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I think DJI would be a more realistic acquisition, they even have similar branding and with the RONIN4D which actually pushes boundries, it seems similar to Apple's model to innovation
That's an interesting thought! The one issue I would say is that DJI is much larger than RED or BMD. They were an estimated $4.8 billion company in 2020. And while Apple has actually been rumored into looking at them, I think the asking price is a lot higher. But with what we saw with Tiktok and the U.S. trying to buy these chinese companies, who knows. It might make sense for DJI down the road. Interesting speculation though
And DJI is a Chinese company, I’m pretty sure that would cause some political conflict with Apple being based in the US. (Considering the current situation ofc)
Programmers: There are all these codes out there. I'll make one that is better than all those and everyone will switch to it. Also religious founders say this.
Great video, as always. Here are a few things I want to had to further this conversation. 1/ You already know, and a lot of us already know, that A LOT of camera companies are using Sony sensors : Fujifilm, Z-Cam, Kinefinity, Blackmagic Design (for the Pocket line), Panasonic (S-series, GH series, EVA1, maybe a few broadcast and/or Varicam products ?), Leica and so on. Actually, the "Full Frame" 6K Sony Semicon IMX410 sensor can be found in the Sony FX9, the Panasonic S1H/BS1H, the Kinefinity Mavo LF/Mavo LF Mark 2/Mavo Edge 6K, the Z-Cam E2-F6/F6Pro just to point a few. (which, by the way, shows that the sensor is NOT the only part of the digital imaging formula since all these cameras have different DR and rolling shutter performance... Yeah I know it's obvious, but still^^) 2/ Kinefinity already makes "Apple Cameras" since their current line is exclusively using ProRes (and all the variants... Ok they announced an uncompress CDNG option coming this year or whatever), they are even making a custom variant of ProRes 444 ("HE" for High Efficiency : still 12 bits 4:4:4 RGB signal BUT with a different compression that makes the files 75% the size of a ProRes 4:2:2 HQ at the same resolution and framerate... MY PERSONAL guess is that it's comparable to HEVC VS H264... You know since ProRes [and DNxHR] are essentially developped from MPEG4/H264 standards) and last but certainly not least, one of the FPGA arrays inside those cameras is the same you can find on the Apple ProRes Afterburner Card (or a copy, but same general idea). Adding all of that, IF Apple were to buy a camera company, it could be them too. It would target another market than RED, but it would certainly be beneficial for Kinefinity (which should get its Netflix certification this year) 3/ The current Z-Cam line of cameras (excluding the current/upcoming "pro" version of the F6), is using off the shelves Huawei PCBs that make for OEM servers running en ARM chips, and you guessed it, smartphones and tablets (and TVs). This can be an indication of how Apple could make a camera of their own "from scratch" : Sony sensor, iPhones/iPads/iWhatever PCBs with custom software and voilà ! I don't see it coming anytime soon, but hey we never know. 4/ Could they buy AJA and bring a Cion-like product back to life ? (I have no clue about the value of the company) 5/same question but Panasonic ? We know the japanese brand stopped their Varicam a.k.a cinema endevors BUT what if Apple come to the rescue ? Everything above for the pleasure of the nerdy conversation. The truth is : I don't see Apple going in the cinema camera business, and IF they did, they would just buy someone. Simpler.
I think Apple is Busy with developing their elektric car. So ive Apple ist in the automotive Industrie, why Not also invest in cameras? I think Apple a New Camera Systems wont stand out like an engineering marvel anymore. Should the buy the dr dre beats of cameras, ah the iPhone? Sony is still best placed in the Marketi for cameras, Apple World be most likely intrested in. A classic cinema camera is just a nightmare for Apples focus on simplicity, ease of use... blaaa. Red offering Consits of complicated cameras, aimed a Produktions that can work around it. What could the gain? The Apple Brand ist Not made for Tools. And a cinema camera is not that prestigious anymore. But lets See, i guess if Apple Watts to develope a camera, they could just Team up with fairchild or an other American Company. But is there an Apple product out there, that cant just simply Male use of on your own, as a Single Operator?
The S1R, EVA1 and Varicam are certainly not Sony sensors, they were made by Panasonic itself and sometimes their sensors used in Leica products as well as in a KF camera (the S1R one).
@@cameramaker You're right about the S1R, my bad. The S1H uses the IMX410 by Sony Semicon, as well as the S1 and S5, not the S1R (uses a Tower Semi sensor, a company that bought Panasonic's semiconductors manufcaturing assets, which probably made Varicam sensors... As for EVA1, I'm pretty sure I saw it listed somewhere on a list of Sony Semicon chips but I'm willing to accept being wrong... The real point is : too bad Panasonic stopped its Varicam line :/)
@@Bast6 they are both really a Panasonic sensor, having a panny part number and a panasonic datasheet. The semiconductor division was sold off later to Nuvoton, which has advertised the parts but I never got any helpful support from them. I do have a sample of each though from a distributor of Panasonic.
When you asked, But which company would make sense for Apple to acquire? I immediately thought RED. It’s hands down the most logical acquisition among camera companies. In fact, it makes so much sense, it makes one wonder why there hasn’t been an acquisition proposal from Apple yet
I think the whole "apple-fy" concern that you mention is my biggest concern as well. It's concerning to have a company with Apple's focus take over a cinema camera company. Now that being said, if they made their own, I'd be intrigued. I really like their operating systems and would be interesting to see how well the camera could integrate with their phones and computers.
I think there's also a third option that Apple could pursue, and that is a camera-fied iPhone. Repackage an iPhone and it's existing camera technology into something with tripod mounts, microphone inputs, a removable battery, and removable storage. Move the camera to the middle of the body instead of one of the corners. Not a full-blown Cinema camera, but definitely something much more usable for small independent filmmakers then just a stock iPhone. Of course, I don't see them actually having any incentive to really do that, but it would be much more possible.
Imagine though buying RED and implementing that tech into an iPhone? And also getting the patents for compressed RAW. They could make a lot of money on that
I have this theory that Apple TV+ is partially their way of doing R&D into the content creation industry. What better way to understand the needs of creators then to have them on payroll? They are literally making their own kitchen and hiring the chief to understand how the sauce is made. And the best part? Outward, to the public, it doesn’t even raise a flag. We just think “oh apple decided to dump billions of dollars into a service cause streaming is cool”. Nah, there’s a long game there.
I have this ongoing prediction that Apple will buy Blackmagic Design and when they showed Resolve running on the iPad pro it only fueld my speculation. BMD has this ecosystem that makes me think of apple and the way they are hardware based and almost give away the software like apple OS.
@@jessejayphotography yeah a few years back when I moved into Resolve I realized just how much more advanced and professional it is compared to FCP. the only thing I missed was being able to scroll timeline with the trackpad. but color page destroys FCPX, as well as Fusion over Motion
In the high end cinema world I imagine Sony and Arri will be all that’s left after this decade ends. My guess is Sony will be on top as the go to for most people, and as their CineAlta line expands to fill the gap in the $10,000-$30,000 range where RED currently has a stronghold, I think Sony will become the cinema camera of choice for most larger and mid size productions going forward.
@@WestonNey Yeah I can see that, especially with so many people in the Sony pipeline, if someone has gotten up to the FX6/FX9 and then needs something more for a production then the Venice is a no brainer.
Just tell us your a Sony fan boy. Personally, I think the industry is going to go the opposite direction. Once red loses the patent, there won't be any artificial scarcity and technology anymore. We're seeing black magic release cameras that shoot raw for k for under $1,000 now. Now, of course they're not the most well built obviously, but that technology is now accessible to more filmmakers than ever. Cameras are becoming a commodity, very fast, very cheap, very powerful. Will probably end up seeing a lot of small players come into the mix. Well, companies like Sony, Canon, Nikon will all be hurting because they can no longer artificially inflate prices.
@@TRIPSTTR not a Sony fanboy, I’m basing this on the fact that more and more big directors are choosing Sony Venice for their multi million dollar productions. Sony is a more robust company and can afford to do more R&D. They also make their own sensors. I personally own and shoot on a RED, but the Sony cinema cameras are tempting with their low light performance.
Considering Blackmagic has DaVinci Resolve as a competitive NLE to Apple's Final Cut Pro I'd say that unless Apple gets rid of Final Cut completely the likelihood of them acquiring Blackmagic is less likely. But Apple acquiring BMD would be cool for money R&D into the Blackmagic Cameras to make them even better. But I think this acquisition is the least likely. I think RED is the most apt and astute acquisition. However, I would hope that Apple gets rid of some of the RED culture that exists in the company. Never have been a fan of that, especially with the way RED gets their patents and markets their cameras. Plus, I'd hope Apple would maybe finally get it so RED Cameras finally don't just randomly need to be rebooted. And, even fix the boot up time. But ARRI cameras are used a lot on the AppleTV+ series. So, maybe Arri is the best acquisition move, but at that point Arri cameras are not the most consumer friendly price wise. So, it doesn't really make sense for Apple at all since the market is very small for Arri cameras outside of the film industry productions and the commercial world. So the Blackmagic does make the most sense due to the more entry level cameras. So I say Apple ends Final Cut, and goes all in on supporting DaVinci Resolve and seeds a lot of money into making the cameras from BMD even better.
Not sure if this would happen or not. I would just look at the display market, which Apple is currently pretty heavily invested in. They didn't target the absolute top end of the market by making $40,000 reference monitors for colorists. Instead, they opted for creating the Pro Display XDR for $5000. After which they improved the design and implemented a better version of the XDR in the current MacBook Pros for a fraction of the cost. I suppose you could look at how much Mac Pros cost to justify the possibility of a cinema camera. But I think those are different since they wouldn't take the same engineering and commitment that building an image sensor does. Most of the parts in a Mac Pro are basically the same as their MacBooks and iMacs, just with adjusted specs. It's certainly a possibility they could expand in this market. But unless there's a massive image quality or margin benefit to them making sensors over buying them from Sony I don't think they would make a cinema camera. They're such a focused company and it doesn't seem like something they would do unless it would provide a large enough benefit to most of their products and/or sell huge volumes like AirPods. And even then, it feels more in character that they would make a $5000-$10000 camera instead and compete in the same market Black Magic is in. At some point it certainly feels like it might make sense though. Year over year the camera is basically the main thing they seem to advertise for new iPhones.
@@Shuttterbugg It’s not to short change them, but a lot of their lead is mostly due to them having extremely close ties to TSMC and having access to their new nodes before anyone else. They’ve also been designing SoCs for iPhones for 10 years now. It’s hard to say if it’s worth it for them to take a hit to iPhone sensor quality temporarily to build their own. But it’s possible they could take that risk on a different category like Apple Watch or their AR headset since there’s lack of competition.
I think apple and RED would play well together. Both companies are entirely proprietary, charging sky-high prices for their tools. The idea of Apple buying BlackMagic is terrifying.
If they made CFR (constant frame rate) an option in the default camera app I’d be more interested. Their current VFR compression is a bit annoying especially when doing amateur slow-mo and not having exactly 240.000 FPS.
If apple were to purchase BMD, it would definitely be interesting to see what happens with Final Cut/Resolve. I'd imagine they would discontinue Final Cut and put all of their money into Davinci? Possibly ProRes RAW support in Davinci as well.
@@wakkowarner8810 They would not, they will. They did it with Logic. It was originaly for Windows and Mac. But than Apple bought Emagic (who made Logic) and killed directly the Windows version. If Apple would buy BMD, they will kill the Linux and Windows versions (which sucks, because there is not a lot of cutting software for Linux)
@@FoxMccloud42 I don’t think the Linux version could ever be killed because a lot of movie studios that use Resolve as part of their workflow need the Linux version because they use Linux on every computer in their studio because Linux is much more stable than Windows or Mac.
@@wakkowarner8810 For the movie studios it would be realy bad. But in Apples postion it would be even better to kill the Linux and Windows Versions. The studios have a lot of time and money commited to davinci resolve, so they only have two options: Buy Apple computer or to switch to another software. And most will go the route of buying Apple computer because if they would switch to another software, they would spend a lot more time and money in the end (because they would need to learn and train to an completely different software and also time=money).
Apple buying BMD would be the worse outcome imo just simply due to them having the ability to cut off windows/linux support and possibly going a subscription route for resolve instead of one time buy. It'd be nice if they didnt do that and simply bought them out and let them do their own thing with no say other than to help them, but i just dont believe that would be something they would do.
I dont think that would happen, with the subscription. apples been pretty solid about selling their software outright. I have no idea what they were thinking when they used that approach with their iPad version of FCPX and Logic. I was actually shocked.
@@flipnap2112 What they did with the iPad is the exact reason why I worry. Tbf youre correct about them selling their software outright, but with how the industry has been moving to software as a service, it really makes you assume the worst. Just gotta keep hope that BMD sticks to their guns if that future ever comes.
Honestly with locked down ecosystems already being pretty common in the cinema camera space already, having a company dedicated to seamless integration and long lasting reliability and support it would be cool to at least see someone like apple in the space. A lot of RUclipsrs swear by Final Cut and regardless of my problems with Apple they’re way better than adobe when it comes to consumer practices. I want them to throw their hat in the ring for at least a few years because even if it isn’t he a long term success it would kick a lot of these companies in the ass and improve the industry as a whole, and it could help evolve phone cameras which have been fairly stagnant for a few years.
0:08 lol I didn't know the Red logo's are just sticky taped to the cameras XD. I've always been a bit of a perfectionist regarding stuff like that, somehow not knowing this I would feel fine but knowing this if I owned that camera it would bug me that it's just held on there by glue, that I could just easily pry it off. (IDK why this feeling does not extend to screws, when something is bolted down i feel it is secure)
I just want the latest A series processor in my camera, please. The anemic and untapped potential of professional camera processors is continually frustrating.
@@FrameVoyager Especially from Sony, given their experience in the smartphone industry. Sell us an a1ii or new Venice camera advertising that it has "Dual Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 Processors" in it and run QNX or AOSP on it. 👌🏻 (or iOS, if you please Apple)
Never. gonna. happen. A cinema camera is even more rarified than a "Pro" computer (or their entire Final Cut Studio suite of apps they killed off a decade ago as well) Apple has demonstrated over the last decade that they do NOT care about the high end market. It's about upscale consumer products where people pay a premium for phones, tablets, laptops, etc that they are convinced are better than "what everyone else uses" ... even if Apple is behind "what everyone else uses" to include technologies like, multiple cameras, waterproof phones, USBc, wireless charging, finger-swype typing, etc. etc, oh, and the ability to expand storage space... uh wait, they still haven't added that, and removed from all their computers. so, never mind.
Oh wow I had totally forgotten about the Quicktake 100. I remember there was a Quicktake 150 too... The minds ability to remember obsolete information irrelevant to your life from half a lifetime ago is insane...
Blackmagic is far too hardware heavy. RED is realistic, could see it being a similar move to the Beats acquisition where there’s still autonomy of the Beats brand but shared tech. As a RED user, I could see an acquisition making sense.
Let's not forget that Apple's Final Cut Pro X hasn't been accepted by Hollywood and isn't used by professionals outside of RUclips. Buying Black Magic is maybe one way to solve this for them, as they'd become the new owners of DaVinci Resolve which has improved at such a fast rate it's totally possible to see it becoming an industry standard one day.
Apple could make iPhone with attach lens with the hardware + software magic, this could bring huge out come. But, they should at least make a Apple camera pro app for iPhone first!
I doubt RED would sell to Apple. They like being a smaller/niche company. Also, think of it this way... Arri is both camera and lighting. Blackmagic is editing hardware, cameras, etc. So yes, RED has a smaller revenue. However, their main focus is only on high end cameras. So it would be lower. That doesn't mean that the are not doing well. So you really can't go by the earnings here. It really apples to oranges here.
Totally agree! I was using the revenue more to make the point that RED really doesn't have as much expendable cash as some of these other companies do. Sure they only focus on one thing, though I think the Hydrogen One showed they wanted to be more than just a camera company, but how will they hold up in the future against something like Sony who has all the money in the world? I just wonder when they lose those patents... will they really have enough to keep their customers and bring in new filmmakers. They totally could! I just think having more resources from a larger company would help them evolve
The idea of buying both BMD and RED does make sense more in a business stand point of view than on a development cycle for a camera, especially if you consider that neither of them have proprietary tech apart from their codecs and some design choices over their sensors. A deal with BMD would mostly come from their broadcast and NLE applications than the cameras themselves, and a deal with RED could solve possible RAW recording patent conflicting issues between the REDCODE and their proprietary ProRes RAW. In either case, the camera development would be more of a bonus than a primary objective. However, there's one thing to take into consideration which is: Apple doesn't need to develop a camera from scratch. They already have the codec for it, and they have a established business partnership with Sony, a company that develops imaging sensors. It would be more a matter of developing an UI and design the camera itself in a way that would work seamslessly - and they even could strike a deal in order to use their E-mount into their cameras with Sony's full support, which would go hand in hand with the idea of "strenghten" their ecosystem before Canon RF gains momentum in the market. Considering this, Sony might've even be fully onboard with some sort of "rebranding" or codevelopment of a camera - let's not forget that Sony does have options for all type of budgets, from small content creators to big budget Hollywood productions. Let's not forget that the camera war is half the battle, and without lenses support, every camera is doomed to fail. Apple knows this, and in the current state of the camera market, the E-mount - being an established mirrorless mount with tons of support from 3rd party manufacturers - makes a ton of sense.
Tried hello fresh. It's most definitely cheaper and easier to just get your own veggies and do you own cooking without their mini boxes with a few bits of food that barely feeds a person, at a premium.
an apple partnership with BMD would be very interesting. the same way Facebook partnered with Blender. Apple could provide money for R&D and other stuff. funny cuz my two favorite operating systems is MacOS and BM system on pocket cams.
I always though that Apple could just buy RED. Wich I don't konw if it would be a great a on sad move for us cinematographers ahah. But I'm curious to see what Apple would really buy : patent for red raw yeah and then ? I don't know how the internals of Red works, do they outsource a lof of things or not ? Apple buying blackmagic would never happen until Grant last breaths. He's too much of a Robin Hood for Apple, he wouldn't let Apple buy them.
They do their own manufacturing supposedly... I don't think they make their own sensors but who knows. But buying RED comes with a ton of benefits. And yeahhh, them buying BMD doesn't make a ton of sense but honestly more so than any other company I could think of. Mostly because of Davinci Resolve and BMD's close ties with APPLE. That from a software side of things could make a ton of sense.
@@FrameVoyager Sensor weise only Sony does it right ? I mean : Does Red do its own design of camera body ?, Does RED do their on engeneering (thermal management, computing, color science). Do they developp / code their own software ? I don't know how much of Red get its hands dirty.
I would say Nikon, as not only do they have a solid line of consumer facing cameras, they're encroaching on professional videography these days as well with the Z9, but mostly due to Nikon's EUV lithography steppers that are the only potential competitors to ASML steppers. Eventually I see Apple needing to develop their own fabs as they face an industry being monopolized by TSMC, and having their own stepper equipment would be a good step.
😅😅😅 haha probably true! Had to film this one at the last second before I flew out of town too! I've actually used them before we got sponsored by them. Not bad options!
Black Magic it is rumoured will adopt the Leica "L Mount" lenses endorsed by Panasonic, and Sigma at this time. That would allow Apple to develop ther camera body sourcing a full frame sensor from someone . The Apple would do well to develop the camera aimed at high end U Tube photography ,,(they need time code (master and slave selectable, XLR mic inputs with DC for condensor mics and a medi baocx that can accept several cameras at once that their Mac can store the materil facilitating editing).
My guess is that it's simply not worth it for Apple to buy a camera company. They effectively serve everyone in that market through a software back end. Buying something like RED would potentially antagonise other companies that rely on ProRes and Apple's software (and compute hardware) toolchain. So the $ has to make sense for them to *buy* a camera company, and I don't think the extra $ they earned would be worthwhile in potentially antagonising the other camera companies.
There's a few things that make me think that Apple wouldn't be able to make a cinema camera. A lot of big studios, Pixar, ILM, WETA and more has very specific workflows and those 3 workflows are built around big Linux workstations and render farms. Second is Ingestion platforms and add-ons, if studios had to throw away microphones, screens, mounts and more because Apple refuses to use the open standard(like they do with phones and everything else) and they use ingestion platforms that sends the data to big mainframes that aren't built around Apple ecosystem. If Apple do a camera like they do with iPhone where its full of proprietary hardware and software
I dont think Apple would make a camera ,all apple products are based on clever design to draw customers I dont think an artist would say." Color is not so great but it looks flashy"
Good video but I must point out that Blackmagic's core business aren't cameras, but the various capture\playback\switching\converting video boxes they make, which are used all over the world. Hell, even DaVinci Resolve isn't their core business, just another excuse to sell their hardware: do you need a way to connect a high-grade 4K HDR monitor to your DaVinci grading suite? What a coincidence! Blackmagic also makes a in\out converter that happens to work PERFECTLY with DaVinci! That's why their yearly gross is higher than Arri's - you don't get those figures by selling the likes of the URSA Mini or the Pocket. To Blackmagic, cameras are more of a side venture and they don't spend that much on R&D on it (that's why they are so cheap). And I don't blame them (although I steer clear of their cameras as much as I can), since, as this channel has eloquently pointed out several times, making serious cinema cameras is very high-risk. Blackmagic actually managed to carve a nice niche for themselves, all things considered.
Exactly 😉 it depends on where they want to land. BMDs business is not cinema cameras but software and hardware. This would help apple not only get midtier cinema cameras but an ecosystem they can integrate into their own systems. I probably should have been clearer about this in the video but, the monetary value is not really in the cinema camera market but what it would do for marketing and integration in existing apple tech. I mean think about davinci resolve being sold with a MacBook pro and replacing their final cut pro which doesn't seem to be keeping up. To me it's about more what tech and clout apple could use for their existing products to push more and more to creatives. ( I say all of this not being an apple fan at all and not wanting this to happen)
@@FrameVoyager I see where you're coming from and it does make sense, but I don't think Apple and BM would make good bedfellows. For starters, right now they seem to be slightly at odds with each other over ProRes RAW, as BM still hasn't given support to in DaVinci - which is probably the single think preventing ProRes RAW from becoming a leading format (much more than the infamous RED patent). And I think BM is not adding PR RAW because they do sell their own external BRAW recorders and seem pretty serious about keeping their grip on that particular sector. But, in broader terms, I don't think Apple is that interested in the media industry save for selling the hardware post-production people need for editing, VFX and Color Grading: as long as people run DaVinci on their MacPros, they are happy. Things might change if people will switch en masse to other hardware brands, but, right now, most post-houses I know still use Apple workstations (some have custom-made Linux machines, but their require a deeper knowledge of their hardware from the user, while Apple stuff is still the most reliable off-the-shelf stuff you can get if you're working with video files).
Apple should create their own cameras. Not a cinema camera, not a stills camera, not a camera with the computing power and interface of an iPhone. But a camera that does it all. One camera for everyone. A 48MP, 4K120 12Bit Raw, Emount (to Steal Sony's Market ), Lidar detect follow focus, detachable sensor from body Camera. I believe it's very possible
Blackmagic would be a better buy than RED buy why not try and buy both?! Apple could consolidate around DaVinci Resolve (a program they are increasingly focused on in their keynotes), incorporate BRAW into ProRes brand, and I guess continue to sell cameras under RED brand with REDs sensor technology which is quite good compared to ARRI. Blackmagic has a large footprint in the smaller media houses outside of Hollywood with production and production equipment for live-streaming.
I can't imagine Apple wanting a cinema camera. Apple's going the computational photography route, which seems both more powerful and the biggest market. Computational photography is computer-based, software-based photo technology - what Apple does - that has no upper limit in development. Apple is already in this business. And nearly every product Apple sells is a camera. It's essentially hardware/software to make cameras simulate other cameras. In the future, an iPhone will simulate an Arri. Or medium format. Computational photography is a more certain market than the cinema camera market. In-built stabilisation and being able to shoot under water are also advantages
I dont think so. The latest videos of an iphone 14 looks sometimes washed in instagram ,how it would look in a big monitor? No way computational photography will match arri
Apple doesn't have much of a history of going into specialized markets and selling items that only a business would buy. Even their mac pro / mac server lines have not been historically very successful. If Apple made a camera, it would need to be (1) affordable to consumers (2) small and convenient (3) differentiated from the phone but still w/ powerful compute. I can see it happening since they already have a lot of the fundamentals, but cinema camera? Nah.
But what they'd get with buying into either specialized market is key codec patents from RED or very large software and programs from BMD. Both of these would fuel their other product lines imo. Probably unlikely, but there still is a monetary value in it
@@FrameVoyager I can't see Apple buying Red or BMD for patents and then suffering through staying in the business of building niche hardware. Steve Jobs said in the past "what's most important is what we don't do." I don't think they want to get tied up in side hustles, and I'm not a patent attorney or anything, but I kinda think if Apple wants more camera patents, they have the cash to hire away some engineers and file some patents. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see any kind of camera from Apple, cinema or otherwise - I just don't see it worth it to them to get distracted when they need much larger markets to make a significant impact on their bottom line.
Blackmagic does make sense given their approach of we know better what you need., but red probably better guess considering that they have been irrelevant for some time and losing their popularity with raising alternatives such as blackmagic, zcam and dji
After so many replacements of my Airpods Max, which keep failing over and over again, I really hope they don‘t! Their computers and iPads are awesome though.
@@Teluric2 condensation. the anc went all crazy, the anc button died, the head detection went missing and then the whole unit died. happened way too often to be a coincidence
Why not both 🤷🏼♂️ Seriously I think BMD is more aligned with the Apple design philosophy and simplicity. Also neither is targeting the top end of the market. Surely a Mac Pro or Mac Studio is an expensive computer for a regular consumer but it's nowhere near of the most expensive COTS PCs that you can buy from Dell, Lenovo, or HP Enterprise. Not in specs nor in price. Just to throw some numbers as a ref, I think the retail prices of absolutely top notch workstations are somewhere between 400k and 500k USD.
Last week I Googled will Apple make a cinema camera Now you upload a video about apple making a cinema camera and/or purchasing RED/BMD Your channel gives me tons of motivation and inspiration! Keep going!
I try to think outside the box and move away from the nostalgia of the cinema that is increasingly approaching television. I think that with the arrival of the metaverse and the Ai the best bet would be the abandoned LYTRO. And the acquisition of BMD, which strangely has been flirting with Apple's architecture, would be very convenient.
0.0% chance Apple does this unless they become a conglomerate corporation like Sony in the future that does everything. Last year there was an open letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook accusing Apple of letting Final Cut Pro fall behind rival editing tools from a collection of video editors. What I am getting at is people are lucky Apple even has Final Cut Pro still let alone trying to get into some ultra niche space in cinema cameras.
Apple has disconnected more and more from its focus on professionals and bet on consumer products. Even the prosumer market and competing against Canon, Panasonic, Sony is likely not attractive for Apple. The only scenario I would love to see is a mirrorless professional camera like a Sony Alpha or Canon R running an OS like iOS or Android allowing Smartphone-like computational photography and state of the art connectivity. Samsung tried something like this in 2016 with the Galaxy NX but I think they were just too early to market. However, the overall camera market beyond Smartphone cameras is just too small for Apple to get into. Apple abadonned the professional market years ago and it is not likely that they reenter it any time soon. In 2002, Apple bought Shake to kill it off in 2009, Apple Color which for the most part ended up in FinalCut. All of apples product strategy targets primarily the consumer with some prosumer/professional offerings such as Prores and ProresRAW.
If Apple bought Blackmagic design could this be the end of DaVinici Resolve? or at least the free version we use for music videos, as it competes with Final Cut Pro.
i have long been waiting for apple to announce a dedicated full blown camera system. it does not have to be like traditional mirrorless or DSLR style, it have to be Apple style. Just a tiny iPhone camera produce such a breathtaking photo, i cant imagine what Apple can achieve with 1 inch sensor.
@@FrameVoyager word it happens 🤣I had to look it up I thought I missed some big news. In any case, fantastic video as ALWAYS. Truly some of the best in the game - keep it up! I think I’ve watched every video on this channel 😅
I love Apple... I love Blackmagic Design... I think Apple would improve on Blackmagic delivering product on time with out flaws BUT they would ruin the company by trying to make products for everyone... They can PARTNER on a product but if Apple purchased Blackmagic It would be a disaster for Blackmagic Designs and those of us who rely on them making product for a specialized market segment... SAME WAY THEY MESSED UP Final Cut Pro!
Why on earth would apple want to get into this business? You need to look at their sales and imagine how huge a business has to be for them to be interested in it.
I think I have seen the first advert of Apple like "the-following-movie-was-shot-only-on-the-latest-iphone" as part of the introduction campaign for the 5s. So...lets get started guys !
Also I don’t see them buying red. Almost everything they shoot in house is on a Sony Venice or fx9. Not that that means much in the world of business mergers and acquisitions but apple doesn’t seem to really like the red product…and also doesn’t seem to be interested at all in producing a camera outside of their iphone/pad/computers. The apple camera is in the same category as the apple car and apple television (not the Apple TV) as something people have speculated they would make for years that in reality apple has no intention or interest in making. They are mostly focused on wearable VR and augmented reality RD right now. Unless the camera ties into that it ain’t happening.
IF apple would make a kamera it would be totally klosed box, as in not skrews or anything, soldered memory kard, proprietary mount with soldered lens and ofkourse built in battery. Prices: With 512gb memory 4k 4:2:0 hevc only 2800 monnee With 1tb memory 4k 4:2:0 proress lt Only 4700 monnee With 2tb memory 4k 4:2:2 proress hq Only 12000 monnee
If apple would be allowed to buy more than one company, I think apple would go for RED & BM possibly DJI as well. For me if I was head at apple thats what I would do, and put all 3 teams together but keep the all 3 brands.
I %100 agree! I don't think apple would develop a camera from scratch this late in the game! To be honest, I'm surprised RED wasn't already bought by Apple at one point you could buy a RED Camera in the Apple Store, The Raven. Buying Red would give more power to iPhone Pro users as well because I'm certain new censors styles and Red Raw codecs would be made available. Also, Apple could expand Red's lineup to fill the gap! Right now they don't really have an entry-level camera, something Indie Filmmakers can make use of. Apple could bridge the gap by creating a hybrid camera made for Indie Filmmakers with Pro Level features. From a software standing apple can also work to improve the performance of editing with RED Raw! Since the process would now be end-to-end apple!
I think in the long run apple is best utilized to create standards across the industry like ProRes. Like you said producing the cameras isn’t a big return on investment and Apple probably produces waaay more cash by selling an iPhone every 2 years. For the cost of that iPhone I could buy a new apsc camera but people won’t do that because didn’t you see? The new iPhone has 48MP 🤓
Well that's why I think RED is a fascinating buy. Sure you get the cameras but more so you control the compressed RAW patents they own. That you can sell and market to make even more money on iPhones. It's an interesting idea though
@@FrameVoyager you’re right RED would be an obvious choice not only for those reasons but red isn’t a “key” player like Arri is. Apple would have big shoes to fill at Arri whereas they would easily be able to pick and choose what they want from RED without really disturbing the cinema industry
Codec standards should never be developed by a company like Apple. Their codecs are proprietary and there are issues creating ProRes files outside of Mac OS. Proper industry standards have long been developed and ProRes isn't one of them. There are many good technical reasons why ProRes should not be a standard. The sheer weight of Apple means their products often become defaults. Different thing.
@@digitalcity1 so because ProRes has issues outside macOS it shouldn’t be any kind of standard? Are you recording home movies in ProRes? I think anyone looking to use the codec would intentionally use the proper hardware with it and idk about proprietary I’ve seen multiple camera’s support ProRes. Plus nobody said every camera could only shoot it? Idk what you’re complaining about? :/
@@kcliffordphoto I'm talking post production and deliverables. There is no standard codec for cameras. Each manufacturer has their own proprietary codec - Sony, Red, Canon, Blackmagic etc. Yes some cameras shoot ProRes but it never can be a camera standard
the best option would be for apple to buy RED given the patents RED already has for compressed lossless capture making it impossible to build anything without violating them.
If Apple would like to buy something on cheap, they could go for Atomos - at least that is a prominent ProRes RAW implementer. Looking at the stock price, they managed to even fail before entering your hall of failed cine cams. I thought you got the recent sensor announcement from them, as that story turned out a way differently :)
Apple wants to empower content creators and camera Manufacturers more than start wars with them. Apple “should” get their shit together in hardware/OS for 3D, games, VFX, Architecture. This would include interoperating with AMD and Nvidia GPUs again, even if only as secondary processors. If Apple were to get involved it would be better for them to acquire Panavision.
I like Panavision! But they really only do lenses and even then it's more about the coating on the lenses. The camera they have now is basically a disguised RED camera haha. But for hardware yes! That's why I included Blackmagic Design, because that would be a perfect company to build that entire content creation base from with Davinci Resolve.
@@FrameVoyager That’s the point. If Apple makes enemies of all the camera companies we all lose. Being able to fund Panavision’s innovative projects and productizing a small number of their accessories would keep Apple good with ALL camera makers and ALL content creators while adding a wealth of knowledge and experience in cinema pre-production to post-production.
I dont think apple wants to buy a camera company because they want to create that conversation that apple iPhones are fully capable of shooting films with ease of access. The thing they'll lack from this is versatility in the equipment. idk for some reason I feel like apple is willing to die on that hill of innovational arrogance before buying out a camera company.
Which camera company do you think APPLE would buy?
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Digital Bolex for sure.
@@vipadventure iBolex?
I think DJI would be a more realistic acquisition, they even have similar branding and with the RONIN4D which actually pushes boundries, it seems similar to Apple's model to innovation
That's an interesting thought! The one issue I would say is that DJI is much larger than RED or BMD. They were an estimated $4.8 billion company in 2020. And while Apple has actually been rumored into looking at them, I think the asking price is a lot higher.
But with what we saw with Tiktok and the U.S. trying to buy these chinese companies, who knows. It might make sense for DJI down the road. Interesting speculation though
And DJI is a Chinese company, I’m pretty sure that would cause some political conflict with Apple being based in the US. (Considering the current situation ofc)
YEA. I LIKE THIS IDEA BETTER!!! LEAVE BLACKMAGIC DESIGNS ALONE PLEASE!!!!
I actually don’t think apple would want their name tied with pesky DJI drones… would be odd imo
as far as i know, dji and apple have a sort of partnership they sell dji products at apple stores.
It would probably be a Beats type situation, where they would keep the brand and its identity while using shared underlying tech.
Exactly! But RED would get a ton of R&D cash to help them expand their market a bit
"You don't just develop a codec for fun after all"
Programmers : lol
😅😅😅
Programmers: There are all these codes out there. I'll make one that is better than all those and everyone will switch to it.
Also religious founders say this.
Great video, as always.
Here are a few things I want to had to further this conversation.
1/ You already know, and a lot of us already know, that A LOT of camera companies are using Sony sensors : Fujifilm, Z-Cam, Kinefinity, Blackmagic Design (for the Pocket line), Panasonic (S-series, GH series, EVA1, maybe a few broadcast and/or Varicam products ?), Leica and so on. Actually, the "Full Frame" 6K Sony Semicon IMX410 sensor can be found in the Sony FX9, the Panasonic S1H/BS1H, the Kinefinity Mavo LF/Mavo LF Mark 2/Mavo Edge 6K, the Z-Cam E2-F6/F6Pro just to point a few. (which, by the way, shows that the sensor is NOT the only part of the digital imaging formula since all these cameras have different DR and rolling shutter performance... Yeah I know it's obvious, but still^^)
2/ Kinefinity already makes "Apple Cameras" since their current line is exclusively using ProRes (and all the variants... Ok they announced an uncompress CDNG option coming this year or whatever), they are even making a custom variant of ProRes 444 ("HE" for High Efficiency : still 12 bits 4:4:4 RGB signal BUT with a different compression that makes the files 75% the size of a ProRes 4:2:2 HQ at the same resolution and framerate... MY PERSONAL guess is that it's comparable to HEVC VS H264... You know since ProRes [and DNxHR] are essentially developped from MPEG4/H264 standards) and last but certainly not least, one of the FPGA arrays inside those cameras is the same you can find on the Apple ProRes Afterburner Card (or a copy, but same general idea).
Adding all of that, IF Apple were to buy a camera company, it could be them too. It would target another market than RED, but it would certainly be beneficial for Kinefinity (which should get its Netflix certification this year)
3/ The current Z-Cam line of cameras (excluding the current/upcoming "pro" version of the F6), is using off the shelves Huawei PCBs that make for OEM servers running en ARM chips, and you guessed it, smartphones and tablets (and TVs). This can be an indication of how Apple could make a camera of their own "from scratch" : Sony sensor, iPhones/iPads/iWhatever PCBs with custom software and voilà !
I don't see it coming anytime soon, but hey we never know.
4/ Could they buy AJA and bring a Cion-like product back to life ? (I have no clue about the value of the company)
5/same question but Panasonic ? We know the japanese brand stopped their Varicam a.k.a cinema endevors BUT what if Apple come to the rescue ?
Everything above for the pleasure of the nerdy conversation. The truth is : I don't see Apple going in the cinema camera business, and IF they did, they would just buy someone. Simpler.
you know , but 99% people think apple make sensors for iphone ;) also memory etc. apple only design products nothing else :/
I think Apple is Busy with developing their elektric car.
So ive Apple ist in the automotive Industrie, why Not also invest in cameras?
I think Apple a New Camera Systems wont stand out like an engineering marvel anymore.
Should the buy the dr dre beats of cameras, ah the iPhone?
Sony is still best placed in the Marketi for cameras, Apple World be most likely intrested in.
A classic cinema camera is just a nightmare for Apples focus on simplicity, ease of use... blaaa.
Red offering Consits of complicated cameras, aimed a Produktions that can work around it.
What could the gain?
The Apple Brand ist Not made for Tools. And a cinema camera is not that prestigious anymore.
But lets See, i guess if Apple Watts to develope a camera, they could just Team up with fairchild or an other American Company.
But is there an Apple product out there, that cant just simply Male use of on your own, as a Single Operator?
The S1R, EVA1 and Varicam are certainly not Sony sensors, they were made by Panasonic itself and sometimes their sensors used in Leica products as well as in a KF camera (the S1R one).
@@cameramaker You're right about the S1R, my bad. The S1H uses the IMX410 by Sony Semicon, as well as the S1 and S5, not the S1R (uses a Tower Semi sensor, a company that bought Panasonic's semiconductors manufcaturing assets, which probably made Varicam sensors... As for EVA1, I'm pretty sure I saw it listed somewhere on a list of Sony Semicon chips but I'm willing to accept being wrong... The real point is : too bad Panasonic stopped its Varicam line :/)
@@Bast6 they are both really a Panasonic sensor, having a panny part number and a panasonic datasheet. The semiconductor division was sold off later to Nuvoton, which has advertised the parts but I never got any helpful support from them. I do have a sample of each though from a distributor of Panasonic.
Very interesting take. Apple acquiring RED seems entirely plausible to me now.
plot-twist: nikon acquiring RED
@@Lukas_DaCruz Didn't see that one coming!
When you asked, But which company would make sense for Apple to acquire? I immediately thought RED. It’s hands down the most logical acquisition among camera companies. In fact, it makes so much sense, it makes one wonder why there hasn’t been an acquisition proposal from Apple yet
I think the whole "apple-fy" concern that you mention is my biggest concern as well. It's concerning to have a company with Apple's focus take over a cinema camera company. Now that being said, if they made their own, I'd be intrigued. I really like their operating systems and would be interesting to see how well the camera could integrate with their phones and computers.
Maybe they revive the old "Red Hydrogen" camera haha
I think there's also a third option that Apple could pursue, and that is a camera-fied iPhone. Repackage an iPhone and it's existing camera technology into something with tripod mounts, microphone inputs, a removable battery, and removable storage. Move the camera to the middle of the body instead of one of the corners. Not a full-blown Cinema camera, but definitely something much more usable for small independent filmmakers then just a stock iPhone.
Of course, I don't see them actually having any incentive to really do that, but it would be much more possible.
Imagine though buying RED and implementing that tech into an iPhone? And also getting the patents for compressed RAW. They could make a lot of money on that
@@FrameVoyager yay, ipad app only to control a RED box forthcoming?
Pros dont buy a camera because their bezels are pretty or make you look trendy, Leave that market for teenagers and instagram punks.
I have this theory that Apple TV+ is partially their way of doing R&D into the content creation industry. What better way to understand the needs of creators then to have them on payroll? They are literally making their own kitchen and hiring the chief to understand how the sauce is made. And the best part? Outward, to the public, it doesn’t even raise a flag. We just think “oh apple decided to dump billions of dollars into a service cause streaming is cool”. Nah, there’s a long game there.
😂😂😂 LOVE this take. Honestly, ngl, not a big apple fan but damn do they make some good shows
Well it seems RED was up for sale but Apple didn't want it at all. Nikon did instead.
Honestly, probably a better fit haha. RED fits something nikon doesn't have and RED gets more resources potentially
I have this ongoing prediction that Apple will buy Blackmagic Design and when they showed Resolve running on the iPad pro it only fueld my speculation. BMD has this ecosystem that makes me think of apple and the way they are hardware based and almost give away the software like apple OS.
except that would destroy final cut...
@@LanaaAmor haha true
@@heroaomedia Apple has really, really let FCP go. I think the writing is on the wall.
Give away software? Finalcut is 299$
@@jessejayphotography yeah a few years back when I moved into Resolve I realized just how much more advanced and professional it is compared to FCP. the only thing I missed was being able to scroll timeline with the trackpad. but color page destroys FCPX, as well as Fusion over Motion
In the high end cinema world I imagine Sony and Arri will be all that’s left after this decade ends. My guess is Sony will be on top as the go to for most people, and as their CineAlta line expands to fill the gap in the $10,000-$30,000 range where RED currently has a stronghold, I think Sony will become the cinema camera of choice for most larger and mid size productions going forward.
I'd imagine so... After RED loses that patent, you gotta wonder about their viability.
@@FrameVoyager yeah. The minute that patent is up, Arri and Sony will have their compressed raw codecs ready to go in their latest camera.
@@WestonNey Yeah I can see that, especially with so many people in the Sony pipeline, if someone has gotten up to the FX6/FX9 and then needs something more for a production then the Venice is a no brainer.
Just tell us your a Sony fan boy. Personally, I think the industry is going to go the opposite direction. Once red loses the patent, there won't be any artificial scarcity and technology anymore. We're seeing black magic release cameras that shoot raw for k for under $1,000 now. Now, of course they're not the most well built obviously, but that technology is now accessible to more filmmakers than ever. Cameras are becoming a commodity, very fast, very cheap, very powerful. Will probably end up seeing a lot of small players come into the mix. Well, companies like Sony, Canon, Nikon will all be hurting because they can no longer artificially inflate prices.
@@TRIPSTTR not a Sony fanboy, I’m basing this on the fact that more and more big directors are choosing Sony Venice for their multi million dollar productions. Sony is a more robust company and can afford to do more R&D. They also make their own sensors. I personally own and shoot on a RED, but the Sony cinema cameras are tempting with their low light performance.
honestly the main thing I care about is that Apple fixes that annoying ass flaring whenever shooting bright lights on iPhones lol
yeah thats a really REALLY weird thing that slipped through.
Considering Blackmagic has DaVinci Resolve as a competitive NLE to Apple's Final Cut Pro I'd say that unless Apple gets rid of Final Cut completely the likelihood of them acquiring Blackmagic is less likely. But Apple acquiring BMD would be cool for money R&D into the Blackmagic Cameras to make them even better. But I think this acquisition is the least likely.
I think RED is the most apt and astute acquisition. However, I would hope that Apple gets rid of some of the RED culture that exists in the company. Never have been a fan of that, especially with the way RED gets their patents and markets their cameras. Plus, I'd hope Apple would maybe finally get it so RED Cameras finally don't just randomly need to be rebooted. And, even fix the boot up time.
But ARRI cameras are used a lot on the AppleTV+ series. So, maybe Arri is the best acquisition move, but at that point Arri cameras are not the most consumer friendly price wise. So, it doesn't really make sense for Apple at all since the market is very small for Arri cameras outside of the film industry productions and the commercial world.
So the Blackmagic does make the most sense due to the more entry level cameras. So I say Apple ends Final Cut, and goes all in on supporting DaVinci Resolve and seeds a lot of money into making the cameras from BMD even better.
They would jack the price up because its....Apple.
God I'll cry if resolve becomes an apple subscription service
For real
Not sure if this would happen or not. I would just look at the display market, which Apple is currently pretty heavily invested in. They didn't target the absolute top end of the market by making $40,000 reference monitors for colorists. Instead, they opted for creating the Pro Display XDR for $5000. After which they improved the design and implemented a better version of the XDR in the current MacBook Pros for a fraction of the cost.
I suppose you could look at how much Mac Pros cost to justify the possibility of a cinema camera. But I think those are different since they wouldn't take the same engineering and commitment that building an image sensor does. Most of the parts in a Mac Pro are basically the same as their MacBooks and iMacs, just with adjusted specs.
It's certainly a possibility they could expand in this market. But unless there's a massive image quality or margin benefit to them making sensors over buying them from Sony I don't think they would make a cinema camera. They're such a focused company and it doesn't seem like something they would do unless it would provide a large enough benefit to most of their products and/or sell huge volumes like AirPods. And even then, it feels more in character that they would make a $5000-$10000 camera instead and compete in the same market Black Magic is in.
At some point it certainly feels like it might make sense though. Year over year the camera is basically the main thing they seem to advertise for new iPhones.
If they can make fhere own processor in house which is so powerful they can EASILY make a camera sensor in house
@@Shuttterbugg It’s not to short change them, but a lot of their lead is mostly due to them having extremely close ties to TSMC and having access to their new nodes before anyone else. They’ve also been designing SoCs for iPhones for 10 years now.
It’s hard to say if it’s worth it for them to take a hit to iPhone sensor quality temporarily to build their own. But it’s possible they could take that risk on a different category like Apple Watch or their AR headset since there’s lack of competition.
I think apple and RED would play well together. Both companies are entirely proprietary, charging sky-high prices for their tools. The idea of Apple buying BlackMagic is terrifying.
If they made CFR (constant frame rate) an option in the default camera app I’d be more interested.
Their current VFR compression is a bit annoying especially when doing amateur slow-mo and not having exactly 240.000 FPS.
If apple were to purchase BMD, it would definitely be interesting to see what happens with Final Cut/Resolve. I'd imagine they would discontinue Final Cut and put all of their money into Davinci? Possibly ProRes RAW support in Davinci as well.
They would make Resolve run on Mac only.
@@wakkowarner8810 They would not, they will. They did it with Logic. It was originaly for Windows and Mac. But than Apple bought Emagic (who made Logic) and killed directly the Windows version. If Apple would buy BMD, they will kill the Linux and Windows versions (which sucks, because there is not a lot of cutting software for Linux)
@@FoxMccloud42 I don’t think the Linux version could ever be killed because a lot of movie studios that use Resolve as part of their workflow need the Linux version because they use Linux on every computer in their studio because Linux is much more stable than Windows or Mac.
@@wakkowarner8810 For the movie studios it would be realy bad. But in Apples postion it would be even better to kill the Linux and Windows Versions. The studios have a lot of time and money commited to davinci resolve, so they only have two options: Buy Apple computer or to switch to another software. And most will go the route of buying Apple computer because if they would switch to another software, they would spend a lot more time and money in the end (because they would need to learn and train to an completely different software and also time=money).
Apple buying BMD would be the worse outcome imo just simply due to them having the ability to cut off windows/linux support and possibly going a subscription route for resolve instead of one time buy.
It'd be nice if they didnt do that and simply bought them out and let them do their own thing with no say other than to help them, but i just dont believe that would be something they would do.
I dont think that would happen, with the subscription. apples been pretty solid about selling their software outright. I have no idea what they were thinking when they used that approach with their iPad version of FCPX and Logic. I was actually shocked.
@@flipnap2112 What they did with the iPad is the exact reason why I worry. Tbf youre correct about them selling their software outright, but with how the industry has been moving to software as a service, it really makes you assume the worst. Just gotta keep hope that BMD sticks to their guns if that future ever comes.
Honestly with locked down ecosystems already being pretty common in the cinema camera space already, having a company dedicated to seamless integration and long lasting reliability and support it would be cool to at least see someone like apple in the space. A lot of RUclipsrs swear by Final Cut and regardless of my problems with Apple they’re way better than adobe when it comes to consumer practices. I want them to throw their hat in the ring for at least a few years because even if it isn’t he a long term success it would kick a lot of these companies in the ass and improve the industry as a whole, and it could help evolve phone cameras which have been fairly stagnant for a few years.
0:08 lol I didn't know the Red logo's are just sticky taped to the cameras XD. I've always been a bit of a perfectionist regarding stuff like that, somehow not knowing this I would feel fine but knowing this if I owned that camera it would bug me that it's just held on there by glue, that I could just easily pry it off.
(IDK why this feeling does not extend to screws, when something is bolted down i feel it is secure)
I just want the latest A series processor in my camera, please. The anemic and untapped potential of professional camera processors is continually frustrating.
Really is pretty annoying
@@FrameVoyager Especially from Sony, given their experience in the smartphone industry. Sell us an a1ii or new Venice camera advertising that it has "Dual Snapdragon 8 Gen 2 Processors" in it and run QNX or AOSP on it. 👌🏻 (or iOS, if you please Apple)
@@WesPerry hahaha for sure!
Never. gonna. happen.
A cinema camera is even more rarified than a "Pro" computer (or their entire Final Cut Studio suite of apps they killed off a decade ago as well)
Apple has demonstrated over the last decade that they do NOT care about the high end market.
It's about upscale consumer products where people pay a premium for phones, tablets, laptops, etc that they are convinced are better than "what everyone else uses" ... even if Apple is behind "what everyone else uses" to include technologies like, multiple cameras, waterproof phones, USBc, wireless charging, finger-swype typing, etc. etc, oh, and the ability to expand storage space... uh wait, they still haven't added that, and removed from all their computers. so, never mind.
Totally agree! I doubt they build one, but buying RED makes a lot of financial sense imo.
P.S. I'm an android and windows guy so 😅
Oh wow I had totally forgotten about the Quicktake 100.
I remember there was a Quicktake 150 too...
The minds ability to remember obsolete information irrelevant to your life from half a lifetime ago is insane...
Blackmagic is far too hardware heavy. RED is realistic, could see it being a similar move to the Beats acquisition where there’s still autonomy of the Beats brand but shared tech. As a RED user, I could see an acquisition making sense.
"When the camera man forgot to bring his camera to the shoot"
😅😅😅
Let's not forget that Apple's Final Cut Pro X hasn't been accepted by Hollywood and isn't used by professionals outside of RUclips. Buying Black Magic is maybe one way to solve this for them, as they'd become the new owners of DaVinci Resolve which has improved at such a fast rate it's totally possible to see it becoming an industry standard one day.
Apple cinema camera: Are you sure you want to save your last clip? Please connect to WiFi first before saving.
No it's a "enter your apple id password to save this video" 😂
@@FrameVoyager lol 😂
@@FrameVoyager 2FA: we’ve sent a security pin to your A cam. Please enter it on your B cam to change frame rates.
@@bryansheehy2000 😂😂😂
Apple could make iPhone with attach lens with the hardware + software magic, this could bring huge out come.
But, they should at least make a Apple camera pro app for iPhone first!
😂😂😂
I doubt RED would sell to Apple. They like being a smaller/niche company. Also, think of it this way... Arri is both camera and lighting. Blackmagic is editing hardware, cameras, etc. So yes, RED has a smaller revenue. However, their main focus is only on high end cameras. So it would be lower. That doesn't mean that the are not doing well. So you really can't go by the earnings here. It really apples to oranges here.
Totally agree! I was using the revenue more to make the point that RED really doesn't have as much expendable cash as some of these other companies do. Sure they only focus on one thing, though I think the Hydrogen One showed they wanted to be more than just a camera company, but how will they hold up in the future against something like Sony who has all the money in the world? I just wonder when they lose those patents... will they really have enough to keep their customers and bring in new filmmakers. They totally could! I just think having more resources from a larger company would help them evolve
The idea of buying both BMD and RED does make sense more in a business stand point of view than on a development cycle for a camera, especially if you consider that neither of them have proprietary tech apart from their codecs and some design choices over their sensors. A deal with BMD would mostly come from their broadcast and NLE applications than the cameras themselves, and a deal with RED could solve possible RAW recording patent conflicting issues between the REDCODE and their proprietary ProRes RAW. In either case, the camera development would be more of a bonus than a primary objective.
However, there's one thing to take into consideration which is: Apple doesn't need to develop a camera from scratch. They already have the codec for it, and they have a established business partnership with Sony, a company that develops imaging sensors. It would be more a matter of developing an UI and design the camera itself in a way that would work seamslessly - and they even could strike a deal in order to use their E-mount into their cameras with Sony's full support, which would go hand in hand with the idea of "strenghten" their ecosystem before Canon RF gains momentum in the market. Considering this, Sony might've even be fully onboard with some sort of "rebranding" or codevelopment of a camera - let's not forget that Sony does have options for all type of budgets, from small content creators to big budget Hollywood productions.
Let's not forget that the camera war is half the battle, and without lenses support, every camera is doomed to fail. Apple knows this, and in the current state of the camera market, the E-mount - being an established mirrorless mount with tons of support from 3rd party manufacturers - makes a ton of sense.
What Apple should do, is acquire DJI. They have over 200b in cash lying around. They can for sure acquire the company at maybe 10-15b or less.
Tried hello fresh. It's most definitely cheaper and easier to just get your own veggies and do you own cooking without their mini boxes with a few bits of food that barely feeds a person, at a premium.
an apple partnership with BMD would be very interesting. the same way Facebook partnered with Blender. Apple could provide money for R&D and other stuff. funny cuz my two favorite operating systems is MacOS and BM system on pocket cams.
I always though that Apple could just buy RED. Wich I don't konw if it would be a great a on sad move for us cinematographers ahah.
But I'm curious to see what Apple would really buy : patent for red raw yeah and then ?
I don't know how the internals of Red works, do they outsource a lof of things or not ?
Apple buying blackmagic would never happen until Grant last breaths. He's too much of a Robin Hood for Apple, he wouldn't let Apple buy them.
They do their own manufacturing supposedly... I don't think they make their own sensors but who knows. But buying RED comes with a ton of benefits.
And yeahhh, them buying BMD doesn't make a ton of sense but honestly more so than any other company I could think of. Mostly because of Davinci Resolve and BMD's close ties with APPLE. That from a software side of things could make a ton of sense.
@@FrameVoyager Sensor weise only Sony does it right ?
I mean : Does Red do its own design of camera body ?, Does RED do their on engeneering (thermal management, computing, color science). Do they developp / code their own software ?
I don't know how much of Red get its hands dirty.
Mannnn! Great video. Are you telling me “don’t make that move, don’t buy that camera now”!!! 😅 Thanks brother. Great info as always
Thanks! And haha I'd never recommend buying a RED camera. 😅
I would say Nikon, as not only do they have a solid line of consumer facing cameras, they're encroaching on professional videography these days as well with the Z9, but mostly due to Nikon's EUV lithography steppers that are the only potential competitors to ASML steppers. Eventually I see Apple needing to develop their own fabs as they face an industry being monopolized by TSMC, and having their own stepper equipment would be a good step.
Does anyone know what camera apple uses for their keynote events
As someone once famously said, "If my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a bicycle". :)
Probably the first time I've ever seen the real HelloFresh ingredients and finished dish 😂
😅😅😅 haha probably true! Had to film this one at the last second before I flew out of town too!
I've actually used them before we got sponsored by them. Not bad options!
Black Magic it is rumoured will adopt the Leica "L Mount" lenses endorsed by Panasonic, and Sigma at this time. That would allow Apple to develop ther camera body sourcing a full frame sensor from someone . The Apple would do well to develop the camera aimed at high end U Tube photography ,,(they need time code (master and slave selectable, XLR mic inputs with DC for condensor mics and a medi baocx that can accept several cameras at once that their Mac can store the materil facilitating editing).
My guess is that it's simply not worth it for Apple to buy a camera company. They effectively serve everyone in that market through a software back end. Buying something like RED would potentially antagonise other companies that rely on ProRes and Apple's software (and compute hardware) toolchain.
So the $ has to make sense for them to *buy* a camera company, and I don't think the extra $ they earned would be worthwhile in potentially antagonising the other camera companies.
Love everything you do, Frame Voyager!
Appreciate it!
There's a few things that make me think that Apple wouldn't be able to make a cinema camera.
A lot of big studios, Pixar, ILM, WETA and more has very specific workflows and those 3 workflows are built around big Linux workstations and render farms.
Second is Ingestion platforms and add-ons, if studios had to throw away microphones, screens, mounts and more because Apple refuses to use the open standard(like they do with phones and everything else) and they use ingestion platforms that sends the data to big mainframes that aren't built around Apple ecosystem.
If Apple do a camera like they do with iPhone where its full of proprietary hardware and software
Exactly! That's why I think buying a company like RED would make a lot more sense for them then building a camera.
I dont think Apple would make a camera ,all apple products are based on clever design to draw customers I dont think an artist would say." Color is not so great but it looks flashy"
Good video but I must point out that Blackmagic's core business aren't cameras, but the various capture\playback\switching\converting video boxes they make, which are used all over the world. Hell, even DaVinci Resolve isn't their core business, just another excuse to sell their hardware: do you need a way to connect a high-grade 4K HDR monitor to your DaVinci grading suite? What a coincidence! Blackmagic also makes a in\out converter that happens to work PERFECTLY with DaVinci! That's why their yearly gross is higher than Arri's - you don't get those figures by selling the likes of the URSA Mini or the Pocket. To Blackmagic, cameras are more of a side venture and they don't spend that much on R&D on it (that's why they are so cheap). And I don't blame them (although I steer clear of their cameras as much as I can), since, as this channel has eloquently pointed out several times, making serious cinema cameras is very high-risk. Blackmagic actually managed to carve a nice niche for themselves, all things considered.
Exactly 😉 it depends on where they want to land. BMDs business is not cinema cameras but software and hardware. This would help apple not only get midtier cinema cameras but an ecosystem they can integrate into their own systems.
I probably should have been clearer about this in the video but, the monetary value is not really in the cinema camera market but what it would do for marketing and integration in existing apple tech. I mean think about davinci resolve being sold with a MacBook pro and replacing their final cut pro which doesn't seem to be keeping up. To me it's about more what tech and clout apple could use for their existing products to push more and more to creatives. ( I say all of this not being an apple fan at all and not wanting this to happen)
@@FrameVoyager I see where you're coming from and it does make sense, but I don't think Apple and BM would make good bedfellows. For starters, right now they seem to be slightly at odds with each other over ProRes RAW, as BM still hasn't given support to in DaVinci - which is probably the single think preventing ProRes RAW from becoming a leading format (much more than the infamous RED patent). And I think BM is not adding PR RAW because they do sell their own external BRAW recorders and seem pretty serious about keeping their grip on that particular sector. But, in broader terms, I don't think Apple is that interested in the media industry save for selling the hardware post-production people need for editing, VFX and Color Grading: as long as people run DaVinci on their MacPros, they are happy. Things might change if people will switch en masse to other hardware brands, but, right now, most post-houses I know still use Apple workstations (some have custom-made Linux machines, but their require a deeper knowledge of their hardware from the user, while Apple stuff is still the most reliable off-the-shelf stuff you can get if you're working with video files).
Apple should create their own cameras. Not a cinema camera, not a stills camera, not a camera with the computing power and interface of an iPhone. But a camera that does it all. One camera for everyone. A 48MP, 4K120 12Bit Raw, Emount (to Steal Sony's Market ), Lidar detect follow focus, detachable sensor from body Camera.
I believe it's very possible
Blackmagic would be a better buy than RED buy why not try and buy both?! Apple could consolidate around DaVinci Resolve (a program they are increasingly focused on in their keynotes), incorporate BRAW into ProRes brand, and I guess continue to sell cameras under RED brand with REDs sensor technology which is quite good compared to ARRI. Blackmagic has a large footprint in the smaller media houses outside of Hollywood with production and production equipment for live-streaming.
I can't imagine Apple wanting a cinema camera. Apple's going the computational photography route, which seems both more powerful and the biggest market. Computational photography is computer-based, software-based photo technology - what Apple does - that has no upper limit in development. Apple is already in this business. And nearly every product Apple sells is a camera. It's essentially hardware/software to make cameras simulate other cameras. In the future, an iPhone will simulate an Arri. Or medium format. Computational photography is a more certain market than the cinema camera market. In-built stabilisation and being able to shoot under water are also advantages
I dont think so. The latest videos of an iphone 14 looks sometimes washed in instagram ,how it would look in a big monitor? No way computational photography will match arri
Apple doesn't have much of a history of going into specialized markets and selling items that only a business would buy. Even their mac pro / mac server lines have not been historically very successful. If Apple made a camera, it would need to be (1) affordable to consumers (2) small and convenient (3) differentiated from the phone but still w/ powerful compute. I can see it happening since they already have a lot of the fundamentals, but cinema camera? Nah.
But what they'd get with buying into either specialized market is key codec patents from RED or very large software and programs from BMD. Both of these would fuel their other product lines imo. Probably unlikely, but there still is a monetary value in it
@@FrameVoyager I can't see Apple buying Red or BMD for patents and then suffering through staying in the business of building niche hardware. Steve Jobs said in the past "what's most important is what we don't do." I don't think they want to get tied up in side hustles, and I'm not a patent attorney or anything, but I kinda think if Apple wants more camera patents, they have the cash to hire away some engineers and file some patents. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see any kind of camera from Apple, cinema or otherwise - I just don't see it worth it to them to get distracted when they need much larger markets to make a significant impact on their bottom line.
Blackmagic does make sense given their approach of we know better what you need., but red probably better guess considering that they have been irrelevant for some time and losing their popularity with raising alternatives such as blackmagic, zcam and dji
After so many replacements of my Airpods Max, which keep failing over and over again, I really hope they don‘t! Their computers and iPads are awesome though.
haha yeahhh, I feel like if they did end up doing it they'd have to treat it like a separate company still.
How is your airpods failing?
@@Teluric2 condensation. the anc went all crazy, the anc button died, the head detection went missing and then the whole unit died. happened way too often to be a coincidence
Super interesting video but was wondering what song you used at 0:44-0:51 and 3:09?
Why not both 🤷🏼♂️
Seriously I think BMD is more aligned with the Apple design philosophy and simplicity. Also neither is targeting the top end of the market. Surely a Mac Pro or Mac Studio is an expensive computer for a regular consumer but it's nowhere near of the most expensive COTS PCs that you can buy from Dell, Lenovo, or HP Enterprise. Not in specs nor in price. Just to throw some numbers as a ref, I think the retail prices of absolutely top notch workstations are somewhere between 400k and 500k USD.
Can you explain more about that workstations? Specs?
Last week I Googled will Apple make a cinema camera
Now you upload a video about apple making a cinema camera and/or purchasing RED/BMD
Your channel gives me tons of motivation and inspiration! Keep going!
I try to think outside the box and move away from the nostalgia of the cinema that is increasingly approaching television. I think that with the arrival of the metaverse and the Ai the best bet would be the abandoned LYTRO. And the acquisition of BMD, which strangely has been flirting with Apple's architecture, would be very convenient.
BMD is my most favourite company ever. Please God no! never let Apple buy them!
😅😅😅
Make a digital camera that can handle direct sun in the same way to film and you have a winner.
0.0% chance Apple does this unless they become a conglomerate corporation like Sony in the future that does everything.
Last year there was an open letter to Apple CEO Tim Cook accusing Apple of letting Final Cut Pro fall behind rival editing tools from a collection of video editors. What I am getting at is people are lucky Apple even has Final Cut Pro still let alone trying to get into some ultra niche space in cinema cameras.
Apple has disconnected more and more from its focus on professionals and bet on consumer products. Even the prosumer market and competing against Canon, Panasonic, Sony is likely not attractive for Apple.
The only scenario I would love to see is a mirrorless professional camera like a Sony Alpha or Canon R running an OS like iOS or Android allowing Smartphone-like computational photography and state of the art connectivity. Samsung tried something like this in 2016 with the Galaxy NX but I think they were just too early to market.
However, the overall camera market beyond Smartphone cameras is just too small for Apple to get into. Apple abadonned the professional market years ago and it is not likely that they reenter it any time soon. In 2002, Apple bought Shake to kill it off in 2009, Apple Color which for the most part ended up in FinalCut.
All of apples product strategy targets primarily the consumer with some prosumer/professional offerings such as Prores and ProresRAW.
They should just do a camera for “prosumer” market, with excellent hardware and software
If Apple bought Blackmagic design could this be the end of DaVinici Resolve? or at least the free version we use for music videos, as it competes with Final Cut Pro.
Same IDEA! I was Thinking about !
What about Canon?
i have long been waiting for apple to announce a dedicated full blown camera system. it does not have to be like traditional mirrorless or DSLR style, it have to be Apple style. Just a tiny iPhone camera produce such a breathtaking photo, i cant imagine what Apple can achieve with 1 inch sensor.
I don't see Apple entering such a niche market. It'd be interesting to see but I wouldn't bet on it.
So as Nikon, DJI, Panasonic, olympus and Pentax.
'Former' CEO Tim Cook? Did I miss something hahaha
😅 I uh, for some reason thought I was saying Steve jobs
@@FrameVoyager word it happens 🤣I had to look it up I thought I missed some big news. In any case, fantastic video as ALWAYS. Truly some of the best in the game - keep it up! I think I’ve watched every video on this channel 😅
Ummm is Tim Cook not the CEO anymore? Why did you say former CEO?
I thought I was saying Steve jobs 😅
I love Apple... I love Blackmagic Design... I think Apple would improve on Blackmagic delivering product on time with out flaws BUT they would ruin the company by trying to make products for everyone... They can PARTNER on a product but if Apple purchased Blackmagic It would be a disaster for Blackmagic Designs and those of us who rely on them making product for a specialized market segment... SAME WAY THEY MESSED UP Final Cut Pro!
You know..
You can record 10 bit CinemaDNG RAW video on Android..( not compressed but you can do it)
I can record above 2K RAW video on my 180$ device
Why on earth would apple want to get into this business? You need to look at their sales and imagine how huge a business has to be for them to be interested in it.
apple camera must use mac os & final pro cut
Or davinci resolve!
I would sell my red immediately because my clients would just say "shot on red? I can do that on my iphone!"
@5:36 _former_ CEO Tim Cook? Did I miss a news update?
I think I have seen the first advert of Apple like "the-following-movie-was-shot-only-on-the-latest-iphone" as part of the introduction campaign for the 5s. So...lets get started guys !
This vehicle is about hypothetical scenarios...
Also I don’t see them buying red. Almost everything they shoot in house is on a Sony Venice or fx9. Not that that means much in the world of business mergers and acquisitions but apple doesn’t seem to really like the red product…and also doesn’t seem to be interested at all in producing a camera outside of their iphone/pad/computers. The apple camera is in the same category as the apple car and apple television (not the Apple TV) as something people have speculated they would make for years that in reality apple has no intention or interest in making. They are mostly focused on wearable VR and augmented reality RD right now. Unless the camera ties into that it ain’t happening.
IF apple would make a kamera it would be totally klosed box, as in not skrews or anything, soldered memory kard, proprietary mount with soldered lens and ofkourse built in battery.
Prices:
With 512gb memory 4k 4:2:0 hevc only 2800 monnee
With 1tb memory 4k 4:2:0 proress lt
Only 4700 monnee
With 2tb memory 4k 4:2:2 proress hq
Only 12000 monnee
hahaha and you'd have to buy the power cable and the special apple mount lens and tripod
apple box 6k, sensor sold separately
Apple buying Red and calling it Red Apple would be hilarious!
If apple would be allowed to buy more than one company, I think apple would go for RED & BM possibly DJI as well.
For me if I was head at apple thats what I would do, and put all 3 teams together but keep the all 3 brands.
Apple would only buy a camera brand to vertically integrate a sensor manufacturer that could replace Sony’s sensors
If I would be Apple, I'd buy Blackmagic. Good, yet underrated cameras; very good editing software.
Is what possibly way are Blackmagic cameras underrated?
I like the idea of Apple buying Red! ❤
If Apple buys Red (and it's patents) it would immediately have the industry by the balls..
nice. I actually asked this myself a lot times
I %100 agree! I don't think apple would develop a camera from scratch this late in the game! To be honest, I'm surprised RED wasn't already bought by Apple at one point you could buy a RED Camera in the Apple Store, The Raven. Buying Red would give more power to iPhone Pro users as well because I'm certain new censors styles and Red Raw codecs would be made available. Also, Apple could expand Red's lineup to fill the gap! Right now they don't really have an entry-level camera, something Indie Filmmakers can make use of. Apple could bridge the gap by creating a hybrid camera made for Indie Filmmakers with Pro Level features. From a software standing apple can also work to improve the performance of editing with RED Raw! Since the process would now be end-to-end apple!
I think in the long run apple is best utilized to create standards across the industry like ProRes. Like you said producing the cameras isn’t a big return on investment and Apple probably produces waaay more cash by selling an iPhone every 2 years. For the cost of that iPhone I could buy a new apsc camera but people won’t do that because didn’t you see? The new iPhone has 48MP 🤓
Well that's why I think RED is a fascinating buy. Sure you get the cameras but more so you control the compressed RAW patents they own. That you can sell and market to make even more money on iPhones. It's an interesting idea though
@@FrameVoyager you’re right RED would be an obvious choice not only for those reasons but red isn’t a “key” player like Arri is. Apple would have big shoes to fill at Arri whereas they would easily be able to pick and choose what they want from RED without really disturbing the cinema industry
Codec standards should never be developed by a company like Apple. Their codecs are proprietary and there are issues creating ProRes files outside of Mac OS. Proper industry standards have long been developed and ProRes isn't one of them. There are many good technical reasons why ProRes should not be a standard. The sheer weight of Apple means their products often become defaults. Different thing.
@@digitalcity1 so because ProRes has issues outside macOS it shouldn’t be any kind of standard? Are you recording home movies in ProRes? I think anyone looking to use the codec would intentionally use the proper hardware with it and idk about proprietary I’ve seen multiple camera’s support ProRes. Plus nobody said every camera could only shoot it? Idk what you’re complaining about? :/
@@kcliffordphoto I'm talking post production and deliverables. There is no standard codec for cameras. Each manufacturer has their own proprietary codec - Sony, Red, Canon, Blackmagic etc. Yes some cameras shoot ProRes but it never can be a camera standard
the best option would be for apple to buy RED given the patents RED already has for compressed lossless capture making it impossible to build anything without violating them.
If Apple would like to buy something on cheap, they could go for Atomos - at least that is a prominent ProRes RAW implementer. Looking at the stock price, they managed to even fail before entering your hall of failed cine cams. I thought you got the recent sensor announcement from them, as that story turned out a way differently :)
What ever gives us better and less expensive cameras is something I'd be very happy about.
I would rather be more interested in Samsung making a cinema camera. Their full touchscreen android cameras were epic.
I would buy it
Former CEO Tim Cook? Do you know something we don’t know?
Let's all hope Apple keep their greedy hands from Blackmagic Design...
Is the thumbnail an AI generated picture? There is something uncanny about the picture.
Haha it is! We've been experimenting with them to get better thumbnails that illustrate the topic than having to spend hours hand crafting them
Apple wants to empower content creators and camera
Manufacturers more than start wars with them.
Apple “should” get their shit together in hardware/OS for 3D, games, VFX, Architecture. This would include interoperating with AMD and Nvidia GPUs again, even if only as secondary processors.
If Apple were to get involved it would be better for them to acquire Panavision.
I like Panavision! But they really only do lenses and even then it's more about the coating on the lenses. The camera they have now is basically a disguised RED camera haha.
But for hardware yes! That's why I included Blackmagic Design, because that would be a perfect company to build that entire content creation base from with Davinci Resolve.
@@FrameVoyager That’s the point. If Apple makes enemies of all the camera companies we all lose. Being able to fund Panavision’s innovative projects and productizing a small number of their accessories would keep Apple good with ALL camera makers and ALL content creators while adding a wealth of knowledge and experience in cinema pre-production to post-production.
@@Imhotep397 True! That could be an interesting route for them to pursue. As well as geting a very storied company
I dont think apple wants to buy a camera company because they want to create that conversation that apple iPhones are fully capable of shooting films with ease of access. The thing they'll lack from this is versatility in the equipment. idk for some reason I feel like apple is willing to die on that hill of innovational arrogance before buying out a camera company.