theeternalslayer Actually theology naturally comes after philosophy seeing as how you must have a philosophical reason to believe in a creator in the first place before you would ask the theological questions as to figuring out who that creator is.
@@sethrankin5319 that's true, i think natural theology is true, somethings prove themselves their's fluidity consistency the patristic view says the same things but the best part about Christianity Backwards and forwards God is still the same and both immovable and irresistible 😇 its like the old question what came first the chicken or the egg 🤔 well based on testimony we known God is uncreated. God isn't an idea, he is a living being and deity that precedes all life, but how? Well based on his word and work. see how that goes into justification without appeals and contradictions 😉 its as simple as taking away the mindset and just let God speak 🙏 hahaha ❤️ look at me nerd out 🤣
For the satire version if how Calvinist read the Bible, worth visiting not ESV but nsb - new Calvinist Bible by kings wood hart - a good collection of passages of what is actually written and on how Calvinist read them.
One might consider also gal 2:21 for the collection
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
As Paul does not nullify the grace, not the Grace does not nullify Paul.
And through synergysm as a label is a bad start, one should note that synergy and cognates are actually biblical word used in New Testament in Greek. Monergism or its cognates is not in the Bible.
I thought Ephesians 1&2 was and is quite clear. Predetermined plan...God would not leave it all hanging in the balance depending on man to make the right decisions. Its just not Scriptural. Romans 1, Man will not come to God on his own. I mean Most free willers dont even read all of John Chapter 3 and even that speaks more to election than free will. John 3:16! LOL Thank the Lord He is judge and not us.
Lol you could rewrite the whole Bible like this, call it the calvinist version
The Geneva Bible is the Calvinist version. King James1st hated Puritans and their Calvinist views. He especially hated the loads of Calvinist footnotes and running commentary in the magins. They put the Calvinist spin on the verves right next to them. Its why Jame's new Authorized Versions don't have them.
Free will is like: i want to go for a walk outside in the rain. The dilemma is: that I dont want to get wet and I dont want to carry an umbrella. Now what?
Make a decision, using your free will. Nobody will decide for you. That's how it works.
@@MakingMetal Chose to never sin again.
@@kgar5String Did you watch the video, or just start typing becaues this is an anti-Calvinist channel, and youir panites bunched up?
You are assujing that if man can choose anything, then he can choose the right thing every time. Where is that is scripture? You are aruging philosphy, and not scritpure, just like this video shows.
@@kgar5StringDid you choose to reject the Gospel, not watch the video and post comments that expose yourself?
It's your choice between those 2 options because you have a free will. You don't have unlimited choices but you still have a free will to choose between the choices you do have.
Calvinists do not believe in believing
I believe in what Jesus did for me!
Am convinced that Calvinism/reformed theology is FALSE and will not debate with this false theology, but stay within the authority of scripture.
I don’t have the same take on free will. If we had true free will, we could choose to reject God AND have eternal life. We don’t have “free will” so much as the free moral agency to make a specific, binary choice. The choice is given in scripture:
Deuteronomy 30:19 (NASB95) “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
I totally agree.
Separate from Calvinism, I do not use the term "free will" because it implies an unrestricted will (desires included) when clearly our choices are influenced by all kinds of factors. We do not have the free will to jump out of this apartment window and fly!
What we all have is the ability to make responsible moral choices as you pointed out.
There's a difference between will and power.
GOD is eternal Life so no you could not choose: Not GOD and have Eternal Life. Unless you are saying we could become god by our own free choices? That is what our First Parents tried to do. And here we are.
What you are addressing is the way freewill is defined. If defined as a God given ability to choose somethings on our own without God first choosing for us then that’s accurate. People who want to reject freewill falsely define it as the ability to do whatsoever you choose. All they are doing is straw-manning true freewill so that they can defeat it. It’s purposeful confusion which is ironically not of God which also defeats their position.
@@eswn1816 If you will is free, chose to never sin again.
I've never met a Calvinist that believes in free will, and it is a good thing because it is totally a lie. Arminians are the free will people not Calvinists.
Lets get a definition of the word "free" from the dictionary so we are all on the same page: "not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes." Is unsaved man under the "control or in the power of another?" Ephesians 2:2 "... you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." Hmm, the "prince of the power of the air" "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." Who is this "prince?" SATAN. If the unsaved man really has a "free" will that means he can do any act of righteousness he desires, or he can sin if he desires. Jesus said that a "bad tree cannot produce good fruit." The unsaved man CANNOT receive Christ without God drawing him (John 6:44.) His will can ONLY lead him to Hell. As Spurgeon said "Free will carried many a soul to hell, but never a soul to heaven."
If a person is a slave to sin they have no free will. I'm not calvinist just believe the scriptures. The term free will is a non biblical description of God's working out his grace in men.By him do we believe in God.
"if a person is a slave to sin, they do not have free will"
What scripture is that?
Sounds like you don't want to deal with scripture, you admitted you have no answer, the have scripture too.
How did Christ say we would be saved?
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel -
Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways.
This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked).
There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also.
You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
This comment demonstrates a general problem in the Church, and is one of the big problems with most Calvinists I've seen.
It's Biblical illiteracy.
@kgar5string, you need to watch all of the content in the following playlists before commenting further on this channel:
- Calvinism defeated
- Biblical interpretation
- Growth and Transformation
- Christian Cognition
- The Beatitudes
This doesn’t really work.
Calvinist affirm all of these passages
“Anyone who calls upon the name of the lord shall be saved”
Amen.
You believe *anyone can* call upon his name
Calvinist believe *only the elect will call* upon his name.
So it will all go back to their presupposition of determinism vs your presupposition of free will
We have no presupposition of free will.
Calvinists lie if they affirm passages that contradict their paradigm.
How did Christ say we would be saved?
John 3
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jesus was referencing Ezekiel -
Ezekiel 36:25-27
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Notice who is talking, God; Notice that he did not ask Israel to do anything; Notice God is the one doing, He takes out the heart of flesh, he puts in a heart of flesh, he cleanse them with water, he puts his spirit in them, he causes them to walk in his ways.
This is how we are born again (from above) we do nothing but receive. God knew Israel could/would never continually believe or keep his commandants, this is why we have the new covenant where he fixes the problem (heart that is disparately wicked).
There are not two gospels, one for Israel and one for the gentiles, Jesus makes this clear when said "other sheep I have that are not of this fold, them I must bring in also.
You can continually believe, chose God and abide when you have God's spirit in you which is the reason he gave it to us. Can you give the spirit back? Which scripture says so? How can you be unborn was God is the one who does it?
And what does scripture say why people are not saved? 2 thessalonians 2 10-13 and with all decievableness and unrighteousness of them that perish because they recieved not the love of the truth so as to be saved.
Calvinists are not determinists. Few follow this YT channel because of the choices they make to do something else. I respect what you have to say, but it's a non-issue
Well, no one lives like a determinist. But Calvinism is determinism , and so they hold beliefs in dissonance with one another, which works out in illogical behavior
Calvinists absolutely are determinists. If you don’t know that then you don’t know what Calvinism is.
@@JohnK557most "Calvinist" aren't consistent they give themselves theological carve outs because no one can actually live life as a determinist
@@plumber1874 That’s a fact. Anyone who rejects determinism rejects Calvinism because it’s a man made deterministic system. People who accept determinism are people who desire to surrender their sense making and become best friends with cognitive dissonance.
If you think Calvinism doesn't mean determination of God to decide whom will be saved then you have misrepresented Calvinism.
Your rant on gobbledygook just shows that you are happy in your ignorance. Your 'Which is Correct' chart is a perfect example of your lack of understanding of the work of God in the role of salvation.
Good job Kev