Toilet Paper Makes THE BEST Black Powder?
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- Опубликовано: 7 дек 2023
- What’s the best carbon source for powerful Black powder? The answer might surprise you…
All of the black powder test are done using my 45 caliber Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle, using 50gr, .440 round ball, .020 pillow ticking patch and each shot is primed with the same powder it’s charged with.
This is why I asked you to try pure cellulose from a pulp mill. The chemicals they add to the pulp are just to purge impurities to get as close to pure cellulose as possible. Toilet paper has very little in the way of glues etc. added to it. I think if you get pure pulp sheets before anything else has been done to it you will get less residue and should have the same or better speed. Pulp from pulp mills is what they make modern day nitrocellulose out of.
That seems sensible. How cost effectively could you source such pulp from a manufacturer compared to stockpiling TP?
Do you think a cheaper and 'rougher' TP would work better?
This is pure Pulp Fiction :)
From using coffee filters to tp keep on your toes an never let anyone know your next move
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine It really depends on your location for how easy pulp is to source. The pacific north west and states like Minnesota have loads of pulp mills. Because raw pulp is usually a product for other industries it tends to come in bulk amounts that would be less than useful unless you were going to make a lifetime supply of powder in one go or something. If there is a pulp mill nearby to him I would contact them directly and see what you could get for research purposes. If they think it would later turn into a more industrial process if your research pans out it would be in their best interest to get you good samples. If you could find a mill that already supplies nitrocellulose makers instead of the paper industry that would be even better as their product is already tailored for the type of use a back powder maker would want. Next best would be a pulp mill that supplies the TP industry and get some of their pulp before it is processed into TP.
Suck free vid as usual👍 We buy the giant TP bricks from Costco, so I'm set. 😆
That is just great. Toilet paper is ALREADY the first thing to get scarce in a situation. Now you found a reason for the preppers to buy ALL of it. Thanks a lot.
Hah! Well struck.
Are you actually mad? Lmao
Comedic ironic gold
Siempre nos quedará 🖕😁
When the plandemic started, I remembered "Crocodile Dundee" and bought a bidet for each of our three toilets. But now I will buy TP again, for other purposes.
From an engineering perspective, this makes sense because toilet paper is about as close to pure cellulose as you're going to get for an unburned carbon source, meaning that practically every single non-Carbon atom will be either Oxygen or Hydrogen, and nothing else in any significant quantity. It's also extremely fine, making for maximal mixing and contact with the Sulfur and Potassium Nitrate components.
Seems reasonable
I just thought exaclty the same ! So, you must be right !
@@Everythingblackpowderwat about the puup on it💩💩💩🙊🙉🙈🙈🙉🙊😳
It works so well because the paper is so finely processed, from extremely fine fibers. When you carbonize a tight roll of such a material, you create a carbon that is almost entirely air inside, like a charcoal version of aerogel. Grinding this up creates extremely fine particles, allowing for extremely well mixed black powder. That's why you're burning so hot and clean. Your carbon particles are WAY tinier than the would usually be, so your mix is much more well-blended
I like the aerogel comparison! That’s essentially what it is. 👍
Well said , I need to try this method.
If its too fine could it make the combustion dangerous to the user?
Sorry to sound thick but what do you add to the mix for black powder.
@@ewanburnett3956 Potassium nitrate and sulfur. The recipe described (77%, 13%, 10%) in order always is charcoal first, then potassium nitrate, then sulfur last because black powder requires only a small amount of it to work.
I believe that the wood fibers being ground into such a fine and consistent pulp form prior to being pressed into the paper is the reason. I believe the uniformity and consistency of the ultra fine fibers is the key
Seems reasonable
How much could one 'distill' the charcoal? How pure, how fine grain? Wood pulp seems a promising candidate, but there's probably a lot of variables.
Is anyone producing balsa pulp?
That’s what I was thinking. The incredibly thin nature of the TP also means the charcoal would be incredibly fine, which would aid it in burning, much like how the dust in flour mills can become explosive, the ultra fine nature of the charcoal from the paper gives more surface area to grain volume, so it should burn better, is my guess.
I think that the main reason is that all lignin is removed from wood during the paper manufacturing process
Yeah, there is various pulps. Cottenelle might contain some cotton in addition to wood pulp. @@0neDoomedSpaceMarine
Wow. Who knew a household item could make such high velocitys. I'm into pyrotechnics and I've been searching for a good carbon source for years. This is a great breakthrough in the blackpowder community. Thank you!
Happy to help
This is great news for pyros. I don't have to worry about soot for my lift charges just the power. Now I don't have to order eastern red cedar charcoal.
Ill be trying this out soon.
Good gravy, another reason to horde toilet paper. 😂😂😂😮
If you making BP as well. Give us your opinion here also. Thnx
I worked at Scott’s paper in mobile and we always used pine pulp as like most all other mills. It’s the number of pours that in the paper compared to just wood coal. It soaks up more of the potassium nitrate compared to wood coal. Here’s something that will surprise you. Me and another friend found this out back in 1978 when we were testing different types of wood for our muzzle loaders and for our fireworks. We found out by sending up a three inch round shell and it exploded like we had put flash powder in it but no just old plain toilet paper black powder. I also am getting 1800 fps in my Thompson and in my Kentucky long rifle which I get about 30 more fps with my Kentucky. We’ve used toilet paper since. We bought cases of toilet paper that was going back to the vat to be recycled because of a flaw in the paper. But when you cook the paper it burns off any acids and bleach that is put into the pulp and then the bleaching tanks. So it’s pure old pine.
Question?
Wow you work at the Michael Scott Paper Company? That's crazy man
It is extremely uniform and pure, so when you cook it you get an extremely uniform charcoal. Most of the chemicals in modern toilet paper are removed. When I make black powder I use the cheap TP used in Porta-shitters and such. You can get it in huge rolls and it makes an extremely fine charcoal powder. It works very well for black powder. 45-70 loads
I love how when testing something as ridiculous as toilet paper powder you take it completely seriously and the results show, great video
I didn’t take this too seriously
@WillardMcBain of course but you took it seriously enough to properly make this comedic powder and got some great results and footage
Very true
@@Everythingblackpowder seriously enought to be consistent with everything else.
I used to work for a paper manufacturer, we made copy paper at our plant, toilet paper next door. TP is made from pulpwood, so it's going to be either mostly hardwoods like Aspen, birch or Maple, or where I live pine and spruce. Where I live its red pine specifically. But TP on occasion can be made from sugarcane or bamboo depending on where it comes from. I would wonder if you switched brands if that would change how effective it is if the materials use change to make the TP. TP is also made from shorter fibers than copy paper and writing paper so it can break down better in septic tanks. Not sure if that makes some difference but maybe it helps get a cleaner burn and produce a more refined charcoal. I can tell you even with the bleached paper and all the chemicals in it, one of the biggest risks we had working in a paper plant was the occasional fire because the stuff would spontaneously combust under the paper machines. They're constantly wet but still the stuff if it builds up at all can go "poof" really easily. It was so quick that we had our own fire crews among the trained guys who work in the machine room in case it does happen, and we usually had a fire break out at least once a year but the guys would knock it down fast. So bleached with the chemicals didn't slow the paper down at all if it caught fire.
Thank you for the info! We’re going to try a few other brands and see what we get
@@Everythingblackpowder Try Scott 1-ply stuff and see how it goes. It's not as fluffed up or embossed with loft, but that may not matter.
@@Everythingblackpowder Perhaps try at least one of the super cheap brands just to see if quality matters. Great content by the way!
I worked in the largest paper mill complex in the US, one of the old Scott plants and was there for the KC "merger" aka sell out.
Loblolly and slash pines was the bulk of our pulp mill, with some hardwoods for the SD Warren mill beside us that made craft and office paper.
Pine is a very pitchy wood, and even with the green and brown liquor squeezed out of it, is pretty easy to light up. We had some spontaneous fires in the massive pulp piles.
Wetlap bales is the product that exists before being repulped into the process to make towels, TP and other paper.
I doubt an individual can buy that cheaper than budget TP for a cellulose source to char...for personal use.
Cottonelle is a Southeast Timberlands heritage productline so likely still pine.
One of the goals in making toilet paper is to have it break down quickly and easily in septic systems. This equates to more volatility.
Nice test. I've always used 75 15 10 for fireworks. Are you using 77 13 10 because it's cleaner burning?
Yes and a little bit more powerful
I also make 75 15 10 for fireworks and this year I try add some aluminium flashpowder - 5 potasium nitrate; 3 aluminium powder; 2 sulphur into classic black powder and it work good. With increasing ratio of flashpowder it make bigger boom but in gun it will be probably dangerous
@@matejgigel5494 I'd love to see the chamber pressures on various black+flash powder loads. I've also heard *STERN* warnings on not putting *ANY* _smokeless_ powder into a *_black_* powder gun. Fair enough, but I would like to see it *SAFELY* simulated to measure chamber pressures. (Even with a small amount of homebrew guncotton.)
Not that much cleaner. I told him I worked at scotch paper for years and back in 78 my friend and I tried this paper and we’ve used it in our rifles and in the fireworks we make. 75/15/10 is all we ever make unless I’m making pulvron bp.
Don’t put any flash powder in a gun barrel. Not even a little because it explodes out in all directions and you really don’t want to be behind a firearm when it goes off. Ask my cannon barrel that exploded half into from adding a couple grams to 30 grams of bp mix.
to get rid of the salts and sugars in the wood, black powder manufacturers in the past aged the wood chips outdoors for 2-3 years. I suggest soaking the toilet paper and rinsing it in distilled water, then drying the paper mass and making charcoal for black powder from it. maybe black powder would be cleaner to shoot
It does not surprise me one bit, as toilet paper is very refined wood cellulose.
The entire roll of toilet paper is consistent in texture and quality, and it has to be,
considering where it is used, and any splinters are a danger!
You would get the best char from unscented and white only paper, where there isn't any ink or chemicals to work around.
As with your cork experiment, the cork you used was ground and glued together chunks of cork, and the amount of cork
to adhesives was at a ratio that made for a poor quality char, where it is just the opposite with toilet paper.
When the wood is processed at the pulp mill the lignin is stripped from the wood. Lignin is basically the "glue" that holds the wood fibers together. Don't know if that would make a difference but all the other woods you have used would probably still have the lignin in them.
That's true. When making slow match for matchlocks, the preparation process involves various methods for removing the lignin. You might well be on to something as part of the reason.
I came here to say the exact same thing. I agree wholeheartedly.
Another reason to like this channel: experimentation, info sharing, and humor. These results are very interesting. All this time I have been raiding my woodlot for random samplings of woody flora and neglected my bathroom cabinet! I am impressed you got enough charcoal from a roll to make a batch of powder. Anyone have results from regular paper from a paper shredder? I like to use what others throw away, but think I'll stop at used TP. Keep exploring!
I think the TP worked best in your process because it was much more easily reduced to an extremely small particle size than the wood charcoals you've tried. If you took your willow charcoal and milled it by itself for 24 hours with the brass balls and then milled your batch of BP with the pre-milled charcoal it would be very fast powder. Also, the carbonization temperature (when using wood) is very important to the speed of the BP made from that charcoal. Swiss powder charcoal is carbonized at carefully controlled temperatures. In my opinion, your toilet paper wins because it beat out the other contestants on particle size alone. The power in BP charcoals comes from the remaining volatiles that are not flashed off in the carbonization process. The fastest BP charcoals have only 70-80% carbon. My knowledge of black powder comes from making fireworks, and I know nothing about guns.
My information was meant to add to yours, not to be at odds with it. Your video was very informative and entertaining. I love how you demonstrated the density check. I'll certainly be watching more of your videos. I'm sure I'll learn more from them :)
Nice explanation. 👍
Try even smaller/faster powder ignition by trying those paper thin 1000 sheet rolls!
Even less fluff size!
Sub'd to see more trials.
Paper mills do use chemicals to isolate the cellulose fibers in wood, but they wash all of those chemicals out before the pulp moves to the papermaking process. Printer paper, newsprint, etc all have additives (such as clay) to give a desired surface finish, but your soft Cottonelle is probably about as close to pure, clean cellulose fibers as you're likely to get from a trip to any store. The mill has already taken care of removing anything you might not want in your charcoal, so while it seems strange (Toilet paper, amirite?) if you think about what it is, and not its intended use, it makes perfect sense.
Totally agree, and when he said he was using solvents to try washing his material, I noticed that none of what he presented was acids, like bleaching agents, which I believe that the TP factories use, I think acids would more effectively dissolve away foreign materials that arn’t cellulose, what do you think?
Aslong as theres no lotion in the TP its pure cellulose
@@CowboybubPercussion
Additionally, charcoal is used to capture odors and poisons because it has millions of microscopic pores which capture and hold anything. There's no getting all the chemicals out AFTER it's charcoal.
If he boiled and cleaned the source material BEFORE charring it, he may have gotten different results.
We shit in clean water and wipe our asses with finely machined and purified plant carcasses.
@@senseisecurityschool9337 I concur, it’s not so much about cleaning the charcoal, it’s about having a clean carbon source to char.
You could try cotton pads since they’re pure cellulose. More expensive but should burn REALLY clean.
The ligaments are removed during the papermaking process that’s the glue binder in the wood that holds it together as a tree. This is done in the digester with heat and lime. Leaving the long fibers.
Toilet paper comprises of both hardwood and softwood. Hardwood is used for softness, softwood for strength. Luxury brands are most likely to use virgin fibre in their pulping process (the white pressed sheets) and not recycled. The ratio of softwood to hardwood is 5/8 softwood and 3/8 hardwood in each single ply sheet of paper. The softwood undergoes refining to internally fibrilate the individual fibres, that makes each fibre form branches around it so that they bind together strongly.
I have a book on appilation gun makers. The book mentions the use of the pith inside dried cornstalks when making charcoal. The claim was that it was the cleanest burning black powder. It is the styrofoam like stuff inside the stalk that they used. Might want to try it.
When paper pulp is made the wood is boiled to leave just the cellulose behind. It is a brown muck. It then gets bleached. If you could get the brown muck before it is made into paper, and charcoal that it might be clean and fast.
I bet
Please be careful about telling someone to collect the "brown muck" when speaking of toilet paper...😁
I've been using Ipe (Brazilian hardwood) for years in woodworking, and started saving my sawdust to make black powder with. Its a very dense hard wood, and works pretty well. Im not sure how, or if, it would compete with yours, but it may be worth trying.
Have you tried making your own Pyrodex?
I did it at home, but I didn't use a ball mill, which I don't have.
I used the simplest recipe: 75% potassium nitrate, 10% sulfur and 15% sodium benzoate.
I made it hot, just like I make boiled black powder.
1. Boil half a liter of water in a pot.
2. Then add 750 grams of potassium nitrate, which dissolves perfectly in water and does not need to be ground.
3. Then I add 100 grams of sulfur and mix the solution.
4. Finally, I add 150 grams sodium benzoate.
5. I turn on the gas burner and start slowly cooking the whole thing, stirring all the time so as not to bring it to a boil. In the meantime, isopropyl alcohol is cooling in the freezer.
6. After about 15 minutes of cooking, I take the pot off the burner and set it aside for 10 minutes to cool down a bit. After this time, I pour a quarter of a liter of very cold isopropyl alcohol into the pot, or a little more, and rapidly cool the solution, which begins to boil and reacts with the cold alcohol.
The operation is aimed at better binding of the saltpeter particles with sulfur and sodium benzoate.
At the same time, isopropyl alcohol perfectly binds water, which evaporates better.
The solution begins to thicken quickly.
7. Here comes the only technical problem.
When it all sets, you can form a ball, which, when it dries, can be rubbed on a sieve to obtain the appropriate granulation. The problem is that the whole thing turns into a thick and very sticky green goo. You can't put it through a sieve because everything immediately gets stuck and won't get through to the other side.
Therefore, a better idea is to roll out this green "dough" into a cake 1-2 centimeters thick and leave it in a warm place for a few days to dry.
8. After drying, we obtain a white substance with a slightly yellowish color and considerable hardness. After breaking it into smaller pieces, I crushed it in a brass mortar, then poured it into a steel sieve and rubbed it.
It's going hard because the pieces are hard. Certainly the best way is to grind it roughly in a ball mill, but not for too long, because it is only about giving the right gradation of the powder. Everything has already set while hot, so there is no need to grind it into dust again.
I mention this because, as we know, the inventor of Pyrodex died in his factory during an explosion in a ball mill.
With the Pyrodex I made, I only shot the Remington 1858 revolver from Uberti and I must say that the powder prepared in this way was much stronger than any black powder I had tried to make.
I recommend trying it.
The next challenge I want to take on is making "vitamin" powder based on vitamin C
That’s really interesting. I’ve never looked into making any substitutes.
Try that John Wayne single ply. Doesnt take $@#t off anyone. I cant believe they do much in the way of treating it. I have even seen it brown from lack of dye. Great video. Thank you
Just a guess but a very high percentage of the "hard" particles have been chemically removed thus leaving a very high percentage of pure cellulose. I would speculate that it doesn't matter what king of wood is used (although I'm sure they have their own specs) if it is processed down to that level then any type of wood would work. In our primitive ways of reducing (charring) the wood there are a LOT of particulates that we just cannot remove unlike the chemical processing of the fine folks that make it easier on our backsides than using corn cobs.
Thats an idea!!!! use CORN COBS!!!!!!!!!😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮🤐🤐😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ( dont forget to " CORN " your powder tho!!!!) 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Wow , I wonder how that marshmallow inner core of a corncob would work as a carbon source ?
@@kellyseeman741 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂!!!!
Just read your coment ( a 3rd time!!) I wonder how COTTON would work for charcoal, THAT is pure cellulose!! ( worth a TRY!!)
Although the inner part of the corn cob would work the easier part of the corn to use would be the actual stalk so this is worth a try as it is plentiful to most, even in the big cities it's only a few minutes drive into the country and if cut green would be easy to peel and the core would dry quickly. Hmmmm Might have to go for a drive this summer.
I hear your excitement. Congrats!! I failed chemistry, would love a laymans explaination as well. Family have old powder rifels and it would be great to share info.
Thanks and stay on top.
I never thought of TP but I will try it. I know that will make it a whole lot easier getting better quality carbon/charcoal. Thanks Keep up the good work.
I'm impressed with your work, that's a notable increase in velocity. I have been working with homemade version of Blue MZ and getting 920-950 fps with 30 gr and conicals out of a 8" 1858 Remington. Your TP powder is worthy of further development, performance on par with prismatic BP where the charcoal is brown, cocoa color and a bit undercharred. To outperform Goex with TP, you earned my subscription Sir
Very interesting video. I reload smokeless powder and have been interested in branching off to black powder since you can make your own black powder much easier than smokeless powder. I subscribed to your channel and will binge watch some videos to see what I can learn. I never realized the source of charcoal making material could make a noticeable difference. Phil
Well I'm definitely putting notifications on in hopes of you trying the pure cellulose and manure. Those sound very interesting and I'd love to see how they stack up against the TP.
dude this is brilliant. i wanted to suggest using bone as your carbon source. Im a blacksmith and historically one of the way you could make steel was by carbonizing iron.
And one of the sources of carbon I've seen used was bone, Ive heard they used it cuz it was a really pure carbon source. dont know if that would work with blackpowder.
Hope this helps!
Bones will only give around 10% carbon. The rest is basically a 50:50 mix of calcium and phosphorous oxides which will cause severe fouling unless they are removed by acid washing.
When a youth growing up in N Wisc we cut and peeled aspen to sell as pulpwood to companies like P&G who had a mill in Green Bay that made Charming TP. Aspen is extremely fast growing wood with long fibers. Would be interesting to compare the wood charcoal to the tP. The biggest difference being that the wood has the lignin and the TP is heavily bleached and the wood has passed through the pulp digester to break down the lignin to get the wood fibers broken down for the paper making process. Extremely interesting video with potentially game changing results!
I meant to say Charmin. It would be real interesting to see the velocity with TP BP in the Plowboy loads!
I'm not familiar with Aspen, but in general faster-growing open-grained woods are capable of being turned into some very fast charcoal. Black willow is an old standard, though it's my understanding Goex utilizes a mixture of maples, which depending on species can vary from fast growing, weak wood (e.g.: silver maple) to much harder, slower-growing wood (rock maple, sugar maple). Bear in mind the commercial powder manufacturers are NOT trying to get the fastest powder! That would make their product too variable, since you get different growth characteristics from even the same species growing in different locations, in wet vs dry years, etc. They are maximizing UNIFORMITY, not speed. So you know x grains of powder will propel a given projectile a given distance, or at least give reproducible muzzle velocities.
I peeled my share of pulp sticks as well , my son couldn't believe the logs were cross ways the train cars there having grown up in the PNW .
Used or new? You'll need a control batch. 😊
🎉propane powerd witch on a brooom dont know what ya feed them makes er fart well 🦬🐎
I know about nothing when it comes to flint and powder but this was highly interesting
Velocity consistency should make for good accuracy. Great video! Subscribed.
I think at least one reason that tp works so well is being in a light format, during carbonation, the gases are less restricked, so you get a more pure carbon. It seemed that when I used sawdust, it was a better carbon, but I had to put a soup can in the center of the paint can or the center tended to have some sawdust left, that hadn't carbonated. It was also way easier to grind when already somewhat fine befor firing.
I had the same thing trying to make-up airflow and found if you don't pack the can it can breathe in there and then it worked
You know, now your going to have to test all the brands as to which is king of the latrine. 😂
Great video. I doubt that I could make antique muzzleloader propellant (my brothers got all the mechanical inclination) but if I could - I would have NEVER considered toilet paper as a charcoal source. Resourcefulness is a good trait to have. Thank you for the excellent content.
I’ve been wanting to get into making black powder for a long time . Thanks for the inspiration
Lighter woods (like poplar etc) are used for TP and other papers. They like the white wood so there’s less bleaching required to get to “white”.
I was meaning to try this and you beat me to it haha.
I’ll have to watch your video again, I didn’t catch the charge weight you’re using.
Thanks for sharing your info, it’s helped me tremendously and put money back into my pocket.
Thank you. I do all my powder test with 50gr in my Kibler SMR
Maybe the microscopic grain size of the remaining cellulose in the toilet paper lends to better absorption of the potassium nitrate and sulfur. Anything I would think is just a guess but the way to get paper soft is by making grain structure smaller and more gaps between them. I bet if you examined your charcoal under a microscope it would be more porous but uniformly porous
I really enjoyed your video and the way you explained everything. I hunt with black powder rifle but never tried making it. Found this very interesting. Thanks. 😊
Thank you
Well done sir. You’ve made another significant discovery in the modern manufacture of black powder. I’ve given up trying to source alder buckthorn so this news about tp is most encouraging. Thank you!
Thank you. I will warn you that not all TP performed the same! I would not recommend quilted northern 😉
@@Everythingblackpowder
Thanks for the info.
You bet
I got 2 theories. 1st being that the processing makes smaller fibers or grains and that makes it easier to mill. The 2nd and better theory is most paper processing is aimed at removing a compound called lignin from the wood pulp. Wood is mostly made up of cellulose(the structural part) and lignin(glue that holds the cellulose together). The cellulose has bonds that break and char better whereas the lignin has very strong bonds that won't break down into pure carbon and leaves behind impurities that are hard to dissolve. So this is my educated guess
Yes I think you nailed it, I've been looking for and researching fiber with the least lignin...,...... suspecting it was the culprit . And low and behold it may have just been in my bathroom all along.......
@@tompowers8495 to add to the theory, I believe it’s also the fact the factory uses acids (bleaching agents) to isolate their cellulose from the wood pulp to get rid of impurities in the cellulose, and when he said he tried to wash his carbon sources, I noticed none of the things he mentioned were acids, all of them were solvents. I think he should try an attempt at making a cellulose isolate with an acid like bleach, I would use the type used for washing pool water to make a highly concentrated bleach for the task.
It not only shifts the proportions of cellulose and lignin, it leaches out all the nutrients, that contain other elements.
Lignin and cellulose are hydrocarbons. Only the distribution of carbon atoms is different, when it comes to charcoal.
@goiterlanternbase while it I'd true they are both hydrocarbons there are lots of aromatic structures in lignin. There are different papers where they have pyrolized lignin and they have found instead of producing only carbon there can be aromatic compounds left over that don't burn very well such as benzene and benzene derivatives. I think this could result in a better purer carbon source when the lignin is leached out
@@jaredrigdon3582I know, but pure cellulose doesn't work either. it has too little structure on its own. Not all the lignin is leeched out, by a far stretch. Toilet paper seems to have left just enough to work so much better.
What a fantastic upload to see when sitting down on the john.
These people act like the coolest people to hang out with they’re hilarious and got the best hobbies in the world
WOW! I was planning on trying some cottonwood as charcoal...... never mind now. I'm gonna have to try this out before it gets too cold/wet to dry anything out. Thanks again for the great info and for sharing.
Can you try starch next, potato or maybe cornstarch? It's also a carbohydrate polymer like cellulose, but has granular structure instead of fibers, nanometer scale regular size globules, I imagine the carbon obtained will also preserve that microstructure.
Basta misturar o amido (35%) com o nitrato (65%), que já funciona como pólvora.
@@sandroventania782 No, I think the carbon derived from starch could have some special properties due to its extremely fine consistency, starch by itself is a poor fuel.
This is hilarious and amazing at the same time! Well done Jake!
Thank you Ben
new test: compare cheap gas station public bathroom single ply to double ply gourmet quilted charmin
I found it super interesting, thank you
possibly the pulped wood gives such a perfect consistant uniform particle size , another great presentation
Thank you
This is fantastic news! To get these velocities is excellent, and the fouling is very acceptable, I would think the wood used for Toilet paper would be Birch or Poplar as they are both timbers without the usual elements found in hardwood. Very many thanks for posting this one! Chris B. P.S. I did think it was a bit of a wind up at first!
Thank you, Chris
I have seen pulp wood and family worked at them and it mostly pine down here
@@Nobodys-bd3bg That is interesting, they must use some aggressive chemicals to remove the high resin content on Pine, but I suppose the extra cost is offset by the amount of Pine they find available. Chris B.
YES Birch & Poplar are what is used in most of the paper mills up he in Wisconsin. ( the paper mills I know of here make brown cardboard paper rows mostly)
In the process of making tp the wood pulp is run through a digester. In this digester they use a combination of water and sulferdioxide(SO2). Any residew left from this process would be a sulfide compound that would aid in combustion when turned into black powder. That is my theorem. Love the video, keep up the good work.
Sulfuric acid is also a main component of making nitrocelleose powder, also known as smokeless powder.
I never thought much about home made black powder, yet this was very entertaining
Amazing results! This is why I love your channel.👍🏻
Thank you
"Some big name stinker companies like Charmin, Cottonelle, and Quilted Northern, among others, are clear cutting trees from places like the Canadian boreal forest," -- Sierra Club
Lots of softwoods in those forests although some web sources say toilet paper is about 70% hardwood and 30% softwood.
Still would like to see you use Cottonwood that was the source for the powder with less smoke than any before it and was the final form of the best powder being produced by the Augusta Powder Works at the end of the War between the States.
I would like to see you make a how to video of making of the powder from start to finish. Thank you.
It's probably the relatively extreme consistency of the paper mechanical structure. After charring, this likely grinds into particles with more consistent internal structure as well, thus the better performance. Also, a lot of that 'chemical treatment' to make paper basically washes out a lot of the lignin, so it's a purer cellulose that remains, and that is probably why it's cleaner too.
I imagine if it's just the latter lack of lignin, you could try that chemical cleaning and densification process to make transparent wood, and then char *that*, and see if it's any good.
Wood is typically composed of about 25% lignin, and 70% cellulosic carbohydrates, with roughly 45% cellulose and 25% hemicelluloses (Sjostrom, 1993). A paper based product typically contains 90-99% cellulose fibers which are the primary structural element and the most important component influencing end use properties. A network of self-bonding cellulose fibers within network structure affects chemical and physical characteristics of the paper products. More molecular chain bond length equals more surface area for reactions with sulphur and potassium nitrate.
Well done. Very interesting. I believe pulp wood is usually a soft wood, could the chemical processes remove the
oils and leaving only the bare cellulose fibers?
Seems reasonable
I worked at a Kimberly/Clark paper plant outside Tulsa. They used pure eucalyptus pulp from Brazil.
At the time I was there, no recycling was going on.
Interesting. Thank you
I havent seen anything of your vids, but just the channelname, made me subscribe.
I believe toilet paper is made from quick growing poplar. It should make a very fine char as it has been previously pulverized.
The question is, what would be more valuable in an apocalypse? Toilet paper or powder?
Powder is easier to make .
Have you tried straw yet?
Not yet
Very cool results! I would love to see how it performs from cartridges.
Me too!
I could see the TP yielding a finer and more consistent powder with greater surface area giving a better burn.
Im so glade this video poped up in my feed . I dont own any black powder fire arms but ac my very intrested in it and i didnt even know people made their own powder .
The septic safe single ply paper might even be better-- think that fluffy stuff might have a little something to help the plys fit together.
My uncle worked maintenance on paper mills, and one of his favorite things to say was, "if you knew what goes into toilet paper, you'd never wipe your ass again".
I'm from Tennessee. I was thinking why don't you just use corn Cobbs. 🌽 Or oatmeal or rye. and wheat stocks or just use corn Cobbs.
What a perfect time to find a new channel, grats on the find
Have you ever used wheat straw?? I've heard of it but don't know. Love the videos!!!
I'm new to this channel but this video got me thinking about other scrap paper, maybe junk mail. Probably best to use newsprint or magazines without colored inks other than black. Experimenting with junk mail may be a rathole but might be worth a try. Maybe colorful inks could surprise you.
This earned a sub. I build fireworks and we overlap in chasing the best charcoals for black powder. We use it to lift and burst shells. I am very curious how this would perform in fireworks conditions. There is far less pressures and much heavier payloads. Have you tried Eastern Red Cedar or willow?
Oh yes. They were my go to charcoals for a few years
Great video. I'm a first time viewer, and new subscriber. I'll definitely be watching more of your videos. Thank you for taking the time to do these experiments!
makes sense...
generally softwood charcoal is used because it's more porous and has more surface area to bind better with the other components.
similar to the charcoal in "black earth" more porous is better.
I imagine a charcoal made from straw would also work pretty well.
Awesome!
That make sense since Toilette paper doesnt content glue ,and other stuff which make ordinary paper white ,smooth etc.
Days before I was going to make nitrocelulose from Toilette paper,now I see this Video..Interesting coincidence.
Dying to see more of this stuff in cap and ball and cartridge revolvers.
We’re planning on adding that to the test
You finally did it. Lol.
Also finally got to finish this video after a busy day. Excellent work as always. I have a suspicion that part of it has to do with density of the fibers for a variety of reasons. Lower density carbon source will leave a more brittle and porous charcoal plus all of that extra space will be filled with air, steam, and pyrolysis products. What this basically translates to is a very high surface area carbon carrier supporting heavier phenols and creosotes on it's surface. The magic is in having them together as the brittleness ensures good mixing where pure cresote is too gummy to mix well. The slight addition or contamination by oxygen and water while it's cooking also helps in making these aromatic compounds to a limit though of course. It's probably dirtier than swiss or other alder based powders because there's too much free carbon meaning better control of the cooking temperature may be in question here. So much to think about here.
Gotta like the results!
What about trying the cheapest possibly single ply ones? They schould be free of any extra ingridients making them soft. But on the other hand they are propably made from recycled paper that has a lot of extra stuff in it.
I looked it up and microcrystaline cellulose is used as a filler in drug tablets and stuff. And it costs about 4 dollars for a kilo of this stuff(in my country, propably bit more in the america).
And this is propably as clean as you can get it.
Pulping increases the surface area of the fibers for better electronic bonding down stream after it has been charred. While your density may look the same for a given volume and particle size, the number of molecules per particle is probably higher.
I’m only concerned about the density of the finished powder
@@Everythingblackpowder I'm saying if you had the ability, like with an electron microscope to see the molecule size, I think you would see more molecules per particle. The TP carbon may bond better to the oxidizer and burn promoter?
This might be something that you want to check out !!! I don't know if it still is but cottonelle used to be made at least with a partial percentage of cotton fiber !!!
I am just starting down the rabbit hole of black powder. I was kinda stuck trying to decide what to use for charcoal. I wanted easy access and low cost. This is it!
TP is made from popular and Birchwood, with recycled paper depending on what's made. Acid is used to remove tannins to give a clean white paper. I suspect the thickness and tannin ,sap free paper makes high quality char that can absorb the P and S better. Making a much better mix . How did you char it still on the roll or did you tear the sheets and stack them. In Canadian here you need a license to make antique muzzleloader propellant. I love your show, Jake and watch carefully for the day I have to make my own at worlds end. 😂
Still on the roll.
Excellent velocity, fairly clean. Did you find any drawbacks?
As for why the TP works so well? All I can figure is something in the process that makes it work. At that velocity vs cleanliness and the very low cost and availability of toilet paper. If I was into making my own powder I’d stick with exactly what you made.
Absolutely no drawbacks, it performs exactly like Swiss
Surface area. With the wood being so processed before being made into the paper, the cellulose and other fibers are less compact. You burn away impurities and the material becomes even less dense. After pulverizing it in a ball mill, the powder is likely able to reach a consistency far more fine than products that have not been so heavily processed in such a short amount of time. With increased surface area, the burn rate is far faster than powders with less surface area available for the oxidization process of combustion.
the moisture is being removed way easier due to the paper being in thin sheets.
Others seem to have answered the "why" question, so now i suggest you try different TP brands and qualities. Can you get the same performance out of the super cheap 1-ply stuff?? Very cool test!!
When they make toilet paper, the pulverize the snot out of it, in order to make it soft, and they purify it to the n-th degree, in order to not irritate your "tender tissues".
Ultra fine wood particles and ultra pure cellulose --- sounds like the makings of some mighty fine charcoal powder to me.
funny that, When they make recycled paper they Beat the shit out of it to make it clean. :)
Really great tip!! 😱
I'm going to try the recipe but with Swiss saltpeter
Hemp charcoal has very similar preformance. The reason for the toilet paper working well is the high surface porosity per unit of mass. In fact hemp charcoal treated with acids to remove the metal salts is a "green" source of graphite for use in metal ion batteries. Works well with both sodium and lithium ions. Part of the reason it would work well as a gunpowder feedstock is that the potassium would intercsllate into it and electrostaticlly coat each particle with nitrate ions.
I just had a thought about this while driving into Virginia tonight on my way to North Carolina.
The CSA destroyed a lot of cotton during the Civil War, in order to pressure the European countries into interceding in the war on their behalf, and they also used a lot of cotton bales to make soft armor on their boats. What if they had turned that cotton into black powder? Try making a batch using a bag of cotton balls.
Will have a video on it this weekend
That's how they make char-cloth for fire starting. Use old blue 👖 jeans
The Confederacy's problem was a nitrate shortage as opposed to charcoal, thanks to being blockaded or embargoed. They had to distribute technical guides about how to refine it from urine in special straw filled barrels and the like via cottage industry.
@@MoreEvilThanYahweh grass in a 5-gallon bucket with water on it out in the sun after a couple days it starts to smell like cow manure I have no idea how much I made but it did the job
@@shanefowler3504 Yeah, but we're talking enough produced to help supply an army. So they had to go about it properly.
"Godwhisperer" isnt ironic :D In the making of toilet paper the wood fiber is purified and fluffed up to make wiping a non-grating experience. This then is carbonized, resulting in an extreme surface area caused by the fluffed-up fibers skeletonizing as the water is driven off. You then proceed with your standard proedure, resulting in a powder where muh more carbon surface area contacts the sulfur and nitrate, in the standardized grains, thus, higher velocity. The moment i heard your first shot I knew you hadn't been trolling, the shot sounded more -powerful- than most others, and this every shot. Great performance also in the .44 Navy!
Leave it to the Internet to make an almost insulting suggestion that turns out to outclass everything ever tried ^_^
Had you been a haughty suspicious man, an awesome discovery would have passed us all by at 1800fps!
Well said
It's possible the bleach they used to whiten the paper gave you an extra bit of oxidizer, also being very thin and puffed up it may have milled to a finer level. In any case a pretty cool finding and a great information for the rest of us.
Just subscribed. I loved the video and the topic. Thank you for doing it. Next is to compare 3 different brands of toilet paper. That would be interesting.
Looks like your lock time was fast as well. Also it could be based on how tp is made.
Love it when jokes turn serious. The looks after each shot, changing from incredulous to loving it was great.
It kind of makes sense. Toilet paper pulp, to my knowledge, is mostly softwood ( pine ). All the recipes for black powder that perform well recommend pine char that I’ve seen. The flash rate seems to be more rapid, with reduced soot fouling.
Good thing is if you had done this video two years ago, the toilet paper would have as hard to get as Goex was 6 months ago.
Yeah but if he'd done it 1 year ago he'd have found people trying to shift giant piles of TP at bargain prices!