I think Hetfield gets the credit because he recorded the rhythm tracks for all the classic albums and was extremely tight, we will never know if Kirk could record those rhythms just as tightly. Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman always get left out of the downstroke discussion but songs like At Dawn They Sleep, Postmortem, and others are real workouts
I remember seeing the Big Four concert in cinema, and was astounded at how Hanneman would absolutely pound his strings with downstrokes. Sometimes he would use the whole arm, which is not too economical in energy but was badass!
@@Nobiemon if you watch early Slayer videos Hanneman plays a little more from the wrist but once you get to the mid 90s he plays mostly from the arm. Ive read he had either neurological or tendon issues so that could be a reason why.
Man, I finally see someone talking about this. I noticed Kirk's rhythm skills all the way back when I watched "Live Shit"; James would just play chords, or stop playing entirely at times, to interact with the crowd, while Kirk was always playing normally in the back. And it's been the same throughout the years in every live show I've seen from them. But for some reason nobody seemed to mention anything about it, to the point I thought I was listening something wrong even. It's so nice to see it acknowledged that he is indeed at the same level as James, and even goes the extra distance to help him be a better frontman.
I’d argue that it’s not just the downstrokes, James also has a fantastic sense of rhythm that carries the whole band. I’ve never heard that from Kirk’s playing.
His vocals and guitar playing are what make Metallica shine. Excluding a few special moments from Cliff, the rest of the band is more functional than fantastic.
I'd disagree. It's the band as a whole working together that made them sound how they are. I mean James can't sing to save himself since the mid 90's so you could say everyone carried him since then.
See that's the thing. It's one thing to be 'king of downstrokes' on a studio recording but it's also another thing to be 'king of downstrokes' in a live setting while also singing live.
@@danieljessop7140 James has more control in his voice at 60 than he had at 30, he do have less distortion though, but he is probably amongst the best 60+ singers in metal, you might not like his style nowadays, but quality voice is not even a debate, specially on the last half decade or so when he actually accepted that he got older and developed his voice to match his age instead of trying to sound like he did 30 years ago.
Kirk never seems to garner much attention, but I’ve noticed how they both cover for each other, which is what makes a tight band and I think right now they are as tight as they’ve ever been with Robert cranking the winch cables
The 1st person I want to mention is a RUclipsr named Kevin Frasard, his down picking speed is absolutely insane. Some other great examples are: Doyle Wolfgang Von Frankenstein, Jon Schaefer, Jeff Waters, Scott Ian, Kerry King, Ryan Waste, Mick Thompson, I'm sure there's tons more.
Doyle's actually pretty underrated as far as technique goes. Dude's slamming his guitar left, right and center, plays with a shit-ton of gain and still manages to play cleanly.
First name that came to my mind was Kevin! He might not agree. But I guarantee he can outlast James in a stamina test. His arms are HUGE and I bet he can play a set without getting to tired. He's a BEAST
perhaps Kirk’s face-melting & lightning fast, or sustained bent single note, whah’d, or full range usage of his tremolo Lead Guitar Solos on records or live performances get in the way of seeing him as a BadAss down picker.
Jeff Waters (Annihilator) is underrated when it comes to downpicking. Also, Joe Haley (Psycroptic) has some of that most incredible right hand technique in the business.
Erik Rutan from Hate Eternal/Cannibal Corpse is a monster, too. Not just for downpicking, but every time I watch his playthrough of All Hope Destroyed I'm blown away by how aggressively yet accurately he plays
On the subject of efficient picking, I’m always blown away by how tiny Yngwie’s picking motions are. It appears as though it’s all the motion happening only through his finger joints. I know it’s off topic, but I’d love to see an analysis of it.
I heard Steve Vai say that back in the day he asked Yngwie about his picking technique because he was struggling with alternate picking. So Steve was like "How do you alternate pick with such finesse? How did you develop such a unique technique?" to which Yngwie responded "hmm.. ya know, to tell you the truth I never looked down"
I agree with what you are saying. Kirk does get a break from the down strokes on solos, but of course it's not exactly a break because playing the solo, but it does offer some variation of movement while James is still chugging away at the down strokes. Another downstroke monster is Scott Ian from Anthrax.
Some of the craziest down picking I’ve seen is Matt and Corey of Trivium playing Forsake Not the Dream. Down picking straight 8th notes at like 235 bpm and skipping strings while doing it. Base notes on low E and accents on D. I can barely keep up alternate picking. It’s in their guitar world lesson for forsake not the dream at around the 1:10 mark. It’s the pre chorus of the song but I think they do something similar in the post chorus as well.
@@DenisKublitsky I just recently found out that Matt Heafy was a big fan of James Hetfield, I’m sure he still is since that’s what he grew up listening to. I grew up listening to Trivium, and I’m just now learning more about them 😂. U can definitely hear the influence in the super early Trivium songs from when Matt was like 13 or 14. It’s wild
metallica has played absolutely phenomenal on the recent string of metontour vids, end of the line was just perfect. Mike, do a blitzkrieg solo breakdown please!
So true. I also think Kirk potentially has a healthier lifestyle now and practices very regularly and actively speaks about it. I somehow get the impression that when James is off he's off. Whereas Kirk seems to always have a guitar nearby
Great analysis! People give Kirk sh*t because of his mistakes in solos, but I think that him being able to "keep up" with James' downpicking all these years is one of his main strengths....especially live!
@@neilomac *slow clap* he's saying what we're all thinking besides, who needed another Iron Maiden knockoff or professional tribute band? Honestly? Iced Earth SUCKED. Literally the most famous it will ever be was at that very moment.
In all fairness I guess it introduced a whole new crop of people to how badly it sucked when they went to go look up Iced Earth and went "huh I guess it makes sense"
@@russellzauner Well, it's hard to separate the music from the musician. But I agree, Jon is a stupid person that believe on stupid things. On the other hand I desagree about his music legacy, in my opinion, it's far from been a tribute band and he is a great composer. The Dark Saga and Something Wicked are fantastic albums, give them a try.
I think we kinda forget the fact that Jason Newsted does the exact same thing as Hetfield but on bass strings. I couldn't even comprehend doing that as a guitarist. Bro's arm is crazy
Kirk doesn’t get half the credit he deserves. James gets pretty much sole rhythm guitarist credit but if you go down a list of their best riffs Kirk wrote a hefty portion of them.
Yeah that Bridge riff from My Apocalypse that Kirk Plays... All downstrokes, and a completely insane riff that continues to own me... LMAO... but I continue to practice it, and one day will own it
John Browne (Monuments) as far as unsigned people, check out Kang Maomao's clip "Metal Riff My Solar Guitar" and at the end it's full send cap'n insane-o.
James always makes himself look larger on stage with how he hovers over the mic. Back in 88' at the monster of rock tour in Seattle I swear he was at least 6'4" or taller with his aggressive stance. Totally allows him to delivered every note with extreme power. He was the best on the planet then and after 40 yrs later still is.
Kirk is a perfect support player for Metallica and this video shows just how important he is to the band. James gets most of the attention for being the main songwriter and frontman, but he can't do it alone. James and Dave (Mustaine) together never would've lasted because they're too identical, both having a leader, alpha male, always in control, do things my way personality. Kirk is more the quiet, shy, stay in the background and do my thing type which makes him the better complement to James.
@@Bless-the-Name Same. Kirk is very cool because he is not trying to be the main event. He enjoys what he’s doing and doesn’t bother with anything else.
Everyone needs to note this is something thats a recent development, since James has gotten older and less durable. Kirk is great too, and i have defended his playing for so long. Prime for prime though, its obviously always gonna be James
this was kind of a weird choice but I saw mick thomson performing surfacing with an insane downpick. I'm pretty sure it was a early performance but you should check it out. edit: I found the footage and it was in a full show in Minneapolis, MN, USA [01-12-1999] it was around in the 23:49 mark to 24"10 of the video I think
@@Luis7Vazquez7 He is most definitely NOT. I went and watched some of his videos after seeing his name a few times in this comments section. He's very good, but he is NOT the new king at all---sorry, not sorry.
Mick Thompson has always been a monster downpicker as well , but there are plenty of guys out there that you could name. As others have said, John Browne is one of my favorites when it comes to downpicking, his picking hand is insane, nothing is lost or wasted through his picking.
Yeah, Kirk's down picking is definitely underrated. People (myself included) forget that he plays all those riffs too. On the note of the occasional upstroke helping the endurance, you should do a video about Meshuggah's "bleed" pattern, whereby they upstroke one of the 8th notes in the pattern to play it faster/longer. A couple of death metal bands also use this idea.
I've played along with that Ramones clip, all downsies, but cannot IMAGINE doing a whole show. And Hetfield! Don't forget that he's not only playing downsies like a machine but he's _also singing!_ That puts him above anyone else who is "only" playing downsies alone.
So true…Kirk deserves this credit!! Another newer downpicking legend is Josh Middleton from Sylosis and Architects. Like Hetfield, he also sings and plays some of the best riffs. He also plays insane leads and is quietly a phenomenal “clean singer”.
Schaffer has my vote for best rhythm player in general. Metallica and Iced Earth are both my favorites, but James could never play some Iced Earth riffs, but I’m pretty positive Jon could play any Metallica riff
Jon Schaffer is extremely underrated, I bet most people who say there good rhythm players would struggle to play the early iced earth stuff properly. If you could player the night of the storm rider album without a break your the man
Schaffer is in my opinion the best metal rhythm player. He's way above Hetfield. The precision, speed an stamina he has in his gallops and tremolo picking is unrivaled. His technique is flawless and amazes me to this day. And if we're talking about downstrokes, have a look at "Last December" from Alive In Athens. He doesn't downstroke all of it, but some. And it's at about 240 BPM. Or Dante's Inferno has a really long (!) passage at 230 BPM that's hard as fuck to play. And Is till don't get how he can play the downstrokes in When The Night Falls.
@@shanerichardson7128 So true. Hetfield is good, but mainly at downstrokes. Schaffer has that plus his crazy precision, speed and stamina at gallops and tremolo picking that sets him apart from other players.
Good video man. I've been saying it for years, since I was a teen. Kirk is better than we give him credit for. Form that era everyone thinks of Marty and Alex.
I've been saying for years that nobody seems to notice that Kirk down picks every bit as well as James, and then has to deal with solos as well. His down strokes aren't quite as powerful, but they are still there and very dependable. He's a monster rhythm player and deserves some love for it.
Kirk and James are the best guitar duo. As you pointed out their down picking and rhythm skills are unmatched. I also think James has some of the best solos in Metallica. As much as I’m sick of listening to Nothing Else Matters, James’ solo in that song keeps me from skipping the song when it comes on because it’s just that good to me.
That was the first solo I ever learned. So simple at the first glance, but so many nuances and so hard to do it right. And even though it's really short, it uses a lot of guitar techniques.
Had a nice talk with Kirk backstage on the Justice tour. He was so sweet. Asked what kind of guitar I play. Very down to earth at a time when they were taking over the planet.
EASILY one of the best in the game. When he's in the zone, his speed and accuracy is almost superhuman. He definitely doesn't get enough credit/attention for his downpicking ability.
I am here just to say that, I am a beginner who can barely play yet but I got way better at downpicking because of your video about the hand position. It really helped me.
That's really cool to hear. Good luck to you and stick with it. I started by playing along to cassette tapes, did AC/DC first then Rush then the Ramones then Metallica and Megadeth. If you can get to the point of being able to play Master of Puppets all the way through, you can do anything you want after that.
For me malcolm young of AC/DC will always be the god of downstrokes. Listening and watching him do songs like whole lotta rosie and safe in new york city much faster than record pace downpicked is insane
can you imagine what it would’ve been like in 1983, when Cliff, Lars & James first got in a rehearsal space with Kirk & fired up the early Metallica machine?! or imagine what it was like when James & Lars presented a new one to Kirk, gave him a demo to listen to overnight & write a solo alone, then heard him blast it out for the first time in front of them?! I imagine those dudes were ecstatic & knew that they then had all the right pieces in place to rule the thrash metal world & beyond. I bet they felt like successful alchemist (with gigantic boners)
Watching Kirk explain why he always wears tape on his picking hand and putting his technique into practice helped out tons when I was learning some of their faster songs years ago. You can also tell a lot from watching their studio videos vs their live stuff that James does slack off when preforming because of how he uses both his hands to make gestures during songs while Kirk rarely does.
A lot of keyboard warriors smash kirk online but at the end of the day he does what James does rhythmically and then marches off across stage tearing into his solos. Very cool 😎. He has also composed some some pretty cool shit in his time too i.e all solos in Fade to Black and One. Melodically they bring you to your knees. I think everyone overlooks the contributions Kirks has had to this band cause with without some of his in put the the above mentioned songs, and more, there is a huge possibility MetallicA would not have some of the masterpieces they have today.
When I taught myself to play as a teenager, playing along with cds in my garage, I just downpicked everything from punk to metal, just assuming that's how you were supposed to do it and never paid enough attention to other musicians to see not everyone played like that, I just thought everyone did. 28 years later that's how I still play. It feels more natural to me and can actually play faster and more accurately than picking up and down.
James admitted, didn't he, that he was slowing down and got really depressed thinking about how he isn't what he used to be. And he said his band mates were there for him and had his back. I imagine that's one way for Kirk to have his mate's back while James, let's not forget, is SINGING while doing those mad downstrokes!
I've been thinking about that for years now. "Hetfield is and will always be the greatest metal downpicker of all time, no doutb. But you know who' downpicks as fast Hetfield?? Kirk!" Thank you for making this video!
He gets so much heat for his solos, that its easy to forget he's playing rhythm for the entire show. Yes, he most definitely deserves credit for that. 👍🏾
Remember, Kirk has to play almost exactly what James is and keep up with him, all the while playing solos throughout a concert as well. Kirk is DEFINITELY underrated when it comes to his down picking ability
I don't know for sure, but perhaps James and Kirk have to back each other up with the downstrokes. Most Metallica songs have a guitar solo, most of which are played by Kirk. While Kirk is playing the solo, James has to continue the down picked riffs, and the Metallica formula is often an entire run of the verse into the chorus riffs. Nice video. It really got me thinking of the dynamic between them as if I'm a teen in the 90's again.
Kirk also uses small Jazz 3 picks with a little cut in them, I think this also allows him to use a lot more smaller movements with his downstrokes. I use the same picks as him and it really helped me speed up my downstrokes and alternate picking.
I recently rewatched some of Metallica’s earlier shows and I think it was ‘85 Metal Hammer festival in the UK? It was Creeping Death and I saw James doing a lot of alternate picking throughout the song except for that main riff for the verses. And you know that G-F# riff between the verses, he was alternate picking for the entire riff! And no excuse for a 2 hour show stamina issue because I think it was the opening song for the night. My theory is that he upped his game for intense live downpicking skills before or around the Master of Puppets tour era based on some shows I watched around ‘85-87ish.
People also forget Newsted too ! Especially during late puppets Tour late in 86' and the justice tour. And he has heavier gauge bass strings using all down strokes . those three were untouchable touring that time . And yes Kirk should NOT be forgotten.
Try researching Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth. Possible songs: "disciples of the lie" after break after 2nd refrain, "travel in Stygian" main riff, "the hunter" the entire song almost and much more. He's overall probably the best at right hand speed/stamina/accuracy combined.
He's definitely the best especially in terms of technique. Been searching for a better player for years, never found one. There are too many hard songs to list them all (Dante's Inferno, When The Night Falls, Stormrider, Cast In Stone, The Path I Choose etc.).
I'm so glad I studied at the Hetfield School of Picking. Age and lack of practice has slowed me down now but back when I was learning Metallica songs and playing a lot every day, my down picking was savage. Very hard to come, way too easy to go :(
Interestingly, you should really check out Doyle from the Misfits....particularly while playing Misfits stuff, rather than his solo work where he's started doing upstrokes. It's....pretty serious.
One the first songs I learned was Caught In a Mosh. The magazine said the verses are down picked so I learned in that way, but I now realize Scott Ian alt picks it and does that on other songs while Danny Spitz uses downstrokes (another one is Be All End All)
for me Jeff Waters is the best downpicker out there, his right hand is just unstopable. Once I saw a video of him playing creeping death (toronto 87 speed) with almost no effort, he is a fucking machine
I agree 100 percent...but I still just stare in awe at James playing songs like Battery and Blackened while singing at the same time. I'm a singer and I play guitar. Been trying for over 25 years to do both at the same time and still can't.
That Metallica Live video from '86 is absolutely brutal and to me the manifestation of what metal/hardrock/punk was, is and should be. Some intoxicated 20 year olds just firing on all cylinders.
brian eschbach from the black dahlia murder is severely underrated, he has ridiculous stamina and can downpick precisely at high speeds he’s my favorite
I practice my downstrokes all the time. It started when I read someone say that a certain Godsmack riff couldn't be played with just downstrokes, so I took that up. Now, I actually got pretty good at it!
This! I love James, of course, but I've always wondered why he's considered the God of downpicking when Kirk mirrors him note-for-note live and plays most of the solos. Kirk deserves way more respect than he gets.
I feel like Kirk's soloing gives him the rest his wrist needs. Alternate picking patterns or lengthened single notes are not this tiring for one's wrist, I think that's Kirk's little secret.
Very happy to see Kirk get some love! I've been saying this for years! Kirk plays everything James does live (except the solo sections), it's really weird he gets left out. I think he has been playing tighter live than James since at least the late 90's. James has been using his tricks to skip downstrokes for a looong time. I think Kirk is underrated as a rythm player, and James is underrated as a lead player.
There was an interview in the '90s of River Phoenix interviewing Flea where Flea talks about (and shows) doing all downpicking on the bass when he was in a punk band. It was a rad interview and you can totally find it online.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Kirk finally getting the love he deserves. It’s good that people recognizes him for his skill which rightfully makes him a part of Metallica
bwhahahah Kirk been getting love for 30+ years
Kirk is just kinda forgotten because he's a pretty mediocre lead player as far as metal goes.
Wah wah wah wah
@@laremare mediocre even by mediocre standards
@@laremare modern Kirk, maybe, but 80-90s Kirk was one of the best. Nobody in metal has a larger collection of iconic solos to their name.
I think Hetfield gets the credit because he recorded the rhythm tracks for all the classic albums and was extremely tight, we will never know if Kirk could record those rhythms just as tightly.
Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman always get left out of the downstroke discussion but songs like At Dawn They Sleep, Postmortem, and others are real workouts
Recently Dave Mustaine was asked and he suggested that Kerry is up there with James in down picking if not better!!!
I remember seeing the Big Four concert in cinema, and was astounded at how Hanneman would absolutely pound his strings with downstrokes. Sometimes he would use the whole arm, which is not too economical in energy but was badass!
@@Nobiemon It might be a recovery technique, he switches to whole arm just to get the wrist/lower arm a rest.
Postmortem especially.
@@Nobiemon if you watch early Slayer videos Hanneman plays a little more from the wrist but once you get to the mid 90s he plays mostly from the arm. Ive read he had either neurological or tendon issues so that could be a reason why.
Matt and Corey from trivium are absolutely insane with their downstrokes. They’ve got one riff in what the dead men say that’s absolutely insane
Honestly, in general their riffs can be insane in the rhythm playing. Rain is unbelievably hard for me, for some reason.
That riff is not that insane
Pull harder on the strings of your martyr before the solo is a hard down pick riff
Haha. I remember when I was learning "like light to flies." It's rough
I'm going to look that up right now. Thanks for the tip.
Man, I finally see someone talking about this. I noticed Kirk's rhythm skills all the way back when I watched "Live Shit"; James would just play chords, or stop playing entirely at times, to interact with the crowd, while Kirk was always playing normally in the back. And it's been the same throughout the years in every live show I've seen from them. But for some reason nobody seemed to mention anything about it, to the point I thought I was listening something wrong even. It's so nice to see it acknowledged that he is indeed at the same level as James, and even goes the extra distance to help him be a better frontman.
I’d argue that it’s not just the downstrokes, James also has a fantastic sense of rhythm that carries the whole band. I’ve never heard that from Kirk’s playing.
His vocals and guitar playing are what make Metallica shine. Excluding a few special moments from Cliff, the rest of the band is more functional than fantastic.
I'd disagree. It's the band as a whole working together that made them sound how they are. I mean James can't sing to save himself since the mid 90's so you could say everyone carried him since then.
See that's the thing. It's one thing to be 'king of downstrokes' on a studio recording but it's also another thing to be 'king of downstrokes' in a live setting while also singing live.
James is also 60 years old
@@danieljessop7140 James has more control in his voice at 60 than he had at 30, he do have less distortion though, but he is probably amongst the best 60+ singers in metal, you might not like his style nowadays, but quality voice is not even a debate, specially on the last half decade or so when he actually accepted that he got older and developed his voice to match his age instead of trying to sound like he did 30 years ago.
Kirk never seems to garner much attention, but I’ve noticed how they both cover for each other, which is what makes a tight band and I think right now they are as tight as they’ve ever been with Robert cranking the winch cables
Rob has added so much value to them! I absolutely dig how much fun he has on stage. It's his fault they even do Orion live.
Haha, I've never heard someone call it that before.
The 1st person I want to mention is a RUclipsr named Kevin Frasard, his down picking speed is absolutely insane. Some other great examples are: Doyle Wolfgang Von Frankenstein, Jon Schaefer, Jeff Waters, Scott Ian, Kerry King, Ryan Waste, Mick Thompson, I'm sure there's tons more.
Doyle's actually pretty underrated as far as technique goes.
Dude's slamming his guitar left, right and center, plays with a shit-ton of gain and still manages to play cleanly.
Doyle is awesome
Kerry King and Jeff H. They even faster then Kirk&James. Also, many other 80s thrashers..It's a Sacrilege!
@@TML0677 Kerry was never tight and doesn't have a very hard pick attack.
First name that came to my mind was Kevin! He might not agree. But I guarantee he can outlast James in a stamina test. His arms are HUGE and I bet he can play a set without getting to tired. He's a BEAST
Been saying this about Kirk for many years
perhaps Kirk’s face-melting & lightning fast, or sustained bent single note, whah’d, or full range usage of his tremolo Lead Guitar Solos on records or live performances get in the way of seeing him as a BadAss down picker.
Same man 🤘🏽😎
But doing a solo IS a very nice break for your wrist, while james has to continue picking.
Cap
James is the goat but I think Scott Ian from Anthrax gets overlooked aswell as Kirk.
Yeah so for 40 years Kirk has been standing around on stage waiting for his wah solos, while James is doing his God given downstrokes
John Browne is no doubt the new king of the down pick. Incredible metal rhythm player.
Nowadays I think he is the best, fastest too ^^
Happy to see you mentioned Browne. Anyone who haven't seen his playtrough of Doxa should do themselves a favour and watch it now!
Nah, Dave Davidson or Matt Heafy.
Came to the comments to post this too, his downpicking is insane
I second this. I don't listen to Monuments at all but am happy and inspired every time I see him on RUclips. Right hand goals lol.
Jeff Waters (Annihilator) is underrated when it comes to downpicking.
Also, Joe Haley (Psycroptic) has some of that most incredible right hand technique in the business.
Erik Rutan from Hate Eternal/Cannibal Corpse is a monster, too. Not just for downpicking, but every time I watch his playthrough of All Hope Destroyed I'm blown away by how aggressively yet accurately he plays
Yup, Jeff Waters was who came to mind when I clicked the thumbnail.
Jon Shaffer also uses massive amounts of fast downstrokes
Both the guitarist from Slipknot downpick at crazy speeds. Just learned Eeyore a while back, almost broke my wrist
He warms up with Creeping Death
On the subject of efficient picking, I’m always blown away by how tiny Yngwie’s picking motions are. It appears as though it’s all the motion happening only through his finger joints.
I know it’s off topic, but I’d love to see an analysis of it.
Follow Chris Brooks for any Yngwie technique.
I heard Steve Vai say that back in the day he asked Yngwie about his picking technique because he was struggling with alternate picking. So Steve was like "How do you alternate pick with such finesse? How did you develop such a unique technique?" to which Yngwie responded "hmm.. ya know, to tell you the truth I never looked down"
@PenileAugmentation what a great username
I swear he uses a bit of a push/pull technique using his thumb and index finger to move the pick up and down.
I agree with what you are saying. Kirk does get a break from the down strokes on solos, but of course it's not exactly a break because playing the solo, but it does offer some variation of movement while James is still chugging away at the down strokes.
Another downstroke monster is Scott Ian from Anthrax.
Het's the king not just because of the speed, he has so much more 'thunk' to his hits than others 🤘👍
Some of the craziest down picking I’ve seen is Matt and Corey of Trivium playing Forsake Not the Dream. Down picking straight 8th notes at like 235 bpm and skipping strings while doing it. Base notes on low E and accents on D. I can barely keep up alternate picking. It’s in their guitar world lesson for forsake not the dream at around the 1:10 mark. It’s the pre chorus of the song but I think they do something similar in the post chorus as well.
Yep, Matt Heafy is a great downstroke player. And he also sings!
@@DenisKublitsky I just recently found out that Matt Heafy was a big fan of James Hetfield, I’m sure he still is since that’s what he grew up listening to. I grew up listening to Trivium, and I’m just now learning more about them 😂. U can definitely hear the influence in the super early Trivium songs from when Matt was like 13 or 14. It’s wild
Johnny Ramone had the simplest yet one of the most brutal guitar playing style of all time.
And he was picking power chords vs 1 string. The true king.
@@18JR78 bro he wasn't picking power chords. Look closely at the footage, they are none other than barre chords.
@@SpeedKing.. a power chord is literally the main two notes of a barre chord
@@k0slizard389 still easier to pick than barres
@@k0slizard389
johnny ramone played the full chords, not only the root and the 5th
metallica has played absolutely phenomenal on the recent string of metontour vids, end of the line was just perfect.
Mike, do a blitzkrieg solo breakdown please!
Kerry King and Jeff hanneman
So true. I also think Kirk potentially has a healthier lifestyle now and practices very regularly and actively speaks about it. I somehow get the impression that when James is off he's off. Whereas Kirk seems to always have a guitar nearby
Great analysis! People give Kirk sh*t because of his mistakes in solos, but I think that him being able to "keep up" with James' downpicking all these years is one of his main strengths....especially live!
Yeah I totally give Kirk props to be able to keep up with James, learn his riffs, and remember his solos.
And given how inebriated they for many years and the fact that he joined shortly before Kill 'Em All and was able to adjust, he's done very well.
Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth has a very impressive down stroke technic. His right hand is like a machine gun.
Just a shame about the whole 'storming the Capitol' thing.
@@neilomac *slow clap* he's saying what we're all thinking
besides, who needed another Iron Maiden knockoff or professional tribute band?
Honestly? Iced Earth SUCKED. Literally the most famous it will ever be was at that very moment.
In all fairness I guess it introduced a whole new crop of people to how badly it sucked when they went to go look up Iced Earth and went "huh I guess it makes sense"
A questionable character, but for me the fastest downpicker on earth. Can't even play majority of his fastest riffs correctly.
@@russellzauner Well, it's hard to separate the music from the musician. But I agree, Jon is a stupid person that believe on stupid things. On the other hand I desagree about his music legacy, in my opinion, it's far from been a tribute band and he is a great composer. The Dark Saga and Something Wicked are fantastic albums, give them a try.
Thanks for this. It so often gets overlooked. He has been playing all these riffs for decades, and he never gets mentioned.
max cavalera has to be the most underrated fast downpicker some of the riffs he played especially on beneath the remains are insane
That's such a killer album.
I think we kinda forget the fact that Jason Newsted does the exact same thing as Hetfield but on bass strings. I couldn't even comprehend doing that as a guitarist. Bro's arm is crazy
Kirk doesn’t get half the credit he deserves. James gets pretty much sole rhythm guitarist credit but if you go down a list of their best riffs Kirk wrote a hefty portion of them.
Yeah that Bridge riff from My Apocalypse that Kirk Plays... All downstrokes, and a completely insane riff that continues to own me... LMAO... but I continue to practice it, and one day will own it
Matt Heafy is pretty legit at downpicking. You don't really notice it until you watch him livestream.
James is better. And it’s not even close.
John Browne (Monuments)
as far as unsigned people, check out Kang Maomao's clip "Metal Riff My Solar Guitar" and at the end it's full send cap'n insane-o.
James always makes himself look larger on stage with how he hovers over the mic. Back in 88' at the monster of rock tour in Seattle I swear he was at least 6'4" or taller with his aggressive stance. Totally allows him to delivered every note with extreme power. He was the best on the planet then and after 40 yrs later still is.
Helps that Lars is 5"5' and Kirk is only 5"6 or 5"7, so just being 6" makes him look larger then avg guy.
Good point on that stance. I even thought he was taller like 6’5
@@teufelshunde4 yeah but even when cliff was alive, he looked taller on stage than him and Cliff was 6’2. Also pretty sure James is 6’1
@@2nerC9 James could be more than 6'1 tho. Multiple pictures of him with Mustaine he is way taller, and Mustaine is 6'
@@teufelshunde4 lars is 5'6
Kirk is a perfect support player for Metallica and this video shows just how important he is to the band. James gets most of the attention for being the main songwriter and frontman, but he can't do it alone. James and Dave (Mustaine) together never would've lasted because they're too identical, both having a leader, alpha male, always in control, do things my way personality. Kirk is more the quiet, shy, stay in the background and do my thing type which makes him the better complement to James.
Kirk is my favourite - for this reason.
He's really chill on social media too.
@@Bless-the-Name Same. Kirk is very cool because he is not trying to be the main event. He enjoys what he’s doing and doesn’t bother with anything else.
Everyone needs to note this is something thats a recent development, since James has gotten older and less durable. Kirk is great too, and i have defended his playing for so long. Prime for prime though, its obviously always gonna be James
James will always be the King of down picking.
this was kind of a weird choice but I saw mick thomson performing surfacing with an insane downpick. I'm pretty sure it was a early performance but you should check it out.
edit: I found the footage and it was in a full show in Minneapolis, MN, USA [01-12-1999] it was around in the 23:49 mark to 24"10 of the video I think
Mick has a ridiculous right hand....1st person I ever heard talk about "lactic acid" when it comes to picking
@@dieslow313 what is latic acid in this context? is it like a nickname for mick? ive never heard of this
The new king of downstrokes is John Browne from Monuments. His right hand technique is undeniable.
Can't believe I had to scroll this much to read John's name. Absolute beast he is
@@Luis7Vazquez7 He is most definitely NOT. I went and watched some of his videos after seeing his name a few times in this comments section. He's very good, but he is NOT the new king at all---sorry, not sorry.
That's what I'm saying.
@@forestdweller8164 might want to look at how insane his right hand technique is, my guy, especially on stuff like doxa. Simply insane.
John Schaffer has sick rhythm playing.
Mick Thompson has always been a monster downpicker as well , but there are plenty of guys out there that you could name.
As others have said, John Browne is one of my favorites when it comes to downpicking, his picking hand is insane, nothing is lost or wasted through his picking.
Yeah, Kirk's down picking is definitely underrated. People (myself included) forget that he plays all those riffs too. On the note of the occasional upstroke helping the endurance, you should do a video about Meshuggah's "bleed" pattern, whereby they upstroke one of the 8th notes in the pattern to play it faster/longer. A couple of death metal bands also use this idea.
I've played along with that Ramones clip, all downsies, but cannot IMAGINE doing a whole show. And Hetfield! Don't forget that he's not only playing downsies like a machine but he's _also singing!_ That puts him above anyone else who is "only" playing downsies alone.
So true…Kirk deserves this credit!! Another newer downpicking legend is Josh Middleton from Sylosis and Architects. Like Hetfield, he also sings and plays some of the best riffs. He also plays insane leads and is quietly a phenomenal “clean singer”.
I think Jon Schaffer should be in the conversation even though he's using a lot of alternate picking, his downstrokes are insanely fast
Schaffer has my vote for best rhythm player in general. Metallica and Iced Earth are both my favorites, but James could never play some Iced Earth riffs, but I’m pretty positive Jon could play any Metallica riff
@@shanerichardson7128 Agreed, the first couple of minutes of Travel in Stygian are insane!
Jon Schaffer is extremely underrated, I bet most people who say there good rhythm players would struggle to play the early iced earth stuff properly. If you could player the night of the storm rider album without a break your the man
Schaffer is in my opinion the best metal rhythm player. He's way above Hetfield. The precision, speed an stamina he has in his gallops and tremolo picking is unrivaled. His technique is flawless and amazes me to this day. And if we're talking about downstrokes, have a look at "Last December" from Alive In Athens. He doesn't downstroke all of it, but some. And it's at about 240 BPM. Or Dante's Inferno has a really long (!) passage at 230 BPM that's hard as fuck to play. And Is till don't get how he can play the downstrokes in When The Night Falls.
@@shanerichardson7128 So true. Hetfield is good, but mainly at downstrokes. Schaffer has that plus his crazy precision, speed and stamina at gallops and tremolo picking that sets him apart from other players.
Good video man. I've been saying it for years, since I was a teen. Kirk is better than we give him credit for. Form that era everyone thinks of Marty and Alex.
Lol nobody thinks of Alex. He has 0 riffs
I've been saying for years that nobody seems to notice that Kirk down picks every bit as well as James, and then has to deal with solos as well. His down strokes aren't quite as powerful, but they are still there and very dependable. He's a monster rhythm player and deserves some love for it.
Kirk and James are the best guitar duo. As you pointed out their down picking and rhythm skills are unmatched. I also think James has some of the best solos in Metallica. As much as I’m sick of listening to Nothing Else Matters, James’ solo in that song keeps me from skipping the song when it comes on because it’s just that good to me.
That was the first solo I ever learned. So simple at the first glance, but so many nuances and so hard to do it right. And even though it's really short, it uses a lot of guitar techniques.
The harmonies they do are amazing and also make them the best guitar duo.
Had a nice talk with Kirk backstage on the Justice tour. He was so sweet. Asked what kind of guitar I play. Very down to earth at a time when they were taking over the planet.
I'd say the iron maiden fellas are just as tight with their guitars......
@@PaulBC1981 Technically a trio. 😉
Mick Thomson in early slipknot and even now is a monster at down picking
EASILY one of the best in the game. When he's in the zone, his speed and accuracy is almost superhuman. He definitely doesn't get enough credit/attention for his downpicking ability.
I am here just to say that, I am a beginner who can barely play yet but I got way better at downpicking because of your video about the hand position. It really helped me.
That's really cool to hear. Good luck to you and stick with it. I started by playing along to cassette tapes, did AC/DC first then Rush then the Ramones then Metallica and Megadeth. If you can get to the point of being able to play Master of Puppets all the way through, you can do anything you want after that.
For me malcolm young of AC/DC will always be the god of downstrokes. Listening and watching him do songs like whole lotta rosie and safe in new york city much faster than record pace downpicked is insane
How about Mick Cocks of Rose Tattoo - a friend of Malcom.
How about Mick Cocks of Rose Tattoo - a friend of Malcom.
He’s great. But his playing isn’t nearly as fast or complicated imo.
@@Leebabins his syncopated rhythms can be pretty difficult and complicated to play properly
can you imagine what it would’ve been like in 1983, when Cliff, Lars & James first got in a rehearsal space with Kirk & fired up the early Metallica machine?! or imagine what it was like when James & Lars presented a new one to Kirk, gave him a demo to listen to overnight & write a solo alone, then heard him blast it out for the first time in front of them?! I imagine those dudes were ecstatic & knew that they then had all the right pieces in place to rule the thrash metal world & beyond. I bet they felt like successful alchemist (with gigantic boners)
😁😊
Ok weird
Watching Kirk explain why he always wears tape on his picking hand and putting his technique into practice helped out tons when I was learning some of their faster songs years ago. You can also tell a lot from watching their studio videos vs their live stuff that James does slack off when preforming because of how he uses both his hands to make gestures during songs while Kirk rarely does.
A lot of keyboard warriors smash kirk online but at the end of the day he does what James does rhythmically and then marches off across stage tearing into his solos. Very cool 😎.
He has also composed some some pretty cool shit in his time too i.e all solos in Fade to Black and One. Melodically they bring you to your knees.
I think everyone overlooks the contributions Kirks has had to this band cause with without some of his in put the the above mentioned songs, and more, there is a huge possibility MetallicA would not have some of the masterpieces they have today.
I really want you to break down Jon Schaffer’s fast gallop picking technique and stamina. It’s extremely difficult to get it right
Was looking for someone to mention Schaffer. Regardless of his situation now, his gallop and downpicking surpassed Hetfield by miles.
When I taught myself to play as a teenager, playing along with cds in my garage, I just downpicked everything from punk to metal, just assuming that's how you were supposed to do it and never paid enough attention to other musicians to see not everyone played like that, I just thought everyone did. 28 years later that's how I still play. It feels more natural to me and can actually play faster and more accurately than picking up and down.
James admitted, didn't he, that he was slowing down and got really depressed thinking about how he isn't what he used to be. And he said his band mates were there for him and had his back.
I imagine that's one way for Kirk to have his mate's back while James, let's not forget, is SINGING while doing those mad downstrokes!
They both complement each other!! Perfect duo
I've been thinking about that for years now. "Hetfield is and will always be the greatest metal downpicker of all time, no doutb. But you know who' downpicks as fast Hetfield?? Kirk!"
Thank you for making this video!
He gets so much heat for his solos, that its easy to forget he's playing rhythm for the entire show. Yes, he most definitely deserves credit for that. 👍🏾
Remember, Kirk has to play almost exactly what James is and keep up with him, all the while playing solos throughout a concert as well. Kirk is DEFINITELY underrated when it comes to his down picking ability
He's almost always way sloppier than James live, too.
one name that is rarely brought up in this conversation is Vogg , from Decapitated. Check their more recent albums, his right hand is INSANE
I don't know for sure, but perhaps James and Kirk have to back each other up with the downstrokes. Most Metallica songs have a guitar solo, most of which are played by Kirk. While Kirk is playing the solo, James has to continue the down picked riffs, and the Metallica formula is often an entire run of the verse into the chorus riffs. Nice video. It really got me thinking of the dynamic between them as if I'm a teen in the 90's again.
Kirk also uses small Jazz 3 picks with a little cut in them, I think this also allows him to use a lot more smaller movements with his downstrokes. I use the same picks as him and it really helped me speed up my downstrokes and alternate picking.
I recently rewatched some of Metallica’s earlier shows and I think it was ‘85 Metal Hammer festival in the UK? It was Creeping Death and I saw James doing a lot of alternate picking throughout the song except for that main riff for the verses. And you know that G-F# riff between the verses, he was alternate picking for the entire riff! And no excuse for a 2 hour show stamina issue because I think it was the opening song for the night.
My theory is that he upped his game for intense live downpicking skills before or around the Master of Puppets tour era based on some shows I watched around ‘85-87ish.
Yeah, I don't think it had turned into a "thing" yet that dowpicking was so important.
People also forget Newsted too ! Especially during late puppets Tour late in 86' and the justice tour. And he has heavier gauge bass strings using all down strokes . those three were untouchable touring that time . And yes Kirk should NOT be forgotten.
thank you
for mentioning
Mick Mars
⚡🔥⚡
Matt from Bullet For My Valentine has super sick downpickings as well
Trivium guitarrists are beasts. Specially Matt heaffy when It comes to rhythm and downpicking. You can clearly see It on his Stream
slipknot guys have some crazy downstrokes nobody seems to comment on
Always here for giving Kirk some love.
I was pretty into it watching the newer shows on YT and i noticed how Kirk is really good at rhythm as well
All of this aside, Kirk seems like such a nice dude.
Look for Michael "Olga" Algar from the Toy Dolls, particularly in their live album recorded in Stuttgart. It's insanely fast!
Try researching Jon Schaffer from Iced Earth. Possible songs: "disciples of the lie" after break after 2nd refrain, "travel in Stygian" main riff, "the hunter" the entire song almost and much more. He's overall probably the best at right hand speed/stamina/accuracy combined.
He's definitely the best especially in terms of technique. Been searching for a better player for years, never found one.
There are too many hard songs to list them all (Dante's Inferno, When The Night Falls, Stormrider, Cast In Stone, The Path I Choose etc.).
I'm so glad I studied at the Hetfield School of Picking. Age and lack of practice has slowed me down now but back when I was learning Metallica songs and playing a lot every day, my down picking was savage.
Very hard to come, way too easy to go :(
Kirk finally dominating the notes in between.
Lol
"What's upstroke?" - James
"Nothing much, what's up with you?" - Kirk
Interestingly, you should really check out Doyle from the Misfits....particularly while playing Misfits stuff, rather than his solo work where he's started doing upstrokes. It's....pretty serious.
ICED EARTH!!!!!
listen to travel in stygian and Dantes inferno from alive in Athens. Insane rhythm playing 🤘
ruclips.net/video/3Ek4aij9LgM/видео.html nearly impossible is more like it. Took me weeks to get it up to tempo
I hope you also be able to make a video speaking about Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth, he's also one hell of a tight rhythm guitarist.
Best rhythm guitarist in the genre and the most underrated.
One the first songs I learned was Caught In a Mosh. The magazine said the verses are down picked so I learned in that way, but I now realize Scott Ian alt picks it and does that on other songs while Danny Spitz uses downstrokes (another one is Be All End All)
for me Jeff Waters is the best downpicker out there, his right hand is just unstopable. Once I saw a video of him playing creeping death (toronto 87 speed) with almost no effort, he is a fucking machine
Jeff is such a tight player. You coukd say his riffs are, second to none.
I agree 100 percent...but I still just stare in awe at James playing songs like Battery and Blackened while singing at the same time. I'm a singer and I play guitar. Been trying for over 25 years to do both at the same time and still can't.
That Metallica Live video from '86 is absolutely brutal and to me the manifestation of what metal/hardrock/punk was, is and should be. Some intoxicated 20 year olds just firing on all cylinders.
brian eschbach from the black dahlia murder is severely underrated, he has ridiculous stamina and can downpick precisely at high speeds he’s my favorite
In terms of stamina and rhythm guitar Kirk is the most underrated guitar player in old school metal
3:20 the download festival in Germany :D was there I stood right in front of the mic on the left side of the stage
Everyone forgets about Scott Ian...
I never knew that kirk played downstrokes live. I always thought he filled in with alternate picking. That gives me some more respect for him.
Mick Thompson from Slipknot! As much of a hetfield fanboy I am he is insane
I practice my downstrokes all the time. It started when I read someone say that a certain Godsmack riff couldn't be played with just downstrokes, so I took that up. Now, I actually got pretty good at it!
Thanks for kirk he is so criticiized everytime 😅
He is a great lead and rythm guitar player ❤
John Browne, Jeff Waters, Josh Middleton
This! I love James, of course, but I've always wondered why he's considered the God of downpicking when Kirk mirrors him note-for-note live and plays most of the solos. Kirk deserves way more respect than he gets.
Because he mainly wrote and recorded the stuff.
I agree with you on all points of this video. Love your channel, and really dig that shirt! Keep up the awesome work, thank you.
No offense to the other guys but Jon Schaffer is and has been the only legitimate threat to James Hetfield
Excellent observation and work on behalf of Kirk🎸👏👏👏
John Browne. 🔥
Excellent video, and I am so glad that someone finally brings this up! You got yourself a new sub!!
I feel like Kirk's soloing gives him the rest his wrist needs. Alternate picking patterns or lengthened single notes are not this tiring for one's wrist, I think that's Kirk's little secret.
Jeff Hanneman and Kerry King eaaasy, people often mention Reing In Blood but listen to Hell Awaits, that whole album is a Master Class.
Kirk is definitely an underrated rhythm player
Sucks compared to Mustaine.
@@shanewalton8888 give me a break. Mustaine is nearly on the same level as Kirk. Mustaine is a better song writer. That's it.
I think doyle is a massively underrrated down picker
Very happy to see Kirk get some love! I've been saying this for years! Kirk plays everything James does live (except the solo sections), it's really weird he gets left out. I think he has been playing tighter live than James since at least the late 90's. James has been using his tricks to skip downstrokes for a looong time. I think Kirk is underrated as a rythm player, and James is underrated as a lead player.
There was an interview in the '90s of River Phoenix interviewing Flea where Flea talks about (and shows) doing all downpicking on the bass when he was in a punk band. It was a rad interview and you can totally find it online.
John Schaffer
Yes!!
Good suggestion
Phuck yeah
Yes he's a beast
scott ian is a downstroke master too