@Rediscovering Lost Railways, its primarily down to one of 2 factors firstly passenger uptake on these rural lines and government transport subsidy cut (laterly privatisation of UK railways). Nice if these vintage lunes were to reopen I believe the stretches on this video have become cycleways and guided busways.
Excellent. I’m from Dunstable. Too much has gone, too many impediments, too much development has taken place for it to be restored. But no it shouldn’t have closed. Being so close to London it should have been seen that these places would develop and would need interconnection. But hindsight always gives wisdom.
I'm from Luton and the old Bridge near Gypsy Lane was removed somewhere between 2005 and 2010 As i remember the road being closed so that it can be removed ( my mum worked in gypsy lane)
I grew up in Dunstable. Back in 1980s there was a push for the reopening of the (then still extant as a freight line to the cement works and Waterlows printing factory) rail line between Dunstable and Luton. This was known as the "Association for Dunstable Area Passenger Trains" (ADAPT). They even ran a rail tour along the line. For a while it looked promising, and indeed "Dunstable" was supposedly added to the destination blinds on some of the new stock bought by BR in the late 1980s in preparation for the reopening to passengers. Sadly it was not to be - privatisation of BR distracted attention and resources, the cement works and Waterlows print works both closed and there was no need for the freight branch either. For a while it lingered on as a potential heritage railway venture but after some rather acrimonious wrangling, the busway promoters got the upper hand and it was all swept away. It is now very, very, very unlikely to ever reappear, even if the full line detailed in this video would link the three mainlines to London. I can remember going for a Sunday morning walk with my Dad as a young teenager in the early-mid 1980s and we both wanted to see what the Dunstable North station site looked like so we walked down Westfield Road and hopped into the site via one of the many gaps in the fencing. It was a waste land, but you still see some bits and pieces if you knew where to look (and Dad did as he'd used it when it was still open). This was just before the council came along and bulldozed the site to build their swanky new offices. Though after they'd built the offices you could still spot the odd bit of railway infrastructure left in the "no mans land" on the edges beyond their car parks. I don't know if those are still there or not some 30+ years later. I used to also walk to/from school along Brewers Hill road and back then you could still see rails where the crossing point used to be, with the line on the north side of the road bought by the AC Delco factory and used as a long linear car park for their workers. One positive side of the busway was that it did provide an excellent traffic free shared foot/cycle path alongside. Very handy for getting to the L&D hospital from Dunstable for example.
Great video - thank you. Having lived near Hertford for the first 30 years of my life, I can only imagine how useful such an east-west link would have been. There is virtually no east-west public transport in Hertfordshire (something HCC is now trying to right with some bus services) - but how lovely this railway would have been. Have cycled along the Cole Green Way many times! Also, let's not forget there was a link between Hertford Cowbridge and the Hertford East branch - although only used by freight - but with possibilities of connections to the West Anglia Main Line, Stratford and Liverpool Street. Again - what a shame this useful link has been consigned to history.
I was a Bengeo lad. And Cowbridge survived into the early 80s. The trackbed parallel to port vale and the bridge over port vale also remained in reasonable condition. As did the spur from the Ecml serving ICI at WGC. As others say in the last 30-40 years too much of the trackbed has been built on. Irony is that in the 80s talk of reopening focussed on how to remove the landfill west of cole green ...a minor issue today The line was also a frequent cross country run for us Richard Hale boys... only when weather was really bad rendering the normal mud runs impassable 😂
My brother and I recently speculated that, with the resurgence of tramways (light-rail), had such a movement occurred when even the experiment of dmus had failed to save rural railways, a tramway could have been a saviour. The absence of signalling and all the heavy infrastructure that made such lines a money pit, and the frequency of tramcars would have been very welcome, especially the use of street running where needed. Sadly, the motor lobby had doomed the old style trams in the official mind from the 1930s right through the 1950s and only using the term 'light rail' brought them back. EU Infrastructure grants have also been taken away from us.
That just what Manchester Metro Link did, it reused BR lines and it not technically a tram system but a light rail system, the reason why Metro Link platforms are so high in the centre of Manchester is because they are the same high as BR's as they reused stations and track, Thomas the Tank Engine once escaped from the East Lancs Railway down to Manchester on the Metro Link Lines as there was and still is a direct track connection.
Railways were expensive to run because of signalling. At the time of Beeching most lines had a signal box at each station, and each junction. Each box required a minimum of two signalmen to cover the working day. The only way to ensure people paid for their train service was to have a manned entrance/exit point - for all the time that people might turn up. The signalling infrastructure, being so vital to safety, required expensive maintenance. The cost of running a line such as this must have been enormous when compared with the revenue. From a simple financial perspective one can see justification for closure. BUT (this angers me) lots of money and effort had gone into developing wayleave, yet tiny bits of land along the way was sold off, thus increasing entropy with no significant gain. The lines should have been placed into hibernation as it would have been obvious to any thinking (non-selfish) person that technology would develop and reduce the cost of operating the line. In answer to you question "Should this railway have closed", the answer is at the time probably _yes_ but the wayleave should have been retained so that the line could be reopened when technology made it financially viable.
Precisely put. These are wonderfully informative and evocative videos. Lines mothballed from the 1980s onwards are now realistic candidates for reopening but too much was lost in the past - a tragic waste of magnificent engineering. Either this route or Hatfield to St Albans should have been safeguarded as east-west links for future use. HCC is now looking at possible tram/bus links. I have mixed feelings about the guided busway (as in Cambridge). One problem was the nature of the junction with the Midland/Thameslink route but surely not insurmountable.
Thank you for that very great compliment - as it happens, I am deep into all things Betjeman at the moment as I prepare to revisit the sites he detailed in his peerless 'Metroland' film...so stay tuned for 'Metroland: Revisited'...coming soon...
Thanks for this great video. So many memories. We visited Wheathampstead station last year where my wife's grandparents first lived. Her great grandmother used to visit them when they lived near Ayot on the Ayot station. We walked the Ayot green way a few years ago. We lived in Luton for a while and remember the plans for the guided bus way. Such a shame that this east west route was lost, how long would it take to drive from Hertford to Leighton Buzzard now?
Vandalism on a massive scale and the country is paying the cost today as the motor car, bus and lorry are now out of favour. However, those in Government at the time milked motor transportation for all it was worth making money out of the process.
That's not the entire story. Let's see. First there were lines and stations that never made money even for the original builders. Attimore Halt springs to mind of a station that was a waste of money - open as it was for a mere 2 months (opened May 1905 only to be closed on 1st July 1905). But what is worse for your argument is the fact that the general public wanted to buy cars with the ending of petrol rationing. Remember that between the ending of petrol rationing and 1964 car ownership increased at a steady 10% per year. These new car owners demanded that the government do something to reduce congestion other than banning their newly found freedom. So the government responded and built new roads. So far, no one has produced any credible evidence that shows that Marples received any financial advantage from being in government and a road builder. There are lots of allegations but no credible evidence of guilt.
The evidence was he didn't pay 30 years tax, also he was in office when another company put in a lower tender than his company for the construction of the Hammersmith Flyover but engineers from his office endorsed his much higher bid and encouraged London County Council to reject the lower bid. Then there was the undervalued property portfolio etc....
@@Scots_Diesel these are allegations not evidence. He was only made Transport Minister in October 1959 and the contract for the Hammersmith Flyover was awarded in January 1960. It was the Ministry 's engineered that rejected the lower tender. But you haven't shown me any evidence that Marples used his influence on the engineers. Whilst his tax dodging is evidence of corruption this covers a period from before he entered Parliament until when he lost his seat in 1974. But is not related to road building and the closure of the railways.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 most of the evidence was conveniently "lost" an as per usual cover up from government. He was also going to sell properties under value to an offshore company who would refurbish them and on sell for 2 and a half times thier money making marbles only liable to 30% thier original value and the offshore 2% stamp duty. The firm evidence has been suppressed for years like the prostitute story that should have appeared in the denning report into the Profumo affair. So whilst there isn't full on evidence of any wrongdoing there is a fair bit of circumstantial evidence to the contrary. It's doubtful that any government with any sense would ever force road freight onto rail primarily for the sheer volume of tax etc collected off commercial vehicles either directly or indirectly, plus the vast numbers employed in that sector. Railways should look at the essence of beeching fast block trains of bulk goods, intercity/long distance/cross country, commuter and selected public service routes (northern scotland/west wales). In saying that, not all closures we're justified others most certainly were.
I went to Ashton Middle School in the late 80s and early 90s and we used to do PE football and rugby in the playing fields that runs along 'dog kennel walk' (now a bowling alley!) which crosses the line between the two Dunstable stops. I was amazed when midway through a lesson a full sized diesel locomotive went past running light engine! It would have been one of the last times any train passed along this line as I never saw another and it quickly became overgrown after then (we used to walk along it, along the back of factories and over the bridge by the now McDonalds/Wickes.
Great video but these are always so depressing. It's not a Matt of hindsight; it should have been obvious that these towns needed links to the outside world and many of them would be much better off today for it.
Absolutely fascinating documentary (as always!). You have a habit of uncovering interesting gems, such as the old movie links, and I wonder how many more are hidden in the background stories of other former railways. Should this one reopen? East-West links post-Beeching have been weak, and arguably would benefit connecting radial routes out of London. But one wonders whether the 'missing link' you've so eloquently described would withstand the business case rigour, and survive decades of preparatory campaigning and planning, that the East-West Rail (Oxford-Cambridge) scheme, currently under construction, has successfully endured. Thank you for an excellently compiled and narrated documentary.
Thank you for your warm, generous remarks about my film - and I think what you say about the business case has it exact - there's just no momentum in government to get behind the building of railways
Fantastic film! Been waiting years for this featurette and I'm thrilled to see it. This disused line is one that only gets more and more relevant with time as more people use these towns and villages to commute to London, not to mention Luton Airport which an east-west rail line would make huge use of. (A major oversight in my view as to why it should never have been closed, given the growth of cheap air travel that was happening in the 60s.). For this reason alone, I think at least some of the line may one day be rebuilt in some form, especially as Luton Airport continues to expand (to the disquiet of many). P.S. The fact too that Hertford now has two stations, with no connection between them, is another anomaly left behind by the closure.
So pleased the film did not disappoint! I think you're right about the need for connections such as this, especially with the airport in mind. Do share the film far and wide if you can!
I was just going to mention The Lady of the Lamp and Lion's appearance as the loco. I never travelled this line but did come into Hatfield GN from St.Albans on a 'special' and visited Bute Street when open for goods. Just imagine all the signs up from NIMBYs if ever a far-sighted government decided to reopen it! These lines should have been retained as a strategic reserve, even if closed in the days of motoring, but do governments here ever think beyond the next general election?
I remember this route when it was still a railway line, I'm 73. In the 1950s it had steam trains and I remember how small the Bute Street engines looked compared to the Midland mainline trains were. A couple of years ago I was cycling along the part of this route from Luton to Batford with my Grandsons. We stopped to watch a Red Kite that was wheeling and soaring above us. I told them that my Grandparents would have seen steam trains chugging along this line but they would not have seen Red Kites here as they were extinct in this area during their life times. Red Kite re-introduction has been such a success but Railway re-introductions are an altogether different proposition.
When the railway left, so did all hope of prosperity for Dunstable. Whilst all the other rail linked towns in the area have thrived, Luton, Leighton, Harpenden, St Albans, Berkhampstead etc, Dunstable slowly fades away into obscurity, starved of the investment that London commuters brought to its neighbours. A collection of faded buildings and faded memories of a once pretty and vibrant little market town. Now all that is left is a legacy of grubby 60s architecture, terrible traffic management and empty shops on a sad and essentially useless high street. "There used to be a town over there"
I don't know much about the town, but I know enough to appreciate it has seen better days - a railway may help reverse some of these fortunes, but I fear there's more to it...thanks for your thoughts!
Superb video again! Always a real pleasure to watch. Thank you for the credit. As I have said before, no railway should have closed. I will leave it at that! 👍🙂
I think possibly reopening the line between Leighton Buzzard and Dunstable would be a smart move. The rest of the line I fear will stay as it is currently a slowly fading memory of the past where steam was supreme. Once again a brilliant and informative film I'm already looking forward to the next one knowing it'll be more than worth the wait
There was whispers to relink between toddington and leagrave to Leighton buzzard. Would have been a good diversion between Luton and Bedford when things go wrong, even moreso with the planned rail hub outside luton
Thank you so much! 😊 NO stations should have closed! Stupid politicians knew there was a post war population growth and should have anticipated 1) building and attendant transport need 2) that not everyone could afford cars 3) as correctly predicted in Titfield Thunderbolt, lanes would be clogged with polluting traffic. The lines should have been kept open at least for goods .now dangerous lorries rattle through the countryside. May Beeching stand forever at a platform, waiting for a train that never comes.. Maybe at Fraserburgh in the freezing wind and snow on a Sunday evening..
The railway network started contracting in WW1 and carried on through the decades years before the Beeching report. The railways had little competition before the advent of the internal combustion engine and as the number of buses, cars and lorries increased it took it toll on railways which were infrequent, slow and expensive to run. In many parts of the country there were duplicate stations provided by different railways companies and track too. Why would you keep it all open ? Makes no financial sense and who would subsidise it all. Please read some decent histories of the closure of the railways and stop believing in the nostalgic guff that is peddled!
I have just googled getting from Hertford to Dunstable on Google maps tomorrow morning at 10am. You can do it in 40 minutes by car or about 1 hour 50 minutes by public transport. So there are viable alternatives now. For those who want it to be reopened I would ask a) how much would it cost b) how long would it take to reopen and c) for the effort is it justified ? There might be alternative routes which could be considered plus use of trams!
As we head towards November, your documentary is like being beside the glow of a roaring fire with a glass of single malt. Absolute heaven! More please!
Gosh, that's so kind of you! I try to upload every few months so I can keep the quality just so. If I made a film every week or even each month it would be a poor show, so I hope you don't mind waiting!
Wow... an amazing film of a much missed rail line !!. If only we hadn't been so quick to "get rid" of these lines. That one would be so useful and convenient for so many people to make links both east and west. So short sighted !!
The primary loser here is Dunstable with no railway connection and, at times, some horrendous traffic. I can imagine that a link to a mainline railway would be very beneficial, but there has so much that has been lost, it's tricky to see where it would run. Probably a link to Luton would make the most sense as, it's in the right direction for journeys to London and I suspect many more people journey from Dunstable to Luton than to Leighton Buzzard. Of course such a thing would mean commandeering the guided bus route as well as a lot of other work. I see much less benefit from Luton to Hertford as it would just be a very lightly used East-West route, as it was in past life. The "East West Rail" route, along what is much of the old "Varsity Line (Oxford-Cambridge), assuming it's all built, will be a lot more beneficial and ought to join up a lot of major radial routes out of London. The Oxford-Bedford part was due to be opened in 2025 (in theory) and, starting from Oxford, joins up with the mainline from Marylebone to Birmingham, then with the West Coast Mainline (that runs through Leighton Buzzard) Midland Mainline at Bedford (that runs through Luton). The further proposed extensions will carry it out to a junction with the East Coast Mainline (which runs through Welwyn) and then onto Cambridge on the West Anglia Main Line. There are then links further East from Cambridge. If anything is the missing link, then it is East West Rail, not the Hertford, Luton & Dunstable railway (noting the issue about Dunstable).
If they had closed but preserved permanent way / track bed it could have been relatively easy to re-open with changes in modern traction, same goes for a lot of routes closed
The East West Rail project is slowly ticking along further north, but maybe something similar to Croydon Tram Link or The Docklands Light Railway may work. Where laying down tracks is impossible, maybe have a tram/DLR vehicle leaving the original route, particularly in Dunstable, where it can travel through the main centre. Buckingham is another town that could do with a spur from Winslow (it's the county's main town after all)?
I started my British Rail career in Luton Crescent Road Yard in 1976 and the railway line at Bute Street to Dunstable was still in use working Oil and Cement trains between the two. Always remember a tragic accident on the line in 77/78 when the locomotives trundling back light from Dunstable one dark wet winters morning ran a couple over using the line as a short cut, it was the days before locos had headlights and the Driver said all they saw was a flash of an umbrella and the couple were gone. Will never forget the Driver, Guard and Second Man sitting in our mess room not long after it had happened. Very sad day.
Thank you so much for this. For years and years I would drive around this area on gigs, and would pass over and under various old railway bridges. Indeed including the A1 and M1. This video explains 90% of the question raised whilst driving. Thank you !!!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways I'm from Higham Ferrers originally, used to play Tarzan swinging off the ropes that we strung up in the old goods shed, about 72. All bloomin houses now, although RHTS have done as much as they can :)
Hi Another fantastic video, All I can say is what a waste, we should get back to the railway , it took men years to lay the track , build station's and at the stroke of a pen wiped out , it was a crime, place's cut off, bring it back , All the best Brian 😃
I often think about the people who worked on the construction when I see bits of abandoned infrastructure strewn about. Not that construction isn't hard work now, but the labour involved back then must have been something.
@Rediscovering Lost Railways, a really informative video of a bygone age of railways joining industrial towns and citadels. The correct pronounciation of ayot it actually spoken as eight. e.g Chiswick Ayot.(eight), Ayot Green 'Eight Green' and so on.
Glad you enjoyed the film! Yes I was concerned about how to pronounce it, which is why I asked a couple of locals there who gave me the pronunciation I use in the film - strange! Thanks for the tip!
"That is what is wrong with the world at present. It scraps its obsolete steam engines and dynamos; but it won't scrap its old prejudices ... and its old political constitutions. " - George Bernard Shaw, the character Undershaft in "Major Barbara" (1905)
Thanks for another great video, I’m not from the area covered in this film but I still appreciate the work gone into researching and creating it, it’s crazy that towns like Dunstable that really should have a rail connection lost both its stations, and lines that once served towns nearer to London lost their services, with our roads struggling to cope it makes us wish more hindsight had been used in the rail closures of the 60’s.
Thanks for your kind words once more - yes, it's a big old place and nothing to link it to the railway - I daresay a story replicated up and down the land!
Brought up in Bedfordshire, familiar with many places on the line, very impressed with the research, filming and soundtracks. Looking forward to the next video, thank you!
A great surprise to me living in Victoria Australia. I was born in Dunstable near the end of WW2. Our house looked out onto the railway with Blows Downs beyond. Watching the trains probably created my life-long interest in railways. We left in late 1949 to go to Glasgow in order to board a ship to Australia. My father often talked of the line and its close associations. He worked for the Diamond foundry in Luton for most of his life and early in his first marriage lived in Harpenden and commuted from there. His first wife died in about 1937. With his second wife, my mother, they set up home in Dunstable and he then commuted to Luton from there. I have started building a model railway , very loosely based on the trackplan of the two stations in Dunstable. Thank you for a great documentary, a pity my father is no longer alive or he would have found it most interesting, and would have set him reminiscing.
Of course it shouldn't have closed, but I wonder at passenger numbers in the sixties. Surely someone filmed the last days in colour.... There is just one I've found, but I think the quality isn't up to you using it.
Some footage of the line came online the day I finished filming this and I asked the gentleman if I could employ his footage, but at this stage he was unable to do so, which I fully understand.
We have a 12 mile section of mainline track up in the Ribble Valley where there are more steam hauled passenger services than normal service trains despite the BR did away with steam services 55 years ago. The trains from Manchester all stop at Clitheroe and don't travel the 12 miles to Hellifield on the S & C where there is a platform for it.
Thank you for today’s tour into the past. It’s sad in some ways to see what they are today. But thankfully your videos open up the past to be seen again. Cheers mate, and thanks for your time showing this to the grateful audiences. I am one of those. ❤😊
I'm pretty sure the engine featured in the still from "Lady with a Lamp" was LION which 2 years later would feature in the Titfield Thunderbolt, the resemblance is uncanny.
Another fabulous explore and explain of what used to be. It sounds like that area really needs good transport links away from congested roads, so as with all these decisions, more short-sighted politicians who only know how to make themselves richer at the expense and inconvenience of everyone else. With all the abandoned lines countrywide, including the Great Central, all those track beds should have been protected for the future. If that one thing had been done, think what could be happening now. Thank you for another nostalgic look. Excellently produced as always!
This was a really interesting film. A rail link between these towns would definitely be useful. But with the best will in the world, I don’t think there would be enough demand to justify the capital costs of rebuilding the line.
A vital missing link. When the bus way was proposed, many people, including myself protested against it in favour of restoring the railway, which in my opinion would have served the whole area much better. Great film, thank you for making it.
another cracker of an episode... i wonder if the beeching reports or other circumstances that led to many lines closure... they would be running as strong as ever as they once did... unfortunately we'll never know
The passenger survey was conducted in the week of the February schools half term holiday. The ridership would likely be lowest at that point in the year. Many normally viable lines were caught up in the closure net. A transport minister with a road construction business didn’t help matters.
Hindsight is, indeed, a wonderful thing. I agree with the previous comment, no, it shouldn't have been closed... definitely an east/west route that should've remained open.
Very enjoyable portrait of a former cross-country railway. Apart from the Luton - Dunstable link, it seems to me doubtful that its likely usage would justify its reopening, in whole or in part. I tend to agree with your final judicious summing-up. I once walked the short section from Hertingfordbury to Hertford North. This is very pleasant for the most part, but your video shows that there are far more delights further West, with some very impressive bridges and station restorations. What a pity the stretch in Luton has become such an eyesore, instead of say a nature reserve, or small urban park. Thank you for a beautifully made video.
Luton Hoo station, and the nearby former Chiltern Green station on the MML, were immortalised in the classic N-gauge model railway layout "Chiltern Green" in the 1980's. It survives to this day at the Devon Railway Centre.
While so much has been lost I do feel a surge of joy every time I hear a station house has been saved and is in use as a private residence. Also really enjoying the film references..so many that we are going back to rewatch as many of the films we can.. it allows us to enjoy them more fully.❤
A very enjoyable video. One that sits prominently for me as I’m fairly local to WGC and Hertford. I’m looking forward to collaborating soon on a video about The Garden City Project, and these rail links play a vital part in Welwyn being built where it was.
Great video. I don't know about the eastern section, but I'm sure a rail connection between Milton Keynes and Luton/Dunstable would be well-used today. I've never been able to definitively confirm whether it's true, but I have read that the line between Dunstable and Luton never went through the formal, legal closure process - it was simply abandoned and a skeleton bus service instigated as a 'replacement'. Something similar happened in Watford - the Croxley Green branch line was 'temporarily' closed to passengers... when the alignment was physically severed by a new dual carriageway. Took another 6-7 years for the closure to be legally finalised.
Fascinating history. I worked at WGC decades ago for a couple of years and remember many of the names in the video. I once drove to Luton and back and it was difficult and I got lost in a small lane surrounded by fields. That was before internet and GPS. It'd have been much easier to have a rail link.😊
By the time of closure the ex-Hertford & Welwyn Railway 5 down trains and 6 up trains on week days with an extra train in Saturdays and no Sunday service. If was no better on the Hertford, Luton and Dunstable Railway witbu down trains amd 5 up trains between Hatfield and Dunstable and no Sunday service. The reason given by Disused Stations is the general down turn in passenger numbers experienced in the 1950s. What did help was the splitting of the line on nationalisation at Harpenden's down distant signal with BR(ER) responsible upto this point from Hatfield and the BR(MR) taking over, after September 1950 the boundary was shifted to Harpenden East station. Were the closures justifiable? They probably had good evidence for closure of both parts but this is not available online save for the Beeching Report maps. Would they be useful now 72 and 68 years later? Yes, but who could have been able to work this out? No one. They didn't even know that thebUK's economy was about to tank, almost completely.
Another delightfully crafted Betjemanesque and information-packed masterpiece (though I must comment that I thought the commentary seemed at times a little gabbled, with some unlikely unfamiliarity with the script. And I think I heard an 'outside of', and towards the end, a 'may' for a 'might', which spoilt your perfect grammar)
Great video. There is still a remaining yard mast round the back of the council offices in Dunstable the one remaining item from the old station there. Also the crossing keepers house on Billington Road, in Leighton Buzzard is still standing, but now a private residence.
Superbly narrated and photographed. Thank you. While I'd like to think rail could be restored, perhaps as LRT, I suspect the guided busway would get more "mileage" out of any groundswell of local efforts to restore public transit.
Thank you for this excellent video. Having moved to Hatfield in 1958 when I was 4 and stayed there as I grew up all of this is my old territory. I remember bits of it, Cole Green, Ayot, Welwyn, much of it lost forever now. How foolish we were to close cross country routes like this, just to save a few ££ at the time. I suppose it would cost about £100M or some absurd figure to restore it now!
East-west traffic from the Luton conurbation to Welwyn GC and Hertford does exist, as the busy Lower Luton Road and its buses show. But not enough to make a viable railway. Before the Guided busway, the cheapest option between Luton and Dunstable was a detached DMU line at £2m, but politics got in the way. The busway is well used but will.never justify onward extension to Leighton Buzzard. Cyclists and walkers on the other hand can enjoy a great majority of the old route with nature to the fore.
Thanks for your thoughts - yes I suspect the reinstatement of a railway is next to nil - though I prefer railways I can see that at least the busway offers a middle way
Excellent, your films get better and better! The Sewell Greenway is on of my favourite walks locally, and I see how it now fits into a bigger picture. So much research, well done!!
Well done again for another cracking, insightful and well produced video. Would love to see you head down to Kent/Sussex to document the partially defunct Tunbridge Wells-Lewes Wealden Line railway and the perennially ongoing calls, studies and campaigns to fully reinstate it. Hope there are many more videos to come.
Absolutely outstanding! You should be proud of your work which is of superb broadcast quality, often exceeding some. There are so many lines in the UK that should not have closed, or should have had their infrastructure preserved for possible future use. As usual short term planning and greed wins and the chances of most of these lost, useful routes are gone forever. Anyway, keep up your brilliant work, it is much appreciated.
I believe a video covering the array of lost railways that span over east Sussex and into west Sussex. The cuckoo line, tonbridge-three bridges line, uckfield-lewes, bluebell railway and the spa valley railway would be interesting. So many abandoned lines in such a close radius.
I do enjoy your videos; there is something fascinating about disused railways. My interest in the subject was probably honed by this particular railway, in which I have a special interest as a local resident, and which provided a useful service to the area as well as a much needed east-west link between the three main lines (isn’t it four if you walk a short distance in Hertford). I remember traveling on the line in the early 60s, from Harpenden East to visit my Grandmother in Hadley Wood, and being disappointed that the engine was diesel and not steam powered. How could they keep a bit of the St Albans Abbey line open but close this one? Why did they close the Hatfield to Abbey part of that line? With hindsight these decisions should have looked at so much more than just cost.
When the Watford to St Albans railway was built there were plans to extend it to Dunstable. Had it been built, given the the Watford to St Albans railway remains and thrives one wonders if Dunstable would have still ben rail connected today. Even with a connection to Leighton Buzzard.
Those of us resident in Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire are badly served by east - west links since the Beeching era, noting that passenger services on this line were withdrawn in the 50s suggesting poor loadings. Every time I want to head north I check out the train timetables and sigh; via London is the option, expensive, time consuming and a poor alternative to the car, sadly. Thank you for the film.
Your vidoes are beautifully presented, and the mix of photos, current-day videos, with the maps and your narration, make these a real pleasure. Please keep up the excellent work
Excellent video as always. As with many others, the closure was probably the right thing due to the lack of traffic. Sadly I think its way to expensive to reinstate this and would probably not get enough use to warrant that cost.
Another gem of a video, so well researched and produced. Definitely another line that should be still in operation. A town like Dunstable should be served by rail. Although I drive coaches, I dont rate guided bus ways. If we had the rail network before Beeching, the roads would be far less crowded.
It never should have closed. It linked the Great Eastern main line, Great Northern mainline, the Midland and the West coast mainline. Quite apart from Luton airport!
My grandfather and father worked at the Blackbridge land fill site, this received rubbish from London by train and was the last piece of the line to close when the A1 was extended as they were not prepared to put in a bridge over a single track line.
@@RediscoveringLostRailways I think that the A1M Welwyn by pass opened in 1972/3 so the last remaining part of the Welwyn to Luton line would have closed a little before this. From memory I believe in the latter stages of this site they received two trains a day coming from North London.
Thank you once again for a great video. It is always so sad to see closed railways as an enthusiast, but as a professional railway consultant my opinion is that this has no chance as a rail reopening - too much alignment has been lost, and the scale of demolition required to reinstate it would result in an insuperable level of opposition. Even the original decision to close might have been correct- it was an orbital route where almost all of the significant locations served already have a rail service going in the direction where most of the traffic goes- London. The end of wagonload freight probably meant it’s demise. I also agree with the negative comments about guided bus - a technology looking for an application- apart from a few specific applications where passing clearances are too tight, it does nothing that a a dedicated busway cannot do at much lower cost. But thanks once again for a great film.
I randomly came acroos this video and found the whole journey of the old lines fascinating. Now aged 77, I recall as a young teenager standing in the car park at WGC station, together with fellow trainspotters, waiting for the arrival of one of the first powerful diesel engines. A station porterwas also entralled by the sight of the enormous engine as it halted on the Northbound platform. The porter was pulling a 4 wheeled cart loaded with goods and had begun to cross the line that was the spur that ran from WGC to Luton. At the end of the platform there stood a signal box which blocked his view of the branch line which wended its way around the box. Our group of lads stood next to the fence and heard a train approaching from Luton. The station worker couldn't see or hear it as the noise of the diesel was very loud. He and his cart still stood on the branch line. We saw the danger and began to shout but to no avail. When he finally heard our cries he saw the approachiong train and tried to pull the cart out of its path. It was too late and the steam engine struck him and the cart which exploded in a shower of splinters and parcels. As the train passed us and came to a halt, other station staff came running along the platform and jumped on the track but they couldn't save the unfortunate porter. Our little group just stood open mouthed until we were shooed away. The image of this event still burns in my memory.
Fascinating. I remember there used to be a train from Hatfield to Dunstable which was withdrawn by Beeching or earlier. Trains going west from Hertford are well before my time.
Excellent. A really interesting video, incredibly well presented, and an insight into hoe useful the re-opening of this East - West corridor would be, connecting three main lines.
Should this railway have closed? Share your thoughts below! Might you consider supporting my channel even more? www.buymeacoffee.com/rediscovering
No it is so badly needed especially for the Airport
@Rediscovering Lost Railways, its primarily down to one of 2 factors firstly passenger uptake on these rural lines and government transport subsidy cut (laterly privatisation of UK railways). Nice if these vintage lunes were to reopen I believe the stretches on this video have become cycleways and guided busways.
Excellent. I’m from Dunstable. Too much has gone, too many impediments, too much development has taken place for it to be restored. But no it shouldn’t have closed. Being so close to London it should have been seen that these places would develop and would need interconnection. But hindsight always gives wisdom.
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can - and thank you for your views which I know are widely shared!
I'm from Luton and the old Bridge near Gypsy Lane was removed somewhere between 2005 and 2010
As i remember the road being closed so that it can be removed
( my mum worked in gypsy lane)
@@harryjohnson9215It was removed in 2010 along with the bridges at Church Street, Skimpot Lane and Guildford Street to make way for the Busway.
I grew up in Dunstable. Back in 1980s there was a push for the reopening of the (then still extant as a freight line to the cement works and Waterlows printing factory) rail line between Dunstable and Luton. This was known as the "Association for Dunstable Area Passenger Trains" (ADAPT). They even ran a rail tour along the line. For a while it looked promising, and indeed "Dunstable" was supposedly added to the destination blinds on some of the new stock bought by BR in the late 1980s in preparation for the reopening to passengers. Sadly it was not to be - privatisation of BR distracted attention and resources, the cement works and Waterlows print works both closed and there was no need for the freight branch either. For a while it lingered on as a potential heritage railway venture but after some rather acrimonious wrangling, the busway promoters got the upper hand and it was all swept away. It is now very, very, very unlikely to ever reappear, even if the full line detailed in this video would link the three mainlines to London.
I can remember going for a Sunday morning walk with my Dad as a young teenager in the early-mid 1980s and we both wanted to see what the Dunstable North station site looked like so we walked down Westfield Road and hopped into the site via one of the many gaps in the fencing. It was a waste land, but you still see some bits and pieces if you knew where to look (and Dad did as he'd used it when it was still open). This was just before the council came along and bulldozed the site to build their swanky new offices. Though after they'd built the offices you could still spot the odd bit of railway infrastructure left in the "no mans land" on the edges beyond their car parks. I don't know if those are still there or not some 30+ years later.
I used to also walk to/from school along Brewers Hill road and back then you could still see rails where the crossing point used to be, with the line on the north side of the road bought by the AC Delco factory and used as a long linear car park for their workers.
One positive side of the busway was that it did provide an excellent traffic free shared foot/cycle path alongside. Very handy for getting to the L&D hospital from Dunstable for example.
Many thanks for sharing your valuable and evocative memories of this line - it seems like it was a missed opportunity to reinstate it!
Profit truly destroys all good things.
Great video - thank you.
Having lived near Hertford for the first 30 years of my life, I can only imagine how useful such an east-west link would have been. There is virtually no east-west public transport in Hertfordshire (something HCC is now trying to right with some bus services) - but how lovely this railway would have been. Have cycled along the Cole Green Way many times!
Also, let's not forget there was a link between Hertford Cowbridge and the Hertford East branch - although only used by freight - but with possibilities of connections to the West Anglia Main Line, Stratford and Liverpool Street. Again - what a shame this useful link has been consigned to history.
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can - and agreed, east-west links nationwide are pretty shoddy!
I was a Bengeo lad. And Cowbridge survived into the early 80s. The trackbed parallel to port vale and the bridge over port vale also remained in reasonable condition. As did the spur from the Ecml serving ICI at WGC. As others say in the last 30-40 years too much of the trackbed has been built on.
Irony is that in the 80s talk of reopening focussed on how to remove the landfill west of cole green ...a minor issue today
The line was also a frequent cross country run for us Richard Hale boys... only when weather was really bad rendering the normal mud runs impassable 😂
My brother and I recently speculated that, with the resurgence of tramways (light-rail), had such a movement occurred when even the experiment of dmus had failed to save rural railways, a tramway could have been a saviour. The absence of signalling and all the heavy infrastructure that made such lines a money pit, and the frequency of tramcars would have been very welcome, especially the use of street running where needed. Sadly, the motor lobby had doomed the old style trams in the official mind from the 1930s right through the 1950s and only using the term 'light rail' brought them back. EU Infrastructure grants have also been taken away from us.
I think there's much to support this view - thanks for sharing!
That just what Manchester Metro Link did, it reused BR lines and it not technically a tram system but a light rail system, the reason why Metro Link platforms are so high in the centre of Manchester is because they are the same high as BR's as they reused stations and track, Thomas the Tank Engine once escaped from the East Lancs Railway down to Manchester on the Metro Link Lines as there was and still is a direct track connection.
Railways were expensive to run because of signalling. At the time of Beeching most lines had a signal box at each station, and each junction. Each box required a minimum of two signalmen to cover the working day. The only way to ensure people paid for their train service was to have a manned entrance/exit point - for all the time that people might turn up. The signalling infrastructure, being so vital to safety, required expensive maintenance.
The cost of running a line such as this must have been enormous when compared with the revenue. From a simple financial perspective one can see justification for closure.
BUT (this angers me) lots of money and effort had gone into developing wayleave, yet tiny bits of land along the way was sold off, thus increasing entropy with no significant gain. The lines should have been placed into hibernation as it would have been obvious to any thinking (non-selfish) person that technology would develop and reduce the cost of operating the line.
In answer to you question "Should this railway have closed", the answer is at the time probably _yes_ but the wayleave should have been retained so that the line could be reopened when technology made it financially viable.
Many thanks for your thoughts and comment - you're right, the railways of old demanded substantial manpower etc which must have cost a fortune!
Precisely put. These are wonderfully informative and evocative videos. Lines mothballed from the 1980s onwards are now realistic candidates for reopening but too much was lost in the past - a tragic waste of magnificent engineering. Either this route or Hatfield to St Albans should have been safeguarded as east-west links for future use. HCC is now looking at possible tram/bus links. I have mixed feelings about the guided busway (as in Cambridge). One problem was the nature of the junction with the Midland/Thameslink route but surely not insurmountable.
Just what I needed on a Sunday morning. Your almost Betjeman like delivery is wonderful. Thank you :)
Thank you for that very great compliment - as it happens, I am deep into all things Betjeman at the moment as I prepare to revisit the sites he detailed in his peerless 'Metroland' film...so stay tuned for 'Metroland: Revisited'...coming soon...
I did enjoy that film, if a somewhat sad story!
Bittersweet, perhaps? Many thanks indeed!
Thanks for this great video. So many memories. We visited Wheathampstead station last year where my wife's grandparents first lived. Her great grandmother used to visit them when they lived near Ayot on the Ayot station. We walked the Ayot green way a few years ago. We lived in Luton for a while and remember the plans for the guided bus way. Such a shame that this east west route was lost, how long would it take to drive from Hertford to Leighton Buzzard now?
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
I'd wager it's about an hour to drive between Leighton Buzzard and Hertford nowadays
Vandalism on a massive scale and the country is paying the cost today as the motor car, bus and lorry are now out of favour. However, those in Government at the time milked motor transportation for all it was worth making money out of the process.
Many thanks for your thoughts, which I know are widely shared!
That's not the entire story. Let's see. First there were lines and stations that never made money even for the original builders. Attimore Halt springs to mind of a station that was a waste of money - open as it was for a mere 2 months (opened May 1905 only to be closed on 1st July 1905). But what is worse for your argument is the fact that the general public wanted to buy cars with the ending of petrol rationing. Remember that between the ending of petrol rationing and 1964 car ownership increased at a steady 10% per year. These new car owners demanded that the government do something to reduce congestion other than banning their newly found freedom. So the government responded and built new roads.
So far, no one has produced any credible evidence that shows that Marples received any financial advantage from being in government and a road builder. There are lots of allegations but no credible evidence of guilt.
The evidence was he didn't pay 30 years tax, also he was in office when another company put in a lower tender than his company for the construction of the Hammersmith Flyover but engineers from his office endorsed his much higher bid and encouraged London County Council to reject the lower bid.
Then there was the undervalued property portfolio etc....
@@Scots_Diesel these are allegations not evidence. He was only made Transport Minister in October 1959 and the contract for the Hammersmith Flyover was awarded in January 1960. It was the Ministry 's engineered that rejected the lower tender. But you haven't shown me any evidence that Marples used his influence on the engineers.
Whilst his tax dodging is evidence of corruption this covers a period from before he entered Parliament until when he lost his seat in 1974. But is not related to road building and the closure of the railways.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 most of the evidence was conveniently "lost" an as per usual cover up from government.
He was also going to sell properties under value to an offshore company who would refurbish them and on sell for 2 and a half times thier money making marbles only liable to 30% thier original value and the offshore 2% stamp duty.
The firm evidence has been suppressed for years like the prostitute story that should have appeared in the denning report into the Profumo affair. So whilst there isn't full on evidence of any wrongdoing there is a fair bit of circumstantial evidence to the contrary.
It's doubtful that any government with any sense would ever force road freight onto rail primarily for the sheer volume of tax etc collected off commercial vehicles either directly or indirectly, plus the vast numbers employed in that sector.
Railways should look at the essence of beeching fast block trains of bulk goods, intercity/long distance/cross country, commuter and selected public service routes (northern scotland/west wales).
In saying that, not all closures we're justified others most certainly were.
I went to Ashton Middle School in the late 80s and early 90s and we used to do PE football and rugby in the playing fields that runs along 'dog kennel walk' (now a bowling alley!) which crosses the line between the two Dunstable stops. I was amazed when midway through a lesson a full sized diesel locomotive went past running light engine! It would have been one of the last times any train passed along this line as I never saw another and it quickly became overgrown after then (we used to walk along it, along the back of factories and over the bridge by the now McDonalds/Wickes.
Wonderful memories! Thanks for sharing!
Great video but these are always so depressing. It's not a Matt of hindsight; it should have been obvious that these towns needed links to the outside world and many of them would be much better off today for it.
Thank you - lots of people on here who share these views!
Absolutely fascinating documentary (as always!). You have a habit of uncovering interesting gems, such as the old movie links, and I wonder how many more are hidden in the background stories of other former railways. Should this one reopen? East-West links post-Beeching have been weak, and arguably would benefit connecting radial routes out of London. But one wonders whether the 'missing link' you've so eloquently described would withstand the business case rigour, and survive decades of preparatory campaigning and planning, that the East-West Rail (Oxford-Cambridge) scheme, currently under construction, has successfully endured. Thank you for an excellently compiled and narrated documentary.
Thank you for your warm, generous remarks about my film - and I think what you say about the business case has it exact - there's just no momentum in government to get behind the building of railways
it always astounds me how in-depth your videos are. great work, as usual - can't wait for the next one!
Thank you - it is a labour of love - do share far and wide if you can!
Fantastic film! Been waiting years for this featurette and I'm thrilled to see it.
This disused line is one that only gets more and more relevant with time as more people use these towns and villages to commute to London, not to mention Luton Airport which an east-west rail line would make huge use of. (A major oversight in my view as to why it should never have been closed, given the growth of cheap air travel that was happening in the 60s.).
For this reason alone, I think at least some of the line may one day be rebuilt in some form, especially as Luton Airport continues to expand (to the disquiet of many).
P.S. The fact too that Hertford now has two stations, with no connection between them, is another anomaly left behind by the closure.
So pleased the film did not disappoint! I think you're right about the need for connections such as this, especially with the airport in mind. Do share the film far and wide if you can!
I was just going to mention The Lady of the Lamp and Lion's appearance as the loco. I never travelled this line but did come into Hatfield GN from St.Albans on a 'special' and visited Bute Street when open for goods. Just imagine all the signs up from NIMBYs if ever a far-sighted government decided to reopen it! These lines should have been retained as a strategic reserve, even if closed in the days of motoring, but do governments here ever think beyond the next general election?
Many on here undoubtedly share your view - thanks for your comment!
I remember this route when it was still a railway line, I'm 73. In the 1950s it had steam trains and I remember how small the Bute Street engines looked compared to the Midland mainline trains were.
A couple of years ago I was cycling along the part of this route from Luton to Batford with my Grandsons. We stopped to watch a Red Kite that was wheeling and soaring above us. I told them that my Grandparents would have seen steam trains chugging along this line but they would not have seen Red Kites here as they were extinct in this area during their life times.
Red Kite re-introduction has been such a success but Railway re-introductions are an altogether different proposition.
Wonderful memories - thanks so much for your comment!
Another excellent film! I also love the sound effects, very innovative! ❤😊👍
Thank you - I do enjoy adding those in!
The railway shouldn't close because they need services to Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North from Leighton Buzzard
No doubt many agree with you!
When the railway left, so did all hope of prosperity for Dunstable. Whilst all the other rail linked towns in the area have thrived, Luton, Leighton, Harpenden, St Albans, Berkhampstead etc, Dunstable slowly fades away into obscurity, starved of the investment that London commuters brought to its neighbours. A collection of faded buildings and faded memories of a once pretty and vibrant little market town. Now all that is left is a legacy of grubby 60s architecture, terrible traffic management and empty shops on a sad and essentially useless high street. "There used to be a town over there"
I don't know much about the town, but I know enough to appreciate it has seen better days - a railway may help reverse some of these fortunes, but I fear there's more to it...thanks for your thoughts!
fantastic presentation. thank you very much
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
good morning , what a lovely surprise , best wishes from lancashire
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways always best to share mate
Superb video again!
Always a real pleasure to watch.
Thank you for the credit.
As I have said before, no railway should have closed.
I will leave it at that! 👍🙂
Thank YOU for your generous support and kind words, as always
I think possibly reopening the line between Leighton Buzzard and Dunstable would be a smart move. The rest of the line I fear will stay as it is currently a slowly fading memory of the past where steam was supreme. Once again a brilliant and informative film I'm already looking forward to the next one knowing it'll be more than worth the wait
Thank you indeed and I agree with your assessment of the route's prospects
There was whispers to relink between toddington and leagrave to Leighton buzzard. Would have been a good diversion between Luton and Bedford when things go wrong, even moreso with the planned rail hub outside luton
Thank you so much! 😊 NO stations should have closed! Stupid politicians knew there was a post war population growth and should have anticipated 1) building and attendant transport need 2) that not everyone could afford cars 3) as correctly predicted in Titfield Thunderbolt, lanes would be clogged with polluting traffic. The lines should have been kept open at least for goods .now dangerous lorries rattle through the countryside. May Beeching stand forever at a platform, waiting for a train that never comes.. Maybe at Fraserburgh in the freezing wind and snow on a Sunday evening..
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
Beeching was just doing what he was told. It is the government and ministers of the day who were the real villains.
The railway network started contracting in WW1 and carried on through the decades years before the Beeching report. The railways had little competition before the advent of the internal combustion engine and as the number of buses, cars and lorries increased it took it toll on railways which were infrequent, slow and expensive to run. In many parts of the country there were duplicate stations provided by different railways companies and track too. Why would you keep it all open ? Makes no financial sense and who would subsidise it all. Please read some decent histories of the closure of the railways and stop believing in the nostalgic guff that is peddled!
I have just googled getting from Hertford to Dunstable on Google maps tomorrow morning at 10am. You can do it in 40 minutes by car or about 1 hour 50 minutes by public transport. So there are viable alternatives now. For those who want it to be reopened I would ask a) how much would it cost b) how long would it take to reopen and c) for the effort is it justified ? There might be alternative routes which could be considered plus use of trams!
@Andrew Long ...yes but that's 40 minutes of car pollution!
Great vid mate. Ex local which makes it most fascinating. Wicked sweet awesome!
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for taking the time to say so!
Thank you for the Slow Train reference.
The most heartbreakingly sad song ever written.
My pleasure 🙏
As we head towards November, your documentary is like being beside the glow of a roaring fire with a glass of single malt. Absolute heaven! More please!
Gosh, that's so kind of you! I try to upload every few months so I can keep the quality just so. If I made a film every week or even each month it would be a poor show, so I hope you don't mind waiting!
Not at all. Each video is absolutely worth waiting for. Quality over quantity each and every time.. I completely agree with where you are coming from.
A touch of nostalgia, I walked all these lines in the early 80s, somewhat different now!.
I bet it is!
Just amazing as usual.
Thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
Awesome. Love your videos. It's just what I enjoy doing myself. Looking for signs of a distance past. 👍
Thank you so much!
Wow... an amazing film of a much missed rail line !!. If only we hadn't been so quick to "get rid" of these lines. That one would be so useful and convenient for so many people to make links both east and west. So short sighted !!
Thank you so much! Do share far and wide if you can!
As always...amazing production values, music and narration. Thank you so much.
Thanks ever so much - really appreciated!
Here it is finally: 'my line'. And a typically thorough and excellent job as expected.
So glad you feel I've done it justice - do share far and wide if you can!
The primary loser here is Dunstable with no railway connection and, at times, some horrendous traffic. I can imagine that a link to a mainline railway would be very beneficial, but there has so much that has been lost, it's tricky to see where it would run. Probably a link to Luton would make the most sense as, it's in the right direction for journeys to London and I suspect many more people journey from Dunstable to Luton than to Leighton Buzzard. Of course such a thing would mean commandeering the guided bus route as well as a lot of other work.
I see much less benefit from Luton to Hertford as it would just be a very lightly used East-West route, as it was in past life. The "East West Rail" route, along what is much of the old "Varsity Line (Oxford-Cambridge), assuming it's all built, will be a lot more beneficial and ought to join up a lot of major radial routes out of London. The Oxford-Bedford part was due to be opened in 2025 (in theory) and, starting from Oxford, joins up with the mainline from Marylebone to Birmingham, then with the West Coast Mainline (that runs through Leighton Buzzard) Midland Mainline at Bedford (that runs through Luton). The further proposed extensions will carry it out to a junction with the East Coast Mainline (which runs through Welwyn) and then onto Cambridge on the West Anglia Main Line. There are then links further East from Cambridge.
If anything is the missing link, then it is East West Rail, not the Hertford, Luton & Dunstable railway (noting the issue about Dunstable).
Many thanks for your thoughts and comment 👍
If they had closed but preserved permanent way / track bed it could have been relatively easy to re-open with changes in modern traction, same goes for a lot of routes closed
Would you suggest diesel? Battery electric? Mains electric? Steam?
Yes, I think you might be right
The East West Rail project is slowly ticking along further north, but maybe something similar to Croydon Tram Link or The Docklands Light Railway may work. Where laying down tracks is impossible, maybe have a tram/DLR vehicle leaving the original route, particularly in Dunstable, where it can travel through the main centre. Buckingham is another town that could do with a spur from Winslow (it's the county's main town after all)?
Agreed on all counts!
I started my British Rail career in Luton Crescent Road Yard in 1976 and the railway line at Bute Street to Dunstable was still in use working Oil and Cement trains between the two.
Always remember a tragic accident on the line in 77/78 when the locomotives trundling back light from Dunstable one dark wet winters morning ran a couple over using the line as a short cut, it was the days before locos had headlights and the Driver said all they saw was a flash of an umbrella and the couple were gone. Will never forget the Driver, Guard and Second Man sitting in our mess room not long after it had happened. Very sad day.
Many thanks for your thoughts and memories!
Thank you so much for this. For years and years I would drive around this area on gigs, and would pass over and under various old railway bridges. Indeed including the A1 and M1. This video explains 90% of the question raised whilst driving. Thank you !!!
You're very welcome!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways I'm from Higham Ferrers originally, used to play Tarzan swinging off the ropes that we strung up in the old goods shed, about 72. All bloomin houses now, although RHTS have done as much as they can :)
Perhaps we should get ourselves some pickaxes, and start doing to roads what the automotive industry and government is doing to our railways.
Let's get to work!
Good morning sir.
I would like to thank you my friend for posting your latest film for us all to enjoy.
All the very best.
☕👍
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
Liking your slighly cynical sense of humour too. Great video.
I must confess my heart wasn't completely in this one...
Hi Another fantastic video, All I can say is what a waste, we should get back to the railway , it took men years to lay the track , build station's and at the stroke of a pen wiped out , it was a crime, place's cut off, bring it back , All the best Brian 😃
Many thanks indeed for your views, which I know are widely shared!
I often think about the people who worked on the construction when I see bits of abandoned infrastructure strewn about. Not that construction isn't hard work now, but the labour involved back then must have been something.
Well worth waiting for,thank you.
I'm so glad you think so, thank you
Another excellent film many thanks. The Luton Dunstable section should certainly not have closed.
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways Already shared it with several people. Please keep your excellent films coming 😁
The bus way should never have opened and met great opposition. The link would be most useful and would feed Luton Airport. It should reopen.
Many thanks for your thoughts
@Rediscovering Lost Railways, a really informative video of a bygone age of railways joining industrial towns and citadels.
The correct pronounciation of ayot it actually spoken as eight. e.g Chiswick Ayot.(eight), Ayot Green 'Eight Green' and so on.
Glad you enjoyed the film! Yes I was concerned about how to pronounce it, which is why I asked a couple of locals there who gave me the pronunciation I use in the film - strange! Thanks for the tip!
"That is what is wrong with the world at present. It scraps its obsolete steam engines and dynamos; but it won't scrap its old prejudices ... and its old political constitutions. " - George Bernard Shaw, the character Undershaft in "Major Barbara" (1905)
Wonderful quotation...wish I'd incorporated it into the film!
Thanks for another great video, I’m not from the area covered in this film but I still appreciate the work gone into researching and creating it, it’s crazy that towns like Dunstable that really should have a rail connection lost both its stations, and lines that once served towns nearer to London lost their services, with our roads struggling to cope it makes us wish more hindsight had been used in the rail closures of the 60’s.
Thanks for your kind words once more - yes, it's a big old place and nothing to link it to the railway - I daresay a story replicated up and down the land!
A useful link in it's day but maybe now duplicated by the slowly reopening East West Rail line out to Cambridge from Bletchley and Oxford?
Yes, maybe! The government's stomach for the Oxford Cambridge project is pretty lacklustre, so I fear this one would not fair well!
really enjoyed that 👍. A lost line i didn’t know existed. well done with your usual excellent work my friend 👍
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks ever so much, Neil!
Brought up in Bedfordshire, familiar with many places on the line, very impressed with the research, filming and soundtracks. Looking forward to the next video, thank you!
I've always felt that if I meet with the approval of long term residents, then it must have worked out OK 👍
A great surprise to me living in Victoria Australia. I was born in Dunstable near the end of WW2. Our house looked out onto the railway with Blows Downs beyond. Watching the trains probably created my life-long interest in railways. We left in late 1949 to go to Glasgow in order to board a ship to Australia. My father often talked of the line and its close associations. He worked for the Diamond foundry in Luton for most of his life and early in his first marriage lived in Harpenden and commuted from there. His first wife died in about 1937. With his second wife, my mother, they set up home in Dunstable and he then commuted to Luton from there.
I have started building a model railway , very loosely based on the trackplan of the two stations in Dunstable.
Thank you for a great documentary, a pity my father is no longer alive or he would have found it most interesting, and would have set him reminiscing.
Thank you for sharing your valuable memories of this line, I'm so glad you enjoyed the film
Very professional video thank you. I went to college in Hertford but I did not know about the closed line.
My pleasure 🙏
A very enjoyable video very well filmed very interesting history of the line looking forward to your next video
Glad you enjoyed it - many thanks indeed!
Brilliantly researched, shot and narrated as usual. Thanks for your efforts!
My pleasure, thank you - do share far and wide if you can!
Of course it shouldn't have closed, but I wonder at passenger numbers in the sixties.
Surely someone filmed the last days in colour.... There is just one I've found, but I think the quality isn't up to you using it.
Some footage of the line came online the day I finished filming this and I asked the gentleman if I could employ his footage, but at this stage he was unable to do so, which I fully understand.
We have a 12 mile section of mainline track up in the Ribble Valley where there are more steam hauled passenger services than normal service trains despite the BR did away with steam services 55 years ago. The trains from Manchester all stop at Clitheroe and don't travel the 12 miles to Hellifield on the S & C where there is a platform for it.
Many thanks for your thoughts and comment - I bet this is not the only place where heritage services outnumber mainline traffic!
Fantastic thanks for the effort
My pleasure, thank you!
Thank you for this well researched enjoyable sadness.
My pleasure 🙏
Thank you for today’s tour into the past. It’s sad in some ways to see what they are today. But thankfully your videos open up the past to be seen again. Cheers mate, and thanks for your time showing this to the grateful audiences. I am one of those. ❤😊
My pleasure - thank you for you warm and generous remarks about my film(s)!
I'm pretty sure the engine featured in the still from "Lady with a Lamp" was LION which 2 years later would feature in the Titfield Thunderbolt, the resemblance is uncanny.
I couldn't say for sure, but you're right - it certainly looks like it!
Another fabulous explore and explain of what used to be. It sounds like that area really needs good transport links away from congested roads, so as with all these decisions, more short-sighted politicians who only know how to make themselves richer at the expense and inconvenience of everyone else. With all the abandoned lines countrywide, including the Great Central, all those track beds should have been protected for the future. If that one thing had been done, think what could be happening now. Thank you for another nostalgic look. Excellently produced as always!
Thank you indeed - I know many on here share your views!
Excellent video as always 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thank you
Thank you so much!
This was a really interesting film. A rail link between these towns would definitely be useful. But with the best will in the world, I don’t think there would be enough demand to justify the capital costs of rebuilding the line.
Many thanks indeed for your thoughts and comment 👍
A vital missing link. When the bus way was proposed, many people, including myself protested against it in favour of restoring the railway, which in my opinion would have served the whole area much better. Great film, thank you for making it.
My pleasure 🙏
another cracker of an episode... i wonder if the beeching reports or other circumstances that led to many lines closure... they would be running as strong as ever as they once did... unfortunately we'll never know
Many thanks indeed!
The passenger survey was conducted in the week of the February schools half term holiday. The ridership would likely be lowest at that point in the year. Many normally viable lines were caught up in the closure net. A transport minister with a road construction business didn’t help matters.
Hindsight is, indeed, a wonderful thing. I agree with the previous comment, no, it shouldn't have been closed... definitely an east/west route that should've remained open.
Many thanks indeed, Andrew!
Very enjoyable portrait of a former cross-country railway. Apart from the Luton - Dunstable link, it seems to me doubtful that its likely usage would justify its reopening, in whole or in part. I tend to agree with your final judicious summing-up. I once walked the short section from Hertingfordbury to Hertford North. This is very pleasant for the most part, but your video shows that there are far more delights further West, with some very impressive bridges and station restorations. What a pity the stretch in Luton has become such an eyesore, instead of say a nature reserve, or small urban park. Thank you for a beautifully made video.
Many thanks for your comment, thoughts and kind words about my film!
Luton Hoo station, and the nearby former Chiltern Green station on the MML, were immortalised in the classic N-gauge model railway layout "Chiltern Green" in the 1980's. It survives to this day at the Devon Railway Centre.
Many thanks for this - good to know
I've hugely enjoyed a number of your videos, for which I'm extremely grateful indeed.Do you have a website? Many thanks, Kieron Heath
Thank you very much! In answer, no, I do not have one - my channel is my website if you take my meaning - my next film will be out shortly!
While so much has been lost I do feel a surge of joy every time I hear a station house has been saved and is in use as a private residence.
Also really enjoying the film references..so many that we are going back to rewatch as many of the films we can.. it allows us to enjoy them more fully.❤
So glad you enjoyed the film and lost railways, as I do!
A very enjoyable video. One that sits prominently for me as I’m fairly local to WGC and Hertford. I’m looking forward to collaborating soon on a video about The Garden City Project, and these rail links play a vital part in Welwyn being built where it was.
Thank you and best of luck with your film!
Great video.
I don't know about the eastern section, but I'm sure a rail connection between Milton Keynes and Luton/Dunstable would be well-used today.
I've never been able to definitively confirm whether it's true, but I have read that the line between Dunstable and Luton never went through the formal, legal closure process - it was simply abandoned and a skeleton bus service instigated as a 'replacement'. Something similar happened in Watford - the Croxley Green branch line was 'temporarily' closed to passengers... when the alignment was physically severed by a new dual carriageway. Took another 6-7 years for the closure to be legally finalised.
Thank you for your thoughts, comment and kind words about my film!
Fascinating history. I worked at WGC decades ago for a couple of years and remember many of the names in the video. I once drove to Luton and back and it was difficult and I got lost in a small lane surrounded by fields. That was before internet and GPS. It'd have been much easier to have a rail link.😊
Really glad you enjoyed the film and thank you for sharing your memories!
By the time of closure the ex-Hertford & Welwyn Railway 5 down trains and 6 up trains on week days with an extra train in Saturdays and no Sunday service. If was no better on the Hertford, Luton and Dunstable Railway witbu down trains amd 5 up trains between Hatfield and Dunstable and no Sunday service. The reason given by Disused Stations is the general down turn in passenger numbers experienced in the 1950s.
What did help was the splitting of the line on nationalisation at Harpenden's down distant signal with BR(ER) responsible upto this point from Hatfield and the BR(MR) taking over, after September 1950 the boundary was shifted to Harpenden East station.
Were the closures justifiable? They probably had good evidence for closure of both parts but this is not available online save for the Beeching Report maps. Would they be useful now 72 and 68 years later? Yes, but who could have been able to work this out? No one. They didn't even know that thebUK's economy was about to tank, almost completely.
Many thanks for your thoughts and insights
Another delightfully crafted Betjemanesque and information-packed masterpiece (though I must comment that I thought the commentary seemed at times a little gabbled, with some unlikely unfamiliarity with the script. And I think I heard an 'outside of', and towards the end, a 'may' for a 'might', which spoilt your perfect grammar)
It's entirely possible, I was losing the will in making this one by then end! But I'll take the compliments! 😀
Great video. There is still a remaining yard mast round the back of the council offices in Dunstable the one remaining item from the old station there. Also the crossing keepers house on Billington Road, in Leighton Buzzard is still standing, but now a private residence.
I wish I had seen it! So glad you enjoyed the film, do share far and wide if you can!
There is also the brickwork for the old turntable well located there as well...
Superbly narrated and photographed. Thank you. While I'd like to think rail could be restored, perhaps as LRT, I suspect the guided busway would get more "mileage" out of any groundswell of local efforts to restore public transit.
Thank you for this excellent video. Having moved to Hatfield in 1958 when I was 4 and stayed there as I grew up all of this is my old territory. I remember bits of it, Cole Green, Ayot, Welwyn, much of it lost forever now. How foolish we were to close cross country routes like this, just to save a few ££ at the time. I suppose it would cost about £100M or some absurd figure to restore it now!
Many thanks for sharing your wonderful memories of the line!
East-west traffic from the Luton conurbation to Welwyn GC and Hertford does exist, as the busy Lower Luton Road and its buses show. But not enough to make a viable railway. Before the Guided busway, the cheapest option between Luton and Dunstable was a detached DMU line at £2m, but politics got in the way. The busway is well used but will.never justify onward extension to Leighton Buzzard. Cyclists and walkers on the other hand can enjoy a great majority of the old route with nature to the fore.
Thanks for your thoughts - yes I suspect the reinstatement of a railway is next to nil - though I prefer railways I can see that at least the busway offers a middle way
Excellent, your films get better and better! The Sewell Greenway is on of my favourite walks locally, and I see how it now fits into a bigger picture.
So much research, well done!!
Many thanks!
Well done again for another cracking, insightful and well produced video. Would love to see you head down to Kent/Sussex to document the partially defunct Tunbridge Wells-Lewes Wealden Line railway and the perennially ongoing calls, studies and campaigns to fully reinstate it. Hope there are many more videos to come.
I'd be delighted to! I really want to explore what remains of the Hawkhurst branch and the Elham Valley line!
Absolutely outstanding! You should be proud of your work which is of superb broadcast quality, often exceeding some.
There are so many lines in the UK that should not have closed, or should have had their infrastructure preserved for possible future use.
As usual short term planning and greed wins and the chances of most of these lost, useful routes are gone forever.
Anyway, keep up your brilliant work, it is much appreciated.
Wow, thank you! Many more films to come!
I believe a video covering the array of lost railways that span over east Sussex and into west Sussex. The cuckoo line, tonbridge-three bridges line, uckfield-lewes, bluebell railway and the spa valley railway would be interesting. So many abandoned lines in such a close radius.
Agreed - many that I would love to explore thereabouts!
I do enjoy your videos; there is something fascinating about disused railways. My interest in the subject was probably honed by this particular railway, in which I have a special interest as a local resident, and which provided a useful service to the area as well as a much needed east-west link between the three main lines (isn’t it four if you walk a short distance in Hertford). I remember traveling on the line in the early 60s, from Harpenden East to visit my Grandmother in Hadley Wood, and being disappointed that the engine was diesel and not steam powered. How could they keep a bit of the St Albans Abbey line open but close this one? Why did they close the Hatfield to Abbey part of that line? With hindsight these decisions should have looked at so much more than just cost.
Many thanks indeed for your thoughts, comment, memories and kind words about my film!
When the Watford to St Albans railway was built there were plans to extend it to Dunstable. Had it been built, given the the Watford to St Albans railway remains and thrives one wonders if Dunstable would have still ben rail connected today. Even with a connection to Leighton Buzzard.
It's a very interesting thought, thanks for your comment 👍
Those of us resident in Cambridgeshire and Hertfordshire are badly served by east - west links since the Beeching era, noting that passenger services on this line were withdrawn in the 50s suggesting poor loadings. Every time I want to head north I check out the train timetables and sigh; via London is the option, expensive, time consuming and a poor alternative to the car, sadly. Thank you for the film.
I live in South Cambridgeshire and I agree. East West Rail might help if it comes to fruition but who knows!
Your vidoes are beautifully presented, and the mix of photos, current-day videos, with the maps and your narration, make these a real pleasure.
Please keep up the excellent work
Glad you like them - and I will do!
Excellent video as always.
As with many others, the closure was probably the right thing due to the lack of traffic. Sadly I think its way to expensive to reinstate this and would probably not get enough use to warrant that cost.
Thank you very much! And I think your assessment is spot on!
Another gem of a video, so well researched and produced.
Definitely another line that should be still in operation.
A town like Dunstable should be served by rail.
Although I drive coaches, I dont rate guided bus ways.
If we had the rail network before Beeching, the roads would be far less crowded.
Many thanks for your comment and kind words about my film
Another excellent video, thanks. Yet another missing link that would be well used had it been left in situ. We’ll never learn. 🚂🚴♂️👣🇺🇦
Many thanks indeed 🙏
It never should have closed. It linked the Great Eastern main line, Great Northern mainline, the Midland and the West coast mainline. Quite apart from Luton airport!
Yes, many lost connections here!
My grandfather and father worked at the Blackbridge land fill site, this received rubbish from London by train and was the last piece of the line to close when the A1 was extended as they were not prepared to put in a bridge over a single track line.
Many thanks for sharing your valuable memories!
@@RediscoveringLostRailways I think that the A1M Welwyn by pass opened in 1972/3 so the last remaining part of the Welwyn to Luton line would have closed a little before this. From memory I believe in the latter stages of this site they received two trains a day coming from North London.
Thank you once again for a great video. It is always so sad to see closed railways as an enthusiast, but as a professional railway consultant my opinion is that this has no chance as a rail reopening - too much alignment has been lost, and the scale of demolition required to reinstate it would result in an insuperable level of opposition. Even the original decision to close might have been correct- it was an orbital route where almost all of the significant locations served already have a rail service going in the direction where most of the traffic goes- London. The end of wagonload freight probably meant it’s demise. I also agree with the negative comments about guided bus - a technology looking for an application- apart from a few specific applications where passing clearances are too tight, it does nothing that a a dedicated busway cannot do at much lower cost. But thanks once again for a great film.
My pleasure and thank you so much for your thoughts and insights!
I randomly came acroos this video and found the whole journey of the old lines fascinating. Now aged 77, I recall as a young teenager standing in the car park at WGC station, together with fellow trainspotters, waiting for the arrival of one of the first powerful diesel engines. A station porterwas also entralled by the sight of the enormous engine as it halted on the Northbound platform. The porter was pulling a 4 wheeled cart loaded with goods and had begun to cross the line that was the spur that ran from WGC to Luton. At the end of the platform there stood a signal box which blocked his view of the branch line which wended its way around the box. Our group of lads stood next to the fence and heard a train approaching from Luton. The station worker couldn't see or hear it as the noise of the diesel was very loud. He and his cart still stood on the branch line. We saw the danger and began to shout but to no avail. When he finally heard our cries he saw the approachiong train and tried to pull the cart out of its path. It was too late and the steam engine struck him and the cart which exploded in a shower of splinters and parcels. As the train passed us and came to a halt, other station staff came running along the platform and jumped on the track but they couldn't save the unfortunate porter. Our little group just stood open mouthed until we were shooed away. The image of this event still burns in my memory.
What a tragic thing to happen and a terrible sight to witness. A vital reminder as to how dangerous the railway can be!
Fascinating. I remember there used to be a train from Hatfield to Dunstable which was withdrawn by Beeching or earlier. Trains going west from Hertford are well before my time.
Many thanks indeed!
Excellent. A really interesting video, incredibly well presented, and an insight into hoe useful the re-opening of this East - West corridor would be, connecting three main lines.
Thank you indeed for your kind words about my film 🙏
It should never of closed, like many more branch lines.
Thanks for your comment
Sadly another closure that shouldn't have happened this area is prime commuter area and is choked with traffic..
Many thanks for your thoughts and comment 👍