Replace Caged Bearings With Loose Bearings In Bike Headset
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- I show how to replace bearings in retainer cages with loose ball bearings. Bearings in cages are easier to install. But loose bearings have an advantage in that you have more bearings to distribute impacts. Cages also restrict movement of the bearings so that repeated impacts will be focused in the same spots. Loose ball bearings will move more freely and distribute impacts. This helps to minimize damage to the headset/crown race from brinelling.
Some of the tools used:
Dualco Grease Gun with Short Nozzle:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
Park Tool Spoke, Bearing, and Cotter Gauge - SBC-1:
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASI...
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This video saved my 2012 Electra Cruiser! My cages ball bearings were shot and when I tried to take stem/fork out of frame, I realized the AL alloy stem had galvanized with the SS steering tube. I saw your other video on how to break down the galvanic corrosion but I was unsuccessful. So I snapped off the cages, bought new 5/32" balls and swapped them out per this video and she runs extremely smoothly again!
This video not only helped me diagnose and fix a problem with the steering on my 18 speed MB, but also saved me paying someone £80 for a 10 minute job I did myself! I now also own a bearing ruler and the same grease gun you use! Wish I had learnt all this many years ago. Thank you RJ.
Thanks for this video. I bought a bike off of craigslist from some guy and about 6 miles into my 20 mild ride my headset was locking up making it extremely hard to steer. I spent a few days loosening and tightening the headset to see if it would help but even when it was freely movable it still always seemed a bit tight. I went to a bike mechanic and they told me the headset is fucked and I should buy i new bike then trying to sell me an 1800 dollar bike that i cant afford🤣 I finally decided to try this method as a last resort to buying another craigslist bike. Once I took it apart I realized some numb nut put two larger bearings in the cage which explains why it tightened up when turning. I tossed the cages and did your method and the bike is turning the best it's ever turned since the 70s I'm sure. Just wanted to say thanks for saving me a ton of money and helping my bike continue its life for many more years!
Great instruction as usual! I just did this to a Shimano 600 headset, left 2-3 bearing gap and wound up with the same amount as was in the caged bearings. It was in fact too crowded when I tried to add one more as an experiment. But the bearings were 3/16 and tightly spaced to begin with. Still an improvement and almost zero friction now.
you did a great job man! im actually learning every videos you made thanks for these i got a lot of tricks from you!
Thanks for this vid. I am restoring a '70s road bike which has ball bearings vs caged bearings. I was considering going the other way (i.e. to caged) but your discussion has convinced me to stay with the "old school" way.
Thanks for making this video! I broke the caged bearing in my friend's bike, and I couldn't find the exact same size in stock anywhere. Luckily, I found a cage bearing of slightly different diameter but with the exact same size bearings. I ended up breaking the new bearing cage to salvage the bearings, in addition to the bearings from the original caged bearing, and I had more than enough bearings to leave a ~2 bearing gap. Works great! If not for this trick, the bike would've been out of commission for a month while I order the bearing cage online!
I'm so glad I found your channel. Thanks a bunch!!!! I'm currently building my own bike for the very first time and I'm learning heaps. I've got a bunch of your videos on my playlist (Bike Maintenance). You have saved me lots of money and helped me understand little tricks like this video. My bike needed this because the front fork is Cromo and no shocks. Thanks again your the best...
Your videos are awesome. Literally every time I have a bike question you have an answer. Thanks for your work!
Thank you so much!
This vid answered so many questions that I had.
Thanks man, this was very helpful!
Thank you for the videos! They are really helpful for a beginner.
Good stuff! Exactly the vid I was looking for, especially since I'm working on my 1988 Cannondale SM700!
thank you for sharing your expertise shyflirt!
It was very helpful 👍
Thanks from Denmark 🙏
Thanks RJ you keep me very interested in bikes you explain so well how to do things i watch your videos most nights.
Your vids are great. I'm rescuing a 1970'ish Peugeot road bike and have no clue on what's underneath. Even if it's not exact these have helped give me an idea. So I have gone ahead and clicked like, and subscribe, lol. Your monologue is freaking great too!
Cool! Keep in mind some of the older French bikes had different threadings and sizes from many other other bikes. Also other stuff like the fixed cup might be right hand threaded as opposed to the left hand threaded fixed cups from most other bikes. Stuff like that.
Thanx for the help RJ !!!
Great video! Very helpful to see this for a bicycle like mine.
Good idea. More pressure surface, so less likely to have dents on the races. I also remove the cages in the wheel hubs and the bottom brackets on older bikes.
Awesome! Thanks for talking the time to share!!!
I should have watched your video before attempting it. I have been wondering why now my headset is making crackling sound when turning. I guess it is because I filled the cups with NO gaps. Thanks a lot for your great video!
Thanks for posting this great video.
Thanks, for sure I've been reading that on different sites. Don't know where to start. Lol. I guess I'll just take it slow. Thanks for all the cool vids. They are great!
Thank you, the video was very helpful!
8 years ago. I wonder how good you must be in 2023.
Thanks!Just had to do this on relatively new (less than a year) bicycle because the bottom cage bearing is a different larger /bigger ball bearings size than the top cage bearing ring and its so new design neither of the bicycle shops had such a large bearing cage ring that size.At least thats what I was told.Head tube is larger at bottom near forks than top and has bigger ball bearings as well.The bottom cage bearing ring got crushed,mangled thankfully the bottom head tube cup wasn't damaged from it.Got loose bearings put in but man it was a royal pain kept knocking them out of place even supplied with enough grease,but got it done.No more feeling like I am fighting the bicycle while riding FINALLY!Don't think I will ever buy another bicycle with tapered,flared headset tube again.
Another big plus for loose BBs is cost. You can get bulk loose BBs pretty cheap online (I get mine at VBX bearings site), but retained bearings are an arm & a leg, & usually only come in sets with a bunch of other sizes which you may not need! Most of the originally retained bearings in my bike are now loose, simply because of that fact. So the numerous positives for loose bearings outweigh the single inconvenience of dealing with the individual BBs.
Lovely, exactly what I was looking for...
finally found the video for my bike style. I'm missing bottom bearings in my bike.. I'll try installing loose bearings. good tips.
Thanx for the help
Just the info i needed. Thank you :0)
Glad it was helpful!
Just replacing my Wafarer 1977 bearing thx for your help..🇬🇧
Great video! Thanks a lot!
I want to upgrade the rear wheel bearings, from caged to loose. Can you please tell me what should be the size for ball bearing if the rear wheel hub is 25mm?
Can you put sealed bearings in the place of cage?
Thanks for this and countless other useful video guides. Can I just confirm that you use the same sized loose bearings as were in the caged set? The bearings just look really small to me on my Surly Steamroller, (they're something below 5/32, not sure exactly), so I was tempted to replace with loose 5/32s but I haven't bought anything yet. Regards
Hi RJ , I have a very similar threaded headset , I would like to know one thing . I would love a smooth and light steering as mines is quite heavy and stiff, would converting to loose bearing be any better and lighter ? Also does changing the size of the bearings make a difference ? Many thanks I wish you all the best !
I'm putting together an old M500 to ride for a while, as I've been off the bike.... and way outta shape. Though I believe the BB is sealed cartridge, I think the Tange Seiki headset could use an overhaul with loose bearings, just to help out with the extra "me".
Very good
Helpful
Great video! For caged bearings, do you also skip several ball bearings, or is this only for loose ball bearings?
hey rj is it possible to put loose bearing on threadless headset?
Great stuff. I am working up a Cannondale of similar vintage so this was especially helpful. I have two questions though--what grease do you use? And when to comes to bearings--chrome or stainless?
I use marine grease these days. I am guessing chrome. Not sure. I buy them at the bike shop.
I'd say you made a good investment on buying orange degreasers. They're actually useful when it comes to much grease or grime or road debris.
Omg all i can say to u is thankyou
I like caged ones as you simply take it out and replace the whole damaged unit.
With lose ball bearings, even if they wear slower, you cant replace the outer race of it. So if any rust or anything develops, there is no helping it, but putting back the caged bearing.
What size of spanner do i need for headset screw ?
caged bearing/zali bearings help for faster assembly, whereas the loose balls setup works just fine,..... just in case they drop down during assembly and we do not have clean ones to spare,... have been doing this self help from age six in my house mini cycles to two wheelers,. so on,.... various gadgets that use them,...
So my rear wheel hub had caged bearings, 7 bearings I believe, and I had to swap them out with cage-less bearings. I inserted 9, 1/4 size bearings and ever since then it’s been making a weird clanking noise. Should I remove a couple bearings and make it 7 on each side? Thanks in advance.
Can you make a video on how to tighten a bmx quill stem? Every time I crank the bolt down, it loosens up and I’m having trouble tightening it. I checked my stem and the steer tube and everything is not scratched up or broken.
Sounds like something is stripped. But, no i can't help you without working on it. Figure it out or take it to a shop.
Can I use Teflon grease instead?
Great video. I’ve got some brinelling on a fairly new Tange Levin headset with caged bearings. Do you think swapping to loose balls might mitigate its effect rather than having to replace the headset?
Loose bearings might have help prevent it. But won't fix it. That's like closing the barn door after the horses have eaten your children.
RJ The Bike Guy Thanks RJ. Thought that might be the case. I’ve got a new headset on order and will replace the caged bearings with loose ones from the start. Less than two years for a headset is no good.
@@RJTheBikeGuy lol! What kind of scary-ass Horses do you have around your way?! ;-D
@@jespurrier Were-horses. It was a full moon.
@@Nitecrow314 ah.... (puts away sugar cube, backs away, and starts to run for my life!)
Taking my headset apart today -- it's an '85 Miyata ATB -- the loose 5/32" bearings numbered 25 top and also 25 bottom which is ONE bearing less than full up (not 2 or 3 for space as you suggest). The more bearings, the more load that can be distributed amongst them, yes??
Stick with the 25 then. Different manuals say different things. This is from Park Tools website "It is also possible to replace retainer ball bearing with loose bearings. Grease cups to hold bearings, and place balls into cup shaped races. Leave a wide gap the size of two ball bearings, do not attempt to fully fill cup." Notice it says TWO. And other sources say two or three.
shyflirt1 Well, perhaps thinking has changed/improved over the intervening 30 (!) years since Miyata put the original bearings in my Terra Runner. (Or perhaps a bike shop tech somewhere along the line snuck an extra in there according to their personal philosophy.) Park Tools generally knows what it's talking about. I did, however, find someone else online say to fill the race and then remove ONE bearing only. I'm going to stick with what I found and keep the space to a single bearing width. Worked for 2000 miles that way this summer with no obvious repercussions. BTW Loved your instructional video on the subject!
Question, you took your adjustable race and filed it with ball bearings, then you filled your lower race with bearings. On my bike it is a threaded headset but looks a bit different, it has more of a cup on the top and bottom. So should I fill the top and bottom race with ball bearings and not the adjustable race (or the cup as you said in the video)?? Thanks, love the videos keep up the good work.
+bjenkins199 There are going to be variations. Buts but concepts are the same. Fill both cups with bearings.
+RJ The Bike Guy Thanks
Do you put less bearings in another system? When I've put one less bearing in an axle it leaves play
Axles go round and round so the bearings are never in the same spot. Headset go back and forth spending most of the time in one spot, so you want the bearings to move around.
As a general rule, should you always leave a gap in ring of loose bearings?
Very Helpful. I have a old vintage bike and i cant find the right size for it, they must not make them anymore. Loose bearings is a good idea, i'll try that
They sell most my bike is from 77 Wayfarer so replacing them all.
I'm working on a vintage bike and there were 2 of those keyed washers on the headset. I got the first on off but it was sticky and the next one is pretty tight. I am afraid to damage the threads anymore. do you have any suggestions on getting that washer off?
WD-40 and little controlled force.
What size are the bearings?
Just a tip you can use a regular strength magnet to consolidate your bearings so you don't loose them on the floor. I have baboon hands. :-)
I want to know what is the size of bearing balls
I thought that you can upgrade from 5/32" bearings to 3/16" bearings when you go to loose bearings in the headset? The race takes up room, without it you can use bigger bearings.
I noticed that top cage bearings are facing upward and the flat side downward, Isn't supposed to be that turned opposite, caged bearings faced each other?
so if i just take my cages out will i have enough bearings or do i need extras for my rear wheel?
+austin stevenson You will need more bearings then are in the cage. And this video is for a headset, not a rear wheel.
Hi there!
Would this also make sense to do on a front/rear wheel hub?
Since I could imagine that more surface contact would be a good thing in these parts, too!
Maybe. Better quality bikes don't usually have caged bearings in the hubs.
Just did so on my Torpedo Three Speed hub. We'll see, how it does!
Adrian Straub how up to now?
SUPERLATIVE
Is true that bearing cages face inwards towards the center of the head-up side bearings point down and vice-versa or do bearing cages point out-top face up and bottom face down? I always get confused about this. Is this operation necessary? caged bearings work fine unless you're really rough on your headset like motocross or jumping then you might need to change them out every year or so.
It depends on the cages. The bearings need to contact the both of the surfaces without the cage impeding.
THANKS!!!
@@pozr4530 I also think cages can get deformed over time and mar the crown race and/or cup if disfigured enough. I had an old Tange Nova headset that I wanted to save because of the beautiful chrome. I emailed Tange Seiki and communicated with the current owner concerning getting a new, appropriate crown race. He says he uses loose bearings in the headsets on his bikes.
I need help putting loose bearings back in were the pedals go?
Do you mean the bottom bracket?
I was having trouble with an old project with these caged bearings. Also had no idea you could just use bearings :)
I'm curious about your advice to not completely fill the races with bearings but instead to leave room for two or three bearings. I don't remember any such advice in your corresponding video for the bottom bracket. Why would you omit bearings for the headstock but not for the bottom bracket?
I'm changing the bearings in my Dura Ace 7400 headset. Each cage has 20 bearings but I could install 22 loose bearings. Should I install only 20?
I decided to install 21 bearings in each race.
Fill it up. Even numbers always.
Hello there,
I think i have an integerated headset which uses some propriety specialized parts. Specifically allez sprint expert 2017. Can I use loose bearings and replace the worn out lower bearing in the headset. Apparently it is caged and not sealed at the moment.
I put in loose bearings in there. Now with the slightest tightening it gets too stiff.
Then I am guessing you did something incorrectly. Pretty much you can replace caged bearings with loose bearings no problem.
@@RJTheBikeGuy
Can you please see the steps here - and see what possible part is missing due to which the steerer top goes a mm above the stem imgur.com/gallery/eTG7ZdD
1) Steerer top over reaching
2) Dust cover
3) Two micro adjusts
4) crown race
5) center sleeve
6) left the top sealed bearing in, i checked by rotating the inside and it felts okay
7) Took out the broker caged bearing and replaced with loose bearings. Left out space for 2 to 3
8) A picture of the fork to show integrated crown race for lower bearing
Despite keeping a spacer it just doesnt feel right. Slight tightening makes the rotation too stiff.
@@shanchaudhry758 I can't tell you without having worked on the bike.
Hi, RJ
Can you tell me what is the size of the cone wrench you used?
+jean carlos Not sure, but since your bike might be completely different, the size I used doesn't mean much.
RJ The Bike Guy Ohh ok. Thank you for your time.
My hack is to get more loose bearing balls is to
Take 2 cage bearing and pop out all the balls and put it in a plastic bag but to remove the bearings use pliers
Hey RJ, I replaced the bearings on a Raleigh Sprite bike and now there is a grinding noise when turning. Any Idea on why it makes the noise? Did I tighten it too much? Thanks
It could be a little tight. Loosen it just a hair. It could be the races are rough or damaged.
Thanks RJ, I'm going to start by loosing it up a it first and see how that goes.
I was assuming you cleaned everything out and used new grease when you replaced the bearings. Why would there be dirt?
I did clean everything, used new grease and bearings. I think I might have overtightened.
let me ask you this, I bought a new headset cap, & it was too big, is it common for stock steer tubes to be short? can i just get a longer compression screw? it's weird because i have a brand new mac 1 from FIT (2017) & my second question is the red plastic seal fell off bottom fork bearing ring, that's not too big of a deal is it?
You probably got the wrong size cap. No, stock steerers are generally not short. They often are longer and have spacers. No, you can't just get a longer screw. The stem needs to have enough steerer to hold onto. "Red plastic seal" can be anything and I have no idea what it is.
i'm talking about the red plastic seal on the bottom bearing ring on the bottom of the fork, & the headset cap i bought said it was 23, it was a shadow conspiracy copper, i don't have 23mm to work with!?? that's crazy, when i compare it to my stock spacers and dust cap, it's a little bit bigger but mant that's weird
That helps keep dirt and grit out.
i know but after messing with my headset for 3 hours, it kept hanging down, i said fuck it and took it off, well i wasn't about to super glue it to ball bearings. IS THERE A WAY I CAN GET IT CUT DOWN? LIKE TAKE IT SOMEWHERE? IM TALKING ABOUT THE HEADSET CAP?
So, soapy water (any dish soap plus hot water) is used as a solvent for any bicycle drivetrain, not just an orange degreaser. The important thing to do after applying orange degreaser on a bike chain is to dry it with a rag. Apply soapy water on the chain and dry it with another rag. Find a good shop quality lubricant that best suits you (my lubricant is Finish Line Wet Bike Lubricant) and use a third rag to wipe off excess lube. In short, this is a self-explanatory process. Anyone should take the time in getting the bicycle drivetrain's life extended. Anyone doesn't have the need to compromise a whole chain, derailleurs, chainrings and cranksets.
I use hot soapy water for some stuff. But for dirty grease like around the drive train, it tends to just smear the grease around. So I will use citrus degreaser or even mineral spirits.
how to get staninless steel ball gauge rollee
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000OZBK82/ref=nosim/youtube25-20
What grease should you use
What did I say I use in the video?
he said marine grease
Cone wrench size?
You need to find the one that fits YOUR bike! I have no idea what size I used on this bike so long ago.
bro I got same type of handle bars but can't remember which way the top bearing goes because it's like a double cup one over the other and they a bit bent lol..would this work on me bike lol
The bearing needs to go in so that the ball bearings smoothly roll against both races. That varies from headset to headset, bearing to bearing. Try it one one way, then try it the other.
sorted bro very informative thanks
You all should just convert your headsets to sealed bearings. it makes so much more sense.
You cannot just replace ball bearings, caged or not, with sealed bearings.
That's like saying you should get rid of your cup and cone bottom brackets. Have you heard how terrible modern bottom bracket sound? They give me a headache. The bike industry got into the habit of seeking solutions for problems that don't exist.
Hi, can I replace Sram Automatix's caged bearings with loose bearings, does it works proper?
Does it have caged bearings?
RJ The Bike Guy yes
@@potato3d372 Then you can probably replace them with loose bearings. like in the video.
Where do you purchase your bearings?
+PARABOLOUS Amazon usually. These are the bearings I used. Though a different bike might have a different size. This size is pretty common though. www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0012LFT7U/ref=nosim/youtube25-20
RJ The Bike Guy according to the guide on park tools (SHIS EC34) I have to get 34mm bearings. This seems to be impossible to find. Any ideas??
Can i use loosed bearing on threadless headset?? is it cause any damage inside headset??
+Ritukar Pandey Depends on the headset.
+RJ The Bike Guy I have threadless headset .
+Ritukar Pandey IT DEPENDS ON WHICH THREADLESS HEADSET YOU HAVE. MAYBE YES, MAYBE NO.
+RJ The Bike Guy psycho
What type of grease are you using?
Marine grease. You can get it at most auto parts stores.
shyflirt1 is it imperative to use marine grease (green type) or will just about any kind of grease do?
big fan btw! your videos helped me a lot! :)
You can use regular automotive grease. But marine grease is designed to work in wet conditions. So the bearings will be better protected if water gets in there (rain, splashing, mud, etc).
shyflirt1 okay, that makes sense. thanks!
What size bearing?
You need to match the bearings that are in your headset already.
If you regularly drop your bike from hi rises and it lands on the forks, there is nothing to worry about.
loose bearing much better quality than cage bearing except the conic bearing such as mavic or stronglight
How long will it last without a cage
42.
@@RJTheBikeGuy 42 what?
@@apexlucas Yes.
@@RJTheBikeGuy you make no sense
@@apexlucas It will last between 1 microsecond and 1 million years. Depending what you do with it. Ridiculous question!
the stem diameter is usually very close to a mandrel diameter instead of sloppy Grease, you should be able to set the bottom ones in flip it over and do the top ones woohoo revert back to 1941 loose bearings, read the story of Horace and John Dodge the Dodge Brothers were some of the first in developing so-called "sealed bearings" nothing is sealed,but hey NASA won't give up ("loose")axial sphere telemetry, well that's a moment of Arc we will never get back, PS implying cage removal is the repair you got the ozone layer to get to work on
Precision slop? Chrome is not made to beat against another Chrome surface bearing should be pre-loaded or replaced, loose bearings, does that sound right to you, with loose bearings you should have a smaller bearing in between every load bearing, and the reason for the cage is because when two bones contact each other it is such a pinpoint surface does more damage then your scenario of impact that also should not exist
I like your thinking out of the box...but the reason for doing it is not right. How smooth it needs to be? Those bearings can sustain 10x more than you will ever need...bike parts too. What is this idea actually good for is when you don't have the right size bearing...
The issue is not the bearings, but the races. The bearings in the headset tend to sit most of the time in the same location. So it will wear in those spots. More bearings, the weight is distributed more. ALWAYS use the correct size bearings!
Headset wear is not due to impact forces going through bearings. The mechanism for headset wear, aka cups pitting is from a process called Fretting.
All you're doing here is wasting time on maintenance for zero benefit. Time better spent riding your bike instead. Google "fretting headset". Better yet, buy a cartridge bearing headset and this service becomes replacing 2 cartridges instead of managing 60+ tiny balls back into place.
Seriously people do this?
So there is no way you know what the "default" number of loose bearing u need to put?
It would vary with the diameter of the head tube and the size of the bearings. Though the 5/32" bearings in this one are pretty common.
I see why most bicycle parts are Taiwanese-made. They also are made in countries like the USA, Japan, Germany, China, Great Britain, Italy and Australia.
Why not push the bearings out of the cage and reuse them?
If you are going to go through the work of tearing a headset apart, why resuse old worn bearings when you can put brand new bearings in for a couple bucks.
I think that was too much grease
Nope.
I HATE loose bearings!! Just a pain in the butt!! keep falling everywhere
I’m thinking of replacing my loose bearings with a sealed bearing
To help stop water getting in etc
I’ve replaced my bottom bracket/wheels with sealed bearings
Soooo much easier to replace
can’t be asked to mess around with loose ball bearings
Then you will have to replace the headset to one with sealed bearings.
RJ The Bike Guy can’t I just keep my current headset and just replace the loose with sealed bearing?
No.
It would be like putting a square peg into a round hole.
RJ The Bike Guy ok
Well Can I get the ball bearings in the retainer?
Replace with the loose balls
Bicycle bearings are stupid.
Sealed heavy duty bearings are the norm now.