Gun Gripes
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- This one may ruffle some feathers. We discuss the usefulness of tactical shotguns overall and give our opinions on their use.
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"Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of $hit from your opponent and throw that $hit on the floor" ~Clint Smith
YES!!!!! Epic quote!! Clint Smith is a legend.
and your going to have to clean that shit up with a shovel.
you're allowed to say shit on the internet dude
You beat me to this quote
@@hoorayimhelping3978 Thanks for your concern :-)
“Tactical” shotgun is always better than NO shotgun.
Yes, I have 3
Amen brother
Pair that up with buckshot and you are a lethal force.
I have handguns and rifles, should I get a 12Ga shogun with 18 to 20" barrel?
@@ChaohsiangChen That depends on your needs/wants and where you live. However a 12ga that length would be great all-in-one. (Get one see if you like it, I bet you will)
Nothing sends a gang of home intruders running quite like seeing their buddy who just climbed through the window immediately coming back out the window as human spaghetti.
Pfftt human spaghetti hahaha
"Mama-mia, he's marinating in his own ragu! Lets-a get out-ta here!"
@@magnanimus9692 brooooooo.....that comment is officially my favorite piece of internet for today rofl
@@backwoodsmaineiac8897 lol I'm honored :P
@@magnanimus9692 best comment I've seen in awhile 🤣
@@magnanimus9692 in the words of a famous plumber "Ma... Ma... Marrrrio???"
33 years in law enforcement. I worked a few years as a gang officer so I saw a lot of people who had been shot. Only saw 3 who were shot with buckshot or slugs. They were immediately incapacitated and soon dead. I talked to a lot of people shot with handguns who survived being shot, many who weren’t at all incapacitated.
Worked in a level I Trauma center for 20 years….the most traumatic injury I ever saw was a shotgun.
What about 5.56 ? How'd they fair ?
@@dmgthree6051 I never did work a shooting with a 556 or 223. I worked one w a 7.62x39, and one w a .30-30. Both fatal. Any long gun will do more damage than most handguns.
@@dmgthree6051 I never did work a shooting with a 556 or 223. I worked one w a 7.62x39, and one w a .30-30. Both fatal. Any long gun will do more damage than most handguns.
@@darbyheavey406"buy a shotgun"
-JB
"Are Tactical Shotguns Useless?" Not when someone is breaking into your house.
Only if your trap shooting,,do they become Useless
Ask what's on the other side what they think.
Are tactical shotguns useless?
Depends who's holding it.
That pretty much describes anything in life
Right. Put it in the hands of a dumbass or somebody scared its useless. Put that same shotgun in the hands of a determined person and even a browning auto 5 will seem like hell.
A Browning auto 5 will put in work man!
Just like a woman
Hickok45 ?
When you break into Jerry Miculek’s house and your hear “beep”
Thanks for that cracked me up needed that today God bless
SUPER ORIGINAL
Jerry has a welcome mat that reads GET SOME!
SHOOTER READY! BEEP...
That is the best comment I have ever heard...made me laugh
Shotgun = get out of my house. 556 = get off my lawn. 308 = get out of my neighborhood. 😈
50 bmg = get out of my zip code.
@@mersinaryboy lol, No vehicles allowed.
@Steven Ohakwe 16 inch naval gun=get out of my plane of existence
Trident D5 missile = get off the planet.
@@georgemorley1029 I think that's more "erase you from time and space"
The most devastating close range weapon yet devised will never be useless.
There's a reason shotguns are not realistic in videogames, if they were, they would be totally overpowered and people would whine that it's a "shotgun only" game, since most fights are within 50 yards anyway. Usually shotguns in videogames dont kill in 1 hit and have huge spreads at 5 yards already.
Reason why the germans cried about shotguns being used in ww1
Now if only we were allowed to have cqb length shotguns without begging for permission.
I love a shotgun. As a retired Police Officer a shotgun was my go to weapon when the SHTF. I still run a shotgun in competition and still love the thing, I have 5 of them and another one on the way.
KSG?
Congrats on the birth.
That's a great start.
@@nicoscarfo4486 I have a KSG12. Amazing shotgun and mine runs great.
They woudnt be used in war if they wasn’t for SHTF and you being a retired officer makes it more credible
The FBI releases huge amounts of data on police involved shootings. One of the interesting statistics relating to 12 gauge is that across the board 12 gauge is the only weapon used with reliable 1 shot stop when used.
That's because all of those shootings were done with #8 bird shot.
Exactly Cap one trigger pull sending 9-24 9mm-22cal. projectiles.
3” shell 1.5oz of #4 buck that’s 30 .24 cal pellets
20 gauge didn't have enough data. But with a good 2 gauge load, you can do everything a 12 gauge can with a 20 gauge.
@@twowheelfarm9024 as much lead as a mack !!!
Best advice of the decade. "Dont break in to Jerry's house"
Jerry: *Kills you and then checks his split timer*
Get some
Hahaha ...banzai !!!
By all means go ahead and break into Jerry’s house. You won’t do it twice I guarantee you that.
When you hear the beep, you are already dead
I openly embrace the fuddness of my 870! I know the system better than any other platform. It handles all my needs. The "limited " capacity is offset by the fact that you rarely need more than one round to put a hairless sasquatch down.
Same! Love mine & love using it
Thanks for, yet again, a very informative video!
Living in South Africa on a farm is extremely risky.
Farm near one of SA's worst violent crime areas, is worse still.
We routinely carry sidearms, and have access to semi auto rifles.
When serving in the Police Reserve, or Army Citizen Force, full auto ones.
Yet, we prefer pump/semi auto shotguns for farm/self defence.
Particularly at night, this weapon saved us over and over again.
During 20 + years of a "low intensity civil war" and State of Emergency.
Shoot and replace, shoot and replace, don't shoot it dry.
Train well to use it as intended, and it is an AWESOME weapon.
If you choose it. Each to their own. Many good options.
Watched and enjoyed your vids for many years, guys, Thanks!!
GOD bless you and Soth AFRICA, ALWAYS HAVE AT LEAST 6 LOADED MAGAZINES PER SEMI-AUTO RIFLE im praying for you and your country.
Amen, living in South Africa is no joke for White people and when it comes to stopping an attack NOTHING beats the shotgun.
Louis Awerbuck was a top shotgun trainer from South Africa. He owned Yavapai fFirearms Academy.
MOVE to Nz or Australia before its too late bud
Finally, someone with actual experience. Listen to what this guy is saying. Everyone with actual experience with a shotgun a combat is saying the same thing.
As an upland hunter I've dedicated 3 decades to the shotgun. I had become less impressed with the tool. Then I took a defensive shotgun class with Fred Mastison from Force Options Tactical, man was my eyes re-opened. Completely fell back in love with the ol' scatter gun in a new platform.
At close range, few things are as effective at stopping a threat immediately as a full load of 12 gauge buckshot to the chest.
12ga 3in no. 1 buck has a 24 pellet, 960 grain, 2.19 ounce payload. Shoot a coyote 20 yards away with it and watch what happens.
Or if you hit them in the leg they may be dead with no leg bleeding out through the renal artery.
Aim for the neck and go for the decap
smart perps will be wearing body armor committing such a bold crime as a home invasion
@@CIA_Is_aTerrorist_Orginization smart perps is an oxymoron, and quite a low percentage of possibility. Even so, taking a 12 gauge to the chest will still slow them down enough for follow up shots. Center mass first, then light them up until the threat is stopped. Still a valid point and worth consideration, especially since ATF agents under this administration are becoming a larger, more emboldened threat to our freedoms.
It’s all just luck of the draw, I suppose, depending on which room I’m in and which firearm is closest (AR, Benelli M4, CZ scorpion, etc...). All better options than my EDC pistol.
Note to self: Don't break into Jerry Miculek's home.
I my be crazy but not stupid. I just drive by and wave.
The last thing you'd hear is "Here we go *beeeep* "
Get some!
Note: it's easy to break into Jerry's house. It's just very hard to get out. At least alive.
Somebody take one for the team 😂
If you still have issues after 7-8 shells of buckshot flying around your home, you have a problem that no gun would solve!
Yeah, they're not there to just "rob & steal".
@@sputsputskeeskee7113 they want the booty and I'm not talking about gold gentlemen...
Lol more that 7 people. Then I move to my AR15. I keep a Remington 870 with a 6 round tube. Great for home defense. If I’m in the wood or open area I want my rifle.
@@charleskokel6602 if more than 7 people broke in and they're not running after the 1st shot, sorry to say, but you lose that one, regardless of how many hollywood movies tell you otherwise.
Great discussion on a combat shotgun. I'm in your camp that a combat shotgun in the hands of skilled operator is a very effective and viable solution to stopping a threat very quickly. I've heard many times that a pistol or rifle starts a fight but a shotgun ends a fight. Master the reloading is key,but the outcome is beneficial. If your not shooting then reload..reload & top it off or grab another shotgun. I remember...a long time ago you asked the legendary Jerry Michelik about just having one weapon he can have & only one. He said it would be the shotgun. It's a great tool to have when you absolutely need RAW STOPPING POWER. It works effectively.
Another option are Mini Shells aka Short shells. The Mossberg 590S with the 20” barrel will hold 13+1 mini shells. Less recoil as well.
Good advise..I have a Mosberg 590A but never see short shotgun shells here in slave state of California
@@tigerpisces5506 They're around, check turners. Or just have them ordered. I'm in CA as well.
@@tigerpisces5506 in CA too, I’ve seen several Big 5 Sporting Goods locations carry mini shells. Check them out if you have any near you
I can't imagine any firearm that is effective in its intended purpose being useless. It just sounds like a gun snob type thing to say that it would be useless
16 inch single action 22lr pistol
The only way a shotgun is useless is if it doesn't discharge or t h e target is too far away.
"Remember, switching to your other shotgun is always faster than reloading."
....my epitaph.
that's why I own 3 riot guns.
Captain price... His good advice.
Lmao exactly
I mean, switching to a new shotgun cancels the reload animation so keep at least three in your inventory bar while running around naked when harvesting materials to build your base.
A veteran who used shotgun in Arab wars in recent years came to our shotgun trap range one evening to break clays with hunting scattergun. He said his military issue shotgun and cartridges were very effective in combat out to 50 meters and he never felt undergunned - a solid endorsement of combat shotguns!!
I think in urban combat type of warfare, something like a Keltec with the 30 inch barrel, loaded with 12 slugs on one side and 12 double ought on the other, could be handy.
Be rather heavy.
@@828enigma6 it would valence okay. I think a better medium might be a KSG with a 22-24" barrel. The stock KSG is a 18.5.
@@rastus666 The only problem with a keltic style shotgun (also including the M&P 12 in this). Is that while they have great initial capacity, the reloading is quite cumbersome and time consuming compared to a regular style shotgun. Their reliability is also so-so.
Either a Benelli M4 or Mossberg 590 is what got it done. There's a reason why those two models are what's being used and not any of these other weird models like the Keltec or M&P 12, ect.
As YOU know: every Marine squad has two of them! Enough said.
Yeah but.... marines
That's exactly why I spent the cash for the M4. Also took a turkey with it.
Rah!!!
The stupid things said about shotguns; you can’t accurately fire a shotgun during a hostage situation.😂😂🤮
First firearm at front of stick during a building search has always been a shotgun with my Department
"The average encounter happens about 7 or 8 yards..."
Most of the shootouts (9 out of 10) during my [LE] career occurred at 7 to 8 FEET.
The first man I killed was 81 feet with a shotgun. The suspect was shooting at me with a shotgun also. It’s not just the average distance, it’s also the two extremes of closest and farthest.
Handguns are for starting gunfights, shotguns are for finishing them!
fuddlore
Personally, I've always been a big believer in having different tools for different jobs. Your considerations for choosing a tool for home defense will be vastly different depending on where you live, not just in terms of rural/suburban/urban poulation densities and the different corresponding concerns of overpenetration but also things like local laws and how pro-gun or anti-gun a judge or jury in your area is likely to be.
If you're living out on a farm in a red area, having an AR-15 for home defense might be your best bet. If you're living in the suburbs in a blue area, you might want some lighter shot (to avoid overpenetration and accidentally hurting the neighbors or their property) in a sleeper shotgun with wood furniture that looks to non-gun people like a normal hunting shotgun because a judge or jury won't like seeing any black plastic or "scary" features if you ever do end up shooting a home intruder.
The best gun for your situation depends a lot on what your situation is. That's why there are all sorts of different guns out there. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa and that's okay. You do you.
As people say, mission dictates gear.
Exactly!!! The right tool for the job !!!
With that said,
suburban apartment
12 gauge
Buckshots
neighbors safe but probably under the furniture.
I agree, however, AR's are so popular, it should be the norm to see them in cases like that, but with the MSM and recent shootings, the anti-gun crowds mind will explode anytime they see a black scary rifle.
i dont like the new tactical AR style shotguns. give me an old Mossberg
@MassCityMadman M1897 gang.
I love pump shotguns.
Mossberg is king
I remember when the Remington guys use to look down on us old Mossberg 500 owners my how things have changed lol
@MassCityMadman I love the 1897, I own one but I'd definitely trade it up for a Model 12 any day.
I'm loving my 18.5 overfolding Maverick 88 though. Sucker you can fit in a jacket its a actual shotty.
I can't imagine many people have ever had to reload a shotgun in a home defense scenario. If you are getting off first with your shotgun you win. Never heard of anyone breaking into a home with an AR with a 30 rd mag. Shotgun is an incredibly effective home defense tool
Most people change their minds about doing stupid things at the sound of a shotgun bolt chambering a round. Anybody around after that is too slow or just plain dumb.
You all do not realize
The beggars where I live are career
And wearing soft body armor and vest
Times are changing
@@user-mj5ef7ym6x
And....? So they are shotgun proof now or?🤔
@@toddk1377 the soft armor is lmao
@@DasGoodSoup
Doesn't prevent back face deformation. Good luck keeping your breath.
Great video, and I largely agree. I think, at the very least, a tactical shotgun should be considered as a "fight opener" in self defense. If someone doesn't think they could reload one under stress, consider starting the fight with it, know that if it runs dry, they will need to drop it and transition to something else. At least the fight has been started with 6+ rounds of extremely high energy ammo. I'm actually a huge proponent of tube fed shotguns over box magazine fed. If you dump 2 rounds into a target and there is a lull in the fight, you can top right off with two rounds. If you only have a chance to put one more round in the tube and another target presents itself, you aren't caught with your pants around your ankles!
Have been hunting and shooting my mossberg 500 regularly for over 40 years, It is the longarm I am most familiar with ,and and have put thousands of shells through it in sporting clays competitions and putting meat on the table. Under stress ,weapon familiarity is an important factor,That is why a 590 loaded heavy is my first choice to defend my home.
A 12 Gauge shot gun is one of the most versatile tactical weapon used against Man or Animal ... Thanks for the Video ... Please remember our Falling Soldiers and their Families May All be Blessed .
God bless all of them for the magnificent country we have
Shotguns rule close engagement..... it's not likely you'll have to fight the same person twice.
Idk I think itd be tough to go against an automatic weapon in close quarters
@@wcsdiaries Judge and jury would probably be very quick to condem that though, and likely get national news, and a farther push by the anti-gun crowed to ban guns
Great information guys. The modern combat shotgun definitely has a place. At pistol ranges with the quality buckshot it is hell on earth to a bad guy. As with all weapons systems training is king. Plenty of mods available to really tweak the Gauge are readily available and make it a much more efficient system. Vang barrels, Nordic extensions, wilderness shot shell carry cards and jumbo safeties to name a few. I am a retired LEO and used a 870 my entire career. I'm partial to the pump over semi but do own a few semis and like them
The key is training and knowing your weapons. Whatever your preferred rig for the job, know it inside and out. Training and drills are your friends, be the tool being a semiauto handgun, revolver, rifle, or shotgun. In the right hands, any tool is effective.
It's worth mentioning that one advantage, especially in a home defense situation, can be preventing over penetration. There are numerous demonstrations out there utilizing #4 Buck that show reduced penetration in walls compared to centerfire rifle/pistol rounds or even 00B while still delivering that stopping power that 12 gauge shotguns are known for.
Great point
55gr. 556 pentrates drywall less than 00 buck.
@DSW22 Over penetration isn't an issue unless you're the 85.8% of the population that lives in a home with other people. Then you might care were those rounds go.
So, yes, if you live by yourself in the middle of nowhere then over penetration isn't at all a concern. Good point.
@@evolutionglitch4739 I'm not sure I agree with that statement but #4 penetrates less than 00. My observation is that 5.56 seems to penetrate just fine even after it starts yawing.
@@chuckhood9659 each 00 buck pellet weighs basically as much as a .223 bullet. The .223 I going much faster and has a nice pointy shape so its going to penetrate things that 00 couldn't get through. The oddball thing is that .223 is faster and is energy transfer is too. I will yaw and dump its energy faster it will shed its jacket, becoming lighter so it'll stop faster, etc. Speaking of, I should caviat that bonded bullets penetrate much farther than regular .223/5.56 or 00. But standard everyday 55gr will go through less drywall and plywood than 00, as seen in many tests here on the tube. All that said, yeah... #4 penetrates a little less housing than even .223.
"Big guns are good. Backup big guns are good." - IV8888
If you’re just defending your home, shotguns can be fine, but I would advise against bringing a scatter gun into the field against opponents armed with rifles.
Shot guns dropped a lot of enemies in Vietnam in the jungle so I wouldn’t say it’s not affective in the field.
@@byronnlangley Exactly. I feel like a lot of these tactical instructors frame their training around scenarios where your fighting waives of trained rifle equipped enemies.Yes, a rifle is a superior tool in many ways, and I’d choose one over a shotgun for a "gunfight" 10 out of 10 times, but from a "bump in the night" home defense weapon a decently trained individual with a shotgun is a hard combo to beat. Seal Team 6 is probably not kicking in your door at 2am it’s probably a two 110lb junkies looking to take your flat screen.
@@byronnlangley but its efective in not open
in vietnam u had lot of bushes so it was great to have shotgun cuz it didnt put u in disadvatage
@@byronnlangley
Only in tight quarters, from one side of a rice patty to another you’re going to get your ass handed to you if you’ve got a shotgun.
There’s a reason why virtually none of ‘us’ is running one anymore... except for breaching.
well what’s more likely? you fighting an army in a field outside your house. or you waking up to a window breaking and 1 or two guys trying to steal ur shit?
I've always been of the opinion (and practice) that you need to be something of an opportunist, when it comes to keep the tube topped-off. Any time you have a free couple seconds, be stuffing another shell in there. Of course, you need to practice keeping a mental count of your rounds, but that's a good habit to be in anyway... Unless you're in a mag-dump situation (and realistically, most self-defense situations, in a non-war-zone, aren't going to be), you'll probably have many opportunities to top-off. And, with practice, you don't even have to move the gun off-target. Also, there so many different _types_ of ammunition you can put through a shotgun. Hell; you can even _hand-reload_ a shell, if for some reason you actually had to.
P.S. If shotguns were _"useless",_ in tactical situations, would 80% of the Police Cruisers across America have one (or more) on-board..? I think not.
Well I bought my first gun today, Mossberg 590 A1. Thank You for all the knowledge you share.
Mighty fine choice.
Great choice. Train, practice, and move up in choice as your skills develop and grow.
Try these upgrades for you 590a1. Recommend a oversized safety from Elite Tactical Advantage. Far better than those little plastic safeties from Mossberg. A Knoxx Spec-Ops recoil reducing stock. Either a Mess Tactical hard shell carrier, or, a soft shell carrier from from SOE and others. Need to get a barrel block for the muzzle end to protect the magazine tube. Plenty of manufacturers of barrel blocks. And a combat adjustable sling. I like the Blue Force, Larry Vickers sling. Lot of sling types available. If you have a 20" barrel model you can get a real bayonet from Ontario Knife Company. The 20" model has the clip to attach the bayonet.
@@whomagoose6897 oversized safety + flashlight is all you need for home defence.
The most useless shotgun when you really need it just goes “click” which is also the loneliest noise ever heard.
Terminator 2 with the 870 lol
System of a Down's "Lonely Day" immediately started playing in my head after reading this comment.
Same with any rifle or handgun
The one reason pump is still king. Most ppl think semi auto shoot fast etc etc but those with any training will tell you the just in case factor is right in your hand with a pump....
@Patrick Henry yes definitely. I’m a huge fan of my 1187 a5 and a300. Never a hiccup with any of those either but for me the pump is about if round fails. With pump instant rack bang. With semi not so much ..... I still use the a5 and 300 for duck hunting. The 1187 for clays. Yes 1000’s each between them. Maybe only 1000-1500 through the 300 but there’s always that maybe etc. and out of all platforms all systems even lever action. You can rack a still shoot a pump faster than anything else if you ever do have a click. So I put in a lot of time training on that platform. It has served me well. Still got the ar definitely know how to set up and use one of those. But that one shot drop you get from OB or OOB is IMO unmatched. Unless you shoot em with a 50 or something lol
I feel like one can generally chamber the next round in a pump-action by the time they get their sights back on-target. I also appreciate how you can just slap a shell into the chamber, rack forward and fire - heck you can do that in the dark.
Learn how to pullrack and reloading is instantaneous just like in an auto-loader. The only limitation is your pump hand keeping up with your trigger finger.
@@ryanwilson5936
Exactly.
We stage 12 gauges also. They're the perfect choice for home invasions. First, we don't open the front door, ever. So if they are stacking up while pounding down the door, we're lining up the first salvo. Nothing is more demoralizing then the head exploding of your lead turd through the door.
We won't be chasing turds through the home, if they decide to continue the fun house experience. We simply retreat to another room and let them open the next door.
If they're that determined, why not torch the house?
in a home defense situation you will never have to reload your shotgun lol. you'll prolly only use 2-3 rounds.
It's still good to have extra rounds just in case, u never know these days ppl r crazy
Most times your correct. The worst thing That ever happened to the credibility of the 12 gauge shotgun is Joe Biden. I mean think about it if he’s recommending it, it’s got to be evil!
It’s also not hard to reload a shotgun, you can top off reload, instead of waiting until your empty. Get an opportunity throw a couple rounds in, need to shoot pull the trigger.
Traded up from my 930 JM Pro 22" barrel to a LTT Beretta 1301 as home defense became a priority over an "all around" shotgun. Both were delivered via my LGS. Just the reaction from the staff at the LGS to the Beretta 1301 was enough to tell me I made the right choice (they were practically begging to join me for some range time). Man what a fantastic tool.
Sad that you had to give up a JM Pro to get it.
I'd have both.
And I do have both as well as two dozen others.
@@pauldvorsky1969 sorry if my comment was confusing... I still have both!
@@Compadre280I thought you traded it too
Tell me that 1301 was worth every penny...I need to know cuz it's gonna cost me more than money.
@@wicklowabby7977it’s smooth like buttah!!!
I think having a tactical shotgun with a pistol in a home defense situation is great. I also believe it's like anything else, you need to practice with it and know how to use it effectively.
Shotgun guy myself. I have been shooting them much longer than any other gun so it is where my comfort is. Really feels like an extension of my arms rather than something being carried.
this^
This sounds hokie, but I can relate. With my tactical pump, I don't aim in the classical sense. I 'intuitively point'. It works and quickly connects lead to a 4" target at 25yards... faster than I can with my ar.
This is why I have an 18 and a half inch barrel for defense then when I want to shoot trap I switch over to my 28 inch barrel. Best multi tool in my arsenal.
Only 28 inches? I love the 32 inch barrels on my clay buster ...couldn't ever see my self using anything else now.
I don’t even change my barrel for clays. Lol
The best weapon will always be the one at hand when you need it. Its up to us all to make sure we can use it well enough.
One way to think about the capacity issue is to regard each 8 pellet buckshot round as 8 rounds rather than one. I shoot three gun and practice reloading, but in a real life situation it’s hard to imagine running a shotgun empty. If eight rounds of buckshot don’t solve your problem you probably need the U.S. Marine Corps, not a few more rounds.
8 rounds you're firing all at once, which means a miss is a miss.
Can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight 🤷
I've definitely seen a decline in the use of shotguns by police, when I was growing up that was the go to cruiser long gun to keep up front with maybe an AR or m1 carbine in the trunk, now it's all AR15's up front. Shotguns seem to have been relegated to non lethal duty firing the magic bean bags of compliance.
They don't need a weapon when they know what time you wake up, when you poop, when you got to work, where you work, what time you'll be home, and have a complete list of everything you've bought and every website you've visited. That's the true weapon and they know it.
@@NoNo_IStay the cia probably watches you
@@NoNo_IStay not probably definitely
@@NathanKirby2001 They have a a database on all of us.
Most Police Officers today couldn't handle a shotgun.
When a shot gun goes off everyone is listening and running 🏃♂️ 😂🤣😂🤣
so the exact same thing that happens when a .22 pocket rocket goes off?
@@omardevonlittle3817 agree no one likes a lead sandwich 🤣😂🤣👍
and dropping bricks )
@Da Sheat except for a snubby .357, or short barrel AR, etc etc. take a seat sonnie. when ppl start shootin bystanders start scootin
A 12 gauge running some brenneke slugs underneath a good quality red dot is highly highly underestimated
Interesting conversation. I would wager that an average plain Jane shot gun with it's 5 rounds and simple use won't require reloading in 99% of civilian defense situation's. And getting the "tactical" version with the extended tubes surely hold plenty of rounds. - just some plane old #4 buck is going to be adequate again 99% of the time.
I love this channel, always have since 2013. I feel that the shotgun in general has been overlooked or somewhat forgotten. I definitely agree that with what you said, ammo is limited and reloading is slow like molasses. But there is a power factor you just can’t ignore and just sheet raw hate you’re letting loose out of the barrel. I think it’s more versatile than what people realize, you can hunt, defend your home with it or go out on duty with (only when the conditions apply). I’ve been making it a point to run my shotgun more and also train more, so far I can say I have a sweet spot for it and will always have a sweet spot for the shotgun.
I keep several shotguns strategically placed with varying loads for specific purposes, i.e. slugs, buck or bird shot if needed. The tactical shotgun will be one of the first weapons I grab if an intruder enters my home. I like what you said about throwing one gun down and grabbing another as opposed to trying to reload, that's exactly why I have many.
Transition to another weapon is often faster than a reload. Everyone should practice both quick reloads and transition to another weapon.
In my opinion a tactical shotgun CAN be one of the best options, IF you train to the point of muscle memory. With a half way decent selection of ammo a tactical shotgun can fill more rolls than almost anything else, maybe not perfectly for each scenario but a shotgun will always be at least good enough to get the job done, it's the Swiss army knife of guns, if I could only choose one firearm for all my needs it would be my tactical shotgun as I can do anything I want with it from self defense to self preservation, ie hunting. With the same gun I can bag rabbits, squirrels, deer, hell elk if you're ambitious enough, and then still have a viable self defense gun. As for the purely tactical role it can match almost any level of capability, need to get more lead down range in a hurry, buckshot, need to hit something really hard, slug, from regular self defense to opening doors to stopping a car if you have to. About the only real limitations are long range and targets wearing armor, but even still if you're wearing kevlar and take a slug to the chest it's still going to break every rib in your chest and take you out of the fight. Personally a tactical shotgun is always my first choice, kick in my door at 3am and see if my Lucille doesn't shut that sh*t down 🤣
I took a 2 day tactical shotgun class at sig Sauer academy and thet only recommend pump action shotguns
Facts !
I think the shotgun gets vastly over looked now days because everybody is in their AR frenzy. I get it that AR's are great tools for a lot of things, I have a shit ton of them, but when rubber meets the road, like you said, the shotgun is just more versatile and not so affected by barrel length like rifles can be.
I like Tactical shotguns.
Simple yet effective statement 👍
I like turtles
I like cheese
Chad: "You see some guy not complying, hoped up on God-knows-what frickin' drug. You see a 12-gauge buckshot load go downrange and what's the next thing you see?"
Me (raises hand): "Compliance."
This is almost an exact reference from the ATF handbook.
@@johnsheppard5257 you caught me.
I have a Mossberg 590A1 that I bought years ago that I like very well! The stock will hold 4 extra rounds and the sights are very good for this shotgun. I also have a Saiga 410 that I use a 30 round drum mag with it. It is a bit bulky and I had to work on it a little but it works just fine. It would be real sweet if the russians would have made there own drums for these. I got these guns just before Hussain took Office and I was left with little choice as far as Mags go.
With the damage I've had to both shoulders and wrists, turning my hand to hold a "standard stock" shotgun can be difficult. With a pistol grip shotgun, it's alot more natural and I don't have to fight me while I'm fighting (training to fight) someone else. ARs, AKs, and tactical shotguns are perfect, FOR ME. My handgun never leaves my side, but in the same vein, I always have a long gun of one of the other variations close by. Thanks for what you guys do for us, and thanks to your families for giving you the time.
go ahead just say it .. a slug or buckshot has a lot of stopping power
Love my Shotties! For in the Home where you don't have to worry about weight, great tool. Love the Staging Idea.
"Don't break into Jerry's house." No shit! AR mag dump 1 second. Shotgun mag dump reload another mag dump 3 seconds. Pistol mag dump 1.5 seconds. Revolver dump reload another dump 2 seconds.
I had played with Benelli shotguns (M4 specifically) for about a decade. I'd buy one, shoot it some, move it down the road. They just never stuck around. I finally got out of them in around 2015 or so. Then, somewhere in the next few years, Scalarworks began making a very excellent T2 mount, and IWC began making a great light mount. I ventured back into the gauge, and bought an M1014, because I hate choke tubes. It was just kindof...cool I had 9 round of 12ga, but...eh. I sold it. Then I figured I need at least some sort of shotgun, so I decided to snag an M4 SBS. It was in stock in my area, and why not? Game changer. Absolutely LOVE my M4 SBS so much so that I bought another one. Shotguns do not really suffer much from 18.5 to a 14" barrel. I believe the velocity loss for low recoil slugs and low recoil buckshot (all federal LE stuff) was an average of around 35fps loss from 18.5 to 14" barrel gun, and the 18.5 was a pump while the 14" was semi-auto, in my testing. Literally all you lose is 2 rounds capacity using low recoil stuff. Using a Fiocchi 1oz 1560fps rated slug, the delta grew to 70fps. Interestingly, using Federal LE12700, the delta was a under 20fps. As an anecdote, LE12700 chronographed 1244 in my M4 SBS, while LE132 chronographed 1088. A 40ft-lb delta per-pellet. Sorry to nerd out on you like this, but some people might enjoy it. FWIW, the LR stuff has much less flash than the full power. I use my M4 SBS under i2 at night, so it matters.
Have a M4 SBS with Scalarworks Aimpoint Mount by myself. Love it! Unfortunately i'm not allowed to store it loaded by law.
The versatility of what can be put into a shotgun shell means that they will be viable long after we've started using directed energy weapons.
Good video. I like shotguns for home defense. Very versatile in terms of loads; bird shot, #4, buck shot, slugs, etc.. Folks concerned about over penetration can pick appropriate loads. And home defense generally is not a combat situation (unless a platoon of bad guys attacks your house) in which we need to teach our wives how to do combat reloads. If the bad guys are not vacating the premises or incapacitated after 6 to 8 shells, then there's something way out of the ordinary happening. Excellent discussion!!!
Loading a shotgun fast is just a matter of practice, if you have an 8+1 or a 7+1 shotgun and you need to reload because of a home invasion, your home is probably in Felujah.
Now your making sense !!!
Unfortunately it could easily become your home or mine !!!
An they ain't coming to play games !!!
Won't be zombies or make believe games !!! It's you your family and everything you own !!!
They aren't making true "Combat Shotguns" 30 in a rotating tube mag a bandoleer...
That's the funniest shit I heard all week...good one
I love my shot guns. Thanks for the heads up that I also need to buy a wheelbarrow. I wasn't thinking about the after effects when the smoke clears.
I feel a tactical shotgun is a tool that must be mastered through rigorous training more so than a pistol, or rifle, but has the ability to be more versatile in some ways. So my thoughts are train more with a tactical shotgun if you plan to use it for self defense! Personally I have one and have trained some with it but definitely could use more practical training.
it's the first two or three rounds that determine everything else that follows in most situations. also, this needs mention: shotgun shells come in a huge variety of capability, far beyond that of any rifle format. for example, using the same (shot)gun... get a bird dinner one night, defend the farm the next. a week later get a deer at 80 yards. shotgun shells are easy to reload, and to customize. they are arguably easier to work on / repair. glad you guys are open minded.
"Tactical" is litterally a keyword to get more sales 😂. Ive got a "Tactical" pocket knife that came with my super "Tactical" backback......
If they were cheaper i may go after a more "Tactical" or a semi auto 12 ga tho.
If we want to talk shotguns the break barrel is simple and way more versatile. These days you can get 30 dollar adapters to make them use pretty much any round you want. Making it an all in one. Between sabots, slugs, buckshot, and adaptors. A break barrel 12 can do most jobs.17, 22, 380, 9mm, 38 special, 45 acp 45 colt and a few i cant even remember lol. Now Thats alot of versatility for one stick lol
It is often just a marketing ploy based on asthetics but there are a few times when it is definately different than your granddads hunting shotgun.
@@williamnicholson8133 oh deffenitly. Its used mainly as a a marketing tool. Even flashlights are "Tactical" these days lol.
I would like to get a semi auto one day. but with the price tag these days, its probably a bit high to think about anytime soon. But at the same time 12 ga ammo is about the only thing thats been easy to find threw the whole ammo scheme going on so in the long run they may not be the worst investment
Remember switching to your next shotgun is always faster the reloading.
Definitely has a place in home defense.
A 12 gauge running some brenneke slugs underneath a good quality red dot is highly highly underestimated
They are good in urban environment's too
Hard to beat a shot gun for versatility. Home defense, bird hunting, deer hunting, hog hunting, people hunting ... i even know people that have successfully fished with a shot gun!
Within 25 yards and for up to five threats, a single trigger pull threat stop shotgun has an advantage but does require training and a proper load.
Many times friends ask me advice on what to get for home defense, I recommend the pump shotgun. It’s reliable, simple, and with practice, can be formidable in the right hands. I also recommend a full stock and not something without a stock like a Shockwave. I always reiterate that they must aim and not just point and shoot, especially at closer range. It’s not the street sweeper people think it is. I also tell them that a shotgun is multi purpose, meaning that it also serves as a potential hunting firearm as well as home defense.
Shotguns just make sense, especially if it’s an able person who is only investing in one firearm. Of course, I don’t recommend it to people who I don’t feel can physically handle the weight and recoil.
I don't look at "Tactical" shotguns as a go getter, I see them be more of a "Come Get Some" defensive weapon.
COME UP AND GET ME IM IN JIMMY PAGES CASTLE
@@YippityDingleDoo IM OFF THE PLANET ECHO ASTRAL FINAL LASSO
@@skibooski6884 GAUGE DUCT TAPED TO THE CEILIN
@@YippityDingleDoo blobloblobbloblo
That’s why I have a ksg for home defense
I carried an 12 gauge pump in the Army and when I became a Firearms Instructor for Law Enforcement, I firmly believed in the shotgun as the most versatile weapon ever made. I taught tactical shotgun course for my agency for over 20 years. The officers were taught how to clear a room, building or fields. The only issue I ever ran into was officers with smaller stature not wanting to train with the 12 gauge and I tried to get our department to issue 20 gauge to those officers but failed every year. I keep a 20 gauge tactical stationed in areas in my house just because my wife and teenager daughters were more comfortable shooting the weapons at the range. With double 00 buck or bean bag. even low brass cut shell birdshot will do an outstanding job for self defense.
Thank you for that John! Me of smaller stature agree, but then I recall Annie Oakley. She was emptying the skies putting ducks on the table when she was a wee lass and went on to be a legend! Hunting or SD, shotgun very versatile.
Bean bag ain't for home defense. Non lethal rounds are not a good option. #4 BUCKSHOT is the best I've found. 27 pellets and plenty of knockdown. More than a plenty
Yea but Germans only had slow bolt rifles at the time...now home invaders' got Glock switches, AR's, etc...🤔
First gun was an 870 express tactical with ghost ring sights.
I wouldn't personally rely on a semi auto 12 due to reliability, but if someone asked if I wanted an m4, you are not going to see me complaining. The reliability is probably fine as long as you use a stout load like 00 buck.
Got to agree with Patrick Henry, my M4 has been nothing but reliable with everything from 7 1/2 to slugs.
Modern semi-autos have proven to be more reliable than pumps. Plenty of data floating around that shows that.
Is it messed up that I laughed out loud at “carried off in a wheelbarrow”?
Eric I absolutely love my M4! Just now getting used to her but Man! I can not wait to master her! Home defense it’s the first thing I’m picking up and when she’s empty drop her and get back to work with something else. Love the videos you and Chad never quit! 🤙🏽
“Well.. Unless you’re Jerry Miculek-“
“Don’t break in Jerry’s house.. Please don’t.”
😂😂😂😂
He’d probably sit you down and explain the error of your ways lol.
@@shanek6582Yea... as you gurgle and drown in your own blood.
O better yet ... if you´re going to break in someone´s house, please pick Jerry Miculek house... I want so see...
Last sounds heard......BEEP, "GET SOME!"
Thief: (kicks in door)...
(BEEEEP)
The shotgun is the most versatile weapon out there.
Absolutely. Ppl are stupid
@@mikea.6608 Yes they are.
But the "tactical" shotgun is a one trick pony
Bird gun or over under pump auto idc. I’ll use any of them. Buckshot is also one shot one kill.
AR15 is just as versatile, honestly just preference. There not really better than each other at basic home defense.
If you’ve emptied 8-9 rounds of high brass 12 ga slugs and need to reload... you got bigger problems 😂
Also, you could always drop one additional round in the chamber at a time... but again if I empty my shotgun in self defense... I really pissed a lot of people off 😂
Haha the New York reload staged shotguns thing killed me. Practical though!
Old video, mostly dead thread, but I feel that shotguns function very similar to a snub nose revolver, they can be extremely effective tools with their own set of quirks that work for the operator. But require a great deal of training. One thing is; the ability to fire 9 .32 balls at one target with one trigger pull is only really matched by a actual full automatic/burst.
Last time I was this early, people were still saying RIP Barry
RIP Barry
Shotguns with modern ammo are easily the most versatile firearms a civilian can get.
My tactical shotgun a Benelli M4 with titanium extended mag and a flash light will make any bad person shit their pants. It will lay down a lot of hate really quickly.
Thank you very well said
Another excellent video!
In close range shooting. The 1.5" short shells are perfect for home defense situations. And give MORE capacity! The KS7 is an excellent defensive tool. The KSG is even better if you are comfortable with the grip. I can load buckshot on one side, slugs on the other.
I love tac shotguns I know when it comes to my family's safety the shotgun is one of my best options esp here in California where gun laws are atrocious .. no sbr's for me and with only ten rounds in a pistol yeah my sg comes pretty handy
Picked up a tactical shotgun a few months ago. The ability to adjust the stock was a big factor. My wife is short and length of pull was important as most standard shotguns are too long. Now we have a shotgun we both can effectively use for home defense
Most definitely not useless, but for most people a good standard pump action is more useful,and affordable.
A pump shotgun can be tactical. Tactical implies synthetic stock , Mlok and pic rail, optic mounts etc, and/or military application. Remington 870 and mossberg 590A1 are used in the military and considered tactical in their military configuration
@@meangreen320 maverick 88 security, strap a light, put a Rail and side saddle, and behold, $500 shotgun.
@@meangreen320 dangerous if you know how to spit a round in it too
The only real drawback to pump action is short stroking the pump.
Under stress this becomes a real issue and I've seen it happen once. You can practice all you want for speed shooting and not be nearly capable when under high life or death stress situations. Training for that is not easy or cheap.
I would still recommend a tube fed semiauto over a pump for most people as a defense weapon.
@@meangreen320 Yeah I know but I meant just standard stock sights and tube. You can get em for 200 bucks and it will do what most people need it too.
I've used a shotgun for work and hunting. It never failed me but you have to understand the range limitations. BTW, in the woods at night I can't think of a better gun than a shotgun.
I just got a Beretta 1301 Tactical and love it! Definitely think they serve a role, especially in home defense. As pointed out they can also be used in a hunting / sporting role. Of course you need to train to get gud just like anything else.
If it is not your cup of tea then train and get gud on your weapon of choice. I like to have options, and a tactical shotty with the proper load is an excellent choice to have in your arsenal. BTW thank you for reminding me I need to get a wheelbarrow. Another great video.
How many rounds do they carry? 7?
7 +1 with the Nordic extension / pic rail pak. I believe the current 1301’s come with a capacity of eight by default. Still my favorite shotgun.
I love my Benelli m3 super 90. It only holds 8 rounds, but I am good with it
Shotguns are never useless unless they’re useless (no ammo or broken). 😂
It makes a good club,,
I'm on it hard for tactical Mossbergs and 870's. I have 7 of them and still want a few more.
Have you talked to a therapist about your hoarding problem?
Man who knows how to shoot more than steel and paper.
Those don’t move.
We could be friends.
Imagine taking a guy who loves to cartwheel around behind garbage cans and shoot steel at 60-70 yards with his favorite ar and then take him to a real range where the targets move at 10-15 mph sideways. And ask that guy after he spent a full mag and not hit anything you suuuuuuure you don’t want to try a shotgun????? Same thing goes for hog hunting. Many many many a time I’ve seen guys come hog hunting with the ar. Waste 7-10 rounds as it runs right by them. And bang. One shot. Right as it’s getting away. Me or another regular hunter sends the ol buckshot in at the last second to finally get the job done. No it’s not cause I can’t shoot either. I can shoot clay targets with my ar or 22 or whatever. Throw stuff up in the air and shoot it too. But fact is I can do it faster with a shotgun.
I kinda like the double 00 way of making a threat fubar with one shot.
11:04 "just switch to your other weapon! It's faster than reloading!"
Yeah, I thought that comment was a bit silly.
Since you touched on the point, how about doing an AR vs tactical (semi auto tube, magazine, and pump) shotgun video.
Meltdown Video 😀