These videos just keep getting more and more interesting, stories I’ve never heard before, criminally underrated channel, deserve much more subs and views!
Thank you for your continued support over the years. We'll get there! (And frankly, I have been able to do this full-time for a few months. It has been great)
@@HoH And why should the Allied powers have any interest in this case, it was the Allied powers who totally failed the Korean, Chinese & even Dutch underage girls who were systematically raped (not to mention murdered) on an industrial scale & for which not a single Japanese soldier or Officer has ever been held accountable.
You might have a different opinion if you were Dutch. Joining the army of the invading country is "giving aid to the enemy" and is a textbook case of treason.
Consider a fascinating case of Johanna Langefeld SS guard in Auschwitz and Ravensbruk. After war in prison in Krakow, Poland awaiting trial where most likely would be sentenced to deaths. Former Polish women prisoners of Ravensbruk helped her escaped from prions and then helped to live under false identity in communist Poland for almost 10 years and then helped her to be smuggled back to Germany. The women prisoners considered her not to deserve the death sentence because she was not bad to them and other women inmates. It is a very complex case and totally not understood in the context how we were conditioned to think about WWII and concentration camps. The Polish women showed incredible bravery that at the height of Stalinist terror and anti-German hatred after war did such an incredible feat. There is a film: vimeo.com/ondemand/johannaedu
And they say that Crime doesn't pay. A very interesting and informative video. I couldn't understand the need for English subtitles, as his English is impeccable and easily understood, so I switched it off so that it didn't distract the narrative.
I’m left wondering if their “escape” wasn’t somehow connected to preventing further damage to the reputations of agencies and personalities connected to the SOE Englandspiel disaster. Holland clamped the lid on officially releasing documents about this part of their history for longer than any of the other nations. There must be a reason....
Apparently, the Germans landed 12 soldiers, from a U-Boat, expecting little or no resistance. But, they were met by British commandos and were, virtually, wiped out.
Captain Basil liddell Hart strongly suggested that he was the father of Blitzkreig; Guderian perfected it, but the Russians coordinated the forces during the civil war and under Tukhachevsky; Please do an episode on the origins of Blitzkreig.
Baie dankie. This was quite interseting. I wonder. After the WO2 South Africa had a new (anti-English) Government. Dr. D.F Manal (DD, Utrecht) went to Holland and get true Dutchman to come and work in South Africa. I'm just wondering. Of the new Duties in Zuid-Afrika...Did that Duties have NSB-ties? Thx.
Very interesting story. Although being Dutch, I had never heard of it before. After watching this vlog I did some research on De Jonge in Dutch sources, but indeed very little is known about him. He was born in 1922, but it is unknown if, when and where he died. Btw De Jonge was not the only one of the Breda Seven who was recaptured and still served at least part of his prison sentence. Willem Polak was apprehended in West-Germany (BRD) in May 1953 with false identity papers using the name Polack. He could therefore not appeal to Hitler's decree and was handed over by German authorities to the British occupation force as an unwanted alien. The Brits subsequently extradited him to The Netherlands, where he also served part of his sentence - like De Jonge in Scheveningen Prison (near The Hague). After his release he returned to Germany, this time using his real name and receiving German citizenship after all - on the basis of the same führer directive. Polak died in 1991.
@@arnoldbissen9921, Polak (or Polyak) just means "Pole", someone from Poland. And since many Aschkenazi jews were from Poland, some of them carried it as a surname. Like all these german "steins" and "bergs" used by Aschkenazi jews as well. The surnames are not Jewish per se, but commonly used by them as well.
The führer directive being used is interesting. It's hard to argue that a decree by a dictator shouldn't been seen as the law of that time but for a west German court to uphold it's use, even for a crime of that era, seems legalistically correct but morally bankrupt.
"Legalistically correct but morally bankrupt" is business as usual. There are countless cases of that all over the globe. The complication here is that these fellows were convicted criminals. If the Dutch and others who joined up but committed no war crimes asserted their right to German citizenship, I don't see how they could be stopped. Many countries before and after have allowed foreign citizens to gain citizenship in return for military service. It is not something that Hitler came up with.
@@somewhere6 I understand that but it's not my hang up. The fact that it's specifically a führer directive and not something that either the weimar Republic or west Germany would recognise as a law that was passed in the correct manor ie through the reichstag/ bundestag. It therefore wouldn't be considered a constitutional law if not for the scrapping of the constitution by the Nazis. In many post dictatorship countries certain laws or the entire body of law from that era is scrapped and people are tried by pre dictatorial laws hence why wanted political opponents didn't serve time in many countries after the dictatorship despite them being guilty of what was then a crime
A hotly debated topic in the history of modern Germany. All in all the Federal Republic of Germany (former "West-Germany") sees itself since its founding as the successor of the german Reich. Partly because its wanted to legitimise itself against the German Democratic Republic ("East-Germany") and partly because it was encouraged by the allies so they still had someone responsible for WW2. Probably there is much more to it then i know and described here. However as the logical consequence thats why they had to respect even laws and the legal basis back at Nazi times. And thats why even today some Laws from the Nazi Goverments are still legally binding in modern, united Germany.
@@HoH Were they with the french foreign legion? saw a documentary about a french senior home for veterans that had many german legionnaires there. All fought in Diem Bien Phu, must have been regular german soldiers after ww2 not SS. SS soldiers wouldn't have been recruited into FFL if crimes against humanity or atrocities were committed by SS soldiers.
Yes. That would be fascinating. Apparently there were many former German soldiers in the Foreign Legion, in Indochina and one quarter of the French soldiers at Dien Bien Phu were Foreign Legion, so....
Great video :) In Denmark we have a case that look alot like this - it about the danish SS-man Søren Kam, he was to his death in 2015 wanted for murder in Denmark under the war, but Germany never extradited him.
Extremely interesting bit of history you presented here. You should look into the retroactive bit of "Justice" done after WW2 to Danish volunteers in German service. In my mind it reveals the problems of a colaborative Danish government in the early to mid parts of the war allowing or even encouraging such volunteers and the public and political sentiments (and the subsequent criminal penalties) after the war has ended.
@Frank Hilmar. Word of advice. The next time a pacifist Social Democrat-Radical Left government says you're free to join a murderous, Nazi military organisation consisting of ruthless war criminals, you probably shouldn't take the encouragement seriously. More likely, someone is holding a knife to their throat while the entire nation is under threat of being annihilated by the psychopathic speedheads that are currently occupying it.
@@humphreygokart2135 Thank you for expressing your point of view. My point of contention with the acts of the Danish government is that they decided on a set of rules and then after the war chose to change the rules retroactively and charge and convict people with a crime. Imagine if your government chose to enact a new increased tax today and applied it retroactively to be in effect from years earlier. Because you did not pay that tax then, you now face a charge of tax avoidance and risk criminal punishment. Doing retroactive "justice" in such a fashion is in my opinion unjust. Therefore, the people convicted solely of entering German service during the war were convicted unjustly in my opinion - just as you would be in the tax example above. Its a matter of principle. And FYI - on the very day of the German occupation of Denmark (9 April 1940) a new Danish government was created comprised of all significant political parties of the Danish Folketing, which oversaw the Danish collaboration with the German occupying forces. Thus, it was not a pacifist Social-Democrat / Radical Left government which made up the Danish government during the occupation - it was in fact a very broad political alliance ranging from the left to the right of the political spectrum. So the rules under which Danish volounteers chose to enter into German Service were approved by the vast majority of the Danish governmental power structure - who after the war decided to change the rules retroactively. This collective government ruled until August 1943, whereafter bureaucrats conducted government business until the end of the war.
@@frankhilmar7847 From a strictly legal point of view, you're right. I just don't think they were as naive as some of them tried to make themselves out to be after the war. And I don't think it makes a huge difference concerning this issue whether it was an S-R government or an S-R led coalition government.
@@humphreygokart2135 I strongly disagree that it is a strictly legal point of view. The principle that an unjust law is no law at all goes back a long way - actually attributed to St. Augustine - which (paraphrasing) states that a just law must be moral or in compliance with the law of God. He wrote this while discussing "why evil exist". This natural law acknowledges that authority is not legitimate unles it is good and right. This principle is acknowledged across the world as a standard / basic legal maxim. Martin Luther King Jr. even quoted this maxim about the Jim Crow laws of the segregated southern parts of the USA during the fight for civil rights in the 1960'es. I included my bit about the collective Danish government to provide historical context - they were all in agreement at the time - and then changed their minds after the war (employing an unjust principle), when it became expedient to do so. You may note that in April 1940 Germany and the Soviet Union had just worked together in occupying Poland and Germany had allowed the Soviet Union to invade and take over the 3 Baltic states as well as Bessarabia in Romania and that the Soviet Union had pummelled Finland into submission (after the hard fighting in the Winter War). Germany and the Soviet Union were de facto allies - thanks to the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact. Thus, German power was increasing and collaboration might have been seen as a way to minimize suffering of the Danish people. In May and June 1940 Germany conquered France and the Low countries and in effect isolated Great Britain as the sole effective combatant in Europe. It was not until 1943 that the Danish collaboration had become so strained that it broke. At that time the fortunes of war had turned against Germany, and I suspect that may have played a role in the decision process of the Danish government. I do not think that the politicians were naive - only well versed in real-politik. They chose to collaborate while German power was overpowering and self-evident and as German power vaned and local Danish resistance started to grow, the Danish collaboration became so strained that it finally broke. When the allied powers after the war had to decide whether or not Denmark should be counted among the allied combatants, there was some dissent - among other reasons because of the collaboration and because the Danish people had not suffered as much as the people of other occupied countries. However, at that time the Cold War mindset had begun to rear its head and Denmark controls the waterways into the Baltic Sea limiting Soviet access to open waters - so perhaps having Denmark as part of a Western European sphere of influence was preferred by the USA and Great Britain. People make bad decisions all the time - sometimes they might think they make them for the right reasons. I have learned from that part of history that some of the volounteers were devout followers of the worst parts of German extremist ideology, others wanted to fight against Communism and others were just unemployed or thought they had nothing better to do.
@@frankhilmar7847 Jesus man, you're totally misreading me. When I wrote: "From a strictly legal point of view, you're right," I was just agreeing with your own statement when you said : "It's a matter of principle." And when I said: "I just don't think they were as naive as some of them tried to make themselves out to be after the war," I was talking about the SS volunteers, not the politicians."
As a German that was a tough watch. It just underlines how shallow the denazification really was. For different reasons and in very different ways in the East and West the new administrations failed miserably. And as if this wasn’t bad enough, to then know that countries like Japan did an even worse job at acknowledging their past is just ridiculously saddening and infuriating.
@@rokinz3270 - You dopey bloody kiwi !! It was 7 Dutchmen that escaped to Germany, not 7 Germans, in Jail in the Netherlands, escaping back to Germany P.S - Maybe you should go and ask Donald Trump about Nazi born in a Country way, WAY outside Germany. And not your garden variety "rascist", either, I'm speaking of card carrying National Socialist in America. And they don't think there at a "Cos play", either. They take there little cult dead seriously !! P.S - When they say S.F.H, you better believe they take it a bit more seriously than a few blokes I could name, your side of the Tasman !! EH, BRO??
@decbaa 22 My father used to continue to distrust the Germans (for context, I was born in 1950) and, judging from this anecdotal historical incident, he was right. However, I am also impressed how it appears from reading and from my personal experience with German friends that this generation of Germans has truly faced up to their Nazi history. I admire them for that.
Nice you brought this to our attention. I actually had a small role in a movie/documentary about the Koepel last year. But this fact wasn’t a part of it. Weird enough.
Great video. It's so bizarre that West Germany would refuse to extradite the escaped prisoners. I guess they just correctly assumed that their allies, namely the United States, wouldn't have the balls or political will to do anything about the situation.
Mag ik vragen of u een Nederlander bent? Ik heb gemerkt dat je Nederlandse uitspraak foutloos is, terwijl je soms Duitse woorden verkeerd uitspreekt. Erg bedankt!
Enjoy your videos but try to normalize your volume across all videos so that they are all the same volume. I am forever having to adjust my volume, bring it right up or right down, annoying. Normalizing your audio will make your channel more professional though mind you there are lots of bigger channel that don't do so due to ignorance and generally not having not much of a clue of audio engineering.
Thank you for the tip, Allan. You're right, audio engineering and editing are some of the main difficulties of running this channel. I am not very tech-savvy, but editing videos in a consistent manner isn't too difficult. However, audio editing is a real tough job, to be honest. I have read plenty of guides about editing audio but still have not found the 'holy grail'. I'll keep working on improving!
Can you talk about allied war crimes for once? I'm fed up hearing about German crimes as if they are the sole source of all crimes. Talk about the truth of American or Russian attrocities and bring balance.
Absolutely Unbelievable! A convicted War Criminal allowed to walk free in post war Germany! How, in God's teeth, was that allowed? I am, to put it mildly, quite shocked at this revelation.
Germany got quite a population decrease (18 million) after the unconditional surrender. Easier to carry out old prewar plans on the now defenseless. Looks like unconditional surrender means THEY can do anything to you under their own defined legal terms. (Germany then had 'willingly' given them permission to depopulate.) I have met Dutch SS volunteers on CANADA territory. Amazing experiences.
Despite the large military and civilian losses the arrival of the ethnic German populations expelled from eastern nations resulted in the population of the 4 zones being bigger than Germany's prewar population .
Well said, all armies indulge in wanton killing for whatever reason they believe justifies their actions. Combat is a vacation, that's why it's called WAR, the only objective is to still be standing at the end .
Extradition is still the same and they for sure had been Germans based on the Führererlass. Would be the same vice versa and law has to be the same for all citizens. The most important point: that law had not changed and the fugitive must have known that. They had good lawyers. And back then there had been a new war across the border: the smuggling war bringing Coffee to Germany even like nowadays cause Coffee is a lot cheaper in the Netherlands
Interesting is that the Dutch newspapers called them "political" prisoners, because that´s exactly what they were, not criminals! Forgotten is the fact, that so many Dutch, French, Belgian, Indian, Latvian, Ukrainian and Danish joined the SS. The Waffen-SS was the first true European ared force ...
Well you might have a good point about the European army aspect. And it just showed us why we do not want "a true European force". The SS variety killed innocent people and performed many other atrocities.
This illustrates the practical sense of the Israeli Mossad. When they locate a contemporary terrorist, they often don't bother with extradition, which may only allow the killer to get away. They simply execute them where they are.
If you're interested in the political theory behind it, consider reading Benedict Anderson's 1983 book 'Imagined Communities' and Eric Hobsbawm's 'the Invention of Tradition'.
These videos just keep getting more and more interesting, stories I’ve never heard before, criminally underrated channel, deserve much more subs and views!
Thank you for your continued support over the years. We'll get there! (And frankly, I have been able to do this full-time for a few months. It has been great)
@@HoH And why should the Allied powers have any interest in this case, it was the Allied powers who totally failed the Korean, Chinese & even Dutch underage girls who were systematically raped (not to mention murdered) on an industrial scale & for which not a single Japanese soldier or Officer has ever been held accountable.
I love this guy and channel.
Much Love from Czechia 🇨🇿
Fascinating story - thanks for bringing this to light.
Good for them. Hope they lived long, happy lives.
You might have a different opinion if you were Dutch. Joining the army of the invading country is "giving aid to the enemy" and is a textbook case of treason.
@@gwine9087 Some things are more important than nationality.
@@andreasiversen3440 Like joining the invader? Wow.
@@gwine9087 Like following a higher calling and join in a racial and political crusade against jewish communism.
@@andreasiversen3440 Ah, the Nazis could not have said it better.
Consider a fascinating case of Johanna Langefeld SS guard in Auschwitz and Ravensbruk. After war in prison in Krakow, Poland awaiting trial where most likely would be sentenced to deaths. Former Polish women prisoners of Ravensbruk helped her escaped from prions and then helped to live under false identity in communist Poland for almost 10 years and then helped her to be smuggled back to Germany. The women prisoners considered her not to deserve the death sentence because she was not bad to them and other women inmates. It is a very complex case and totally not understood in the context how we were conditioned to think about WWII and concentration camps. The Polish women showed incredible bravery that at the height of Stalinist terror and anti-German hatred after war did such an incredible feat. There is a film:
vimeo.com/ondemand/johannaedu
1:35 the irony of a ss war criminal with "Polak" as a surname
@Nidhi Roy no,but it is used as a derogative term against poles.
@Nidhi Roy It is a jewish name. Special in the Netherlands
Great video and a incredible story !
And they say that Crime doesn't pay. A very interesting and informative video. I couldn't understand the need for English subtitles, as his English is impeccable and easily understood, so I switched it off so that it didn't distract the narrative.
Thanks Dave, I upload subtitles for viewers with hearing loss or who aren't fluent in English. They sometimes find the narrative difficult to follow.
Oh, the 3 of us were just driving around looking at the pretty flowers and saw these seven guys who needed to lift. No problem...
That was basically their defense, yeah. 😅
@@HoH Were they wearing prisoner uniforms?
@@billymule961 orange is the new black?
I’ve heard less convincing defenses before.
Fascinating stuff - thanks!
I've heard of Bikker before - but the rest is new to me.
who about this one?
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auke_Pattist
Very nice video, a suggestion for another "Ajax, The Dutch, The War" by Simon Kuper.
Intresting video! Love to learn new things about my country.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great content as usual.
Thank you, Darell!
Thanks for an interesting video!
I’m left wondering if their “escape” wasn’t somehow connected to preventing further damage to the reputations of agencies and personalities connected to the SOE Englandspiel disaster. Holland clamped the lid on officially releasing documents about this part of their history for longer than any of the other nations. There must be a reason....
thanks
Topic suggestion. The difference between the resistance groups. The Communist and they others
There was an alleged german army/ navy landing on isle of wight I'd love to hear more about...
Apparently, the Germans landed 12 soldiers, from a U-Boat, expecting little or no resistance. But, they were met by British commandos and were, virtually, wiped out.
Great content!
Thank you, Alex!
Can you tell something about the East Belgians who got conscripted in the German Army because they mainly were of German descent?
I can tell you that many an American soldier in hiding was ratted out by Belgians during the Battle of the Bulge.
Captain Basil liddell Hart strongly suggested that he was the father of Blitzkreig; Guderian perfected it, but the Russians coordinated the forces during the civil war and under Tukhachevsky; Please do an episode on the origins of Blitzkreig.
Yes, captains as a rule plan strategies in modern armies.😆😆
Fun fact dutch PoWs also escaped from colditz castle with out beeing recaptured.
I remember that. They were very clever in how they did it.
Baie dankie. This was quite interseting. I wonder. After the WO2 South Africa had a new (anti-English) Government. Dr. D.F Manal (DD, Utrecht) went to Holland and get true Dutchman to come and work in South Africa. I'm just wondering. Of the new Duties in Zuid-Afrika...Did that Duties have NSB-ties? Thx.
Thank you .
Very interesting story. Although being Dutch, I had never heard of it before.
After watching this vlog I did some research on De Jonge in Dutch sources, but indeed very little is known about him. He was born in 1922, but it is unknown if, when and where he died.
Btw De Jonge was not the only one of the Breda Seven who was recaptured and still served at least part of his prison sentence.
Willem Polak was apprehended in West-Germany (BRD) in May 1953 with false identity papers using the name Polack. He could therefore not appeal to Hitler's decree and was handed over by German authorities to the British occupation force as an unwanted alien. The Brits subsequently extradited him to The Netherlands, where he also served part of his sentence - like De Jonge in Scheveningen Prison (near The Hague). After his release he returned to Germany, this time using his real name and receiving German citizenship after all - on the basis of the same führer directive. Polak died in 1991.
Interesting. Isn't Polak a jewish name?
@@arnoldbissen9921, Polak (or Polyak) just means "Pole", someone from Poland. And since many Aschkenazi jews were from Poland, some of them carried it as a surname. Like all these german "steins" and "bergs" used by Aschkenazi jews as well. The surnames are not Jewish per se, but commonly used by them as well.
The führer directive being used is interesting. It's hard to argue that a decree by a dictator shouldn't been seen as the law of that time but for a west German court to uphold it's use, even for a crime of that era, seems legalistically correct but morally bankrupt.
"Legalistically correct but morally bankrupt" is business as usual. There are countless cases of that all over the globe. The complication here is that these fellows were convicted criminals. If the Dutch and others who joined up but committed no war crimes asserted their right to German citizenship, I don't see how they could be stopped. Many countries before and after have allowed foreign citizens to gain citizenship in return for military service. It is not something that Hitler came up with.
@@somewhere6 I understand that but it's not my hang up. The fact that it's specifically a führer directive and not something that either the weimar Republic or west Germany would recognise as a law that was passed in the correct manor ie through the reichstag/ bundestag. It therefore wouldn't be considered a constitutional law if not for the scrapping of the constitution by the Nazis.
In many post dictatorship countries certain laws or the entire body of law from that era is scrapped and people are tried by pre dictatorial laws hence why wanted political opponents didn't serve time in many countries after the dictatorship despite them being guilty of what was then a crime
A hotly debated topic in the history of modern Germany. All in all the Federal Republic of Germany (former "West-Germany") sees itself since its founding as the successor of the german Reich. Partly because its wanted to legitimise itself against the German Democratic Republic ("East-Germany") and partly because it was encouraged by the allies so they still had someone responsible for WW2. Probably there is much more to it then i know and described here.
However as the logical consequence thats why they had to respect even laws and the legal basis back at Nazi times. And thats why even today some Laws from the Nazi Goverments are still legally binding in modern, united Germany.
@E Smidt You mean eliminating not illuminating.
Not really. Germany's current gun control laws are basically the same laws that the National Socialist Party pushed through in 1935.
Suggested topic: former waffen ss soldiers fighting for the French in Indo China
That's very interesting, thank you for the suggestion SiMun!
@@HoH Were they with the french foreign legion? saw a documentary about a french senior home for veterans that had many german legionnaires there. All fought in Diem Bien Phu, must have been regular german soldiers after ww2 not SS. SS soldiers wouldn't have been recruited into FFL if crimes against humanity or atrocities were committed by SS soldiers.
Yes. That would be fascinating. Apparently there were many former German soldiers in the Foreign Legion, in Indochina and one quarter of the French soldiers at Dien Bien Phu were Foreign Legion, so....
@@Guvnor6 The Foreign Legion has always been known as a place where "Men without a country" could go to join. Few questions asked.
@@Guvnor6 Many were Waffen SS troops.
I saw that prison I still remember it
It would be good to see a video about Menten
Great video :)
In Denmark we have a case that look alot like this - it about the danish SS-man Søren Kam, he was to his death in 2015 wanted for murder in Denmark under the war, but Germany never extradited him.
Thank you b-dk. I hadn't heard of Soren Kam, but will read up on him!
Oh no - another good history channel I have to watch. Life is good and there's still many stories left to be told about WWII - subbed!
Welcome aboard! It's always nice to receive comments like yours.
Great video
Thank you
The judge in 53 was the same judge in 44.
Extremely interesting bit of history you presented here. You should look into the retroactive bit of "Justice" done after WW2 to Danish volunteers in German service. In my mind it reveals the problems of a colaborative Danish government in the early to mid parts of the war allowing or even encouraging such volunteers and the public and political sentiments (and the subsequent criminal penalties) after the war has ended.
@Frank Hilmar. Word of advice. The next time a pacifist Social Democrat-Radical Left government says you're free to join a murderous, Nazi military organisation consisting of ruthless war criminals, you probably shouldn't take the encouragement seriously. More likely, someone is holding a knife to their throat while the entire nation is under threat of being annihilated by the psychopathic speedheads that are currently occupying it.
@@humphreygokart2135 Thank you for expressing your point of view. My point of contention with the acts of the Danish government is that they decided on a set of rules and then after the war chose to change the rules retroactively and charge and convict people with a crime. Imagine if your government chose to enact a new increased tax today and applied it retroactively to be in effect from years earlier. Because you did not pay that tax then, you now face a charge of tax avoidance and risk criminal punishment.
Doing retroactive "justice" in such a fashion is in my opinion unjust. Therefore, the people convicted solely of entering German service during the war were convicted unjustly in my opinion - just as you would be in the tax example above. Its a matter of principle.
And FYI - on the very day of the German occupation of Denmark (9 April 1940) a new Danish government was created comprised of all significant political parties of the Danish Folketing, which oversaw the Danish collaboration with the German occupying forces. Thus, it was not a pacifist Social-Democrat / Radical Left government which made up the Danish government during the occupation - it was in fact a very broad political alliance ranging from the left to the right of the political spectrum. So the rules under which Danish volounteers chose to enter into German Service were approved by the vast majority of the Danish governmental power structure - who after the war decided to change the rules retroactively. This collective government ruled until August 1943, whereafter bureaucrats conducted government business until the end of the war.
@@frankhilmar7847 From a strictly legal point of view, you're right. I just don't think they were as naive as some of them tried to make themselves out to be after the war. And I don't think it makes a huge difference concerning this issue whether it was an S-R government or an S-R led coalition government.
@@humphreygokart2135 I strongly disagree that it is a strictly legal point of view. The principle that an unjust law is no law at all goes back a long way - actually attributed to St. Augustine - which (paraphrasing) states that a just law must be moral or in compliance with the law of God. He wrote this while discussing "why evil exist". This natural law acknowledges that authority is not legitimate unles it is good and right. This principle is acknowledged across the world as a standard / basic legal maxim. Martin Luther King Jr. even quoted this maxim about the Jim Crow laws of the segregated southern parts of the USA during the fight for civil rights in the 1960'es.
I included my bit about the collective Danish government to provide historical context - they were all in agreement at the time - and then changed their minds after the war (employing an unjust principle), when it became expedient to do so.
You may note that in April 1940 Germany and the Soviet Union had just worked together in occupying Poland and Germany had allowed the Soviet Union to invade and take over the 3 Baltic states as well as Bessarabia in Romania and that the Soviet Union had pummelled Finland into submission (after the hard fighting in the Winter War). Germany and the Soviet Union were de facto allies - thanks to the Molotov-Ribbentrop non-aggression pact. Thus, German power was increasing and collaboration might have been seen as a way to minimize suffering of the Danish people. In May and June 1940 Germany conquered France and the Low countries and in effect isolated Great Britain as the sole effective combatant in Europe. It was not until 1943 that the Danish collaboration had become so strained that it broke. At that time the fortunes of war had turned against Germany, and I suspect that may have played a role in the decision process of the Danish government.
I do not think that the politicians were naive - only well versed in real-politik. They chose to collaborate while German power was overpowering and self-evident and as German power vaned and local Danish resistance started to grow, the Danish collaboration became so strained that it finally broke.
When the allied powers after the war had to decide whether or not Denmark should be counted among the allied combatants, there was some dissent - among other reasons because of the collaboration and because the Danish people had not suffered as much as the people of other occupied countries. However, at that time the Cold War mindset had begun to rear its head and Denmark controls the waterways into the Baltic Sea limiting Soviet access to open waters - so perhaps having Denmark as part of a Western European sphere of influence was preferred by the USA and Great Britain.
People make bad decisions all the time - sometimes they might think they make them for the right reasons. I have learned from that part of history that some of the volounteers were devout followers of the worst parts of German extremist ideology, others wanted to fight against Communism and others were just unemployed or thought they had nothing better to do.
@@frankhilmar7847 Jesus man, you're totally misreading me. When I wrote: "From a strictly legal point of view, you're right," I was just agreeing with your own statement when you said : "It's a matter of principle." And when I said: "I just don't think they were as naive as some of them tried to make themselves out to be after the war," I was talking about the SS volunteers, not the politicians."
Good morning. I would like to know about the Irish who fought in the Wehrmacht, in particular the SS during the second world war. Thank you. Mike
May be they never committed any war crime..
Good work ….. I’ve subbed
As a German that was a tough watch. It just underlines how shallow the denazification really was. For different reasons and in very different ways in the East and West the new administrations failed miserably. And as if this wasn’t bad enough, to then know that countries like Japan did an even worse job at acknowledging their past is just ridiculously saddening and infuriating.
Like they say “you can take the Nazis out of Germany but you you can’t take the Nazi out of the German”
@@rokinz3270 - You dopey bloody kiwi !! It was 7 Dutchmen that escaped to
Germany, not 7 Germans, in Jail in the Netherlands, escaping back to Germany
P.S - Maybe you should go and ask Donald Trump about Nazi born in a Country
way, WAY outside Germany. And not your garden variety "rascist", either,
I'm speaking of card carrying National Socialist in America. And they don't
think there at a "Cos play", either. They take there little cult dead seriously !!
P.S - When they say S.F.H, you better believe they take it a bit more seriously
than a few blokes I could name, your side of the Tasman !! EH, BRO??
@@karlmuller3690 Germany refused to extradite them and didnt prosecute (most of) them for war crimes so Roki's comment is relevant
@@scottabc72 - Read it through again mate!
@decbaa 22
My father used to continue to distrust the Germans (for context, I was born in 1950) and, judging from this anecdotal historical incident, he was right. However, I am also impressed how it appears from reading and from my personal experience with German friends that this generation of Germans has truly faced up to their Nazi history. I admire them for that.
8:10 i thought they WERE convicted for their crimes. they just escaped afterward.
Tell us something about Poncke Princen. Interesting man.
Don't forget operation paperclip the Allies gave pardons aswell
Nice you brought this to our attention.
I actually had a small role in a movie/documentary about the Koepel last year. But this fact wasn’t a part of it.
Weird enough.
Glad you enjoyed it, Bert. It must be strange to learn of this event after being so closely involved with a documentary about the prison.
Great video. It's so bizarre that West Germany would refuse to extradite the escaped prisoners. I guess they just correctly assumed that their allies, namely the United States, wouldn't have the balls or political will to do anything about the situation.
Yes, as always blame the US. Communist stooge.
I live in Breda!!!!!
Bro does not waste time with intros lmfao
Where did their crimes occur?
This was a great travesty. I like to think Hell is punishing them now or will one day.
Mag ik vragen of u een Nederlander bent? Ik heb gemerkt dat je Nederlandse uitspraak foutloos is, terwijl je soms Duitse woorden verkeerd uitspreekt. Erg bedankt!
Het viel mij gelijk al op. Ben wel 100% zeker dat hij Nederlander is.
Enjoy your videos but try to normalize your volume across all videos so that they are all the same volume. I am forever having to adjust my volume, bring it right up or right down, annoying.
Normalizing your audio will make your channel more professional though mind you there are lots of bigger channel that don't do so due to ignorance and generally not having not much of a clue of audio engineering.
Thank you for the tip, Allan. You're right, audio engineering and editing are some of the main difficulties of running this channel. I am not very tech-savvy, but editing videos in a consistent manner isn't too difficult. However, audio editing is a real tough job, to be honest.
I have read plenty of guides about editing audio but still have not found the 'holy grail'. I'll keep working on improving!
in english we call the netherlands: holland.
Goooöd document!
Can you talk about allied war crimes for once? I'm fed up hearing about German crimes as if they are the sole source of all crimes. Talk about the truth of American or Russian attrocities and bring balance.
"war criminals" prb means simply joining the Waffen ss without doing anything wrong.
The Cold War was the priority not a few soldiers following orders from a past war.....
Unfortunately alot of dutch nsb and dutch ss got away with their crimes. Like the beul of westerbork.
Hey man can u make video bout operation long jump? 🙏 channel is great 👍
Hi Jason, absolutely. In fact, it's on my shortlist!
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G E K O L I S E E R D
Breda! Parel van het Zuiden.
Polak is een naam uit de regio. Er wonen veel Polakken in de omgeving van Breda
Absolutely Unbelievable! A convicted War Criminal allowed to walk free in post war Germany! How, in God's teeth, was that allowed? I am, to put it mildly, quite shocked at this revelation.
Sad about their alleged war crimes but good for the anti communist Seven and their escape. I assume they became law abiding citizens in Germany.
Lousy fiver
Germany got quite a population decrease (18 million) after the unconditional surrender. Easier to carry out old prewar plans on the now defenseless. Looks like unconditional surrender means THEY can do anything to you under their own defined legal terms. (Germany then had 'willingly' given them permission to depopulate.) I have met Dutch SS volunteers on CANADA territory. Amazing experiences.
Despite the large military and civilian losses the arrival of the ethnic German populations expelled from eastern nations resulted in the population of the 4 zones being bigger than Germany's prewar population .
Idiot
“When this war is over we will be accused of an infinity of murder as if all men at war everywhere hadn’t behaved the same way” The Forgotten Soldier
One of my favorite books.
Yes mine too
Well said, all armies indulge in wanton killing for whatever reason they believe justifies their actions. Combat is a vacation, that's why it's called WAR, the only objective is to still be standing at the end .
True. Hermann Göring Said “the victor is the judge and jury and the vanquished is the accused”
winner justice, my opinion
all hypocrisy even in dutch history
Extradition is still the same and they for sure had been Germans based on the Führererlass.
Would be the same vice versa and law has to be the same for all citizens.
The most important point: that law had not changed and the fugitive must have known that. They had good lawyers.
And back then there had been a new war across the border: the smuggling war bringing Coffee to Germany even like nowadays cause Coffee is a lot cheaper in the Netherlands
Glad they escaped 😂😂😂😂
Interesting is that the Dutch newspapers called them "political" prisoners, because that´s exactly what they were, not criminals! Forgotten is the fact, that so many Dutch, French, Belgian, Indian, Latvian, Ukrainian and Danish joined the SS. The Waffen-SS was the first true European ared force ...
Well you might have a good point about the European army aspect. And it just showed us why we do not want "a true European force". The SS variety killed innocent people and performed many other atrocities.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
S
NO they did NOT "get away with it" They are now being judged by GOD and they will somehow pay for their crimes after sentencing to eternal hellfire...
This illustrates the practical sense of the Israeli Mossad. When they locate a contemporary terrorist, they often don't bother with extradition, which may only allow the killer to get away. They simply execute them where they are.
Or put them on the payroll like they did Walter Rauff and Otto Skorzeny.
"As Dutch as can be"
Now we know that "nationality" (like "race") is just a social construct.
If you're interested in the political theory behind it, consider reading Benedict Anderson's 1983 book 'Imagined Communities' and Eric Hobsbawm's 'the Invention of Tradition'.
Genetics?