INTELLIGENT OCTOPUS GO vs OCTOPUS FLUX? Which is the best summer tariff?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- In this video I discuss which is the best spring and summer tariff from Octopus. Is it Intelligent Octopus Go or Octopus Flux? I compare various scenarios to see how it may affect your earnings. Let me know in the comments what you found. Enjoy!
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Thanks Dan, I've just run our actual data from 2023 and 2024 using our real average import and export rates (which the Octo-Aid app helpfully calculates) and it looks like Intelligent Go is the better option with all but the most modest EV usage, especially as the export rate is now a fixed 15p at all times.
It's also probably worth pointing out that in your spreadsheet you assumed that all your Flux EV import would be at off-peak rate. In practice, given this is only 3hrs a night, this would make even a 25%-80% charge, a multi-night activity, or you would need to be plugging in and topping up most times you use the car. Obviously this is doable, but it's a lot less convenient than Intelligent Go which gives at least twice the number of available hrs per night plus additional smart slots.
Appreciate the work you put into this
Thanks for the feedback. Really appreciate it. Yeah, very true on the time slots. The flexibility you get with Intelligent Octopus Go is also a major benefit over Flux and allows you to fully charge in one go quite easily. The 15p export rate really is a game changer for Intelligent Octopus Flux! 👍
@@DanEVSolar7 Ive just moved to IOGo from Go (solely for the 15p export compared to 8p) and the flexibilty of IOgo is actually a mild PITA.
Let me explain. (I have EV, battery, solar)
With Go you get 4 hours at fixed time, which is a 40% charge for my car. So as long as I dont run my car below about 40-50% one nights charge is fine.Its also plenty long enough to fill my 9.5 battery indeed 1-2 hours is usually enough. The fixed times make it very easy, set and forget on battery and charger.
WIth IOGo, although in theory the off peak times are 1130pm to 530am, in practice they've started earlier which means I need to pause my battery at those times or the battery gets discharged to the car as well (and then refills, pointless)
I could automate that pausing with Home Assistant but its a faff and also would likely cost me £150-£200 on devices to make that happen probably years worth of savings. (rasp Pi or s/h PC, wifi, elec to run it 24 x7, etc). Plus lots of feeding and maintenance to keep s/w up to date and if it goes wrong suddenly Ive filled my battery up at peak times and wiped outa months worth of savings.
So, I plug in late at night only once or twice a week and if the savings sessions start before 2330 (which is every time so far) i manually pause my battery until then (battery is import only between 2330 - 0530 and wont discharge at those times)
I know some YTers wax lyrical about these extra sessions but in practice I'm very sceptical you can actually make use of them, theres only so many times you can run the washing machine, tumble dryer dishwasher etc especially if the battery can handle those.
Great video Im a low EV user about 180kWh a month but will be sticking with GO as when I do charge my car I need a full charge and get that with the 6+ hours of IO Go
Thanks Terry. Sounds good. Sounds like that is the best solution for you. 👍
Thanks!
This was interesting Dan, thank you. As a brand new EV family owner, I have been debating what to do but have initially swapped to Intelligent Go. We do pretty low mileage however but as we have a 21kWh battery I’ve started charging overnight and then exporting excess the following evening. I think I need to see how the EV usage pans out because we love the car and cheap running costs so much that we are probably going to do more miles than we would otherwise just because!
Totally agree with this. We often take the Tesla out vs my wife’s golf, just because it’s so much cheaper to run (and nicer to drive)! 😆 Good luck with Intelligent Octopus Go, I’m sure it will be great for you.
Good video, I did similar sums per month for April to September. June was the only month where flux beats intelligent go for my usage where as last year without the 15p export is was massively beneficial. It’ll be interesting to see if any of the rates change at the start of April and make a difference
That’s the problem with these videos sometimes. They may only be relevant for a few months before the prices change again. 😆 I agree with what you say though, the 15p export has changed the game.
Hi Dan, thank you for this video.
I have also watched Gary’s and Tim’s videos on the subject. I only have Solar & Battery (AIO), no EV yet.
I initially thought Flux (summer) & Agile (winter), however after some research I am going with Agile (import) & Outgoing Fixed 15p (Export), Agile was 7.5p average over last year. (Summer and Winter).
If you have not used these two apps yet I highly recommend them.
1. Inverter - by Richard Russell
2. Octoprice
Within Octoprice under Octopus Tools there is a new beta Tariff Hopping. If you put in your tariff and then add one at a time, ones your looking to move to, it shows you the saving based on your meter readings from last year. It has loads of other very good states, and I recommend it very highly. It could also confirm you spreadsheets and Math.
Thanks for this. I’ve used a similar app called OctoCompare in the past. Agile does look quite appealing and is a tariff I keep debating as costs fall. Certainly one I’m keeping an eye on! 👍
I am low EV and low export (because I lose the sun at around 4.00pm) so I think I will stay on my current Octopus Flux tariff. Thank you for showing us that the differences are really marginal depending upon individual consumption times.
No problem. Hopefully it helped your decision.
Interesting, as you said, a surprising result of how similar the tariffs are.
I have to do my own comparison of staying on Agile or going back to Flux from probably April when I turn the heat pump off. I suspect it’ll be Flux as I do have a large solar array and export quite a lot, but I’ll have to interpolate some data as I only got my export MPAN in August last year.
One comment on the scenarios, with Flux I don’t thinl its worth charging overnight even though some of the options showed that was profitable on paper. Once you add about 10% AC to DC conversion loss, it actually loses money to charge overnight as the rates are so similar. Only time it’d be worth to charge overnight would be if it was a very low solar day the next day and you’d end up grid drawing in the Flux peak period.
Yeah, I agree, I didn't charge overnight last year and probably wouldn't this year either if I decided to switch to Flux. By April, the sun does a really good job of topping the battery up anyway.
Unfortunately the DNO will not allow me to have a 2nd Powerwall 2 because its an AC Battery but Powerwall 3 which is due out end of this year will be a DC Battery so I can have as many as I want unless vehicle to house systems take over which sound terrific.
Hi Dan - thanks for the vlog - very interesting. One question - you claim that the export rate for octopus intelligent go is 15p but mine is 8p and everywhere I look states 8p - can you point me to the tariffs that are 15p?
I had the same when I changed to Intelligent and had to ask Octopus to change me over, they did back date it
Thank you. I believe the export on Octopus Go is 8p. INTELLIGENT Octopus Go can be combined with the outgoing export tariff, which pays 15p per kWh exported. Sounds like you might be on the normal Go tariff?
Thanks for your reply Dan - I’ve swapped onto the export tariff now so you have saved me some money - much appreciated
Excellent news! This is exactly why I do these videos so it’s great to see your reply. Thanks! 👍
I have and EV, Batt Solar and a heat pump. This winter I have been on the Agile tariff that was quite successful. I use a lot of electric during the cold days with heat pump, and so makes the "fill battery on cheap rate" idea obsolete on very cold days as batt will run out about dinner time. Agile has cheaper rates throughout the day so better for me.
During the summer I will be using the electric scooter more than the car, so I will be on either Flux, or Flux intelligent. Flux intelligent has a tariff for me of 25.22p all day and 33.62p peak rate. Beauty is, the export is exactly the same too! I think this is the way to go if you're not using your EV much.
The full works. 🙂 That’s what makes it really difficult with these videos to cater for every use case. Agile appears to have been really good recently. I’m keeping a close eye on it. An electric scooter sounds like really good fun! 👍
Hi Dan, I was on Flux as don’t have an EV. However after I watched this video and as a comparison I included Octopus Agile (import) & Outgoing fixed 15p (export).
I get the same export rate as you so no comparison needed.
An example of import today 13th April there were 11 slots in the minus, tomorrow most of the day from 00:01 to 16:00 is between minus 4p to 3p
Please have a look and perhaps do a IOG v Agile (2024)
Thanks. I’m keeping a very close eye on Agile and do plan on doing a video at some point. Don’t think it’s worth me switching just yet and would need some automation I think but definitely one to keep an eye on with the prices.
I’m low EV use and high export + G99 so Flux for me. Just need to work out the switch over date from IO + Fixed 15p export. Thanks for the information 😁
No problem. Hopefully it helped. Certainly sounds like Flux is the correct decision for your usage.
Know a CNN lot of people trying to switch to IF but fail, octopus don’t seem to know why we are failing. Still waiting myself will probably have to go to Flux and control my export myself. Shame I’m generate between 2 and 3 times my usage during summer.
For us IOGo is the same as Flux and IOFlux would be better than both by about £100. However I don’t want to give away the control of my 8.2kwh GivEnergy battery. When forced to discharge the battery lasts for two hours, meaning that probably I will be importing at peak rate for one hour. At forced discharge rate, the efficiency of the battery is under 70% and actually it loses money during that time. Also im a bit nervous to start messing about with the system, which at the moment works like a clock.
Staying with IOGo all year round for now.
Great video! From the data you showed, it maybe worth you going on flux for a shorter summer period, say only 4 months. As higher export in the middle of summer and possibly less EV usage if you go on holiday, but not sure if worth the effort of changing for the amount saved.
Thank you! Possibly yes, but like you say, I will almost certainly stick with IOG to save on the hassle of switching.
Great vid Dan 👌 I've some how got the best of both worlds at the moment, I'm on IOG for import and flux for export 😂 it's clearly a mistake that I'm sure they'll catch on to soon, had my solar and battery installed in late December and applied to be on flux, then within the month we went the whole hog and purchased a model x so switched to IOG, was only in Feb the export tariff kicked in so I'm sure it'll catch up soon but till then I won't complain 😂 and I'm glad I'm finally getting to take part in the octopus saving sessions.
Thanks Lee. Haha sneaky! 😂 Definitely the best of both worlds.
Hi Dan, thanks for the video. In the process of planning a system. Currently looking at Intelligent Flux. I do have an EV but it's a company car so the company pays for all my charging and I pay them for personal use. Given that I will get all the EV import money back, does it make sense to charge overnight on Intelligent Flux and then export as much solar as possible during the day and peak times?
Wow you are lucky. 👍 Yes that probably makes the most sense if the EV usage is covered. Hope it works out well for you.
Excellent timing, my issue precisely
Great! Hopefully it helps? 👍
You do not mention if your calculations include force discharging the battery between 4pm and 7pm on Flux rate.
Do not have an EV yet so export on Go is 8p. EV will be V2G excited to see the new Renault 5 has this capability and once Octopus confirm that the car is compatible will be putting down a deposit.
Will be changing to Flux in the next two weeks, not imported anything since last Monday, running ASHP on solar only.
The calculations include some forced discharge between 4-7pm, hence the export calculation price is calculated as halfway between the day rate and the peak rate. The Renault 5 looks great!
Dan, great video as usual.
Quick question - how do you assign a value to any solar which goes in to your battery for payback purposes? When it discharges, if it goes in to the house then the value would be higher than if returned to the grid for an export payment.
Thank you! It’s a good question. I guess you’d have to look at your own stats and work it out from there but I didn’t include that to keep the calculations relatively simple.
Thanks again for an informative vlog. I’ve just switched to Flux from Go. The import tariff came into effect immediately, but it can take up to six weeks to switch the export tariff! Not sure why it takes so long especially as I was already exporting to Octopus. Any ideas?
Thanks. I’m not sure. When I moved, once they sorted out both the import and export tariff the switch was really quick. I’d recommend speaking to them on X/Twitter, if possible, as they always seem to be really responsive and knowledgeable.
Dan, can I ask a question, We went onto Flux after our install (6.4kw solar & 10.2kw battery) mid July last year. We moved to Go in November. Whilst we have an EV, we mainly charge at work so hardly have any EV usage. (Last summer we sometimes charged our Hybrid from excess solar). Since we moved to Go we have only used the off peak to top up the battery every night rather than charge the EV. I don't analyse our usage as much as you do, however I do know that so far this year we have exported more than we have used. My thoughts are regardless of EV charging and sunlight hours we should stay on Go and just keep topping up the battery each night at the cheap rate, would you agree? We will in effect start each evening with a fuller battery as we will be generating into the peak period. Fundamentally our usage will drop and exports increase. I am not sure I have the data to decide that moving back to flux will work out better? I know the angle and size of the array has a lot to play in the numbers... When on Flux from mid July to October our total import was negligible as most days we managed a full charge of the battery. Going back to Flux wont hurt I know, but knowing we are exporting at 15p and importing less and less at 7.5p seems sensible?
Flux will probably work out better if you are not charging an EV but I can certainly see why you would want to stay on IOG and save on the hassle. It depends how much you want to eek the extra payback out of the system I guess?
Hi Dan, I've just had my solar installed and commissioned, we don't have an EV yet, so all excess after charging the home battery (10kw) would be exported, so would you advise to go with Octopus flux?
Flux has the best export rates as Go will only give 8p per kWh. If you have a battery you can force discharge between 4pm-7pm at 28p per kWh this price will be lower from 1st April due to the lower price cap.
The comment above has summed it up pretty well. Flux should work well if you are exporting plenty during the summer and if you don’t have an EV. As I always say though, it’s important to calculate it for your own usage to be sure as every situation is different.
What about checking switch to OVO with 7p cheap and 20p feed in ? Built for BEV. I switched to Octopus but looking at going back.
Definitely keeping an eye on this, but I believe this is only for EV usage and does not cover home usage in the same way the Octopus tariff does? Which would mean I couldn’t fill the battery on a night at a cheap rate.
FYI, one further comment. I changed my opinion and switched to Intelligent Octopus GO import tariff. However, I discovered that this is not compatible with my existing Octopus Flux export tariff and I MUST change to Fixed Export tariff, which pays less. You may wish to factor this into your comparisons.
It is factored in, hence the 15p export rate on Intelligent Go in my calcs.🙂
Your assumptions around battery usage neglect batterty round trip losses
Like I said in the video it’s not an exact science and just designed as a guide. Plus you’d get the losses on every tariff anyway.
Hi Dan Do you have an export restriction from the DNO i.e 3.68Kwh which will restrict what you can export ?
Hi. No I completed a G99 form and was granted up to 5kW for the inverter that I have.
I export 1,500 kWh a year and generate 8.8mwh solar every year and I consume 15 mwh per year as I have 3 ev’s . Do you think octopus go or flux would be best for me ?
Be interested to know why you didn’t consider Intelligent Octopus Flux rather than Flux?
Mostly due to the higher import rate on Intelligent Octopus Flux, which would make the EV charging even more expensive. It may work for some, but for anyone with even moderate EV usage, it probably isn't for them, despite the higher export rates.
Intelligent being allowed to join the 15p export tariff has killed flux imo - the export is only meaningfully higher for 3 hrs on flux and given DNO limitations for me is worth £2.00 per day - but the flexibility and money saved for longer cheaper EV chargjng far outweighs this. I imagine they will change the tariffs soon and our 15p will be reduced😢
Yeah it has certainly tipped it in favour of Intelligent Octopus Go for me, since last year. Everything seems to be changing all the time at the moment.
I used your Octopus referral link but I didn't get any Credit. Do you mind sharing the referral code please? Thanks so much
Thank you. I’ve included the link below. You may just need the Dawn-snail-241 part.
share.octopus.energy/dawn-snail-241
Thank you :) @@DanEVSolar7
It's asking foe - Enter your friend's email address, personal link or code below to apply a referral?
Hi. If you use this link below, it should allow you to sign up directly through that link hopefully. If it just needs a code, it might just need the dawn-snail-241 part. Thank you in advance! Really appreciate it.
share.octopus.energy/dawn-snail-241