As a very minor musician who writes, plays, records, mixes and produces her own stuff, this video on the importance of retouching reminds me of the final, final, FINAL stage that music peeps try to duck out of: mastering. Ooh heck, that's when things get tricky.
Couldn't agree more. The hardest part of the retouching/editing process is stepping back and looking at the picture. When I look at some of my old work (or listen to ALL of my old music) I wonder, what was I thinking!? There is a lot to be said for finishing a retouch and setting the image aside for a day or two. Look at it with a fresh perspective and only then finish it off with whatever global adjustments are needed. Showing your work to a trusted friend is a great tool, if they are honest and you have a thick skin, and if you are willing to adjust accordingly. You know I am now intrigued and will not rest until I track down some of this "Elli P music" and give it a listen.
You're right, it IS a lot of information! But more importantly, it's a lot of information presented clearly, skillfully, with humor and passion, and is so well thought out that with just the few notes I took while watching it, you just totally revolutionized my work flow! Can't thank you enough for these invaluable videos!
Wow 😮Alan your knowledge in the Feld of Macro Photography is just mind blowing. That’s mate for your time and effort you put into making these very informative videos, I have learnt so much from you. Cheers Mark
Sweet baby Jesus … people do this for fun? Not knowing anything about macro photography, nor having ever had any interest in it, I decided to force myself to watch this. This entire process is extremely informative. I really thought you guys superglued insects to paper towels and took, threw on macro lenses, took a single image, and called it a day. Much respect!
Oh dear - did I look like I was having fun? That was unintentional. You know, I have never actually thought about it in terms of fun. I don't know if it would qualify as fun, but I do know that it is incredibly absorbing and can be pretty challenging. The results can be absolutely stunning too. But fun? It is definitely "addictive" (in quotes because it's not, really) and there is a really interesting community of photographers that forms around a channel like this. But if I may make a personal observation, any human who has the insight to appreciate that there may be some value in forcing themselves to watch a long and tedious video on a subject they have no interest in, well, that human sounds a lot like a macro photographer to me. Are you absolutely sure you are not? And are you having fun yet?
@@AllanWallsPhotography LOL no. Maybe once I go bald and have to send my D850 to NJ I may reconsider that position ,though. It's kind of ironic that I do these things, though. Half of me is one of the most disgustingly lazy and sociopathic individuals around, the other half of me wants to save the world. To be honest, I love falling down these rabbit holes in the hopes of discovering the elusive elixir of understanding and/or enhancing images. It truly defies me that there are so few resources, barring that guy on Typepad and some rantings from printers of the 70s/80s/90s as to what constitutes good images. Maybe I'm avoiding macro photography as it would force me over the edge as I obssess over blending the hairs of layers 500 and 501. Do you keep a revolver nearby just in case this all becomes too much?
Thanks Allan, excellent tutorial. So I finally received the adapter to start using my Mitty with the bellows and Raynox. Only a couple stacks thus far but wow. I'm applying your techniques for slabbing and I do see improvement. Cropping out any extra black background, as you suggest, is an excellent tip.
I am so glad! I thought I might have gone too far with this video - far too much detail. So it feels like vindication to see so many folks picking up some of these ideas and running with them. And you described the objective perfectly - wow!
I was getting ready to buy Helicon Pro before I heard this, just now. So you have my attention now (I’ve been on travel to home, so now I am ready to build out my Mititoyo 5x rig). I will be stacking soon. I have only used Helicon but have been having some issues with it over the last couple of years.
Allan, you’ve gone and changed my entire processing workflow and I’m very upset. Mostly because I’m sorry I hadn’t employed this sooner. My before and after stacks bear no resemblance at all. The improvement is exponential and there’s no going back. Slabbing has made stacking enjoyable, and careful editing possible and not overwhelming. Just know that you did NOT go too far with this video. The detail was on target and appropriate - more like this please. FYI - I’m now capturing macro using a Beseler CS-21 copy stand, therefore working vertically. A plexiglass base elevated 3” above the stand surface allows me to slide in and out backgrounds to find a good complement to the subject. The real effective change is the use of a paper lantern that attaches to the camera body and accordions in and out as I focus. The soft, diffused light is terrific. Not my invention, but imitation seems to be a photographers friend. Thx again.
Allan. I may be doing something wrong, but I first run a standard PMax and DMap. Then I slab. However, I don’t need to export the slabs and reimport. I can edit with the slabs in the output area. Just like using PMax to retouch DMap. I noted that when I first tried it, I was in the overlap mode where you use S key to see the image you are using to retouch and it did not work. Then I took it out of the overlap method and went back into the overlap method and low and behold, I can retouch using the slabs in the overlap method on the Dmap or Pmax. It is a lot simpler and quicker than exporting those images and bring them back in. Thanks for what you do, you are great. Even if I did not win the TShirt Contest.
Have you ever compared the output images from your full Pmax and Dmap stacking runs to the final images obtained by stacking the Pmax slab outputs? That is why I use this method and skip the full stacks completely. I have found the Pmax output from stacking the slabs to be more accurate with greater preservation of fine detail in almost every case. But the difference can be pretty subtle and depends hugely on how the images were shot. But next time you are doing a 100+ stack, do it twice - one the way you describe and once without the full Pmax and Dmap. I think you will find a significant time saving and the same or higher image quality from stacking the slabs rather than the original images. It took me two years of going back and forth before deciding on this slabbing/retouching workflow, so I can understand any skepticism. Keep me posted, I would love to hear how your experience compares. Thanks for the great feedback, and sorry about the tee shirt competition - though you may get another crack at the random drawing if I don't hear from the second winner soon!
Thanks, this workflow is going to be available in written form, along with everything else I talk about on this channel, in a book on macro photography that I am currently working on. When I get a chance I will try to put an abbreviated version of this workflow on the website. The article that is on my blog does provide much of the information - www.allanwallsphotography.com/blog/retouch
@@AllanWallsPhotography A BOOK! That’s great news and a nice supplement to your videos. No pressure, but do you have a rough time frame? Will it be self-published or have you contracted with a publisher? These are difficult times for an author with limited opportunities to promote their work due to COVID-19, but since yours is such a niche topic like macro, you should have a ready and waiting audience. Best of luck with it and please let us know if advance sales are an option.
@@hanklevesque426 Well, if you were trying to decide if you should wait to start the new Stephen King (excellent by all accounts), I wouldn't wait. You should have plenty of time. This has been a work in progress for some time and I keep adding chapters. Loads of details still to work out but I want it to be as comprehensive and useful as possible so I am resisting cutting any corners. I intend to keep up my video production schedule, and that takes up a massive amount of time. But thanks for the enthusiastic words!
I wouldn't bother. I use a cut off of about 40. Above that, there is an advantage in the retouch, otherwise probably not. Slabbing is primarily a way to take control of the retouch workflow and the more individual images, the more time and effort you can save.
It has happened to me but only when I ask it to do something without giving it the resources. It is almost always due to inadequate application memory. Allocating more memory before trying to stack a huge job is worth a try. The bets thing you can do is keep your hard drive with as much room as possible. Since trashing 200GB of auto-saves from Premiere I have not experienced a single crash. I do not save projects - they are gigantic - I import the images run the program, finish retouching, save the final image and throw everything else away except, maybe, the slabs. I know the program can multitask, but I prefer to run one stack at a time - old computer.
@@AllanWallsPhotography What I also do now, is "Save output image" with the slabbed files, and save them at my external drive. Now I can start retouching with that files ("Add files") when I want/have time. It's a fast workflow and you can start over to give it an other try, dimension or something. Saves a lot of work/time.
@@keeskraaijeveld4704 The problem with that approach is if you wait to stack the slabs at a later date you will no longer have access to the original source images if you need them. I try to get it all done at once, but if I can't I am sure to save any source files that I might need.
Allen, I just bought the rms to m42 adapter. But, how to I attach it to my lens. My lens has a filter size of 72mm. I know I can use stop down rings.. But, there's to female threads for the m42.
You are correct. M42 is a size of extension tube usually used in astrophotography, I believe. I keep a couple of M42 to F-mount adapters and also a couple of m42-m43 step ups, a common size and part of the regular series. What are you trying to accomplish? I presume you have a small finite objective like the Amscope 4X you are trying to mount? The easiest would be to get an adapter that is 72mm male and 42mm female on the other... but be careful, a lot of M42 tubes have a 1MM thread pitch and would not mount securely on the more common 0.75 thread pitch used for filters.
@@AllanWallsPhotography yes, I been watching your videos and already ordered the Amscope 4x and also the rms/m42 adapter. I will be using a Tamron Lens/nikon with a filter size of 72. You mentioned that if you're not using bellows or extension tubes, you can connect the rms/m42 to the lens. But, I can't find any adapters to do this.
@@raula.6729 Ah - I see the problem - there is no reason to attach that objective to any lens. As a finite objective it doesn't need a relay lens. All you need are the extension tubes (150mm total distance from sensor to objective). So you can attach the extension tubes to the camera (m42 to F-mount adapter), 103mm of extension tubes, and then the adapter you already have. That is all you need. You would only use the 200mm lens with an infinity corrected objective. If you want me to send you a picture of the setup you need, email me at contact@allanwallsphotography.com.
@@AllanWallsPhotography I already have extention tubes, so basically I would have to get one more adapter, m42 to f mount. I already ordered a macro focusing rail. So, I should be set? The focusing rail will help getting focus?
@@raula.6729 Yes. You need to attach tubes to camera and objective to tubes, those two adapters will do the job. The rail doesn't so much help you get in focus - most of the images won't be in focus - as allow you to move the camera and objective forward through the spcimen. Only a thin slice will be in focus after each movement of the rail.
I like your videos, but they make me glad that I shoot single frames. I maybe spend all of two minutes in post, and the majority of that time is just rubbing out dust spots.
I was getting ready to buy Helicon Pro before I heard this, just now. So you have my attention now (I’ve been on travel to home, so now I am ready to build out my Mititoyo 5x rig). I will be stacking soon. I have only used Helicon but have been having some issues with it over the last couple of years.
Well I started using it today (Helicon) for the first time in many years. I will soon be doing an in-depth head-to-head of the two stackers. I did this when I chose Zerene, but I want to see what has changed. I can say that for basic stacking there is probably nothing in it, but we aren't doing basic stacking here and the differences are going to be in the details!
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
An excellent explanation !! I now understand working withe Zerene. I would never have figured this out by myself. Thanks !
Best video EVER comparing and encouraging use of retouching and stacking. Anti-photoshop folks can even benefit!
As a very minor musician who writes, plays, records, mixes and produces her own stuff, this video on the importance of retouching reminds me of the final, final, FINAL stage that music peeps try to duck out of: mastering.
Ooh heck, that's when things get tricky.
Couldn't agree more. The hardest part of the retouching/editing process is stepping back and looking at the picture. When I look at some of my old work (or listen to ALL of my old music) I wonder, what was I thinking!? There is a lot to be said for finishing a retouch and setting the image aside for a day or two. Look at it with a fresh perspective and only then finish it off with whatever global adjustments are needed. Showing your work to a trusted friend is a great tool, if they are honest and you have a thick skin, and if you are willing to adjust accordingly. You know I am now intrigued and will not rest until I track down some of this "Elli P music" and give it a listen.
You're right, it IS a lot of information! But more importantly, it's a lot of information presented clearly, skillfully, with humor and passion, and is so well thought out that with just the few notes I took while watching it, you just totally revolutionized my work flow! Can't thank you enough for these invaluable videos!
Great information Allan! Thank you for the tutorial.
Great content and so helpful, many thanks Maestro.
A lot of information yes, but simply explained. Great.
Excellent, practice coming up. As a newcomer I’ve been guessing this bit. This makes a lot more sene. Thank you.
Wow 😮Alan your knowledge in the Feld of Macro Photography is just mind blowing. That’s mate for your time and effort you put into making these very informative videos, I have learnt so much from you. Cheers Mark
Thanks for the kind words, Mark. I hope the other four people who watch it get as much out of it!
Sweet baby Jesus … people do this for fun? Not knowing anything about macro photography, nor having ever had any interest in it, I decided to force myself to watch this. This entire process is extremely informative. I really thought you guys superglued insects to paper towels and took, threw on macro lenses, took a single image, and called it a day. Much respect!
Oh dear - did I look like I was having fun? That was unintentional. You know, I have never actually thought about it in terms of fun. I don't know if it would qualify as fun, but I do know that it is incredibly absorbing and can be pretty challenging. The results can be absolutely stunning too. But fun? It is definitely "addictive" (in quotes because it's not, really) and there is a really interesting community of photographers that forms around a channel like this. But if I may make a personal observation, any human who has the insight to appreciate that there may be some value in forcing themselves to watch a long and tedious video on a subject they have no interest in, well, that human sounds a lot like a macro photographer to me. Are you absolutely sure you are not? And are you having fun yet?
@@AllanWallsPhotography LOL no. Maybe once I go bald and have to send my D850 to NJ I may reconsider that position ,though. It's kind of ironic that I do these things, though. Half of me is one of the most disgustingly lazy and sociopathic individuals around, the other half of me wants to save the world. To be honest, I love falling down these rabbit holes in the hopes of discovering the elusive elixir of understanding and/or enhancing images. It truly defies me that there are so few resources, barring that guy on Typepad and some rantings from printers of the 70s/80s/90s as to what constitutes good images. Maybe I'm avoiding macro photography as it would force me over the edge as I obssess over blending the hairs of layers 500 and 501. Do you keep a revolver nearby just in case this all becomes too much?
Thanks Allan, excellent tutorial. So I finally received the adapter to start using my Mitty with the bellows and Raynox. Only a couple stacks thus far but wow. I'm applying your techniques for slabbing and I do see improvement. Cropping out any extra black background, as you suggest, is an excellent tip.
I am so glad! I thought I might have gone too far with this video - far too much detail. So it feels like vindication to see so many folks picking up some of these ideas and running with them. And you described the objective perfectly - wow!
I was getting ready to buy Helicon Pro before I heard this, just now. So you have my attention now (I’ve been on travel to home, so now I am ready to build out my Mititoyo 5x rig). I will be stacking soon. I have only used Helicon but have been having some issues with it over the last couple of years.
Allan, you’ve gone and changed my entire processing workflow and I’m very upset. Mostly because I’m sorry I hadn’t employed this sooner. My before and after stacks bear no resemblance at all. The improvement is exponential and there’s no going back. Slabbing has made stacking enjoyable, and careful editing possible and not overwhelming. Just know that you did NOT go too far with this video. The detail was on target and appropriate - more like this please. FYI - I’m now capturing macro using a Beseler CS-21 copy stand, therefore working vertically. A plexiglass base elevated 3” above the stand surface allows me to slide in and out backgrounds to find a good complement to the subject. The real effective change is the use of a paper lantern that attaches to the camera body and accordions in and out as I focus. The soft, diffused light is terrific. Not my invention, but imitation seems to be a photographers friend. Thx again.
Allan. I may be doing something wrong, but I first run a standard PMax and DMap. Then I slab. However, I don’t need to export the slabs and reimport. I can edit with the slabs in the output area. Just like using PMax to retouch DMap. I noted that when I first tried it, I was in the overlap mode where you use S key to see the image you are using to retouch and it did not work. Then I took it out of the overlap method and went back into the overlap method and low and behold, I can retouch using the slabs in the overlap method on the Dmap or Pmax. It is a lot simpler and quicker than exporting those images and bring them back in.
Thanks for what you do, you are great. Even if I did not win the TShirt Contest.
Have you ever compared the output images from your full Pmax and Dmap stacking runs to the final images obtained by stacking the Pmax slab outputs? That is why I use this method and skip the full stacks completely. I have found the Pmax output from stacking the slabs to be more accurate with greater preservation of fine detail in almost every case. But the difference can be pretty subtle and depends hugely on how the images were shot. But next time you are doing a 100+ stack, do it twice - one the way you describe and once without the full Pmax and Dmap. I think you will find a significant time saving and the same or higher image quality from stacking the slabs rather than the original images. It took me two years of going back and forth before deciding on this slabbing/retouching workflow, so I can understand any skepticism. Keep me posted, I would love to hear how your experience compares. Thanks for the great feedback, and sorry about the tee shirt competition - though you may get another crack at the random drawing if I don't hear from the second winner soon!
Great video, thanks
Great job (again!!!). Thanx.
i deeply appreciate that you share your expertise so open. any chance to get it written in pdf in you homepage?
best wishes
toni
Thanks, this workflow is going to be available in written form, along with everything else I talk about on this channel, in a book on macro photography that I am currently working on. When I get a chance I will try to put an abbreviated version of this workflow on the website. The article that is on my blog does provide much of the information - www.allanwallsphotography.com/blog/retouch
@@AllanWallsPhotography A BOOK! That’s great news and a nice supplement to your videos. No pressure, but do you have a rough time frame? Will it be self-published or have you contracted with a publisher? These are difficult times for an author with limited opportunities to promote their work due to COVID-19, but since yours is such a niche topic like macro, you should have a ready and waiting audience. Best of luck with it and please let us know if advance sales are an option.
@@hanklevesque426 Well, if you were trying to decide if you should wait to start the new Stephen King (excellent by all accounts), I wouldn't wait. You should have plenty of time. This has been a work in progress for some time and I keep adding chapters. Loads of details still to work out but I want it to be as comprehensive and useful as possible so I am resisting cutting any corners. I intend to keep up my video production schedule, and that takes up a massive amount of time. But thanks for the enthusiastic words!
Wow thank you what a educational video
Glad it was helpful!
Great information Allan. Would be interested in good Wacom settings for macro
That's a great topic for a quick video! Thanks Alan!
Are there free software that can do the retouching similar to zerene?
G'Day Allan This is Bruce. If I have say just 10 files to stack would it be worth slabbing them? Thanks for the very detailed and technical video.
I wouldn't bother. I use a cut off of about 40. Above that, there is an advantage in the retouch, otherwise probably not. Slabbing is primarily a way to take control of the retouch workflow and the more individual images, the more time and effort you can save.
Today, after about 1 hour retouching, ZS crashed/stopped (can happen). So a little advice: save now and then.... :) (how? Save project??)
It has happened to me but only when I ask it to do something without giving it the resources. It is almost always due to inadequate application memory. Allocating more memory before trying to stack a huge job is worth a try. The bets thing you can do is keep your hard drive with as much room as possible. Since trashing 200GB of auto-saves from Premiere I have not experienced a single crash. I do not save projects - they are gigantic - I import the images run the program, finish retouching, save the final image and throw everything else away except, maybe, the slabs. I know the program can multitask, but I prefer to run one stack at a time - old computer.
@@AllanWallsPhotography What I also do now, is "Save output image" with the slabbed files, and save them at my external drive. Now I can start retouching with that files ("Add files") when I want/have time. It's a fast workflow and you can start over to give it an other try, dimension or something. Saves a lot of work/time.
@@keeskraaijeveld4704 The problem with that approach is if you wait to stack the slabs at a later date you will no longer have access to the original source images if you need them. I try to get it all done at once, but if I can't I am sure to save any source files that I might need.
Allen, I just bought the rms to m42 adapter. But, how to I attach it to my lens. My lens has a filter size of 72mm. I know I can use stop down rings.. But, there's to female threads for the m42.
You are correct. M42 is a size of extension tube usually used in astrophotography, I believe. I keep a couple of M42 to F-mount adapters and also a couple of m42-m43 step ups, a common size and part of the regular series. What are you trying to accomplish? I presume you have a small finite objective like the Amscope 4X you are trying to mount? The easiest would be to get an adapter that is 72mm male and 42mm female on the other... but be careful, a lot of M42 tubes have a 1MM thread pitch and would not mount securely on the more common 0.75 thread pitch used for filters.
@@AllanWallsPhotography yes, I been watching your videos and already ordered the Amscope 4x and also the rms/m42 adapter. I will be using a Tamron Lens/nikon with a filter size of 72. You mentioned that if you're not using bellows or extension tubes, you can connect the rms/m42 to the lens. But, I can't find any adapters to do this.
@@raula.6729 Ah - I see the problem - there is no reason to attach that objective to any lens. As a finite objective it doesn't need a relay lens. All you need are the extension tubes (150mm total distance from sensor to objective). So you can attach the extension tubes to the camera (m42 to F-mount adapter), 103mm of extension tubes, and then the adapter you already have. That is all you need. You would only use the 200mm lens with an infinity corrected objective. If you want me to send you a picture of the setup you need, email me at contact@allanwallsphotography.com.
@@AllanWallsPhotography I already have extention tubes, so basically I would have to get one more adapter, m42 to f mount. I already ordered a macro focusing rail. So, I should be set? The focusing rail will help getting focus?
@@raula.6729 Yes. You need to attach tubes to camera and objective to tubes, those two adapters will do the job. The rail doesn't so much help you get in focus - most of the images won't be in focus - as allow you to move the camera and objective forward through the spcimen. Only a thin slice will be in focus after each movement of the rail.
I like your videos, but they make me glad that I shoot single frames. I maybe spend all of two minutes in post, and the majority of that time is just rubbing out dust spots.
I hear you - I do a lot of that too. This is an acquired taste. Try it sometime - it is the result that pulls you in.
Next: editing the background.... I heard.... :)
I was getting ready to buy Helicon Pro before I heard this, just now. So you have my attention now (I’ve been on travel to home, so now I am ready to build out my Mititoyo 5x rig). I will be stacking soon. I have only used Helicon but have been having some issues with it over the last couple of years.
Well I started using it today (Helicon) for the first time in many years. I will soon be doing an in-depth head-to-head of the two stackers. I did this when I chose Zerene, but I want to see what has changed. I can say that for basic stacking there is probably nothing in it, but we aren't doing basic stacking here and the differences are going to be in the details!