SORRY everyone, I had a black, (audio only) screen from 29:41 to 34:25 I didn't catch it... my apologies. If you want to see the measurements taken and the rest of the video here it is ruclips.net/video/A0l0q2CSr0Y/видео.html
This has been my experience as well. I always did autoloader stuff for rifles on my turret and made precision stuff on my single stage, assuming it just HAD to be more accurate. Once I finally did a comparison I found no discernable difference and I use my turret press for just about everything that I don't do in a progressive now. As long as you set the dies to compensate for the turret slack it's 100% repeatable. I actually get better concentricity with the turret. I think it's because it can float a bit and find its own center. Good to see it's the same with other people's presses too.
Good to see a vid from you TreeTop. I kinda expected that would be your findings. I’ve got a classic turret and a classic single stage. The turret loads just as accurate ammo as the single stage. I think the floating turret kinda works like a floating shell holder 🤷♂️.
Hey Buddy, good to hear from you. You are right about the floating shell holder part I was a little more concerned about the vertical movement of the turret. Ive always loved the turret press for its function but tend to do load work up and rifle cartridge's I want to take out to distance on a single stage press. I have several 🤪 Anyway, I decided to test it and it was not what I expected. Very cool results in my opinion. Good for the Lee guys.
Hi Tree Top, great to see a video from you again, I always enjoy your videos and find them to be very informative. I loaded rifle and pistol ammo on my old Lyman O -MAG from back in the 80s till I picked up my Lee Classic Turret a couple of years ago and for my shooting need I can't tell a difference in ammo accuracy wise. I still use the old Lyman for other purposes and when I'm just loading a box or two of rifle ammunition.
Thanks for the kind comment. As you can see I am a fan of old presses too. The Lee classic has always been a favorite of mine but this is the first time I actually tested its accuracy and it didn't disappoint. Im glad I did and captured it to share.
Hello, great video, I have the same setup as you. I really like my Lee equipment, affordable with good results. I did however break one of the side arm plate doing a full resize on a Remington 7mm mag. So any larger cases I use my rock chucker. I mostly use the Lee turret for pistol, and smaller rifle, just my own experience.
Thanks! I cant imagine how you could break the linkage on a LCT press. Its basically the same linkage they put on the BMG press. Must be a material defect. Contact Lee, they will make it right by you. I actually dont do resizing on the Turret press, I just wanted to show you can. Because you need to check trim length and chamfer, I do this part on a single so when I'm ready to load all the prep work is done and I now complete the cartridge on the Turret press.
All I have is the LEE turret and even though parts move around (like when the turret move 1/8” etc) but the thing is, it does is the same way every time. I’ll take my time and do work uploads for Accuracy and all my bullets COAL. will be within .001” +/- of each other. seems fine to me. I’ve been loading on that thing for two years. Shooting 1 moa with bulk .224” etc
@@TreeTopFlier lol. I was doing 80 in a loudass truck voice texting. . Lmao. I just was reading it and was like “wtf is this. It was supposed to say….. (I’ll edit it)
What you say is true and logical and what I've assumed, but I've never actually put it to the test....till now. I bet you roll up to an professional F class tournament with an LCT press on your tailgate and you'll get some snickers. BUT....the numbers are there, they don't lie.
I love my lee turret. I made mine with a floating shell holders . I always adjust my FL dies to contact the shell holder hard in a pre- stress condition. I grind down the shell holders a small amount to give clearance to move around in the ram . Polish the top of the ram with Emory cloth and dremeltool to reduce friction between shell holder and ram. Use a rubber O ring to hold shell holder in place. I remove expander button from FL Die. I use a Lyman M die for neck expansion. Use Hornady or Forster bullet seaters . .000 to .002 bullet run out at most.
Hey James, I knew it was good, I just didn't expect it to be that good. I really thought the LCT would struggle with shoulder set back but I was wrong, it ran like a champ. Thanks for commenting, hope you are doing well sir.
@@TreeTopFlier yay I was going to buy one because I broke my o.g. Lee single stage. I found myself watching your comparison between the new style and the classic cast.
Good work man but for me the best way to get low concentricity is by using a expander mandrel. Shoot them with a chrono and see which one has better sd and es
Hey thanks for watching and commenting. In my own reloading practice on shouldered rimless cartridges I use a mandrel on the neck too. Its better for consistent neck tension. In this video, I want to see if I could capture the difference between two press types using basic dies. I have to show a process and measurements people can relate too. Personally, I have come to realize that the dies and press are secondary to the condition of the brass. Dies will not entirely fix concentricity caused by inconsistent neck wall thickness or a cocked neck from being fired and extracted from an over gassed AR. Brass has way too much spring back to take keep all the forming the die imparts on it. Annealing helps allot and neck turning will get you the rest of the way there. In the video I showed one cartridge that had .0045" concentricity reading. I suspected it was neck wall thickness. Later, I pulled the bullet and re-turned the neck. It was thicker on one side than the other. I then re-sized the brass again, seated a bullet and this time it was concentric to .0005" To me, this highlights the importance of good brass or taking the time to true up mediocre brass. Sorry for the long winded reply but this is a topic I enjoy a lot.
@@TreeTopFlier awesome we test and find what's best for us. What works for me might not work for others. I love testing things about reloading it's super cool. I just started using a barrel tuner and I'm a believer now. Have a good one and keep testing things 🤙🏽
Thanks, No that stand project ran its course, hundreds later, It was always a heavy lift for my Cul de Sac garage. The new administration changed its policy toward online payment processors making it so I had to create a business in order to continue or eat all costs and shipping as income. I'm a little bitter about the whole thing to be honest. I still have all the gear to start back up things change. Thanks for asking.
Good test. I will say I get atrocious runout on both 30-06 and 223 brass on my turret press. For the 30-06 I think the surplus hxp brass is to blame more than anything but I’m not sure what the excuse for the 223 would be
I have be working to demystify cartridge run out for a while now. I have come to the conclusion that dies and presses do not have much to do with runout. Runout is a product of either irregularities in the brass construction or damage caused, in most cases, by firing in an over gassed AR platform. Once fired 223/556 brass is the worst. If I take a case that is giving me a lot of run out, anneal it, size it, neck turn it to remove any extra material so it is an equal thickness all the way around, then resize it again with this new neck dimension I can fix most problems. On occasion you will find a case where the bullet is not so much off center but cocked sideways. This is usually caused by excess seating force aka too much interference fit between the projectile and inside neck dia. Old man Lee from Lee precision said the best guide for a straight bullet is a well formed neck. I think he was pretty spot on. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@TreeTopFlier I’m shooting garands so I’m not neck turning but I seriously get rounds so bent you can see it just looking down the case like a pool cue. I got a Sinclair gauge and will run some tests myself on lube, annealing, and whether they’re always bent in the same direction relative to the press, the die, or toward/away from the thickest part of the neck wall
@Almost_Made_It It's easy to tell if the die or press is causing it. Just put a mark on the head of each brass with a sharpie. Put the brass in the shell holder with the mark indexed the same direction, like 6 o'clock. After sizing put it on a concentricty guage. If it's out in the same direction with respect to the mark it's something in the press or die. If not, it's bad memories from firing or the cases themselves. Also, on Lee presses with stops in the linkage it's worth noting, at the stop on the linkage if you press hard, the ram will rock sideways as the bullet is seated. So it's better to cultivate a light hand during seating. But if you can see bent cases right out of the gun, that's tough to overcome.
My Lee Classic Turret works great for precision reloading like any press I've owned. I simply make the shell holders float . I use a hand drill file and grinder to cut down the dimension of the shell holder to where it is loose fitting on the press ram. Get rid of the spring clip that holds the shell holder in place ans replace it with a rubber band or O-ring. You want play in the shell holder to allow the brass cases to self center in the die. The good thing the Lee Classic Turret has over other turret presses , it that it is rigid. It does not flex like othe turret and progressive presses. You get much more consistent case sizing for controlling cartridge head space and accurate bullet seating depth. It is a wonderful thing to be able to load precision ammo at a good pace compared to using a single stage press and/or hand dies.
Yes that is the proper way to say it but folks usually stop at thousands place and digital calipers only display a 5 or 0 in the ten thousands space hence the half. I did get awkward with my pronunciation, I am dyslexic so my visual cues sometimes get scrambled on the way to my speech center. Thanks for watching.
You seem to have way more advance gauges than I have been exposed to. F-class? What is the gauges you put on your calipers called. Ive never seen a way to measure the shoulder (if that is the correct term) I just started loading .308 and being as precise as I can with double and triple weighing powder charges, weighing every boolit , matching bullet length to .0005 . I do not have a .308. Lol. Not yet
@@DisgustedGenXr Hornady makes them, They are called Comparators. They consist of the attachment and the bushing for your cartridge. Different bushings for different cartridges. Then they make bushings for bullets too so you can measure CBTO. www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/
That pair is from Harbor Freight (Pittsburgh brand) 15 years ago. cheap but very accurate. I have a second pair that is not as good. dumb luck i guess.
u still have to resize the body some time or it won't fit in the chamber after the 3rd or 4th time neck resizing... I always do a FL resizing... why not!
I am full length resizing, I'm just not doing more than is needed, so as to not over work the brass. This is called shoulder bump, shoulder set back or controlling your head space. You are correct, if neck only, sizing you will eventually need to do a complete resize.
I don't know of anyone who's picked up the pattern and started making them. You might try a post on thereloadersnetwork.com discord server. I made hundreds of them, I imagine someone would have moved on to new equipment by now.
@user-lr1wx3vj9q Truth, I never had official plans. I had a cut sheet and a pattern that I cut out and traced. It's the base + 3/16" on the sides, cut out of 1/8 plate. The sides are 1" strap also 1/8, bent and welded to the top plate they were cut 4 11/16" each. The base vertical is 5 1/2" of 5/8" bar welded to the base inside and out. The vertical tube is 3/4" square stock cut 10 1/2". 1 5/8" up drill a 3/8" hole in one side and weld a 3/8" nut over it. Use a 3/8 threaded nob here for height adjustment. On the other end... drill another 3/8 hole in some 1/8 stock and weld a nut on it too. Now tap the nut down into the 10" tube flat side up, careful to square it to the tube, weld all the way around and grind smooth. The swing arm is 5 1/4" 3/4 square tube welded to a 7/8 -14 nut. I cut the tube to 6" trim 3 sides off at 3/4" so I can fold the remaining 3/4" side over and weld the end shut for a clean look. Drill this on that end 3/8" all the way through. The base you have to pick up the holes drilled 5/16" you need 1/8" spacers under each mount to hold it off of the raised LEE lettering on the base. I made up jigs for a lot of these tasks but the first ones were al free hand.
Great vid 👍, always good to see some mediocre equipment producing great ammo, not to mention the shooters fundimentals may vary more than the results(i know it would play a small favtor with me) ,just a thought
Thanks! You are correct, in my reloading and shooting I am the loosest nut in the entire process. Thats one of the reasons I post measurements instead of targets to quantify results.
SORRY everyone, I had a black, (audio only) screen from 29:41 to 34:25 I didn't catch it... my apologies. If you want to see the measurements taken and the rest of the video here it is ruclips.net/video/A0l0q2CSr0Y/видео.html
This has been my experience as well. I always did autoloader stuff for rifles on my turret and made precision stuff on my single stage, assuming it just HAD to be more accurate. Once I finally did a comparison I found no discernable difference and I use my turret press for just about everything that I don't do in a progressive now. As long as you set the dies to compensate for the turret slack it's 100% repeatable. I actually get better concentricity with the turret. I think it's because it can float a bit and find its own center. Good to see it's the same with other people's presses too.
That was exactly my thought prior to doing this test. Thanks for commenting.
Good timing for me. Still watching and learning to figure out how to start my loading journey.
That's great, let me know if I can help. I've got a starter series on Rumble if you're interested
Your posts are always quality. Thank you for putting in the work on this.
Very nice of you to say. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Good to see a vid from you TreeTop. I kinda expected that would be your findings. I’ve got a classic turret and a classic single stage. The turret loads just as accurate ammo as the single stage. I think the floating turret kinda works like a floating shell holder 🤷♂️.
Hey Buddy, good to hear from you. You are right about the floating shell holder part I was a little more concerned about the vertical movement of the turret. Ive always loved the turret press for its function but tend to do load work up and rifle cartridge's I want to take out to distance on a single stage press. I have several 🤪 Anyway, I decided to test it and it was not what I expected. Very cool results in my opinion. Good for the Lee guys.
Good to see you making videos again. Hope all is well.
All good here, thanks for watching 👀
Hi Tree Top, great to see a video from you again, I always enjoy your videos and find them to be very informative. I loaded rifle and pistol ammo on my old Lyman O -MAG from back in the 80s till I picked up my Lee Classic Turret a couple of years ago and for my shooting need I can't tell a difference in ammo accuracy wise. I still use the old Lyman for other purposes and when I'm just loading a box or two of rifle ammunition.
Thanks for the kind comment. As you can see I am a fan of old presses too. The Lee classic has always been a favorite of mine but this is the first time I actually tested its accuracy and it didn't disappoint. Im glad I did and captured it to share.
Hello, great video, I have the same setup as you. I really like my Lee equipment, affordable with good results. I did however break one of the side arm plate doing a full resize on a Remington 7mm mag. So any larger cases I use my rock chucker. I mostly use the Lee turret for pistol, and smaller rifle, just my own experience.
Thanks! I cant imagine how you could break the linkage on a LCT press. Its basically the same linkage they put on the BMG press. Must be a material defect. Contact Lee, they will make it right by you. I actually dont do resizing on the Turret press, I just wanted to show you can. Because you need to check trim length and chamfer, I do this part on a single so when I'm ready to load all the prep work is done and I now complete the cartridge on the Turret press.
All I have is the LEE turret and even though parts move around (like when the turret move 1/8” etc) but the thing is, it does is the same way every time. I’ll take my time and do work uploads for Accuracy and all my bullets COAL. will be within .001” +/- of each other. seems fine to me. I’ve been loading on that thing for two years. Shooting 1 moa with bulk .224” etc
This comment got scrambled for some reason. Maybe an attack of auto correct or a translator gone haywire.
@@TreeTopFlier lol. I was doing 80 in a loudass truck voice texting. . Lmao. I just was reading it and was like “wtf is this. It was supposed to say….. (I’ll edit it)
@@DisgustedGenXr That right there is funny 😁
What you say is true and logical and what I've assumed, but I've never actually put it to the test....till now.
I bet you roll up to an professional F class tournament with an LCT press on your tailgate and you'll get some snickers. BUT....the numbers are there, they don't lie.
I love my lee turret. I made mine with a floating shell holders . I always adjust my FL dies to contact the shell holder hard in a pre- stress condition. I grind down the shell holders a small amount to give clearance to move around in the ram . Polish the top of the ram with Emory cloth and dremeltool to reduce friction between shell holder and ram. Use a rubber O ring to hold shell holder in place. I remove expander button from FL Die. I use a Lyman M die for neck expansion. Use Hornady or Forster bullet seaters .
.000 to .002 bullet run out at most.
Interesting approach 👍
Hey TreeTop !! Good to see you !!
You too Sir, thanks for checking in!
Love my LCT. Great video.
I love my LCT even more now. Thanks for watching!
I've done these tests with the same results . So I wasn't too surprised .
Hey James, I knew it was good, I just didn't expect it to be that good. I really thought the LCT would struggle with shoulder set back but I was wrong, it ran like a champ. Thanks for commenting, hope you are doing well sir.
I always appreciate your take.
That said, I want to believe that the turret is at least as good. Please don't present me with unwelcome facts.
Thank you sir! Hope you are doing well.
Spoiler alert, the results were ridiculously close and the turret edged out the Rock Chucker by .0005"
@@TreeTopFlier yep. We had a baby and work has been very busy. It's been over a year since my last video... Life is good. Same to you!
@@TreeTopFlier yay I was going to buy one because I broke my o.g. Lee single stage. I found myself watching your comparison between the new style and the classic cast.
Good work man but for me the best way to get low concentricity is by using a expander mandrel. Shoot them with a chrono and see which one has better sd and es
Hey thanks for watching and commenting. In my own reloading practice on shouldered rimless cartridges I use a mandrel on the neck too. Its better for consistent neck tension. In this video, I want to see if I could capture the difference between two press types using basic dies. I have to show a process and measurements people can relate too. Personally, I have come to realize that the dies and press are secondary to the condition of the brass. Dies will not entirely fix concentricity caused by inconsistent neck wall thickness or a cocked neck from being fired and extracted from an over gassed AR. Brass has way too much spring back to take keep all the forming the die imparts on it. Annealing helps allot and neck turning will get you the rest of the way there. In the video I showed one cartridge that had .0045" concentricity reading. I suspected it was neck wall thickness. Later, I pulled the bullet and re-turned the neck. It was thicker on one side than the other. I then re-sized the brass again, seated a bullet and this time it was concentric to .0005" To me, this highlights the importance of good brass or taking the time to true up mediocre brass.
Sorry for the long winded reply but this is a topic I enjoy a lot.
@@TreeTopFlier awesome we test and find what's best for us. What works for me might not work for others. I love testing things about reloading it's super cool. I just started using a barrel tuner and I'm a believer now. Have a good one and keep testing things 🤙🏽
Good video are still making those powder measure stands for the lee turret press
Thanks, No that stand project ran its course, hundreds later, It was always a heavy lift for my Cul de Sac garage. The new administration changed its policy toward online payment processors making it so I had to create a business in order to continue or eat all costs and shipping as income. I'm a little bitter about the whole thing to be honest. I still have all the gear to start back up things change. Thanks for asking.
Good test. I will say I get atrocious runout on both 30-06 and 223 brass on my turret press. For the 30-06 I think the surplus hxp brass is to blame more than anything but I’m not sure what the excuse for the 223 would be
I have be working to demystify cartridge run out for a while now. I have come to the conclusion that dies and presses do not have much to do with runout. Runout is a product of either irregularities in the brass construction or damage caused, in most cases, by firing in an over gassed AR platform. Once fired 223/556 brass is the worst. If I take a case that is giving me a lot of run out, anneal it, size it, neck turn it to remove any extra material so it is an equal thickness all the way around, then resize it again with this new neck dimension I can fix most problems. On occasion you will find a case where the bullet is not so much off center but cocked sideways. This is usually caused by excess seating force aka too much interference fit between the projectile and inside neck dia. Old man Lee from Lee precision said the best guide for a straight bullet is a well formed neck. I think he was pretty spot on. Thanks for watching and commenting.
@@TreeTopFlier I’m shooting garands so I’m not neck turning but I seriously get rounds so bent you can see it just looking down the case like a pool cue. I got a Sinclair gauge and will run some tests myself on lube, annealing, and whether they’re always bent in the same direction relative to the press, the die, or toward/away from the thickest part of the neck wall
@Almost_Made_It It's easy to tell if the die or press is causing it. Just put a mark on the head of each brass with a sharpie. Put the brass in the shell holder with the mark indexed the same direction, like 6 o'clock. After sizing put it on a concentricty guage. If it's out in the same direction with respect to the mark it's something in the press or die. If not, it's bad memories from firing or the cases themselves. Also, on Lee presses with stops in the linkage it's worth noting, at the stop on the linkage if you press hard, the ram will rock sideways as the bullet is seated. So it's better to cultivate a light hand during seating. But if you can see bent cases right out of the gun, that's tough to overcome.
Not too OCD are we?
Maybe a little...
My Lee Classic Turret works great for precision reloading like any press I've owned. I simply make the shell holders float . I use a hand drill file and grinder to cut down the dimension of the shell holder to where it is loose fitting on the press ram. Get rid of the spring clip that holds the shell holder in place ans replace it with a rubber band or O-ring. You want play in the shell holder to allow the brass cases to self center in the die. The good thing the Lee Classic Turret has over other turret presses , it that it is rigid. It does not flex like othe turret and progressive presses. You get much more consistent case sizing for controlling cartridge head space and accurate bullet seating depth. It is a wonderful thing to be able to load precision ammo at a good pace compared to using a single stage press and/or hand dies.
In interesting observation
Twelve and 1/2 thousandths is 125 ten thousandths.0125”
Yes that is the proper way to say it but folks usually stop at thousands place and digital calipers only display a 5 or 0 in the ten thousands space hence the half. I did get awkward with my pronunciation, I am dyslexic so my visual cues sometimes get scrambled on the way to my speech center. Thanks for watching.
@@TreeTopFlier lol. I knew you knew. Just filling in the blank as if we were talking.
You seem to have way more advance gauges than I have been exposed to. F-class? What is the gauges you put on your calipers called. Ive never seen a way to measure the shoulder (if that is the correct term)
I just started loading .308 and being as precise as I can with double and triple weighing powder charges, weighing every boolit , matching bullet length to .0005 . I do not have a .308. Lol. Not yet
@@DisgustedGenXr Hornady makes them, They are called Comparators. They consist of the attachment and the bushing for your cartridge. Different bushings for different cartridges. Then they make bushings for bullets too so you can measure CBTO. www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/
what calipers are those?
That pair is from Harbor Freight (Pittsburgh brand) 15 years ago. cheap but very accurate. I have a second pair that is not as good. dumb luck i guess.
u still have to resize the body some time or it won't fit in the chamber after the 3rd or 4th time neck resizing... I always do a FL resizing... why not!
I am full length resizing, I'm just not doing more than is needed, so as to not over work the brass. This is called shoulder bump, shoulder set back or controlling your head space. You are correct, if neck only, sizing you will eventually need to do a complete resize.
Do you know anyone who makes your powder stands or has any for sale?
I don't know of anyone who's picked up the pattern and started making them. You might try a post on thereloadersnetwork.com discord server. I made hundreds of them, I imagine someone would have moved on to new equipment by now.
@@TreeTopFlier do you happen to have the build plans for it still?
@user-lr1wx3vj9q Truth, I never had official plans. I had a cut sheet and a pattern that I cut out and traced. It's the base + 3/16" on the sides, cut out of 1/8 plate. The sides are 1" strap also 1/8, bent and welded to the top plate they were cut 4 11/16" each. The base vertical is 5 1/2" of 5/8" bar welded to the base inside and out. The vertical tube is 3/4" square stock cut 10 1/2". 1 5/8" up drill a 3/8" hole in one side and weld a 3/8" nut over it. Use a 3/8 threaded nob here for height adjustment. On the other end... drill another 3/8 hole in some 1/8 stock and weld a nut on it too. Now tap the nut down into the 10" tube flat side up, careful to square it to the tube, weld all the way around and grind smooth. The swing arm is 5 1/4" 3/4 square tube welded to a 7/8 -14 nut. I cut the tube to 6" trim 3 sides off at 3/4" so I can fold the remaining 3/4" side over and weld the end shut for a clean look. Drill this on that end 3/8" all the way through. The base you have to pick up the holes drilled 5/16" you need 1/8" spacers under each mount to hold it off of the raised LEE lettering on the base. I made up jigs for a lot of these tasks but the first ones were al free hand.
Great vid 👍, always good to see some mediocre equipment producing great ammo, not to mention the shooters fundimentals may vary more than the results(i know it would play a small favtor with me) ,just a thought
Thanks! You are correct, in my reloading and shooting I am the loosest nut in the entire process. Thats one of the reasons I post measurements instead of targets to quantify results.