My guess as a naval architect is this. These ships were owned by the US government, and Congress in those days was pretty stingy. They tended to buy low-quality coal for the Navy because it was cheaper. Low quality means high sulfur content, which means that when it gets wet it produces sulfuric acid, which is corrosive. (This is entirely separate to her cargo on her final voyage.) And care and maintenance on a Navy support ship that wasn’t actually a fighting ship is exactly the sort of thing that Congress would have skimped out on. And, the ships also had squared-off hatches in the deck, which tend to create stress concentrations. And, Cyclops wasn’t the only member of her class to disappear. Proteus and Nereus also both disappeared at sea. The only one that didn’t was Jupiter, which was converted into America’s first aircraft carrier, but with significant structural modifications. So all three of the members of the class that were in their initial service vanished at sea. And on top of that, but there was pretty severe weather off the coast of Virginia around the time Cyclops would have been expected to be there based on her speed and route. And the other two also disappeared in rough weather. And all three ships were carrying ore, not coal, when they were lost. That is a cargo they were not designed for. Coal is actually pretty light weight as far as rocks go, so the holds on a collier are larger than the holds on a dedicated ore carrier designed to carry the same weight of cargo. This means that if a collier is carrying ore, it’s very easy to overload the ship because the holds won’t be anywhere near full at the point that the cargo weight has already reached the designed load for the ship’s structure. So my guess is this. The entire class had a pre-existing design flaw, which was exacerbated by the deterioration of the structure caused by the corrosive cargoes that they carried. Ultimately, the combination of insufficient longitudinal strength in the design, combined with loss of section modulus from corrosion, stress concentrations at the hatchways, overloading, and wave bending stresses caused by bad weather caused Cyclops, Proteus, and Nereus to all experience metal fatigue in their hull girders and eventually break in half. In those days, rules for watertight subdivision weren’t nearly as advanced as they are today, so it’s completely reasonable to believe that after breaking, the ships would sink pretty rapidly. Bulk carriers are infamous even today for sinking very quickly because their massive hatches let water flood in very quickly. And since their massive holds wouldn’t have been completely full because they were carrying ore instead of coal, it would leave with lots of volume that could flood with water, and leaves them vulnerable to the free surface effect once they flooded. Add all of that together, and you get a recipe for a ship that will break in half and sink too quickly to make a distress call. What sank those ships wasn’t magic or aliens, it was poor engineering and stingy politicians.
@michaelimbesi2314 I think this is most likely. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only member of the class to not disappear was converted into an aircraft carrier.
Just from my brief time working on lake freighters, and my enduring love of ships, and shipwrecks (the Great Lakes are the place for them!), that sounds like the most reasonable explanation I've heard thus far. Do you think these ships' large superstructures might have increased their instability in heavy weather? I'm no expert, but they just don't look like they'd be good for stability to me.
When I was a kid I remember reading a book that discussed the Cyclops and her sister ships. There was an account in it by a someone on one of the sister ships who reported a structural component (possibly a girder) in one of the holds practically turning to powder when he banged on it and an account of seeing the forward part of the ship raising up and down while the stern didn't and making horrible noises. The story stuck with me all these years and I really wish I could remember the name of the book or what subject it was on as It was 40 plus years ago, I was a huge book nerd and read a lot of books on a wide variety of subjects partly out of my own curiosity and on the recommendation of the librarian who was amused by a kid who kept borrowing books from the adult section of the library. I'd got bored with the selection in the children's section and had to get a letter from my parents and pay a 'bond' as at the time, children weren't allowed to borrow from the adult section. The library burned down (arson) years ago and they lost of a lot of history - books, newspaper records, microfiche etc.
@@TheEnigman Those stories of unusual motion and horrible noises sound suspiciously like reports from the Edmund Fitzgerald's last few trips. Those long, skinny lake freighters are supposed to have a certain amount of give to them, because at their length, if they don't bend and work with the seas under them, they'd just snap. But crew members who weren't on the last trip mentioned that the Fitz had been bending in ways that a ship just isn't supposed to before she was lost, and even her captain admitted that she was moving in heavy seas in ways that scared him. More than one sailor mentioned hearing ominous banging and groaning sounds, and seeing what looked like cracking around recently welded repairs. It sounds to me like the Cyclops ran into a similar fate - sudden and catastrophic structural failure in bad weather, with no time for a distress call. A sad situation that could have been prevented with better standards of care and maintenance.
One thing that sticks out to me is that USS Cyclops wasn't the only member of her class to go missing. USS Proteus and Nereus both disappeared in 1941, and the only member of the class that DIDN'T disappear was USS Jupiter, which later became the USS Langley, an aircraft carrier. With the report of bulging and corrosion of I-beams noted on the entire class, I believe it's likely that the Cyclops snapped in two, which would've rendered her wireless system inoperable and made her sink quickly, which would also explain why USS Proteus and Nereus disappeared, but not USS Langley, as, after conversion to a carrier, her days of carrying corrosive cargo would've been FAR behind her at that point.
Indeed, and not only did Langley no longer have to deal with corrosive cargoes but as part of her conversion all those empty storage spaces were replaced with decks and bulkheads and other new support members which would’ve given her hull much more ability to handle shocks and stress. Even then though towards the end of her career she was suffering from minor hull warping and buckling (though to be fair she’d seen decades of regular use by then).
The Bermuda triangle theory was far more dark and mysterious. The truth is often more tragic and preventable. R.I.P to all the sailors aboard the Cyclops!
It would be interesting to see what the load tonnage recommendations for ore and for coal for these ships actually were. These ships were very early construction and how much emphasis was put on that is unclear in the searches I could do casually. The stop at Barbados is noted on wikipedia (citing a Scientific American article so not the most reliable source in existence but not completely horrible either) to have been because the ship had settled below it's maximum load line in the water, so apparently it was overloaded at that point even for coal...but as the video states, Ore is not coal. Not only is it heavier, it sits in the hold and reacts to water getting in differently. So if they hit rough seas when overloaded with a cargo they're not designed for? Other ships have gone down with fewer danger factors.
@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 Personally, I believe they were sunk by axis subs. Just a few weeks after those ships vanished between St.Thomas and the continent, German & Italian subs attacked Aruba.
With the advent of digital technology and the massive influx in recent years of historic documents being scanned and digitized, it's likely only a matter of time until ships like USS Cyclops, SS Bannockburn, and Marquette & Bessimer No 2 are found. The biggest challenge with hunting for ships outside of the Great Lakes is the sheer size of the search zone. It's like hunting for a needle in a haystack the size Texas.
Speaking of- I come from IL and had the opportunity to visit the veterans' installation in Quincy. They have the name of a seaman who vanished on the Cyclops on their memorial plaque. It was a profound experience.
My grandfather kept a log / scrapbook during his time in the Navy starting in 1911 I believe. Among the numerous newspaper and magazine clippings are many photographs of big ass boats of the day including Cyclops. I kind of knew the story, but this video spells it out for me. Well done and thank you.
"-they're waiting for their final chapter to be written." A very nice and poignant way of ending this sad tale. Personally, I find a lot of similarities between the Cyclops and the Marine Sulpher Queen. Both lost without a trace, both with sister ships lost just as mysteriously or disastrously, and both with "supposed" connections to the Bermuda Triangle. They're mysteries that don't have their own answers individually, but take on answers when taken as parts of a larger whole. Perhaps one day they and their crews will be found.
@@MsAdventure531 You'd be correct. Nonetheless, that hasn't stopped conspiracy theorists from claiming it was Bermuda Triangle related. Hence why I said "supposed connections" in my original post.
It is well understood why the Sulpher Queen sank, it was carrying an extremely dangerous cargo that it couldn't manage. Anyway the "Triangle" is bunk, but some writers enjoy telling ghost stories.
Thank you so much for all of the work you put into these videos! Im not even a boat person, but the work you put into these always has me so excited just to listen to these stories. Thank you so much. My day just got so much better.
3:16 the way I screamed “WHAT?!” When I learned this!!! I used to visit Mare Island every time I went out to Vallejo, California. My grandfather is working on a book about the Mare Island historical naval hospital there! I have to send this to him! Thank you for making this video! Damn the torpedoes!
An interesting side note to the story is that out of the four Proteus-class colliers, three of them sunk in the same general area, under mysterious circumstances. I'll also have to verify my sources because it's been a while since I've seen the info, but when Jupiter, the last of the sisters, was converted into an Aircraft Carrier, the retrofit would also involve a strengthening of her structure, as well as new, more thoughtful calculations of her balance. Given that, a major design fault seems to be a very plausible explanation as to why they all sank, either leading to the structure of the ship getting destroyed, or capsizing, or why not both. If the ships were known to have been unbalanced, then it would make sense that they would more easily founder. If it were a U-Boat that targeted them, the structural weakness and poor balance of the ship would have most likely lead to them sinking even faster, or more unpredictably, leaving the crew little time to evacuate, thus leading to the loss of all hands in all three cases.
Not an expert, just someone who loves ships and has spent a bit of time on the water, but to my eye, that superstructure looks pretty top heavy, especially for something that's going to be sailing in the kind of weather you get in the tropical Atlantic. Just a thought.
As mentioned in the video - at a U-boat attack, there would have been a remark of the ship being sunk in the U-boat's logbook, let alone of one of those three. Also, one of the three would probably have been able to send a distress signal somehow... A catastrophic, fast sinking because of the ship being faulty (loading, structural integrety) and/or rough sea is the most likely cause.
@@EOJ111 Reading Detmers's book on the Kormoran is a real eye-opener. IIRC the Sydney was the only ship he sank that still had a crew on board. And we all know why THAT happened.
Thank you for telling this story. I was aware of Cyclops - mostly as a footnote to the Langley story - but I was unaware of the fate of the sister ships. Thank you!
I knew of the cyclops for a long while. But it wasn't until I was doing a school project on it that I found out it was related to the Langley. That was years ago tho.
Thank you for bringing focus to the lives lost on USS Cyclops, and actually showing their faces too. It's good to see the human side of these tragedies - the part of the events which actually make them a tragedy.
I do. But I can’t help but wonder if there’s a logical fallacy tucked into attributing one or two causes to 3 separate ships disappearing without more evidence.
If all but one of the ships built to a certain design sink or go missing under very similar circumstances, there's something wrong with that design. Simple logic.
@@EricDaMAJ I don't think it's a logical fallacy as much as a logical supposition given the limited info available... because without the wrecks to compare it's not about attributing a cause but simply postulating likely theories. And it's certainly noteworthy for three of the same unusual ship design to disappear under similar circumstances.
Great video. Regarding the cause of her disapperance: In my opinion she sank in the storm near the Virginia Capes probably by capsizing. There seems to be no reported problems with the cargo and the ship except the disabeled engine in the days before the last wireless transmission. So my theory of the events after the last message was recieved is that she steamed into the storm and was indeed sighted by the Amolco on March 9th. At some point after the constant battering of the rough sea caused the manganese ore to turn fully or partly into pulp (either it was already loaded wet in Brazil or some leakage happend during the storm). This pulp would started to slosh around in the cargo holds until it synchronised, so that the entire pulp in every cargo hold would went to one side of the ship and then the other. this process called "free surface effect" caused the cyclops to roll stronger and stronger, aided by her topheavy superstructure, until at an instance she rolled over and capsized. This would also explain the lack of any distress message, because the time between the crew realizing that something is wrong and the point of capsizing were probably a couple of minutes at best.
The only issue with this theory is that, with a disabled engine, it's unlikely she would have made it to the Virginia cape by March 9th. It's not terribly likely that a ship running with a disabled engine and heavily laden would be ahead of schedule unless the given schedule was substantially overcautious. If she was believed to be steaming at 10 knots, one would have to calculate the distance from Barbados, since that's the last known position, to VIrginia and see if should could have made that distance, at that speed to arrive there on March 9th.
What a well thought out and concisely explained theory! I am familiar with "free surface effect" and how water content of cargo is supposed to be monitored by a captain before/during loading, but until your post, I was unaware of manganese being subject to that and it being her cargo on that trip!
I only just made the connection, but the USS Cyclops was the subject of one of Clive Cussler's novels that I must have read when I was nine or ten. I think I'll read it again after this video. Great work, as always!
I just can't believe I had to scroll so far through the comments to find anyone even mention Cussler. Cyclops was by far one of Cussler's most demented and ambitious titles. It really was Cussler at his most Ian Fleming with airships, secret Soviet moonbases, and a showdown with Fidel Castro. While his later books might still reach for the bombastic, I don't think any of them ever went full James Bond like this one did.
Im surprised we still havent found the Cyclops. It is incidents like these that never get solved and make the ocean even more terrifying in what we do not know vs what we will ever learn.
If that one officer saw her bending in the middle or “hogging”, I’d assume at some point she broke apart. Happened to a number of great lakers. The Daniel J Morrell comes to mind.
Fascinating story; thanks for making and sharing this. I like how this tale spans decades and involves both Theodore Roosevelt (US President when the Cyclops was built) and Franklin Roosevelt (who declared Cyclops "lost with all hands"). As for what happened to the Cyclops, I think you're right: it was bad weather + shifting cargo. The Bermuda Triangle truly is a very dangerous stretch of ocean. Not because of anything supernatural, but because it's Hurricane Alley. Weather there can shift from good to bad in minutes flat, often killing the unwary. As with other unexplained disappearances (Amelia Earhart; MH-370; etc), I hope Cyclops is eventually found so that this mystery can be solved and so that any lessons which can be learned from it are learned.
The crew montage at the end tears your heart out - behind the exciting mystery for ship fans to ponder, there is also a lot of human pain for families involved. A sad loss of 300+ men; what would their lives have been like? Was going to skip this vid because I knew about the Cyclops, I am so glad I didn't.
I have to say, one thing the "woo-woo" accounts leave out is just how heavily loaded Cyclops was when she sank. If the hull buckled in rough seas? They'd be gone in minutes.
Very touching story, sad to lose so many young men. Your videos are very well done. Thank you for your research and effort in the telling of these stories.
1:41 I love the one guy who's so fascinated with the film camera that he forgets to keep shoveling coal for a few seconds. The clip before with all the filthy guys just stopping to smile at the camera is also cute.
@@warbunny13203Larry Kische wrote an excellent book exposing the MYTH of the so-called “Bermuda Triangle” It’s entitled “The Bermuda Triangle Mystery-SOLVED” and it is an excellent, well-sourced document that absolutely SHREDS the fairy tale of “The Bermuda Triangle”
I remember reading some years ago in the Washington Post that a diver off Cape Hatteras found a metal vessel of a type he had never seen before, with tall metal poles with wires attached, sitting upright on the bottom. He investigated and realized it was probably USS Cyclops, but could not locate her again. He is still searching!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
That last part about the unfinished lives gave me chills. I appreciate the seriousness and solemnity that you have with these cases, especially these that have been bastardized to ridiculousness with conspiracy theories.
Awesome video, really sad to hear the final tribute. Ive been in some rough seas and there is always that fear in the back of your mind, particularly on an older vessel. Reallyntouching words at the end.
As always, brilliant. So out of a class of 4 ships, 1 was converted to be an aircraft carrier and all the other 3 vanished without trace carrying a cargo denser than the coal round which they were designed... If I were a betting man, I'd bet all three broke in two at exactly the same location, and the part containing the radio operator was driven straight under the water by the configuration of the fractured ship, under way. We'll likely never know unless divers find one or more in the future. RIP all three crews.
A lot of channels ask you to hit the "like" button before you even watch the video. With Big Old Boats, I naturally hit the like button as soon as the video starts.
Maybe it’s because you have access to more varied footage in regards to this boat, but your editing of this episode is exceptionally well done! There’s something almost haunting in watching long-dead people working in this episode, at least to me
Hi! Great historical maritime video. You stated more than once that Newport News Shipbuilding was located in Norfolk, Virginia. It is located in the City of Newport News, Virginia. Also FYI, Norfolk Naval Shipyard is located in the City of Portsmouth, Virginia. History and Geography go hand in hand when accurately recounting events.
12:24 Gahh, the unspoken implication there is so unsettling... 18:51 Hmmm, do I smell a topic for another potential video? It'd be a video I'd be interested in.
If I was to hazard a guess I'd say all 3 lost ships broke in half and sank like a stone. The reason none of them radioed for help was probably because the engines were at the back and the bridge was at the front, so when the ships broke in half, the electrical cables supplying the bridge were severed so the radio didn't work. Since ore is very heavy and not buoyant, and a lot of the flotation was at the ends of the ship, it's possible that breaking in the middle caused the ships to fold in half and sink almost instantly, making escape all but impossible.
I didn't realize the crew size 300+ on those ships was so much larger than the ore freighters on the Great Lakes which have less than 50, are those ships that much larger? or what is the reason for so much more crew.
I was puzzled by that too. Given that 50 were just passengers, 250 still sounds a lot for a collier which had a mechanised loading/unloading system as part of the design. It isn't as if they needed that many hands to shovel coal. Even allowing for a large stokehold crew in a coal-fired ship, and a number of gunners, it's not clear to me what that many men were needed for.
This is fantastic work and very well done. Thank you. 309 souls lost. RIP. The most simple theories are the likeliest: Rapid capsizing or the hull breaking in two.
Excellent presentation as always! Sad tale. One correction is necessary: Newport News Shipbuilding is actually in Newport News, Virginia, not Norfolk, which is on the other side of the James River and is home to Norfolk Naval Base. The shipbuilder is a private company with its own apprentice school.
The first American aircraft carrier, USS Langley, was converted from the USS Jupiter. All 3 of the remaining sisters disappeared without any trace and with all hands. 6:37
Banging and clanging hull plates indicative of stress loads under normal load out and then overloading the ships structure with a denser heavier bulk cargo probably caused a catastrophic breakup at the keel for all those ships. There must have been a design flaw not factored in for the extra dense bulk cargo. Wonder if computer modelling would provide a answer?
Very good editing on this video as well. The focus on the captain is obvious, but as you point out in the first couple of minutes, the problems the captain posed wasn't an unknown, yet the navy kept him on. That decision lead directly to that tragedy. I doubt its much different today, only the tech has improved.
It's funny how many times I've heard this story from paranormal and mystery channels, but only this video has mentioned that the captain was a drunk lunatic. That makes it a lot more explainable LOL.
Love your North American accent. I mean this as no slight to the many British/Australian youtubers. But to sound authoritative does NOT require such. Having said that .. cheers mate 💛
4 inch 50 caliber guns were fitted. The "50 Caliber" part of that, is describing how long the barrel is *In relation to the barrel size*... Without saying it's a 4 inch gun... It could be anything from a peashooter to a 16" battleship main gun.
@@myparceltape1169 yes, however in this case, in naval cannons it refers to barrel length to barrel size. These were specifically 4" guns, 50 calibers in length.
Was always surprised by how many were on board, as for the captain short of murder or losing his ship the navy almost always supported the captain of a vessel. Over time didn't everyone of cyclones sisters also sink?
I'm from Belfast home of Harland and Wolff I live like 2 miles from the shipyard I love your content it's fantastic love your way of telling a story especially on the Great Lakes they scare the hell out of me but I hope one day to go there I no this story is not about the lakes but I fot I would comment keep up your channel I can't get enough
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My guess as a naval architect is this. These ships were owned by the US government, and Congress in those days was pretty stingy. They tended to buy low-quality coal for the Navy because it was cheaper. Low quality means high sulfur content, which means that when it gets wet it produces sulfuric acid, which is corrosive. (This is entirely separate to her cargo on her final voyage.) And care and maintenance on a Navy support ship that wasn’t actually a fighting ship is exactly the sort of thing that Congress would have skimped out on.
And, the ships also had squared-off hatches in the deck, which tend to create stress concentrations.
And, Cyclops wasn’t the only member of her class to disappear. Proteus and Nereus also both disappeared at sea. The only one that didn’t was Jupiter, which was converted into America’s first aircraft carrier, but with significant structural modifications. So all three of the members of the class that were in their initial service vanished at sea.
And on top of that, but there was pretty severe weather off the coast of Virginia around the time Cyclops would have been expected to be there based on her speed and route. And the other two also disappeared in rough weather.
And all three ships were carrying ore, not coal, when they were lost. That is a cargo they were not designed for. Coal is actually pretty light weight as far as rocks go, so the holds on a collier are larger than the holds on a dedicated ore carrier designed to carry the same weight of cargo. This means that if a collier is carrying ore, it’s very easy to overload the ship because the holds won’t be anywhere near full at the point that the cargo weight has already reached the designed load for the ship’s structure.
So my guess is this. The entire class had a pre-existing design flaw, which was exacerbated by the deterioration of the structure caused by the corrosive cargoes that they carried. Ultimately, the combination of insufficient longitudinal strength in the design, combined with loss of section modulus from corrosion, stress concentrations at the hatchways, overloading, and wave bending stresses caused by bad weather caused Cyclops, Proteus, and Nereus to all experience metal fatigue in their hull girders and eventually break in half. In those days, rules for watertight subdivision weren’t nearly as advanced as they are today, so it’s completely reasonable to believe that after breaking, the ships would sink pretty rapidly. Bulk carriers are infamous even today for sinking very quickly because their massive hatches let water flood in very quickly. And since their massive holds wouldn’t have been completely full because they were carrying ore instead of coal, it would leave with lots of volume that could flood with water, and leaves them vulnerable to the free surface effect once they flooded. Add all of that together, and you get a recipe for a ship that will break in half and sink too quickly to make a distress call. What sank those ships wasn’t magic or aliens, it was poor engineering and stingy politicians.
@michaelimbesi2314 I think this is most likely. I don't think it's a coincidence that the only member of the class to not disappear was converted into an aircraft carrier.
Just from my brief time working on lake freighters, and my enduring love of ships, and shipwrecks (the Great Lakes are the place for them!), that sounds like the most reasonable explanation I've heard thus far.
Do you think these ships' large superstructures might have increased their instability in heavy weather? I'm no expert, but they just don't look like they'd be good for stability to me.
@@thing_under_the_stairs They should be relatively lightweight compared to the massive amount of ore in the holds.
When I was a kid I remember reading a book that discussed the Cyclops and her sister ships. There was an account in it by a someone on one of the sister ships who reported a structural component (possibly a girder) in one of the holds practically turning to powder when he banged on it and an account of seeing the forward part of the ship raising up and down while the stern didn't and making horrible noises.
The story stuck with me all these years and I really wish I could remember the name of the book or what subject it was on as It was 40 plus years ago, I was a huge book nerd and read a lot of books on a wide variety of subjects partly out of my own curiosity and on the recommendation of the librarian who was amused by a kid who kept borrowing books from the adult section of the library. I'd got bored with the selection in the children's section and had to get a letter from my parents and pay a 'bond' as at the time, children weren't allowed to borrow from the adult section. The library burned down (arson) years ago and they lost of a lot of history - books, newspaper records, microfiche etc.
@@TheEnigman Those stories of unusual motion and horrible noises sound suspiciously like reports from the Edmund Fitzgerald's last few trips. Those long, skinny lake freighters are supposed to have a certain amount of give to them, because at their length, if they don't bend and work with the seas under them, they'd just snap. But crew members who weren't on the last trip mentioned that the Fitz had been bending in ways that a ship just isn't supposed to before she was lost, and even her captain admitted that she was moving in heavy seas in ways that scared him. More than one sailor mentioned hearing ominous banging and groaning sounds, and seeing what looked like cracking around recently welded repairs. It sounds to me like the Cyclops ran into a similar fate - sudden and catastrophic structural failure in bad weather, with no time for a distress call. A sad situation that could have been prevented with better standards of care and maintenance.
One thing that sticks out to me is that USS Cyclops wasn't the only member of her class to go missing. USS Proteus and Nereus both disappeared in 1941, and the only member of the class that DIDN'T disappear was USS Jupiter, which later became the USS Langley, an aircraft carrier.
With the report of bulging and corrosion of I-beams noted on the entire class, I believe it's likely that the Cyclops snapped in two, which would've rendered her wireless system inoperable and made her sink quickly, which would also explain why USS Proteus and Nereus disappeared, but not USS Langley, as, after conversion to a carrier, her days of carrying corrosive cargo would've been FAR behind her at that point.
I believe that this can be shortened to, "a design flaw inherent in the class."
Indeed, and not only did Langley no longer have to deal with corrosive cargoes but as part of her conversion all those empty storage spaces were replaced with decks and bulkheads and other new support members which would’ve given her hull much more ability to handle shocks and stress. Even then though towards the end of her career she was suffering from minor hull warping and buckling (though to be fair she’d seen decades of regular use by then).
This is what I have always suspected as well, especially if she got into seas that were at all heavy. There are enough similar examples out there.
The Bermuda triangle theory was far more dark and mysterious. The truth is often more tragic and preventable. R.I.P to all the sailors aboard the Cyclops!
@@corvus8000 THIS.
"Overloaded and unbalanced"; sounds like my last diagnosis.
Shoot... sounds like my ex-wife...
😂 kidding!!!
Maybe...
Didn't know my medical history was part of the script....
This is hilarious but I kind of feel bad laughing lol
It's a club I also belong to. Welcome!
I've never felt more seen
If he was so hated and so drunk, I am surprised he didn't "accidentally" fall overboard
Captain birdseye 9000
I was thinking the same thing. It's been known to happen...
Average, everyday people aren't prone to cold blooded murder. Oddly enough.
@@carlmanvers5009especially when it comes with a guaranteed firing squad sentence
That one old senile captain from Hornblower
Cyclops' sister ships would vanish 23 years later, 17 days apart, on the same route. Both ships were carrying aluminium ore for the war effort.
It would be interesting to see what the load tonnage recommendations for ore and for coal for these ships actually were. These ships were very early construction and how much emphasis was put on that is unclear in the searches I could do casually. The stop at Barbados is noted on wikipedia (citing a Scientific American article so not the most reliable source in existence but not completely horrible either) to have been because the ship had settled below it's maximum load line in the water, so apparently it was overloaded at that point even for coal...but as the video states, Ore is not coal. Not only is it heavier, it sits in the hold and reacts to water getting in differently. So if they hit rough seas when overloaded with a cargo they're not designed for?
Other ships have gone down with fewer danger factors.
@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 Personally, I believe they were sunk by axis subs. Just a few weeks after those ships vanished between St.Thomas and the continent, German & Italian subs attacked Aruba.
We are living in a bit of a golden age of finding shipwrecks, I hope some team finds the USS Cyclops to give the crew some closure.
With the advent of digital technology and the massive influx in recent years of historic documents being scanned and digitized, it's likely only a matter of time until ships like USS Cyclops, SS Bannockburn, and Marquette & Bessimer No 2 are found. The biggest challenge with hunting for ships outside of the Great Lakes is the sheer size of the search zone. It's like hunting for a needle in a haystack the size Texas.
The problem is that the probable location of the Cyclops is well inside an oceanic trench :(
Not closure for the crew but for those relatives who still remembers them. Given it is now 2024, it’s likely to be among the family legends.
@@riograndedosulball248 the wreck is in the old bahamas channel.
After over 100 years wouldn't the Cyclops have mostly disintegrated by now?
Thank you, as always, for remembering the crew; we frequently remember the vessel, but rarely the people who crewed the ships 😓🫡
Speaking of- I come from IL and had the opportunity to visit the veterans' installation in Quincy. They have the name of a seaman who vanished on the Cyclops on their memorial plaque. It was a profound experience.
Aye. The good Rueben James... By Woody Guthrie.
My grandfather kept a log / scrapbook during his time in the Navy starting in 1911 I believe.
Among the numerous newspaper and magazine clippings are many photographs of big ass boats of the day including Cyclops.
I kind of knew the story, but this video spells it out for me.
Well done and thank you.
your grandfather sounds really cool, that would have been fun to look at his newspaper and magazine clippings
Hey i know this is weird, but could you digitalize it? Maybe there are some images or magazine entries that aren't really known.
Your last tribute to these young men brought me to tears. Well said.
Tears??
"-they're waiting for their final chapter to be written." A very nice and poignant way of ending this sad tale.
Personally, I find a lot of similarities between the Cyclops and the Marine Sulpher Queen. Both lost without a trace, both with sister ships lost just as mysteriously or disastrously, and both with "supposed" connections to the Bermuda Triangle. They're mysteries that don't have their own answers individually, but take on answers when taken as parts of a larger whole. Perhaps one day they and their crews will be found.
Marine Sulpher Queen was not lost within the Bermuda Triangle, but I believe just west of Ft Jefferson in the Gulf of Mexico.
@@MsAdventure531 You'd be correct. Nonetheless, that hasn't stopped conspiracy theorists from claiming it was Bermuda Triangle related. Hence why I said "supposed connections" in my original post.
It is well understood why the Sulpher Queen sank, it was carrying an extremely dangerous cargo that it couldn't manage. Anyway the "Triangle" is bunk, but some writers enjoy telling ghost stories.
It's interesting to see how everyone reacted to the presence of a camera back then, compared with today lol
I took note of that as well. Like they were staring at an alien.
@@stevegillespie6424for that era it was new technology for the time 15:12
@@jamesfracasse8178 Of course it was.
At least they did not flash the thug-life "peace sign" and make duck lips LIKE EVERYONE TODAY! And their tattoos were earned and artistic!
Didn't have to worry about your life getting turned upside down by the internet
Lol, the captain stated, she would last as long as we do. He should have said that we last as long as the ship does.
Then he would be admitting that something was wrong with the ship lol
Thank you so much for all of the work you put into these videos! Im not even a boat person, but the work you put into these always has me so excited just to listen to these stories. Thank you so much. My day just got so much better.
Well done. The ending is perfect, much more interesting than a reprise of Bermuda triangle woo-woo. The "survivor's" story really brings that home.
3:16 the way I screamed “WHAT?!” When I learned this!!! I used to visit Mare Island every time I went out to Vallejo, California. My grandfather is working on a book about the Mare Island historical naval hospital there! I have to send this to him! Thank you for making this video! Damn the torpedoes!
I've been asking for this a long time and I'm happy that you made a video about the Cyclops.
An interesting side note to the story is that out of the four Proteus-class colliers, three of them sunk in the same general area, under mysterious circumstances. I'll also have to verify my sources because it's been a while since I've seen the info, but when Jupiter, the last of the sisters, was converted into an Aircraft Carrier, the retrofit would also involve a strengthening of her structure, as well as new, more thoughtful calculations of her balance. Given that, a major design fault seems to be a very plausible explanation as to why they all sank, either leading to the structure of the ship getting destroyed, or capsizing, or why not both. If the ships were known to have been unbalanced, then it would make sense that they would more easily founder. If it were a U-Boat that targeted them, the structural weakness and poor balance of the ship would have most likely lead to them sinking even faster, or more unpredictably, leaving the crew little time to evacuate, thus leading to the loss of all hands in all three cases.
Hmmm
Not an expert, just someone who loves ships and has spent a bit of time on the water, but to my eye, that superstructure looks pretty top heavy, especially for something that's going to be sailing in the kind of weather you get in the tropical Atlantic. Just a thought.
As mentioned in the video - at a U-boat attack, there would have been a remark of the ship being sunk in the U-boat's logbook, let alone of one of those three. Also, one of the three would probably have been able to send a distress signal somehow... A catastrophic, fast sinking because of the ship being faulty (loading, structural integrety) and/or rough sea is the most likely cause.
@@katho8472 Also, if they were loaded with more weight than her original design called for that would explain quite a lot.
@@EOJ111 Reading Detmers's book on the Kormoran is a real eye-opener. IIRC the Sydney was the only ship he sank that still had a crew on board. And we all know why THAT happened.
Thank you for telling this story. I was aware of Cyclops - mostly as a footnote to the Langley story - but I was unaware of the fate of the sister ships. Thank you!
I knew of the cyclops for a long while. But it wasn't until I was doing a school project on it that I found out it was related to the Langley. That was years ago tho.
Thank you for bringing focus to the lives lost on USS Cyclops, and actually showing their faces too. It's good to see the human side of these tragedies - the part of the events which actually make them a tragedy.
How many people believe that most of this class was lost in the same way?
yes.
Maybe it was Structural failure like Edmund Fitz generald
I do. But I can’t help but wonder if there’s a logical fallacy tucked into attributing one or two causes to 3 separate ships disappearing without more evidence.
If all but one of the ships built to a certain design sink or go missing under very similar circumstances, there's something wrong with that design. Simple logic.
@@EricDaMAJ I don't think it's a logical fallacy as much as a logical supposition given the limited info available... because without the wrecks to compare it's not about attributing a cause but simply postulating likely theories. And it's certainly noteworthy for three of the same unusual ship design to disappear under similar circumstances.
Great video.
Regarding the cause of her disapperance:
In my opinion she sank in the storm near the Virginia Capes probably by capsizing. There seems to be no reported problems with the cargo and the ship except the disabeled engine in the days before the last wireless transmission. So my theory of the events after the last message was recieved is that she steamed into the storm and was indeed sighted by the Amolco on March 9th.
At some point after the constant battering of the rough sea caused the manganese ore to turn fully or partly into pulp (either it was already loaded wet in Brazil or some leakage happend during the storm). This pulp would started to slosh around in the cargo holds until it synchronised, so that the entire pulp in every cargo hold would went to one side of the ship and then the other. this process called "free surface effect" caused the cyclops to roll stronger and stronger, aided by her topheavy superstructure, until at an instance she rolled over and capsized.
This would also explain the lack of any distress message, because the time between the crew realizing that something is wrong and the point of capsizing were probably a couple of minutes at best.
The only issue with this theory is that, with a disabled engine, it's unlikely she would have made it to the Virginia cape by March 9th. It's not terribly likely that a ship running with a disabled engine and heavily laden would be ahead of schedule unless the given schedule was substantially overcautious. If she was believed to be steaming at 10 knots, one would have to calculate the distance from Barbados, since that's the last known position, to VIrginia and see if should could have made that distance, at that speed to arrive there on March 9th.
What a well thought out and concisely explained theory! I am familiar with "free surface effect" and how water content of cargo is supposed to be monitored by a captain before/during loading, but until your post, I was unaware of manganese being subject to that and it being her cargo on that trip!
I'm scared of the sea but my whole mom sides family is full of sailors -im always excited to watch ur videos !
This video is a good example of what sets your channel apart from countless others, the compassion at which you approach the subject matter.
Personally, i think she is somewhere off the coasts of Florida and the Carolinas, as that's the rough area she could've gone through.
Thanks for another excellent episode!
Thanks!
I only just made the connection, but the USS Cyclops was the subject of one of Clive Cussler's novels that I must have read when I was nine or ten. I think I'll read it again after this video. Great work, as always!
The book is called Cyclops, and it's a very good read.
I just can't believe I had to scroll so far through the comments to find anyone even mention Cussler. Cyclops was by far one of Cussler's most demented and ambitious titles. It really was Cussler at his most Ian Fleming with airships, secret Soviet moonbases, and a showdown with Fidel Castro. While his later books might still reach for the bombastic, I don't think any of them ever went full James Bond like this one did.
Old fan here too...
Im surprised we still havent found the Cyclops. It is incidents like these that never get solved and make the ocean even more terrifying in what we do not know vs what we will ever learn.
If that one officer saw her bending in the middle or “hogging”, I’d assume at some point she broke apart. Happened to a number of great lakers. The Daniel J Morrell comes to mind.
Beautifully done.
Fascinating story; thanks for making and sharing this. I like how this tale spans decades and involves both Theodore Roosevelt (US President when the Cyclops was built) and Franklin Roosevelt (who declared Cyclops "lost with all hands").
As for what happened to the Cyclops, I think you're right: it was bad weather + shifting cargo. The Bermuda Triangle truly is a very dangerous stretch of ocean. Not because of anything supernatural, but because it's Hurricane Alley. Weather there can shift from good to bad in minutes flat, often killing the unwary.
As with other unexplained disappearances (Amelia Earhart; MH-370; etc), I hope Cyclops is eventually found so that this mystery can be solved and so that any lessons which can be learned from it are learned.
Love this channel my friend
The crew montage at the end tears your heart out - behind the exciting mystery for ship fans to ponder, there is also a lot of human pain for families involved. A sad loss of 300+ men; what would their lives have been like? Was going to skip this vid because I knew about the Cyclops, I am so glad I didn't.
I have to say, one thing the "woo-woo" accounts leave out is just how heavily loaded Cyclops was when she sank. If the hull buckled in rough seas? They'd be gone in minutes.
You did such a great service at the end of your video to those lost men with the pictorial montage.
Absolutely thoughtful last words made by You -thank you for showing the faces of these young heroes lives cut short
Loved this, so well made, and how wonderful to see the old films.
Very touching story, sad to lose so many young men. Your videos are very well done. Thank you for your research and effort in the telling of these stories.
It truly makes my day when you post a new video
1:41 I love the one guy who's so fascinated with the film camera that he forgets to keep shoveling coal for a few seconds.
The clip before with all the filthy guys just stopping to smile at the camera is also cute.
First heard of this ship through the Clive Cussler novel of the same name.
Tbh the way things lined up are like a episode of date line. Fascinating video man!
It's great to see a documentary about the Cyclops that doesn't mention the Bermuda Triangle until the final 2 minutes and then only as a side note.
never dismiss the Triangle as a possibility🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🇺🇲🦅🇺🇲
@@warbunny13203Larry Kische wrote an excellent book exposing the MYTH of the so-called “Bermuda Triangle”
It’s entitled “The Bermuda Triangle Mystery-SOLVED” and it is an excellent, well-sourced document that absolutely SHREDS the fairy tale of “The Bermuda Triangle”
I love it when I see there is a new drop! Biscuits and gravy and a bloody Mary, the dog, and a down comforter!
That sounds great! Mind sharing?
@@thing_under_the_stairs Everything but the dog :)
@@michaelaltig5519 Fair enough, I've got a cat here. :)
Like your Style. Bloody Mary sounds so good.
I remember reading some years ago in the Washington Post that a diver off Cape Hatteras found a metal vessel of a type he had never seen before, with tall metal poles with wires attached, sitting upright on the bottom. He investigated and realized it was probably USS Cyclops, but could not locate her again. He is still searching!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
That last part about the unfinished lives gave me chills. I appreciate the seriousness and solemnity that you have with these cases, especially these that have been bastardized to ridiculousness with conspiracy theories.
thank you - beautifully done. more period authentic music ?
Excellent video, very well done. As always.
Awesome video, really sad to hear the final tribute. Ive been in some rough seas and there is always that fear in the back of your mind, particularly on an older vessel. Reallyntouching words at the end.
Amazing. Still living and sailing beneath the waves❤RIP
As always, brilliant. So out of a class of 4 ships, 1 was converted to be an aircraft carrier and all the other 3 vanished without trace carrying a cargo denser than the coal round which they were designed... If I were a betting man, I'd bet all three broke in two at exactly the same location, and the part containing the radio operator was driven straight under the water by the configuration of the fractured ship, under way. We'll likely never know unless divers find one or more in the future. RIP all three crews.
Outstanding job thanks for all the
Hard work.👌
Fascinating. Wonderful tribute to the men lost.
Good one! I’m really liking the new music!
A lot of channels ask you to hit the "like" button before you even watch the video. With Big Old Boats, I naturally hit the like button as soon as the video starts.
Maybe it’s because you have access to more varied footage in regards to this boat, but your editing of this episode is exceptionally well done!
There’s something almost haunting in watching long-dead people working in this episode, at least to me
broke in half and sank in seconds...seems to fit the other descriptions of how the ship reacted in rough seas.
Thank you for your highly informative and interesting video.
Hi! Great historical maritime video. You stated more than once that Newport News Shipbuilding was located in Norfolk, Virginia. It is located in the City of Newport News, Virginia. Also FYI, Norfolk Naval Shipyard is located in the City of Portsmouth, Virginia. History and Geography go hand in hand when accurately recounting events.
On the first one here yes looking forward to this one😊
Thank you very interesting.
I really enjoy your uploads, BoB. THank you much. Take care, keep safe.
12:24 Gahh, the unspoken implication there is so unsettling...
18:51 Hmmm, do I smell a topic for another potential video? It'd be a video I'd be interested in.
Great video as usual. Thanks.
FYI, there is an editing issue at about 23:50, where the same audio is ran twice in a row.
Another great episode, thank you 👍
Well done. Thanks.
beautiful tribute at the end 🙏
Very interesting & well-done video!!!
If I was to hazard a guess I'd say all 3 lost ships broke in half and sank like a stone. The reason none of them radioed for help was probably because the engines were at the back and the bridge was at the front, so when the ships broke in half, the electrical cables supplying the bridge were severed so the radio didn't work. Since ore is very heavy and not buoyant, and a lot of the flotation was at the ends of the ship, it's possible that breaking in the middle caused the ships to fold in half and sink almost instantly, making escape all but impossible.
Excellent presentation as always! Many thanks for your commitment to well researched, good story-telling that never veers into sensationalism.
Ok, you have me hooked. The reports of sinking of the Great Lakes prove of the particular dangers of sailing there .
Thank you I really enjoy your videos .
I did a book report on the Cyclops when I was in high school 50 years ago.
What book?
Have to say your voice is so calming, I love just listening to these videos.
I didn't realize the crew size 300+ on those ships was so much larger than the ore freighters on the Great Lakes which have less than 50, are those ships that much larger? or what is the reason for so much more crew.
I was puzzled by that too. Given that 50 were just passengers, 250 still sounds a lot for a collier which had a mechanised loading/unloading system as part of the design. It isn't as if they needed that many hands to shovel coal. Even allowing for a large stokehold crew in a coal-fired ship, and a number of gunners, it's not clear to me what that many men were needed for.
Reminds me of my time on the S.S. Crapola.
Another great vid❤
This is fantastic work and very well done. Thank you. 309 souls lost. RIP. The most simple theories are the likeliest: Rapid capsizing or the hull breaking in two.
Excellent presentation as always! Sad tale. One correction is necessary: Newport News Shipbuilding is actually in Newport News, Virginia, not Norfolk, which is on the other side of the James River and is home to Norfolk Naval Base. The shipbuilder is a private company with its own apprentice school.
And Norfolk Naval Base didn't exist until 1917, so the Norfolk naval yard referenced is Norfolk Naval Shipyard... which is in Portsmouth, VA. ; )
The first American aircraft carrier, USS Langley, was converted from the USS Jupiter. All 3 of the remaining sisters disappeared without any trace and with all hands. 6:37
and she too was lost, but due to enemy action
Banging and clanging hull plates indicative of stress loads under normal load out and then overloading the ships structure with a denser heavier bulk cargo probably caused a catastrophic breakup at the keel for all those ships. There must have been a design flaw not factored in for the extra dense bulk cargo. Wonder if computer modelling would provide a answer?
Great video!
Love your videos
Very good editing on this video as well. The focus on the captain is obvious, but as you point out in the first couple of minutes, the problems the captain posed wasn't an unknown, yet the navy kept him on. That decision lead directly to that tragedy. I doubt its much different today, only the tech has improved.
It's funny how many times I've heard this story from paranormal and mystery channels, but only this video has mentioned that the captain was a drunk lunatic. That makes it a lot more explainable LOL.
Love your North American accent. I mean this as no slight to the many British/Australian youtubers. But to sound authoritative does NOT require such. Having said that .. cheers mate 💛
4 inch 50 caliber guns were fitted.
The "50 Caliber" part of that, is describing how long the barrel is *In relation to the barrel size*... Without saying it's a 4 inch gun... It could be anything from a peashooter to a 16" battleship main gun.
I've often come across people referring to the 0.50 inch bore machine gun as fifty caliber. (Spelling as spoken)
@@myparceltape1169 yes, however in this case, in naval cannons it refers to barrel length to barrel size. These were specifically 4" guns, 50 calibers in length.
@@Peepjouster27 Sensible.
Except, the M2 50 cal wasn't developed until 1918 and wasn't put into service until 1919.
@myparceltape1169
@@brothergrimaldus3836 thank you.
I like your videos. Very interesting. Suggestion… lower the music volume when you are speaking.
Was always surprised by how many were on board, as for the captain short of murder or losing his ship the navy almost always supported the captain of a vessel. Over time didn't everyone of cyclones sisters also sink?
The novel by Clive Cussler put this ship on my radar, breaking in half in a storm was shocking.
"I love the way you build suspense! The atmosphere is perfect! [3:42]"
Thank you
Great video..but newport news shipbuilding and dock (now HII) is located in newport news va..nit Norfolk
Wow, found this channel by chance, OUTSTANDING theme, these are amongst my most favorite stories, very impressed!!
I'm from Belfast home of Harland and Wolff I live like 2 miles from the shipyard I love your content it's fantastic love your way of telling a story especially on the Great Lakes they scare the hell out of me but I hope one day to go there I no this story is not about the lakes but I fot I would comment keep up your channel I can't get enough
Well done. New to your channel. New sub. Thanks.
Great story on the Cyclops. I am going to see the Titanic exhibit this week in Seattle at the Maritime Building, so stoked.
Well done thank you!
seeing jittery old footage always makes me wonder why stabilization wasn't part of the restoration process
That captain was unhinged.
Cool video, you should do ones for ss marine sulphur queen, mv joyita and ss waratah