Bring back the straight back!!!! Theres a push now to do so, because it went to far and it looks really uncomfortable for the GSD to be slopped so much. My dad use to tell me of a GSD he had from his father (who was a vet). The dog was a war-dog (German) had heavy bone, square / jowly muzzle - not pointy, and one ear flopped down in half. he had a straight to slight slope.
Congratulation with the making of this superb video clip/documentary...GREAT! Enhorabuena con la realización de este magnífico videoclip / documental ... GENIAL!
The old style are the true breed. Americans, always have to change something it seem to their liking. I sometimes wish they leave it alone. You go to Europe and the dogs are so much larger. I like the old style best, because their large, they don't have the annoying hip problem, they haven't been messed with. Old style is my dream dog :)
I bought my first GSD 9 months ago at 8 wks old. He has no curvature whatsoever. His hind legs are very long and his back is straight across. He is a black and tan named Rocky. I don't know if he is an Old fashioned GSD or not, but he does have papers and is definetley a thouroughbred. He is absolutely the smartest dog I have ever had.
our past and present German Shepherds have all been straight backed ( American Breed ) they were of normal size and Knut our boy that we have now is 28 " at the shoulders and leggy as our other 2 were not - a lot of comments about his size beig compared to a young deer in size - and I keep his weight at 90 lb, he is supersized and our beautiful companion for 7 years - and your German Shepherds are awesome...
My vet said my German Shepherd Dog is "old school" (his words). My GSD "Scout" has the straight back, and is on the lean side at just a wee bit over 80 pounds. When he is around other GSD, you can really see the difference, and Scout is fast, and more agile then the other dogs. It's like Scout was built for herding sheep, more then combat. Thanks for putting up this vid. I now see my dog is a bit of a throw back to the old days.
Mine is also the "old-fashioned", traditional breed, he looks exactly like the 1940's German Male, I love him. However, on18th Feb he has been stolen and still missing till now, that's a heart-broken moment I ever have. I miss him
The original, as near as can tell, was very similar to the four Belgian shepherd types and the Dutch shepherd. My breed (golden retriever) is also extremely screwed up by the fancy, which now demands an entirely different color from the original type. They also are breeding in the heavily boned dogs that were cursed in the early days of field trials as being too coarse to their work. This was when goldens were part of the flat-coated retriever breed.
I agree with you 100% Shayla!!! i have a 15 month German Shepherd (Female) who has the straight top line back!!! She is sooo pretty and strong too. Great watchdog for the house!!!
My GSD has the same (or very similar) lines as the 'old' style but yet her lines are from the newer look. Very well put video, it for sure made me think ^_^. I never have liked the newer GSD's I always thought that the way they stood looked painful and forced..
Without critizizing the dogs in the videos, a shiloh shepherd is not an "old fashioned german shepherd". A shiloh shepherd is a mix containing german shepherd. The founder of the german shepherd, Max vom Stephanitz wrote the breed standard around the 1900's, it has not been changed since then, however it has been misunderstood. Von Stephanitz purpose woth the GSD was to make it the best working dog in the world. Not a familys companion. These dogs are untypical, just as the show GSD is.
If Von Stephanitz should came back to the world of the living in these days....He would attend a dog show and when he is shown the Champions and the judges say to him: "These are pure German Shepperd dogs", I am sure he will respond: "No they are not. And.........by the way......what do you mean by saying they are pure?"
I have a German Shepherd who was rescued ,so i do'nt know her blood line.Luckily she does not have a very sloping back,so i presume from what i have seen off the video this is good.I hope!!
@AAAmar I don't know much about King Shepherds but I know that the Shiloh Shepherd was founded by a woman named Tina Barber and that she injected some Alaskan Malamute into the bloodlines of her German Shepherd stock to increase size, straighten the legs and produce a milder temperament. Czechoslovakia has used German Shepherds extensively and they produce sound, rather aggressive working lines, usually wolf-gray in color, but they are still purebred German Shepherds, not "Czech shepherds."
that's the way a german shepard suppose to look like, not those little wimps we now see. my family in south america always owned german shepard and i remember they used to be large and strong dogs!
Your dogs are simply beautiful. I could never understand the reason why the dogs displayed in the dog shows have those awkward slanted hips, when it's supposed to be not only a family loving pet, but a working dog. Simply not the case with your dogs. Keep up the great work. MORE VIDEOS PLEASE.
judofan, German Shepherd show dogs work better with the sloped back. German Shepherds in the 40's and 5o's most of them had the sloped back. There is nothing wrong with a sloped back dog. Idiots think they are in pain, suffering and cruelty to the animal. This is a myth.
great video pioneer are producing what is in my eyes a true to the original standard G.S.D. ! if you know where to look you can still get old fashioned G.S.D.'s in britain !
i wanna have GSDs like in 4:01, 4:11, and 4:25...hehe. :) good job for keeping the traditional look of the breed. i really want to have one of those. :)
Thanks for doing this! Amazing dogs! Here in Hungary there are alot of GSD`s that are more straight and bigger than the "normal" american lines. They have a more straight back, taller, and a really nice temper. When I finish my M.D. here i will bring one home to Norway. =D
Also, as stated in the video, "While not reaching the usual size of dogs bred today by Pioneer German Shepherds...", there were show winners in the late 50s/early 60s that did range from 95-100+ pounds that can be verified through the GSDCA website. Those are not small dogs, and a book referenced from the 1940s states that the average public DID prefer a dog that exceeded the standard size of 22-26 inches.
I had found a stray and turns out to be an Old Style German Shepard. He took kindly to our cat and will always walk by my side if someone strange comes by. My question is why would any one would want to let this beautiful animal go?
@JackKangaroo1 "Czechoslovakia has used German Shepherds extensively and they produce sound, rather aggressive working lines, usually wolf-gray in color" - i think you're thinking of the "Czechoslovakian wolfhound" which are a managed wolfish breed .
Im sorry you had a bad experience but not everyone in show treats their GSD like that. My dog and her family have wonderful lives. I have never seen a dog so happy before and she loves the shows.
I grew up with the German Shepherd and so did my parents. But now I find the rounded back or sloped hind end types. I want one of the "old style" German Shepherds, it's too bad they are so expensive.(I' a single mom). I find the hunch backed type for a much better price, but won't buy one. I remember that book, it was very specific about the angle of the back not being very curved and the hind quarters not being too angular. It's too bad the "old" ones are out of the general family's budget.
Anytime a dog is bred for a certain look, it takes away from the function. AKC is the worst about this, and what they’ve created in the American GSD, is criminal. Even the West show lines are nonfunctional. The GSD is a working dog and cannot work when it walks on its hocks. I’ve had Shepherds for 20+ years, like a lot of us, and by far the most functional, healthy, and beautiful shepherds are the DDR, and Czech lines. It’s not about beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, it’s about maintaining the health and workability of the breed.
are shiloh and king shepherds just lines from two different breeders, also a friend told me he has a german shepherd and a czekoslovakian shepherd (which he said tend to be more aggressive and assertive than german shepherd), to me they were indistinguishable to look at, is there really such a dog (czek shepherd)?
I must say that it's extremely unfortunate that people do not actually read what we state on our website and our video but just see what they want. Old fashioned is not synonymous with large, nowhere do we state that, anyone who actually saw the video would see that what was stated that "old fashioned" or "old style" is reminiscent of the dogs from the earlier era with a straight back. However, some of these dogs did tend to have a bigger bone structure.
Shiloh Shepherds are a separate breed, the same with King Shepherds. They are not AKC registered German Shepherds. Some people refer to oversized AKC registered GSDs as "king sized German Shepherds" or "king shepherds" but this is not the same as the separate breed with the same name. You can read more about this at our site at pioneergermanshepherds (dot) com/shilohshepherds (dot) html pioneergermanshepherds (dot) com/kingshepherds (dot) html
The "American" version makes me think of the hunchback of Notre dam. If that's what the show ring wants, then that's between them and the ones who breed show dogs, but personally.. I would take the "Old style" any day, and it seems like a healthier build, but I seriously doubt I'd be showing mine. I want a family member not an accessory, which is what so many seem to treat their dogs as when it comes to show dogs. I'm not saying all are like that, but most of the ones I've met are. :/
I absolutely prefer the straight backs of the old fashioned dogs. It bothers me when breeders will ramble on about "preserving" a breed and yet I can't think of any breed that hasn't continued to change over the decades. The roached and slanted backs that have become the accepted 'norm' for GSDs are sad to see. While I like the looks of your dogs they don't quite seem like the old breed standard to me, they seem bulkier, not just fuzzier.
My German Shepherd "MAX" looks exactly like the old GS... His back is straight and his head is high... I also know two sisters of Max's were show dogs... the "Stance" is what makes them look hunched back.. NOT the breed.. It's the way they are standing that looks strange... look at some of the GS that have won at the AKC shows... then go to their home pages.. when they are not in "show dog" mode they are standing and running around like normal.
Sigrid Halvorssen i think for me, straight-back GSDs are like wolves living in the wild...majestic looking. sloped backs look like they have weak hind legs. check out "extreme breeding".
Sigrid Halvorssen i'm a dog lover and a GSD fan but i really don't like sloped backs. i'm not sure if there are straight backs here in my country...i really love straight backs because they remind me of wolves. i want to have one next year...i hope. :)
Because of the show dog world and people likeing the extreme. I gave up on my beloved GSD breed years ago. I hate what the breeders have done to them. Even the character of some are too extreme. A lot of police depts quit using them and have switched to the Belgian Malinois breed. Which look very much like the old GSD's. They are a physical wonder and what an athalete. (but not for me) I can't even remember the last time I saw a GSD as a seeing eye dog. They are not even suitable for that job any more. And they are riddled with health issues now, due to poor breeding and breeding to the extreme. It breaks my heart. Good to see there are breeders out there trying to bring the breed back to what it once was. When that happens and I find one, I will be getting one. But until then, I will stick with my Australian Shepherds, which have a lot of the same qualities as my beloved GSD's of the past. These GSD's look very good, but still seem to be too large and heavy of a bone structure, for my liking. But they are beautiful and I can see they are the wonderful family dog that they should be.
but you know that there are 3 types of german shepard german blood lines and us bloodlines and working german shepards german and us are for shows and working class is for military and for police work. But you only said in the video about gsd for shows so dont say that people fucked the gsd blood lines becouse they didnt there are gsd for shows and gsd for work
Loved the Old German Sheperds. Those Beauty Shows of today are destroying the breed, because they have biased too much for the Old Standards and judge the dog only for appearance, not working performance. We all here who want to save the breed have to find solutions to the problem. For example, we need to get AKC and other the kennel clubs checkout they standards and use the old standard and old pictures as a model for the breeding programs
Nice to see GSDs that are not malformed. Keep up the good work. Maybe the AKC will get brains again and see this IS the breed standard. Those show dogs can't even walk right, poor things.
im pretty sure a old german shepard isnt the original GSD the people who bred the OGSD had the same idea as the person who created the normal GSD but is different because old gsd was bred soely 4 working abilities but the GSD was bred 4 appearances aswell ,i think anyway
look i am not here to argue, and i am sure you have a great dog there, i like dogs. but the german shephard dog has a standard, and it is max 26inches and around 90pounds. if your dog is 36 inches and 105lbs i can assure it is not a shepherd but a hybrid of some sorts. regards
Oh no, it can be a real GS. Too many - especially Euro - are HEAVY-built. They are huge, big-boned and headed like bears. They are supposed to be light & AGILE, I agree. But there are tons of GS purebred who come from Euro and even American (but they tend to be too thin) lines which have pushed the limit of sizing. (Besides, 105 is not a huge leap from 90.)
Long coats were forbidden in the breed standard up until several years back. These are not working dogs on the show line circuit today! Just beauty pageant participants with all sorts of genetic ailments! How do I know? Been there done that
Does this mean ALL dogs from that time period were large? No, but while I do not make the blanket generalization that all dogs of that time period were oversized, please do not imply that all dogs from that era were in fact "within standard", especially pets, as there were natural variances for a great while within the breed. Finally, I do not believe that Mr. Stephanitz would desire the current American or German show dogs either, so I guess in the end it is all a moot point.
I think you'll find the old type still exists today. They are working european line german shepherds. Which is where i expect your bloodlines are derived.
i refuse to go to dog shows anymore because of what they have done to the GSD in the uk, it breaks my heart to see the dogs having trouble just walking and standing, but worse of all i cant stand the smug look on the stupid owners face looking proud that they are crippling this lovley breed.
@MrKangalci58 Agreed. I've been reading up on German Shepherds (All points of view, so it's gonna be a long read.), and like so many things in America, it seems to me that people are (and have been) changing the dog so that it fits the new "fad", or whatever you want to call it. To each their own, but I'd go for a healthier, happier dog that wouldn't be admitted into the show ring, rather than one that's going to end up in absolute misery sooner rather than later.
That's exactly what I hate about so many breeders today. This isn't supposed to be about what's "in." This isn't a car or von Furstenberg's clothing line. This is a living thing, and it suffers under the senseless whims of people in today's throwaway, plastique mentality. These 40s dogs were healthy. Mature people go with what's right, not with what's HOT! I don't even think the show lines look more beautiful. They look handicapped.
MY DOG look's like a Pioneer dog BUT because we got him from animal control we don't have the papers SO HOW or how can I prove that I have a Pure breed German Shepard because I KNOW FOR A FACT he is about as pure as the Pioneer dog's any help ???
It's ridiculous to breed a dog for a trait that is a danger to it's health, the hip problems in the GSD breed today are getting out of control. According to the AKC the back is SUPPOSED to slant, which is absolute BS if it contributes to any impairment. Kudos to those who keep the "old" style - the sensible style - alive.
@keefer2111 Who says a dog CAN'T be family/child even if it's referred to as a dog, which it.. technically is, since it's obviously not a cat. I lost both my girls in the past year to old age, and am looking into German shepherds, because we have owned them before and they're wonderful dogs, as well as wonderful family members. I think this person just wanted to demonstrate how the "show crowd" has changed the breed in an unhealthy way, or at least that's what I gleaned from this.
The GSDs of today are deformed and look like walking would be painful for them.I have an old-fashioned female,with a straight back and she has no joint problems at all,even at 8 years old.
that's the thing they aren't the "old fashion or old style" its called the Standered. the straight top lines (backs) is what the standered says! i'm not sure of what people are trying to get into these days but theses AREN'T german shepherd... its sad. i have a male that i show and is pretty well exactly what the standered says and i get laughed at by judges because hes "different" when in reality hes the proper. its just disgusting. feel free to check my site out to see my HANDSOME boy, briley
Matt Ruwaldt Unfortunately these are not back yard breeders. These are big time show breeders and they’re basing the look off the AKC standards. Just like every other dog in the AKC, it makes breeders breed for a “look”, not a function. When you breed for a look, you take away the workability of the dog. Labs are another good example.
this breeder is an awful one. roaches do exist, but not in well bred show lines. the “slope” you are seeing is just an illusion with the placement of their paw placement. it’s called a three point stack
@@xAspenn ok. Thanks for explaining. So when a German Shepherd who seems to have a very little slope when posed in the 3 point stack, has actually no slope. He's a straight back and only because of the 3 point stack it gives an illusion of a slope back. Did I get it right ?
@@wanderlust...H there are different degrees of stacks. American showlines are typically put into a much more dramatic 3 point stack to enhance their angulation. all german shepherds have straight backs with some amount of angulation. a 4 point stack will make any line of german shepherd have a level top line but yes, a lot of it is just illusion or gaiting!
why do you americans refer to these dogs as old style? because there blood line isnt old style there english blood line they have disopered alot now but they are english lines technicly not old style
They had long hair GSD's but this is not my concern, The person who posted this has bad quality dogs period. Look at the ears on their dogs ? floppy ? WTF ? And they are huge GSD where not giant dogs. Ironic how one would post video of old fashion dogs when their dogs look nothing like them more like big pet quality GSD's ... I would not want breeding rights let alone buy a dog from them.I had a real old fashion GSD she was only 23.5 at the withers and her structure was perfect!
The American line dogs that you see at the AKC shows today have straight back too. They just have a lot of angulation. The roached back is more common with the german show line dogs, but you don't see these type of dogs at AKC shows. Theyre shown at the sieger dog shows. People get too hung up on stuff they read on the net. These are working dogs and the dogs in this video can work just as well (or as poorly) as the dogs in those dog shows. I'll guarantee none of these dogs have IPO titles.
well my first post didnt show up. These are not "old Style" dogs this size would not be able to do the work the dog was designed for. Herding all day, that means alot of running. These dogs are too big! modern working lines dont have the sloop or rouch backs only the show lines. but these people dont tell you that. and how could a low drive in a working dog be a good thing? I'll tell you...its not
What's the deal with breeding every working breed of any sort to be a big klutz of a dog incapable of doing anything? Yours isn't the only breed. Check out what happened to the Newfoundland dog, and what's happening to golden and Labrador retrievers. The big bearlike Newfs were probably nonexistent on the island of Newfoundland, but were popular as pets in Europe and North America. The big Newfs did exist, but they were 80 to 120 pounds in weight, not 150 pounds or more.
Overall your video is good, however I think like alot of german shepherd people you need to move with the times. Your roach back statement infact is incorrect. Some of your dogs are very nice that you have shown but a couple of them I would not touch with a ten foot barge pole. Good on you for sticking to your guns but I have seen many a beautiful modern day german shepherd. Your living in the past with the dogs you have shown these dogs are now over 50 years of age. Time to get with the times.
130lbs sounds like a fat shepherd to me. it is a common knowledge that shepherds have light bones compared to other breeds. a 45kg (90lbs) is appropriate weight for this dog. i also own dogs from former czechoslowakia which were used by military for border patrol duties and i can not imagine them being any bigger then they are. cheers
A lot of your pioneer dogs have decent backs, but they are much bigger than the ones in the books. I have read that book. Your dogs are TOO thick boned.
The slanted/"roached" backs are nothing but a deformity. Extremely bad dog conformation that is just asking for problems. The best, healthiest German Shepherd Dogs, without question, have straight backs and proportional hind legs. Breeders are stupid to ruin the breed like that.
oneblackhorse totally agree. Gsd are herding dogs that are suppose to protect sheep’s or any lives stock animals which means they should be able to defeat predators and have a really good agility since they are used for protection. I haven’t seen one of the newest gsd perform a jump that is 7feet high over a fence. And oh god how I hate the long haired ones they are useless if you wanna breed a companion dog make your own breed don’t breed it into a working dog
@@nino7895 A short haired dog has no difference to a long haired dog other then the fur. It you like straight backs go to a breeder who breeds straight backs. They don't all breed the slope back. I had 2 beautiful German shepherd dogs who had sloped backs and they we're great. They outlived the 2 straight backs.
Robert A. Lofgren Jr. what I meant is that the original standard didn’t plan on long hair. Long hair is harder to groom and harder for them to do things they were bred to do. You don’t see a sloped back gsd with long hair that can jump really high.
@@nino7895 You can get a long haired straight back as well. There is a wonderful breeder in NH who breeds only longhaired straight back and she has a great reputation.
Robert A. Lofgren Jr. that wasn’t my point you can get a variety of gsd but only some can perform the real reason they were bred. Long haired gsd are mainly used as a family pet and a protector on ground whereas short haired straight back are to be used as herders protecters everywhere and therapy dogs because their fur doesn’t require that much maintenance
This breeder does not breed the type of dogs that von stephanitz envisioned when he created this breed. He never wanted an oversized, low drive, long coat dog. Breeding dogs like this is just as bad as breeding the propaganda pictures used in this video. Though I also don't agree with where the GSD show world is going these days... breeding these oversized or "old fashioned" dogs is just as bad. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black going on here, but whatever sells pups, I guess.
Bring back the straight back!!!! Theres a push now to do so, because it went to far and it looks really uncomfortable for the GSD to be slopped so much. My dad use to tell me of a GSD he had from his father (who was a vet). The dog was a war-dog (German) had heavy bone, square / jowly muzzle - not pointy, and one ear flopped down in half. he had a straight to slight slope.
I have a straight back G-shep pure black boy, and i'm very proud of him
Beautiful straight back.
German Sheperds best dogs in the world .
Congratulation with the making of this superb video clip/documentary...GREAT!
Enhorabuena con la realización de este magnífico videoclip / documental ... GENIAL!
Oooh! Impresionante Mario, que lástima que a lis de hoy día se les vaya la pinza :-(
Excellent video ~
Finally.. something to confirm & demonstrate what I've been saying all along ....
Old Type Sheps are the way to go!
Amazing German shepherds
The old style are the true breed. Americans, always have to change something it seem to their liking. I sometimes wish they leave it alone. You go to Europe and the dogs are so much larger. I like the old style best, because their large, they don't have the annoying hip problem, they haven't been messed with. Old style is my dream dog :)
I love the straightback they are the true gsd great video
I bought my first GSD 9 months ago at 8 wks old. He has no curvature whatsoever. His hind legs are very long and his back is straight across. He is a black and tan named Rocky. I don't know if he is an Old fashioned GSD or not, but he does have papers and is definetley a thouroughbred. He is absolutely the smartest dog I have ever had.
our past and present German Shepherds have all been straight backed ( American Breed )
they were of normal size and Knut our boy that we have now is 28 " at the shoulders and leggy as our other 2 were not - a lot of comments about his size beig compared to a young deer in size - and I keep his weight at 90 lb, he is supersized and our beautiful companion for 7 years - and your German Shepherds are awesome...
My vet said my German Shepherd Dog is "old school" (his words). My GSD "Scout" has the straight back, and is on the lean side at just a wee bit over 80 pounds. When he is around other GSD, you can really see the difference, and Scout is fast, and more agile then the other dogs. It's like Scout was built for herding sheep, more then combat. Thanks for putting up this vid. I now see my dog is a bit of a throw back to the old days.
Mine is also the "old-fashioned", traditional breed, he looks exactly like the 1940's German Male, I love him.
However, on18th Feb he has been stolen and still missing till now, that's a heart-broken moment I ever have.
I miss him
A healthy, normally built german shepherd is amongst the most beautiful you can ever see.
thnx for posting. it was nice seeing the "older" version of this dog. whether old or new the GSD is a wonderful animal.
Loved the GS dogs I remember as a kid. I always thought the newer ones I met were handicapped or something. Good for you.
The original, as near as can tell, was very similar to the four Belgian shepherd types and the Dutch shepherd.
My breed (golden retriever) is also extremely screwed up by the fancy, which now demands an entirely different color from the original type. They also are breeding in the heavily boned dogs that were cursed in the early days of field trials as being too coarse to their work. This was when goldens were part of the flat-coated retriever breed.
Good.
I agree with you 100% Shayla!!! i have a 15 month German Shepherd (Female) who has the straight top line back!!! She is sooo pretty and strong too. Great watchdog for the house!!!
My GSD has the same (or very similar) lines as the 'old' style but yet her lines are from the newer look. Very well put video, it for sure made me think ^_^. I never have liked the newer GSD's I always thought that the way they stood looked painful and forced..
Without critizizing the dogs in the videos, a shiloh shepherd is not an "old fashioned german shepherd". A shiloh shepherd is a mix containing german shepherd.
The founder of the german shepherd, Max vom Stephanitz wrote the breed standard around the 1900's, it has not been changed since then, however it has been misunderstood. Von Stephanitz purpose woth the GSD was to make it the best working dog in the world. Not a familys companion. These dogs are untypical, just as the show GSD is.
If Von Stephanitz should came back to the world of the living in these days....He would attend a dog show and when he is shown the Champions and the judges say to him: "These are pure German Shepperd dogs", I am sure he will respond: "No they are not. And.........by the way......what do you mean by saying they are pure?"
Anyone know the name of this song? I can't find it on dances with wolves soundtrack
I have a German Shepherd who was rescued ,so i do'nt know her blood line.Luckily she does not have a very sloping back,so i presume from what i have seen off the video this is good.I hope!!
@AAAmar I don't know much about King Shepherds but I know that the Shiloh Shepherd was founded by a woman named Tina Barber and that she injected some Alaskan Malamute into the bloodlines of her German Shepherd stock to increase size, straighten the legs and produce a milder temperament. Czechoslovakia has used German Shepherds extensively and they produce sound, rather aggressive working lines, usually wolf-gray in color, but they are still purebred German Shepherds, not "Czech shepherds."
this music made me cry look what you did
yes agreed and american sheps are smalle and longer but german are thick but shorter in lenghth good video
that's the way a german shepard suppose to look like, not those little wimps we now see. my family in south america always owned german shepard and i remember they used to be large and strong dogs!
Your dogs are simply beautiful. I could never understand the reason why the dogs displayed in the dog shows have those awkward slanted hips, when it's supposed to be not only a family loving pet, but a working dog. Simply not the case with your dogs. Keep up the great work. MORE VIDEOS PLEASE.
judofan, German Shepherd show dogs work better with the sloped back. German Shepherds in the 40's and 5o's most of them had the sloped back. There is nothing wrong with a sloped back dog. Idiots think they are in pain, suffering and cruelty to the animal. This is a myth.
great video pioneer are producing what is in my eyes a true to the original standard G.S.D. ! if you know where to look you can still get old fashioned G.S.D.'s in britain !
i wanna have GSDs like in 4:01, 4:11, and 4:25...hehe. :)
good job for keeping the traditional look of the breed. i really want to have one of those. :)
Thanks for doing this! Amazing dogs! Here in Hungary there are alot of GSD`s that are more straight and bigger than the "normal" american lines. They have a more straight back, taller, and a really nice temper. When I finish my M.D. here i will bring one home to Norway. =D
Also, as stated in the video, "While not reaching the usual size of dogs bred today by Pioneer German Shepherds...", there were show winners in the late 50s/early 60s that did range from 95-100+ pounds that can be verified through the GSDCA website. Those are not small dogs, and a book referenced from the 1940s states that the average public DID prefer a dog that exceeded the standard size of 22-26 inches.
I had found a stray and turns out to be an Old Style German Shepard. He took kindly to our cat and will always walk by my side if someone strange comes by. My question is why would any one would want to let this beautiful animal go?
Anyone know how this line of gsd are for protection? I'm looking for a protective gsd and do not want him to be sweet tempered to strangers.. thanks
@JackKangaroo1 "Czechoslovakia has used German Shepherds extensively and they produce sound, rather aggressive working lines, usually wolf-gray in color"
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i think you're thinking of the "Czechoslovakian wolfhound" which are a managed wolfish breed
.
Im sorry you had a bad experience but not everyone in show treats their GSD like that. My dog and her family have wonderful lives. I have never seen a dog so happy before and she loves the shows.
at 1:50 thats exactly how my female german shepherd looks she is very beautiful
I grew up with the German Shepherd and so did my parents. But now I find the rounded back or sloped hind end types. I want one of the "old style" German Shepherds, it's too bad they are so expensive.(I' a single mom). I find the hunch backed type for a much better price, but won't buy one. I remember that book, it was very specific about the angle of the back not being very curved and the hind quarters not being too angular. It's too bad the "old" ones are out of the general family's budget.
Anytime a dog is bred for a certain look, it takes away from the function. AKC is the worst about this, and what they’ve created in the American GSD, is criminal. Even the West show lines are nonfunctional. The GSD is a working dog and cannot work when it walks on its hocks. I’ve had Shepherds for 20+ years, like a lot of us, and by far the most functional, healthy, and beautiful shepherds are the DDR, and Czech lines. It’s not about beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder, it’s about maintaining the health and workability of the breed.
are shiloh and king shepherds just lines from two different breeders, also a friend told me he has a german shepherd and a czekoslovakian shepherd (which he said tend to be more aggressive and assertive than german shepherd), to me they were indistinguishable to look at, is there really such a dog (czek shepherd)?
I must say that it's extremely unfortunate that people do not actually read what we state on our website and our video but just see what they want. Old fashioned is not synonymous with large, nowhere do we state that, anyone who actually saw the video would see that what was stated that "old fashioned" or "old style" is reminiscent of the dogs from the earlier era with a straight back. However, some of these dogs did tend to have a bigger bone structure.
Shiloh Shepherds are a separate breed, the same with King Shepherds. They are not AKC registered German Shepherds. Some people refer to oversized AKC registered GSDs as "king sized German Shepherds" or "king shepherds" but this is not the same as the separate breed with the same name. You can read more about this at our site at
pioneergermanshepherds (dot) com/shilohshepherds (dot) html
pioneergermanshepherds (dot) com/kingshepherds (dot) html
The "American" version makes me think of the hunchback of Notre dam. If that's what the show ring wants, then that's between them and the ones who breed show dogs, but personally.. I would take the "Old style" any day, and it seems like a healthier build, but I seriously doubt I'd be showing mine. I want a family member not an accessory, which is what so many seem to treat their dogs as when it comes to show dogs. I'm not saying all are like that, but most of the ones I've met are. :/
I absolutely prefer the straight backs of the old fashioned dogs. It bothers me when breeders will ramble on about "preserving" a breed and yet I can't think of any breed that hasn't continued to change over the decades. The roached and slanted backs that have become the accepted 'norm' for GSDs are sad to see.
While I like the looks of your dogs they don't quite seem like the old breed standard to me, they seem bulkier, not just fuzzier.
My German Shepherd "MAX" looks exactly like the old GS... His back is straight and his head is high... I also know two sisters of Max's were show dogs... the "Stance" is what makes them look hunched back.. NOT the breed.. It's the way they are standing that looks strange... look at some of the GS that have won at the AKC shows... then go to their home pages.. when they are not in "show dog" mode they are standing and running around like normal.
My family has old-style straight backs. Healthy, fit and strong. These sloped backs look awful.
Sigrid Halvorssen i think for me, straight-back GSDs are like wolves living in the wild...majestic looking. sloped backs look like they have weak hind legs. check out "extreme breeding".
jose fernando freeze I know! It's shocking what they've done. They look like they're cowering or something.
Sigrid Halvorssen i'm a dog lover and a GSD fan but i really don't like sloped backs. i'm not sure if there are straight backs here in my country...i really love straight backs because they remind me of wolves. i want to have one next year...i hope. :)
I that the 'straight back' looks superior - not sure why the change?
Because of the show dog world and people likeing the extreme. I gave up on my beloved GSD breed years ago. I hate what the breeders have done to them. Even the character of some are too extreme. A lot of police depts quit using them and have switched to the Belgian Malinois breed. Which look very much like the old GSD's. They are a physical wonder and what an athalete. (but not for me) I can't even remember the last time I saw a GSD as a seeing eye dog. They are not even suitable for that job any more. And they are riddled with health issues now, due to poor breeding and breeding to the extreme. It breaks my heart. Good to see there are breeders out there trying to bring the breed back to what it once was. When that happens and I find one, I will be getting one. But until then, I will stick with my Australian Shepherds, which have a lot of the same qualities as my beloved GSD's of the past. These GSD's look very good, but still seem to be too large and heavy of a bone structure, for my liking. But they are beautiful and I can see they are the wonderful family dog that they should be.
but you know that there are 3 types of german shepard german blood lines and us bloodlines and working german shepards german and us are for shows and working class is for military and for police work. But you only said in the video about gsd for shows so dont say that people fucked the gsd blood lines becouse they didnt there are gsd for shows and gsd for work
Loved the Old German Sheperds. Those Beauty Shows of today are destroying the breed, because they have biased too much for the Old Standards and judge the dog only for appearance, not working performance. We all here who want to save the breed have to find solutions to the problem. For example, we need to get AKC and other the kennel clubs checkout they standards and use the old standard and old pictures as a model for the breeding programs
beautiful dogs. My next GSD will be adopted from Germany as I do not believe in purchasing any dogs. Too many throwaway dogs and throwaway children.
Nice to see GSDs that are not malformed. Keep up the good work. Maybe the AKC will get brains again and see this IS the breed standard. Those show dogs can't even walk right, poor things.
im pretty sure a old german shepard isnt the original GSD the people who bred the OGSD had the same idea as the person who created the normal GSD but is different because old gsd was bred soely 4 working abilities but the GSD was bred 4 appearances aswell ,i think anyway
look i am not here to argue, and i am sure you have a great dog there, i like dogs. but the german shephard dog has a standard, and it is max 26inches and around 90pounds. if your dog is 36 inches and 105lbs i can assure it is not a shepherd but a hybrid of some sorts. regards
wooT! + 1 for u
Oh no, it can be a real GS. Too many - especially Euro - are HEAVY-built. They are huge, big-boned and headed like bears. They are supposed to be light & AGILE, I agree. But there are tons of GS purebred who come from Euro and even American (but they tend to be too thin) lines which have pushed the limit of sizing. (Besides, 105 is not a huge leap from 90.)
Long coats were forbidden in the breed standard up until several years back. These are not working dogs on the show line circuit today! Just beauty pageant participants with all sorts of genetic ailments! How do I know? Been there done that
Does this mean ALL dogs from that time period were large? No, but while I do not make the blanket generalization that all dogs of that time period were oversized, please do not imply that all dogs from that era were in fact "within standard", especially pets, as there were natural variances for a great while within the breed. Finally, I do not believe that Mr. Stephanitz would desire the current American or German show dogs either, so I guess in the end it is all a moot point.
I think you'll find the old type still exists today. They are working european line german shepherds.
Which is where i expect your bloodlines are derived.
i refuse to go to dog shows anymore because of what they have done to the GSD in the uk, it breaks my heart to see the dogs having trouble just walking and standing, but worse of all i cant stand the smug look on the stupid owners face looking proud that they are crippling this lovley breed.
Indeed =(
@MrKangalci58 Agreed. I've been reading up on German Shepherds (All points of view, so it's gonna be a long read.), and like so many things in America, it seems to me that people are (and have been) changing the dog so that it fits the new "fad", or whatever you want to call it. To each their own, but I'd go for a healthier, happier dog that wouldn't be admitted into the show ring, rather than one that's going to end up in absolute misery sooner rather than later.
2:59 who hates how some punks abuse the word bitch?
well anyway thanks longcoat for using its true purpose.
That's exactly what I hate about so many breeders today. This isn't supposed to be about what's "in." This isn't a car or von Furstenberg's clothing line. This is a living thing, and it suffers under the senseless whims of people in today's throwaway, plastique mentality. These 40s dogs were healthy. Mature people go with what's right, not with what's HOT!
I don't even think the show lines look more beautiful. They look handicapped.
MY DOG look's like a Pioneer dog BUT because we got him from animal control we don't have the papers SO HOW or how can I prove that I have a Pure breed German Shepard because I KNOW FOR A FACT he is about as pure as the Pioneer dog's any help ???
It's ridiculous to breed a dog for a trait that is a danger to it's health, the hip problems in the GSD breed today are getting out of control. According to the AKC the back is SUPPOSED to slant, which is absolute BS if it contributes to any impairment. Kudos to those who keep the "old" style - the sensible style - alive.
I want old fashioned 😥 roached backs have more health issues and im surprised they can jump and some are hock walkers 😰
@keefer2111 Who says a dog CAN'T be family/child even if it's referred to as a dog, which it.. technically is, since it's obviously not a cat. I lost both my girls in the past year to old age, and am looking into German shepherds, because we have owned them before and they're wonderful dogs, as well as wonderful family members. I think this person just wanted to demonstrate how the "show crowd" has changed the breed in an unhealthy way, or at least that's what I gleaned from this.
The GSDs of today are deformed and look like walking would be painful for them.I have an old-fashioned female,with a straight back and she has no joint problems at all,even at 8 years old.
that's the thing they aren't the "old fashion or old style" its called the Standered. the straight top lines (backs) is what the standered says! i'm not sure of what people are trying to get into these days but theses AREN'T german shepherd... its sad. i have a male that i show and is pretty well exactly what the standered says and i get laughed at by judges because hes "different" when in reality hes the proper. its just disgusting. feel free to check my site out to see my HANDSOME boy, briley
What backyard breeders do to this beautiful breed today is a crime and should be illigal!!
Matt Ruwaldt
Unfortunately these are not back yard breeders. These are big time show breeders and they’re basing the look off the AKC standards. Just like every other dog in the AKC, it makes breeders breed for a “look”, not a function. When you breed for a look, you take away the workability of the dog. Labs are another good example.
I really don't understand why breeders are spoiling the breed by breeding roached back gsd.
Do you ship your puppies to Mumbai India ?
this breeder is an awful one. roaches do exist, but not in well bred show lines. the “slope” you are seeing is just an illusion with the placement of their paw placement. it’s called a three point stack
@@xAspenn ok. Thanks for explaining.
So when a German Shepherd who seems to have a very little slope when posed in the 3 point stack, has actually no slope. He's a straight back and only because of the 3 point stack it gives an illusion of a slope back. Did I get it right ?
@@wanderlust...H there are different degrees of stacks. American showlines are typically put into a much more dramatic 3 point stack to enhance their angulation. all german shepherds have straight backs with some amount of angulation. a 4 point stack will make any line of german shepherd have a level top line
but yes, a lot of it is just illusion or gaiting!
@@xAspenn 3 point thingie is good for me and my four legged friends 👍 thanks for replying 👍
i have 2 old fashiond gs girls, big boned and straight backed , thats how a gsd should be, strong bold, not a slopping back weakling .
why do you americans refer to these dogs as old style? because there blood line isnt old style there english blood line they have disopered alot now but they are english lines technicly not old style
They had long hair GSD's but this is not my concern, The person who posted this has bad quality dogs period. Look at the ears on their dogs ? floppy ? WTF ? And they are huge GSD where not giant dogs. Ironic how one would post video of old fashion dogs when their dogs look nothing like them more like big pet quality GSD's ... I would not want breeding rights let alone buy a dog from them.I had a real old fashion GSD she was only 23.5 at the withers and her structure was perfect!
The American line dogs that you see at the AKC shows today have straight back too. They just have a lot of angulation. The roached back is more common with the german show line dogs, but you don't see these type of dogs at AKC shows. Theyre shown at the sieger dog shows.
People get too hung up on stuff they read on the net. These are working dogs and the dogs in this video can work just as well (or as poorly) as the dogs in those dog shows. I'll guarantee none of these dogs have IPO titles.
well my first post didnt show up. These are not "old Style" dogs this size would not be able to do the work the dog was designed for. Herding all day, that means alot of running. These dogs are too big! modern working lines dont have the sloop or rouch backs only the show lines. but these people dont tell you that. and how could a low drive in a working dog be a good thing? I'll tell you...its not
It is all show's fault.even in 20's u see sloping show stance. Worse n worse by decade.
Far bettet than today's crippled looking GSD....thats why i prefer golden retriever.
What's the deal with breeding every working breed of any sort to be a big klutz of a dog incapable of doing anything? Yours isn't the only breed. Check out what happened to the Newfoundland dog, and what's happening to golden and Labrador retrievers. The big bearlike Newfs were probably nonexistent on the island of Newfoundland, but were popular as pets in Europe and North America. The big Newfs did exist, but they were 80 to 120 pounds in weight, not 150 pounds or more.
Overall your video is good, however I think like alot of german shepherd people you need to move with the times. Your roach back statement infact is incorrect. Some of your dogs are very nice that you have shown but a couple of them I would not touch with a ten foot barge pole. Good on you for sticking to your guns but I have seen many a beautiful modern day german shepherd. Your living in the past with the dogs you have shown these dogs are now over 50 years of age. Time to get with the times.
The America dogs should be called American shepherds; not German shepherds.
these are GSDs cross bred with Akita's and Malamutes. there Hybred
130lbs sounds like a fat shepherd to me. it is a common knowledge that shepherds have light bones compared to other breeds. a 45kg (90lbs) is appropriate weight for this dog. i also own dogs from former czechoslowakia which were used by military for border patrol duties and i can not imagine them being any bigger then they are. cheers
A lot of your pioneer dogs have decent backs, but they are much bigger than the ones in the books. I have read that book. Your dogs are TOO thick boned.
Was waren sie eine Augen weide u jetzt Frösche Bitte kauft so etwas nicht nur mit Graden Rücken dem schäferhund zur Liebe DANKe
Too bad they tend to be so huge and cloddy. That's not good either.
disgusting , crippling a dog for what a ribbon, classy people really classy
The slanted/"roached" backs are nothing but a deformity. Extremely bad dog conformation that is just asking for problems. The best, healthiest German Shepherd Dogs, without question, have straight backs and proportional hind legs. Breeders are stupid to ruin the breed like that.
oneblackhorse totally agree. Gsd are herding dogs that are suppose to protect sheep’s or any lives stock animals which means they should be able to defeat predators and have a really good agility since they are used for protection. I haven’t seen one of the newest gsd perform a jump that is 7feet high over a fence. And oh god how I hate the long haired ones they are useless if you wanna breed a companion dog make your own breed don’t breed it into a working dog
@@nino7895 A short haired dog has no difference to a long haired dog other then the fur. It you like straight backs go to a breeder who breeds straight backs. They don't all breed the slope back. I had 2 beautiful German shepherd dogs who had sloped backs and they we're great. They outlived the 2 straight backs.
Robert A. Lofgren Jr. what I meant is that the original standard didn’t plan on long hair. Long hair is harder to groom and harder for them to do things they were bred to do. You don’t see a sloped back gsd with long hair that can jump really high.
@@nino7895 You can get a long haired straight back as well. There is a wonderful breeder in NH who breeds only longhaired straight back and she has a great reputation.
Robert A. Lofgren Jr. that wasn’t my point you can get a variety of gsd but only some can perform the real reason they were bred. Long haired gsd are mainly used as a family pet and a protector on ground whereas short haired straight back are to be used as herders protecters everywhere and therapy dogs because their fur doesn’t require that much maintenance
This breeder does not breed the type of dogs that von stephanitz envisioned when he created this breed. He never wanted an oversized, low drive, long coat dog. Breeding dogs like this is just as bad as breeding the propaganda pictures used in this video. Though I also don't agree with where the GSD show world is going these days... breeding these oversized or "old fashioned" dogs is just as bad. A bit of the pot calling the kettle black going on here, but whatever sells pups, I guess.