I don’t know why, but the fact that Yaz, Dan and Jericho just leapt forward 3 years kinda bugged me. The last episode ended with them stuck in a village that had been quantum extracted. They were stuck floating in the middle of space and that space was slowly enclosing in on village. Did the Angels just plonk them back into their timelines? If so, why? The episode went out of its way to remind us the Angels delighted in tormenting and torturing people. And what became of the little girl? (Penny/Peggy?) She was important enough that Yaz and Dan spent most of the last episode protecting her and now she’s….where? All her family are dead, so even in the 1960s she would have had nowhere to go. Same with Claire. Was she released as the Angel’s envoy/vessel? Or did they just kill her now they had no use for her? I’m not saying this needed to take up a significant amount of time - all it would have required would have been a couple of comments from the characters so that we as the audience knew what happened. I guess because this is a serial, rather than a series of stand-alone episodes, this leap in time bugged me more than it should, but it just felt like too big a plot point to just ignore
Well I mean, if its a choice of saving an abandoned child with no family and a world war veteran who can totally handle himself and be more useful to their cause... Yaz is cold as ice.
I believe somewhere in the angels episode it was explained that the whole village (including land) only completely disappeared in 1967, the people disappeared in 1901 (and I assume the land too, for a while) but the land had to have been there for the second time which also explains how Peggy got back.
When Moffat started: "Yay! We've got rid of RTD, now it's time for someone who can write more than soap operas." When Chibnall started: "Yay! We've got rid of Moffat, now it's time for someone who can write more than mystery boxes." When RTD starts: "Yay! We've got rid of Chibbers, now it's time for someone who can write. At all."
I think you hit the nail on the head about CC just wanting to permanently carve his name into Who, and not caring what anyone else thinks. Even making New Years Specials and having them on Sundays, as opposed to Christmas and Saturdays. Sure it's minor, but ut still screamed "we're doing this MY way." There are ways of putting your mark on Who without completely re-writing 58 years of Who lore. Look at RTD and the time war, or Moffat with the War Doctor (or finding a way to keep the doctor regenerating beyond 12) Both bridge the Classic and New Who together, both built on Who lore, but maintained the mythos and core of Who. All I know is that RTD has hos work cut out for him to restore Who to it's pre-CC glory
He hasn’t rewritten 58 years of lore. Why do people say this? This implies that 58 years of content has been wiped or completely and irreparably changed and twisted and made mute. When this literally isn’t the case at all. The entire story of Doctor who from 1963 all the way to 2021 still runs exactly the same as it always did. There’s simply just a little bit of extra added onto the time period before the shows official beginning
@@obiwankenobi687 BBC: We decided to turn the Doctor into a cannibal baby eater. But don't worry, there is still 50+ years of canon where they aren't eatting babies. At least on screen, just know off camera they've been eatting babies all along! Same energy, the Timeless Child does affect the lore retroactively. You like or just don't mind the change, good for you. That doesn't mean it isn't a major change to the character that can negatively affect the way people view them. Yes, people can still enjoy the older stuff, but that doesn't mean they are obliged to continue watching if they hate what has been done.
@@stryletz there’s literally no comparison there at all. The history of the show DOES run exactly the same. It doesn’t undo a single thing that has happened. It just adds more before Hartnell. She works for the division, gets reset back to a child, gets her memories wiped, grows up into William Hartnell and the entire show literally runs as normal with no changes at all
@@obiwankenobi687 My only problem with that explanation is why? Why reset the doctor to a child and let them live without any memories? I suppose we will get some 'explanation' of events, but the fact that the doctor has infinite regenerations does effect the past. When Matt Smith became really old and was about to die why did he not regenerate by himself? Regenerations just happen, doctors in the past have tried to hold on for longer but it will happen when it needs to. To me adding all the previous doctors before Hartnell is a slap in the face to the man who was the original beloved character. Now he's just the first doctor that was shown to us. Also, doctor is a name Clara suggested to Hartnell so I am not sure how the Ruth doctor is also 'Doctor'. The previous incarnations just come off as mindless diversity to show that the doctor doesn't have to be white - they literally show a kid from a different race in every shot in that one scene of experimentation. Where does an interdimensional being even get the ability to change races from? His/her race was never important, they were just a time lord - well not anymore I guess.
1. How did Yas et al escaped the village that was literally floating in space and collapsing? Also what did they do with the kid? 2. Why was Dan a stowaway at all? 3. Were was the rouge luparin ship going and as you say why couldn’t he just take control of that one? 4. Why would some blankets stop a bundle of dynamite and couldn’t Yas just cut the fuse? 5. How does Chibnall keep getting work?
If Chibnall is going to destroy the universe and go to another one. Why? All of the companions and history left to dust just feels like a slap in the face to the impact of the Doctor Who universe. I don't know how RTD would fix this, if he will.
@@lucasnoxman8714 But if they do that, Multi-Doctor Stories will be impossible. If the main Universe Ends that won't just kill All of the old Companions, it will kill all the old Doctor's, If the Universe Explodes/gets destroyed, Time itself disappears. So The Doctor wouldn't have a Past, so The Doctor would remember her previous incarnations, but they wouldn't exist at all in the Universe.
@SilentWraith Speaking of "MultiDoctor"stories...the is something so odd about this, in basic story telling logick-If the Flux is so powerfull that he tearing the time it self apat'spoiler alert' the past doctors lived in space and y time 😂😂😂Is leterally imposible for them, not to see event of masive distruction like Flux and and didnt help himself. In Moffat stories like pandorica timline it was small and sliw distruction, that hapen like that and he cant help himself. This logick also faild in the Imposible astronaut storyline , where time was corupted, even if limited on Earth, woud mean that there should be all all of them, because Doctor is on eart more time for one week, that you went to your nearest Tesco to buy a milkiway. By just baisic logic, if time is dieing across the whole uneverse...some of the Docyors would noticed. But i thing, what Chibby wants to do, is that the universe we see every day for pas almost 60year, is actualy second or even ani number he saw on calendar, and Ruth + regenerations will be from that past universes. I still hope that RTD will do something i sad here in another coment, that the Doctress is in coma from fall in ep1s11 and her body is dieing, and the Flux is just a dream interpreting whats happening to her body as she going to regenareted.
@@martinmacko6409 Well don't forget, the Theory of The Doctor being in a Coma after her fall would be Redundant. Time Lords can survive deadly injuries for 15 Hours after their Regeneration. The Tenth Doctor was Disarmed (Quite Literally and grew it back) - River Song was sprayed with Bullets by Nazi Soldiers. and The Thirteenth Doctor fell from her Predecessor's TARDIS immediately after her regeneration.
1)Sooooo....what happened to Peggy? 2)How did they escape from that village? 3)Where did they get the money to go around the world? 4)If Division is so powerful, why is there only one little old woman (Aswok/Tecteun) and an Ood manning the place? Where's the security? You'd think she'd have some kind of personal protection device or personal forcefield or teleportation device or SOMETHING to prevent herself from getting assassinated... 5)Why wouldn't the Flux just instantly wipe out everything all in one go?
Peggy probably just stayed there to become Mrs Hayward. The angels wouldn't need them anymore so just release the quantum extraction. 3 I have no clue about. She didn't say division is powerful. She said it influences a lot. So it has operatives and they do work. But she's in between 2 universes. She really doesn't need security. Who's gonna think to themselves I'm gonna jump in between two universes to annoy tecteun. Swarm and Azure are just people who have too much time on their hands. So tecteun basically thinks no one will try to assassinate her. Number 5. Again they are in between universes. To make an event as big as the flux is hard enough. But to wipe out an entire universe with it whilst also trying to get from one universe to another is just nearly impossible.
I'm very confused on how Yaz, Dan, and Jerico got out of the village in 1901. Like... last week when they went to the edge of the village it was just nothing but space. The whole village had been quantum extracted. Did the Angles just... put them back? Why would they? They like being cruel.
My guess is that they were tasked to capture the Doctor and only that. After that, they put things where they were. The Judoon made a fuss in the Futitive Doctor episode but were told to behave.
There's definitely an implication that the village was returned-- both in 1901 and in 1967. During the scene where General Farquhar and the Grand Serpent are at UNIT's new complex in 1967, it's mentioned that UNIT conducted an operation to the village after all of the residents had disappeared, and the TARDIS had been recovered from where the Doctor had left it in the previous episode. I don't think it's ever stated outright, but I believe we're meant to take that as an indication that it was returned in 1901 as well. As for _why_ the Angels would put them back... I suppose it could be argued that the Angels forcing the companions to watch the Doctor being converted into an Angel and captured really was the cruelest part. That was what the Angels wanted most. After they got that, I guess the Angels might think that putting the companions back on Earth and leaving them there, stranded in the past without the Doctor, would have no negative consequences for them. Not to mention, just _leaving_ the village in quantum extraction might have caused some sort of paradox, since the village had to have been in its normal place after being depopulated in 1901 in order for the extraction in 1967 to proceed the way that it did.
It felt a bit like an info dump, I'm not sure why they didn't spread the grand serpent UNIT scenes throughout the series instead of just throwing them all here. It's strange it felt like almost a whole new plotline coming out of nowhere (even though they kind of linked it to the rest of the goings on with the sontarans) I know the character featured previously but he didn't seem to have any relation to earth. (Unrelated but his characters reminds me a lot of the master from the doctor who movie with his strange snake abilities) Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about the sontarans showing back up, after they were already defeated a few episodes ago it's a little exhausting for them to just show up and be a threat again (especially when that threat is sort of undermined by their previous defeat by a handful of people) They were great this season and their storyline felt like almost a nice self contained plot so them just popping up again at this late stage seems a bit pointless to me personally. I also feel like the main villains are a bit bland (swarm and azure), they seem to simply be entities that want to cause as much mayhem as possible without much more depth to them. I was waiting for the show to give us a bit more information on them and characterise them a bit more but at this stage with so much to wrap up that seems unlikely. They also seem ridiculously powerful in terms of they can seemingly teleport and kill you with one touch. A threatening villain is great, but when you set a character up as essentially all powerful it'll be hard for the doctor to defeat them without it coming off as a bit cheap. This season seems ultimately too chaotic in a way, like they could have done with a few more episodes to flesh out some of these plots and develop some of these characters, let things breathe a little. That all being said like mentioned in the video, if they manage to bring it all together somehow and stick the landing then who knows. A great balanced review in general, great job.
Don’t worry about the threatening villain that can kill you with one touch… just do what The Doctor does and imaginatively duck past and run away to the other side of the room from them 🫣
Cheers Rich, I enjoyed the episode but can see the frustration that it is causing some people. This really is chibbers best series but he's trying to put a square peg in a round hole along with the triangle pentagon and dodecahedron
1:30 I think that sort of thing would have been more suited to characters like Rassilon. He's a well-established egocentric despot, and his meddling has been alluded to quite a bit. Why not go the Big Finish route and have him commit some more crimes against creation itself? You wouldn't have had to contrive a new and very shallowly written villain that way.
I find I don't mind the change to the Doctor's backstory so much as the way it was presented: basically, the Master putting the Doctor in a room and showing home movies.
It's truly mind-boggling how often Chibs seems to think it's compelling television to put the Doctor in a room, for the Doctor to have no idea whats going on, and for another character to explain the plot at her for long stretches of dialogue while both actors strain to inject passion and emotion into a dead scene. This isnt good drama. This isnt a good way to use the Doctor. The Doctor is the hero of the show, not a witness or victim of the show's events.
@@captbuckyohare5585 That's the thing. It wasn't even the plot. The plot had to do with the Master and Cybermen. You could have removed all of that exposition and just defaulted to "the Master is crazy" and it would have made little difference.
@@donnalevasseur4818 No. That laid out important information about the TVA, the Sacred Timeline, variants, etc. The Timeless Child had no bearing on the plot. At least in Flux, Division is directly involved.
@@johnsensebe3153 This season threw so much stuff at us that I have actually forgotten that the Cybermen were involved in all of this as well. I just had to post a wall of text as a comment, but it just shows that Chibnall is just bad at telling stories. And it stands out that Jodies scenes are always the weakest moments in every episode. She commands no presence and has been outshone by every other actor than she has been acting with. She is the hero, the main focus of this show and every week she wanders off doing her own thing, because she never has any chemistry with anyone she's sharing the screen with. So just seperate her from anyone else. That has been the mantra of late. It's a wise move, but it is telling.
Chris Chibnall has a truly incredible ability to make big revelations and reveals that are the crux of the story feel totally empty and meaningless. I was wondering at what point this season would fall apart, and this was it
Chibnall loves to come up with some really interesting ideas and/or characters (The Lone Cyberman, Techune finally showing up) and then he gets bored and kills them. I do give him props creating Brian Williams, one of the best characters of the Matt Smith years. Overall, though, his run as show runner was mediocre at best. In my humble opinion.
I posted my comment above about K.L.S. blurting out to Grand Serpent that she has psychic guard before reading this comment and then realised yep this is what you're talking bout...
Can we just all agree that the black snake tattoo on the hitman/waiter on the boat is the same as the Third Doctor's? And we're probably going to see some retcon that says he marked himself with it to remind himself to help fight The Grand Serpent's influence on UNIT.
I've literally stopped watching Ups and Downs. This is my go to videos for reviews which are honest and genuine. Thank you so much for continuing to do these videos and all the best for the future!
I will say that this series has had some good moments compared to the other ones from Chibnall. Throughout his era, there have been a few things that have been good. He made the Daleks intimidating again by having that single Dalek kill whenever it had the chance. It didn't just threaten humans to do what it wants, it took control or killed those who got in its way. The episode Rosa was okay though the antagonist was just a time travelling racist who just came out of nowhere and hasn't made an appearance since. The Village of the Angels was good. I actually liked the characters they encountered and the imagery with the angels was quite the sight. However, I was really hoping this whole Timeless Child nonsense to be resolved in this series. My original theory to this who is Ruth situation was that she was just a regular Timelord/Time Lady but used the Chameleon Arch to pose as the Doctor at one point. As shown before, it rewrites everything including every cell in the body and even generates a backstory for the user. Something like this could trick the sonic screwdriver. Though this flux series shows that Chibnall is determined to either ignore what the fans are saying or is attempting to prove us wrong by showing how good the Timeless Child arc really is. I'm personally not holding my breath. The show is called Doctor Who, but the 'who' should really remain a mystery. It's the question that must never be answered. To be honest, this whole extra past of the Doctor sounds like a fanfiction from M Night Shyamalan. Turns out the Doctor is practically Jesus of her own kind that she renegaded from and was once part of a secret division that she has no memory of....WHAT A TWIST. I do hope this final will be fun to watch. The setup has got me asking questions but hopefully, the answers will be satisfactory. I don't know how Russell T Davies is going to continue what has already been stained into the Doctor Who canon. Each show runner has added their own elements that kept the story moving, but Chibnall has changed all of that to an awkward stand still which does feel like his way to "permanently carve his name into Who". I know we still have the 58 years of Doctor Who canon that takes place between the Timeless Child to now. It doesn't change much physically but it does change the soul of Doctor Who and this whole situation asks more questions than answer them. I'm not going to pretend that Doctor Who wasn't full of plot holes up until this point but these new ones are quite big. My nit pick at the moment is why was Ruth's TARDIS a police box considering it appears this Doctor is before Hartnell's time where the Chameleon Circuit got "stuck". I know the current theory is that her time was between Troughton and Pertwee but the way they are hammering "This is the beginning of the Doctor", it's most likely not the case. Though I could be wrong. There are many more but now I'm droning on. I am looking forward to next Sunday. Allons-y.
I love your reviews. I completely agree with this - especially the Timeless Child nonsense and where Jo's Doctor should be in the timeline - and I didn't realize the Doctor didn't sonic anything this week until you said! Wow! 👍🏼❤️
It really just feels like the Flux and the Specials are just irritating obstacles to be overcome in order to get to the Russell T stuff. I'm really hoping that what remains of my interest can remain intact in order to get there.
I’m very much expecting the Flux finale to be very disappointing. I can’t see a way that there is enough time to resolve even half of the outstanding plot threads. Five episodes in and we know nothing about Swarm and Azure’s backstory and motivation, and they are the big villains of the season!
I'm kind of intrigued by the plot now, but at the same time I disapprove of it keeping the timeless child faff. I used to hope that it gets retconned by revealing it to be a plot of the Master... Well, if you were to do that now, it would be one grandiose megalomaniacal plan, and there would be one hell of a motivation for The Master to create such an elaborate hoax....
Anybody else wondering where (in 2021) the flux keeps going when we cut to Karvanista? The ships are there to shield earth while the flux strikes in episode one. They stay in formation. They develop gaps. Karvanista comes and goes from his ship to do missions and rescue Dan and stuff. Even the sontarans sneak back into orbit when the grand servant calls them forth... and there's no flux around earth. Where'd it go? You know, the big universe ending thing that's converging on earth? It vanished!
I does completely recontextualise the Doctor who is no longer someone who stole a TARDIS and ran away from the timelords to see the universe, but is now a godlike figure who is essentially immortal and the source of all timelord and gallifreyan society and isnt even a timelord. It undercuts their past as parent, a rebel in timelord society and their importance as a character who wasnt all powerful but did compassionate things to... what she is now. Plus it flubs the classic era origins of timelords and regeneration. It does more than add tp her story
They left the Doctor in a room guarded solely by an Ood she could manipulate, along with the machine causing the Flux and their one piece of leverage over her in the fob watch. Really?
You are completely right, the whole timeless child and "division" storyline is chris chibs' way of leaving his mark (all be it a mark in the shape of the middle finger) on the doctor who universe. It never clicked for me till you just mentioned it, i was always asking why the fuck is chris messing with the origins of the doctor and the origins of Gallifrey and the times lords. No one asled for it and many of us were actually against demystifying the mystery of DOCTOR WHO. Ego.... Thats the answer, EGO.
There was nothing to demystify. Why are people pretending the doctor was this character we know nothing about? This mysterious being? We already knew his story, there was no mystery there. Random man who grew up on gallifrey and entered the academy to become a time lord, he then runs away with his granddaughter to see the universe. That’s the Doctor, that’s literally who he was. Where is the mystery there?
I don't think it's ego, because Chibnall strikes me as a rather humble, down-to-earth man. I think he genuinely believes that his ideas are good, but he lacks the intelligence and writing talents of his predecessors as showrunner.
@@obiwankenobi687 u proved my point with ur question... Yeah we only knew that the doctor was some guy from the planet Gallifrey that became a timelord by looking into the untempered schism. The mystery was just that, the timelords are a mysterious bunch of ppl to watch over time and the laws of time and actually feel time shifting. We didnt need to know anything other than that. And taking all that and just say well actually timelords stole the whole regeneration ability from a "special" child (the doctor) by doing experiments on that poor child is just making the timelords so much less than what they are. And at the end of the day im just expressing my own opinion as u are free to express yours.
@@ftumschk maybe ur right, i dont know the guy personally but i do agree very much that he lacks the ability to write for doctor who specifically. I mean the writing for Broadchurch was incredibly well done.
I do hope that Russell T. Davies has some sort of writing Oxy-Clean to get out some of the marks that Chris Chibnall is leaving on the show... Seriously, I love Whittaker's Doctor and last week's episode was probably my favorite episode of her run and one of my favorite episodes in general, and I've tried to get on board with the timeless child stuff (I really enjoy Jo Martin's Doctor), but after this episode it really does feel like Chibnall is trying to unravel decades worth of backstory when we didn't ever need to go exploring the Doctor's origins that heavily. The Doctor works because they are a legend and a myth and yet standing in front of you acting bonkers in the face of danger. Demystify the Doctor too much and you lose some of the magic. Like, thinking back to Matt Smith's era, a lot of time was spent around the question of what is the Doctor's name. But Moffat knew that actually giving him a proper name would destroy the mysteriousness of who the Doctor is, and so it became more about who was asking the question and why rather than what the answer was. Chibnall seems to feel the need to give us answers to questions about the Doctor that we were never asking and expecting us to be grateful. Plus, Division's whole "we've been everywhere the whole time" is a story element I really dislike because unless all the previous series have hinted at some larger, hidden evil force at work, it doesn't make sense and is a cheap twist. It's like Blofeld telling Bond "I am the author of all your pain" when none of the previous movies ever hinted at Blofeld even existing.
I am pretty sure it is no coincidence that they hired RTD again. The man who revived the show once takes over after the current era has the fandom up in arms and the ratings are so bad that one more season of Chibnall would surely end in another hiatus. While I am not sure how RTD has evolved over the years, I am sure he will do his best to make the best out of this mess. At this point the best case scenario is that Chibnall himself pushes the reset-button by destroying universe 1.0 and leave RTD with a clean slate in 2.0. I believe that the name division has been chosen for a reason. Division of the Docs timeline maybe? Giving future showrunners the freedom to push the reset button at any time, because there are countless versions of the Doctor out there?
Things I liked about this episode - the Dan, Yaz, and Mr Gibbs, sorry, Prof Jericho story arc was entertaining. Giving Joseph Williamson a Yorkshire accent instead of a Scouse one is historically accurate. He grew up in Barnsley before moving to Liverpool. Things I didn't like about this episode - the continued overwriting of Time Lord history/lore. It's almost as if Rassilon and Omega never existed :-/ Unanswered questions - how did Dan, Yaz, and Prof Jericho escape from the village that we last saw trapped in a pocket dimension? How did they get the money to pay for their travels? What happened to Peggy? What happened to Claire? Can Tecteun regenerate after being disintegrated by Swarm? Who are Swarm and Azure anyway? I can only hope that in the future the dire travesty that the last three seasons of this show represent gets explained away as an aberration caused by the Time War and we can get back to the history/lore of the Time Lords that has made the show so popular with fans over the last 57 years. Predictions - Earth gets saved because it has impenetrable plot armour. It then gets moved to Universe 2.0 to give the writers of the show a clean slate to create fresh storylines unhindered by past events. The Daleks, Cybermen, et al also find a way to cross into Universe 2.0 because reasons. Swarm and Azure turn out to be NOT the "bad Guys" - they were trying to save as many people as possible from the Flux before moving them to Universe 2.0... Serious question now - how long before the Meddling Monk gets retconned as a Division operative?
The one thing I really appreciate about this series is a minor thing that hasn't been addressed in Who really which is that; up until this point at least, The Doctor always seems to conveniently be where (monster of the week here) is, at any given time. Whereas this episode and season basically confirms outright that there are 1) Times villains have been doing their own thing while The Doctor is somewhere else and 2) and this is really exciting, multiple stories in the Whoniverse take place at the same time at any given time. In this case, events of Flux, and Terror of the Autons (as heard through the Brigadier over the loudspeaker). This means, The Doctor may have very well just missed running into other versions of themself multiple times, which is totally possible when you travel time so much there's bound to be overlap. Then you get the multiverse, which can explain and rope in contradictions with Big Finish stories, kind of.
@@mr.manguy3692 Plus, do you really think the magically reassembled picture of a Weeping Angel (torn up I think by Claire?) will ever be explained? That tells you how bad Chibnall really is.
@@WokeBegone it's not explained how the angels have the ability to transport people back in time or why they need to have people looking away from them to move either. Also they've been using the TARDIS to get around like usual unless they end uo being taken.
@@WokeBegone Let's look at a few things not explained about Weeping Angels, shall we?: *Why Weeping Angels are able to cause lights to stop working.* *How they were able to steal Bob's and Jericho's voices.* *How they can be made real by imagery.* *How they can turn other statues into Angels.* *How the Statue of Liberty was able to walk in New York without anyone noticing.* *How looking into the eyes of an Angel turns you into one, but memories of an Angel, mental images, don't do anything.* *How an Angel can deadlock something with no deadlock.* But sure, it's the drawing being put back together that's unacceptable and means Chibnall is bad. Also, things don't have to be explained. Sometimes it's even hated, like when a whole bunch of exposition happens, which is literally defined as "a comprehensive description and *explanation* of an idea or theory."
What I really enjoyed from episode one was the mystery of the Williamson tunnels in Liverpool (a real thing btw). The Mole Man of Edge Hill made it to Doctor Who!
This is Chibs's version of the Scorched Earth Policy like, if I can't continue my destruction of the show, no one can. I'll destroy the show beyond all recognition. I'm still hopeful we'll get a decent satisfactory finale to Vinder and Bel's story. I love those two characters. I still hope that Dan and Yaz can get on with their lives. I hate the Sontarans coming back. There won't be enough time for them to be defeated in one hour.
I agree chibers seems to just be carving his name in Doc history, and I hope RTD gets round it in some way without making Jodie’s time irrelevant. I enjoy her in this role but I find some of the moments we’ve been given a bit flat or in some cases find myself screaming “well obviously” at the tv this series
My guess is, The doctor won’t open the watch and won’t get answers to the timeless child thing because it doesn’t matter. pretty much removing the importance of the timeless child.
There are a lot of good moments in this weeks episode, as there have been in all the episodes to be honest but, whilst you have to admire his ambition, Chibnall has bitten off more than he can chew. He clearly wanted a complex and multi layered story that would be remembered for the ages, he just doesn't know how to write one.
Why do I have a feeling that RTD is going to do one of two things, either 1) ignore the Flux destroying the Universe or 2) retcon the next universe into Pete's World.
This episode at least answered the question of what happened to Kate after that dumb little joke in "Resolution". Knew she wouldn't have just let UNIT go under like that.
Can I just ask who lit the candle in the temple/tomb with Yaz & Dan and where the F were they? And if u can just walk in and light a candle why not do that and if they were sneaking in, well they were bloody loud about it!! Just asking???
I agree with Lynn about low Yaz & the guys got out of the displaced village, but wanted to add to that question with what happened to the little girl? Did they leave her there by herself? Everyone else was gone and we know she grew up to be the older woman in the village. A couple lines of dialogue could be explained it
in my opinion. The Division behaves like any government that shapes things for its own benefit. The fact that Tecteun mentions that the Doctor is hopeful and that people start asking questions and that is troublesome for them. That is the same thinking of several countries with authoritarian governments in which they do not have the freedom to think and speak without retaliation, an example of that is what happened to Vinder. I think The Grand Serpent used a Vortex Manipulator to travel to earth and the same thing that happened to Captain Jack Happends to him was trapped in the past, being a snake he only changes his skin and his physique does not change at all, or simply he also has technology to travel through time. by the way Rose is trapped in a parallel universe, it is not another dimension, remember that to get there you have to cross the space between universes, and also I think that in Season Two with David Tennant the seed of The Organization was possibly planted, since when they get to Pete universe he mentions the following: Series 2x05 The Rise of the Cyberman... Mickey said to the Doctor: But I've seen it in comics, people go hopping from one alternative world to another, It´s Easy! The Doctor answer is: Not in the real world. Used to be Easy. When the Time Lords Kept their eye on everything, you could pop between realities, Home in time for tea. Then They died and took at all with them. The walls of reality closed. The worlds were sealed. Everything became that bit less Kind.
For me, this episode really did feel like Chris Chibnall finally returning to form, unfortunately. He shocked the heck out of me by creating something I genuinely found intriguing and exciting this season. I really didn't see that coming after his first two seasons. The confusion had all but left me, then this episode had me thinking "Ah, there we go. He's back."* I hope he had just one more relapse into competency when he wrote the finale. If it measures up to eps 2 or 4 that'll do nicely. *Subjective opinion only. Other opinions of Chibnall's writing talent as seen in previous Doctor Who seasons as well as this one are available. Opinion should be taken with a grain of salt or a chew of celery. Do not mix this opinion with alcohol. In case of side effects see your local pharmacist or Doctor.
I hope next week they manage to stop the Flux and anything else that will cause further destruction, but they keep the damage that has already been done to the universe. I hope they will carry that over to the specials which will focus on rebuilding the universe, which will lead to the Doctor having to sacrifice herself in order to restore it.
My guess: the first episode of Season 14, the new D|octor wakes up and realizes the past 3 years were a dream implanted by The Master! The Master vanishes, laughing, and the new Doctor spends the whole episode sorting out what's real from what's an implanted memory. This reduces Chibnuts to the nightmares caused by a bad curry, which he is. RETCON TO THE RESCUE! All we need to add is Captain Jack and we're gold.
I feel like for the sake of it being tied together Vinder and Bels child will end up being the timeless child. I don't want it but I can feel it. (why else would we be following them)
I liked this episode as it added more content to the Doctor's History also I enjoyed seeing Unit, the mention of Brigadier but also Kate's moment and threatening him with a call to the Doctor without saying the Doctor/ the end to the episode was a bit anti-climatic but I did like where it stopped just before he touched the Doctor's face, sort of reminded me of the Classic Doctor moments they did. Looking forward to the finale episodes and the specials also Curious and excited to see who the next Doctor is.
FYI I don't no if anyone has noticed but in the the newest preview to EP6 in Flux, in background behind Swarm where he is holding the Pocket Watch, over his right shoulder is a red looking circle with lines going out to the outer rim. I don't no when or where I saw this but Jodie is wearing a new broach on her left collar on her jacket of a simular looking design, her broach is a red tree. I'm thinking as Swarm has just jumped on, they are on a DIVISION spaceship still and that it the Division crest/Emblem on the wall. Going off the logo, to me is a picture of a tree and could mean family tree or the route of her family or... The Tree symbol says its branching out, hense what we found out into multiverses.
This does not feel like a penultimate episode. So many threads, so little time. Not that I want CC to have more time. Maybe with +3 specials he can conclude some things and still leave a universe that can be fixed and retconned by RTD. A girl can dream...
I don't think The Flux storyline will complete until the BBC centenary special next year. I'm actually thinking that with the news that the TARDIS set has been dismantled that we are actually going to see The Doctor die at the end of next year, like die die, no regeneration. The Flux happens, Universe 2 happens... and RTD gets to start with a clean slate. A new Universe, a new 1st Doctor leaves a new Galifrey... and it all starts again. With Bad Wolf potentially having Disney interest this clean slate gives the opportunity for a MCU style approach with a new Torchwood type spinoff etc etc etc The narrative Rich mentioned of the past is the past, the future is whats now important, I think this is possibly what is looking like likely to happen. On it's 60th Anniversary the Who story completely begins again. RTD is not coining in to fix, but to completely go with a fresh approach.
I can understand your concerns but for me I’ve warmed to the idea of the doctors revised origin story due to the way it seems to be being played. Instead of the Doctor being an unknowing God who was used and manipulated she was merely a being from a different race with presumably the same abilities that was kidnapped by the time lords and experimented on. I know that this wasn’t properly confirmed but just the scale this series seems to be playing with and the way the original child was referred to in that context seems to me like they’re aiming for a renewed sense of mystery about the Doctor’s origins rather than making her a big godlike figure just because other shows just so happen to do that. It’s flawed but it is more interesting than what the timeless child episode established and comes with more story potential as well as a new origin that we can build up like we did back in the shows early days The finale could absolutely bollocks this up, it is Chris Chibnall we’re talking about, but nevertheless I’m not as annoyed by the backstory as I was before Flux started
The issue I have with the "renewed mystery" approach is that it doesn't really work when the crux of said mystery is the Doctor herself not knowing, because this necessitates giving her the motivation *to* know, to find out about her past(s). Originally, the Doctor was a figure of intrigue, but it was us, the audience, who were in the dark about who this rather offish old duffer was. The Doctor knew perfectly well who he was, he was just extremely secretive, which made him all the more compelling as a character because he knew something we didn't. He seemed grand, powerful, and utterly mysterious. However, with this new attempt to bring some of that back and "re-mystify" the Doctor, the key difference is that the Doctor herself is clueless and that, in a way, makes her less impressive. Less interesting. It makes the Doctor an equal in our own ignorance. For me it just doesn't work in the same way. Fundamentally, the Doctor should be mysterious because they're an alien, from another world and another time; somebody that us humans can never truly comprehend despite the amount of time this strange individual spends among us. That's what makes the Doctor such a fascinating character, not because of their species, or any of their "hidden lives", or because they're a Chosen One archetype who came from another realm.
I also didn't (at first) like the Doctor being the Timeless Child, and have warmed to it, but I have always been confused why anyone has been referring to the Timeless Child as a god. It's a child that can repair itself. The only "god-like" status that could be somewhat seen was the child being the reason the Gallifreyans got so advanced, but they clearly didn't see it as a god since they put it to work for the Division. Also, didn't the Timeless children episode already say the wormhole led to another universe?
@@jphaggerty9046 I do agree, which is what I mean when I say I prefer the direction they’re going in. If the Doctor gets her memories back but we don’t get to see what they are then they will be shrouded in mystery again. It’ll be like it was in the sixties where we won’t know how many people she has been, what she has even done etc.
Williamson makes me think Bel and Vinder (and presumably their child) will be important. Every other random character who has been in the plot has turned out to be in the show for a reason, so presumably they will matter too. Also, the longer they're separated the more I worry that one, other or both will die before this is all over I definitely think Tec (can't be bothered to type the whole name out) is either being dishonest or was mistaken, after all the only proof we have that the Doctor fell through the portal *is* Tec's claim
Im thinking that Bel IS the Doctor's mother and the Doctor gets born on Earth. Bel will probably die. I think this will be why the Doctor is so tied to Earth.
I thought I might give the episode a score of 6.5 as well... Except out of 100! As you say in the review, I just get the impression that Chibnall wants to be remembered as the person who reinvented Doctor Who, albeit at the expense of continuity, character and good story telling
On first watching I was very confused with it and towards the end seemingly understood. Upon second watching I thought it was a lot better however what disappointed me more was how it completely destroys 58 years of Doctor Who. Where were the division during the time war or did the division cause the time war? While it’s a really great concept there is a splinter group from Gallifrey it’s still ask more questions than answers and Chris isn’t capable of giving good answers. I said that I do feel the stakes are very high for Jodie and the characters and I do hope that it gets resolved in a satisfying way but like you I want the timeless child stuff to be eradicated completely. I think flux has definitely been the best of the entire era and I hope that trend continues into her regeneration but I want the whole child nonsense to be eradicated. I think your score is pretty fair
Downplaying Dr Who's history. You nailed it with that line. Continuity is more than a few nods here and there to past stories, but an integration of the lore without constant revision. There is an art to continuity in Who, and this isn't it!
For me, this jumping around the plot with different issues and no explanation, where it only is reveals bit by bit, is a so overdone and overused trope. I am so done with seeing people suddenly in places where you think "wtf, what are they doing here", just to jump back to where we know the situation, to jump back to the wtf, to then get to the end of the episode to actually start to get the faintest idea what is going on in the B-plot. It is one thing to make this a bit more coherent if you don't jump between confusing B-plot and normal A-plot, but by just focusing the complete story on this confusing jumping around.
I think the timeless child could be retconned by the master being tektayun either having regenerated from being on gallifrey when the death particle went off or they are disguising themselves somehow but I can't figure out how they would survive getting Thanosed by the swarm and azure
Imagine how the fan base will implode when Chibbs makes them the Doctors parents, he already messed the lore all up, might as well finish it off…lol (God I hope he doesn’t).
Knock over all the pins? You know Chibnall is going to knock down 1 maybe 2 pins (badly), forget about the rest and put up a few more 🤦♂️ And I too HATE the timeless child arc. I’m intrigued that you want the missing doctor to be between 2 and 3 - how would that work?
Troughton to Pertwee is the only regeneration not shown explicitly in the series, there was a theory that Ruth/Fugitive Doctor may only fit between two and three if she was to be post-Hartnell, as she still used the Tardis that was stuck during the first season of the show, that is to say, during Hartnell's time.
I hope the timeless child thing doesn't exist in the end, although in the best case that the ruth doctor is placed somewhere in the last 13 incarnations then that just cancels out matt smiths finale :/
The Ruth doctor is placed in the gap between the 2nd and 3rd doctors, which is why she has her TARDIS as a policebox. The 2nd and 3rd doctor gap is the only place where she could be easily positioned, as this is the only one where we never saw the 2nd doctor regenerate into the 3rd doctor.
Agree with your five pins, but bonus points to CC if he can resolve some of the plot holes and innumerable loose ends (like how exactly did the quantum extraction get resolved back in Medderton? Oh, and, Claire anyone?). And extra bonus points if that poor vicar ever shows up :)
I think it's bang on that the division story arc will get resolved in the New Year Special; they have too many plots going on that is unresolved and to do it in one episode and do justice is damn near impossible. I have a feeling that in the end of the New Year Special, the doctor will decide (willingly or unwillingly) to open the fob and thereby releasing all her memories. And by doing so, she will regenerate into someone new, leaving endless possibilities for the rest of the season and the next to come.
Not to spoil anything, but the cast of the New years special and the storyteaser don't seem like this episode will reveal anything. It seems to be a more light hearted episode like previous specials.
It's so bad, nothing makes sense and everything is rushed. How is Chibs this bad? It's like he's doing it on purpose & intends to irreparably damage the show. Just depressing to watch now. Don't understand how or why Chibs was ever given so much control, everyone at the BBC lost their minds?
The hat and the glasses is a really good look... Great video as usual... Apart from Kate Stewart, the ood and grand serpant this episode was a dumbster fire
As I said on another review of this episode, while I don't see it happening, I am hoping that the chameleon arch opening at the end of the episode will undo all of the timeless child bullcrap. I'm hoping the memories it holds retcon the timeless child stuff by giving the actual truth. And that the Doctor being the Timeless Child really was just a huge lie. I'm hoping, but I already know this isn't gonna be happening.
Why would Tecteun say that the Doctor was the Timeless Child and then say that she can have her memories back, only for it to be revealed that it was a lie anyway? It doesn't make sense.
You're wrong, Chibnall will never explain how that torn picture of the Weeping Angels magically reassembled... for no good reason. No amount of bowling pins will put that right.
Im not against the 'idea' of the timeless child but its been done in a way that just tramples all over everything before including old who, which chibnall is meant to be a fan of. Division just makes no narrative sense, where the fuck were they previously. Am I meant to believe they are the architects of previous events, they just let the daleks move planets around the universe and all the multiple events to destroy the universe? Its just impossible, they cant even be bothered to retroactively add anything to previous stories to show Divisions influence. It is changing things forever and has completely let the multiverse cat out the bag. Its just becaome a DBZ power increase fest and I just dont see a way back.
Look up what happened in 1904. Your eye should be drawn to Aleister Crowley claiming this is the year a disembodied voice dictated The Book of the Law to him. Look at the places Aleister Crowley traveled to including mountaineering in the Himalayas. And Crowley's book talks of an Aeon of Isis (matriarchy, Tecteun?), Aeon of Osiris (patriarchy, Rassilon?) and a coming Aeon of Horus (child, Timeless Child? Doctor?).
I "liked" the dialogue delivered by Tecteun in that WOW, it was effective in making you loathe her in the space of just a few minutes. Added kudos to that as she is/was played by Barbara Flynn who just naturally beams cuddly warmth. But nope, full on Mengele vibes delivered! hey, maybe this is why it's called acting?
It kind of left me cold tbh, and it doesn't feel like a cliffhanger leading into the finale of a six part story. Just... another part of the unfocussed bland spectacle. And I realise bland spectacle is an oxymoron, but that's what I feel.
This is a great review, a lot better than another review on a different you tube channel, keep up the great work. I though it was a really good episode
Agreed that this wasn't a top episode. But 7. Glad to see the back of Tectuan. The tunnels under Liverpool, are going to lead to all sorts of stuff. The hermit... The next regen of the Doctor? Kate leading the resistance... Yes The Grand Serpent having been around on earth all this time, makes Vinder much older than he seems... Time travel? Time Lord?
If they want to continue the Timeless Child story, WHILE keeping our story, is make it where she trapped the Timeless Child DNA in the watch and when the Doctors DNA was rewritten, The woman with the T name (I wasn’t about to type that) gave the Doctor the same amount of regenerations as all other Time Lords. It would explain how Hartnell is our first Doctor, and that Smiths Doctor was granted more regenerations.
As long as it pays off in episode 6 and ends with Jodie’s run then any following series can move forward with this plot line being just a shadow in the background. This is Jodie’s best run in the her gig so far imo, hopefully the doctor can just be the doctor going forward.
watching this season is strange. throughout this season theres been "well that was ok but where does it lead" and given how the other seasons went it its like im waiting to see how bad the end is (everything coming together anything else destroyed etc) before i can enjoy any episodes
I don’t know why, but the fact that Yaz, Dan and Jericho just leapt forward 3 years kinda bugged me.
The last episode ended with them stuck in a village that had been quantum extracted. They were stuck floating in the middle of space and that space was slowly enclosing in on village.
Did the Angels just plonk them back into their timelines? If so, why? The episode went out of its way to remind us the Angels delighted in tormenting and torturing people.
And what became of the little girl? (Penny/Peggy?) She was important enough that Yaz and Dan spent most of the last episode protecting her and now she’s….where? All her family are dead, so even in the 1960s she would have had nowhere to go.
Same with Claire. Was she released as the Angel’s envoy/vessel? Or did they just kill her now they had no use for her?
I’m not saying this needed to take up a significant amount of time - all it would have required would have been a couple of comments from the characters so that we as the audience knew what happened.
I guess because this is a serial, rather than a series of stand-alone episodes, this leap in time bugged me more than it should, but it just felt like too big a plot point to just ignore
Well I mean, if its a choice of saving an abandoned child with no family and a world war veteran who can totally handle himself and be more useful to their cause... Yaz is cold as ice.
YES. THIS. ALL OF THIS.
I agree a lot of unanswered questions
I believe somewhere in the angels episode it was explained that the whole village (including land) only completely disappeared in 1967, the people disappeared in 1901 (and I assume the land too, for a while) but the land had to have been there for the second time which also explains how Peggy got back.
Claire will be in the next episode so I'm guessing we might get some answers to these questions then
When Moffat started: "Yay! We've got rid of RTD, now it's time for someone who can write more than soap operas."
When Chibnall started: "Yay! We've got rid of Moffat, now it's time for someone who can write more than mystery boxes."
When RTD starts: "Yay! We've got rid of Chibbers, now it's time for someone who can write. At all."
I think you hit the nail on the head about CC just wanting to permanently carve his name into Who, and not caring what anyone else thinks. Even making New Years Specials and having them on Sundays, as opposed to Christmas and Saturdays. Sure it's minor, but ut still screamed "we're doing this MY way."
There are ways of putting your mark on Who without completely re-writing 58 years of Who lore. Look at RTD and the time war, or Moffat with the War Doctor (or finding a way to keep the doctor regenerating beyond 12) Both bridge the Classic and New Who together, both built on Who lore, but maintained the mythos and core of Who.
All I know is that RTD has hos work cut out for him to restore Who to it's pre-CC glory
He did also say that the BBC had to convince him to run the show, which suggests that he had some specific terms for doing so.
He hasn’t rewritten 58 years of lore. Why do people say this? This implies that 58 years of content has been wiped or completely and irreparably changed and twisted and made mute. When this literally isn’t the case at all. The entire story of Doctor who from 1963 all the way to 2021 still runs exactly the same as it always did. There’s simply just a little bit of extra added onto the time period before the shows official beginning
@@obiwankenobi687 BBC: We decided to turn the Doctor into a cannibal baby eater. But don't worry, there is still 50+ years of canon where they aren't eatting babies. At least on screen, just know off camera they've been eatting babies all along!
Same energy, the Timeless Child does affect the lore retroactively. You like or just don't mind the change, good for you. That doesn't mean it isn't a major change to the character that can negatively affect the way people view them.
Yes, people can still enjoy the older stuff, but that doesn't mean they are obliged to continue watching if they hate what has been done.
@@stryletz there’s literally no comparison there at all. The history of the show DOES run exactly the same. It doesn’t undo a single thing that has happened. It just adds more before Hartnell. She works for the division, gets reset back to a child, gets her memories wiped, grows up into William Hartnell and the entire show literally runs as normal with no changes at all
@@obiwankenobi687 My only problem with that explanation is why? Why reset the doctor to a child and let them live without any memories? I suppose we will get some 'explanation' of events, but the fact that the doctor has infinite regenerations does effect the past. When Matt Smith became really old and was about to die why did he not regenerate by himself? Regenerations just happen, doctors in the past have tried to hold on for longer but it will happen when it needs to. To me adding all the previous doctors before Hartnell is a slap in the face to the man who was the original beloved character. Now he's just the first doctor that was shown to us. Also, doctor is a name Clara suggested to Hartnell so I am not sure how the Ruth doctor is also 'Doctor'. The previous incarnations just come off as mindless diversity to show that the doctor doesn't have to be white - they literally show a kid from a different race in every shot in that one scene of experimentation. Where does an interdimensional being even get the ability to change races from? His/her race was never important, they were just a time lord - well not anymore I guess.
1. How did Yas et al escaped the village that was literally floating in space and collapsing? Also what did they do with the kid?
2. Why was Dan a stowaway at all?
3. Were was the rouge luparin ship going and as you say why couldn’t he just take control of that one?
4. Why would some blankets stop a bundle of dynamite and couldn’t Yas just cut the fuse?
5. How does Chibnall keep getting work?
Asking the REAL questions!
how about what is happening to the TARDIS?
@@alexandergodwin2175 time was running wild, at the end of ep 2, swarm said that the time was damaging the tardis
@@feliscatus4922 Thank you. I missed that.
the kid stayed behind so that she could become the woman that we've seen
If Chibnall is going to destroy the universe and go to another one. Why?
All of the companions and history left to dust just feels like a slap in the face to the impact of the Doctor Who universe. I don't know how RTD would fix this, if he will.
Maybe Doctor will gets to Rose universe. And they are going to have: A fantastic!...Triple XD
@@lucasnoxman8714 But if they do that, Multi-Doctor Stories will be impossible. If the main Universe Ends that won't just kill All of the old Companions, it will kill all the old Doctor's, If the Universe Explodes/gets destroyed, Time itself disappears. So The Doctor wouldn't have a Past, so The Doctor would remember her previous incarnations, but they wouldn't exist at all in the Universe.
@SilentWraith Speaking of "MultiDoctor"stories...the is something so odd about this, in basic story telling logick-If the Flux is so powerfull that he tearing the time it self apat'spoiler alert' the past doctors lived in space and y
time 😂😂😂Is leterally imposible for them, not to see event of masive distruction like Flux and and didnt help himself. In Moffat stories like pandorica timline it was small and sliw distruction, that hapen like that and he cant help himself. This logick also faild in the Imposible astronaut storyline , where time was corupted, even if limited on Earth, woud mean that there should be all all of them, because Doctor is on eart more time for one week, that you went to your nearest Tesco to buy a milkiway. By just baisic logic, if time is dieing across the whole uneverse...some of the Docyors would noticed. But i thing, what Chibby wants to do, is that the universe we see every day for pas almost 60year, is actualy second or even ani number he saw on calendar, and Ruth + regenerations will be from that past universes. I still hope that RTD will do something i sad here in another coment, that the Doctress is in coma from fall in ep1s11 and her body is dieing, and the Flux is just a dream interpreting whats happening to her body as she going to regenareted.
@@martinmacko6409 Well don't forget, the Theory of The Doctor being in a Coma after her fall would be Redundant. Time Lords can survive deadly injuries for 15 Hours after their Regeneration. The Tenth Doctor was Disarmed (Quite Literally and grew it back) - River Song was sprayed with Bullets by Nazi Soldiers. and The Thirteenth Doctor fell from her Predecessor's TARDIS immediately after her regeneration.
@@silentwraithuk well dream time😂
There is SO MUCH going on in this series that there is zero chance next week will be a satisfying resolution in any way.
1)Sooooo....what happened to Peggy?
2)How did they escape from that village?
3)Where did they get the money to go around the world?
4)If Division is so powerful, why is there only one little old woman (Aswok/Tecteun) and an Ood manning the place? Where's the security? You'd think she'd have some kind of personal protection device or personal forcefield or teleportation device or SOMETHING to prevent herself from getting assassinated...
5)Why wouldn't the Flux just instantly wipe out everything all in one go?
Peggy probably just stayed there to become Mrs Hayward. The angels wouldn't need them anymore so just release the quantum extraction. 3 I have no clue about. She didn't say division is powerful. She said it influences a lot. So it has operatives and they do work. But she's in between 2 universes. She really doesn't need security. Who's gonna think to themselves I'm gonna jump in between two universes to annoy tecteun. Swarm and Azure are just people who have too much time on their hands. So tecteun basically thinks no one will try to assassinate her. Number 5. Again they are in between universes. To make an event as big as the flux is hard enough. But to wipe out an entire universe with it whilst also trying to get from one universe to another is just nearly impossible.
I'm very confused on how Yaz, Dan, and Jerico got out of the village in 1901. Like... last week when they went to the edge of the village it was just nothing but space. The whole village had been quantum extracted. Did the Angles just... put them back? Why would they? They like being cruel.
My guess is that they were tasked to capture the Doctor and only that. After that, they put things where they were. The Judoon made a fuss in the Futitive Doctor episode but were told to behave.
There's definitely an implication that the village was returned-- both in 1901 and in 1967. During the scene where General Farquhar and the Grand Serpent are at UNIT's new complex in 1967, it's mentioned that UNIT conducted an operation to the village after all of the residents had disappeared, and the TARDIS had been recovered from where the Doctor had left it in the previous episode. I don't think it's ever stated outright, but I believe we're meant to take that as an indication that it was returned in 1901 as well.
As for _why_ the Angels would put them back... I suppose it could be argued that the Angels forcing the companions to watch the Doctor being converted into an Angel and captured really was the cruelest part. That was what the Angels wanted most. After they got that, I guess the Angels might think that putting the companions back on Earth and leaving them there, stranded in the past without the Doctor, would have no negative consequences for them. Not to mention, just _leaving_ the village in quantum extraction might have caused some sort of paradox, since the village had to have been in its normal place after being depopulated in 1901 in order for the extraction in 1967 to proceed the way that it did.
Maybe they were obtuse angles.
It was "super easy, barely an inconvenience" just a cool montage of them leaping 3 years without any explanation.
I will explain it later.....
It felt a bit like an info dump, I'm not sure why they didn't spread the grand serpent UNIT scenes throughout the series instead of just throwing them all here. It's strange it felt like almost a whole new plotline coming out of nowhere (even though they kind of linked it to the rest of the goings on with the sontarans) I know the character featured previously but he didn't seem to have any relation to earth. (Unrelated but his characters reminds me a lot of the master from the doctor who movie with his strange snake abilities)
Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about the sontarans showing back up, after they were already defeated a few episodes ago it's a little exhausting for them to just show up and be a threat again (especially when that threat is sort of undermined by their previous defeat by a handful of people) They were great this season and their storyline felt like almost a nice self contained plot so them just popping up again at this late stage seems a bit pointless to me personally.
I also feel like the main villains are a bit bland (swarm and azure), they seem to simply be entities that want to cause as much mayhem as possible without much more depth to them. I was waiting for the show to give us a bit more information on them and characterise them a bit more but at this stage with so much to wrap up that seems unlikely. They also seem ridiculously powerful in terms of they can seemingly teleport and kill you with one touch. A threatening villain is great, but when you set a character up as essentially all powerful it'll be hard for the doctor to defeat them without it coming off as a bit cheap.
This season seems ultimately too chaotic in a way, like they could have done with a few more episodes to flesh out some of these plots and develop some of these characters, let things breathe a little. That all being said like mentioned in the video, if they manage to bring it all together somehow and stick the landing then who knows.
A great balanced review in general, great job.
Don’t worry about the threatening villain that can kill you with one touch… just do what The Doctor does and imaginatively duck past and run away to the other side of the room from them 🫣
Cheers Rich, I enjoyed the episode but can see the frustration that it is causing some people. This really is chibbers best series but he's trying to put a square peg in a round hole along with the triangle pentagon and dodecahedron
1:30 I think that sort of thing would have been more suited to characters like Rassilon. He's a well-established egocentric despot, and his meddling has been alluded to quite a bit. Why not go the Big Finish route and have him commit some more crimes against creation itself? You wouldn't have had to contrive a new and very shallowly written villain that way.
I find I don't mind the change to the Doctor's backstory so much as the way it was presented: basically, the Master putting the Doctor in a room and showing home movies.
It's truly mind-boggling how often Chibs seems to think it's compelling television to put the Doctor in a room, for the Doctor to have no idea whats going on, and for another character to explain the plot at her for long stretches of dialogue while both actors strain to inject passion and emotion into a dead scene.
This isnt good drama. This isnt a good way to use the Doctor. The Doctor is the hero of the show, not a witness or victim of the show's events.
@@captbuckyohare5585 That's the thing. It wasn't even the plot. The plot had to do with the Master and Cybermen. You could have removed all of that exposition and just defaulted to "the Master is crazy" and it would have made little difference.
Hmmm much like what Loki watched at the TVA about his life Similar eh?
@@donnalevasseur4818 No. That laid out important information about the TVA, the Sacred Timeline, variants, etc. The Timeless Child had no bearing on the plot. At least in Flux, Division is directly involved.
@@johnsensebe3153 This season threw so much stuff at us that I have actually forgotten that the Cybermen were involved in all of this as well. I just had to post a wall of text as a comment, but it just shows that Chibnall is just bad at telling stories. And it stands out that Jodies scenes are always the weakest moments in every episode. She commands no presence and has been outshone by every other actor than she has been acting with. She is the hero, the main focus of this show and every week she wanders off doing her own thing, because she never has any chemistry with anyone she's sharing the screen with. So just seperate her from anyone else. That has been the mantra of late. It's a wise move, but it is telling.
Chris Chibnall has a truly incredible ability to make big revelations and reveals that are the crux of the story feel totally empty and meaningless. I was wondering at what point this season would fall apart, and this was it
Very very good point, and easily forgotten amid all the "torn picture reassembles because... reasons" bullshit Chibnall garbage storytelling.
Chibnall loves to come up with some really interesting ideas and/or characters (The Lone Cyberman, Techune finally showing up) and then he gets bored and kills them. I do give him props creating Brian Williams, one of the best characters of the Matt Smith years. Overall, though, his run as show runner was mediocre at best. In my humble opinion.
I posted my comment above about K.L.S. blurting out to Grand Serpent that she has psychic guard before reading this comment and then realised yep this is what you're talking bout...
Can we just all agree that the black snake tattoo on the hitman/waiter on the boat is the same as the Third Doctor's? And we're probably going to see some retcon that says he marked himself with it to remind himself to help fight The Grand Serpent's influence on UNIT.
I've literally stopped watching Ups and Downs. This is my go to videos for reviews which are honest and genuine. Thank you so much for continuing to do these videos and all the best for the future!
Me too
I will say that this series has had some good moments compared to the other ones from Chibnall. Throughout his era, there have been a few things that have been good. He made the Daleks intimidating again by having that single Dalek kill whenever it had the chance. It didn't just threaten humans to do what it wants, it took control or killed those who got in its way. The episode Rosa was okay though the antagonist was just a time travelling racist who just came out of nowhere and hasn't made an appearance since. The Village of the Angels was good. I actually liked the characters they encountered and the imagery with the angels was quite the sight.
However, I was really hoping this whole Timeless Child nonsense to be resolved in this series. My original theory to this who is Ruth situation was that she was just a regular Timelord/Time Lady but used the Chameleon Arch to pose as the Doctor at one point. As shown before, it rewrites everything including every cell in the body and even generates a backstory for the user. Something like this could trick the sonic screwdriver. Though this flux series shows that Chibnall is determined to either ignore what the fans are saying or is attempting to prove us wrong by showing how good the Timeless Child arc really is. I'm personally not holding my breath. The show is called Doctor Who, but the 'who' should really remain a mystery. It's the question that must never be answered. To be honest, this whole extra past of the Doctor sounds like a fanfiction from M Night Shyamalan. Turns out the Doctor is practically Jesus of her own kind that she renegaded from and was once part of a secret division that she has no memory of....WHAT A TWIST.
I do hope this final will be fun to watch. The setup has got me asking questions but hopefully, the answers will be satisfactory. I don't know how Russell T Davies is going to continue what has already been stained into the Doctor Who canon. Each show runner has added their own elements that kept the story moving, but Chibnall has changed all of that to an awkward stand still which does feel like his way to "permanently carve his name into Who". I know we still have the 58 years of Doctor Who canon that takes place between the Timeless Child to now. It doesn't change much physically but it does change the soul of Doctor Who and this whole situation asks more questions than answer them. I'm not going to pretend that Doctor Who wasn't full of plot holes up until this point but these new ones are quite big. My nit pick at the moment is why was Ruth's TARDIS a police box considering it appears this Doctor is before Hartnell's time where the Chameleon Circuit got "stuck". I know the current theory is that her time was between Troughton and Pertwee but the way they are hammering "This is the beginning of the Doctor", it's most likely not the case. Though I could be wrong. There are many more but now I'm droning on.
I am looking forward to next Sunday. Allons-y.
I love the energy you suddenly brought up when you mentioned the sonic,
it was very nice
I love your reviews. I completely agree with this - especially the Timeless Child nonsense and where Jo's Doctor should be in the timeline - and I didn't realize the Doctor didn't sonic anything this week until you said! Wow! 👍🏼❤️
It really just feels like the Flux and the Specials are just irritating obstacles to be overcome in order to get to the Russell T stuff. I'm really hoping that what remains of my interest can remain intact in order to get there.
same, this series and the specials to keep feel like an exercise in futility. like Rogue One, i'm just waiting for characters to die
@@GoddessOfWhim2003 Ah, but I loved Rogue One - it made up for the Disney sequels, which I consider akin to the Chibnall DW.
@@voda07760 oh yeah, Rogue One is very good, but i still knew they were all gonna die
I’m very much expecting the Flux finale to be very disappointing. I can’t see a way that there is enough time to resolve even half of the outstanding plot threads. Five episodes in and we know nothing about Swarm and Azure’s backstory and motivation, and they are the big villains of the season!
Chibs leaving his mark on Doctor Who, like the way dogs urinate to mark their territory ; - )
I'm kind of intrigued by the plot now, but at the same time I disapprove of it keeping the timeless child faff. I used to hope that it gets retconned by revealing it to be a plot of the Master...
Well, if you were to do that now, it would be one grandiose megalomaniacal plan, and there would be one hell of a motivation for The Master to create such an elaborate hoax....
Anybody else wondering where (in 2021) the flux keeps going when we cut to Karvanista? The ships are there to shield earth while the flux strikes in episode one. They stay in formation. They develop gaps. Karvanista comes and goes from his ship to do missions and rescue Dan and stuff. Even the sontarans sneak back into orbit when the grand servant calls them forth... and there's no flux around earth. Where'd it go? You know, the big universe ending thing that's converging on earth? It vanished!
The Timeless Child story line doesn’t undo what has happened with the Doctor. It just adds backstory we didn’t know about.
I does completely recontextualise the Doctor who is no longer someone who stole a TARDIS and ran away from the timelords to see the universe, but is now a godlike figure who is essentially immortal and the source of all timelord and gallifreyan society and isnt even a timelord. It undercuts their past as parent, a rebel in timelord society and their importance as a character who wasnt all powerful but did compassionate things to... what she is now.
Plus it flubs the classic era origins of timelords and regeneration.
It does more than add tp her story
They left the Doctor in a room guarded solely by an Ood she could manipulate, along with the machine causing the Flux and their one piece of leverage over her in the fob watch. Really?
You are completely right, the whole timeless child and "division" storyline is chris chibs' way of leaving his mark (all be it a mark in the shape of the middle finger) on the doctor who universe. It never clicked for me till you just mentioned it, i was always asking why the fuck is chris messing with the origins of the doctor and the origins of Gallifrey and the times lords. No one asled for it and many of us were actually against demystifying the mystery of DOCTOR WHO. Ego.... Thats the answer, EGO.
We never had an origins to the Doctor and Gallifrey until now.
There was nothing to demystify. Why are people pretending the doctor was this character we know nothing about? This mysterious being? We already knew his story, there was no mystery there. Random man who grew up on gallifrey and entered the academy to become a time lord, he then runs away with his granddaughter to see the universe. That’s the Doctor, that’s literally who he was. Where is the mystery there?
I don't think it's ego, because Chibnall strikes me as a rather humble, down-to-earth man. I think he genuinely believes that his ideas are good, but he lacks the intelligence and writing talents of his predecessors as showrunner.
@@obiwankenobi687 u proved my point with ur question... Yeah we only knew that the doctor was some guy from the planet Gallifrey that became a timelord by looking into the untempered schism. The mystery was just that, the timelords are a mysterious bunch of ppl to watch over time and the laws of time and actually feel time shifting. We didnt need to know anything other than that. And taking all that and just say well actually timelords stole the whole regeneration ability from a "special" child (the doctor) by doing experiments on that poor child is just making the timelords so much less than what they are. And at the end of the day im just expressing my own opinion as u are free to express yours.
@@ftumschk maybe ur right, i dont know the guy personally but i do agree very much that he lacks the ability to write for doctor who specifically. I mean the writing for Broadchurch was incredibly well done.
I do hope that Russell T. Davies has some sort of writing Oxy-Clean to get out some of the marks that Chris Chibnall is leaving on the show... Seriously, I love Whittaker's Doctor and last week's episode was probably my favorite episode of her run and one of my favorite episodes in general, and I've tried to get on board with the timeless child stuff (I really enjoy Jo Martin's Doctor), but after this episode it really does feel like Chibnall is trying to unravel decades worth of backstory when we didn't ever need to go exploring the Doctor's origins that heavily. The Doctor works because they are a legend and a myth and yet standing in front of you acting bonkers in the face of danger. Demystify the Doctor too much and you lose some of the magic. Like, thinking back to Matt Smith's era, a lot of time was spent around the question of what is the Doctor's name. But Moffat knew that actually giving him a proper name would destroy the mysteriousness of who the Doctor is, and so it became more about who was asking the question and why rather than what the answer was. Chibnall seems to feel the need to give us answers to questions about the Doctor that we were never asking and expecting us to be grateful. Plus, Division's whole "we've been everywhere the whole time" is a story element I really dislike because unless all the previous series have hinted at some larger, hidden evil force at work, it doesn't make sense and is a cheap twist. It's like Blofeld telling Bond "I am the author of all your pain" when none of the previous movies ever hinted at Blofeld even existing.
I am pretty sure it is no coincidence that they hired RTD again. The man who revived the show once takes over after the current era has the fandom up in arms and the ratings are so bad that one more season of Chibnall would surely end in another hiatus. While I am not sure how RTD has evolved over the years, I am sure he will do his best to make the best out of this mess. At this point the best case scenario is that Chibnall himself pushes the reset-button by destroying universe 1.0 and leave RTD with a clean slate in 2.0. I believe that the name division has been chosen for a reason. Division of the Docs timeline maybe? Giving future showrunners the freedom to push the reset button at any time, because there are countless versions of the Doctor out there?
Things I liked about this episode - the Dan, Yaz, and Mr Gibbs, sorry, Prof Jericho story arc was entertaining.
Giving Joseph Williamson a Yorkshire accent instead of a Scouse one is historically accurate. He grew up in Barnsley before moving to Liverpool.
Things I didn't like about this episode - the continued overwriting of Time Lord history/lore. It's almost as if Rassilon and Omega never existed :-/
Unanswered questions - how did Dan, Yaz, and Prof Jericho escape from the village that we last saw trapped in a pocket dimension?
How did they get the money to pay for their travels?
What happened to Peggy?
What happened to Claire?
Can Tecteun regenerate after being disintegrated by Swarm?
Who are Swarm and Azure anyway?
I can only hope that in the future the dire travesty that the last three seasons of this show represent gets explained away as an aberration caused by the Time War and we can get back to the history/lore of the Time Lords that has made the show so popular with fans over the last 57 years.
Predictions - Earth gets saved because it has impenetrable plot armour. It then gets moved to Universe 2.0 to give the writers of the show a clean slate to create fresh storylines unhindered by past events. The Daleks, Cybermen, et al also find a way to cross into Universe 2.0 because reasons.
Swarm and Azure turn out to be NOT the "bad Guys" - they were trying to save as many people as possible from the Flux before moving them to Universe 2.0...
Serious question now - how long before the Meddling Monk gets retconned as a Division operative?
The one thing I really appreciate about this series is a minor thing that hasn't been addressed in Who really which is that; up until this point at least, The Doctor always seems to conveniently be where (monster of the week here) is, at any given time. Whereas this episode and season basically confirms outright that there are 1) Times villains have been doing their own thing while The Doctor is somewhere else and 2) and this is really exciting, multiple stories in the Whoniverse take place at the same time at any given time. In this case, events of Flux, and Terror of the Autons (as heard through the Brigadier over the loudspeaker). This means, The Doctor may have very well just missed running into other versions of themself multiple times, which is totally possible when you travel time so much there's bound to be overlap. Then you get the multiverse, which can explain and rope in contradictions with Big Finish stories, kind of.
The show has touched on that with 'the doctors wife' where the TARDIS even says she takes him where he needs to be.
@@mr.manguy3692 Except they keep getting transported everywhere *WITHOUT* the TARDIS.
@@mr.manguy3692 Plus, do you really think the magically reassembled picture of a Weeping Angel (torn up I think by Claire?) will ever be explained? That tells you how bad Chibnall really is.
@@WokeBegone it's not explained how the angels have the ability to transport people back in time or why they need to have people looking away from them to move either. Also they've been using the TARDIS to get around like usual unless they end uo being taken.
@@WokeBegone Let's look at a few things not explained about Weeping Angels, shall we?:
*Why Weeping Angels are able to cause lights to stop working.*
*How they were able to steal Bob's and Jericho's voices.*
*How they can be made real by imagery.*
*How they can turn other statues into Angels.*
*How the Statue of Liberty was able to walk in New York without anyone noticing.*
*How looking into the eyes of an Angel turns you into one, but memories of an Angel, mental images, don't do anything.*
*How an Angel can deadlock something with no deadlock.*
But sure, it's the drawing being put back together that's unacceptable and means Chibnall is bad.
Also, things don't have to be explained. Sometimes it's even hated, like when a whole bunch of exposition happens, which is literally defined as "a comprehensive description and *explanation* of an idea or theory."
What I really enjoyed from episode one was the mystery of the Williamson tunnels in Liverpool (a real thing btw). The Mole Man of Edge Hill made it to Doctor Who!
I’ve been refreshing for HOURS
the DEDICATION
Ah you too ? 😂
This is Chibs's version of the Scorched Earth Policy like, if I can't continue my destruction of the show, no one can. I'll destroy the show beyond all recognition. I'm still hopeful we'll get a decent satisfactory finale to Vinder and Bel's story. I love those two characters. I still hope that Dan and Yaz can get on with their lives. I hate the Sontarans coming back. There won't be enough time for them to be defeated in one hour.
I agree chibers seems to just be carving his name in Doc history, and I hope RTD gets round it in some way without making Jodie’s time irrelevant.
I enjoy her in this role but I find some of the moments we’ve been given a bit flat or in some cases find myself screaming “well obviously” at the tv this series
My guess is, The doctor won’t open the watch and won’t get answers to the timeless child thing because it doesn’t matter. pretty much removing the importance of the timeless child.
the Divison is just a revamped Celestial Intervention Agency
There are a lot of good moments in this weeks episode, as there have been in all the episodes to be honest but, whilst you have to admire his ambition, Chibnall has bitten off more than he can chew. He clearly wanted a complex and multi layered story that would be remembered for the ages, he just doesn't know how to write one.
100% the doctor says i know who i am and ignores the memories in the watch and we stick to broadly what we know
Why do I have a feeling that RTD is going to do one of two things, either 1) ignore the Flux destroying the Universe or 2) retcon the next universe into Pete's World.
This episode at least answered the question of what happened to Kate after that dumb little joke in "Resolution". Knew she wouldn't have just let UNIT go under like that.
Brilliant review again. Always enjoy you picking up on our tweets and mentioning them in the video.
Can I just ask who lit the candle in the temple/tomb with Yaz & Dan and where the F were they? And if u can just walk in and light a candle why not do that and if they were sneaking in, well they were bloody loud about it!! Just asking???
I agree with Lynn about low Yaz & the guys got out of the displaced village, but wanted to add to that question with what happened to the little girl? Did they leave her there by herself? Everyone else was gone and we know she grew up to be the older woman in the village. A couple lines of dialogue could be explained it
People probably moved into the village and took care of her.
in my opinion. The Division behaves like any government that shapes things for its own benefit. The fact that Tecteun mentions that the Doctor is hopeful and that people start asking questions and that is troublesome for them. That is the same thinking of several countries with authoritarian governments in which they do not have the freedom to think and speak without retaliation, an example of that is what happened to Vinder.
I think The Grand Serpent used a Vortex Manipulator to travel to earth and the same thing that happened to Captain Jack Happends to him was trapped in the past, being a snake he only changes his skin and his physique does not change at all, or simply he also has technology to travel through time.
by the way Rose is trapped in a parallel universe, it is not another dimension, remember that to get there you have to cross the space between universes, and also I think that in Season Two with David Tennant the seed of The Organization was possibly planted, since when they get to Pete universe he mentions the following:
Series 2x05 The Rise of the Cyberman...
Mickey said to the Doctor: But I've seen it in comics, people go hopping from one alternative world to another, It´s Easy!
The Doctor answer is: Not in the real world. Used to be Easy. When the Time Lords Kept their eye on everything, you could pop between realities, Home in time for tea.
Then They died and took at all with them.
The walls of reality closed.
The worlds were sealed.
Everything became that bit less Kind.
For me, this episode really did feel like Chris Chibnall finally returning to form, unfortunately.
He shocked the heck out of me by creating something I genuinely found intriguing and exciting this season. I really didn't see that coming after his first two seasons. The confusion had all but left me, then this episode had me thinking "Ah, there we go. He's back."*
I hope he had just one more relapse into competency when he wrote the finale. If it measures up to eps 2 or 4 that'll do nicely.
*Subjective opinion only. Other opinions of Chibnall's writing talent as seen in previous Doctor Who seasons as well as this one are available. Opinion should be taken with a grain of salt or a chew of celery. Do not mix this opinion with alcohol. In case of side effects see your local pharmacist or Doctor.
I hope next week they manage to stop the Flux and anything else that will cause further destruction, but they keep the damage that has already been done to the universe. I hope they will carry that over to the specials which will focus on rebuilding the universe, which will lead to the Doctor having to sacrifice herself in order to restore it.
Belle hijacked the missing ship that Karvanista was looking for, that is why he got on “her” ship
Chibbers as Dolores Umbridge is an amazing comparison.
My guess: the first episode of Season 14, the new D|octor wakes up and realizes the past 3 years were a dream implanted by The Master! The Master vanishes, laughing, and the new Doctor spends the whole episode sorting out what's real from what's an implanted memory.
This reduces Chibnuts to the nightmares caused by a bad curry, which he is. RETCON TO THE RESCUE! All we need to add is Captain Jack and we're gold.
Yeah, something tells me we won't be seeing Jack again anytime soon...
I feel like for the sake of it being tied together Vinder and Bels child will end up being the timeless child. I don't want it but I can feel it. (why else would we be following them)
I liked this episode as it added more content to the Doctor's History also I enjoyed seeing Unit, the mention of Brigadier but also Kate's moment and threatening him with a call to the Doctor without saying the Doctor/ the end to the episode was a bit anti-climatic but I did like where it stopped just before he touched the Doctor's face, sort of reminded me of the Classic Doctor moments they did. Looking forward to the finale episodes and the specials also Curious and excited to see who the next Doctor is.
"if she dies next week I'm coming for you" me and you both dude 😂😂😂
FYI I don't no if anyone has noticed but in the the newest preview to EP6 in Flux, in background behind Swarm where he is holding the Pocket Watch, over his right shoulder is a red looking circle with lines going out to the outer rim.
I don't no when or where I saw this but Jodie is wearing a new broach on her left collar on her jacket of a simular looking design, her broach is a red tree. I'm thinking as Swarm has just jumped on, they are on a DIVISION spaceship still and that it the Division crest/Emblem on the wall.
Going off the logo, to me is a picture of a tree and could mean family tree or the route of her family or...
The Tree symbol says its branching out, hense what we found out into multiverses.
This does not feel like a penultimate episode. So many threads, so little time. Not that I want CC to have more time. Maybe with +3 specials he can conclude some things and still leave a universe that can be fixed and retconned by RTD. A girl can dream...
He has only three specials left after this series finale on Sunday. So he has not much time left.
I don't think The Flux storyline will complete until the BBC centenary special next year. I'm actually thinking that with the news that the TARDIS set has been dismantled that we are actually going to see The Doctor die at the end of next year, like die die, no regeneration. The Flux happens, Universe 2 happens... and RTD gets to start with a clean slate.
A new Universe, a new 1st Doctor leaves a new Galifrey... and it all starts again.
With Bad Wolf potentially having Disney interest this clean slate gives the opportunity for a MCU style approach with a new Torchwood type spinoff etc etc etc
The narrative Rich mentioned of the past is the past, the future is whats now important, I think this is possibly what is looking like likely to happen.
On it's 60th Anniversary the Who story completely begins again. RTD is not coining in to fix, but to completely go with a fresh approach.
Our struggle through the flux is real.
I agree about undoing the TImeless Child. It was big and splashy but shallow and egotistical.
I can understand your concerns but for me I’ve warmed to the idea of the doctors revised origin story due to the way it seems to be being played. Instead of the Doctor being an unknowing God who was used and manipulated she was merely a being from a different race with presumably the same abilities that was kidnapped by the time lords and experimented on. I know that this wasn’t properly confirmed but just the scale this series seems to be playing with and the way the original child was referred to in that context seems to me like they’re aiming for a renewed sense of mystery about the Doctor’s origins rather than making her a big godlike figure just because other shows just so happen to do that.
It’s flawed but it is more interesting than what the timeless child episode established and comes with more story potential as well as a new origin that we can build up like we did back in the shows early days
The finale could absolutely bollocks this up, it is Chris Chibnall we’re talking about, but nevertheless I’m not as annoyed by the backstory as I was before Flux started
The issue I have with the "renewed mystery" approach is that it doesn't really work when the crux of said mystery is the Doctor herself not knowing, because this necessitates giving her the motivation *to* know, to find out about her past(s).
Originally, the Doctor was a figure of intrigue, but it was us, the audience, who were in the dark about who this rather offish old duffer was. The Doctor knew perfectly well who he was, he was just extremely secretive, which made him all the more compelling as a character because he knew something we didn't. He seemed grand, powerful, and utterly mysterious. However, with this new attempt to bring some of that back and "re-mystify" the Doctor, the key difference is that the Doctor herself is clueless and that, in a way, makes her less impressive. Less interesting. It makes the Doctor an equal in our own ignorance. For me it just doesn't work in the same way.
Fundamentally, the Doctor should be mysterious because they're an alien, from another world and another time; somebody that us humans can never truly comprehend despite the amount of time this strange individual spends among us. That's what makes the Doctor such a fascinating character, not because of their species, or any of their "hidden lives", or because they're a Chosen One archetype who came from another realm.
I also didn't (at first) like the Doctor being the Timeless Child, and have warmed to it, but I have always been confused why anyone has been referring to the Timeless Child as a god.
It's a child that can repair itself. The only "god-like" status that could be somewhat seen was the child being the reason the Gallifreyans got so advanced, but they clearly didn't see it as a god since they put it to work for the Division.
Also, didn't the Timeless children episode already say the wormhole led to another universe?
I wouldn't call it a revised origin. We never knew who William Hartnell's Doctor was running away and why.
@@jphaggerty9046 I do agree, which is what I mean when I say I prefer the direction they’re going in. If the Doctor gets her memories back but we don’t get to see what they are then they will be shrouded in mystery again. It’ll be like it was in the sixties where we won’t know how many people she has been, what she has even done etc.
Williamson makes me think Bel and Vinder (and presumably their child) will be important. Every other random character who has been in the plot has turned out to be in the show for a reason, so presumably they will matter too.
Also, the longer they're separated the more I worry that one, other or both will die before this is all over
I definitely think Tec (can't be bothered to type the whole name out) is either being dishonest or was mistaken, after all the only proof we have that the Doctor fell through the portal *is* Tec's claim
Im thinking that Bel IS the Doctor's mother and the Doctor gets born on Earth. Bel will probably die. I think this will be why the Doctor is so tied to Earth.
Yeah timeless Child is something I wish hadn't happened
I thought I might give the episode a score of 6.5 as well... Except out of 100!
As you say in the review, I just get the impression that Chibnall wants to be remembered as the person who reinvented Doctor Who, albeit at the expense of continuity, character and good story telling
On first watching I was very confused with it and towards the end seemingly understood. Upon second watching I thought it was a lot better however what disappointed me more was how it completely destroys 58 years of Doctor Who. Where were the division during the time war or did the division cause the time war? While it’s a really great concept there is a splinter group from Gallifrey it’s still ask more questions than answers and Chris isn’t capable of giving good answers.
I said that I do feel the stakes are very high for Jodie and the characters and I do hope that it gets resolved in a satisfying way but like you I want the timeless child stuff to be eradicated completely. I think flux has definitely been the best of the entire era and I hope that trend continues into her regeneration but I want the whole child nonsense to be eradicated. I think your score is pretty fair
Downplaying Dr Who's history. You nailed it with that line. Continuity is more than a few nods here and there to past stories, but an integration of the lore without constant revision. There is an art to continuity in Who, and this isn't it!
I've been waiting for what you had to say about the episode because I found it quite hard to make opinions about this episode
We see Claire next episode (she was in the trailer), hopefully that’ll give us answers to those questions?
For me, this jumping around the plot with different issues and no explanation, where it only is reveals bit by bit, is a so overdone and overused trope. I am so done with seeing people suddenly in places where you think "wtf, what are they doing here", just to jump back to where we know the situation, to jump back to the wtf, to then get to the end of the episode to actually start to get the faintest idea what is going on in the B-plot.
It is one thing to make this a bit more coherent if you don't jump between confusing B-plot and normal A-plot, but by just focusing the complete story on this confusing jumping around.
I think the timeless child could be retconned by the master being tektayun either having regenerated from being on gallifrey when the death particle went off or they are disguising themselves somehow but I can't figure out how they would survive getting Thanosed by the swarm and azure
Right. The death particle and the Master. I wonder, if Chibnall even remembers that... it hasn't been mentioned at all
My main take away from this shambles was 'I wish Jemma Redgrave was playing the Doctor'.
Imagine how the fan base will implode when Chibbs makes them the Doctors parents, he already messed the lore all up, might as well finish it off…lol
(God I hope he doesn’t).
Knock over all the pins? You know Chibnall is going to knock down 1 maybe 2 pins (badly), forget about the rest and put up a few more 🤦♂️
And I too HATE the timeless child arc. I’m intrigued that you want the missing doctor to be between 2 and 3 - how would that work?
Troughton to Pertwee is the only regeneration not shown explicitly in the series, there was a theory that Ruth/Fugitive Doctor may only fit between two and three if she was to be post-Hartnell, as she still used the Tardis that was stuck during the first season of the show, that is to say, during Hartnell's time.
I hope the timeless child thing doesn't exist in the end, although in the best case that the ruth doctor is placed somewhere in the last 13 incarnations then that just cancels out matt smiths finale :/
The Ruth doctor is placed in the gap between the 2nd and 3rd doctors, which is why she has her TARDIS as a policebox. The 2nd and 3rd doctor gap is the only place where she could be easily positioned, as this is the only one where we never saw the 2nd doctor regenerate into the 3rd doctor.
Agree with your five pins, but bonus points to CC if he can resolve some of the plot holes and innumerable loose ends (like how exactly did the quantum extraction get resolved back in Medderton? Oh, and, Claire anyone?). And extra bonus points if that poor vicar ever shows up :)
360p gang
hell yeah
I think chibnall has read the BBC 8th doctor books. It's sounding very similar to the whole story arc that concluded in the book sometime never.
I think it's bang on that the division story arc will get resolved in the New Year Special; they have too many plots going on that is unresolved and to do it in one episode and do justice is damn near impossible. I have a feeling that in the end of the New Year Special, the doctor will decide (willingly or unwillingly) to open the fob and thereby releasing all her memories. And by doing so, she will regenerate into someone new, leaving endless possibilities for the rest of the season and the next to come.
Not to spoil anything, but the cast of the New years special and the storyteaser don't seem like this episode will reveal anything. It seems to be a more light hearted episode like previous specials.
It's so bad, nothing makes sense and everything is rushed. How is Chibs this bad? It's like he's doing it on purpose & intends to irreparably damage the show. Just depressing to watch now. Don't understand how or why Chibs was ever given so much control, everyone at the BBC lost their minds?
The hat and the glasses is a really good look... Great video as usual... Apart from Kate Stewart, the ood and grand serpant this episode was a dumbster fire
Technically universe 3 the first was when matt Smith reset the universe after the tardis blow up
But did you notice that Nicholas Courtney was credited as Alastair Lethbridge-Stewart (from Inferno) and not Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart?
As I said on another review of this episode, while I don't see it happening, I am hoping that the chameleon arch opening at the end of the episode will undo all of the timeless child bullcrap.
I'm hoping the memories it holds retcon the timeless child stuff by giving the actual truth. And that the Doctor being the Timeless Child really was just a huge lie.
I'm hoping, but I already know this isn't gonna be happening.
Why would Tecteun say that the Doctor was the Timeless Child and then say that she can have her memories back, only for it to be revealed that it was a lie anyway? It doesn't make sense.
@@finnhobart9100 Manipulation? Idfk 😂
Like I said, improbable but it'll at least undo the stupid timeless child stuff
I want the geeking alot more. When the doctor asked the amount of engineering required to sustain the station
You're wrong, Chibnall will never explain how that torn picture of the Weeping Angels magically reassembled... for no good reason. No amount of bowling pins will put that right.
The Angels can manipulate time, so presumably they can revert a torn drawing back to its original state.
Kate was just there for a lazy infodump of things that happened off camera, like so many things this episode.
Props to you for making the John barrowman joke
Im not against the 'idea' of the timeless child but its been done in a way that just tramples all over everything before including old who, which chibnall is meant to be a fan of. Division just makes no narrative sense, where the fuck were they previously. Am I meant to believe they are the architects of previous events, they just let the daleks move planets around the universe and all the multiple events to destroy the universe? Its just impossible, they cant even be bothered to retroactively add anything to previous stories to show Divisions influence. It is changing things forever and has completely let the multiverse cat out the bag. Its just becaome a DBZ power increase fest and I just dont see a way back.
I am wondering how the hell RTD can fix the mess that old Chinballs has left.
Did Anyone notice that Tecteun was played by Granville’s love interest in Open All Hours? She was the milk lady.
I still think the serpent has something to do with Jon pertwees serpent tattoo on his arm and the 3rd doctor somehow
Look up what happened in 1904. Your eye should be drawn to Aleister Crowley claiming this is the year a disembodied voice dictated The Book of the Law to him. Look at the places Aleister Crowley traveled to including mountaineering in the Himalayas. And Crowley's book talks of an Aeon of Isis (matriarchy, Tecteun?), Aeon of Osiris (patriarchy, Rassilon?) and a coming Aeon of Horus (child, Timeless Child? Doctor?).
Word. This guy Crowleys.
its all over the place ?
I "liked" the dialogue delivered by Tecteun in that WOW, it was effective in making you loathe her in the space of just a few minutes. Added kudos to that as she is/was played by Barbara Flynn who just naturally beams cuddly warmth. But nope, full on Mengele vibes delivered! hey, maybe this is why it's called acting?
Was an ok episode in a pretty good series so far 👍🏻 Also, loving your reviews on this! Look forward to these almost as much as the episodes!
It kind of left me cold tbh, and it doesn't feel like a cliffhanger leading into the finale of a six part story. Just... another part of the unfocussed bland spectacle. And I realise bland spectacle is an oxymoron, but that's what I feel.
This is a great review, a lot better than another review on a different you tube channel, keep up the great work. I though it was a really good episode
Agree, got to drop the Timeless Child angle. It just does not work.
Am I the only one slightly disappointed that there wasn't a sign saying "This Bitch" over Tecteun's face at the beginning?
Agreed that this wasn't a top episode. But 7.
Glad to see the back of Tectuan.
The tunnels under Liverpool, are going to lead to all sorts of stuff.
The hermit... The next regen of the Doctor?
Kate leading the resistance... Yes
The Grand Serpent having been around on earth all this time, makes Vinder much older than he seems... Time travel? Time Lord?
So you’re saying there’s headcrabs and a crazy Russian priest through door number 9?
If they want to continue the Timeless Child story, WHILE keeping our story, is make it where she trapped the Timeless Child DNA in the watch and when the Doctors DNA was rewritten, The woman with the T name (I wasn’t about to type that) gave the Doctor the same amount of regenerations as all other Time Lords. It would explain how Hartnell is our first Doctor, and that Smiths Doctor was granted more regenerations.
As long as it pays off in episode 6 and ends with Jodie’s run then any following series can move forward with this plot line being just a shadow in the background. This is Jodie’s best run in the her gig so far imo, hopefully the doctor can just be the doctor going forward.
watching this season is strange. throughout this season theres been "well that was ok but where does it lead" and given how the other seasons went it its like im waiting to see how bad the end is (everything coming together anything else destroyed etc) before i can enjoy any episodes