The Compressor Scam Is Itself A Scam? (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- For the compressor, visit my website: www.apmastering.com
This is part 2 of a 3 part series on compressors.
Music credits:
Firesong by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
Infados by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
if you didn't grab the free comp, you can get it via my website www.apmastering.com
You have the best font in your vids - what is it pls
@@CFox.7 Druk
Having a dozen tools that have predictable results is more valuable than having a thousand that you don't quite understand. I'm on board with this.
I think it is admirable to try to push the scene to understand what happens behind fancy tools. A good way to get creative. Please persist, my friend. ;)
thanks!
I dont think there's any mystery on what's going on - it's math on a sample to sample basis. You can't do math 2 ways.
All his haircuts sound the same.
you got me!
Part 1 haircut with panned hard right. 😊
This was an amazing video. The only issue is that I think you handwaved "workflow" too much. I think a great many people value the ability to get a specific sound *quickly*. It's why people use loops, sample packs, and synth presets. There are synth plugins like Phase Plant which can do almost anything. I own that, and I enjoy it, but sometimes having limitless options and needing to build things from scratch is the opposite of inspiring. Sometimes I'd rather load up the far-more-limited impOSCar which has a more 'specific' tone due to its topology... and yet it gets me to my desired *musical result* much faster. The same exact logic applies to FX plugins of many types. Sure, I can use stock REAPER or FL Studio plugins to approximate the sound of plugins like IMPusher, which have inherent 'character' and limited range. But again, it's often faster and more inspiring to use IMPusher and get to my desired sound faster.
Workflow is very important but I kind of have the opposite problem like I illustrate right at the end of the video.... when I use an analogue modelling plugin, it's very limited and I can't get a wide range of sounds out of it, so it's way faster and easier just to use a distortion to distort stuff, an EQ to EQ stuff etc
So this means in theory there's a market for infinite presets. Because you're basically paying for the time someone else took to make something sound a certain way with other plugins and if the hypothesis here is true, then someone still has to take the time to get certain results.
presets are a scam... video on my list!
Thank you for your hard work on this channel. You’re doing the lord’s work with this caliber of no-nonsense educational content. Your courses are at the top of my continuing audio education wishlist.
It is not important how you do it, but THAT you do it.
To have the best of all worlds I always use 10 different compressors in parallel and mix each 10%. 🤣
legit
That's pretty baller. I've never had the nerve to do that.
Do you have them all as inserts or sends?
Michael Brauer agrees with you
>andrew Scheps & Craig bauer have entered the chat
I needed this - like I really needed this. Every mixing and mastering engineer needs to hear this man, AP - you are the real deal, phenomenal knowledge and communication skills.
thanks!
You had a really good sound going with that drum loop at the end. Instantly had me humming melodies over it.
Great stuff mate, thanks for all the research and revelation.
I'm a beginner on these topics about music production. but it's impressive the missunderstanding about this also with my music production teachers.
this is really enlightning for my music career
nice one. yeah some lecturers don't know what they are on about but I would like to think that for the most part lecturers are on point and experts... but when it comes to music, you've got people who make cool records but aren't really engineers, and then electronics engineers who aren't involved in music, so you tend to get the former on a music production course.
@@APMastering Totally agree. Could you recommend a "healthy" roadmap to tackle these topics? That would be a nice video.
Keep it up!
@@ElCaNeIn I am slowly creating courses, that's pretty much the best I can do, but they take a long time to make. ive got one on EQ, one on kick drums, a short one on mix prep for mastering and then a flagship mastering course.
Loving your vids more and more :)
I've been playing with your comp and it's definitely a wild beast! Add a 3 band parametric eq to the sidechain of your compressor in the same gui and almost everything gets covered by your compressor, except saturation, but that can be added by other means.
thanks!! i could add sat and eq in a future version. also eq to the feedback loop
Idea for the next video: ARE ALL MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS A SCAM?? where you could make a synth plugin with all the controls to produce all sounds hahahh
Also, could be cool for your plugin to have presets to mimic few popular compressors. It would be more useful for producers for them to achieve their desired sounds. That's the reason the analog style plugins exist, because they are the quickest way to get a specific desired effect. It's not a scam, it the whole point!
I agree with your point on the bullshit marketing words, that's really quite ridiculous haha
Impressive video!
i couldn't hear much of a difference between the first two comparisons. As for the La2a test i would guess A is the LA2a because of the slightly more prominent low end. What is that ABX Blind Test program your using? Is it a plugin or a standalone thing?
it is available only for reaper because it is a JS plugin. It's made by Tukan studios.
Thanks for having a guess at the LA 2A. So far most people have guessed that too. Not sure when I will do the reveal.
Excellent first principle thinking and presentation! Old school experts don’t want to admit advancements and new school plugins don’t want to acknowledge old school knowledge😊
You're a gift for the audio community, dude. Thank you so much
thanks! I think the controversies I'm causing are probably healthy for the audio scene as at least from my perspective I see a lot of biased reviews and bad advice and I want to do something fresh
Wow! I'm not really sure I heard any type of major differences that would "make or break" a mix AT ALL... Like, I couldn't reliably tell you which is which on the shootout. Not even five minutes in and I'm blown away. Your channel is really delivering in terms of quality of content, glad to be subscribed!
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
thanks! 😀
Have you tried MTurboComp from Melda? It can be tweaked to sound like almost any vintage and modern compressor.
yeah its also cool
Great videos. Does this theory still apply to actual hardware EQs and Compressors? Or is it just for the digital emulations? Cheers
it depends but more or less this applies to everything that compresses and EQs.... for example, EQ can also be applied acoustically and similar principles apply
A was the teletronix 2A and B was AP mastering and reaper plugins and all .. im guessing,,
Logic Pro's compressor has a really good approach at having multiple compression types in one single plugin. It even lets you control the saturation.
PS-If you use the free AP compressor please save your work before bouncing. My session went total blue screen and crashed the computer so something to note. Sounded pretty decent in practice though before that.
yeah sorry to hear that, this is my first plug and i've not even got a windows computer so it's kind of an experimental plug especially on windows. i'm considering getting a pro developer to help me especially with the windows version so it is solid on all computers
@APMastering Right, I'm on Windows. No worries though. I expected some bugs.
I create circuit emulation dsp. If you need advice let me know.
Stability and performance is the actual difficulty behind analog modelling. @@APMastering
Thx 4 the comp ...really appreciated👍
I could hear a difference in the distressor, like the B better, whichever that is, and would actually feel it would make a difference if used on multiple sources at this exact setting, but then again, if you want a different sound, just change the settings. Didn't really hear a difference on the elysia (would have to listen really closely to find it probably). With the LA2A I prefered A, bacause it did something cool with the lows, but again, different settings and you'll get something similar somehow probably - so I would say A was UAD and if not, props to you haha.
Yep diggin the melody quality you got into the drums! I really like how you flipped the whole thing and didn't try to match a thing an expensive plugin does, but go from a cool sound you got in other ways and tried to recreate that in an expensive plugin! Always felt like excactly that was missing from a lot of demos that talked about the vibe and all!
Great video again mate!
With your efforts, you got pretty close to that elysia.
Great explanation of compressors! While I understand the compressor part now, saturation still feels a bit mysterious. Do we really need to destroy something to create it?
I will probably do some videos on saturation at some point
I think it comes down to just get tools you need and get good at mixing and mastering , love music and stop spending money.
YES
how about a video comparing clippers
this has been hotly requested but I have no idea why. I very rarely use them.
@@APMastering 🤷♂️ just like eq and compressors, there are a lot out there
Raytown Productions already did one. TLDW: There's only one algorithm to clip audio. The only thing that separates clippers is how they (mathematically) handle aliasing.
Well explained! Keep busting those Graphics Designer companies lol - They only release same plugins with different designs and re-sell.
I don't want to beat up on them too much, because I quite like some of the graphic and I think they are talented making plugins that dont crash (unlike me haha) but yeah for the most part I don't think you need 50 modelling plugs
Can you send d the link to your free compressor?
I thought I had it but I downloaded a Specteral Compressor.
email compressor@apmastering.com
email compressor@apmastering.com
I’d love to hear your opinions about distortion plugins
this is one of the most requested. will probably do this at some point soon
OoooK!!!
Now you're talking...
Cool!!!!
Can't tell which is which but:
2:25 I prefer A
3:03 I prefer A
8:06 I prefer B
thanks for your assessment. i'll reveal in part 3
@@APMastering I hear your video on my studio with expensive monitors on a price range 6k and i dont hear any different between A-B
These videos are a valuable resource, even if they do give me immense buyer's remorse for all the fancy plug-ins I have bought.
I've even heard pro engineers admit that they get a lot of this stuff because clients who don't know any better like seeing fancy graphics and flashing lights.
Steve albini use to patch things in with flashy lights that didn't do anything in the mix, just to get clients to think their bad ideas had been addressed in the mix lolol
what do you think of reverbs?
many cool ones. there's classic implementations that get recycled but some cool ones
Is that NIN - 1,000,000 for the drums track?! 😀 Anyway, you're convincing me I don't need another plugin, thank you! I might get back to making music, instead of chasing mythical dangling carrots. Let's hear it for the scientific method 👏👏👏👏👏👏
ha ha sounds very similar but no, this is some psych rock track I made like over a decade ago when I was into lofi mid 60s sounding garage and psych rock. I don't have that much demo material because I dont only need permission, it also need to be copyright free, so a lot of my own music I can even use for copyright claim reasons from the publisher.... ruclips.net/video/miS4ugWLS1A/видео.html
@@APMasteringgotta cover your tracks. Many youtubers use what projects they've worked on and may or may not have it written on their contracts to let them use their copyrighted works in the youtuber's videos. Makes you wonder about copyright strikes.
Nice one fella.
So maybe the biggest question shouldn't be do all these plugins sound alike...maybe it should be is there that much difference between hardware pieces...I mean only so much u can do with a circuit??
there's a fair amount if variation
Yeah there's heaps of variation in hardware. Much more than I hear with digital plugins.
I think it's just if you like a specific compression flavour on an instrument and don't want to get technical learning the exact gain reduction curves etc., you just grab a particular compressor during a session because it's fast and easy.
what if you knew what to dial in on a powerful compressor and you have it set up on a shortcut? I guarantee that's quicker and easier.
@@APMasteringsounds scary though 🤪 even if it's possible to replicate every possible compressor with your plugin, I can't imagine how I could possibly learn and understand it like you do - and link in my mind your extra dials to how it actually sounds. Maybe some in depth course?
I know how to setup Pro-C2 to my liking but this one is just above the limits of my current understanding or perception haha
I'm interested to know: would you say that the (original) hardware compressors *are* different to each other? I presume yes?
yes because of their limitations. when you remove these limitations through wider ranges and features achievable through digital technology, one compressor could do everything
I love your analysis. I wish I could use just my analog chain with ZL for surgical EQ moves and AP Mastering for fine tuning gain reduction. Keep going my friend ❤
nice, really cool you are using the comp despite the insane parameter ranges 😄
@@APMastering Yep. I think it's a good idea to check your app version and compare with my beloved analog compressors: Shadow Hills MC, API2500. Are you from Germany? Greetings from Luxembourg ❤️
I'm originally from the UK but I moved to Germany when I was around 20
@@APMastering Alright come at the studio any time. I offer you nice beers 🍻
1:30 this is exactly what I wanted to type under the previous vid but I couldn't put the idea in words! Very interesting vid
thanks!
@@APMastering8:51 I think A is the anolog modelling plugin but the difference is waay smaller than I thought it'd be.
i was sceptical of your point at first because of your clickbatey way of describing the problem with big words like 'scam', but i think we're quite similiar after all. i also rarely use a different compressor than pro-c2 and rarely a different eq than pro-q. just like you i just use a tool that can do a lot of stuff without lot of setup instead of hoping some limited analog emulation plugin somehow does something that exceeds the things i can do with the cleanly implemented plugins
thanks, yeah i am adding some drama for engagement, i'm trying to find the right balance, i think scam was a bit strong ha ha
well done. love it. as an owner of 1million compressor plugins i just wish id seen this 20 years ago :-)
Really enjoying these vids… Back to the eq vids you did… last few mixes I’ve done, rather than putting my usual plugs where they usually go, such as the uad neve for the low shelf on kick drum, etc, I’ve just been doing it all on Kirchoff. Kirchoff even has the shapes for the curves that mimic the Neve’s, apis, etc.. and ya know what? the mixes still sound exactly like me! My cpu is happier too. Eye opening.
nice one! I've never actually used Kirchoff EQ but from the screenshots it basically just looks like fab filter but cheaper, which is cool. I bought FF many years ago when pro q 2 just came out and have been just using that since
Paul Third has been praising Kirschoff for years,. LOL
@@APMasteringoh I’d bet you’d have some thoughts 🤷♂️ like the ability to dyn-EQ freqs (sidechained to other freqs) & the extra-high bit rate option.
But yes it has a collection of eq curves that mimic classic hardware curves (without the saturations).
@@APMastering yeah FF and Kirchoff are quite similar.. the dynamic section in Kirchoff is a lot better, and I like the way the frequency balance is displayed in the graphic too. The pre-made eq curves (neve, api etc) you can select are a nice bonus too.
@@APMasteringKirchhoff eq blows ProQ3 out the water. It's if Fabfilter and Melda had a baby, then fed it steroids until adulthood.
Great video again, debunking marketting disinformation is very important, especially for beginners.
However, I will have to partly disagree again : having "box tone" and/or saturation built in, bundled with your compressor can be a time saviour since often, you should know it's there, it's tastefully tuned, and it should sound good most of the time. But, indeed, everyone, and especially beginers, should learn first to mix with standard/clean eq + standard/clean eq + seperate saturation. And claiming you prefer this method anyway cause it gives you full control is perfectly valid.
That being said, I'll ask again my question about interfaces : do you think different interfaces allow you to work faster and/or more easily ? I'm not talking about pretiness or skeumorphism but more about size and position pf knobs and faders as well as their scale and calibration.
Hey thanks for the comment.
I agree that bundling and explicitness of features is personal preference... some people like one knob compressors. I think this comes down to an "ignorance is bliss" type thing. Many people dont want to look behind the curtain, they just want the result. Like, this seems to be anyone who goes to a supermarket, looks at the front of the box/picture and decides they want it and puts it in their basket. I NEVER EVER do this. I MUST read all of the ingredients and if there is an E number, I MUST google exactly what it is, otherwise I will not be able to eat the food. This may be OCD, and this may be extreme, but this is my style.
RE your interface question, not sure I saw your original time you asked. I do believe that a well designed interface is much faster and nicer to work with. Even fab filter annoys me with its stupid moving control panel and there are many plugins which I find horrendous to use, probably the worst offenders are skeuomorphic EQs, that's just silliness. But in terms of general interface design, I think interface design is so important, it may be more important from a design perspective than the DSP itself (providing it still sounds good). That said, I don't think the interface on my plugin is particularly good. If I could be bothered, I'd improve it. I think there is LOTS of room for completely average every day standard DSP to be repackaged with a pristine high quality interface and I would pay hundreds of dollars for it. Since it doesn't exist, I will design it myself and sell it. But I think I'll need help as my graphic design skills are poor.
how do i use comp view?
its dual mono, you need to send one channel into the left and one into the right
Hi do you have the AAX version, ill like to test out
nope it's a crappy gatekept format
do you have any finished mixes or masters u made that i can listen to
many thousands. a good starting point is probably my discogs page, that has some amount of stuff ive done
@@APMastering kinda wanna hear your recent stuff any links on youtube or spotify
most music i master, i don't know when it's released or what it's called. the latest thing i've released musically is probably shackles by these hidden hands. ive not released music for a few years
What about release envelopes?????? That's so much of a compressor's sound. I think you kind of missed an opportunity to talk about feedback vs feed-forward topologies, you mentioned feedback but most compressors are "either-or" AFAIK. If you enjoy infinitely flexible tools, good for you, I need as few controls as possible to keep me focused without getting stuck tweaking parameters. The same can be said for avoiding purchasing too many plugins...
the difference in feedback and feedfoward is just routing, there's design reasons for using feedback originally. i show feedback in the video. i discuss why i'm not concentrating on release in part 1 🙂
what about harmonics? valve modelling and transformer models
I discuss this in the video. I don't mention transformers, but I love transformers.
@@APMastering we all love non linear 😄
I love the idea of this. I actually noticed this on my own regarding EQ plugins. So I am deff with you on this quest!
Although here there are a lot of stuff that I feel don't fully make sense :
- Nobody implied (or should really imply) that the UAD Distressor or the Elysia compressor would sound much better than a free clean compressor with a lot of options. You setup the UAD to act in a very clean way and the Elysia is supposed to be extremely clean. Which in the box doesn't make a lot of sense, maybe but in the hardware world does (or did when they were designed). They are not more fancy, they just emulate compressors, that here were setup in a very clean way (among many ways they could be setup, especially the Distressor).
- The different typologies do mean quite a bit, especially when it comes to circuit design. Not everything has to be seen as a user perspective imho :). Varimu vs VCA does still tell quite a bit. We now know, from experience, from listening and because of the physical properties of the elements in charge of the GR, that a Delta-Mu compressor may really struggle to be as quick as a DBX 160VU or even an 1176 FET style set to the fastest settings. It doesn't invite use the "guess" the sound quality of a compressor. It tells us how it works. Different typologies have no other function than to tell us "it works like this". And from that we can draw conclusion (that should usually be confirmed easily).
- If you care about applying something "quickly" and "specifically". Then that's where these plugins (or hardware) come into play. If you know how they sound, what they do (which you should, it's always good to know what a tool does) then you're good. And putting a Fatso on a track will get you there in 20secs. Instead of putting a compressor, then a distortion unit, then something to tame the highs etc... It's not "unspecified mystery", it's just part of what the tool is and it's our job to know what they do. Nothing is hidden, everything is there for us to hear/analyze if we need. Although it's true you can't turn off their specific sonic imprint.
- I don't get the last example. You can get that sound with your compressor, some EQ and distortion. Why would you expect an API 2500 emu (done a long time ago) to do that? Since, like most engineers we know our tool, we know that the 2500 (even the hardware) don't distort like that (because they are VCAs which are usually designed to be fast and clean). To get that sound you could have probably got it from an 1176 (high ratio) style and some distortion plugin.
It's a bit like showing you could draw the Italian flag with red, green and white paint, and hoping to do that with just purple paint and say "see, I can't do it with purple". If you know what I mean.
It's not having free plugins and a plan that beats out analog plugins. It's having a plan, period, and knowing what you are doing that beats out anything else. As always, skills, clear intent/vision and aesthetic taste will beat anything else.
Very interesting approach tho'! Loved it!
well maybe I can do even more AB comparisons in part 3. I haven't actually filmed it yet, im leaving it open to get ideas from comments, I only had the first 2 planned originally with the 3rd open.
In terms of typologies, I can make an opto compressor with a VCA or a tube or a FET or another transistor. I don't know why calling it "opto" tells you much. I could have a really crappy sounding transistor circuit and a really great sounding tube circuit. We can hint at what we might expect but you can't know the sound based upon me just mentioning that it uses diodes. If you think you can, then I could just easily design a tube compressor with some diodes that dont actually do much and then just call it a diode bridge compressor
in my experience, using explicit processing is quicker for me. if using bundled features is quicker for you then go for it!
The last example is supposed to flip the burden from my plugins emulating the modelling plugin to the modelling plugin emulating my plugin. sure, the API doesn't have that character, but the point is, my plugin has any character I want and I don't need to buy 20 different ones and try out which one is best
@@APMastering Good points.
Although you said : "I could just easily design a tube compressor with some diodes that don't actually do much and then just call it a diode bridge compressor". Yes and if he diodes are participating in the gain reduction circuit then, it's a diode compressor.. So the typologies tell us which components will affect the gain reduction, and so telling us in advance the potential speed and profile of that GR.
Just as you already know, using tubes in a compressor doesn't make it instantly a delta-mu (if the tube do not participate in the gain reduction per say).
Yes of course, it's up to taste. In session, I rarely have the time to tell the artist "wait I am gonna load 5 plugins" when I can load one and go quickly without loosing the musical flow. Same sometimes when mixing (except when patching hardware, I use that as an excuse for ears break hehe).
Ha yes totally got you now, indeed that makes complete sense!
Thumbs up for the work and efforts!
I've just tested today the pro c-2 with a sine wave. And found out none of the knobs does what it saids on it ! - like every thing is connected to every thing in a weird way!!
Also the numbers are not accurate either!!!
What can be the reason for that ?
(Also the studio one compressor acts funny)
yeah C2 has completely inaccurate time constants.
as I say in this video, you can do anything you want. you can make your compressor play a Beatles song if condition X is met
@@APMastering thank for the reply!
can you recommend an accurate compressor ? One that the knobs do what thay supposed to do, and the numbers are real.
Is the AP-comp is accurate like this ?
it's not necessarily that some are "accurate" because it has to do with the definition itself. but c2 isn't even accurate to itself 😂
some people define attack phase as 2/3 of the total gain reduction but it's open for definition
@@APMastering yea, but even the trashhold (which supposed to be absolut number) ist what its supposed to be.
How can i trust my mixes with an inaccurate compressor??
What are your thoughts about it?
I'd love to see what a professional like you think on the topic!
i don't mix with numbers so i normally done care but its just funny how out of whack the time constant can be
"A" had a more rad low end so I'm guessing it was the LA2A?
very interesting, seems a couple of people guessed that way
The emulations are made for a reason ...and that reason is geting the sound and the behavior of the unit in 1 click and some times as mixers thats what we looking for. Having a clean versatile comp is a must need tool i agree but saying that emulations are scam i dont agree with that .. the only scam they doing is not adding good oversampling wich brings a lot of aliasing to the signal ...
why do you want the sound of the original?
@@APMastering Bc they give you that signature sound on some instruments and genres.
USE YOUR DAMN EARS.
EAR WAX REMOVAL
Im going to book my appointment.
I actually have to listen to reference material for a whole session after doing this before working, it changes the high end response so much
Man, it felt so good hearing this. Nothing beats learning the stock compressor, understanding what does what, using it for the goal you want to achieve and then adding whatever else independently. I'm just a hobbyist, but love the message of your videos.
thanks. the only thing is that stock compressors may not have the flexibility of APComp but otherwise the EQs and saturation etc is fine
Zynaptiq intensity is really a different kind of "compressor," same with zynaptiq unfilter about eqs.
You trully did an amazing job with these videos!
Greetings from Brazil
thanks!
Distressor A, Elysia B, LA 2A B.Can't wait to see pt 3. Thx for your work!!
would have been more impressive before i published the answers😂
@@APMastering Haven't seen that yet, but seriously, it's so close. From where i sit, in a mix, these differences are so tiny. What is impressive indeed is the stuff you put out!
So, in short, I think you're correct. But at the point where you're modeling alllll this stuff I wonder how much you gain by having a quick workflow compared to spending a bunch of time dialing all this in. Sometimes ya just want something that sounds like an 1176 in 5 seconds, ya know?
It takes me longer to get the sound im looking for with a limited feature set plugin like an analogue modelling compressor, because I have to guess first which emulation might get close to what I want, then try it out, if it doesn't work, then I need to find another and play about and waste time with a bunch of different plugins that might not even do what I want anyway, especially for electronic music sound design. VS, simply load a couple of decent full featured plugins and get exactly what I want straight away.
@@APMastering fair enough I suppose that’s preference at that point. I tend to work more quickly by just choosing a flavor and moving on.
@@APMastering You probably wouldn’t have to guess if you had the real world experience to base your selection on. Most experienced engineers use a specific device or plugin because they already know it provides the sound they’re looking for quickly… if you don’t already know before you’ve opened the plugin then you’re just hoping for the best. Like Keenan said, if you know you want the sound of an 1176, there’s no way that dialling in similar settings on a generic compressor plugin is going to get you there faster than loading up a decent 1176 emulation that is simple and has easy to replicate settings you know have worked on your source many times before.
I've been using Elysia +Mastering+ compressor for a while now and feel like I could PROBABLY recognize it out of a lineup BUT... I have no idea what it sounds like at 7dB of gain reduction... FOR ME, it falls apart around 5 or 6dB.
If you're gonna push it that hard (without Warm circuit, or feed forward, or auto-fast, or soft clip...and with a pretty slow attack) why not just use the mixing version of it?
some people think that's not hard enough, some people think its too hard. I just did "something". I don't know what people use these plugins for exactly. I never use them. I think they are all uninteresting.
@@APMastering +I+, personally, use Elysia Alpha b/c it has a fairly specific punch that I don't know how to replicate.... Esp. not in the 20 secs that it takes to dial Alpha in.
++I don't doubt you at all++, I've just not seen anybody use a mastering compressor for that much crushing...esp when there's a mixing version available.
I'd say that for the LA-2A test that B is UAD.
cool. a couple of people guessing A, so I guess that's a good sign that it's split ha ha
@@APMastering 4sure
I was with you on the EQ but not so much on the compressors. It's the dynamic behaviour that counts, and yes, of course you should be able to closely model much of it where digital emulations are concerned. I am not 100% sure that's true with analogue implementations - some will probably be easy to emulate and others perhaps not so much. It's sad that all this stuff is not😮 regarded as the basics of the trade any more.
well I do agree it is more complex, I discuss that in the video, but did you hear a massive difference between the audio examples I gave here?
On my speakers the LA2A example had muffled highs on the B section. The cymbals were the only difference that was extreme to me and i preferred the sound of the A.
nice, thanks for the feedback! I will reveal the answers in part 3!
I agree with the main point of your video. However I want to point out that many engineers have these plug-in developed so they can have a similar workflow to the consoles they're used to working on.
If I'm a home studio artist who doesn't have the knowledge you have, and I want my drums to knock, it is much more simple and convenient to use a 1176 emulation rather than going through all the phases (EQ, compression, distortion,etc..). I agree that all compressors achieve gain reduction, but those "flavors" may be something we enjoy.
I'd say aspiring producers and engineers should learn the basics and learn the stuff included in their DAW, before trying to imitate CLA, Andrew Scheps or Jaycen Joshua. Those tools can be included once one understand what they are doing and why they are doing it
I think the whole "30 years on a Neve -> now I'm using a plugin" is kind of a niche market
I'd personally never use an 1176 on drums. When I do analogue/console mixes, I use an 1176 on bass and vocals the most
I agree that education is paramount, which is why I put together my courses and want to expand my lineup. If you don't have the know-how, it actually doesn't matter what you do, using a modelling plugin or a chain or whatever, nothing matters if you don't know what you are doing because you are just throwing darts in the dark. And if you are doing that, it doesn't matter if you have expensive carbon fibre or cheap plastic darts.
@@APMastering interesting, on bass, I prefer LA3A...I dont think I have ever used a 1176 on bass, but I do use limiters more than compressors for bass guitar (depending on the context of mix
I feel the same way with synths. You pay for one hard wired pony. Going modular is very expensive so... same story. Good soft synths can sound as good as HW.
i agree but i like hardware so spend lots of money on it
Sería interesante tener una lista de predefinidos en el compresor para "emular" ciertos plugins y/o limitaciones obligadas en el plugin que te permitan trabajar más enfocado.... Aunque, iría en contra de todo lo mencionado, al fin de todo, solo deseas hacer música... Aunque, nunca está de menos. Prácticamente, ese compresor podría ser la Victorinox de los plugins. ❤
Gracias. Creo que en algún momento podría crear una versión aún más avanzada de este complemento y, en cuyo caso, probablemente tendría ajustes presets.
Subbed
The trouble I have with the way you're measuring and comparing is I don't think it grasps it all. You can take two different 1176's or two of anything really, and while they will sound similar, they will sound different. Some retain a better low end for example. I don't think your line there captures that.
I discuss in this video how a single line doesn't capture that and we would need at least 3 dimensions to an analyser plugin, but that its impossible to do because of psychical limitations
Great video, and i agree with your general premise that most comps are alike...but some have a distinct sonic character that you want, in one plugin. Fir instance, i thought the LA2A sounded better on the drums tgan your 3 plugins did (and yes, they sounded quite good...but you had to use 3 to get what LA2S did with 1). I think it really all cones down to "how you want to work" and hiw mych control you want to have. For me, Id rather have a DBX 160, a LA2A and the SSK master bus comp, and use thise quickly, ad needed, rather than configure multiple plugs to do what each of those do. Because, ss i said, its all a matter if how each person wants to work!
i think once i've added distortion and eq to my plugin, this kind of point will become moot 😎
I agree with what he is talking about in the first two videos, but sadly even though I would love to use it, it crashes Studio One and Mixbus. Didn't try it in Luna yet and probably want. I'll just wait till somehow the bugs are worked out as I would pay for a compressor with this much flexibility. So for now, I now which plugins to grab for the process I need them to do.
sorry about the crash, seems to be a bug on windows. i'm going to get a new version for windows soon
I came to hear the apologies but got to see the topologies instead.
The Fairman TMC uses the side chain voltage to control the Bias of the valves rather than classic volume attenuation. Different sound again.
but wait, you just described exactly how a vari mu works
@@APMastering Yes exactly. But don't forget that pesky Manley trademark.
Couldn’t you just run the signal through REW to plot the waterfall diagram?
no that won't provide any useful information i don't think. try it and let me know what you get
gud dat, lookin forward to part 3
Great video. Just to be clear. Are your tests tracking amplitude changes alone or do the charts encompass frequency response too?
only amplitude. watch part 2!
I know this video was about compression, but I want to discuss clipping. Specifically the clippers your barber used because that’s a damn nice haircut you have.
ha ha, not sure if you are joking, I was actually not that happy with it as I thought he chopped too much off
@@APMasteringI am 100% serious. I think it looks pretty good.
thanks!! 😀😀
Do you think the AP compressor could have a feature where you essentially "profile" different vintage/classic compressors? That could be great to use w.r.t testing how different EQ and Saturation settings (+other variables that change based on the model) compare to the free option!
Also having a super powerful transparent compressor acting like a "profiling compressor" where you load in different models could pretty much make the compressor market obsolete hahahaha
it's a good idea in theory but very complex in practice. i can do something which goes in the direction of X but to accurately "profile" another compressor as a built in feature is enormously difficult
@@APMastering ah alright! It's be cool if it's possible some day haha.
I don’t give likes often, and it ain’t no pay but here ya go haha.
Luckily I didn’t go down a hefty spending spree, buying all those plugin bundle. Ye I doo have some but I don’t know why I should buy more.
I never fully understood why even to begin with. „They sound much cleaner or have that warm tone“ they tell you but idk stock plugins did it too. And it’s exactly this misters of not knowing which plugin does what, which steered me away from it.
I don’t want to speculate on getting a sound, randomly, I want to know how I get there with the single ingredients.In other parts of life I often run into things and ask my self, why does it do that, why is it this way. And I want to understand it so badly, it sometimes ruins my whole understanding of the whole picture. I can’t wrap my head around a concept of a single piece is missing. And this compression mystique is the same. It somehow ruins my understanding of it and draws me away from the reason why and use of it. It blocks my flow, because my mind lounges for the whole concept, or rather the control of all variables.
8:47 - My guess : A = UAD LA-2A
Thank you for dispelling myths
You need to pull up the make up gain on the API ❤
So I have to say this... A few months back Kiive audio made a software version of the Distressor.... It looked just the same with the distressor pots... But those pots are patented by Empirical Labs and they I assume didn't like it... So a few months down the line Kiive which was now being marketed by Plugin Alliance changed the look of the compressor and made the pots black in colour and started calling it a FET compressor... but the sound was just the same.... Moral of the story it's not FET or VCA or Vari MU... They are all digital compressors.... Having said all of that apart from Unisum I really like the technology behind the pro audio DSM compressor
unisum is a very advanced comp. I'd hope that there was more that went into that distressor than just graphics but yeah, the most important aspect of it will be attack time and high ratio
DMG TrackComp2 has basically no GUI and just sliders and generally speaking is a great sounding and very flexible comp
That particular compressor doesn't use a very complex pick up pattern,
But it's entirely possible (and quite common) to use circuit modelling to emulate the desired pick up pattern.
Older plugins won't be doing this though it's newer research
WDFs and quadric surfaces are my favourite techniques to emulate an analog compressor.
You can use circuit emulation to model the entire board.
Pickup pattern certainly matters a lot in these designs. For the circuit to work you have to simulate how for example, a FET would react to any specific electrical impulse.
A simple FET can be modelled as:
ID=k(VGS−Vth)2forVGS>Vth
And then iteratively solve the nonlinearity for each port.
“Yes they all sound a bit different, but if one sounds much better than the other, you should tell which one is original and which one was matched to it” - dear AP Mastering, this is not a wine testing competition, one will choose that particular compressor, which difference is pleasing to his ears. Good that you hear this difference. Also you still compare plugins btw, when in your video will be real stuff?
if one is much better, let me know which sounds better. i might do hardware at some point
@@APMastering «better» is not proper word here. What applies more for your taste is better in your terminology. You’ve probably heard about NEw York compression, small things matter, they are part of big picture. And you call this differences “scam”
@@APMastering p.s. listened on a speakers. And definitely A sample is modeled optocompressor, while second one would be used by me as NY compression bus
BRO I WAS JUST SAYING HOW I THOUGHT YOUR HAIR LOOKED SO COOL AND THEN I NOTICED IT WASNT ACTUALLY A "GOOD" HAIRCUT BUT IT REALLY SUITED YOU
that being said nice cut bro
yeah i'm not 100% happy with it but it will do. thanks!
10/10 mate - thanks for the videos!
Respectfully disagree. Once you know your plugins and become familiar with their responses there is no 'mystery distortion' and unexpected results as stated, it's the opposite. They are basically presets, which you familiarise with to achieve specific results without having to create a whole chain. If anyone hears a raw vocal, we can all already predict and expect what putting an 1176 on, will do to it, vs creating the a blank slate chain each time
an 1176 works on all vocals equally well? what if you want more drive?
A simple thing...
One emulation Plugin, against 3 of free stuff ;-)
Means, less computer resources used...
The other thing is...
Simplicity... after a while, you know you Plugins ( Comps and EQs ) and you easily throw this or that on a channel..
Personally i am at a point, where i have enough Plugins which give characteristics to a signal...
Now i am only interested in problem solver plugins and there... the market is thin...
the modelling plugins can be very resource heavy. you can maybe have 20 stock plugins for 1 modelling plugin and use the same resources
@APMastering
Okay... and why these modeling plugins are so resource heavy, sometimes ?
After your words... the 3 of the stock plugins must use the same amount of resources as the Teletronics, to get the same sound when the 3 Plugins sound equal...
More audio resources mean more happens in audio... dense structure, or whatever... i don't think that the brands code nonsense to make plugins bigger, for marketing...
Again, i have enough plugins to form a sound, and do not download the AP plugin cause of the words... "Requires skill and precision to use properly."
Is that intuitive and / or musical when you have to think about the settings fot a long time ?
I throw a specific comp on a track and in 20 seconds max. i have the sound, which i want... a part ( one variable ) of the overall sound of a single track..
Simple and easy...
Simplicity is sometimes more than infinite possibilities and controls...
But respect for the good marketing strategy of creating these vids ( EQ and comp ) and coding the free plugin, which people can download from your site ;-)
A is La2a
thanks for the guess, ill reveal in part 3
When does the £129 AP pro compressor come out ?
I am pondering a paid version if I can make it mindblowing but at this point im just happy to have released a free plugin and people seem to be actually using it and having fun with it
@@APMastering
I can recommend some literature for you.
"Digital Dynamic range compression design - a tutorial and analysis"
It's a paper that stacks up the most common digital designs and measures which are the most accurate and transparent topologies.
It's a super simple paper though, you might already have those parts sussed.
if you want to dabble in more advanced algorithms, check out WDF compression research papers
If I could turn back Time, I would probably just get DMG Track Comp and an SSL Bus compressor.
One compressor type not discussed is PWM, which the PYE Limiter uses. Pretty neat stuff! Also, GML 8900 and the MDWDRC2 are pretty unique.
isn't pye vari mu? PWM sounds like pulse width modulation to me which doesn't seem to be anything to do with compressors, that's how you dim LEDs etc
if im missing something, please do provide a link, I'd be super interested to take a look!
@@APMastering yes, pwm is an acronym for pulse width modulation.
My experience with posting third-party links is that RUclips will shove it in the spam folder.
oh ok. i'm puzzled what kind of circuit that is then. will have a look later when i'm at home
You didn't show that different compressors all sound the same, you only showed that you can program a compressor, that can sound like all the others. That's a huge difference. Nice job though.
when did i say they all sounded the same though?
@@APMastering Fair point though. But then where's the scam? Unlike with the EQ scam it totally make sense to have different compressors and it's not a 'scam' IMO. BTW maybe you could model all famous compressors with yours and save them as presets?
the scam is the marketing and intentionally limited parameter ranges. but "scam" is super over the top anyway. It's just people were asking for a "compressor scam" video so I used that format with the intention of doing something educational and entertaining
@@APMastering Yeah I remember one of them was me.
yeah i'm just saying the truth and i can dress it up as a fun conspiracy but im just going to show the reality whether or not that disappoints
First Was Lopher
not entirely sure what that means but thanks for making the first comment 😝
@@APMastering it means I commented first and I'm busy watching you disturbing 🤣🤣
😎
A test tone lacks the dynamics of music content.
that's why i have audio examples
does all of this information apply to hardware compressors? Are they even more of a rip off?
they are not a ripoff because you are paying for high quality components, knobs, switches a case, power supply etc. But if you are looking for magical sound quality, there is no magic.
@@APMastering are you saying there is no difference in sound?
Edit: No sound that you can't get from your free comp + distortion + EQ plugins
these videos are good to for who dont know those things, but in reality, specially in a mastering situation there are more things to consider
1: still there are differences, little audible from youtube that is a shit for audio...
2 most important: if a piece does 3 things in one move is cool, i call for a piece because i know what it does in a more rapid actions, and in mastering a rapid (re)action is very important, just who do mastering as job knows what im talking about, if you have to do too much things and think too much you can easily loose some fresh prospective, that in mastering is very important, and very often means "better choice" that means "sounds better"
3: way to work and tools to have is a veeeeery personal things, for example, if just a gui inspire someone more, why not? inspiration helps a lot
cheers
I'd say:
1. RUclips isn't as shit as people say. It's not great but a lot of people blame RUclips for stuff and claim it's hiding the finer qualities or whatever when actually it's not all THAT bad. There are difference between the comparisons and I discuss that in the video.
2. I dont exactly know what you mean but my day job is mastering. I've been a mastering engineer for 16 years. If you mean you find it important to have low amounts of friction in getting the sound you want, I 100% agree. I hate friction and work very fast and if I'm slowed down by something I get annoyed. So depending on what you meant there, I think I agree ,but I don't know how it applies to my video
3. sure
After listening to the AB a few times what I notice while listening on my phone is A seems to contain more high frequencies, brighter, maybe transient distortion? I’m not familiar with either plug in but I’m going to say B is the LA2A. Even if it’s not I prefer it over A.
ok thanks for the guess! 😀
ok thanks for the guess! 😀
Very interesting. My philosophy with choosing a compressor, is that I'm lazy, and the fewer knobs, the better! RVox & CLA-2a are on pretty much everything I do.