Do I have to Show the Police My ID? - PA

[@NTNCNEWS]

What kind of lawyer tells you to give up your rights?

[@rayh592]

One who gets paid regardless of your guilt.

[@Ortega570]

I literally just thought this exact comment. Without RAS they have no need to obtain id from anyone. Unless you are in the process of or are suspected to have committed a crime.

[@rosek4180]

The best part was “Get your lawyer on scene.” 🤣🤔🤣

[@mikemizur6794]

September 2019...Commonwealth V hicks determined "the mere presence of a firearm is NOT reason to stop". PA Supreme Court

[@jonnybaze7449]

So if anyone wanted an actual answer, when lawfully under arrest or if lawfully stopped as the driver of a vehicle. Wasn’t that hard. Idk why a 3 minute video couldn’t simply say that.

[@jasonkerekesch5012]

I live in western ĺPennsylvania. I've been open carrying my pistol for the past 8 years, and the cops have not been called once, nor have I been asked to leave anywhere because of my gun. I've had it in banks, chain(Walmart, Lowe's, home depot, all fast food chains, you name it my guns probably been there, and mom and pop stores, etc. and even the court house. They are required by law to have lock boxes to store your firearms while you do your business. The only place my gun has not been to is the post office, still illegal to have it there. I have not gotten any negative comments from anyone, just asking what am i carrying. Only other comment i have gotten was, just cause you open carry doesn't mean you should leave your wallet on the counter. Gotten pulled over a lot of times for bad inspection stickers and the only cop that had an issue with my gun was a rookie that was unfamiliar with the gun laws, he was from and trained in a different state. I always tell police i have my sidearm on me and i have my concealed carry permit, which by law i am not required to do, it is appreciated by the police officers though,( which some have said that is why they gave me a warning and not a ticket). The only one that wanted to separate me from my gun during traffic stop was the rookie from another state. All the other cops didn't even care, they never even asked to see my permit even after i reminded them. One cop even vented about the stupid politicians trying to take gun rights from citizens. I actually got from a cop," if they take away guns from law abiding citizens, then only the cops and criminals would have guns, and the criminals have way more guns". She also said," in most cases the cops aren't there when your life is on the line. People need to learn to protect themselves and others", she said she thought everyone should be armed because the police can't be everywhere all the time. It was night and real late on a dark county road, she knew i was armed and she never was concerned about my gun, and never called for backup. I haven't had any issues with my gun and police, even when i am armed in the police station. They never even looked twice.

[@iH85CH001]

You are the luckiest person alive then lolol

[@Axis.Mundis.]

When he says about getting home safely, implies violence on there part to me.

[@doctormcgoveran2194]

why don't you out draw them, and get what you deserve.

[@kellyyyanneee]

@@doctormcgoveran2194 you’re an idiot for saying something so dumb.

[@Grendelbc]

Pa is NOT a stop and ID state. You are only required to present ID after you have been lawfully arrested.

[@jonnybaze7449]

No debate necessary. If they say you are detained inquire why and of course record everything.

[@889976889]

You didn't really anwser the question about do you legally have to. Because pa is not a stop and Id state

[@mltmanlz28]

Most states require people to identify once they are detained. In order to be detained... police need reasonable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a crime. That same thing applies to Stop and ID states... the police still need Reasonable Suspicion of a crime to request your identification(police can't simply walk up to random people for no reason and demand they identify, that is not how Stop and ID works). It is rare that police will ever actually have reasonable suspicion but that will not stop them from claiming they do. Keep in mind that police can legally lie about anything to manipulate the people they force interactions with into waiving their Rights. If you want to avoid the possibility of being arrested or assaulted, your best bet is to identify yourself once a cop tells you that you are being detained. Even if a cop does not have the authority to detain you(no reasonable suspicion), that will not stop them from escalating to the point of arresting or harming you... they will not be held accountable for their actions. More likely than not, the most that will happen to the cop who violates your Rights, is that he/she will get a paid vacation. You will never get an apology or any admission of guilt, not matter how out of control a cops gets or how many crimes they commit against you. THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE!!!
If you have family that you are responsible for and do not want to risk leaving them alone(avoid the possibility of being locked in a cage, put in the hospital, or killed) , i suggest complying with police once they claim you are being detained. When i say comply, i simply mean give them your name and birth date when requested. Otherwise do not answer any questions, in fact you are better off remaining completely silent once you have identified. If you want to continue to challenge police authority even after they claim to have Reasonable Suspicion, you better know all the laws that might apply to the situation(such as loitering/prowling laws, trespassing laws, disorderly conduct laws, breach of the peace laws, obstructions laws, etc.). Try to remain calm and polite no matter how much the cop acts like a criminal tyrant. Say as little as possible. Never admit to anything and do not volunteer any information. NONE OF THIS IS LEGAL ADVISE!!!!
I personally have no family or anyone that relies on me, so i will always assert my Rights and refuse to waive them for any reason! I will question police authority at ever turn, even if that means risking my freedom and/or my life. The reason i came here to watch this video is because i am hoping to get some clarity on something i believe to be true. In the state of Pennsylvania, i believe that a person does no have to identify even when detained. I believe that the only times a person has to identify to police is when they are stopped for a traffic code violation(which anyone with a drivers licence has agreed to) and when a person has been arrested! AGAIN, THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE!!! I will refuse to identify unless i have been arrested! Since police can legally lie, i will always assume that everything they say is a lie. Until i am arrested, i have to believe that they do not have the authority to demand that i identify. I am willing to risk everything to arrest my Rights to the extreme. I DO NOT suggest anyone else follow in my foot steps, especially if you have people that depend on you! ALWAYS consider how your actions or the actions taken against you would effect those you care about, before risking escalation!

[@rayh592]

He's a lawyer, he makes money, it doesn't matter if you are guilty or not. He would prefer you get arrested even for no reason, he gets paid!
Lawyers and judges are all party of the same curious government protected by the police.

[@mariosolis6064]

@@mltmanlz28 Reasonable suspicion can be established. Using ol' Bucko the lawyer's example, passing motorists may have spotted a guy near a populated neighborhood or busy highway with an AR. Sure, he may lawfully be able to. However, reasonable suspicion is already there based on the circumstances and in turn, you become the subject of an official police investigation.
Sure, you may be a gun totin' pistolero proud of his constitutional rights with a spotless record. Passing motorists don't know you, nor does the cop. Maybe you have ill intent. But then again, that's where reasonable suspicion comes into play.
Stay safe !

[@mltmanlz28]

@@mariosolis6064 Wrong! The report of a legal activity does not constitute Reasonable Suspicion! Detainment requires reasonable suspicion OF A CRIME! Even if you have a long conversation with someone, you still will never be able to know their intent! Police do not have authority to detain someone because they are trying to figure out intent. Terry V Ohio , Delaware V Prouse require suspicion of a specific crime before police can detain an individual. Brown V Texas prevents police from stopping people and demanding ID. Deberry V US says a firearm where legally carried can not be the only cause for detainment. Like i said... police rarely ever actually have reasonable suspicion. The moment they make a claim of crime in order to force someone to waive their Rights, they open their self up to a lawsuit.
A concerned person can not waive the Rights of others. Police can not detain people without a legitimate reasonable articulable suspicion of a specific crimes. Most people like you will waive your Rights without question but your opinions on others having to waive their Rights to satisfy you or the cops is not valid! Again, police have very little authority and only if they have suspicion of a specific crime and can explain why they have suspicion. Suspicion in and of itself is not sufficient for detainment.
Here is an example: If a cop sees a person late at night dressed in all black.... that does not meet Reasonable Supsicion of a crime. If a cop sees someone walking with a crow bar... that does not meet Reasonable Suspicion of a crime. If a cop sees a man walking through a yard.... it does not meet Reasonable Supicion of a crime. Now, if you put all those things together... they do meet Reasonable Socpion of a crime having been committed, being committed, or about to be committed! As individual acts there is nothing criminal about it but if a cop sees a person dressed in all black late at night walking through a yard carrying a crowbar... then he has reason to suspect the person might be involved in criminal activity!

[@mariosolis6064]

@@mltmanlz28 Well put. Thanks for your response

[@1995dresser]

I just tell them to call my Mom

[@lordwhatever3957]

1995dresser that’s the right choice

[@emanirodriguez9950]

Curious , does Penndot or John yurconic agency run your name for warrants when going in with photo card to take photo for I.d

[@MrRdvs87]

Any specifics on how the drug state of emergency plays into this?

[@jamesm1755]

do a video on open carry and how to transport in a vehicle without at ltc

[@robertbaker50]

"RUclips Hero" Hey Bud, those youtube heros fight for our rights to record in public places.

[@kellyyyanneee]

He also says “it might not be the best thing to do” but it is the right thing to do. We must shine a light on this tyrants everywhere they are found.

[@timmack2415]

This doesn't really answer anything. When MUST I show ID? If I'm doing nothing illegal, must I ID upon command? Police almost always say that you're being detained for "investigation" or some other vague reason.

[@rvr1892]

In PA you NEVER have id, NEVER. It is up to the police to figure out who you are, PERIOD. One exception, if you are the driver of a vehicle involved in a traffic violation BUT there must be a violation.

[@timmack2415]

@@rvr1892 I realize it's not a stop and ID state, but the law says that you must ID If "You're the subject of an investigation or if you've been detained"

[@doaknife9161]

One thing needs to be done in PA if the cops are called because you are legally carrying your gun the way you're supposed to in PA and somebody happens to see it and calls the cops they need to take and tell the person to called that it's an open carry state as long as he wasn't waving or harassing anybody with it there is nothing we can do and behave as such that's what our officers in Pennsylvania need to do instead of saying that if you scare those people again with your gun they're going to yank your permit that's what needs to be done

[@MachoRaton]

Get your lawyer on scene who does that ? This guy is a lawyer he just wants you to do that so he can get paid if he shows out that’s going to cost lots of money . Walking down the street with an open carry is just looking for trouble the cops don’t know what’s going on better have a concealed permit open carry in the street is an ego trip
I have had a concealed weapon permit for years never had a problem with anyone, it’s concealed.

[@DarkStar9650]

What would you say concerning ID pertaining to case law TERRY V OHIO and BROWN V TEXAS? Not to exclude case law DeBerry v US by demanding ID!

[@Dan-mm5iy]

In Texas you have a penal code (38-04) staying you don’t have to give or show id if you have not broken any laws

[@DarkStar9650]

@@Dan-mm5iy try Texas Penal Code (38.02)

[@rayh592]

@@DarkStar9650 meaningless in Pennsylvania.

[@euler2589]

Pretty good actually.

[@MrRdvs87]

What about philly since you need an LTCF, even for OC?

[@BNails]

The rules are the same for Philly cops as they are for everywhere else. If you are legal, you are legal. If not, then not.
But Philly cops are notorious for making stuff up. Best bet: shut up other than asking if you are free to leave. If yes, leave. If no, shut up and do nothing until you can leave or until you are arrested. And then call a lawyer if you are. :)

[@nickabel8279]

I was always warned in Philly your gun will be taken n you arrested regardless of law.
I would highly recommend against oc in philly

[@MrRdvs87]

Check out James Moody. He’s got a few videos of him telling them to pack sand.

[@dusteedawg2915]

So if I have a pistol on my side..... viewable to EVERYONE and a cop asks to i.d I can keep walking ..... Now does that change if it's a conceal carry someone just happened to spot?? ? Love this stuff so many variables.

[@monco123]

So the smartest thing to do is lawyer up and get ready to pay those $100 an hour attorney rates? Such great advise.

[@mltmanlz28]

It is the smartest thing but if you can not afford a proper lawyer, you can always educate yourself. A good place to start is by reading any laws that might someday apply to you. It is always good to know the laws pertaining to things that police like to jam people up on. Such as loitering/prowling laws, trespassing laws, disorderly conduct laws, breach of the peace laws, obstructions laws, etc. Here is where you can find any state law www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/Public/cons_index.cfm . Most laws you would be interested in learning about is Title 18 Crimes and Offenses.... Good Luck.

[@angiepagan4064]

@@mltmanlz28 YES!! U hit the nail on the head!
Moncol- Even if u DO have funds for a lawyer, u should STILL educate yourself and always know your rights!! The more u know, the less cops, or anyone else, can get over on u or trip u up. Abuse of authority is definitely REAL and many times it's because the officers don't actually KNOW the laws they're supposed to be upholding, so they do whatever they want...

[@barryervin5297]

My question, as a PA resident, is what ID am I required to have on my person to show them? Obviously if I'm engaged in some activity that requires a license or permit or whatever I am legally required to show that (driving, flying an aircraft, concealed carrying, operating a good concession, etc). But I'm not aware of any actual ID card that I'm legally required to carry on my person to walk down the sidewalk or ride my bicycle in the park or sit in Dunkin Donuts drinking coffee in PA. How can a cop demand to see something that I don't have to have? It reminds me of old movies about Nazis and the Gestapo. Papers please!

[@rayluse744]

To the best of my knowledge a driver's license is only required while driving. Otherwise your only required to give them your name and D.O.B. You don't need to provide a physical ID card.

[@phillyrepo8927]

Barry Ervin your only required to have your license if your driving. If your walking down the street and you are detained by police, you would just give them your name and dob. Btw in our state of PA you do not have to disclose to police you are carrying a firearm unless they ask, then you would need to tell them and show your LTCF. If you think your being wronged by police, comply while making it clear you are doing so under protest and video record your encounter if possible, then call an attorney.

[@Grendelbc]

There is no state that requires you to carry ID at all times, Obviously, driving or some activity that requires a permit or license is a different story. Pa is NOT a stop and ID state. You are not required to ID unless you have been arrested for an actual crime. Even in a stop and ID state, police would need to have reasonable suspicion of a crime in order to demand ID.

[@erickozak4615]

be polite about your rights.

[@kellyyyanneee]

Polite but extremely assertive.

[@carvedwood1953]

This is wild. Who would pay for a lawyer whose advice is "well just let them violate your rights."

[@camarols6712]

ok this is the law if you did nothing wrong you DO NOT HAVE TO SHOW A COP OR ANYONE YOUR ID PERIOD A COP CAN NOT JUST DEMAND ANYONE TO SHOW ID

[@Markbeb3]

No you do not have to show id only if they contain you if they believe you commit a crime

[@thewalkingdad6519]

Horrible laws.

[@kdanagger6894]

The problem is that if you ask if you are being detained and if you are free to go, they can say that by attempting to flee, you are acting as if you have something to hide because you are unwilling to cooperate.
Now they can claim that they have reasonable suspicion and probable cause to detain you or even arrest you if you leave without their "permission".
You are caught in a trap that has been carefully crafted to violate your 4th amendment rights...
So basically, you can fight for your rights, but in the end you are going to piss off the Police officer because you are demanding that your rights take precedence over his ego and power. In many cases, the cop will get a hard-on and you will lose the battle for your constitutional rights.
Unfortunately, the best recourse is to lick his/her boots and act like a submissive coward. You may be late for work, a doctors appointment, or even be denied freedom to quickly attend to an imminent medical emergency. Cops don't care about stuff like that. It sucks but that is the state of your Constitutional rights today. Basically, you don't have any. The Bill of Rights has been trampled like cow shit in a corral.

[@BNails]

If you ask if you are free to go, you aren't leaving. You're asking. I'm not sure how it would be "attempting to flee".
And "acting as if you have something to hide" is not a crime. At worst, they can detain you, but they wouldn't have probable cause to arrest.
In short, keep asking if you are free to go. If yes, leave. If no, wait a while and ask again. If they don't answer, ask again with the addition of "I'm assuming I'm free to go unless you tell me otherwise. That said, am I free to go?" If they still don't answer, you're good.

[@mltmanlz28]

Brian basically answered the question, but you should probably be recording. That way if the cop tries to arrest you for leaving, after he told you that you were not being detained.... you will have evidence to prove you did nothing wrong. Otherwise they will believe the cop over you and the truth will not matter.
Yes the whole system is stack against the public and police are basically acting like gangster nowadays. Everything they say is a lie meant to manipulate people into waiving their Rights out of fear. All any of us can do is be well informed on the Laws, our Rights, and how to exercise them. Even then police can still ruin your life for no reason and they will probably get a paid vacation for doing so.

[@jasonkerekesch5012]

Ok you said their is no caselaw that requires you to id. So what happens if you are arrested for say murder after a cop watched you do it. You are saying you legally don't have to id? What would happen if they couldn't id you? So what would happen after that? I'm pretty sure they are not going to let a murderer out on bail or something like that without knowing who they are. Maybe not the best example, but you know what i mean.

[@mltmanlz28]

CONTEXT: He is saying there is no case law for Pennsylvania that requires someone to identify when Open Carrying!
If you are arrested for anything, you are required to identify(that applies to every state)!

[@doctormcgoveran2194]

If i am talking to the cops I start right out, with my name and address, and my flat record. I am the vicitm here not a reason to hide my name or face..

[@Grendelbc]

Well, that was pretty much worthless. Three minutes of bullshit without answering the question. Not a lawyer I want.

[@fromratstocorn7144]

The answer is NO, you don't have to show them shit...

[@ddaverr]

Basically from what I heard, the cops dont know the law so they will say you are detained and have to show ID.

[@fromratstocorn7144]

@@ddaverr if the cops tell you that, ask them why are they detaining you or are you under arrest and if you're free to go? They need a reason, they can't just ask you for your information if you haven't done anything wrong...

[@jF-ve6oy]

Md

[@rayluse744]

This video was most uninformative! You should have just said, let the police trample over your constitutional rights and hope for the best!!!

[@wencroom]

The best way to keep the situation from escalating is NOT to appear to be commiting a crime in the first place. While there are a few badge heavy law enforcement types out there most Leo's just want to make sure that persons that they make contact with are not going to commit a crime. While technically you may have the right to refuse to cooperate fully, the best course of action is provided ID and comply with the officer's instructions. 99 percent of all issues get resolved quickly and efficiently. For that issue that is more complicated then professional legal assistance may be required. In any case, cooperation goes a long way in eliminating stressful encounters.

[@jacobsladder6715]

No it's not... police want to walk up on you ask for ID so they can see if you have warrants. This is not the lottery.. stop them IF THEY HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG.

[@BNails]

The best course of action is to be polite and follow the law, and say as little as possible to the police to the point of saying nothing.
Provide ID only if legally required, but refuse (if merely detained) politely. If arrested, comply.
Don't give up your rights simply because a cop asked you to.

[@angiepagan4064]

The issue with that is that these cops do what they want cuz they THINK they can! NO one should have to comply to illegal actions or actions that interfere with their rights. What's the use of having rights if we don't USE them?! How are we to expect anyone else to defend our rights if we won't even do it for ourselves?? The cops are NOT the law, they only uphold the law (or are supposed to anyway). Too many cops think they either are the law or are above it, but don't even KNOW the laws they're supposed to be upholding! And they succeed in their actions cause most citizens don't even know their basic rights. Only we can change that by educating ourselves. The more us citizens know the law and stand up for ourselves and our rights- the less that abuse will occur, the less people will be affected by their actions, and the more cops will be JUSTLY held accountable for their actions. I'm not saying be ignorant or disrespectful. Be polite while informing them of your rights and that u will not consent to anything that interferes with or denies u of those rights. Follow through with it and never comply to illegal and/or unlawful actions. We have rights for a reason! We can't expect the ever going issue of police abuse and brutality to go away on its it's own cause it'll only get worse. Nothing has ever been resolved until ppl finally get fed up with the BS, put their foot down and stand up for themselves and others. And nothing ever will be

[@kellyyyanneee]

Hahaha Wendell you think it’s just a few cops? I think we’re at a tipping point where 50% should not be police in this country.

[@nickabel8279]

You gloss over something.
If the cops continue to refuse to answer are u being detained or am I free to go (they often do) can you leave?
Also. Given date of video current watchers should know a 2019 pa ruling says carrying does not justify a stop. Read more on this and do not take a random youtube comment on this!

[@jeffl4802]

Cops already decided if you are guilty so listen to them.... unless you are a youtuber doing it for views... is this real advice?

[@NSTOHON]

show it every time they ask for it fool!!!

[@BobbyFett3994]

EAST-END JUSTICE Well said, E-E J.

[@fromratstocorn7144]

Bowhunter320 no you're the fool!!!

[@rayluse744]

If you want to throw away your constitutional rights go for it! But don't cry about it when their gone!!

[@BNails]

In that case, send me your wallet and bank information when I ask too.
And I'm now asking.

[@MrRdvs87]

No thanks.

[@timon184]

If they have no Reasonable Articulable Suspicion they can go kick rocks and you too LAWYER. What kind of Lawyer are you to tell citizens not to exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS?

[@jF-ve6oy]

Md