As far as some problems with the flashes is concerned in the beginning I have made my experiences with misfired flashes and double contoures ruining a couple of hundred stack shots. The solution for me was 1. buying 4 Yongnuo 560 III (from one production line !!) and a radio flash controller YN560-TXII and 2. buying 4 Yongnuo SF-18 Compact battery packs holding 8 black Eneloops each. I use the flashes normally between 1/4 and 1/128 power and only within the macro cage. Charging them before every session of up to 700 shots with let's say a 20x objektive I never had the upper mentioned problems again, never ... Hope that helps By the way, thanks a lot Allen for publicising this extraordinary Mitutoyo glass ... you got me looking forward to get one ...
Thanks Carl - I spent two hours loading the links into text-edit last night, but when I pasted it into the RUclips field, they all vanished. I just put them all back in!
Great stuff, I wasn't expecting this when I ordered my objective from Lightglass. Delivery to UK, was quick and easy, and even after import duties and VAT its a substantial saving. A demonstration showing the Raynox setting would be ideal for me. Many thanks.
Lucky you. I emailed Lightglass from Australia seeking an ordering/shipping solution as their web site failed to accept my order. Months later I am still awaiting a reply. I guess they really didn't need any further expressions of interest.
II’ll be using bellows with reverse mounted Raynox…just waiting on an adapter (shipping on the slowest boat from China). Appreciated the tip to go with 16 sec delay for the Godox flashes. I’ve been keeping it to about 8 seconds. Haven’t noted as overheating but it’s possible. Once in a while a flash will not fire during a stack, and you know how irritating that can be. So, will increase the delay time on the StackShot. Thanks Allan.
It drives me crazy - as a card-carrying perfectionist, a single misfire will ruin the shot. One thing I didn't mention is if you are using the V series flashes, with the battery pack, they are much more prone to dropping a flash after about 300 low power firings. The battery operated TT flashes will continue to flash until the just stop. It is a problem that is frustrating enough to make me reconsider my choice of replacement units. I don't know if the V lights are more prone to overheat or if the power management is poor. One last thing - if you see significant central softness, flip your Raynox back to normal. I was getting a soft center in reverse.
Another immaculate video. Many thanks. Does this approach produce better results than a 5X macro lens (taking the same vibration etc. precautions), please?
I'd like to see the setup for the Raynox, although I have the Marumi brand +3 and +5 diopter lenses. I imagine the setup will be the same regardless of manufacturer.
Lovely lens - you have the DHG Achromat? That should make for an excellent tube lens - when I talk about setting up the relay lens at 208mm from the sensor, make that 200mm for the Marumi. And please share some of the resulting images. I have wanted to get one of those lenses for some time.
Hi Allan, after watching your video about the Mitutoyo 5x objective, I checked out the website mentioned that has the genuine article, I was tempted to buy one until I got to the ‘sting in the tail’, freight cost to Australia! Based on the freight cost, I can only assume it must occupy its own first class seat coming at the speed of light. From my comments, you would be correct in assuming that I did not proceed with the purchase of said objective. Cost of lens $US432.00 in round figures, cost of freight $US 178.00. Add another third in cost to the US$ cost to see what it costs in Australia dollars.
That is a real shame, but you can't argue with the logic. A regular viewer form the UK was telling me yesterday that he ordered one and had it shipped over the ocean. Even with VAT and duty, we save some couple of hundred bucks on the deal. If I was in a similarly antipodean situation, I would have bought a 5X, 7.5X, 10X, and 20X and made the shipping costs more reasonable. But then I would need to find a place to live after the bank took the house back.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Hi Allan, there is no way it actually costs this much to ship such a small item, I get items from many parts of the world so have a pretty good idea about shipping costs for many photographic items, lenses etc. I don't like this way some firms do business by charging incredible amounts for shipping to make the cost of the item look better than it is in reality.
@@ShevillMathers I also can't stand that and don't deal with vendors that do it, but that has not been my experience at all with Lightglass. As far as I know all his domestic shipping is free. I wonder if it some special fees that affect your side of the planet. Another consideration is the box. The box mine came in was bigger and heavier than the box my D850 came in. The bottle lid is made of depleted uranium or some such. If you could reach out through the back channel, I'll be happy to see what can be done, if you like.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Many thanks, Allan for your offer, I will keep that in mind should I get more interested in that objective. I have so many projects on the go, it is not urgent or holding me up. I have some very nice Olympus plan apo's at the low end, 2x, 4x, that are worth a try, along with others from Zeiss and Leitz. What I am short of is time!!. Again, many thanks, I appreciate your offer and the work and effort you put into your productions. Stay safe.
Thank you so much for responding to my comment, Allan! I was looking to get the same speedlights (TT350s) for my set up unfortunately they are also sold out here in Australia. By the way have you seen Godox new MF 12 speedlights yet?
@@timoohlsen Hi Tim, unfortunately the TT350s are sold out here as well. I never did get them. I am intrigued by the MF12s which won't be out until October. I will probably get a couple to test, but I am concerned about the battery life. As I move to using more and more individual low power flashes, these sound like just the ticket, but not if they can only handle 200 consecutive shots. Hopefully that can do 1200 shots at 1/128, but I will need to make sure before I buy 6 or 8 of them. The TT350s still sound like the better choice and i will get them if they ever come back in stock.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks for your response again, Allan! I really appreciate it . I am really hooked on all this macro photography you are doing, thank you for sharing your immense expertise. It‘s very impressive indeed. Regarding the speedlights- Apparently the new MF 12s are capable to deliver 500 flashes at full power. I am keen to see how they perform in case you decide to test them out. Do you mind me asking, why not get the Lithium-ion powered V350 instead of the TT350s if you are concerned about battery capacity? I know they are a fair bit more expensive but also have more than twice as much flash output. Looking forward to hear your opinion. Many thanks! 🙏
@@timoohlsen That is a great question with a strange answer. I do a lot of flash photography, hundreds of flashes a day, and I pay attention to how my equipment performs. Well I have a mixture of Godox lights (TT600s and V- 8 something or others). Neither of them have power issues if I am using Eneloop Pro batteries, but one of them does overheat if I end up using a high power flash like 1/4 (rarely). And it is always the battery pack flash that drops the shot. So, knowing very little about power, batteries and heat, I am left to believe there is something related to the Li battery pack that is causing thermal shutdown occasionally. That and the price. They are about twice the price and I would also need at least one extra battery pack. I think I am going to go with the MF12s.
dear allen , really good stuff you produce . i especially enjoyed the vertical views on your working table ( apart from the gopro distorsion …) ; but of course i like your face aswell. looking forward for a raynox - relay lens tutorial incl your calculations. best greetings from switzerland , from an md as well . toni
Ok, first set of questions: I have a 70-200mm f/4 lens (I assume I can just adjust the output power of the flashes to compensate for the lack of a 200mm f/2.8 lens). I assume that is ok? Also, I have 7 step-down rings on the end of it (67 mm thread) to get to 26mm for the objective. That a lot thicker than yours, but it should work, right? Also, I have an Raynox 150 (and 250) and a bunch of extension tubes with more on the way, so I'd like a setup for that too. I have one crop body (90D) and two FF bodies (5DS R and R5) that I can use for macro. Currently I'm going to play with the 90D since it is very pixel dense with a 32.5 MP crop-sensor. I will start building the platform and lighting system soon, but unfortunately, I have some travel to do in between. Thanks again.
Yes, absolutely - don't worry about the f/4 lens. I should have mentioned that I use my 70-200 at f/4. And yes on the infinity space. You could get away with a lot more than you will have with those step rings.
Use the black tube cap. Epoxy the cap to the outside of a body cap from your camera. Then drill a hole through body cap and objective cap, Screw the onbjective into the cap and place the body cap on the camera (or extension tubes).
@@AllanWallsPhotography Haha, i figured it out when first opened the package. Thank You! Ordered a RMS to M42 adapter, it will take a few months to get here. Now i need some more extensions. Could buy a piece of blackout cloth locally. Will make a simple bag bellows quickly to be able to try the lens :)
Hi Allan nice review, I think you are wrong when saying the Mitutoyo 5x is the sharpest of all. There is the Qioptiq magx 5x which is sharper. I have a second hand one which I got for a fraction of the price.
You know, I have never had my hands on that lens, but you are not the first person to suggest it is even sharper. It is hard to imagine a how it could be, but I am perfectly happy to be wrong. The problem is the $8,600 cost, not to mention the $6K for the 250mm tube lens. So I am afraid that the Mitutoyo is likely to remain the sharpest lens I have ever tested forever! Thanks for setting the record straight. Cheers!
Would like to see a video featuring the Raynox 150 with extension tubes if you have the time. Thank you for your very informative and entertaining videos!
Should be releasing that video later today - if the power holds during the coming deluge - just substitute "bellows" for the same length of extension (and be sure to add some kind of support for that much extension so as not to damage the flange of your camera).
Maybe good to tell that the objective is quite heavy and possible need some support beneath the tube/long lens. How to do that I don't know....maybe Allan can give some advice?
It is indeed a very heavy objective - far larger and heavier than any objectives we may run into, with the noted exception of the Qioptic Mag-X LD Plan Achromats that are just a little bit smaller than a grain silo. I would strongly advise against trying to use the M-plan objectives on extension tubes without good support from below. It is a very good way to destroy the aperture actuator mechanism of a DSLR - I know because I did just that to my D850. I recommend investing in a good set of bellows - the Nikon PB-6 or Nikon PB-4 - though others do, apparently exist. With bellows the weight is not an issue and is supported easily withers much infinity distance as you care to add. But if you plan to use extension tubes, mount the camera and the extension tubes on a long Arca-Swiss type rail using tube supports and QR mounting plates (one of theses: amzn.to/37kEXBd and 2-3 of these: amzn.to/3AkzfvX and some of these slip rings with posts (pick the right size for your tubes): www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=9623
Great information! How do we connect the SMALLRIG 9.5 to the Godox V350. I see you have some device on the speed light but don't see a link to where we can get it?
The clamps I am using in the video are these - amzn.to/3rPDDQe - but I had problems with one or both of the springs coming loose. I am hoping the captive cold shoe from SmallRig will be a better alrternative (it is looked in the show notes).
I would love to see a Raynox video using a bellows and Stackshot. I would especially like to see you use your current preferred setup and technique that you use to create your remarkable images including Stackshot settings, flash settings and specimen setup. I use exposure delay of 3 seconds to raise the mirror and allow vibration to settle as I am unsure how to do the two exposure routine you use. I use the 860 Godox flashes.
I am preparing that video right now, but to address your specific questions, the stackshot settings will vary with the subject, but if in any doubt, shoot a few short stacks of the subject to make sure you are getting good coverage. I use as many Godox V860s as I need, all on minimum power, to get the subtle lighting I like. I hardly ever increase the intensity of a single speedlight, preferring to add another separate light. This cuts down on specularity and makes for more natural fall off. I use a lot of diffusion material - in front of every flash and covering the subject. I prefer to set the stackshot (in the config menu) to 2 shots and I use long delays of 8 seconds Toff and Tpause, 16 seconds total. That, of course, removes any vibration but much more importantly it guarantees that my speedlights will not experience intermittent thermal shutdown, causing misfires and ruining the stack. The first impulse raises the mirror (camera is set in Mup mode) and the second releases the shutter. My go to setup is Raynox in normal orientation at 208mm on bellows, I then add 30mm of infinity space using a stack of step down rings that end with a 26mm ring to accept the Mitutoyo. It has taken me years to settle on this default setup, but I will make occasional tweaks as the subject directs. But the single biggest factor in the final image quality is how you manage the stack after it is shot. The post-stack workflow is at least as critical as the capture. I recommend you watch the stacking and retouching video that is coming out next week to see my most current recommendations for finishing up a shot. Good luck to you!
Thank you Allan! Most informative. I will try to increase my infinity space for my next specimen. I just ordered 2 Godox 860 rechargeable flashes to be main flashes and use my Nikon SB-800 flashes for accent lighting. You mentioned you were looking at some new flashes that might be better. I can return these if you think there is a better way to go. Thank you for all the valuable information you share.
@@BudPerrott I have ordered (or will when they get back in stock) 4 TT350s from Godox. I will let you know how they work out. Congratulations on winning the competition!
Hey Allan! Absolutely love these videos. Have jumped into macro photography for work and am trying hard to get caught up (I have no previous photography experience). Thank you so much for all of this work, including setting up the Discord! The purpose for this comment is that I would love a video like this involving the setup with the Raynox diopter, as I have no experience with photography I do not have a 200mm lens. If you get to this, I have a quick question. You mentioned that vignetting is an issue for full-frame cameras (mine is a Canon EOS 5DS), and that you address this in another video (or perhaps intended to). Haven't stumbled across anything on the topic yet and would love to know more, so the question is that if you have addressed this, which video is it in? Thanks a MILLION!
Hi Daniel, Glad to hear the video was helpful - you have a lot of stuff to catch up on but if you want it, you'll get it. I did a video just like this for the Raynox the week after this - it was exactly what you are looking for - here it is... ruclips.net/video/w9hZiU719Bo/видео.html
Hi Allan thanks once again for a very useful video! I often wonder when or even if you ever get any sleep! :) A question about stray light. I have cut out a black foam tube similar to the one you have in the video, to slide over the body of the Mitutoyo which has a very shiny surface. My foam tube ends just before the end of the objective, the face of which is also very shiny. I couldn't tell from the video how you had dealt with the end face. Did you extend your tube past the end of the objective? The shiny surface on the end of the objective is too narrow to risk attaching something to it so I wondered if extending the body tube over the end would help in reducing any stray light from the objective tube end. I can already see how superb the lens is from the two test shots I have taken. Both colour and resolution are outstanding. I will have to stop buying more gear! Thanks again, Barry :)
Well, I am glad you waited until after this lens to start a diet!. I used a foam sleeve with a covering of black flocking material. I let the material extend about 3-4mm in front of the end of the objective and rolled it onto the metallic rim. It is not a great solution - I don't like having adhesive near the glass, so I am taking a much more fitted foam sleeve. A 5mm collar might be enough, unless you are using very perpendicular lighting. This lens is so fantastic it is worth every bit of trouble to protect it from stray light. The results will say a lot more than I can.
Can I clarify if a 200mm lens on a micro four thirds camera would still work as the transport lens? Eg the Panasonic leica 200mm lens. I know the field of view is 2x with the crop but not sure how that would work in this case.
You are correct. It will be a cramped (or intense!) field but the relay lens would still need to be around 200mm focal length and set up at that distance from the sensor.
thanks for this great video, once again, i really learn a lot thank sto you ;) . About Mitutoyo lens , i was wondering if Mitutoyo Nir (infra red) series lens are better than Mitutoyo M Plan Apo? are Nir lenses usable for extreme macro anyway? thanks.
Hi - the NIR version of the lens would work fine but at a much higher cost there is really no reason to it. The NIR and UV versions of the lens are used to deliver laser energy to the target and that is what you are paying for. Seeing as we just need to see the target, we can save the money and buy a new car instead. Of course the opposite is not true - you cannot use a laser with the M-plan Apo - But if a crazy uncle gave you a NIR objective for Christmas I'll let you borrow my laser!
I use the lens at f/4. I get some weird CAs and a little softening when I use it wide open. I should have mentioned that, but experiment with the lens you will use.
excellent videos thank you , i have 2 questions if please can help 1- can you suggest a good objective but a cheap one for my 70-200mm lens? 2- if i used my 70-200 lens, what is the difference between infinity corrected objective and the non-infinity corrected one ?
I think the best deal is the Nikon CFI Plan Achromat 10X. At $200 you won't find anything close to this good. You can find no-name infinity corrected objectives for $30 and they are just rubbish for photography. If there is a cheaper objective of this quality, I don't know about it. As for the second question, you would not need to use your 70-200 with a finite objective - all you need is the correct length of extension. Your 70-200 will work with any infinity objective that requires a 200mm tube lens.
Hi Allan. I have a question. How do you keep your flash guns fully operational during a deep stack? If I do a stack over 100 images, the batteries will either drain or the flash will overheat and not fire. I have to do the stack manually because as I reach the end of the stack, the flashes take a long time to recycle- or I have to change the flash or batteries. I’ve killed 2 flash guns already from the abuse I put them through. I use Yongnuo flash guns with Enloop rechargeable batteries. Help me...(help me). I could never use an automatic rail
I had the same. Make the time between the images much longer and try to set the flash as low as possible (1/16 or 1/32). I made it about 16 secs between the shots and even with 1/8 to 1/4 th the problem is over.
On many flash units there is a small 5Volt socket which allows the unit to be powered from the mains via those little wall units that one powers most USB 5Volt equipment from. I have various units from a single outlet to an 8 outlet device, which I plug all my flash units into. I rarely use batteries when doing macro photography indoors. These mains to 5 Volt converters are cheap and readily available, as are the USB power cables. Hope this helps. I do a lot of astronomical photography at a professional research level, as well as macro and photomicrography, and these days so much modern gear is now 12Volt and 5Volt, so my interests overlap and help each other. Southern Cross Observatory-Tasmania 42 South.
Hi Leigh, and thanks to Shevill and Kees for jumping in - My speedlights won't run off the wall (I wish), but I am 99% certain your problem is thermal shutdown of the xenon flash tube. As Kees says there is a limit to how close together you can fire a sequence of shots before the tube accumulates too much heat and has to shut down. I have discovered that for Godox Vxxx speedlights the magic number is 16 seconds. As soon as I programmed a 16 second delay (I use Stackshot and it is actually 2 x 8 second delays), I have never missed another flash. And I routinely do stacks in the 3-400 range. Try that. One other thing that will minimize the problem and help with image quality - instead of adding power, add anther flash. I use 3-6 speedlights but keep them all at 1/128th power if possible. It helps create a wall of light that is extremely flattering for most subjects. It also stops any one flash from getting hot and turning off. Hope that helps!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Yes, I have several small flash units and I looked for those models that can be powered via a USB 5 Volt socket. When used on their minimum flash output I have not run into any overheating issues. As there are just so many flash units on the market it is too wide a topic to start saying which make/models work the best. I have a mix of Nikon, Canon, Godox, Mecablitz etc.
Hi Allan, I was wondering how the Laowa 28mm 2.5 - 5x compared to this objective, i am looking to buy one for my Z6ii, would i get the same results. or will i be wasting money.
Two very, very different optical tools, Peter. The former is a self contained macro lens, with all the benefits and drawbacks of such a device. It is hard to use handheld because of the manual focus (if you aren't used to it) and extremely shallow DOF. The Mitutoyo is a "best in class" optical standard microscope objective that is capable of delivering resolution at the limits of your camera's sensor (2um). The Laowa is a fun, though difficult to handle, lens. It is very prone to diffraction , even wide open at f/2.8 and 5x, and optically it just can't compare to the mitutoyo for image quality. But you can't take the mitutoyo out into the woods (well you can, but not to take pictures), it needs to be mounted on a stable platform, with good lighting, etc. Here's the thing, you buy the LAOWA to use at 5x and you need a ton of patience, a tripod, a lot of luck, and it helps if you like a depth of field 50 microns thick. So to get the most out if you should put it on a rail and focus stack. But if you are going to do that, why not spend the one dollar ($399 vs. $400) and buy the lens that people measure their lenses against. I don't mean to sound like a lens snob, but the only way this decision would be a tough one would be if the Mitutoyo cost $5,000. I'd still end up recommending you find the extra $4,601 to get the Mitutoyo, but at least I would have had to think about it. A top tip ... up to 1:1, use a macro lens, from 1:1 to 3.4:1, use a reversed El Nikkor enlarger lens, or a reversed short prime "D" (35mm to about 50mm), and add some extension for the magnification you want. For anything more that 3.5X, use a microscope objective. There is no comparison. Good luck!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks Allan. I think I will stay out of the wood (you know what bears do in the woods), my thoughts were to eliminate all the add-ons to mount the objective, I bought the 24-200 lens with my camera (1 month old now ) partly for this purpose. I also bought the Laowa 100mm Z mount to replace my old DSLR 90mm tamron, this Laowa lens covers the 1:1 and also gives me 2:1. the reviews so far have been quite good. almost all my macro photos are taken in the macro cage (based on your plans) , either stacked or from a tripod. I tried outdoor macro photography on bumble bees a few days ago, unless seated or using a tripod it is like trying to shoot on a washing machine in full spin with a missing foot (the washing machine, not me). I think I will go with your advice and get the 5X objective, because the chances are, I will always extend the lens and use it in 5X. I will hold of on buying the Laowa (financed) and save for the Mitutoyo, in the meantime I will bug harvest for the upcoming winter
Edit: f200 was referring focal length, my bad. I assume the flash is required because the apature is that small? E.g. f200 being crazy small. Eeek, always used led static lighting for my macro, no flash in my kit.
Yes, but there are better ways to get equally gorgeous pictures for less money - these lenses are correct for near infrared wavelengths so that certain lasers can be directed without interference form aberrations, they are still apochromats, so they are great lenses - but unless you need to point your Neodymium:YAG laser to trim semiconductors, it is probably overkill, You will get all the same optical qualities for a thousand dollars less with the M-plan.
@@AllanWallsPhotography I currently live and work in China and here you get everything new and second hand. (but most of the cheaper things are counterfeit, or broken. also these lenses) how to spot if one is fake or real? the problem is, they price the fake ones same as real ones from Japan, so price is not always an indicator.
I am planning to get all the equipment (incl a macro slider) they are 220usd here. The most important is the lens. I was thinking of using the Nikon Plan 10x. and get rid of chromatic aberration in Photoshop after stacking. (possible?) thx
My bad - I had to edit the show notes a couple of times and somehow lost the invitation - it will be there in 3.6 minutes - thanks for letting me know!
I know a few of my regular viewers are using this objective on the a7. If you check out our Discord group (invite in the video description) and ask your question over there, someone will be able to help you.
As far as some problems with the flashes is concerned in the beginning I have made my experiences with misfired flashes and double contoures ruining a couple of hundred stack shots. The solution for me was 1. buying 4 Yongnuo 560 III (from one production line !!) and a radio flash controller YN560-TXII and 2. buying 4 Yongnuo SF-18 Compact battery packs holding 8 black Eneloops each. I use the flashes normally between 1/4 and 1/128 power and only within the macro cage. Charging them before every session of up to 700 shots with let's say a 20x objektive I never had the upper mentioned problems again, never ... Hope that helps
By the way, thanks a lot Allen for publicising this extraordinary Mitutoyo glass ... you got me looking forward to get one ...
Great information, Allan! Thank you for sharing. Waiting for the links to be attached.
Thanks Carl - I spent two hours loading the links into text-edit last night, but when I pasted it into the RUclips field, they all vanished. I just put them all back in!
Fantastic value!
Great stuff, I wasn't expecting this when I ordered my objective from Lightglass. Delivery to UK, was quick and easy, and even after import duties and VAT its a substantial saving. A demonstration showing the Raynox setting would be ideal for me. Many thanks.
Will do!
Lucky you. I emailed Lightglass from Australia seeking an ordering/shipping solution as their web site failed to accept my order. Months later I am still awaiting a reply. I guess they really didn't need any further expressions of interest.
II’ll be using bellows with reverse mounted Raynox…just waiting on an adapter (shipping on the slowest boat from China). Appreciated the tip to go with 16 sec delay for the Godox flashes. I’ve been keeping it to about 8 seconds. Haven’t noted as overheating but it’s possible. Once in a while a flash will not fire during a stack, and you know how irritating that can be. So, will increase the delay time on the StackShot. Thanks Allan.
It drives me crazy - as a card-carrying perfectionist, a single misfire will ruin the shot. One thing I didn't mention is if you are using the V series flashes, with the battery pack, they are much more prone to dropping a flash after about 300 low power firings. The battery operated TT flashes will continue to flash until the just stop. It is a problem that is frustrating enough to make me reconsider my choice of replacement units. I don't know if the V lights are more prone to overheat or if the power management is poor. One last thing - if you see significant central softness, flip your Raynox back to normal. I was getting a soft center in reverse.
Thank you Thank you Thank you. I'm at the stage where I have the rail, Lens, Just need the Mitutoyo so the video really helps me
Excellent information on this fine optic!
thanks , especially for the lighting
Another immaculate video. Many thanks. Does this approach produce better results than a 5X macro lens (taking the same vibration etc. precautions), please?
I'd like to see the setup for the Raynox, although I have the Marumi brand +3 and +5 diopter lenses. I imagine the setup will be the same regardless of manufacturer.
Lovely lens - you have the DHG Achromat? That should make for an excellent tube lens - when I talk about setting up the relay lens at 208mm from the sensor, make that 200mm for the Marumi. And please share some of the resulting images. I have wanted to get one of those lenses for some time.
Very nice tutorial. I noticed that the 200mm focal length is needed as tube lens. I only have an 180mm prime. Would this stil work acceptably well?
Brilliant , packed full of ideas and information , thanks Allan 👍
Hi Allan, after watching your video about the Mitutoyo 5x objective, I checked out the website mentioned that has the genuine article, I was tempted to buy one until I got to the ‘sting in the tail’, freight cost to Australia! Based on the freight cost, I can only assume it must occupy its own first class seat coming at the speed of light. From my comments, you would be correct in assuming that I did not proceed with the purchase of said objective. Cost of lens $US432.00
in round figures, cost of freight $US 178.00. Add another third in cost to the US$ cost to see what it costs in Australia dollars.
That is a real shame, but you can't argue with the logic. A regular viewer form the UK was telling me yesterday that he ordered one and had it shipped over the ocean. Even with VAT and duty, we save some couple of hundred bucks on the deal. If I was in a similarly antipodean situation, I would have bought a 5X, 7.5X, 10X, and 20X and made the shipping costs more reasonable. But then I would need to find a place to live after the bank took the house back.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Hi Allan, there is no way it actually costs this much to ship such a small item, I get items from many parts of the world so have a pretty good idea about shipping costs for many photographic items, lenses etc. I don't like this way some firms do business by charging incredible amounts for shipping to make the cost of the item look better than it is in reality.
@@ShevillMathers I also can't stand that and don't deal with vendors that do it, but that has not been my experience at all with Lightglass. As far as I know all his domestic shipping is free. I wonder if it some special fees that affect your side of the planet. Another consideration is the box. The box mine came in was bigger and heavier than the box my D850 came in. The bottle lid is made of depleted uranium or some such. If you could reach out through the back channel, I'll be happy to see what can be done, if you like.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Many thanks, Allan for your offer, I will keep that in mind should I get more interested in that objective. I have so many projects on the go, it is not urgent or holding me up. I have some very nice Olympus plan apo's at the low end, 2x, 4x, that are worth a try, along with others from Zeiss and Leitz. What I am short of is time!!. Again, many thanks, I appreciate your offer and the work and effort you put into your productions. Stay safe.
Another great tutorial, Alan! Thank you very much. I am intrigued to see which new speedlights you are getting.
Well, I'm not! When I went to order them they are sold out. It is the Godox TT350s that I am getting. Perfect macro flashes.
Thank you so much for responding to my comment, Allan! I was looking to get the same speedlights (TT350s) for my set up unfortunately they are also sold out here in Australia. By the way have you seen Godox new MF 12 speedlights yet?
@@timoohlsen Hi Tim, unfortunately the TT350s are sold out here as well. I never did get them. I am intrigued by the MF12s which won't be out until October. I will probably get a couple to test, but I am concerned about the battery life. As I move to using more and more individual low power flashes, these sound like just the ticket, but not if they can only handle 200 consecutive shots. Hopefully that can do 1200 shots at 1/128, but I will need to make sure before I buy 6 or 8 of them. The TT350s still sound like the better choice and i will get them if they ever come back in stock.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks for your response again, Allan! I really appreciate it . I am really hooked on all this macro photography you are doing, thank you for sharing your immense expertise. It‘s very impressive indeed. Regarding the speedlights- Apparently the new MF 12s are capable to deliver 500 flashes at full power. I am keen to see how they perform in case you decide to test them out. Do you mind me asking, why not get the Lithium-ion powered V350 instead of the TT350s if you are concerned about battery capacity? I know they are a fair bit more expensive but also have more than twice as much flash output. Looking forward to hear your opinion. Many thanks! 🙏
@@timoohlsen That is a great question with a strange answer. I do a lot of flash photography, hundreds of flashes a day, and I pay attention to how my equipment performs. Well I have a mixture of Godox lights (TT600s and V- 8 something or others). Neither of them have power issues if I am using Eneloop Pro batteries, but one of them does overheat if I end up using a high power flash like 1/4 (rarely). And it is always the battery pack flash that drops the shot. So, knowing very little about power, batteries and heat, I am left to believe there is something related to the Li battery pack that is causing thermal shutdown occasionally. That and the price. They are about twice the price and I would also need at least one extra battery pack. I think I am going to go with the MF12s.
dear allen , really good stuff you produce . i especially enjoyed the vertical views on your working table ( apart from the gopro distorsion …) ; but of course i like your face aswell. looking forward for a raynox - relay lens tutorial incl your calculations.
best greetings from switzerland , from an md as well .
toni
I have the Raynox macro lense model M-150. Curious if you made that video. I'm struggling to teach myself to set up and use my Mitutoyo objective 20x.
Ok, first set of questions: I have a 70-200mm f/4 lens (I assume I can just adjust the output power of the flashes to compensate for the lack of a 200mm f/2.8 lens). I assume that is ok? Also, I have 7 step-down rings on the end of it (67 mm thread) to get to 26mm for the objective. That a lot thicker than yours, but it should work, right?
Also, I have an Raynox 150 (and 250) and a bunch of extension tubes with more on the way, so I'd like a setup for that too.
I have one crop body (90D) and two FF bodies (5DS R and R5) that I can use for macro. Currently I'm going to play with the 90D since it is very pixel dense with a 32.5 MP crop-sensor.
I will start building the platform and lighting system soon, but unfortunately, I have some travel to do in between.
Thanks again.
Yes, absolutely - don't worry about the f/4 lens. I should have mentioned that I use my 70-200 at f/4. And yes on the infinity space. You could get away with a lot more than you will have with those step rings.
It's for me! yay! Thanks, Allan!!
Sorry it took a bit longer than I told you, but it turned into a big topic!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Oh, I figured as much and I have no problem waiting as I have many things to do! Thanks.
Again: top!!! Just what we need. Thx Allan!!
The post just delivered the amscope plan 4x. Now i need to figure out how the heck i can mount on my camera :)
Use the black tube cap. Epoxy the cap to the outside of a body cap from your camera. Then drill a hole through body cap and objective cap, Screw the onbjective into the cap and place the body cap on the camera (or extension tubes).
@@AllanWallsPhotography Haha, i figured it out when first opened the package. Thank You! Ordered a RMS to M42 adapter, it will take a few months to get here. Now i need some more extensions. Could buy a piece of blackout cloth locally. Will make a simple bag bellows quickly to be able to try the lens :)
Hi Allen am very impressed with your video and the set-up tutorial.I own a raynox 250 would be nice if you show how to work with the 250.🙏🙂
Will do. I most often use the DCR250 to turn my Nikon CFI Plan 10x Achromat into a sharp 5X objective.
Are 200mm also recommended for APS-C sensor?
Where/how you get that metal standard in front for clamping stuff on? Seems to be a handy thingy. Made it yourself?
Hi Allan nice review, I think you are wrong when saying the Mitutoyo 5x is the sharpest of all. There is the Qioptiq magx 5x which is sharper. I have a second hand one which I got for a fraction of the price.
You know, I have never had my hands on that lens, but you are not the first person to suggest it is even sharper. It is hard to imagine a how it could be, but I am perfectly happy to be wrong. The problem is the $8,600 cost, not to mention the $6K for the 250mm tube lens. So I am afraid that the Mitutoyo is likely to remain the sharpest lens I have ever tested forever! Thanks for setting the record straight. Cheers!
Would like to see a video featuring the Raynox 150 with extension tubes if you have the time. Thank you for your very informative and entertaining videos!
Should be releasing that video later today - if the power holds during the coming deluge - just substitute "bellows" for the same length of extension (and be sure to add some kind of support for that much extension so as not to damage the flange of your camera).
@@AllanWallsPhotography thank you!
Maybe good to tell that the objective is quite heavy and possible need some support beneath the tube/long lens. How to do that I don't know....maybe Allan can give some advice?
It is indeed a very heavy objective - far larger and heavier than any objectives we may run into, with the noted exception of the Qioptic Mag-X LD Plan Achromats that are just a little bit smaller than a grain silo. I would strongly advise against trying to use the M-plan objectives on extension tubes without good support from below. It is a very good way to destroy the aperture actuator mechanism of a DSLR - I know because I did just that to my D850. I recommend investing in a good set of bellows - the Nikon PB-6 or Nikon PB-4 - though others do, apparently exist. With bellows the weight is not an issue and is supported easily withers much infinity distance as you care to add. But if you plan to use extension tubes, mount the camera and the extension tubes on a long Arca-Swiss type rail using tube supports and QR mounting plates (one of theses: amzn.to/37kEXBd and 2-3 of these: amzn.to/3AkzfvX and some of these slip rings with posts (pick the right size for your tubes): www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=9623
Great information! How do we connect the SMALLRIG 9.5 to the Godox V350. I see you have some device on the speed light but don't see a link to where we can get it?
The clamps I am using in the video are these - amzn.to/3rPDDQe - but I had problems with one or both of the springs coming loose. I am hoping the captive cold shoe from SmallRig will be a better alrternative (it is looked in the show notes).
whats the different if i use 24-50 mm lense? and may i know what is the spec of adapter to connect mitutoyo and my lense. thanks
could i use the micro nikkor 200mm f4 as a relay lens for the mitutoyo?????
I would love to see a Raynox video using a bellows and Stackshot. I would especially like to see you use your current preferred setup and technique that you use to create your remarkable images including Stackshot settings, flash settings and specimen setup. I use exposure delay of 3 seconds to raise the mirror and allow vibration to settle as I am unsure how to do the two exposure routine you use. I use the 860 Godox flashes.
I am preparing that video right now, but to address your specific questions, the stackshot settings will vary with the subject, but if in any doubt, shoot a few short stacks of the subject to make sure you are getting good coverage. I use as many Godox V860s as I need, all on minimum power, to get the subtle lighting I like. I hardly ever increase the intensity of a single speedlight, preferring to add another separate light. This cuts down on specularity and makes for more natural fall off. I use a lot of diffusion material - in front of every flash and covering the subject. I prefer to set the stackshot (in the config menu) to 2 shots and I use long delays of 8 seconds Toff and Tpause, 16 seconds total. That, of course, removes any vibration but much more importantly it guarantees that my speedlights will not experience intermittent thermal shutdown, causing misfires and ruining the stack. The first impulse raises the mirror (camera is set in Mup mode) and the second releases the shutter. My go to setup is Raynox in normal orientation at 208mm on bellows, I then add 30mm of infinity space using a stack of step down rings that end with a 26mm ring to accept the Mitutoyo. It has taken me years to settle on this default setup, but I will make occasional tweaks as the subject directs. But the single biggest factor in the final image quality is how you manage the stack after it is shot. The post-stack workflow is at least as critical as the capture. I recommend you watch the stacking and retouching video that is coming out next week to see my most current recommendations for finishing up a shot. Good luck to you!
Thank you Allan! Most informative. I will try to increase my infinity space for my next specimen. I just ordered 2 Godox 860 rechargeable flashes to be main flashes and use my Nikon SB-800 flashes for accent lighting. You mentioned you were looking at some new flashes that might be better. I can return these if you think there is a better way to go. Thank you for all the valuable information you share.
@@BudPerrott I have ordered (or will when they get back in stock) 4 TT350s from Godox. I will let you know how they work out. Congratulations on winning the competition!
Hey Allan! Absolutely love these videos. Have jumped into macro photography for work and am trying hard to get caught up (I have no previous photography experience). Thank you so much for all of this work, including setting up the Discord!
The purpose for this comment is that I would love a video like this involving the setup with the Raynox diopter, as I have no experience with photography I do not have a 200mm lens.
If you get to this, I have a quick question. You mentioned that vignetting is an issue for full-frame cameras (mine is a Canon EOS 5DS), and that you address this in another video (or perhaps intended to). Haven't stumbled across anything on the topic yet and would love to know more, so the question is that if you have addressed this, which video is it in?
Thanks a MILLION!
Hi Daniel, Glad to hear the video was helpful - you have a lot of stuff to catch up on but if you want it, you'll get it. I did a video just like this for the Raynox the week after this - it was exactly what you are looking for - here it is... ruclips.net/video/w9hZiU719Bo/видео.html
Hi Allan thanks once again for a very useful video! I often wonder when or even if you ever get any sleep! :)
A question about stray light.
I have cut out a black foam tube similar to the one you have in the video, to slide over the body of the Mitutoyo which has a very shiny surface.
My foam tube ends just before the end of the objective, the face of which is also very shiny.
I couldn't tell from the video how you had dealt with the end face. Did you extend your tube past the end of the objective? The shiny surface on the end of the objective is too narrow to risk attaching something to it so I wondered if extending the body tube over the end would help in reducing any stray light from the objective tube end.
I can already see how superb the lens is from the two test shots I have taken. Both colour and resolution are outstanding.
I will have to stop buying more gear!
Thanks again,
Barry :)
Well, I am glad you waited until after this lens to start a diet!. I used a foam sleeve with a covering of black flocking material. I let the material extend about 3-4mm in front of the end of the objective and rolled it onto the metallic rim. It is not a great solution - I don't like having adhesive near the glass, so I am taking a much more fitted foam sleeve. A 5mm collar might be enough, unless you are using very perpendicular lighting. This lens is so fantastic it is worth every bit of trouble to protect it from stray light. The results will say a lot more than I can.
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks Allan, appreciated.
Can I clarify if a 200mm lens on a micro four thirds camera would still work as the transport lens? Eg the Panasonic leica 200mm lens. I know the field of view is 2x with the crop but not sure how that would work in this case.
You are correct. It will be a cramped (or intense!) field but the relay lens would still need to be around 200mm focal length and set up at that distance from the sensor.
thanks for this great video, once again, i really learn a lot thank sto you ;) .
About Mitutoyo lens , i was wondering if Mitutoyo Nir (infra red) series lens are better than Mitutoyo M Plan Apo?
are Nir lenses usable for extreme macro anyway?
thanks.
Hi - the NIR version of the lens would work fine but at a much higher cost there is really no reason to it. The NIR and UV versions of the lens are used to deliver laser energy to the target and that is what you are paying for. Seeing as we just need to see the target, we can save the money and buy a new car instead. Of course the opposite is not true - you cannot use a laser with the M-plan Apo - But if a crazy uncle gave you a NIR objective for Christmas I'll let you borrow my laser!
Alan, are you setting the aperture on the relay lens to some setting or wide open?
For a shooting option, is like to see the Raynox set-up.
I use the lens at f/4. I get some weird CAs and a little softening when I use it wide open. I should have mentioned that, but experiment with the lens you will use.
T he wooden blocks are from the game Jenga
Please do the Raynox video!
Working on it!
excellent videos thank you , i have 2 questions if please can help
1- can you suggest a good objective but a cheap one for my 70-200mm lens?
2- if i used my 70-200 lens, what is the difference between infinity corrected objective and the non-infinity corrected one ?
ruclips.net/video/ZUIYW77HKZg/видео.html , i found most of the answer here, still waiting for your suggestion
I think the best deal is the Nikon CFI Plan Achromat 10X. At $200 you won't find anything close to this good. You can find no-name infinity corrected objectives for $30 and they are just rubbish for photography. If there is a cheaper objective of this quality, I don't know about it. As for the second question, you would not need to use your 70-200 with a finite objective - all you need is the correct length of extension. Your 70-200 will work with any infinity objective that requires a 200mm tube lens.
@@AllanWallsPhotography can't thank you enough
Hi Allan. I have a question. How do you keep your flash guns fully operational during a deep stack? If I do a stack over 100 images, the batteries will either drain or the flash will overheat and not fire. I have to do the stack manually because as I reach the end of the stack, the flashes take a long time to recycle- or I have to change the flash or batteries. I’ve killed 2 flash guns already from the abuse I put them through. I use Yongnuo flash guns with Enloop rechargeable batteries. Help me...(help me). I could never use an automatic rail
I had the same. Make the time between the images much longer and try to set the flash as low as possible (1/16 or 1/32). I made it about 16 secs between the shots and even with 1/8 to 1/4 th the problem is over.
On many flash units there is a small 5Volt socket which allows the unit to be powered from the mains via those little wall units that one powers most USB 5Volt equipment from. I have various units from a single outlet to an 8 outlet device, which I plug all my flash units into. I rarely use batteries when doing macro photography indoors. These mains to 5 Volt converters are cheap and readily available, as are the USB power cables. Hope this helps. I do a lot of astronomical photography at a professional research level, as well as macro and photomicrography, and these days so much modern gear is now 12Volt and 5Volt, so my interests overlap and help each other. Southern Cross Observatory-Tasmania 42 South.
Hi Leigh, and thanks to Shevill and Kees for jumping in - My speedlights won't run off the wall (I wish), but I am 99% certain your problem is thermal shutdown of the xenon flash tube. As Kees says there is a limit to how close together you can fire a sequence of shots before the tube accumulates too much heat and has to shut down. I have discovered that for Godox Vxxx speedlights the magic number is 16 seconds. As soon as I programmed a 16 second delay (I use Stackshot and it is actually 2 x 8 second delays), I have never missed another flash. And I routinely do stacks in the 3-400 range. Try that. One other thing that will minimize the problem and help with image quality - instead of adding power, add anther flash. I use 3-6 speedlights but keep them all at 1/128th power if possible. It helps create a wall of light that is extremely flattering for most subjects. It also stops any one flash from getting hot and turning off. Hope that helps!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Yes, I have several small flash units and I looked for those models that can be powered via a USB 5 Volt socket. When used on their minimum flash output I have not run into any overheating issues. As there are just so many flash units on the market it is too wide a topic to start saying which make/models work the best. I have a mix of Nikon, Canon, Godox, Mecablitz etc.
Hi Allan, I was wondering how the Laowa 28mm 2.5 - 5x compared to this objective, i am looking to buy one for my Z6ii, would i get the same results. or will i be wasting money.
Two very, very different optical tools, Peter. The former is a self contained macro lens, with all the benefits and drawbacks of such a device. It is hard to use handheld because of the manual focus (if you aren't used to it) and extremely shallow DOF. The Mitutoyo is a "best in class" optical standard microscope objective that is capable of delivering resolution at the limits of your camera's sensor (2um). The Laowa is a fun, though difficult to handle, lens. It is very prone to diffraction , even wide open at f/2.8 and 5x, and optically it just can't compare to the mitutoyo for image quality. But you can't take the mitutoyo out into the woods (well you can, but not to take pictures), it needs to be mounted on a stable platform, with good lighting, etc. Here's the thing, you buy the LAOWA to use at 5x and you need a ton of patience, a tripod, a lot of luck, and it helps if you like a depth of field 50 microns thick. So to get the most out if you should put it on a rail and focus stack. But if you are going to do that, why not spend the one dollar ($399 vs. $400) and buy the lens that people measure their lenses against. I don't mean to sound like a lens snob, but the only way this decision would be a tough one would be if the Mitutoyo cost $5,000. I'd still end up recommending you find the extra $4,601 to get the Mitutoyo, but at least I would have had to think about it. A top tip ... up to 1:1, use a macro lens, from 1:1 to 3.4:1, use a reversed El Nikkor enlarger lens, or a reversed short prime "D" (35mm to about 50mm), and add some extension for the magnification you want. For anything more that 3.5X, use a microscope objective. There is no comparison. Good luck!
@@AllanWallsPhotography Thanks Allan. I think I will stay out of the wood (you know what bears do in the woods), my thoughts were to eliminate all the add-ons to mount the objective, I bought the 24-200 lens with my camera (1 month old now ) partly for this purpose. I also bought the Laowa 100mm Z mount to replace my old DSLR 90mm tamron, this Laowa lens covers the 1:1 and also gives me 2:1. the reviews so far have been quite good. almost all my macro photos are taken in the macro cage (based on your plans) , either stacked or from a tripod. I tried outdoor macro photography on bumble bees a few days ago, unless seated or using a tripod it is like trying to shoot on a washing machine in full spin with a missing foot (the washing machine, not me). I think I will go with your advice and get the 5X objective, because the chances are, I will always extend the lens and use it in 5X. I will hold of on buying the Laowa (financed) and save for the Mitutoyo, in the meantime I will bug harvest for the upcoming winter
Edit: f200 was referring focal length, my bad.
I assume the flash is required because the apature is that small? E.g. f200 being crazy small.
Eeek, always used led static lighting for my macro, no flash in my kit.
can NIR lenses be used as well?
Yes, but there are better ways to get equally gorgeous pictures for less money - these lenses are correct for near infrared wavelengths so that certain lasers can be directed without interference form aberrations, they are still apochromats, so they are great lenses - but unless you need to point your Neodymium:YAG laser to trim semiconductors, it is probably overkill, You will get all the same optical qualities for a thousand dollars less with the M-plan.
@@AllanWallsPhotography I currently live and work in China and here you get everything new and second hand. (but most of the cheaper things are counterfeit, or broken. also these lenses)
how to spot if one is fake or real?
the problem is, they price the fake ones same as real ones from Japan, so price is not always an indicator.
I am planning to get all the equipment (incl a macro slider) they are 220usd here.
The most important is the lens. I was thinking of using the Nikon Plan 10x. and get rid of chromatic aberration in Photoshop after stacking. (possible?)
thx
I don't see a link to the "Discord" group in the show notes. What am I missing?
I've all but given up trying to access the Discord group.
My bad - I had to edit the show notes a couple of times and somehow lost the invitation - it will be there in 3.6 minutes - thanks for letting me know!
@@AllanWallsPhotography कृतज्ञोऽस्मि/कृतज्ञास्मि
@@rollingalong You are most welcome, Bill.
Has anyone done this with a sony a7 series?
I know a few of my regular viewers are using this objective on the a7. If you check out our Discord group (invite in the video description) and ask your question over there, someone will be able to help you.
Discord link is broken Allan
I keep fixing it, it keeps breaking! Just replaced it. Thanks!
@@AllanWallsPhotography lovely thanks joined
astrolab