Types of Atheists (Psychology of Atheism Part 1)
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024
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Psychology of Atheism Series:
Part 1: • Types of Atheists (Psy...
Part 2: • Is There An Atheist Pe...
Part 3: • Are Atheists Immoral, ...
Full PhD thesis:
wrap.warwick.ac...
(Book version has sold out)
Peer-Reviewed Journal Article:
Baker, Matthew J. (2015) Psychological type differences between churchgoers and church-leavers, Mental Health, Religion & Culture, 18:7, 622-634
www.tandfonlin...
International Personality Item Pool:
ipip.ori.org/
CREDITS:
Charts & Narration by Matt Baker
Animation by Syawish Rehman
Audio editing by Ali Shahwaiz
Theme music: "Lord of the Land" by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under Creative Commons Attribution license 4.0. Available from incompetech.com
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15 hrs ago, this confirms super natural force is real.
id like to add that most believers are true negative believers and have no clue if what they believe actaully makes sense. this is because most religions use blind faith and non of them actaully make sense if you delve into them unlike something like math where you delve into it and it all makes sense it is all real religions though contradict themselves time and time again, they also change and sure math changes but the religions fundamently change and the religion is always preaching about how it currently is all knowing while math doesnt state its complete that it is all knowing maybe eventually but theres still things to discover about math or physics or other sciences and religion has only new made up stuff to add nothing real nothing tested just a bunch of small changes that people think is right when the original could be taken in many different ways and we are only left with a bunch of different interpertations no religions are the original of even themselves they have all changed way past what they started as and to believe in them would be insane. thank you. if you actaully study something like the bible or you study a religion you will end up lieing to yourself or end up being an athiest just saying but true athiests the ones that are negative and have thought about religion for real are in a lot of ways smarter then everyone in religion who still lies to themselves that god is real :|
You wrote a PhD thesis based on a "personality theory" that is widely regarded by professional psychologists as 1920s quackery?
@@WeMayBeFarApart I will address that concern in part 2.
I don't believe in atheists.
I don't think they exist.
I am neither realist nor idealist, I am a real enoughist.
I'm sure you have already considered this, but a potential problem I notice is the issue of how representative your survey is. If your survey went viral on atheism discussion forums, responses will overrepresent the kind of atheist who is really interested in the atheism/theism debate, whereas the vast majority of atheists (even if they have considered the issue in the past), go about their day without giving the subject a second thought.
Yes, and most atheists are not humanists (atleast I don't think so), many atheists still believe in things like life after death, spiritual energies, the power of rocks, astology... AS you said the sample he got is not representative
I'm almost certain this is something he and his supervisors would have been aware of and would have discussed in the chapter about methodology.
Plus, he stated that he was interested in Explicit Atheists - which are those that have considered their position. This is likely true of most of those participating in Atheist discussion/debate forums so that would be capturing the exact people being sought. It's also worthwhile stopping for a moment and remembering that these conclusions are about Explicit Atheists and would not necessarily hold true of Implicit Atheists.
@@Catfive1975 Most explicit atheists won't talk about their lack of faith in public. Those who will are militant explicit atheists, often humanists and skeptics.
What Matt Baker conducted was known as a convenience survey, as opposed to a probability survey typically used in opinion surveys.
Note that in the brief display of his survey results (toward the end of the video) he did not report any margin of errors or plus/minus numbers, which must always be reported for probability surveys but cannot be reported in convenience surveys.
Note: I did notice that he had some "p" numbers at the bottom (e.g., p < .05, p < .01, etc.) but I'm not quite sure what those numbers were were in relation to but they definitely weren't margin of errors.
What this means is that, while of some interest and value, the results and findings of his survey cannot be applied to the atheist community at large.
IOW, one can only say that such-and-such percentage of the survey respondents held such-and-such belief, not that any certain percentage of all atheists (or theists) in the general population hold that belief.
However, that being said, a most interesting and informative presentation.
I cannot overstate how refreshing this is. I applaud you for taking the time to actually understand atheists, without any negativity. The points you make here seem so basic to me, but they are things I've had to repeat and explain countless times when having discussions with, or more often defending myself from, theists. I hope that another worldview of mine is shared among atheists, and comes out in the second or third section: I do not hate your deity or any other. I am not angry. I have no desire to prevent anyone from believing as they choose, or practicing their religions. My objections only arise when the theist claims moral superiority, or when they attempt to impose their beliefs or practices on me.
As for the point you raise around minute 17, I will state: Any scripture or belief based worldview that is good, must also be good in absence of the supernatural. "Thou shalt not kill" is no more or less moral than "The LORD sayeth Thou shalt not kill." I cannot accept "The Bible says so" as the sole justification for law, policy, or practice that I will be required to follow, but the fact that the proposed item exists in scripture does not immediately negate its potential worth.
Oh, and thank you for not marching out the tired, old, and immensely insulting idea that an atheist cannot be moral. I worry for those who insist that morality is impossible without faith.
This video also made me think about where I stand as well. I grew up Christian, but I've become more distant simply because of things I don't agree with, particularly since I've come to identify as queer. People tend to make this decision out of a man's free will a moral question.
I still remember when my mom was listening to this homily, and the priest basically said "to not agree or believe is just an excuse to sin."
I remember being immensely shocked when I learnt that some people from a Western country, like the US, could think that not believing in a god was linked to not being moral. As a French agnostic atheist who grew up without any religious or anti-religious pressure, but with strong moral values, it was a hard awakening.
@@GeneralYen as an Indian i agree
Well said, James!!
What's more insulting is the reductive approach to the role religion (and in particular organized) has had in creating a framework for societal order, international cooperation, law, philanthropy and including the disenfranchised. Warts and all, and there are LOTS, Organized Religion has done more good than bad especially because of the institutions it has put in place. I'm a thorough atheist but I don't have the philosophically vapid takes of a rebellious high schooler smoking some schwagg from a soda can.
Speaking as an atheist, this is one of the most correct descriptions of what atheism is and what it isn't that I've seen. Thank you for that.
Haha burn in hell
Amazing what we can achieve when we're not at each other's throat, which is unfortunately often the case, for both theists and atheists. I think a theology discution between Matt and someone like genetically modified skeptic would be amazing. we'd all get a lot of knowledge we didn't have before.
Being Godforsaken is not good
@@Reichsritter how is it godforsaken when you don't believe in it? are you Jupiterforsaken? what about Odinforsaken?
@@josephguillerey4391 no
Being able to say “the book version of my phd thesis is sold out” is incredible
unless there was only one copy
@@scambammer6102 Now that’s just petty.
Even my mother wouldn’t read let alone buy my thesis.
@@alechorn1109 Just curious, what was your topic?
Watch Dr Haitham Talaat videos,for your own good.
This analysis aligns pretty closely with my own experiences being an atheist during my adult life and my interactions with other atheists online and in real life. Really refreshing and clarifying, especially from someone who (as I understand it) identifies as a theist! Yet another great video
Same. I've sort of shifted around most of these categories one time or another going from a more hard atheism when I gave up religionor explicit to soft one now years later. Seen all sorts pf people everywhere on the chart here as well.
Atheism is shit. There's nothing good about it. To turn from evil Islam to atheism is just going from Satan's right hand to his left.
@@yenyehski_698 Strange. I've gone harder. It really doesn't make sense. I'm very precise. If a religious person wants to make their case, they better replicate a miracle or two for my personal delight. I don't ask their Yahweh to do something that it hasn't been credited with before. None of this "look at the trees" bs because Muslims have told me this, Hindus have told me this and of course, Christians have told me this. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.
With the Trump era, it's shifted to extreme concern. Now, I'm of the position that religion - all religions - should be classified as an "adult only activity" and that children must be protected from these nonsense beliefs. Look, if their religion is true, as they claim it is, than an adult would easily believe. It wouldn't take much time at all to believe something such as existence. Why indoctrinate on an immature brain with few defenses against lies and fewer life experiences so they can't recognize the lie? I mean.. talking snakes? What are we? In Harry Potter land?
The reason for this is... magical thinking. These believers have been taught a very bad technique to assess reality. It's based on belief rather than some form of evidence + reasoning. It's like improper lifting techniques where you don't "bend from the knees" but rather "bend from your poor little spine". You're going to get hurt eventually. You can't just perform magic spells and claim that our god will fix things like climate change or protect oneself from a global airborne respiratory disease that turns lungs into well...something not breathable.
@@jenniferhunter4074 Yeah I get what you mean. I've read a lot of the bible, bit of the quran, and attended six year of scripture and I still go to Christian groups if they present themselves (like I said I'm not religious, I just go when friends want to go and I find it mildly interesting). On top of this my background is full of religious fanatics so I'm pretty well accustomed to religion. Must say I agree about how I don't believe in the creation and history stuff in religion, it just doesn't make sense (to me) in a contemporary context.
However saying this I find on a personal level the spiritual stuff speaks to me about the human condition. I also like the charity and acceptance in religion, though I believe many 'religious people' ignore this as they don't read the their own scripture. Instead they focus on one line of the Leviticus about two men sleeping with eachother instead of the ten commandments about loving thy neighbour. They preach hate out of a book of love, mind you not all scripture is so friendly.
In the end whatever religious stance people take I'll leave them to it so long as they don't hurt others or force it. As it says in the quran to say to nonbelievers I do not believe what you believe, and you do not believe what I believe. I know my beliefs sound weird to others but personally I take no offense to it. I respect anyone's beliefs so long as they are good about it.
@@yenyehski_698 For me, I'm far more materialist. I distrust the wanting because it can be so easy to manipulate someone by their desires. What I want does not mean that it is real or that it is good. I value the real.
I'm not sure I accept the "spiritual connection" via religion. It's something that is often said much like they claim that the US is the greatest country in the world. I have doubts about such grandiose claims.
I think what is implied is that you can have a " human connection" with another. Well, I've formed that "human connection" in a crowded bus full of strangers and it's a situation where, if you don't laugh, you're going to cry. We'll naturally form these connections if we participate and we're not weird.
I find real historical figures to be more inspiring than the fictional ones. Even in the muck of their lives, I see something worthy of emulation. Sure. They are products of their time and they weren't that nice in every way. But then, are any of us that saint-like? There's a realness to their struggle. They're human or they were human. I'm human. I may not be able to fly but I can strive to emulate the best of humanity. Even if I fail, at least I tried.
For religion, it's difficult to separate the good from the bad. I have seen nice people transform into monsters and their religion was still the same religion. They just chose to emphasize the darkest parts of their religion. And that is the most dangerous aspect of religion.
With religion, there is no limiting factor to how far you will go. There will always be an interpretation for what you want. Love can be twisted into acts of hatred. You'll say "It's for their own good" ... but is it? At it's worst, religion fosters a sense of narcissism. At it's mildest, it's still present like this little evil cancerous cell. It just needs the right environment and then, it will consume the believer.
So for me, religion should be treated like radioactive material. Even if it feels nice, there are loads of things that feel nice but are ultimately very bad for us. It's an inherently flawed system. It's radioactive.
I think religion should be treated as an " adult activity" . It's no different from people who cosplay or act in plays or clean up highways or whatever else they do. Adults have more mature brains and we have life experiences that can help us mitigate the worst attributes of religion. For children, it's toxic. It's like giving your child cocaine and expecting there to be no ramifications. That child is young. Very few life experiences. Very immature brain. Not enough practice thinking. They're extremely vulnerable to being damaged by religious culture. (Think of the boys and girls who lived with purity culture. Some of them can't enjoy sex because their religion traumatized them to pathologize sex. So now, they're married and it's a problem. They need therapy to fix what religion broke.)
If people could be sensible around religion, I'd have less of a problem. People who argue about whether Hulk is stronger or Captain Marvel is stronger.. they understand that it's just a game. Religious people don't understand that their faith is a game. This is why they'll chop people's heads off or burn them alive. There are no brakes.
(Side note - I really despise this idea that you can't be " spiritual" without religion. I have been moved to tears by listening to a pianist play their heart out. I have been struck with awe at seeing a sunset. I have felt the world move when I learned something new that opened my eyes to yet another part of reality. What on earth does religion give me that can mimic those authentic moments where I just existed and felt being in that moment? I'm spiritual. I just don't need ghosts or gods or some religious ceremony to get that high.)
I come from a Hindu Brahmin family. For the uninitiated, Brahmins are the group of people within Hindus, who perform worships and religious rituals. They are the authority on religious guidance.
I became a priest (not a professional one, but know my hymns and prayers and stuffs) at an early age of 13 years and did my fair share of rituals for a good 10-12 years.
During this period I also happen to study science and graduate as a Mechanical Engineer.
When I started my career in Data Science 10-12 years back from now, I had to get on internet to figure out things required for my work.
The internet access was a game changer.
I started getting drawn into studying other cultures, histories, religion, art, science, technology, etc. Since this topic is on Atheism, I will focus my comment only on the "religion" aspect of my internet usage.
I started to study other religions, their philosophy, their goals, their creation story, their take on Eschatology, the evolution of faith system, animism etc etc. Then I figured, all the Abrahamic religions doesn't make any sense. Why would someone get away after committing a sin just because they surrendered to God, doesn't he need to pay for the sins? Anyway, when I started believing that Abrahamic religions doesn't work, I looked into other Non-Abrahamic religions, and gradually into my own religion Hinduism. I started comparing, why would one religion make no sense and other would? They all come from the same idea of having a supernatural entity in the first place. Then I concluded, may be all of them got it wrong, there 'is' a supernatural entity that governs the universe but we are not even capable to imagine the magnitude of that power. We all imagined our own versions of divinity and created a religion out of those, so there are a variety of religions but the theme remains same, almost.
So, at this point, I started calling myself non-religious but "spiritual".
It stayed for some couple of years.
The major shift happened when I started watching discussions and debates by Richard Dawkins, Bill Nye, Sam Harris and likes. It started dawning on me that all the evidences that we have so far, doesn't add up to support the theory of existence of any "Supernatural Entity" anymore. It became more clear to me. The world we live in, the universe and everything, just happen to be there, 'not for us' but just there, it's a cosmic phenomenon, that's all, there's no need to make anything out of it. That is the point, when I gave up my idea of existence of any supernatural entity or God and experience the world as it comes by.
Now, I am pretty convinced that there's no one out there, watching over us, (like a God, aliens may exist though) judging us on our lame acts and we are not going anywhere after we are done here, we came from star dust and that is where we shall return. I don't care if someone believes in some form of faith or not, I don't judge them, I don't preach my lack of faith to them, I don't follow anything that they say I should, just because it's a practice, I do things when I feel like, even if it is to observe a certain religious festival or gathering. I now focus more on just the well being part, to live life to my best abilities, to help others to my best abilities and to die with minimum resentment.
Feels so peaceful!
😇
🙏
This reminds me so much of my own journey but I started on the Abrahamic side (roman catholic) and I had a "spiritual dream" , after which i had to look in some eastern religions just to "proof" to myself that thinks like reincarnations are not real, because they where not a part of my religion. In the end I just noticed the lack of proof I had for so much stuff I firmly believed in.
@@dunklerKurfurstDesDeepstat comparative analysis and retrospection, that's the key! 😊
Thank you for sharing.
👎🏻😒
@@direct.skc.2 UNESCO recognizes the tradition of Vedic chanting as an *_Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity._* It's a tradition that has survived for over 3,500 years. But today, sadly - to quote from UNESCO - _"only thirteen of the over one thousand Vedic recitation branches have survived. Moreover, four noted schools - in Maharashtra (central India), Kerala and Karnataka (southern India) and Orissa (eastern India) - are considered under imminent threat."_
To be clear, I'm not criticizing your personal spiritual journey. Your path is your choice, and yours alone; I have no say in it. I was just pointing out the tragedy that whenever we invent something new-like computers and the Internet-we inevitably end up killing off earlier traditions-like memorizing and handwriting. And then we lament the dying traditions. But, I suppose, that's progress.
@@nHans Yes, change is the only constant!
The whole Universe changes every moment and doesn't remain the same even for 2 consecutive seconds!
The way I remember it, the worldview preceded the atheism and led me to atheism. I can still remember driving home one night after listening to others discussing their beliefs in a higher power, and I thought to myself "Maybe there is no God" and I accepted in my heart, for lack of a better phase, that I had no reason to believe any of that. It's been over 20 years and I haven't had to reconsider it, it was quite a relief actually.
It just makes me so happy to see a religious person such as yourself actually attempt to understand us, nowadays it feels like no one wants to.
We will happily discuss the topic with those of you who choose to be atheist without bashing religion. While no longer belonging to any particular faith, I still believe in God, but at the same time I can respect your beliefs (or disbelief as the case may be)
@@farpointgamingdirectWhile I have no particular desire to get into a heated debate with a theist over religion, I do object to the idea that any criticism of religion, or religious ideology is taboo. Someone else may criticize my political ideology, even my rejection of religion, but, oooh…. if I utter the slightest criticism of religion, *that* is beyond the pale. *Why?* Humanity progresses through an honest exchange of ideas and viewpoints, and by subjecting long-held beliefs -political, scientific, sociological, philosophical- *to scrutiny.* If those ideas fail to hold up to scrutiny, then perhaps they *need* to be reconsidered. And a thoughtful, compassionate person can present such an argument without condescension or ridicule of those holding the belief that they’re challenging. I can respect *you* and still think that your beliefs are unfounded, illogical, even silly.
And FYI: many people don’t *choose* to be atheists, they simply *are.* I didn’t *choose* to not believe in forest elves, either, I simply never saw any reason *to* believe in them. If at some point in the future I see compelling evidence of the existence of god(s), or forest elves, then I’ll change my mind. If I really *tried* to believe [in fact, I *have* tried], I would still be unable to. Belief without evidence is something I simply can’t understand.
@@altitudeiseverything3163 The debate has been messed up by militants on both sides of the divide. As a non stipendiary Priest, open to debate, I can assure you that I find Christian bigots every bit as irritating as Atheist ones.
I'm from (NW) Europe, and the OPs comment feels so alien to me. Here atheism is more or less the norm. (Well, not in a normative way necessarily, but it is the most common position, I mean).
@@farpointgamingdirect I'm not interested in demeaning or bashing anyone's religious beliefs. But "religion" is not so much a self-contained social concept as it is an interconnected machinery of social dependencies, e.g. religious doctrine, religious organizations, laypeople, religious culture, etc.
For this reason, I the idea of "bashing religion" is a bit of linguistic confusion. People who criticize religion are in most cases criticizing one of those things, so a precondition for a productive conversation would be that the interlocutor is also aware of this. Unfortunately, many are not.
What an awesome and sober disambiguation. This is a difficult topic which rarely receives this level of unbiased analysis. Great job. This is a video I will save and show many times in the future just to make sure people understand the underlying concept when using a particular term. Thanks
Me, doing a PhD, currently writing the ethics application for my first survey study: "We are aiming for 100 - 300 respondents"
Matt, PhD chad: "I received 23,697 responses"
😂
My internal crying aside, I always love hearing other PhD students and recipients talk passionately about their own research, this was a fantastic video Matt! Such an interesting research question to base your thesis on. I look forward to the next videos in this series!
He is definitely very lucky, although I am afraid his sample is not random (which does not invalidate his conclusions per se). For many surveys you would not want the survey shared in an uncontrolled fashion, and in such a case you really can't get a lot of responses.
The method I used is called snowball sampling and is often used in cases like this where it is quite difficult to find your target group tied up nice and neat in a bow.
Matt: (strolls the department hallways to the tune of "Why Not" by Ghostface Playa.)
Right?! I got like 100 but that was actually a pretty good size considering I was surveying a very specific group in one region. I think a lot of this depends of how big the group is and the parameters of the study so it's probably best not to compare with others (or so I tell myself XD)
Link yours, maybe we can help
This is a great study. My earlier life as an agnostic has definitely colored my desire for a separation of church and state. If I choose to have a religious belief it does not give me a right to enforce that belief on someone who does not share it. In fact, if it is my ultimate goal to inspire and convert, being a tyrant and shaming people into making empty statements or hiding their private lives from view is not going to win converts unless they too want to manipulate.
As a Dualist Atheist, it's really nice to see someone who acknowledges (1) that Atheism is not a Worldview, BUT most Atheists share a worldview and (2) that this worldview can and should be critiqued.
As an atheist, I'm very interested in this series! Many "theories of Atheism" are either by people trying to "disprove" Atheism, or Atheists themselves who are just self-important. I trust you to be able to explore this subject with respect and empiricism!
I love the term ‘disprove atheism’ which I’ve heard a lot, if you think about it, it makes no sense. How can you disprove that someone doesn’t believe in a god(s)
@@philipeflop9943 Well you could say that's just a modern version of the word "apologism".
Few people in history were literally atheists, so what apologists were trying to do was justify their own beliefs *about* God - this could be the Christians arguing with Muslims, Muslims with Buddhists, Jews with whoever etc.
The thing about apologism was that everyone in the argument tended to assume that god(s) really *did* exist - they were arguing over *how* god existed.
Only recently that actual Atheism has become an actual identity that people actually hold, has apologism shifted from justifying one's own beliefs, to trying to "disprove" others' non-belief.
None-the-less, such "atheism disprovers" still use the same arguments as apologists. The problem is that the frame of the argument has changed - now all their arguments about "how" god exists are useless in the face of "whether" god exists. And they're often very angry about it.
@@philipeflop9943 mostly bad faith arguments about how atheists are too rebellious, bitter, or ashamed to admit they believe in a god
@@mullac1992 a good point, in my experience theists tend to get angry because you can’t argue with logic and reason, so it’s borne out of frustration. Personally I have no qualms with anybody believing in whatever they like as long as it doesn’t cause harm to anyone else ✌️
@@philipeflop9943 Oh yeah I'm not saying believing in God is bad at all - it's a very good way to give comfort, meaning, and direction to life. However, for those who are so invested in their beliefs that they feel the need to shut others down, I'm just explaining where their arguments come from.
The fact that you acknowledge that atheism, in and of itself, is not a worldview has earned this video a like.
I have had to explain that to several people before and it is always painful.
there are a lot of people who are so used to being able to define people in groups or that people belong themselfs in groups that they can't even fathom the idea of not belonging to one.
For example here in brazil, where futball is basicly a second religion, since I was a kind and even recetly people have asked me "what is your team?" or "which team up will you cheer up to?". I allways said none, and usually that got followed up by those people thinking that I must be a partypooper or that I will cheer "against futball". No, I just like online games more
@@dinamosflams I have never liked foot ball, I prefer individual sports, in my youth I was a good cross country runner and I also raced motorcycles. I get slightly annoyed when people, usually women, assume I will go crazy over football, I don`t.
@@dinamosflams I agree as an argentinian. Every once in a while I get asked that same question, or "Are you of River or Boca?" (the biggest teams here), to which I avoid replying. Generally I'm only interested in football during World Cups.
How is it not? Believing that God doesn't exist is still a belief about God, and is therefore a religion.
@@Williamatics
You obviously didn't watch the video super closely since he detailed why atheism isn't a worldview.
But it also isn't a religion because we don't worship a god or gods. So it's kind of hard to be a religion when you don't have something that, by definition, a religion has.
MORALITY is doing what is right regardless of what you are told.
OBEDIENCE is doing what you are told regardless of what is right!
Obedience to God is doing what is right by doing what you are told
I dont think either of those are verbs mate
@@thehungarywaffleinc.7775 Only if he exists...
@@reecelongden3500 I Believe The Holy Trinity does exist
@@thehungarywaffleinc.7775 😠 Really? What evidence do you have for such belief? Evidence that other people can observe through their senses. Not what you were told by some authority figure. Not what you read in a text. Real, tangible evidence.
I was staying in a hotel in Istanbul (love that city). I’m an elderly Caucasian male. At breakfast I met these 2 little boys and their sister, they were nice kids, polite and well mannered. I later met their Mother who explained her Husband had passed and They lived in the US, but the Mother was originally Syrian and was in Istanbul trying to get into contact with her family in the middle of the war in Syria. After meeting at breakfast for some days, bumping into each other at the pool and meeting at the roof top restaurant, the Mother and I drifted into talking about religion after I visited the Blue Mosque, she was a Moslem, she assumed I was a Christian, I told her I wasn’t, she then inquired what my religion was, I told her I had no religion and no belief in any Supreme Being or God. The Mother was nonplussed, she couldn’t comprehend a person without religion. I remained in the hotel for another 10 days, I was visiting museums and sites as well as shopping, the Mother was trying to contact family. Each day the Mother would approach me to discuss the question of the existence of God, she literally could not comprehend a world without a God. The good thing is I taught the children to swim and gained a bit of fitness, while the Mother seemed almost intrigued (she didn’t swim and didn’t even paddle her feet) in the ongoing discussion and kept coming up with “proofs” of the existence of God and “demanded” I refute (which I did). We exchanged contact details, but as she never contacted me I never contacted her after I left. I sometimes wonder how those children are going.
Fabulous story!
Well she was probably shy because it isn't usual for a Muslim woman to talk to strange men, especially atheists. So why don't you stop being wimpy and ASK HER how the kids are.
"Hey, I wonder if you remember me. I'm the atheist guy from Istanbul. I taught your kids how to swim. We had a lot of enjoyable arguments about God together. I was just thinking about that time and honestly, I'm sorry we never spoke again. I was wondering how are you guys? Is everything going okay? How are the kids? I hope they didn't forget their swimming skills 😀😁"
Another Christian here. Thank you so much for this Matt! I hope a lot of Theist folks will take the time to watch this series as well! Just because one may not hold or understand a belief set, I think it's so important to learn about it and have healthy dialog, instead of being defensive, angry, judgemental. etc etc.
This video is so helpful already~ 🤗
Matt practices Judaism but was raised in a cult of Christianity.
Actually I fall into the negative atheist category and I similarly don't belive that only the phisical world exists: I'm just not convinced that anything else exists apart from that, the same way I'm not convinced that any god exists. The burden of proof is still yours, belivers. Sorry ;)
@@gaborraski354 Unfortunately that's where alot of folks have it backwards. Christians don't have to prove anything to anyone.
Christians are only required to give you information to help direct you. Once you are provided the Gospel of Christ as evidenced and foretold (historic verification) it is on you. A Christian cannot force you to believe what they say, God cannot force you to believe either. It becomes a decision to be judged in the afterlife.
Science is proving more and more alignment with Biblical History. Remember the Bible as it is today was not written as a complete book, it is a library of Historic Documents written in standard history/letter/law documents of the time. But I digress.
As I heard it years ago, here is a way to think of it as far as proving to anyone.....
If a Christian is right, what to you have to loose. If the Christian is wrong what do they have to loose.
@@gaborraski354 You're wrong about the burden being on me though. The reason? I don't care what you believe in nor do I have a mission to make you believe in anything, as I see it You will either burn in hell for your sins or you won't. Where you end up is up to yourself.
@@VindensSaga Does your faith not require you to do what you can to help others become enlightened and gain salvation?
Great job on this video, and congratulations on finishing your PhD thesis! I hope this helps bridge the gap between those who believe and those who don't. We're all on the same team people!
As an atheist, this is great to see. One of the biggest issues I run up against as an atheist is theists arguing that atheist's have no moral code (as they derive their own from their religion or religious texts). Secular humanist is where I derive my moral code from. Thank you for introducing the concept of worldview here, hopefully it will reach some people who struggle with understanding us "heathens".
I'm an agnostic pantheist and I run up against the same issue with "scriptural" theists when it comes to morality.
Mine also comes from humanist secularism.
I don't understand the claim of theists that they get their moral code from the bible (or any other holy text).
What part or parts of scripture, and why those? What is the moral lesson you take from it, and why is that not the same as some other theist's, of even from the same flavour of theism? Doesn't that mean you (or the (religious) community you're part of) do in fact have your own source of morals, and you just pick those parts parts of scripture that seems to affirm that?
@@eefaaf if you've ever been to a church service you'll see that they literally do this. They'll cherry pick down from line to line and then even have the audacity to tell you at the beginning exactly which lines they're specifically cherry picking
if I am an atheist then I will live only for my pleasure, even though it is far from moral and endangers people and the environment around me,I don't care, the important thing is that my life is peaceful, because this is my life and I have the right to my pleasure, maybe that's the picture if I'm an atheist,,then you can imagine if people have such understanding,,and if you think of a world without religion from god,,that is a very dark thing,,religion in my opinion is the love of god for humans so that they live in peace,, but many people stay away from their religion, and if I do that, I will definitely be a fool and insolent
"He sends down the angels with revelations with His command to whom He wills among His servants, (by saying) namely, "Warn (My servants), that there is no god but Me, so you should fear Me."" (Surat an-Nahl 16: Verse 2) "He created the heavens and the earth with truth. Most exalted is Allah from what they associate." (Surat an-Nahl 16: Verse 3) "He has created man from semen, he turned out to be a real dissident." (Surat an-Nahl 16: Verse 4) "And He has created livestock for you, in them there is (hair) that warms and various benefits, and some of it you eat." (Surat an-Nahl 16: Verse 5)
Ok I'm an atheist and you are the first theist to explain our position with any accuracy.
You are not an atheist if you do not believe in god.
@@Eimrine what?
@@imfirinmilazar if you accept the fact that a "god" word means something defined then you aren't atheist.
@@Eimrine what is that supposed to mean?
@@Eimrine an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in a god. That's it that's the whole definition. But i understand what you are trying to say... I think.
As a Christian, I find this data and terminology very interesting. Thanks for shedding some light on the subject
Yes indeed a very interesting species.
Completely agree great video and very informative, though I do find issue with him calling all young children and babies atheist
@@swedish-monarchist2457 maybe you skipped the part where he defines what it is
@@swedish-monarchist2457 We'll, they can't have belief in a higher power if they haven't been taught the concept yet.
@@swedish-monarchist2457 i feel like it make sense thou as a child being a thiest doesnt make sense a believe should be volenteerly and a considered thing. which is the same as other implicit type which either didnt considered it or dont care that much.
I never imagined, as an atheist (and humanist, I suppose), that I'd get a series like this on the channel. Thanks so much for it. I can't wait for the next one.
I don't understand what you mean. Why did you never imagine a series like this? What aspect of it do you find remarkable?
@@febotroilo7225 as an atheist-humanist in a family of theists, I’m not used to someone with a belief in God or gods treating my worldview with respect and understanding.
Don't just claim humanism as an atheist, read the books, study the world view and be ready to defend your beliefs from criticism. Do you believe morality is relative? absolute? Do you think it matters? etc.
this is the most neutral video about atheism that i've seen so far. it's really nice to see a video that takes a look at atheism without any bias and also coming from someone who's a theist
I’m glad that you are putting your dissertation in good use by breaking it down for a broader audience! I have an unrelated degree, but always knew I wanted to use what I learned to share it with folks who may not have a similar educational background.
Matt you knocked this one out of the park. This is the most clear and useful discussion of the topic that I have seen. Looking forward to part two.
I am an atheist, and have been basically most of my life. I went to a methodist church for years as a kid, as well as Sunday school, but religion never sat right with me.
An interesting moment I'll never forget was when I implied to a friend that I thought there was nothing after death. The response I got was of shock and disbelief, something I didn't expect at all. I was not aware they were religious, so it wasn't like I was smugly pressing the matter or anything, it just happened to come up in conversation.
I generally greatly dislike confrontation, and I hate debates, so I don't go around announcing my atheism. In fact, my aunt and uncle are born again Christians who are rather adamant about their beliefs, and I get quite uncomfortable when the topic comes up. I reckon I'm more on the side of "I've thought a lot about the topic, and have concluded that there's no god"
Too bad
@@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999 Well, ok then
@@wanderingrandomer 🤓
I really relate to that.
My whole extended family is Old Apostolic Lutheran.
Growing up I was never able to play sports or watch TV since it is a "sin".
I totally agree and understand with you how prideful, religious family members can be.
I can relate too.
I'm also an Atheist of the "I've thought a lot about the topic, and have concluded that there is no god" type, though I do take it one step further in that I'm also the "I've studied every religion I can find, and no god I've learned about is worthy of worship even were they to be real" type.
My aunt, with whom I get along very well, is an Anglican minister.
There have been some very interesting discussions over dinner, but there have also been some rather heated arguments after a few drinks.
A shame I missed out on this survey. I just assumed I was a "strong atheist" in my 20s because there was nothing that could sway me -- I just lack the personality qualities for faith. Turns out I'm a "negative atheist", and TBH that part of me has been getting farther and farther from the front of my mind every year. I'm only posting about it here because this place seems appropriate, but I'm leaning more toward "don't care" because it's just not something I've actively thought about since maybe 2001.
To make things weirder, I do enjoy channels like yours and Religion For Breakfast, even though I don't partake. It's kind of how I like learning about the lore of Star Wars even though I still haven't seen the 9th movie or any of the recent streaming series.
[edit: copyedit since people are actually reading this lol]
I don't think that's weird at all. I'm a "positive atheist" and I find religion fascinating, esp. non Christian. Being 'murican, I have plenty of contact/experience with Christianity, so there's less to discover, and, American Christians are often VERY difficult to talk to about religion.
Yes -- someone else who sees religious myths as interesting fiction that has had a strong effect on society! I've often thought that for example, Star Trek is similar to religion in that people watch and rewatch episodes cyclically (like a Daf Yomi sort of thing), dress in funny clothes, form supportive communities, and take life lessons from their canon ... but the whole time, they acknowledge it as fictional and embedded in a social context. But in the end, it scratches much the same itch as religion.
Doesn't seem weird. An interest in religion, beyond what is spoon fed in Sunday School, birthed many an atheist. We don't become less interested in religion, we simply move religion into the mythology category. We can find equal fascination in the Greek, Norse, Mesopotamian, or Hindu tales. In fact, when we're not obsessed with veracity, we can dismiss a few inconsistencies and more easily enjoy the stories.
The new Andor show has been really good. 👍
not wasting time watching Rise of Skywalker just makes you a smarter Star Wars fan, not a lesser one lol
As an Atheist, thank you... one of that frustrates me is as a "Negative Atheist" having to defend my position against people that assume I am a "Positive Atheist" and when I say I'm not think that they have won some kind of victory. The way I see it is I am as far from being a positive atheist as I am from being a fundamentalist believer.... And while I think you can pretty easily discount most religions, something everyone of us does to reach the one most people follow(if they follow one at all). proving there is no higher being suffers from the same issues as proving there is to me with the added problem that every single religion could be wrong and there could still be a higher being.
Fortunately, the burden of proof is not on the atheist, as proving a negative is not how reason and logic works.
@@solido888yea it is.
@@skp8748 no. The theist claims god exists. The burden of proof is on the theist.
I remember reading once a quote from Stephen Roberts.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
I always knew that quote as coming from Ricky Gervais.
Now I feel like a dumbass
That doesn't make any sense. The reason why Christians reject the existence of other gods is very different from why atheists reject any gods. Atheists base their beliefs on observation and reason, whereas for Christians it's revelation. The Bible is very clear that there is only one God.
Im an atheist and i'm not sure if i agree with that statement. The reason religious people believes in a god is because they thought their god is the right one, not the other ones. It's like saying i don't believe in evolution because i believe in creationism. They don't say i don't believe in evolution because there no reason for me to
This was a fantastic video! I look forward to the follow up ones.
Humanist and secular Buddhist checking in here. I just wanted to say that this was amazing and I really enjoyed how academic you were about all this. Theists tend to think that someone chooses to be atheist out of hatred towards god or something but that's not it at all. I'm just being honest with myself about how what I do or don't think and feel and I never felt a connection to something "greater" except for when I'm in nature. It is what it is.
Also fun fact: Kurt Vonnegut was Honorary President of the American Humanist Association for many years up until his death! To quote him: “…being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.”
Some of those who feel the connection to the divine through nature call ourselves "pagans."
You can't be both a Buddhist and a atheist at the same time 💀💀💀
@@alfieingrouille1528 You're wrong.
@@JonBrownSherman Buddhism is litterally a religion you simply can't be both a Buddhist and a athestist that's not how atheism works
@@alfieingrouille1528 You're wrong. That's not how Buddhism works though. Siddhartha Gautama was not a god. His teaching was not a religion in a metaphysical sense.
This is probably the only theist that I have ever heard of that actually used the terms correctly. Well done on that.
Aaaaand then completely dances around the burden of proof by simply declaring it not interesting,. Disappointing.. Theres a reason you get the burden of proof. You are making a claim Its insulting to just dismiss it and talk about humanism instead.
Love the way you take a full near 20 min video to fully establish your terms and referents, looking forward to part 2.
Always called myself agnostic rather than atheist believing that term more closely matched my position of "lack the data to make a meaningful choice". I would be interested if there is a correlation of use of term with age as it was in my experience more widely used in my youth than now (80's).
I am incredibly excited for parts 2 and 3
I am more interested in adding to my religious/ irreligious collection of videos on playlist. As an apatheistic person though conversation beyond what others feel ...I doubt I could bring much to the table personally.
"I don't object to the concept of a deity, but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance." (Amy Farrah Fowler, TBBT)
Or cares what we do in our bedrooms, stresses about what we wear, has a need to be worshiped...
Yeah, that one resonated with me.
I agree. It's nearly impossible to disprove that a god could possible exist when the universe is so large and unknown, I simply don't believe in any of the "mainstream" ones. my interest in the bible and biblical figures is similar to my interest in Greek mythology. I like the lore, history, and storytelling but that's about it
@@hillaryandmichaelcrymes3702 I think that the current estimate is that there are around 200 billion galaxies. Galaxies!
And that there might be around 40 billion planets that might support life in the Milky Way alone.
Our galaxy is an insignificant speck in the universe, our planet even more so. It seems incredibly egoistic that a creator of all that cares about judging our daily lives. Greek mythology is a good example what essentially we are doing, creating stories we want or need to hear. And that's fine, that's part of our nature.
Just don't imprison or kill me because I don't agree with your personal headcanon.
I wonder why most humans over time are more inclined to do mischief and bloodshed, if you pay attention to history, and if You think that God needs to be worshiped, God is the creator of this universe, he is omnipotent over everything, he only sent down his teachings so that humans stop doing bad things. If God is indifferent to humans, more damage will occur, but why do you think that God's teachings are what he needs, I think that is one of his affections for humans
@@saadalazmi9965
..., he only sent down his teachings so that humans stop doing bad things. ...
1 Sam 15; 2-3. Scriptural hopscotch is a little bit naughty.
Well, the old gods gained "power" through popularity, or in realistic terms, their cults became more influential because they had more members. Attendance-taking is just a way of keeping score.
I’m excited for part two! I grew up religious but am now very firmly antitheist I’d love to see the trends you found in your research 😊
Thanks a bunch for this video! I was hoping you’d clarify the difference between atheism and agnosticism and was very happy you did. Many people are confused by this (including myself for a long time).
SO happy that you explained the terminology of atheism and agnosticism. So many people who assume they know what they're talking about always get that infuriatingly wrong.
Omg... I'm an atheist and just found out watching this video that my worldview does align with secular humanism. Great job, I can't wait to watch the next video!!!
“Omg” ?
@@The-Devils-Advocate Holy shit!
"Omg," says the atheist...
Thank god I'm an atheist!
You are a gifted communicator. Thank you.
Dang, I’m an atheist and I just learned a bunch!! Your videos are the height of quality 😊
invest ur eternal life
@@tiggigrob8113 in what? ...Bit coin?
Thank you Matt, I start reading your PhD thesis over a week ago. I really enjoy it, as I work on a similar topic for my PhD dissertation
THIS VIDEO IS AMAZING!!! I cannot overstate how refreshing and satisfying it is to hear someone talk about this area without a major bias! I wish so strongly that atheist RUclipsrs would stop pretending that they are not biased, and would stop having a high and mighty attitude. I agree with most of the things they say, and I get the frustration with religion, especially for those of us who were raised in it. But their tone and attitude is so annoying because it's obviously biased and low key condescending.
I cannot wait for your next video! Thank you so much for such a reasonable, extremely well communicated analysis on the labels people use to identify their views and beliefs about the world.
Yeah, I too share your frustration at some of the more popular atheists and how condescending they can be. For me as an atheist (raised religious) I think that having beliefs is ok and a necessary part of functioning as a human! To me it's more important that we continually challenge our own beliefs and biases over time, and introspect on the process we use when doing that.
I honestly do not understand your complaint. Perhaps you have only watched a couple outspoken anti-religion RUclipsrs, and missed all the ones whom do not have this "high and mighty attitude" you dislike?
Btw, I think you misunderstand the word biased. def: "unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something" The key words there are "unfairly prejudiced", so if they have plainly spoken reasons for their beliefs, and invite discussion to explore other views, they are not biased. They have an opinion and are sharing why they think it is correct, and they are telling others that an opposing opinion is wrong, but these actions are not from being "unfairly prejudiced".
@@bjzaba I agree that a few popular atheist RUclipsrs are condescending.
Yes! This is how I feel. On one hand, I'm tired of atheist beliefs and viewpoints being left out of the public conversation. But I'm also tired of many of the most vocal atheists kind of being jerks (in my words). I try to keep in mind that it's probably just a vocal minority of atheists, and I know people have *very* good reasons to be frustrated with religion, to say the least, but it's hard to picture the "silent" majority of the non-believing minority when so many of us keep relatively mum because of the extreme biases on both sides.
So, comments like yours on this video are VERY refreshing for me!
If their channel is in debate with other channels, that’s just what that sounds like, even if it’s a Star Wars watching or corset-making channel.
I want you to know that I have been checking your channel DAILY for the next video in this series. I have the bell on, but I don't trust it enough and I am so, SO excited for the next installment. thank you.
Sorry for the wait. It's due Nov. 25.
You cannot imagine how much I like The Great Courses. I had to travel coast to coast by car for 104 weeks, 250 thousand miles. My companion were those courses! I even enjoyed traveling so much and roatripping all over the US!
This is VERY interesting! Looking forward to the next episode.
As a lifelong atheist, I really have to commend your work. It is clear that you are genuinely trying to understand the position, rather than slapping on a generic label as many theists do. I really admire your objectivity and I will be sharing this video with my theist friends. Thank you for your research.
The one qualm I have is that you mentioned that in debates, atheists usually adopt the negative position, while theists are forced to defend their belief, and that perhaps atheists should have to defend their positive worldview. I don't agree with this stance. As an atheist, when I challenge the existence of God, I am never implying that someone should adopt my worldview. I am simply arguing that a belief in a God or Gods is not justified or convincing. I do this because theists are making a very powerful claim about our existence and the way people should live their lives. They often try to shape public policy and restrict our freedoms to conform to a religious worldview. For this reasons, I think the burden belongs squarely on their shoulders to prove their claim about the existence of God(s).
One Of The Main Problems With Placing The Entire Burden Of Proof Upon A Theist To Defend Their Observational And Evidential Interpretations Of Reality, As Concerns The Supernatural Existence Of A Creator, Is That Most Of The Matterial Methodologies And Expositional Frameworks Which Are Generally Presented As Modern Scientific Standards Are Themselves, In Practical Operations And Applications, Intrinsically Biased Towards A Particularly Matterialistic Philosophy; And Though Truly Finding Themselves Immersed In A Similar Logical Paradox, Unable To Meet At The Same Bar That They Themselves Have Set For Science, Athiests Often Cite These Fallacious Falsifications As Foundational To Their Presumedly Scientific Philosophies. Most Atheists That I Have Spoken With Either Already Know This Or Disregard It As Irrelevant To A Scholarly Discussion.
By All Reasonable Definitions And Logical Accounts, This Universe Is Of Supernatural Origins; By All Observable And Testable Matterialistic Standards, This Miraculous Reality Should Not Even Exist.
I don't care if they want to believe or if they want to prove their claim. I just want them to leave religion out of politics.
@@Turtledove2009 Having A Legitimate Seperation Of Church And State Is Not The Same As Removing Any Mention Of Religion Or Deity From Politics And Civil Society.
*Though I Can Agree That There Are And Should Be Basic Rights, Respects, And Honors Afforded To And Requisite Of Each In Their Public Practice, Whether Secular Or Religious.
@@Turtledove2009
What Is Your Opinion About The Names Of Calendar Months And The Days Of The Week?
Periodic Table Of Elements?
Solar System?
Birth Names?
Holidays?
@@VerifyTheTruth No opinion at all Some of the names are beautiful and honour our history and and traditions and the measure of the progress of knowledge. Some of the names are very creative. Celebrating religious traditions is also very beautiful as is the architecture of churches and mosques. Science is also very beautiful. I just draw the line at politics.
Awesome work. Can’t wait to see part 2
I truly appreciate your video. And especially your point on arguments/discussion at the worldview level.
Atheism is a default state of mind. Religion as the author of the video correctly noted is a product of upbringing. So the right question is why people believe in supernatural phenomena rather than why they don't.
Tell me, Where's the mind in your body?
Your statement is contradictory. People don't automatically need to know how the world works or needs to know ho w to talk. so what is the point of education?
As an atheist (specifically a negative explicit atheist under this framework) I'm always wary when people who are not atheists themselves broach this topic, but to my mind you've done it justice. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series!
if I am an atheist then I will live only for my pleasure, even though it is far from moral and endangers people and the environment around me,I don't care, the important thing is that my life is peaceful, because this is my life and I have the right to my pleasure, maybe that's the picture if I'm an atheist,,then you can imagine if people have such understanding,,and if you think of a world without religion from god,,that is a very dark thing,,religion in my opinion is the love of god for humans so that they live in peace,, but many people stay away from their religion, and if I do that, I will definitely be a fool and insolent
@@saadalazmi9965 If you would become selfish and immoral without the belief in a supernatural deity, that's only because of your own personal shortcomings. Plenty of atheists are good people who try to better the lives of the beings they share this planet with. People who think the way you do make me feel saad.
@@MosesMode but in fact many people who prefer bad things,,,We are subject to our own lusts, while lust leads to more evil
@@MosesMode and if you look at the history of past history, which people have done more damage on earth,,, are religious people or people who are ignorant about religion, and if you think there Religion brings a lot of wars and bloodshed, so without religion it will be even worse, common sense will be covered by disobedience, and no one will ever be able to invite People go to the truth, if you study the life history of the prophets then you will find the impossible that prophets can live when inviting people to goodness.
@@saadalazmi9965 Well, friend, you unfortunately have revealed yourself to be immune to argument. First, you asked who was responsible for doing more damage, then seemed to realize that the majority of wars were conducted either in the name of religion or by religious people, so you tried to save the argument by claiming that if they had been atheists it would have been even worse. Based on what? History? I really think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Atheism is a non-prophet organization.
I once had a roommate/friend who was an explicit atheist who was quite in your face about it. She sat myself, and another friend down to watch a documentary about the Bible Belt (she told us that she just wanted to show us 10 minutes of it, but that turned into the whole 90mins), and would say that she doesn't understand how her mom could be religious, as her mom was very sensible. She said this to me while she knew that I was working on getting confirmed in the Catholic Church. So, thanks for the backhanded insult.
I never once tried to argue against her, as I did understand that each person had their own faith. However, she spent a lot of time trying to subtly get me to "question" my faith. Eventually, I told her that she was the most religious person I've ever met. She looked very surprised and confused, no doubt wondering what drugs I took. I further explained that I'm defining religious as any type of belief in any type of God/higher being. Her explicit atheism was a belief in a God, specifically that one does not exist. Thus, she is religious.
She didn't have a rebuttal. Not sure why. Could be that she just didn't have anything to argue against me, or she was pissed.
Either way, she continued to bring up religion for the rest of our time together. This caused me to appreciate any friend who doesn't beat any topic to death like a dead horse.
Wow, this is pretty exciting. I really appreciate your approach. I only recently watched your whole "who wrote the BIble series," and I'm glad to see you continuing in this way.
When it comes to the question of existence of god, I'm an atheist. But I always felt "humanist" much better describes where I'm coming from. In this vid, you helped clarify some things I kind of understood about my own beliefs and worldview but not always in a fully articulate way. For instance, I wasn't identifying a distinction between "belief" and "world view." The "worldview" concept in the context of this conversation is VERY helpful!
Also - one last point. When you conclude the video essentially saying atheists and theists would do better to debate worldview rather than just argue over deity existence/proof alone - that is spot on! BUT ALSO, I would add that approach would be beneficial in discussions **among atheists** as well. Could just be my humanistic bias poking through, but I get tired of some atheists kind of constantly clashing with theists rather than putting their predisposition towards reason ("naturalism" as you said) to some good use. Again, just my opinion.
Anyway, good stuff. Looking forward to the next one!
Great video, very informative. Looking forward for to watch the next ones. 🤟
I would send this to my mom so she'll learn the definitions of atheism. To me she's more of an agnostic theist than atheist. Or rather confused and searching for answers. I'm an explicit atheist. I've learned a lot from this, and many of your other videos. Can't wait to see the next one.
I did a study for my B.S in psychology on bullying and the mechanisms behind it based on gender. I had to withdraw the survey after 4 days since it too went viral and I had almost 400 responses in less than 4 days. I was aiming for 50. It's a marvellous feeling when you get more than enough responses.
If you're not already familiar with it, I think you'll find the lecture "What makes a bully" by Dr. Gordon Neufeld intersting. It has, more than anything else, informed my understanding of bullying and the role of empathy in much of human behavior. It put it on my channel when the original host went down.
Thanks Matt for helping me to understand which " atheist" I am. Not that anyone ever asked me. In my little corner of the world most of the people I know don't talk about or even seem to really care about spiritual things. Until of course its time to go to someone's funeral
Oh interesting! I can't believe this is the first time I heard of "Axiology." Normally, all the other theories of value are subsumed under Ethics and Meta-Ethics. This is definitely better, with Ethics, Meta-Ethics, Aesthetics, etc. categorized under something with no preconceptions attached to the name. Plus it completes the "-ology" trilogy with Ontology and Epistemology.
the way you differentiated between types of athiests is really interesting! these days i would consider myself an athiest, but i've thought a lot about my position in recent years and i think i would fall into the "do not care" implicit athiest category. i recognize and respect that religion/belief in god are important parts of a lot of people's lives--they're just not at all an important part of mine.
I felt that way for decades but then they started taking away rights based upon their religious values. They shouldn't have the right to make everyone else obey their religious edicts. So I'm no longer "do not care" and actively opposing religion again.
@@havable but not every religious person has the power to do this, and depending on where you live, people of certain religions are being actively oppressed. this kind of thinking actually leads to discrimination against followers of the faith that is not currently in power. take a look at what is happening to muslims in france, for example.
@@breensprout It's a wrong answer but a answer to decades of failed attempts to integrate a substantial proportion of muslims a laizist, secular and humanist culture. It is also a response to national trauma such as the Paris terror attack where 130 where murdered in 1 night by islamic terrorists. Also it is also a response towards oppression of women in islam.
Islam has the intrinsic claim of cultural, political and spiritual dominance. It is more extreme than Judaism or Christianity in that and this poses problems with modern secular societies. Islam needs to be secularised but how this is possible i am not sure.
And any group, religious or not will try and enforce their standards if they have the influence.
Do you not think a Muslim majority would try and introduce Sharia law? There is no such thing as democracy in Islam.
I'm with you on every one can believe what they want, but those beliefs can morph into actions that affect people who don't have the same beliefs. Look at reproductive rights in the US.
@@Cheepchipsable do you even know what sharia law is? like can you tell me anything about it actually? laws that are part of a sharia system?
As a positive atheist I find your research so refreshing. It is just: there are atheists in this world , let's put them into charts and analyze them. Looking forward to the next video.
If you're a positive atheist then you actually are an atheist. "Negative atheists" are agnostics.
Well done. I think this is great, and I wish more people would see and understand this.
Fascinating topic! I am personally one who was raised with a strong Christian belief but, after long consideration and reasoning, realized I was an Atheist. My position is that I don't have any solid reason to think a god does exist, however, I do recognize that many people do derive great comfort and strength from their spiritual views and religious practices. It's a complex and satisfying field of thinking. I've just ordered your book and look forward to reading it!
We had this thing at my college called “Coffee with and Atheist” where religious students could come sit around a table with atheist students and talk about stuff. The look of disbelief I got when they realized I was one of the atheists was really wild. I think they were expecting an argumentative contentious sweaty atheist dude or someone who looked overtly rebellious/counter culture. Instead they got a little red haired girl from Texas who looked essentially like all of them. I’m not sure what I expected but it was not that reaction. They were shocked and fascinated. Kept asking me so many questions. I’m still not sure what to think about it.
Like in other areas, the loudest and rudest voices in any debate can set a perception that is applied to everybody else who talks quieter and more politely or who don't talk at all. The Internet is notorious for making this problem even worse. With something like atheism, the loudest voices were "first out the door," so to speak, and have greatly influenced the perception of atheists as people who are going to bear down and tell a religious person that they are a bad person for believing as they do.
Maybe because of this, I find the reverse to often be true as well, that any criticism or critique of religious beliefs, practices, or teachings - and not anything to do with a person holding those beliefs - generates an offended response.
@@MichaelMerrittCT Very true but it also works in reverse. As an atheist when someone says "Christian" or "Muslim" my mind conjured this extreme portrait even though the majority of Christians and Muslims I meet in every day life are "negative theists" (for lack of a better term).
Nice. I also had an experience like this with my future sister-in-law. She was grilling me and all my answers we along the lines of, “No. That’s nihilism.” “No. That’s Satanism. I don’t believe in Christianity, so the devil comes along with that.“ I think the is a caricature of an atheist that gets built among the religious that can only be dispelled by actual talking to a real person.
To me, to have strong believes in christianity (or any other main world religions) is old fashioned. i'm from the Netherlands, Europe and "More than half (55 percent) of Dutch people aged 15 years and over are not religious". So religious ppl becoming a minority here, we have alotta people with a new believe: "ietsism" (you gotta look that up on wikipedia, it's very intresting!). Having a free mind and think and question and investigating things is very very normal, never forget that! Instead of blindly following a believe/religion. Luckily we (now) have a seperation of religion and state: freedom of religion. Which makes everyb more open and emphatic or maybe more tolerant towards eachother, i think. I can talk on for ages! :D
subscribed for the history and beautiful charts, but this video was a welcomed surprise, interesting stuff. excited about the other parts.
Thanks, this was a really interesting video and I'll definitely be checking out the rest. As an atheist, I've never really given much thought to how I'd categorise myself (clearly explicit and positive based on this video). I also really appreciate the worldview section - I realise that most argument I have with theists aren't really around the existence of God, but rather the values we hold and I think framing these values as a separate thing from belief like this really helps to make better arguments, but also really helps to reflect on my own values. Thanks!
Nice!!!!
Definitely eager for Part 2 and 3.
I started watching this channel for the history explanations which are excellent. Although a hard core atheist for many years, I enjoy studying religions as part of history and culture. I plan to watch more of his religious videos because this vlogger explains things so clearly and rationally.
You have a gift, Matt Baker -- a true gift. Well done.
Thank you! The effort for clarification is much needed in those kind of discussions. You very very often see people talking at cross-purposes with those topics, so it is the only way that those debates become more fruitful and people actually have a chance to find common ground.
Great video. As an atheist myself, I was worried that you might misrepresent us. But your analysis seems to match my understanding. Good job, very respectful.
These things seem basic to me, but it's stuff we sometimes have to keep on repeating in debates.
I really like what Dawkins said (it's not an actual good definition of course, it's for you to get the picture): in the western world, an "atheist" is someone who sees Yahwe the same way everyone sees Zeus or Odin.
Everyday different this channel sharpens my brain
What a wonderful video! I really love the academic breakdown without the inherent bias that seems to come with this discourse. Personally speaking, I'm an atheist but I'm also a historian who specialises in medieval Christian theology. People have a hard time grappling with that but I don't think you have to be a believer to appreciate the beauty, literature, and culture asssociated with a faith. Nor do you have to be religious to find wonder and mystery in creation. Imo one of the greatest joys in life is not having all the answers. It means we have a lot to learn from each other, which is wonderful, if you keep an open mind.
I am recently finding the topic very interesting. Possibly with the perspective that these stories were taken from stories past down thousands of years, morals to teach, and people started changing them to include their "new" idea that a god made it all.
Am I crazy?
Anything you'd recommend to read?
@@gomezfriesen Ohhhh, lots but a couple of my favs are "Pearl" by the Gawain Poet (a poem about the conflict between grief and faith, told from the perspective of a father who lost a child) and Hildegaard von Bingen's "Scrivas" (a series of mystical visions written written by an incredible polymath)
@bellewether4534 thanks!
I am going to look that up!
Firstly when I clicked on the video I was a bit skeptical, but it turned out very and very interesting and informative!
From this strong/positive/hard atheist ... good job, Matt.
I am a weak, soft, and flaccid apiarist and scared of bees. U'Charts are essential rather than useful.
God sees atheists the same: ingrates who will pay.
Except babies. They're too dumb to grow out of atheism.
This is a fantastic video! It summarizes everything so nicely and with the right nuance. I even learned some new terms to describe my position. As someone who labels themselves both an atheist and a humanist, thank you.
Edit: Just one thing though. I do not hold a positive belief that the universe is self-existing, meaning "without cause and existing independently". I believe that it had a cause, just not a causer. I also believe in the possibilty that there might be some sort of "outside" to our universe. While I do believe in these things I also consider myself agnostic on the issue. As it stands we haven't found any evidence for or against the universe being without cause or existing independently. Even big bang cosmology only gets us so far and anything beyond is pure speculation. It's likely we will never find a way to test this and as such, the claim that the universe is self-existing (or not) might be unfalsifiable.
The universe was around "before" time, it's pretty hard to imagine something causing something when before and after don't exist.
@@coast2coast00 People keep saying that but who's to say that time didn't exist before our universe? In whatever caused the universe to come into existence? And if we speak of cause and effect, isn't there necessarily a before and after involved? We don't know of a single instant where the causal principle is violated, it's easier to assume it always applies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
This was fascinating, thank you!
This video helped me to identify (linguistically speaking) more of my present self. Thank you Matt Baker! Your videos are a wonderful influence in my life.
As an atheist from somewhere in the global South, I would have loved to be a part of your survey.
Huh, this is a new direction.
I have a couple of questions regarding the group you surveyed:
1) Do you have any knowledge where they originate from (which country), sice the level of religiosity of their surroundings might influence their worldview?
2) Were there measurable differences between people who started out as theists and became atheists and lifelong atheists?
I'm thinking a lot of the responses are likely from "Western" countries considering where the surveys got responses on the internet.
Having come from a religious (Catholic) upbringing and having had friends from youth that have either become more more religious or up to full-blown forceful Athiests, I can say a few of the Athiests have a resentment toward Theism in general. I don't fault them because their religious upbringing was very oppressive. I consider myself an Athiest, but I'm more of a relaxed Atheist. Just be a good person, don't hurt people, mind your own business kind of person LOL.
Ya i was thinking the same...Americans use reddit the most.
@@TheHomerowKeys "Western countries" includes a group of wildly different states regarding the influence of religion on everyday life, a good contrast would be the USA vs sweden.
I personally started out as a theist and became an atheist, but since i didn't have to deal with theists for a long time i didn't think about the topic for many years.
This only changed when i moved and had to deal with religious people on a somewhat regular basis (including a roommate who wanted to convert me)
Sorry you had to deal with a roommate like that. That's not fun. His research wasn't about upbringing or how vocally religious a region was to people who describe themselves as Atheists. I would be interested in what you're talking about though.
I grew up Catholic and a number of my peers grew up to be very vocal Atheists because of how oppressive their upbringings were. As an Atheist who grew up with in a very heavy-handed faith-based community in the American Northeast. I'm not as resentful to religious people as some of the now-Atheists I grew up with, but I would definitely say environment in youth definitely plays a part in how you view (a)theism later in life.
@@TheHomerowKeys What i was trying to express is, that if basically everyone around you is an atheist, it becomes less important in regards to your worldview, at least from my experience. I have interacted with both communists and radical nationalists who are atheists and they wouldn't necessarily align with the humanist worldview.
+people can have various supernatural beliefs while still being atheists.
What i am curious about is wether people from these regions are represented in the study or bot and if yes if they are the exception or the rule.
My current impression based on where the survey was spread is that it is probably representative of american atheists and not atheists in general.
Thank you for this video. Your care and respect for the topic is clear. You’re the best! As an atheist I’ve seen the worst of people’s perception of atheism and this is a breath of fresh air in contrast!
This is a really interesting topic! I have thought a lot about my position on the topic and I find myself agreeing with all the points made, I feel like I know myself better now. I am considering bying the book, but I am afraid I will end up not reading it, because school basically traumitised me when it comes to reading.
Thank you Matt. Congratulations on your thesis and I’m looking forward to episodes 2 & 3.
This was a fun romp through stuff I hadn't interacted with much since before I finished my philosophy bachelor's!
Consider me an explicitly agnostic atheistic who is excited for the next videos!
I'm Czech, I'm an atheist, I was born an atheist and I've only ever been to church to perform (sing/play). I feel like American atheists have to defend their position a lot more than Czech atheists who mostly just don't care about religion very much. Most Czech atheists that I know aren't naturalists and think that there is more to the world than the physical but they are unsure or don't care about what it is.
You were born without a proposition on the subject whether the world has a creator or creators. Without a proposition is not the same as having a proposition of NO.
And having a proposition of YES is not necessary related to religion/church/sing/pray.
@@adamc1694 Nobody claimed they were born with a "proposition of no" ...they were born with no proposition. As you already admitted.
No proposition of god, no belief in god.
@@LastBastian exactly. My parents said it was up to me to make up my mind about this and they didn't really talk about their believes but I've never seen them pray or attend church... Although I would say they were somewhat spiritual at times...
@Iva Kaderková Same here. I don't understand why people get their backs up just because they have different religious beliefs. It truly seems to be an American thing.
@@adamc1694 You can call it proposition, you can also call it a brainwash. If nobody comes up with the idea, you don't even start to think about it. The question is not coming up by itself, only other humans can provide you with their fantasy.
I'm glad you've defined the terms properly right out the gate. I'm sure you're aware how annoying it can be when someone (usually a religious person) does not understand the definition of the term "atheist".
I tend to say I am in principle an agnostic who at least provisionally arrives to being an atheist through reasoning using the information at my disposal for the time being. And that if acquiring in the future new and/or different information I might have to reassess my current reasoning and might therefore end arriving to different conclusions than as for now. (sorry if not being clear, as English is not my native language).
Are Buddhists considered negative Atheists? After all, there are no gods in Buddhism, but there is something to believe in....
I was curious about this. Thanks Matt.
Hey buddy! How's Taiwan?
@@UsefulCharts Good. It's way more developed and western than I expected. Though teaching is a bit anxiety inducing. But I'm liking it.
A brilliant summary. Makes it much easier to identify where one's beliefs, or lack thereof, fit in the overall matrix. You are right about worldview - it is a consequential of both theism and atheism. I wish there was more debate of nuance in this sphere.
Huh, interesting, I guess I never expected this topic to pop up, it is does make a lot of sense.
Having seen this first part, yeah, I knew I am just like the average atheist in terms of my worldview.
Guess I'll be looking forward to the next two parts!
Thank your for this! I look forward to more about this. I would like to know more about "agnostic theists" , however. I think I might be one.
I am an atheist who would be very happy with liturgy etc. I've often thought it would be good to celebrate "the eurcharist" in silence out of respect for the unknowable. I can see myself attending a completely silent very high Mass, incense and all. I found some of this in a Buddhist phase and still hold to some of that.
To me the single best evidence in favor of theism is that someone like Matt is still an theist despite knowing so well all the beliefs and explanations of atheists and having studied different religions at a high level. I would appreciate a video on that.
Or possibly a great example of cognitive dissonance.
A single theist being honest is all it takes? Thats a pretty low bar.
Thank you for this video.
It basically has no value to an atheist, because (for the most part) they (we) understand these distinctions.
But I do really hope that many theists (or apologists...who are the worst at debating or even understanding the terminology) will see it, and get to know something new.
I've found very frequently that it's other atheists who are quick to misunderstand terminology and religion when it comes to debate.
What frustrates me to no end is atheists who refuse to even understand religion and it's many points of nuance.
@@Itgetsbetterofficial My original comment wasn't about "nuances in atheism" (whatever that even means), or even nuances in religion.
It was only about nuances in language use.
@@muchanadziko6378 I'm not sure why you've quoted me as saying "nuances in atheism" as I didn't say that.
Though if you're having trouble figuring out what that phrase WOULD mean, you are in the comments of a video that would straighten things out for you. (Even a part 2 if you're still struggling!)
@@Itgetsbetterofficial I just summed up what you where saying and anticipated the wrong interpretations by future people reading this
That wasn't the most important part of what I said, and you didn't reply to anything else.
But you didn't reply to the part that referred to you, so I guess you didn't have anything to say?
@@muchanadziko6378 I already said what I had to say? The failure to understand is on you.
I don't think theists are universally bad at debate, I've seen many other Atheists who are horrible at it.
I'm not sure what dreaded "wrong intepretations" you think you're protecting people from haha
I am a dualist and didn’t even know it. Thank you for this explanation. The scary part is it all makes sense. 😄🥰
Around 60% of the UK are dualists. Most people who are dualists don't even know it. Most people never really think about philosophy, let alone ontology. Most people use the term soul without ever even giving it a second thought of whether or not a soul is independent from the body.
I guess it is not uncommon for people, even if they never notice how they subconsciously and intuitively assume the mind being independent from body, if they are confronted with a rebuttal, they won't accept the evidence against dualism easily. Even subconscious presumptions will create bias and cognitive dissonance.
@@biedl86 I've been trying to think more methodically about what it is that I actually believe about the world because I've noticed I have some conflicting ideas, so this video has provided a means by which to categorize my thoughts that's been pretty handy actually. I haven't solved everything in an evening or anything of course because there are reasons I hold conflicting views that are not easy to tease out much less address, but.. I now have a fair idea of where I sit ontologically, epistemologically, and axiologically.
@@stevepittman3770 It's a fun process learning about the different worldviews out there. The video was only very terse in that regard.
I'm curious about your ontology. Do we exist? Are there different realms? Do we have a soul?
@@biedl86 Here it was more a case of learning about a good framework by which to sort out my own ideas, but yeah I try to seek out differing viewpoints and ideas and perspectives all the time.
As an atheist[1] that loves both your religous and historical content, I can't wait for part 2.
[1] I'm a soft atheist and go by a philosophically agnostic stance of "we do not know, and may never know", but I'm also a "i don't care about religion anyway" type of guy.
Also i was raised secularly by a catholic father (who'd I say is more if a "soft chatholic") and an "on the fence" mother.
So not really but kinda agnostic thiest like background
@@emilymullen4832 yeah kinda. for me growing up religion/theism was just the occasional funeral, wedding, or being dragged to curch twice a year (xmas and easter) until my dad was like "you guys (my sister and I) don't have to go if you don't want to" and thus we stopped going to church.
Tbh, most of my life has been mainly apathetic towards religion on a personal level, and accepting of other religions on an outwardly level.
Very courageous of you to put out your own thoughts on a difficult subject. Can't wait for part 2!
why courageous..? why difficult..?
@@paulflute I was thinking the same thing, and then i remembered that in certain parts of the World he would be killed for even speaking about Atheism, I was lucky I'm just a recovering catholic. . .
A job well done!
I can’t thank you enough for doing this study and actually reaching people with this video!
Watch Dr Haitham Talaat videos,for your own good.
@@nael1722
I’ve watched him. He feels more like a preacher or an apologist rather than a “doctor” to me…
Well made! I’m a rare Agnostic Theist. I’d love to hear even more about Agnosticism eventually
Then we are two
@@koppadasaoThree
@@2ndfloorsongs Hope you check out my comment too, then
Matt seems to think Agnostic Theist is the same thing as Atheist, he just think they are Weak Atheists. The split between Agnostic & Atheist is much wider.
An Atheist tends to be a person who knows there is no God and uses empiricism as the basis of argument. Agnostics are people who question whether there is a god and has a further breakdown into Theist Agnostic & Atheist Agnostic. A Theist Agnostic tends to think there is a god but no human or religion has defined or can define an infinite being. An Atheist Agnostic tends to be empirical, go no proof but I think it is/isn’t possible.
It is a good breakdown but it ignores the fact that Agnostics are not Atheists. It also does not examine the fact that many Agnostics practice a religion & tend to dismiss where they & the religion disagree because they think the practice is good.
Agnostics, if you take in Religious Agnostics (ie. practitioners), probably outnumber Religious & definitely outnumber Atheists.
The Unaffiliated, which Religious people are classing as Nones, actually tend to have a god, just not the same one that exist within any given religion.
Just my thoughts on the subject, primarily that Matt as a Religious lumped two groups who do not belong together as one. I, as an Agnostic, do not agree.
PS Within agnosticism, you can find plenty of people who do not rule out a Godhead and others who go back and forth. So Agnostics definitely are a separate category from Atheists.
@@cheryldeboissiere1851 You know claiming to use empiricism to prove what can't be proven logically, makes no sense. Just because you can't find evidence for a creator, doesn't prove that a creator didn't exist. It just shows that such a creator, if he exited, just didn't sign his work in a manner readable by atheists.
So, in reality, it just boils down to one question: Based upon the complexity of the universe, or perhaps, the multiverse, is it more likely that everything was created from less than nothing. or that everything just sprouted into being from less than nothing?
The likelihood of the latter being true isn't just astronomically, it's basically impossible. The number of values that has to be set correctly randomly, is staggering. It is more likely that a chimp can type out Shakespeare by hacking randomly at a keyboard.
All atheism is, is a demand for several miracles, which are quickly dismissed as random events with no explanation, and then atheists will explain everything else, while ignoring that their scientific structure has no stable foundation.
Looking forward to this!
I wish you’d been there when my high school teachers tried to explain humanism 😂😂😂 this is the first time I feel like I can finally understand it