THINGS GAY GUYS DO BEFORE COMING OUT | INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA | PJ & THOMAS
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2024
- Hey y’all,
We want to talk about something that most members of the LGBTQ+ community struggle with: things we try to hide or change about ourselves before we come out.
We’re discussing the things we were ashamed of when we were young (playing with dolls), the things we wished were different about us growing up (our voices, mainly), and why we felt shame by not doing what society thinks a typical young male should do.
We also talk about internal homophobia and how it still affects us today in some ways. We feel it’s an important topic and would love to hear if you’re experiencing this, too. When we share vulnerable things that we’re embarrassed about or ashamed of, we realize that maybe we’re not alone and that many more people go through the exact same things as we do. It’s a comforting feeling and it's one that can sometimes bring us all closer together.
We hope you enjoy, and let us know in the comments below what you think!
Best,
PJ & Thomas
Internalized homophobia definition: the involuntary belief by lesbians and gay men that the homophobic lies, stereotypes and myths about them (that are delivered to everyone in a heterosexist / homophobic society) ARE TRUE.
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We're PJ and Thomas, husbands living in a small southern town in Tennessee. We have a passion for restoring old houses and interior design, and in our free time you'll find us eating pizza and watching movies, drinking wine, and saying "y'all" like it's our job. We're so happy you stopped by, where we focus on topics like marriage, design, LGBTQIA+ issues, and every day life. Won't you stay a while?
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#gay
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#comingout
I actually had an amazing dad who would take me down the Barbie aisle and say out loud “Derrick pick a Barbie out for your friends birthday.” And then he would even buy a birthday card so that I wouldn’t feel shamed or embarrassed. My dad was so supportive of all of my brothers and never once made it weird that I loved girl toys.
U r blessed
U r lucky
Derrick that’s amazing and so beautiful!!!!
@@ThePropertyLovers you are both awesomne ♥️
Awww 😍👏🏽💖
The guy on the right look like Riley’s dad from inside out
Still cute though! XD 😀❤️💯
J Nuy o yes definitely
That's low-key my type, TBH ❤️💙💜💚👨❤️👨😍😘
Awwww!! 😍😍😍💖💝💖💝💞
@@jnuy764 😘😘😘
I hate my recorded voice, it doesn't sound like what I hear in my head.
Bell Canyon Italian It never does. I hate my recorded voice too. I always think I sound like Prince Charles, but hearing it recorded I sound like my mother, who sounded like The Queen.
Bell Canyon Italian never does!!
Fun fact: our voices sound different to us because the sound has to travel through the resonant space of the sinus cavity to reach our ears. That resonant space makes us perceive our voices as being a bit lower than they actually are.
...and my dad said I would never use my music degree. 🙄
@@gusty0814 My voice in my head sounds super smooth but in reality it sounds to me like female Homer Simpson. 😅
For much of my life I completely hated my voice. But oddly I’ve recently started to like it more. I still dislike a certain twang in my voice that comes out sometimes, but I’m working on accepting it more and more, especially since most of the people I meet actually like my voice.
I feel ashamed about turning my phone off when my parents walked into my room so they didn't see me watching this... 😔
Haven't you found a mate yet?
Don’t feel ashamed! It’s at everyone’s own pace ❤️
Hi
Imagine if you parents saw you watching gay porn 😳
No
I appreciated this video A LOT. I'm 25 and it just amazes me at the amount of effort I put into literally being someone that I was not. All of that wasted energy and anxiety and worry just to want people to accept me. THE GAG IS...there were people who still didn't like me haha I'm much more confident in myself and my sexuality but I do find myself falling back into "bad habits" every now and then. I'm in a constant state of growth and acceptance of all aspects of myself (concerning sexuality and not) but I'm glad I have the self-awareness to want to make those changes and recognize when I'm not be authentic to myself.
Kyle Cummings thank you for sharing, and thank goodness for self awareness!! ❤️🙏🏼
😊💖
✌️
I'm hetero and I relate to HEAPS of this stuff as well. Thank you for making me more aware of myself :)
The thing is that your straight but P.J. and Thomas and many people on this thread are identifying certain characteristics that point to you're probably gay I wonder how many straight
guys share yours and their experiences?
I am so glad you brought this up. It seems to me that these stereotypes are just as harmful for straight people. I know a lot of straight guys who were tortured because they looked or acted gay. Whatever that means. I have lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for the past 30 year. I have a policy of never discussing my sexual orientation (especially at work)
@mervyngreene6687 I'm one of those straight guys. I came from a family where if you didn't look and act like Rambo grandpa would "smack the faggot" out of you.
when they ask you if you have found a girlfriend...
Oh, yeah. In college, I was still struggling, because by then, I'd had to admit to myself I was really gay and that isn't going to change. But I still hadn't reached where I could come out yet. -- And so in late high school and in college, I would get asked if I had a girlfriend, what girl did I like, and so on. Even at church, by the most well-meaning people. -- I distinctly remember wishing one time that I could just say, no, I liked guys, I didn't have a boyfriend. -- And somewhere in there, even though I was having real trouble with it, I began to get really annoyed that NO ONE would ever dare ask if I liked boys, if there was a boy I liked, if I had a boyfriend, because that would have meant they'd have to admit I might be gay, or confront themselves with it, or me. -- There were a couple of times church ladies or other women my mom's or grandmother's age suggested some nice girl. It irritated me that no one ever thought to suggest a nice boy. This, even though I was still struggling with self-acceptance. All through my preteens and teens, I desperately wanted friends to be able to talk to who would be OK with me being gay, or with anyone being gay. Yeah, I also wanted some friend(s) to test the waters with, to figure it out. Y'know, fool around, or more. But that didn't happen as a teen. (Fumbling near misses, one time as a preteen with a boy from one of my classes.) -- What gets me is, I am pretty sure this was common for boys in my generation who were gay. It's is probably still too common today. I want a world where the gay kids can be just as open and accepted as the straight kids, where it's perfectly OK to ask a boy you like, or show affection the same way straight kids do. I wish we could all have that. It would be so much healthier than how many of us are delayed into adulthood or close it. And maybe it's more common than I realize for boys to try things out, growing up, around their teens. But I wish no one had to be so careful or worried or ashamed. It would be better to learn at the same time as the straight kids do.
@@benw9949
The first time I went through the whole, "do you have a girlfriend?" thing and then had "boyfriend?" as a follow-up that sounded completely natural, was quite the shock. It was from a manager at work, and I was so used to hearing the second part as a joke or with disgust that I almost didn't know how to respond.
Ben W i relate to this so much!! I hate when people talk about girls and stuff like that with me. I wish they would ask about boys.
Don't know whether I'm lgbtqap+ (sorry if that's wrong) at the moment, but when I said I had a crush on someone (she was a girl, I'm male), my mum asked "who is he?" So I don't know if she misspoke or thinks I'm gay. Also my sister knew I wasn't sure about my sexuality and my friends have asked if I'm gay multiple times so....
That's a really big issue when you live in a small town. I just can't say I have a boyfriend. I just lie that I haven't found any. Some of my friends actually know.
I used to hate my voice too. :(
My classmates used to teased me. They used to say I walk like a girl, I talk like a girl. I used to try to behave as they do. But I just couldn't. Now I just be myself. :)
I sound like a girl and my classmates make fun of me. Sigh
Im a girl and my voice is deep and high at the same time
Same here, school was hard because of those comments, being constantly teased, but when start acting as yourself (Highschool/University), it's so goooooooood
Love being myself
@@joeltj2 Same for me! ❤
I've started undergraduate now and all my classmates here are so supportive! I'm all okay now.
Most gay guys do hate their voice I think and everybody does at one point
It’s a weird thing where it’s seen as a giveaway to someone being gay, and also some sort of subconscious projection thing where younger guys are wanting to feel understood or overtly homosexual in someway just because there dating pool is already smaller and more shallow than average people
And straight people who don’t have the deepest voices either hate gay men if they don’t have the voice also because then it makes them upset too or feel lacking even though it may not be lisps or whatever
I'm so glad that I grew up in the house that I did. My parents allowed me to play with Barbie's, dance instead of playing basketball, and, today, allow me to do drag. Keep in mind I live in a Christian family.
Same here I’m 24 i always did girly things or doing things like: sewing with my mom or playing with dolls when we visited my uncle who was gay. I was never interested in sports like football or in some way doing what normal boy would do. My mom didnt have a problem with that she would even bought me a doll and she played with me. About 12 years ago i was reading something about gay people on internet and in my head there was a voice that said : that is you. I listened to that voice and then like a lightning in a white sky i realised that i was gay. I am so happy with who i am and im living my best life from that moment on.
Never be afraid to be you. I've been comfortable in my skin for years it is a great freedom.
Vintage Mobile Home Life love it!
My situation was a little bit different than for a lot of gay guys when they were kids. I didn’t really have a lot of girl friends, and I didn’t want to play with dolls or do “girlie“ things, but I wasn’t interested in sports and trucks and things like that, either. I would’ve been happier playing board games and reading than anything else. My parents had season tickets to Vanderbilt basketball games, and a number of times my father would take me when my mother was not interested in going, and I was always bored out of my skull. I didn’t have much in the way of feminine characteristics (though I did talk with my hands a lot), but I was a theatre kid and loved musicals. And somehow I didn’t associate musicals with being gay, so I didn’t really try to hide it. I think one of the reasons that the movie “Love, Simon” (and to a lesser extent the book it was based on) meant so much to me was that in a lot of ways I was very much like Simon - someone who could easily pass as straight without even trying. And that made it so much harder to accept that I was gay - that and a bunch of other reasons that I’ll probably tell you about someday. But I definitely had internalized homophobia for a long, long time.
Lane Wright thank you so much for sharing. It’s a different perspective and we need more of that!
i have such a similar story to you (and simon). i’m not overtly feminine at all unless i’m like enthusiastically joking about something. that makes it harder to accept that part of you bc u feel like it can’t be the case and u never felt different but you are.(like you, that’s not my full story and reasoning, but i feel like that’s too much for a little youtube comment)
same here! i look and act like a straight girl so lots of people think i’m straight or are really surprised when i tell them i’m gay, because i’m so straightpassing. this made me think i was bisexual for nearly two years. i didn’t look or act like a gay girl so i couldn’t be 100% gay. turns out i actually am a lesbian. i hate the stereotypes that people put to lgbtq+ people because it makes it so hard for people to come to terms with their actual sexuality when they don’t apply to those stereotypes
I’m not trying to stereotype lol but I want to ask if you’re a bottom. I read an article that many of the stereotypes of relationship roles are [usually] legit. There may be different ways to become gay even if it [probably] does happen around the same time [probably] in the womb. There are just differences between straight men, tops, and bottoms. It even shows up in brain studies.
Bruce man1 i think some people feel forced to live up to stereotypes so people notice who they are. no one knows i’m a lesbian when they look at me because i don’t fit the stereotype, so some people will dress/act in a way they do notice which is the stereotype. but then you have people who actually act and are this way. stereotypes don’t come out of nothing (most of the time). there must have been a lot of people acting and looking a certain way for it to exist, but you do have the stereotypes that started in a hateful way
I've always been ashamed of my voice too, but recently have learned to be proud of it especially when people comment on my southern accent
Alex Childers good for you, that’s amazing!
i HATE my voice... thats a reason wgy i dont talk in my vids
GrenHuskyZard I am sure you sound sexy too, LOL!
I bet your voices sound awesome 💙💜💚
I don't like listening to my own voice too on my voicemail or videos. I heard myself when I spoke in my sister's wedding video and I hated it!
You both look SO HOT tonight. I love listening to you guys. You are such an important voice for the LGBTQ+ community. We are so fortunate to have you guys. I am 100% certain that you change peoples lives.
tj troy aww thank you!
Completely understand dudes. As I too have difficulty showing various forms of masculinity, especially for me as a brown male, society still has that notion gay means only white people. My voice as well isn't as deep so on the phone I get called mrs or sometimes in public get called the incorrect pronoun she/her. This has mentally destroyed me and doing my best to focus on the positivities of my male lovely body and mind. Anywho, glad ya'll shared your story. Hugs love from Toronto
It's the cishetero white patriarchy.
Thomas, so handsome, articulate, grounded, well adjusted. A real gem!
Gaj Lambert you are so sweet. Thank you, friend ❤️
PJ and THOMAS He be right!
Tony Vang Yeah shut up, dear!
@Tony Vang 🤦♂️ gtfo of Here!! 🖕
Adorable! ❤️
I also have always struggled w my voice and didn’t like it and how high it is, but I recently got sick and my voice naturally got a little lower + rusty and when I was telling a coworker about it, she said, “Well I hope you get better soon, your natural voice is so beautiful.” And once she said that, I kid you not I was so touched I was on the verge of tearing up. Like for someone to actually compliment me on something I’m insecure about everyday, it’s such a hugely appreciated thing for me, and I don’t think I’ll ever forget her telling me too.
Can you believe? That was cool of her to do that!
Wow you guys nailed it. I'm 70 and when I was 6 or 7, I asked for a doll for Christmas and my parents told me that this would be my last one. Then they bought me a red wagon which I put under a trailer hook and ran up and down on the wagon until I had banged it up. I know what a brat but I was an only child. I'm much better now. Also last summer I met a older cousin who I had not seen in over 50 years who advised me " Jerry dear we knew you were gay at 2" LOL. Joke on me as I left home at 18 in order to live my life without my close knit religious family knowing.
I too find sports so boring.
i only watch sports during county jail visits 😂🏳️🌈
Sports are not boring with the exception of both baseball and golf.
@@r.pres.4121 the most boring sports
@Martin Guilfoyle f1 is the only true sport left
Smashing that like button. 100% relate to this. If I'm not in an explicitly gay place (bar, beach, pride, etc) then I'm actually afraid of holding my partner's hand... that's how ingrained it is.
Chris Keener is that internalised homophobia, or is that just safety awareness? There are plenty of gay people still being beaten up or even murdered just for being identifiably gay in public. Being out and proud is great, but being not beaten up is even better! Please stay safe?
Me too!!!!
Me top..
We've all felt those internal homophobic tendencies. Great job articulating some of them, especially so straight people have an idea of the struggle we've all gone through as LGBTQIA+ people.
Well done as always! 💕💕💕
Im 14, going on 15 in June. And I'm pretty sure as I was growing up throughout the years, I had internationalized homophobia. My mom and dad told me as a kid many many times that doing certain things that girls do isn't right for boys. My dad was a heavy homophobe, and despised gays, but when my sister came out, ig he changed his view. My mom wasn't really that much like him though. I always listened to female pop music alot and I still do today, but I also sort of hide it because I also feel a bit ashamed. I don't really listen to rap like that either, I definetely have a masculine and feminine side and it shows, and my parents sometimes question this. They're different and more accepting today, though. I'm thinking of coming out on my 15th bday. I wanna open up more to them and my family, and my bday seems like that time to do so.
Real Rimaj most of a year later - how did that go for you, honey?
Real Rimaj You keep silent... Are you fine, dear?
Come out as the real you! I wish I had! I didn’t come out till I was 30.
how’s it going now?
Woww I didn’t know people were asking for an update lol. But its lot better! I said this when I was 15, I’m turning 19 and graduating high school simultaneously next month (time really flies), I’m more out and open with my sexuality. Both my parents and my family were loving and supportive when I came out, however I was sort of outted to my dad by my aunt, she called him up and told him I had something to tell him because she didn’t want me to be afraid to hide the truth (he said he still loves me though despite my taste for men). Still both masculine and feminine, feminine resonates with me just slightly more though as of right now. All in all, I’m definitely more carefree and less worrying about others’ opinions on whether or not they will accept me for what or who I like! Tldr: All is good now ☺️
Wow, I relate to the voice, music, Barbies, and crossing of the legs comments. Personally, I like your voices and accents. It's funny how self-conscious I felt as a child but now I'm comfortable in my skin. Kind of like an idgaf mood to put it lightly. LOL. Part of it is growing up with age and another is dealing with homophobia and adversity. Luckily I'm fortunate to have a supportive family and friends so it's important to keep them involved. Anyway, such a good video topic, and please keep up the good work.
I'm intersex and my voice barely changed. I was literally told to 'quit lying to myself' and 'sing like a man.' Was very traumatic. Quit singing, quit public speaking, or verbalizing outside of calling cadence in ROTC. Worked really hard to try and lower my voice.
In college though a music theory prof asked what we had done in music before. I told her the truth and she was amazed at my range and took me to the medieval consort where was accepted for my voice. I sing soprano 1, as if were a castrati. Started talking in my natural voice and kept on.
I really wish intersex was taught in school, right along with all the other stuff about sex ed and biology. If more people knew about people being intersex, it might help a lot. As far as I now, I've never met anyone who is, but I was surprised to find out about 2% of the population are. My only experience, aside from dealing with being a boy soprano, then finally changing to between tenor and bass, was when a woman at church, years ago now, told me her grandson was having trouble with things, being made fun of, self-doubts, because he was late, delayed puberty, and this was due to interference with his pituitary gland, a small tumor I think they did surgery for, I don't recall clearly. I only met him two or three times, and I was in my late 20's and at church, so I was only going to be supportive and friendly, and try to let him know he was accepted as he was, that his grandmother had talked to me. I never knew if that helped any because it was so vague, and I had no idea how he was really feeling, what he was going through. But along with me being gay (and still not out at the time) it made me more sensitive to any issues surrounding not conforming too well to social norms for sex and gender. I hope that intersex folks are more accepted now, especially as part of the LGBT community. As hard as it was growing up gay, it must be so tough for folks who grow up intersex or feeling trans or things like delayed or early puberty, anything that doesn't fit into society's expectations. And I wonder how much (a lot) I don't really know about those things. Heh, I was around 14/15 when my voice finally changed and I could just barely start shaving at late 15, such a big deal. I had been so, so self-conscious about my voice, since I was a boy soprano and kind of high up there. For a teen who has to deal with that longer, or lifelong, it must be difficult and so important to find acceptance for who you are.
Who are some of your favorite singers. I'm inspired by Andreas Scholl
As a gay man I was never naturally drawn to what society would call "effeminate things".
But there are other ways of internalized homophobia. It's not necessarily related to having girl toys/clothing....
I never liked carnival and I always hated shopping for clothes, and even as a child it would never have come to my mind to try out make-up or play with girl toys, but I was often ashamed of my music taste. I like that very girly music every now and then hahaha
In school I once said I liked Lady Gaga and then everybody laughed at me, so I learned not to tell people again about the music I listen to.
@@flopunkt3665 Just dont listen to the stupid people and Just be you, listen to whatever you want! Put the Volume high and don't Care about the haters. Ive Always hated the Labels for "Girly" or "gay" music (If Thats even a Thing...) Yeah, but I feel you in some way....I Just never were ashamed of my music "taste" fortunately!
Internalized homophobia sounds like trying to make something out of nothing. Like trigger words. We have bigger issues on the gay scene like runaway STDs, drugs and religions who want us dead gaining political and societal prominence
I am a gay men I wish a had a boyfriend right now I live in Reno nv
I don’t relate to feminine gays at all.
Thomas, next time you come to a stop light, roll down the windows and crank up Lady Gaga's Born This Way! Own it honey! Love you guys :)
yaassss!!! :)
I present the way I do because of internalized homophobia. I learned as a 5 year old when I cut my own hair to look like my male cousin, that "pretty" girls have long hair. I always just wanted to be one of the boys. All my early childhood best friends were male, all my cousins were male. If my mom hadn't purposefully found me female friends, I honestly think I'd be presenting as a butch lesbian. I've cut my hair short a few times since then but still every time I do it, it's never the haircut I actually want. It's never the masculine cut I desire, it's always a short feminine cut. I've literally had multiple occasions where people refuse to cut my hair the way I asked for it because they are afraid I won't like it that short. If only they knew how much I hate my long hair.
On Oct. 11, 2018, I came out and I feel like I'm struggling with my internalized homophobia even more. Everyone says when they come out, I'm still the same person blah, blah, blah, but if I'm being honest I never wanted to be this person that I am. I want to be the flamboyantly queer person I am on the inside that only my best friends know, but my deeply rooted internalized homophobia is keeping me from that reality. I'm literally now afraid of how people will react or treat me as a female bodied queer person with short hair. One day I hope to break free. Love the video Thomas and PJ! Thanks for being part of my online queer community. You don't even know how much you've helped this queer! 💜💜💜
I wrote 2 paragraphs but believe me, I could write a book!
💜💜💜
girrrrrrl i hope you finally had that haircut you dreamed about in that comment and i hope you're doing great ! that was a very brave comment you wrote and recognizing internalized homophobia isn't an easy thing to do, you can be proud of yourself !
@@CassDunham Do write that book, for your own sake!
To then make it readable for others there is help to be found on the web, YT, FB, etc.
But first: write! Nathalie Goldberg has written for your inspiration: "Writing Down the Bones." That book is just like you feel inside! Wonderfully alive!
Do look it up - it is never too late!
Thanks for the honesty. It can and will help people.
ehhjeep we hope so! 🙏🏼❤️
Internalized Homophobia, this was a new idea for me. I recognized many of your examples. I'm 72 and still working on healing these scars. Thanks for the new outlook.
Today i realised that i am gay. And I felt kind of bad. But i told my bff and he was ok with it. (Hes also gay) And after watching you guys i feel way better about it. Thank you!
good for you!!!! congratulations on coming out, friend! xx
Congrats on coming out! 👨❤️👨👨❤️👨👨❤️👨👨❤️👨
I'm only 14 (male) I'm bisexual and a while ago I told me lesbian friend I was Bi and I was so ashamed of myself. I have autism,Anxiety and depression. I couldn't eat for 3 days after coming out to her.
@@corpsenugget455 I'm bisexual as well. You shouldn't feel ashamed, as you have done nothing wrong. People care about you and support you. If you want to talk about anything, I'm here for you.💯💚💙❤️💜
@@corpsenugget455
youtu.be/addme/i7tOx367-bU653Qfm_j1KNqZBLV5sw
Very sweet guys thank you. Strange growing up I wish RUclips existed - this one little video would have solved so many years of pain anger and of course so much fear.
David Fenton we wish it was around, too!!!
Well, I am still trying to overcome at age 63. Came out at 48. I also played with Barbies, styling hair, dressing them. Loved the colorful outfits. My brother in laws, both made fun of me as a child. They were married to my order two sisters. Did not care for sports either. My escape was music, playing piano and organ. My fat brother in law would call me fat. My Mom hated my Gay Uncle. My Dad was a Baptist Minister. I knew I could never be Gay. The cues were there that I was gay but my family refused to see them.
I'm so sad to hear that. The only solution is to leave bad people behind in order to move on in life. I hope things will get easier for you now.
At least you were able to come out ten years younger than when I did. I'm sixty, and have only been out for two years. It is criminal what society did to many of our generation.
Randy D. and Michael Dyches,
When I hear such stories of the older ppl who didn't have more of freedom aspects the youngs have now... I hurt so much. I share this opinion - It is criminal what society did.
Are things better for you now, 2020? Has it become a habitual thing to treat you, address you and have you as part of the family by your relatives and others?
This is a super important topic that no one really talks about. Thanks for putting it out there
Guys. Seriously thank you for this video. I just came out as gay in October 2019 and that’s after being married to a woman for 12 years. A lot of what you shared is exactly why I hid and lied for so many years. Thank you for this and being so vulnerable and honest. You boys are an amazing couple.
Lukas Stevens: 12 years?? She didn’t question anything in that time? Anything like the lack of sex or she had to always initiate or you didn’t respond to any stimulation? She never asked if you ‘were limp waisted’ or ‘had sugar in your boots’. You are a great actor!!
John Pickford it’s a long long story man. If we were friends I would share all the details. Just to summarize on social media: the writing was always on the wall. Take care. Be safe
Lukas Stevens: Well, maybe you didn’t want to accept how you were born-and it is ingrained at birth-I don’t believe the shit about it being a choice. If it was, that means straight people made a choice after trying it both ways? Hmmm. But realizing that you’re gay is not always the blessing everyone thinks it is and it causes greater pain on the shoulders of the beholder. You are fortunate if you can ‘pass’, have friends, good at sports or don’t have any ‘gay characteristics’ which isn’t possible for all. Likely your ex thought she could change you or thought it didn’t bother her (“Sex isn’t an issue so at least I get a good nights rest” but it’s wrong to think there you two weren’t intimate) or there were other reasons. And perhaps you thought along similar lines. But good luck to you and yes, I don’t have friends and would like one.
John Pickford cheers. I’m not doing this on social media. Wish you the best bro. Life is a journey and always good along the way if we choose to see it. Take care of you.
I just want to thank you guys sooo much for talking about this topic, and for being so honest and open about your struggles in the past present and future. It's so nice to know that I was not alone growing up gay. A lot of the things you mentioned, like having someone buy you a barbie, really hit the nail on the head with me and my childhood. It's refreshing being yourself, and I feel like I am learning to be comfortable in my skin more and more each day. This video really helped with that already, and I couldn't thank you enough!! Great work guys, as always. :)
Dylan King thank you so much for watching and sharing parts of your story! You’re helping people by doing that!
Love everything you both said because at the end of the day we just want love equality and no homophobia and it's amazing that love and equality it stomping out homophobia xo
Yes!!! 💖💖💖 I agree. Love Conyers all. 💖💖💖
Yes Brent!
Thanks for sharing.Most people don't see how much damage is done to people when we try control people to conform to lies to make others seem acceptable.Never be anything but who u are.Love yourself.
I hated my voice growing up as well 😩🤦🏽♂️
Yeah me too. But I am now fine with it.
Red Fireball## yeah i love mines now lol I’ve accepted it
Same, but I still like deeper voice 😭
@@jingwoy8737 how did you get to liking your voice?
Am I the only guy who has always liked having a high pitched voice?
Thank you guys for helping people understand the psychological mechanisms of internalized homophobia and how damaging they can be for young people. Also, thank you so much for acknowledging the vulnerability of our youthful selves (at any age) and how to just believe in your own self and have an amazing life and friendship with your loved one.
I did ballet too until I was about 11 and then quit because I think I fell out of love with it since I was always teased for it and asked whether I was a boy or a girl. I started again about 15 years later and now I love it again.
When I was 11, my best friend at the time did a modern dance recital for our 5th grade class/year. I clapped and cheered my little heart out. I didn't yet know why seeing him dance in that leotard made me feel so good, so happy. It wasn't anything sexual yet. I didn't know yet that I liked boy / was gay. It was years later when I realized this was one of those first big clues and it showed I was starting to wake up to those feelings. So it was just a boy liking his friend dancing very much, and yet it was also one of my first overt signs I was gay. I am fairly sure there were always clues like that, bt I wasn't aware yet. A few weeks or months later would be my first conscious awareness of liking boys, with a friend from another class. Hah, but my reaction to seeing y friend in that leotard, dancing, was so strong and so positive and happy, it was.a clear sign, I just didn't know it yet. -- I can remember talking back to one boy who said something during the performance, telling him off. I don't remember what I said, but he shut up, so it must've worked a little. Yes, later on, I'd be more self-conscious and insecure about me being gay and how other boys treated me for it. But I had loved my friend dancing. I thought he was fantastic. I don't think I could even consciously think yet that he was cute / handsome, and yet that was somewhere in there, a beginning awareness. LOL, though I wonder if I would've passed out if he'd been in just shorts or bare! My kid self might've gone on overload. I was very thrilled as it was, just had no clue why yet. And I look back on it as sweet and funny that I was so naive. -- He was great. I wish he'd liked me that way. -- So for some boys, it might really brighten their day to see a (boy) friend dancing his heart out. And hmm, I suspect the leotard helped. Haha.
THANK YOU, i'm 66 years old, its funny how life truly is a circle, i experienced so many of the things you've brought up, i'm new to your channel, and i really like it, you two are awesome people, i plan on folowing you. thank you again
Hi ya, thanks for a great video, your honesty is refreshing, just as is the challenge to route out that dreaded internalized homophobia !!! Good job
The McKays' topics form such an important part of our public education. This discussion illustrated with personal reveals will speak to many viewers. What a gift both of them are to the internet!
This is so great! Love that you’re putting this into the world ❤️
This is the first time I have consciously recognized how embarrassed of being me I have been my entire life. Thank you for that choice of words (because they resonate so clearly) and for that insight.
It's not a sad thing. It's actually a wonderful insight because now that I have the awareness, I can try to address it.
You'd think someone of my age, advanced academic degrees and job experience would know that about himself. Nope. And I think I know why. I have never had a significant love relationship/partner in my life to share my life with, to bare my soul to, to be lifted up by.
It's a generational thing. I'm in my 60s. The world I was born into and my upbringing told me every day that I was strange, a freak of nature, something to be ashamed of. I celebrate for you two and your generation that you have a more accepting, more tolerant, less hateful world.
I have only recently stumbled upon the powerful experience RUclips can be, and I deeply appreciate men like you who post the content you do. Thank you.
I came for the thumbnail..... never showed that scene 🤷🏻♀️
Kyle Lee Asbury Same here...lol. But I loved the video regardless!
Here's a subject in which all of us gay folks can see ourselves. It's a wonder we made it this far without going nuts! All of this internal checking and worrying about the sound of our voice, our posture, hand movements, and basically controlling our bodies and personalities to fit in with what's considered "normal". My father even remarked about the way I waved my hand goodbye and to not have a limp-wrist the way girls do. These comments and other subtle cues really wreck havoc on our self-image and esteem. No wonder I'm such an introvert! It takes a lifetime to unlearn these messages that were inherently abusive. Thanks guys for talking about such a hugely important subject.
Amazing conversation to start gents. If this helps one person to realise the way they feel is normal then job well done! My partner and I have been together for 12 years and still show little PDA because of internalised homophobia.
I really really liked watching you. You are pointing out many aspects that made me realize I am not alone with thinking about that. I am 37 now an have difficulties with internalized homophobia. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Your experiences and comments help me coming to terms with myself better.
Please excuse my English. It's not my first language. Greetings from Germany
OMG I would do the same thing when listening to Britney in the car. She is my favorite but I was so ashamed of other people listening or finding out I liked her but little by little I started to just be myself and stop caring about what other people might think. I mean sometimes I still feel a bit odd but 🤷🏽♂️ I really enjoyed this video and it's great to start this conversation
gimmemorehector thank you for sharing and watching!
It's definitely a lifelong process of unraveling all of the things we internalized growing up. It's great that you guys are so self aware and that you're talking about it!
I’m not gay but I went from being a bisexual guy to a pansexual someone who only care about personality over a almost a hole year also wish I found u guys earlier cuz u guys r a very very cute couple🥰
Karlson Tremors II ❤️❤️❤️
Hi Coll.mi
This is an awesome video PJ and Thomas! I felt I was the only one in the world who experienced these sort of things growing up. Especially with wearing bright colors like pink, walking and talking in a certain way, social activities where it mattered what you did in which it affected your social status, and people saying "that's so gay" or "that's too gay" is ones I experienced growing up. Now reaching an older age in college and not caring about the stereotypes associated with the above, I have the ability to express myself how I want and not be affected by the criticism.
Omg I hated my voice too. It always gave away the fact that I was different (gay) I remember going to a new school in 7th grade and not talking to anyone bc I was afraid of getting made fun of... I sat alone at recess and lunch bc of it 😞
heartbreaking Donovan. sending so much love to you xx
Happy for yall. Preparing to come out soon, so this vid is really helpful
It's funny you mention being self-conscious about the way you crossed your legs when you sat. I don't know where you live or where you're from originally, but around here a lot of straight men sit like that, especially the more traditional intellectual and professional men. My grandfather sat like that and several of my uncles do as well.
I am gay, I felt ashamed, internalized gay, I keep pleasing people around me so I do not want to judge, and I need to keep to my family my sexuality as they can not accept it. All I want is to be loved and accepted, but it is hard, keep lying, hoping someday they can slowly accept. Thank you for sharing, I can relate so much, hope you were my dads, life would be easier for me. I love you PJ and Thomas ❤❤❤.
For me, everything was “in secret”. As a child I played with dolls, played dress up, read teen beat magazine. But in public: rode bikes, skateboards, climbed trees, etc. I did everything to hide my true self - to be perceived as “normal” or “like the other boys.” It was and is a life long struggle for me. I watched how I walked, talked, and carried myself. My family was not accepting and I just couldn’t choose me over them.
Very profound:. I couldn't choose me over them!
It is great if you 'fit in' but if you don't/can't be the best YOU you can be. Just because something is different does not make it any less! Learn to accept the idea that you, no matter how different, are GOOD ENOUGH ---- for anyone. And that you are certainly good enough to be accepted, appreciated, and most importantly, worthy of being Loved!!! And all of this needs to be done by YOU, for you, as well! Everyone needs to accept, appreciate and love themself! But few do. And fewer do it with real conviction.
Self acceptance is so vital to your good mental health.
If you can't love you, who can? Or will?
And if someone does love you despite your doubts they almost always get pushed away for being wrong, stupid--- something along those lines. The unloved person seems to need to prove to the loving person just how wrong they are! Tragic! But it is done all the time.
The idea you have to be perfect before you deserve or are worthy of love is BS! No one is perfect, but that idea somehow gets lost or over looked in the process.
Please accept yourself. As you are. As is. And then you can accept those around you. Flaws will always exist. And until the day you die you can work on self improvements. But that doesn't mean you are not worthy in the mean time. It simply doesn't.
that was such a nice video to hear...thanks for sharing it, to hear all my "internalized homophobia" and for it to actually be a thing and not just me....just makes me feel so much better.....between hating the way my voice sounds, the music turning down thing, the way I walk/sit/ talk with my hands....its just nice to hear that there is a reason for me to hate who I am, and its not because of me
I'm a straight girl, but I love watching your videos, especially the ones like these, to learn more and to keep me open minded. Does that make sense?
N it makes sense and it is so appreciated, thank you! We wish there were more people like you in the world!!
@@ThePropertyLoversThank you for making videos and helping people!
@@snsl28500 Thank you so much girl! We need more people like you on our sides! A tight huge hug from Greece 😊❤
@@_george_jorge2067 Thank you
It makes perfect sense, fellow gentile. Don't worry about the confusion, go to the gay disco.
I am so sorry you guys and any other lgbtq+ people had/have to experience such things...like growing up isn't hard enough already... so I will always support anyone, child/teen/adult or whoever who just want to be themselves! Love and support you guys! 💙💜💚💟🌈
I never want people to feel bad or ashamed of who they are or what they like!
It's crazy how we are all the same no matter where we live. Almost same issues, worries...
We are like some special human race 😁. Great vid.
Big Lio I totally agree. I wish there were more decent gay people around me. That’s why I like RUclips. It makes me me less alone.
Wow totally relate to all of this. It's made me quite sad really to realise how much we try to confirm as young people.
All of the above, I relate to all of these. Jeeze, this is why I’m glad to have grown up and out.
Good video! we need more awareness-raising on internalized homophobia and oppressive situations that gay people constantly undergo! so much love💞
I never wanted to wear pink sparkly slippers, put on makeup or play with dolls. But at age 13 I learned how to crochet, and later that year to knit. Unlike you I could argue that it was just something I liked to do
Guys, I relate so much to everything in this video. Thank you so much for sharing your stories. Its nice not feel so alone with my experiences growing up. I'm the eldest of four boys so my childhood was surrounded by motor bikes, fishing, camping and football. I'm from a small town too and the pressure to fit into that masculine mould was always there. Luckily, my parents never overly pressured me to follow my brothers in all their activities. I developed a love of the outdoors, gardening and animals instead. My family supports Australian Rules Football. I was hopeless at playing it but I enjoyed going to games to admire all the footy players in their tight shorts. haha. I didn't come out until my early thirty's as it took me that long to accept myself and feel confident enough that my family would accept me. I can remember thinking in my early twenties that I would never come out and I'd rather go through life and die alone than ever tell anyone I was gay. Kinda sad that wasted most of my twenties with this negative perspective. Internal homophobia is still something I battle with from time to time but as time goes on I find myself less worried about acting a certain way. Having positive role models like you guys has been a massive help to reprogram my brain and to show myself that one day I might be able to find someone special too.
Thank you so much for sharing!!!
@@ThePropertyLoversykjYki
@@ThePropertyLoverskhfyt
I think a lot to gay men have internalised homophobia, without even realising. We just need to love ourselves, for who we are.
Gender stereotypes suck, period. My son played with dolls and wore high heels often when he was young. He later developed a strong interest in sports. I’m glad he was free to play as he wished. I hate it for y’all that you have felt/feel these emotions. I think our youth is moving towards feeling more free to do as they wish to feel themselves. I certainly hope so. No one should ever feel ashamed of showing their true self. You guys sharing your experiences will most certainly help people immensely. ❤️
Fun story : in choir I don’t lie about being gay but I try not to let people guess ..... and I accidentally called a friend sweet ...... I had a panic attack for like a minute
This was really helpful. I really think my husband is gay. I have pretty good reason to. Anyway, it’s delicate and i want to help him accept himself and not put him in a place where he shuts down and feels ashamed. There’s nothing for him to be ashamed of. I was devastated at first but really I just want him to be happy and true to himself.
Many times gay men have to make that sacrifice to fit into society. The problem is that they drag people with them. I hope everything went well 💙💙💙.
Omgoodness this video was sooooo cute. Walking "like a girl" was a big thing for me and sometimes even now. ❣️
Brian Lupo ❤️❤️❤️
Wow, this was the most honest and relatable video I’ve ever seen on RUclips. This resonated with me on so many levels, especially when I turn my music down at a red light. You’d think at 35 I wouldn’t care. Thank you for sharing.
Unrelated, my husband and I were on the Edge cruise at the same time as you. What a fun and beautiful ship. Glad you guys enjoy it.
Brandon! Thank you so much!!!
Also, hate that we didn't get to meet you on The Edge!! Maybe next time?
xx
Seriously, thank you for sharing it. It’s the first video ever I’ve been compelled to comment on. And our next Celebrity adventure is 2/14/20; the 9-day out of Ft Lauderdale on the Silhouette. See you guys there?!
I just came out maybe a few months from now. It's exhausting trying to put all your energy just to hide who you are, when i did came out it was somehow liberating, but there's still this weird feeling inside of you like you're being judged and look down upon. Sometimes it's fine but there are times when it gets to you and you feel ashamed of being gay.
Robin L totally get it. It happens to all of us at some point or another :(
Hi r you looking for a boy friend I am looking for a lover 💏💘💞👅👄💋💋💋😍💭💭💭
@@tonydrabenstott4745 Me too 💏💘💞👅👄💋💋💋😍
@@pedomcpedoson6213 where do you live at?💘💌💌
@@tonydrabenstott4745 Sweden, Stockholm 💘💌💌💌👅👄💋 You?
@PJandThomas- thank you for doing videos like this, even though this video is old 1 year 3 days later it has touched me. Yes, a 28 year old single guy that still in his inner search, thank you guys.
One of your best videos to date! Such an important topic, thanks for sharing
Jamie Scott thank you so much!
I have a big one where whenever I go into an Ulta or Sephora I told my mom that if anybody approaches us we’re shopping for her. thank you for talking about this I don’t here a lot of people bring attention to it
Hello guys, I knew I was gay at age 13 and never thought twice about it. One funny instance is the first time I peeked at a Ken doll and was very disappointed. Then I looked through my sister's old Playgirl's and knew I found the meaning of life. I never concerned myself with what people thought of me adoring Streisand, hating sports, nor any of the typical gay man's worries. I suppose I'm lucky to have such an attitude.
My son was more effeminate than the average male. He did the hand gestures and had the girly voice. He loved to play with barbies too. He started telling everyone I'm fabulous; which isn't normally a guy thing. He got a lot of flak from strangers and some family too. I told my family to leave him alone. He came out as asexual at age 16. He just turned 21 and he's never cared a bit of what others think. I raised him that he was his perfect self and he flew with it. Glad you guys are working through your internalized homophobia. Positive video.
Kendra you are an inspiration for mothers everywhere. Your son is lucky to have you!!! Thank you so much for sharing.
xx
TURN up that BRITNEY SONG and play some SUPERFRUIT! BLAST IT!
thank you so much for being open and honest and sharing your stories with the world. there are so many people out there that need to know that we all have these things in common that we struggle with xoxo
I watched my mom put on makeup. I mirrored her domestically: cooking, cleaning, doing laundry.
I cross my legs. I don’t like sports. But, I pretended I did.
I would spend the night at my cousin’s. So, I could play dolls with his sister while my uncle had him doing boy things. Cuz, I don’t have sisters.
All of that self monitoring when I was younger was very taxing and bad for my mental health.
Thanks guys. It was hard and still is as a 44 year old gay man.
I definitely belive it was. People forget just how brutal it used to be just a few decades ago. My heart goes out for your bravery, either if you came out young when it was still difficult, or if you told others later in life when you finally felt safe.
I definitely believe it was. People forget just how brutal it used to be just a few decades ago. My heart goes out for your bravery, either if you came out young when it was still difficult, or if you told others later in life when you finally felt safe.
as a generation Z gay (i was born in 2002) i think a have a lot less internalized homophobia than you, due to the fact that society is a lot more accepting and i don’t care what someone thinks of me.
when i was little i used to love playing with winxes but i was not ashamed of it and nowadays i put makeup on everyday at school and even if someone looks at me in a wired way i like to think that it’s because i’m not a conformist, not because they’re homophobic.
i’m really lucky because my school is super lgbtq+ friendly and that are strict rules against homophobia.
i’ll always be proud and grateful for your gay generation for fighting against stereotypes, I came out thanks to you guys, especially thanks to PJ. love you guys, i don’t know what i would’ve done without you. Lots of love from italy🇮🇹
I've always wondered how much of "internalized homophobia" is actually just the fundamental realization that we're doing something that makes us different from ~90% of the population. In other words, how much of it is really society/family/media/education/etc. and how much of it is just the realization that you are different from the majority (and that will never change). Would you feel comfortable standing up in a crowd, and singing rock ballads at full voice? Probably not, because such behavior immediately changes you from a member of the crowd, to being different from everyone else in it. My feeling is that (sometimes, not all the time) what we call "internalized homophobia" is mostly just the same insecurity everyone has...our insecurity just happens to center around "gay" behavior. Humans evolved to be social as a means of survival. Thus, anything that makes us different in a significant way could trigger this instinctive fear of "holy shit...I'm outside the group, and that might come with consequences."
That said, yes there can be causes that are external forces (school, family, etc.), and they can be damaging. I just don't believe it's the whole story.
The Metal One wow this is a brilliant point and we’ve never thought about this before. Will definitely be looking into this more, thank you!!!!
I’m straight and I can still relate to a lot of what you said. I grew up with brothers. So I didn’t do makeup and always dressed like the guys. I had a deep voice and people always thought i was one of my brothers. People thought I was a lesbian in school. I didn’t like the guys in my town so that’s ok to. When I had my son people would say to me... you had a baby... with a guy. I think stereotypes happen no matter what you do and who you are. Just a perspective on someone who isn’t lgbtq and still faces the same stereotypes.
I'm 37 and I still act much more masculine around my family than w friends or by myself. I wish I could just be myself always. I've been out since about 17ish I think.
You guys have made this California senior's life: "Brighter" "Positive" and "Enjoyable" - Thank You , and please release more of your 21st Century experiences.
Alan James thank you so much for watching ❤️
I hate hate haaate my voice. 😑 it's so high, I sound like a 12 year old. I'm 19.
Sammmmmmmeeeeeeeeeee
Your mate will love you for your voice don't be ashamed of it
Aww y'all seem so nice
Wow. This dredged up a lot of memories that hadn’t been enumerated before. Some were more like scabs-& a little unpleasant. But difficult things only get easier with a airing. I subbed.
I love the 'stache. Looks fantastic
Tom Selleck 'stache
Wow, as RUclipsrs the fact that the one guy (sorry new to the channel) talked about having trouble listening to his voice, I totally relate. It's nice to know that there are other people out there that you can relate to that break past their insecurities and live their best lives despite them. That really gives me hope and makes me feel more understood.
When I drive I make sure my widows are down and blast Britney 💅🏼
It's Britney, bitch.
lincoln trevett please can we be friends
Antonio Vasconcelos of course honey
when bush 2 was in office, britney did an interview ans said we should all support bush. i never gave her a moments notice after that. no one who supports me will also support that bigot
I blast out "Don't Fear the Reaper", by Blue Oyster Cult. But, I drive a vintage hearse.
Guys - Thanks for doing this video about this important topic. It is relatable on so many levels.
Growing up in Jamaica in the 1980s and 1990s, I never cared for sports either and I didn't dance to songs that may have been considered "too happy"...at least not in public. 😊
Now, as an adult, whenever music that I love comes on, I AM DANCING. I even open dance floors.
PJ you are rocking that Burt Reynolds Boogie Nights mustache Very hot man. Great topic internal judgement has its place if it makes you a better person
I could watch PJ talk with that stache all night long. So hot. Keep it babe.
Thank you!!
Awesome video PJ & Thomas. Their are so many people that should see this video. I myself had a mother that grew up on a farm, but then moved to Milwaukee, WI. And when raising me already at 4 year's old she knew I was Gay. And just excepted me. But let me come out to her when I was 16, so I didn't feel something was wrong with me. But Yes, I grew up and live in a Small City(Old School). Thank's Again.📹👬🐕🐈🐐👏
John Blaha your mom sounds amazing ❤️❤️❤️
@@ThePropertyLovers - It was all great up until 2 year's ago. When my older 1/2 brother took over her Life. She lives with him and is no longer able to Call me or to come and visit me. Because the cell phone she has, he pays for. And the car she drives he paid for. And she lives under his roof for Free. And his daughter is Scared she and her little brother will catch being gay from me. So Ta Da! And my mom's Family now doesn't have nothing to do with me either because of my brother and religion. So it's only Me and my Puppy. That is ok LIFE goes on I Say!
@@johnblaha275 Choose your family - with people who love, accept and support you for who you really are. These are the people who are your real family.
I guess we all straight or gay hate hearing our own voices.
Omg I relate SO much! There are so many little things I do that I never even realized was a product of my internalized homophobia. Growing up I had an older sister who was very girly so I would play with her barbies and I loved dressing up in all her princess dresses. My parents and family friends would always tell me I shouldn't be doing that, so it's something that I have been ashamed of all my life. I've only recently come across videos like these that have shown me a lot of gay kids did this when they were young, and make me feel so much more comfortable. So thank you for sharing your stories!
“Would sit there for hours bored out of my mind....” “UGH😑”.
🤣🤣🤣 the PAIN!!! 🤣🤣🤣we sympathize!!
Hey PJ and Thomas, I start to reflect on my past life as I watch this video and feel relatable. And I remember like when I was 13, I dressed up as a Tang-dynasty styled ancient Chinese princess just because the costumes are so pretty. I didn’t even know I was gay back then. And I used to dance like a slithering snake with my body when I listen to rhythmic music like Beyoncé or something like that WHEN I’M ALONE. I was so afraid to be seen by my family because I just had the preconceptions that they might not be okay with that or they might think that it was too much. And now after I came out to them, I just do it in front of them fearlessly. And it felt SOOO GOOD! And I agree that we all need time to work things out like that. But to this day, I don’t know if it’s really a thing or not, and I just think that gay guys really should be in shape or else they’ll be unwanted or undesirable, etc. I’m also working out now but my body shape just can’t seem to be like an ideal one, not even close. Do you guys think that this is also one of the internal homophobia or just my body shame? Do gay guys really need to be in good shape to be able to you know, be wanted or desirable?