I was told the same thing about a shaded panel affecting the whole string just yesterday by an installation company. I thought at the time that it sounded ridiculous, because why would anyone put up with solar if that was the case? Those massive strings you see in farmers' fields would come unstuck with the slightest bit of mud on them. I'm glad my hunch was right and you've done the experiments to prove it. I don't have to shell out for the micro-inverters now which should save a significant amount on the installation, and reduce points of failure in the panels themselves. Thanks!
@anthonyramirez6532 I am not an electrical engineer but from what I have read I like the idea of Enphase because they are safer for the installers and because, as far as I can judge, they offer more flexibility with panel replacement. Having said that, I know of old string systems that are performing well after many years.
People forget that almost all panels have 3 bypass diodes, which will help with shade and micro cracks. That's what's assisting with shade mitigation. I also note the cricket bat induced micro crack was made in a corner of the panel Let's take a look at the same in the centre of the panel.
You hit this outta of the park. Well done. Changed my mind on this issue. It remind us once again, always take a pint of salt with any marketer's claims.
Great video. Having sold over 1,000 string inverter systems, I always suspected your conclusions to be the case but you really nailed it! Thank you for your efforts.
That’s fine if you opt out of the benefits of micro inverters: - Flexibility of panel placement on the roof. Can have different orientations as each micro and panel is independent . Can easily manage different roof levels as AC cabling more flexible. - System can be easily expanded later as you just add more panels with micros underneath. No need to change the whole central inverter. - Safety as AC is low voltage and rapid shut down built in - Longer system life time compared to string inverters - Resilience. Should one micro fail then rest of system still producing - Module level monitoring and diagnostics - Sunlight backup without grid or battery powee as long as there is sun (IQ8)
Very nice and sober test with facts in focus. I have done about the same testing (minus the cricket bat test) on a 4 panel setup and I get the same results. Cover a cell and that, and only that panel is reduced by 33%. If you have a half-cut panel the result will even be half of that. So much marketing and misunderstandings that end up being truth on the internet as it is repeated a million times. What happened to the parallel testing? Did that ever happen?
Ground breaking video because it was done under such tight well thought out controls, so no one can question the Data. I am really looking forward to the parallel panel test and also please do a test on Clipping. I don't believe for a second that clipping averages out over the day. My batteries and Grid Tie will suck every Watt they can get, so peak time with strings means a lot more juice for the batteries.
I saw a RUclipsr who showed the effect of a TV mast that cast a long shadow across more than on panel. This really impacted the output but in the end he was not certain if the inverter was not getting fouled up. You may want to have a discussion of various string inverters to see what impact they can have based on some various shading situations.
As a solar noob who built their own system and decided to do an un popular parallel arrangement I can confirm one thing from this video, what every you choose you can't loose unless you pay to much. I bought my 2kw solar/4000w inverter/8kw of LifePo etc. for $7000au and while the worst 2/3 months of winter is a bit of a struggle I could not be happier otherwise because it provides all the comforts with few compromises. I doubt I am ever going back to being extorted 43c pkwh for something that can be had for fossil free!...Quite the opposite, I will likely buy another 2kw of panels to make that 3 months easier and have as much power as I can use for the rest of the time.
excellent proof of what the inverters today can do and the "out of date marketing" being used to needlessly grab more share of the customer's wallet. Do your research and thank you to NRG Solar from the othr side of the world ! PS sort your sound out mate. Cheers!
This is great. I am looking at installing a 50kw ground mount and am trying to decide between string and micro inverters. The information seems to suggest micro are vastly superior, but your experiment seems to indicate that is an over simplification. The difference in performance seems minor in real world conditions but the cost is significantly different. Although you didn't touch on it, the micro inverters don't seem to be a good solution for higher output panels 450+, which appears to be another downside for my particular situation. Thanks for taking the time and expense to do this, very helpful.
Great practical testing. Will the same apply for other brands of string inverters and APS micro inverters? We all knwo Fronius is a specialist in handling shading issues, so i wonder if other brands could reach similar results...
Thank you very much. I was always regretting my decision to use string inverter as I later found that there is some shading from neighbour's tree in the evening. I suspected that I was losing 20% of the energy generated as I expected to lose most of the energy after 3:30PM. Now I cam be at peace
Thanks, a really useful series of tests. One thing that could potentially affect the outcome is the panels used - some may be better than others when it comes to bypassing shaded cells. Poorly bypassing panels would show a greater difference between the two. I imagine the marketing departments would much prefer to use those kind of figures, even if if cheap panels and expensive inverters are an unlikely combination! NB I have no evidence as to whether there is any significant difference between panels when it comes to bypassing low output cells, this is pure conjecture.
Interesting and useful technical video. In the end from a consumer point of view what would be much useful is a comparison of the economics of this approach eg 1/2 cut panels + Fronius (or equivalent with GMPPT) or normal panels with micros, or normal panels with optimisers. I don't think anyone would dispute that standard panels with a simple inverter would perform much worse than the 2 options tested in the video. Otherwise the video really shouldn't be that much of a revelation as it's really very similar to a micro vs optimiser comparo. Ultimately it's all down to how much it would cost for the conditions at a particular site.
Nothing wrong with string systems. Was almost going to upgrade to an LG/Fronius, but decided on LG/enphase for a number of reasons. Was able to negotiate a great deal with a terrific company.
@@shijustin7746 Hi Justin. As above as well as panel level monitoring, ability to add panels in the future without worrying about stupid install rule changes, I like the Enphase micro system, had a string startup for 10 years prior to current system, so change was good, solid warranty and more. It's been almost 1 year since the install. Couldn't be happier with my choice.
Great tests, but what panels did you use? It would make sense that string inverters perform adequately with the newer half cell split module panel designs, but does that represent all manufacturers?
Very impressive. Thank you for this excellent video and the systematic approach. It is very helpful for solar builders and privat customers showing the unneeded fear of small shadows. What I miss is a conclusion or reasoning: what causes the unexpected productivity of the Fronius system? Is it the MPP optimisation of the inverter alone as you argumented, or isn’t it also the effect of the bypass diodes and the effect of indirect light that floods the shaded areas with reflected light from the environment? I’m very curious about your comments.
I'll be really interested in the results from your paralleled strings study as I have 3 strings paralleled into one MPPT and 2 strings into the other on a Fronius Symo inverter. The strings are on the four faces of my roof - the NE & SE orientations perform well however, the NW and SW orientations have shading issues at different times from street trees so your shading study will be interesting. As an aside, I don't expect the strings to perform equally as they have differing azimuths but knowing how shading of strings affects the other parallel string will be interesting. Cheers
2 years later and there doesn't seem to be the follow up video, shame. I really wanted to see that. I keep swinging back and forth between 2 string inverter/2 string with some optimizers and full microinverters. Thanks to this and the video that led me here, I can now see through the marketing BS but as I will have panels on an East and South facing roof, I still need to decide which option will produce the most power whilst taking into account the cost for each solution. I've only just started learning about this stuff so with another few hours of surfing I might start leaning in one direction but for now, I'm standing here scratching my chin unsure which way to go. The East facing side (6 panels) only gets sun early in the morning when the south facing side (18 panels) is shaded. After 10am they both get sun but by 4pm the East side is shaded again. My biggest concern is that one side could pull the other down when it's shaded and this would happen at each end of the day. I've been quoted for a 2 string inverter without any optimizers but he's now suggested adding these for the 6 panels on the East side but then the inverter comes into play. It's currently quoted as 8kwh but with both sides shaded a lot, will the inverter be able to produce anything outside of the 6 hour window? Probably the wrong place to post this, should probably find a forum but seeing as I'm here, any advice?
These tests presented are very enlightening and useful. But what is missing is a test when 6 of 12 modules are shaded. Do you have any experience now, that you can share here? We are currently planning for 4 sides of the roof with a lot of shade.
@@TarsisC1 I went with microinverters to avoid any shading bringing down more than just the panels in the shade. I've seen videos where this didn't happen and as I have 22 panels (not 24) I probably should have gone with an inverter to keep the cost down but I did like the idea of seeing what each panel is producing, also helps to spot one that isn't.
@@hotblack1166 Today, I think about 50 moduls on the north side with 2 strings at a fronius with an (10 - 20 kWh) akku. And enphase iQ8 the 50 other modules on the 3 other roof sides. The enphase inverter conected as a sub to the fronius. But I am still looking for the best solution.
have you considered testing when you have a few groups of 3 to 4 panels facing different orientations? They difference is when your configuration leads to a risk you do not have enough power to trigger the inverter.
I would really like to see voltage and current graphs. On the string inverter I wonder if the panel voltages are just increasing to compensate for the lower current. Assuming current actually decreases
Nice to see an intelligent, practical test of solar equipment - very well done. Could you test our political parties in the same way - especially the cricket bat test??? - just kidding - it would be like plaiting fog!
Your video has been invaluable, was thinking microinverter, but thinking string more a proposition. Thanks for taking the time and testing these situations. Does this apply more so for Fronius, or other branded inverters as well? Ive been doing my research and seeing the marketing is more hype than reality.
That is very valuable information for consumers! Great work. I was wondering, since my situation is a tree at south-east, what would the results be when 30% of the panels is affected. Enphase vs string with 30% shading, I am still looking for info.
@@felali no I gave up. Every setup is different eventually. It just isn't worth investing in Enphase imho. There's so many cheap panels with good wattage/price it is worth waiting and replace all cheap panels for even better ones. Optimizers are expensive and the labour costs are not even included. Add to that the occasional maintenance of you are unlucky and a home battery may be a fat beter investment with Victron inverters.
Thanks for the testing! I also tested shading panels, and the halfcut panel properly shaded WILL NOT DIE, and will not lower the performance of the whole string. Can anyone explain what happens on the panel level? The current should be halved on half covered panel, but it does not.
I wonder if one could drill down further into what caused the difference in unshaded production? What would the results have been with a string inverter with very low idle consumption, like a Victron?
Wish I’d seen this before paying a few thousand more for solar edge due to shading concerns! Hopefully solar quotes update their information as it was certainly my go to for facts
Depends on the inverter used, as long as the inverter has a good mppt (or mentions something like shader fix) you be good Advantages of micro inverters or solar egde is you can monitor each panel individually ark fault detection and shut down and a 5% imporvemt over a string setup in shade (or 50% improvement if your using a inverter with bad mppt that can't handle shade) I prefer micro inverters as everything is per solar panel and no main inverter or high voltage dc to mess with
Hi there! Could you do a test with half an array in the normal angle and the other half in a suboptimal angle (i.e. to simulate having panels on a North-South roof or an East-West roof)?
I have found that most solar design tools do this pretty well. I dont suspect there will be any difference to the normal losses between North and South. Be more interesting to see South facing enphase v fronius perhaps.
I used split cell panels which have some impact but this result would be very similar with all panels in my opinion. Its because of the Fronius Dynamic Peak manager looking at the global mppt versus just a local mppt.
Really appreciate the research done here. It confirms other tests carried out that have busted the myth of optimizers/micro inverters producing significantly more power than string inverters. I agree that despite the myth busting enphase still has its good points that make it valuable in certain scenarios. Plus it’s fairly easy and straightforward to install making it worth the added expense. Solaredge on the other hand I would never recommend under any circumstances. Their after sales support leaves something to be desired, which given what solar edge systems cost is not acceptable in my book. And I hate how unnecessarily involved they are to install. Fronius/enphase over solaredge any day of the week for me.
Can you test two inverters, example SMA and Fronius string inverter on same panel set???? That would be cool test to show difference in shadowing controll in string and how MPPT controlls voltage and current!! Even if second inverter would be cheap chinese like growatt or similar. Nobody has done that!! 10 -12 perc panels (about 410w), there is difference in line controll in mppt. Depence who has make the string inverter and software.
How is the inverter related or involved to a single panel being shaded. How does the inverter “handle” it? All it sees is more or less amps / volts. It can’t isolate one or two panels by itself. By less it has 2 way communication 😊
That's really interesting, thanks for doing the testing. I've often wondered about my choice to go with string inverter over micros even though I do have some partial (tree) shading which varies through the year. But the Fronius just seems to truck along really well, and a micro can't make the sun shine on a shaded panel. And yes, we've all been led to believe performance can be badly dragged down on a string system with limited shade in the wrong place but really, that's not been my experience. So unless one can exactly replicate conditions for similar system, who the hell can ever know? Well you did exactly that and now we all know. The biggest lift in performance I got was simply having the offending trees lopped (in an aesthetically pleasing manner by an arborist) to let more light through. Winter yield improved 30%. YMMV
After talking to multiple installers, watching many videos and reading articles about micro vs string inverters, I bought into the marketing as well. Thanks for doing this test and video. I was wondering how it would be if one of the panels malfunctions or optimizer/micro-inverter stops working, how it will effect it, I'm assuming minimal as it would be similar to the "micro-cracks" test.
Hi there! I love this video as it really shows the impact of shading on panels with and without optimisers. I am making a video myself which takes an in-depth technical look at solar panel shading. Would you be happy for me to reference this video, using one or two still images please? I would of course properly attribute the reference to NRG Solar in both the video itself and via a link in the video description. Please feel free to check out my other educational videos on Gary Does Solar. Many thanks! Gary
@@Sashwath21 And Cuba, and Dominican Republic, and Venezuela, and Korea, and Japan, and Canada, and Puerto Rico, and Nicaragua, and Afghanistan, and Panama, and Mexico, and Taiwan, and...
@@Sashwath21 You said nobody outside the US watches it. I gave you a list of countries where it is popular. Why do you think a lot of MLB players come from these Latin American countries, the Caribbean, Korea, and Japan? They even have their own leagues. Just admit you were wrong and move on. BTW, they do have a world cup of baseball, it is now called the world baseball classic, formally baseball world cup. Something else you didn't know.
@@SkepticCyclist there is a difference between how many countries play vs watch baseball. That is not the point I was trying to make though. My intention was to state that the viewership of baseball is minuscule compared to that of cricket. So it’s probable that someone had a cricket bat than a baseball bat.
I was told the same thing about a shaded panel affecting the whole string just yesterday by an installation company. I thought at the time that it sounded ridiculous, because why would anyone put up with solar if that was the case? Those massive strings you see in farmers' fields would come unstuck with the slightest bit of mud on them. I'm glad my hunch was right and you've done the experiments to prove it. I don't have to shell out for the micro-inverters now which should save a significant amount on the installation, and reduce points of failure in the panels themselves. Thanks!
Thanks for recording and publishing your results. It calls into question the Marketing claims of many Solar Manufacturers.
Dear Mr. May. Thank you very much for a brilliant explanation and demonstration of the differences between microinverters and string inverters.
@anthonyramirez6532 I am not an electrical engineer but from what I have read I like the idea of Enphase because they are safer for the installers and because, as far as I can judge, they offer more flexibility with panel replacement. Having said that, I know of old string systems that are performing well after many years.
People forget that almost all panels have 3 bypass diodes, which will help with shade and micro cracks. That's what's assisting with shade mitigation. I also note the cricket bat induced micro crack was made in a corner of the panel Let's take a look at the same in the centre of the panel.
And 1/2 cut 1/3 cut
a 15 cent diode puts in the work
You hit this outta of the park. Well done. Changed my mind on this issue. It remind us once again, always take a pint of salt with any marketer's claims.
As a previous enphase installer, I must say, I was convinced by the marketing as well, great tests 🙌
Great stuff that really squashes some of the hype regarding Enphase. It's certainly not the end all be all when it comes to shade efficiency.
Well done and I really like the fact that you actually built a test system to verify the claims.
Well Done Eddy, thanks for spending the time to do this research, interesting results. You deserve a nice bottle of Merlot for this effort
Can I borrow your sippy cup :)
Thank you for a clear explanation of the different responses to shade. Busting a few myths
Thanks Eddy, this is absolutely gold for me at the moment!
Thanks. It’s a pleasure to see someone to clear, thorough and accurate testing!
Great video. Having sold over 1,000 string inverter systems, I always suspected your conclusions to be the case but you really nailed it! Thank you for your efforts.
Thank you, your tests enlighted me, I am convinced now that a number of marketing issues are non-issues.
One of the best explanations of a solar panels. Thank you for that.
am Austrian and was in favor of those micro inverters, now am reconsidering Fronius for two homes, thanks pal :-)
That’s fine if you opt out of the benefits of micro inverters:
- Flexibility of panel placement on the roof. Can have different orientations as each micro and panel is independent . Can easily manage different roof levels as AC cabling more flexible.
- System can be easily expanded later as you just add more panels with micros underneath. No need to change the whole central inverter.
- Safety as AC is low voltage and rapid shut down built in
- Longer system life time compared to string inverters
- Resilience. Should one micro fail then rest of system still producing
- Module level monitoring and diagnostics
- Sunlight backup without grid or battery powee as long as there is sun (IQ8)
This video deserves 44 million views. Thank you
Very nice and sober test with facts in focus. I have done about the same testing (minus the cricket bat test) on a 4 panel setup and I get the same results. Cover a cell and that, and only that panel is reduced by 33%. If you have a half-cut panel the result will even be half of that. So much marketing and misunderstandings that end up being truth on the internet as it is repeated a million times.
What happened to the parallel testing? Did that ever happen?
Ground breaking video because it was done under such tight well thought out controls, so no one can question the Data. I am really looking forward to the parallel panel test and also please do a test on Clipping. I don't believe for a second that clipping averages out over the day. My batteries and Grid Tie will suck every Watt they can get, so peak time with strings means a lot more juice for the batteries.
Lol this is RUclips. People wil *always* question the data :P
I saw a RUclipsr who showed the effect of a TV mast that cast a long shadow across more than on panel. This really impacted the output but in the end he was not certain if the inverter was not getting fouled up. You may want to have a discussion of various string inverters to see what impact they can have based on some various shading situations.
Great work Eddy.
Would be very interesting a similar comparison between Microinverters and DC optimisers
ruclips.net/video/Dme8FGBlelw/видео.html&ab_channel=SolarSurfers
Give this man a medal please
Love to see this test including SolarEdge, on summer-ish day when Micro’s limit peak output
That was a real blessing to me.
As a solar noob who built their own system and decided to do an un popular parallel arrangement I can confirm one thing from this video, what every you choose you can't loose unless you pay to much. I bought my 2kw solar/4000w inverter/8kw of LifePo etc. for $7000au and while the worst 2/3 months of winter is a bit of a struggle I could not be happier otherwise because it provides all the comforts with few compromises. I doubt I am ever going back to being extorted 43c pkwh for something that can be had for fossil free!...Quite the opposite, I will likely buy another 2kw of panels to make that 3 months easier and have as much power as I can use for the rest of the time.
What's your preferences on panels
@@JoJoRocks5 Mine were Jinko cheetah's considered tier 1 but there are many affordable options. They are so cheap that I would just get tier 1.
Thx for info
excellent proof of what the inverters today can do and the "out of date marketing" being used to needlessly grab more share of the customer's wallet. Do your research and thank you to NRG Solar from the othr side of the world ! PS sort your sound out mate. Cheers!
This is great. I am looking at installing a 50kw ground mount and am trying to decide between string and micro inverters. The information seems to suggest micro are vastly superior, but your experiment seems to indicate that is an over simplification. The difference in performance seems minor in real world conditions but the cost is significantly different. Although you didn't touch on it, the micro inverters don't seem to be a good solution for higher output panels 450+, which appears to be another downside for my particular situation. Thanks for taking the time and expense to do this, very helpful.
Most excellent video! I feel much much better about my decision to go after a string based inverter.
great review and testing... as an installer myself this is awesome to learn and will change my advice to clients. :)
Thanks for putting out some really good convincing research.
Great video, strong, fair, honest and clear explanation. Congrats!
Great test. Can you do a comparison test between budget panel and premium panel, it would be great!
Great practical testing. Will the same apply for other brands of string inverters and APS micro inverters? We all knwo Fronius is a specialist in handling shading issues, so i wonder if other brands could reach similar results...
Top job NRG! Love your work! 👌
Thank you very much. I was always regretting my decision to use string inverter as I later found that there is some shading from neighbour's tree in the evening. I suspected that I was losing 20% of the energy generated as I expected to lose most of the energy after 3:30PM. Now I cam be at peace
Thank you for this video! I'm commenting, in hopes to make this video more visible.
Thanks, a really useful series of tests. One thing that could potentially affect the outcome is the panels used - some may be better than others when it comes to bypassing shaded cells. Poorly bypassing panels would show a greater difference between the two. I imagine the marketing departments would much prefer to use those kind of figures, even if if cheap panels and expensive inverters are an unlikely combination! NB I have no evidence as to whether there is any significant difference between panels when it comes to bypassing low output cells, this is pure conjecture.
nice job, thanks for investigating. Be curious to see how that smashed panel degrades in the weather over time as the traces oxidize.
would be interesting to see you simulate a tricky roof layout to see how much benefit you get with optimisers.
Interesting and useful technical video. In the end from a consumer point of view what would be much useful is a comparison of the economics of this approach eg 1/2 cut panels + Fronius (or equivalent with GMPPT) or normal panels with micros, or normal panels with optimisers. I don't think anyone would dispute that standard panels with a simple inverter would perform much worse than the 2 options tested in the video. Otherwise the video really shouldn't be that much of a revelation as it's really very similar to a micro vs optimiser comparo. Ultimately it's all down to how much it would cost for the conditions at a particular site.
Thank you for your video; nice to see some actual numbers. Any reason to believe snow would change your conclusions?
Thanks for doing those tests. Really cleared things up for me. Feeling a lot better about my choice going with strings for my upcoming solar project.
Great to hear!
Nothing wrong with string systems. Was almost going to upgrade to an LG/Fronius, but decided on LG/enphase for a number of reasons. Was able to negotiate a great deal with a terrific company.
@@davidissko9796 Hi David, I'd be appreciated if you can share the reason of your change from Fronius to Enphase.
@@shijustin7746 Hi Justin. As above as well as panel level monitoring, ability to add panels in the future without worrying about stupid install rule changes, I like the Enphase micro system, had a string startup for 10 years prior to current system, so change was good, solid warranty and more. It's been almost 1 year since the install. Couldn't be happier with my choice.
@@davidissko9796 Hi David, thanks a lot for your detailed explanation. Well noted.
So glad i came across this video! Now i know what i have to choose.
What a great experiment, thanks for explaining it so clearly! Too bad you're not in WA!
Great tests, but what panels did you use? It would make sense that string inverters perform adequately with the newer half cell split module panel designs, but does that represent all manufacturers?
1:54
Very impressive. Thank you for this excellent video and the systematic approach. It is very helpful for solar builders and privat customers showing the unneeded fear of small shadows. What I miss is a conclusion or reasoning: what causes the unexpected productivity of the Fronius system? Is it the MPP optimisation of the inverter alone as you argumented, or isn’t it also the effect of the bypass diodes and the effect of indirect light that floods the shaded areas with reflected light from the environment? I’m very curious about your comments.
Winaico
I'll be really interested in the results from your paralleled strings study as I have 3 strings paralleled into one MPPT and 2 strings into the other on a Fronius Symo inverter. The strings are on the four faces of my roof - the NE & SE orientations perform well however, the NW and SW orientations have shading issues at different times from street trees so your shading study will be interesting. As an aside, I don't expect the strings to perform equally as they have differing azimuths but knowing how shading of strings affects the other parallel string will be interesting. Cheers
Great video, just what I was suspecting! Thanks.
2 years later and there doesn't seem to be the follow up video, shame. I really wanted to see that. I keep swinging back and forth between 2 string inverter/2 string with some optimizers and full microinverters. Thanks to this and the video that led me here, I can now see through the marketing BS but as I will have panels on an East and South facing roof, I still need to decide which option will produce the most power whilst taking into account the cost for each solution. I've only just started learning about this stuff so with another few hours of surfing I might start leaning in one direction but for now, I'm standing here scratching my chin unsure which way to go. The East facing side (6 panels) only gets sun early in the morning when the south facing side (18 panels) is shaded. After 10am they both get sun but by 4pm the East side is shaded again. My biggest concern is that one side could pull the other down when it's shaded and this would happen at each end of the day. I've been quoted for a 2 string inverter without any optimizers but he's now suggested adding these for the 6 panels on the East side but then the inverter comes into play. It's currently quoted as 8kwh but with both sides shaded a lot, will the inverter be able to produce anything outside of the 6 hour window? Probably the wrong place to post this, should probably find a forum but seeing as I'm here, any advice?
These tests presented are very enlightening and useful.
But what is missing is a test when 6 of 12 modules are shaded.
Do you have any experience now, that you can share here?
We are currently planning for 4 sides of the roof with a lot of shade.
@@TarsisC1 I went with microinverters to avoid any shading bringing down more than just the panels in the shade. I've seen videos where this didn't happen and as I have 22 panels (not 24) I probably should have gone with an inverter to keep the cost down but I did like the idea of seeing what each panel is producing, also helps to spot one that isn't.
@@hotblack1166 Today, I think about 50 moduls on the north side with 2 strings at a fronius with an (10 - 20 kWh) akku. And enphase iQ8 the 50 other modules on the 3 other roof sides. The enphase inverter conected as a sub to the fronius. But I am still looking for the best solution.
Do one with SolarEdge!
Brilliant work and nice explanation 👍🏻
have you considered testing when you have a few groups of 3 to 4 panels facing different orientations? They difference is when your configuration leads to a risk you do not have enough power to trigger the inverter.
SUPER useful video!! Thank you very much for making it!!!!!
This is very enlightening. Thank you so much!
You're so welcome!
Brilliant video. Thank you for sharing 🇬🇧
Fantastic study! Thank you.
I would really like to see voltage and current graphs. On the string inverter I wonder if the panel voltages are just increasing to compensate for the lower current. Assuming current actually decreases
Nice to see an intelligent, practical test of solar equipment - very well done.
Could you test our political parties in the same way - especially the cricket bat test??? - just kidding - it would be like plaiting fog!
Cool video, clarified me alot! Thank you for the dedication, can't wait to watch the second version with 2 strings!
Your video has been invaluable, was thinking microinverter, but thinking string more a proposition. Thanks for taking the time and testing these situations. Does this apply more so for Fronius, or other branded inverters as well? Ive been doing my research and seeing the marketing is more hype than reality.
That is very valuable information for consumers! Great work.
I was wondering, since my situation is a tree at south-east, what would the results be when 30% of the panels is affected. Enphase vs string with 30% shading, I am still looking for info.
Have you found out about that?
@@felali no I gave up. Every setup is different eventually. It just isn't worth investing in Enphase imho. There's so many cheap panels with good wattage/price it is worth waiting and replace all cheap panels for even better ones.
Optimizers are expensive and the labour costs are not even included.
Add to that the occasional maintenance of you are unlucky and a home battery may be a fat beter investment with Victron inverters.
Very very interesting experimentation & testing 👌👍
The solar panels have the cells connected also in a kind of strings. They have bypass diodes to better manage the shadows.
"I found the leaves and cut them to scale" LOL. Nice testing!
Blimey did I just learn a lot or what! MANY THANKS mate you've also saved me a good few quid!
Thanks for the testing! I also tested shading panels, and the halfcut panel properly shaded WILL NOT DIE, and will not lower the performance of the whole string. Can anyone explain what happens on the panel level? The current should be halved on half covered panel, but it does not.
I wonder if one could drill down further into what caused the difference in unshaded production? What would the results have been with a string inverter with very low idle consumption, like a Victron?
now that was an awesome testing
Wish I’d seen this before paying a few thousand more for solar edge due to shading concerns! Hopefully solar quotes update their information as it was certainly my go to for facts
Depends on the inverter used, as long as the inverter has a good mppt (or mentions something like shader fix) you be good
Advantages of micro inverters or solar egde is you can monitor each panel individually ark fault detection and shut down and a 5% imporvemt over a string setup in shade (or 50% improvement if your using a inverter with bad mppt that can't handle shade)
I prefer micro inverters as everything is per solar panel and no main inverter or high voltage dc to mess with
@@leexgx if you touch a metal roof with leaking solar panels is there a risk?
What do fire fighters or trades men do?
Thank you for your effort in this video. I'm quite far away from you (🇨🇭) otherwise, I would be your new customer. Huge thank you! 👍
Thank you for putting this test together and sharing your findings, really helpful.
Hi there! Could you do a test with half an array in the normal angle and the other half in a suboptimal angle (i.e. to simulate having panels on a North-South roof or an East-West roof)?
I have found that most solar design tools do this pretty well. I dont suspect there will be any difference to the normal losses between North and South. Be more interesting to see South facing enphase v fronius perhaps.
Could you speak about the solar panels used versus other types of solar panels that may not be as forgiving for shadows?
I used split cell panels which have some impact but this result would be very similar with all panels in my opinion. Its because of the Fronius Dynamic Peak manager looking at the global mppt versus just a local mppt.
Really appreciate the research done here. It confirms other tests carried out that have busted the myth of optimizers/micro inverters producing significantly more power than string inverters.
I agree that despite the myth busting enphase still has its good points that make it valuable in certain scenarios. Plus it’s fairly easy and straightforward to install making it worth the added expense.
Solaredge on the other hand I would never recommend under any circumstances. Their after sales support leaves something to be desired, which given what solar edge systems cost is not acceptable in my book. And I hate how unnecessarily involved they are to install. Fronius/enphase over solaredge any day of the week for me.
Super interesting and very thorough, thanks for helping us understand with actual facts.
Can you test two inverters, example SMA and Fronius string inverter on same panel set???? That would be cool test to show difference in shadowing controll in string and how MPPT controlls voltage and current!! Even if second inverter would be cheap chinese like growatt or similar.
Nobody has done that!!
10 -12 perc panels (about 410w), there is difference in line controll in mppt. Depence who has make the string inverter and software.
Excellent work 👏
Fantastic. Great video mate.
Many thanks!
So what are the real benefits of micro inverters? When should you consider them?
Can cheap Sungrow inverter also solve the same shade problem? My installer keep promoting to get Solaredge and optimiser which is $3000 more expensive
Good job. Great effort and result.
Excellent information here, thank you very much!
How is the inverter related or involved to a single panel being shaded. How does the inverter “handle” it? All it sees is more or less amps / volts. It can’t isolate one or two panels by itself. By less it has 2 way communication 😊
Great video but I would like to see more than one panel shaded at a time. I am surprised at the experiment. Not what I expected.
Hi sorry for the last text. Here is what I tried to write. What panels did you use for the test. Kind regards Kjeld from Denmark
I wonder if the fact that the micro crack was at the beginning had any bearing on results.
Revealing information. I wonder if there are string systems which made the rumors to begin with still sold today.
Great test. Thank you for sharing.
That's really interesting, thanks for doing the testing.
I've often wondered about my choice to go with string inverter over micros even though I do have some partial (tree) shading which varies through the year. But the Fronius just seems to truck along really well, and a micro can't make the sun shine on a shaded panel.
And yes, we've all been led to believe performance can be badly dragged down on a string system with limited shade in the wrong place but really, that's not been my experience. So unless one can exactly replicate conditions for similar system, who the hell can ever know? Well you did exactly that and now we all know.
The biggest lift in performance I got was simply having the offending trees lopped (in an aesthetically pleasing manner by an arborist) to let more light through. Winter yield improved 30%. YMMV
After talking to multiple installers, watching many videos and reading articles about micro vs string inverters, I bought into the marketing as well. Thanks for doing this test and video. I was wondering how it would be if one of the panels malfunctions or optimizer/micro-inverter stops working, how it will effect it, I'm assuming minimal as it would be similar to the "micro-cracks" test.
The Winaico panels are half cut construction Would the use of full cell panels make a difference?
Any panel will work the same using Fronius global mppt tracking.
Hi there! I love this video as it really shows the impact of shading on panels with and without optimisers. I am making a video myself which takes an in-depth technical look at solar panel shading. Would you be happy for me to reference this video, using one or two still images please? I would of course properly attribute the reference to NRG Solar in both the video itself and via a link in the video description. Please feel free to check out my other educational videos on Gary Does Solar. Many thanks! Gary
Thank you so much ❤️
Very nice test, the only problem I know would kill a string inverter is if a panel went 100% bad and didn’t allow power to pass through.
Newer panels with bypass diodes make a big difference in helping string inverter setups NOT suffer like old-style panels, right?
Great test thank you. What I'd like to know is, is it easier to add more panels later, to a micro inverter system, than a string system. Please
Is there a link to the parallel array teat?
Very interesting. Would it be the same the same outcome with a budget Chinese string inverter, such as Solis, Growatt or Goodwe?
great video .you have any exerince if it increase output to put reflekting metal sheet infront of the solar panel
this video is incredible
You know you're in Australia when they use a cricket bat to break glass instead of a baseball bat
That’s because nobody watches baseball outside the USA.
@@Sashwath21 And Cuba, and Dominican Republic, and Venezuela, and Korea, and Japan, and Canada, and Puerto Rico, and Nicaragua, and Afghanistan, and Panama, and Mexico, and Taiwan, and...
@@SkepticCyclist right. So you’re saying afghans play baseball? If so many countries play baseball, why is there no baseball World Cup?
@@Sashwath21 You said nobody outside the US watches it. I gave you a list of countries where it is popular. Why do you think a lot of MLB players come from these Latin American countries, the Caribbean, Korea, and Japan? They even have their own leagues. Just admit you were wrong and move on.
BTW, they do have a world cup of baseball, it is now called the world baseball classic, formally baseball world cup. Something else you didn't know.
@@SkepticCyclist there is a difference between how many countries play vs watch baseball. That is not the point I was trying to make though. My intention was to state that the viewership of baseball is minuscule compared to that of cricket. So it’s probable that someone had a cricket bat than a baseball bat.