Messed up on the titling of the paintings! The second J.M.W Turner Painting is " The Burning of the Houses of Parliment" 1834 and the third Turner painting is "Abergavveny Bridge" 1798
I just found your channel and I have to say it has been so hard to find someone who is producing content in exactly my interests! This is so niche, but nevertheless here you are! That being said, I have a mango tree at my house and its currently in bloom, so there are leaves a plenty!
Doing some research of my own, I found 1) The mango leaves do not contain euxanthone when fresh, they only have a precursor chemical which decays into euxanthone as the leaves rot and ferment. So you need to leave the leaves around to decay for a long time before beginning, for starters. From there, it's the starting point of these people's paper, search art conservation buffalo state "Preparation of a synthetic Indian Yellow" which seems to have about 5 laboratory synthesis steps to turn it into an acid and then in turn a magnesium or calcium salt. My best guess at how to throw a hail mary at replicating their process would be: 2) You need to deprotonate the compound in your (rotten) mango leaves into an alkoxide, by adding pure sodium metal I think in a suspension of **OIL** NOT WATER (water explodes and makes things that get in your way anyway). I don't know where you'd find that and never done this before. It's by far the hardest and most questionable step. Sodium metal isn't THAT hard to get, I don't think, but not easy. 3) It should then saponify with the oil it's already in from the last step, same as lye makes soap with oil, but instead of the lye here you're using the euxanthic alkoxide you made in step 2. If you had any significant water in the last step, sodium metal would make lye and create regular soap which you don't want. 4) Add strong sodium hydroxide 5) Add dilute hydrochloric acid 6) Filter off the precipitated solid and wash it thoroughly with water to get rid of the table salt you don't want in solution (sodium and chlorine from earlier steps) 7) re-dissolve your solid (euxanthic acid) and now mix it with hydrated magnesium chloride specifically, which is apparently available as a health supplement. You definitely don't want some crazy mixture of 20 things that would absolutely ruin it, just magnesium chloride. WITH ammonium hyroxide (available as various ammonia based cleaners, whatever has the most pure ingredient list on the label) 8) Filter again the solid, and that's maybe hopefully sort of indian yellow I give this like a 5% chance of working, if doing all that, lol
As I mentioned in a comment on another video just a few minutes ago, Egyptian Blue would be an already slightly challenging cool project that is like 20x simpler than this one though and vastly more likely to succeed, it's just calcinating (heating in a makeshift kiln or sustained charcoal fire for hours) a mixture of common things, and makes a very pretty and highly stable blue mineral pigment. "The blue pigment had been made by heating a mixture of a calcium compound (carbonate, sulfate or hydroxide), copper compound (oxide or malachite) and quartz or silica gel in proportions that correspond to a ratio of 4 SiO: 1 CaO: 1 CuO to a temperature of 900 °C using a flux of sodium carbonate, potassium carbonate or borax." So, in other words, 1 part chalk, 4 parts fine sand, 1 part the copper carbonate you already have lying around, and 1 part borax or washing soda, then calcinate
@@NadaMakes1 I've been making pigments myself recently, so I wanted to look it up for myself too. The first one ended up turning out to be more of a "Here's why this is doomed and I don't think we have any idea what we're doing enough to try it safely" more than an actual game plan though. :(
Add salt to the mixture before letting it sit. Salt will draq the color out. Kinda like how you make sauerkraut or fermented veggies. See if that helps.
Oh wow i was having so much fun watching these pigment videos! It's so unique! I don't see other people doing tests like this. Hope you come back again soon, Nada!
Ah thank you! I really appreciate that. Ive been busy finishing school and ive started doing electronics now but I do want to come back and make some more! It was so much fun and a great way to connect with people
@@NadaMakes1 yay you're alive! Well no worries, maybe when you come back you'll have better methods to make pigments, or you can just make vlogs to update us what's up on so on. :)
Human stomachs are acidic because we're mostly carnivorous. Dogs are more carnivorous than we are, and their stomachs are more acidic (which is why dogs can usually eat rotten meat without getting sick). Herbivores like cows need to keep bacteria alive in their stomachs, so they're roughly pH-neutral.
Maybe the vinegar was not strong enough to break the pigment apart. Acetic acid is a weak one and it might cause you some problems. Also the tablets could have some additives and could 'help' this unsuccess. If you want to simulate the stomach acidity, maybe you need some hydrochloric acid in a very low concentration, as it is a strong acid. Also, you could switch the salts too, if you get access to a new bunch of mango leaves. I'm pretty afraid and disappointed that great results could be achieved with dangerous and corrosive substances, but...oh well... Watched and loved your videos, especially the lake pigments ones (and the results presentation, saved a lot of waiting time). Maybe you'd try some madder red lake pigment experiments.
I know you tried black cherries, but what about trying pomegranate? I don’t know how easily black cherries stain things, but I know pomegranate stains fairly easily.
Buffers really have a wide range (Taken biotechnology) you could ferment the leaves in milk bacteria, over the leaves as a source of sugar. Adding for example 5 g citric acid and 5 g sodium citrate to 250-300 ml of hot water may protect the pigments from degrading. If you can afford it look into buffers on ebay or a supplier.
YAY!!! Nada is back! Hmmm...I'm definitely going to have to experiment with mango leaves next time I'm at my west African home where I have a mango tree in my yard.
By the way, you've inspired me to make lots more lake pigments and it has frankly gotten out of control. If you have access to Facebook or Etsy, look up TexasWildColor and you'll find how far I've gone. Thanks for all your early videos. I just keep making more and more lake pigments and bunches of watercolor paints. One of these days I'll try mixing some of my pigments with linseed oil to make oil paints too... Blessings as you return to Canada. Hope you can find some things there to experiment with. I lived north of Quebec City for a while back in the early 2000s. If I were up there now, I'd likely experiment with the wild blueberries and other berries. Glad to see you back on RUclips!
Hey Marc! sorry i thought i already replied oops! Been loving seeing your pigments, they are really great! This summer im def plundering quebecs natural dyes lol!
First, thank you very much for this great research. I was able to make a lake pigment with your recipie, I changed a few steps and added a few things. Now i have a vibrant yellow rock. please contact me so I can share the process and some photos of the result. Best Regards!
Did you ever try to just do a straight lake pigment from mango leaves or mango fruit juice? You could at least do mango fruit up there in Canada I'm thinking. Just wondering if doing a lake pigment and experimenting with PH...different quantities of alum and washing soda might yield something.
Hey! I was wondering....when you grind your pigments with a coffee grinder, did it grind them down fine enough to make a smooth paint? Or do you put the pigment back through the coffee grinder again to get it even finer??
Hey sorry this is super late! I think I just grind it once but now that I look back I cringe at how lazy that was. One can get really deep into the milling/ grinding part and make something commercial level at home just have to do a lot of research and be mathematical about size.
hi nada i just entered your channel for the first time i was looking for Egyptian channels on reddit there was subreddit that mentioned your channel. im a computer science senior student i never been a fan of any kind of art and im not proud of that but sow this video and really touched something beautiful in it i saw your timeline and you don't post often hope to see more of you. and also please link in rply any account of you on any social media platform hope to see other aspects of your life if that doesn't invade your privacy :'D
Wow what a lovely comment, im honored to have been a bridge for you into the art world lmao - its a pretty chill world. Really glad you enjoy the content - I am indeed horrible at posting regularly but thats because im low key a hermit and I hate social media in general. Seeing comments from people like you though who find value in what I make definitely puts a fire under my ass to make more and to make it better! So thank you :) my only other social media is Instagram (@nadamakes) I really dont post often there but I do post a lot of stories!
Well done! Would love to see you actually create oil paint from your Indian Yellow to see if it performs as historically reported. So glad to see you debunking the "animal abuse" myth STILL out there!!!
As a hobbyist oils painter with an interest in historic pigments, I've seen the resurgence of vermilion and lead white return to use. I've also seen someone on YT who collects old paints sets with obsolete pigments, including genuine emerald green and mummy brown. He actually experimented with replicating mummy brown from mummified fish. I love how you took the Indian Yellow myth head on!
Maybe you should check Ebay for chemicals to ferment the leaves. Maybe you could try a buffer Like sodium acetate + Acetic acid to digest the Mango leaves? Yeast or bacteria can help.
@@NadaMakes1 you are welcome, I'm reading The Practical Treatise on Painting in Oil-Colours. It explains where oil paints pigments came from, it is not an easy process at all!
Good research! We've been experimenting with natural colour, with effective results. However, we have not been able to replicate environment of cow's bladder, etc. so 'Indian Yellow' remains something of a mystery.
Hey nada you should look up a video by the name of the search for forgotten colors and art of making natural dyes it might give a new idea on how to make dyes and pigments ☺
I know how hard it is to make videos but if your in trouble or something else and how sad it is to make something that you put a lot of time in and it still doesn't work . but we will always be there for your return (plz don't be freasured to make a video ) that's all from me hopeing to see you in a another vid
You have no idea how much I needed to hear that! I think maybe the next video I should make should be about why I haven't been making these pigments. A lot of it does come from fear of failure (something ive been exploring and confronting in my time off) and how watching the natural pigments fade reminded me of atrophy/ impermanence and other things that at the time (I still kinda do) find terrifying. Thank you so much your words are valuable to me!
@@NadaMakes1 I really hope that you can find help. I can see that you are in a lot of pain but don't never give up . I hope one day that you find true happiness . No, I know you will true happiness . Can't wait for the next video.thank you for all the nice compliment. I also have a chanel (ohhsorry1010 . i know it's a wired name.)and i just can't think of what to upload. If I want do to some thing then I don't have the things I need and many more but this reply is getting long. Thank you again and I hope that we can be better RUclipsr .
While the chemical building blocks are present in the Mango leaves, the actual 'Indian Yellow' was created by the Cow's liver. And I'm afraid this biochemical process is far too complex to be easily reproducible. Also, using cows this way was outlawed in India already 1876 (? IIRC). The often quoted 1908 date seems like a misunderstanding, but could have something to do with when the law started to be enforced in practice on the production of Indian Yellow. There is a vast array of much better yellow pigments available today, so nobody is really interested in synthesizing this any longer. You'll find some of these much better pigments in artist paints labeled as "Indian Yellow".
Hi Nada, we're glad to have you back.
Glad to be back! Thanks for still sticking around
There is just something so satisfying about watching mortar and pestleing in time lapse
Messed up on the titling of the paintings! The second J.M.W Turner Painting is " The Burning of the Houses of Parliment" 1834 and the third Turner painting is "Abergavveny Bridge" 1798
I've been live part time in a place with mango trees. I used your standard lake method with alum and washing soda and it makes a great yellow.
Oh no, way thats awesome!
I just found your channel and I have to say it has been so hard to find someone who is producing content in exactly my interests! This is so niche, but nevertheless here you are!
That being said, I have a mango tree at my house and its currently in bloom, so there are leaves a plenty!
It really is niche huh lol! Im really really glad you enjoy the videos though, means a lot to me
@@NadaMakes1 totally agree. It is the creative process entirely.
Doing some research of my own, I found 1) The mango leaves do not contain euxanthone when fresh, they only have a precursor chemical which decays into euxanthone as the leaves rot and ferment. So you need to leave the leaves around to decay for a long time before beginning, for starters. From there, it's the starting point of these people's paper, search art conservation buffalo state "Preparation of a synthetic Indian Yellow" which seems to have about 5 laboratory synthesis steps to turn it into an acid and then in turn a magnesium or calcium salt.
My best guess at how to throw a hail mary at replicating their process would be:
2) You need to deprotonate the compound in your (rotten) mango leaves into an alkoxide, by adding pure sodium metal I think in a suspension of **OIL** NOT WATER (water explodes and makes things that get in your way anyway). I don't know where you'd find that and never done this before. It's by far the hardest and most questionable step. Sodium metal isn't THAT hard to get, I don't think, but not easy.
3) It should then saponify with the oil it's already in from the last step, same as lye makes soap with oil, but instead of the lye here you're using the euxanthic alkoxide you made in step 2. If you had any significant water in the last step, sodium metal would make lye and create regular soap which you don't want.
4) Add strong sodium hydroxide
5) Add dilute hydrochloric acid
6) Filter off the precipitated solid and wash it thoroughly with water to get rid of the table salt you don't want in solution (sodium and chlorine from earlier steps)
7) re-dissolve your solid (euxanthic acid) and now mix it with hydrated magnesium chloride specifically, which is apparently available as a health supplement. You definitely don't want some crazy mixture of 20 things that would absolutely ruin it, just magnesium chloride. WITH ammonium hyroxide (available as various ammonia based cleaners, whatever has the most pure ingredient list on the label)
8) Filter again the solid, and that's maybe hopefully sort of indian yellow
I give this like a 5% chance of working, if doing all that, lol
As I mentioned in a comment on another video just a few minutes ago, Egyptian Blue would be an already slightly challenging cool project that is like 20x simpler than this one though and vastly more likely to succeed, it's just calcinating (heating in a makeshift kiln or sustained charcoal fire for hours) a mixture of common things, and makes a very pretty and highly stable blue mineral pigment.
"The blue pigment had been made by heating a mixture of a calcium
compound (carbonate, sulfate or hydroxide), copper compound (oxide or
malachite) and quartz or silica gel in proportions that correspond to a
ratio of 4 SiO: 1 CaO: 1 CuO to a temperature of 900 °C using a flux of sodium carbonate, potassium carbonate or borax."
So, in other words, 1 part chalk, 4 parts fine sand, 1 part the copper carbonate you already have lying around, and 1 part borax or washing soda, then calcinate
This is so awesome! Thanks for taking the time to write this its really wild (in the best way)
@@NadaMakes1 I've been making pigments myself recently, so I wanted to look it up for myself too. The first one ended up turning out to be more of a "Here's why this is doomed and I don't think we have any idea what we're doing enough to try it safely" more than an actual game plan though. :(
Glad your back! Love these videos!
Youve been there since the very start almost, thanks for not giving up on me
Add salt to the mixture before letting it sit. Salt will draq the color out. Kinda like how you make sauerkraut or fermented veggies. See if that helps.
I will note that down, thank you!
Oh wow i was having so much fun watching these pigment videos! It's so unique! I don't see other people doing tests like this. Hope you come back again soon, Nada!
Ah thank you! I really appreciate that. Ive been busy finishing school and ive started doing electronics now but I do want to come back and make some more! It was so much fun and a great way to connect with people
@@NadaMakes1 yay you're alive! Well no worries, maybe when you come back you'll have better methods to make pigments, or you can just make vlogs to update us what's up on so on. :)
when you add tablets like that you are allready messing whit the color since they usually hold titanium white wich gives them uniformed white color
Thats a great point!
Human stomachs are acidic because we're mostly carnivorous. Dogs are more carnivorous than we are, and their stomachs are more acidic (which is why dogs can usually eat rotten meat without getting sick). Herbivores like cows need to keep bacteria alive in their stomachs, so they're roughly pH-neutral.
I did not know that, thanks!
Maybe the vinegar was not strong enough to break the pigment apart. Acetic acid is a weak one and it might cause you some problems. Also the tablets could have some additives and could 'help' this unsuccess. If you want to simulate the stomach acidity, maybe you need some hydrochloric acid in a very low concentration, as it is a strong acid. Also, you could switch the salts too, if you get access to a new bunch of mango leaves. I'm pretty afraid and disappointed that great results could be achieved with dangerous and corrosive substances, but...oh well...
Watched and loved your videos, especially the lake pigments ones (and the results presentation, saved a lot of waiting time).
Maybe you'd try some madder red lake pigment experiments.
I know you tried black cherries, but what about trying pomegranate? I don’t know how easily black cherries stain things, but I know pomegranate stains fairly easily.
Buffers really have a wide range (Taken biotechnology) you could ferment the leaves in milk bacteria, over the leaves as a source of sugar. Adding for example 5 g citric acid and 5 g sodium citrate to 250-300 ml of hot water may protect the pigments from degrading. If you can afford it look into buffers on ebay or a supplier.
Ooooh I really love the idea of nailing this portion of it chemistry wise. Then one can really rule out the cow/ loophole it
YAY!!! Nada is back! Hmmm...I'm definitely going to have to experiment with mango leaves next time I'm at my west African home where I have a mango tree in my yard.
North America/ Africa pretty cool that we have that same link
By the way, you've inspired me to make lots more lake pigments and it has frankly gotten out of control. If you have access to Facebook or Etsy, look up TexasWildColor and you'll find how far I've gone. Thanks for all your early videos. I just keep making more and more lake pigments and bunches of watercolor paints. One of these days I'll try mixing some of my pigments with linseed oil to make oil paints too...
Blessings as you return to Canada. Hope you can find some things there to experiment with. I lived north of Quebec City for a while back in the early 2000s.
If I were up there now, I'd likely experiment with the wild blueberries and other berries.
Glad to see you back on RUclips!
Hey Marc! sorry i thought i already replied oops!
Been loving seeing your pigments, they are really great! This summer im def plundering quebecs natural dyes lol!
im glad youre back!!
Why don't you try vermilion at the end to it for indian yellow instead of turmeric. For more in-depth you can message me
First, thank you very much for this great research. I was able to make a lake pigment with your recipie, I changed a few steps and added a few things. Now i have a vibrant yellow rock. please contact me so I can share the process and some photos of the result. Best Regards!
omg I would love to know what you used
Did you ever try to just do a straight lake pigment from mango leaves or mango fruit juice? You could at least do mango fruit up there in Canada I'm thinking. Just wondering if doing a lake pigment and experimenting with PH...different quantities of alum and washing soda might yield something.
Ya I could def do mango juice, its a good idea!
I am new to dyeing and found your video extremely informative. Thank you.
Aw thanks so much! Comments like these really motivate me to make more (theres not much money in this)
Where is part 2?
do you have social media??
Hey! I was wondering....when you grind your pigments with a coffee grinder, did it grind them down fine enough to make a smooth paint? Or do you put the pigment back through the coffee grinder again to get it even finer??
Hey sorry this is super late! I think I just grind it once but now that I look back I cringe at how lazy that was. One can get really deep into the milling/ grinding part and make something commercial level at home just have to do a lot of research and be mathematical about size.
It looks pretty similar to an earth pigment I made. You're always moving, haha, crazy life. Hope all is well.
I know it is actually crazy, im constantly packing and unpacking my "studio" and barely getting any work done lol
Which earth pigment?
I don't know the name, I went to a multicolor mountain and get red, brown and yellow.
hi nada i just entered your channel for the first time i was looking for Egyptian channels on reddit there was subreddit that mentioned your channel. im a computer science senior student i never been a fan of any kind of art and im not proud of that but sow this video and really touched something beautiful in it i saw your timeline and you don't post often hope to see more of you. and also please link in rply any account of you on any social media platform hope to see other aspects of your life if that doesn't invade your privacy :'D
Wow what a lovely comment, im honored to have been a bridge for you into the art world lmao - its a pretty chill world. Really glad you enjoy the content - I am indeed horrible at posting regularly but thats because im low key a hermit and I hate social media in general. Seeing comments from people like you though who find value in what I make definitely puts a fire under my ass to make more and to make it better! So thank you :) my only other social media is Instagram (@nadamakes) I really dont post often there but I do post a lot of stories!
Can you make pigment from charcoal? That would be really cool to see.
Well done! Would love to see you actually create oil paint from your Indian Yellow to see if it performs as historically reported. So glad to see you debunking the "animal abuse" myth STILL out there!!!
Thank you! I would really like to try this one again, more than any other pigment I've made.
As a hobbyist oils painter with an interest in historic pigments, I've seen the resurgence of vermilion and lead white return to use. I've also seen someone on YT who collects old paints sets with obsolete pigments, including genuine emerald green and mummy brown. He actually experimented with replicating mummy brown from mummified fish. I love how you took the Indian Yellow myth head on!
I missed your videos so much
Im so sorry for disappearing! Comments like yours forced me to finally get off my ass and start making more lol so thanks
@@NadaMakes1 thank you for answering! Im sending a lot of love from Israel ♥
I’m doing some silica and soot paints based on what I learn here
Great work! I will be obtaining genuine Indian Yellow soon
I really loved this video
Yay im happy you liked it :)
Maybe you should check Ebay for chemicals to ferment the leaves. Maybe you could try a buffer Like sodium acetate + Acetic acid to digest the Mango leaves? Yeast or bacteria can help.
ooo fantastic idea, thanks!
Nada, you are a badass !!
You flatter me too much :') that is my favourite compliment though so thank you
@@NadaMakes1 you are welcome, I'm reading The Practical Treatise on Painting in Oil-Colours. It explains where oil paints pigments came from, it is not an easy process at all!
This was awesome, thanks
Very interesting video. Have you done part 2? Are you in the business of making dyes or is it a hobby? Thanks
Good research! We've been experimenting with natural colour, with effective results. However, we have not been able to replicate environment of cow's bladder, etc. so 'Indian Yellow' remains something of a mystery.
Yep a really beautifull yello ... the indian red is one of my favorite earth colors
Hey nada you should look up a video by the name of the search for forgotten colors and art of making natural dyes it might give a new idea on how to make dyes and pigments ☺
why put calcium?
Mostly because I couldnt get magnesium by itself!
I tried to do it, but I didn't absorb the color.
Omg is that a portal reference... either way I laughed quite hard.
Nada where are you?
You havent posted in 10 months.
This lit the fire under my butt to finally do that! thanks!
@@NadaMakes1 YAY!!!!!
Amazing...
That orange color is like Indian orange. 9:02
I think it is illegal to send leaves
PLEASE, PLEASE, please try to make Indian Yellow again! 🥺
Ooh where in Canada are you?
Montreal!
@@NadaMakes1 That's so cool, I'm in Toronto! What brings you to Montreal, of I may ask?
@@selahpaintco I used to live here for a while then left and came back :) its a pretty sweet city
I live in india, I can send as many mango leaves as you want! Hmu
Thanks for your trial...😍😍
Maybe try adding a little sulfur in the indian yellow water. Just a sulfur atom in a hood smelling molecule can make it smell like vomit.
I know how hard it is to make videos but if your in trouble or something else and how sad it is to make something that you put a lot of time in and it still doesn't work . but we will always be there for your return (plz don't be freasured to make a video ) that's all from me hopeing to see you in a another vid
You have no idea how much I needed to hear that! I think maybe the next video I should make should be about why I haven't been making these pigments. A lot of it does come from fear of failure (something ive been exploring and confronting in my time off) and how watching the natural pigments fade reminded me of atrophy/ impermanence and other things that at the time (I still kinda do) find terrifying. Thank you so much your words are valuable to me!
@@NadaMakes1 I really hope that you can find help. I can see that you are in a lot of pain but don't never give up . I hope one day that you find true happiness . No, I know you will true happiness . Can't wait for the next video.thank you for all the nice compliment. I also have a chanel (ohhsorry1010 . i know it's a wired name.)and i just can't think of what to upload. If I want do to some thing then I don't have the things I need and many more but this reply is getting long. Thank you again and I hope that we can be better RUclipsr .
WoooooW😘🥰😎🤩👏🙏
While the chemical building blocks are present in the Mango leaves, the actual 'Indian Yellow' was created by the Cow's liver. And I'm afraid this biochemical process is far too complex to be easily reproducible. Also, using cows this way was outlawed in India already 1876 (? IIRC). The often quoted 1908 date seems like a misunderstanding, but could have something to do with when the law started to be enforced in practice on the production of Indian Yellow.
There is a vast array of much better yellow pigments available today, so nobody is really interested in synthesizing this any longer. You'll find some of these much better pigments in artist paints labeled as "Indian Yellow".
You could have instead used a goat which readily feeds on mango leaves
I'm from India I can send u.
kisi ke pass indian yellow hai kya?????
You put wayyyyyyyyy toooo much tumeric wtf are you doing just a pinch barely
I am the first one to like and comment
Chup kar pagal 🤬🤬🤬🤬
Sorry? I feel like ive done something wrong but I dont know what