Prof. Feraboli. the 1st guy named is the one who set up the Lamborghini Composites Lab at U of Washington Seattle... along with some funding from Boeing (not a surprise since the lab is in the aeronautics dept. Very nice guy, who always answered my questions! "Forged Composites" or as a French competitor calls it "Carbone Forgé" is basically injection molded carbon fiber. The French Co who makes Carbone Forgé put the dry chopped carbon strands in to a mold, compress, then while under vacuum & heat in an autoclave inject the epoxy. If you read the paper (there's a 2nd one as well) Lamborghini experimented making carbon-tubs, suspension pieces like A-arms which proved to be stronger than the cast aluminum used now (there's pics of the parts) its strength basically comes from the random overlapping strands. If they add some graphene to the epoxy, they could make it stronger and lighter! Its the future of making carbon parts. Callaway golf invested too, although they use a metal face on the club, no ball touches the carbon, the body is made of forged carbon... the carbon-epoxy slurry is pumped in to a mold, a latex bladder is inflated to push the carbon against the mold & keep the part hollow. I think Lamborghini is still learning its strength & limits and is using it basically for cosmetic light parts at the moment. like the center console, A/C vents and dash & door trim.
@uhrwerks thanks for the added comment. Both Carbone Forgé and Lambo/Callaway talked about patent and pressing time which suggest that it is somewhat different than regular injection molded carbon fiber. Any insights on what are the main difference between Forged Carbon and Injection Molded carbon fiber? thank you
Prepreg is a fabric pre-impregnated with resin and typically stored in a freezer to postpone curing. “Forged carbon” comes in prepreg form as well. The major difference is cost. Manufacturers can use scrapes from the woven fabric to make the forged stuff. If they screw up a roll they can chop it up into small pieces and make it as well. Basically carbon fiber became super expensive because Boeing bought up just about every last inch of it to build the 777. Lamborghini felt the price increase. They have to use the woven prepreg for the structural parts including the tub because it’s much stronger. They had to find a way to cut costs on interior parts so they “invented” forged carbon and built it up to be this very special product. When it is in fact, cheaper, less durable and has far less strength. This is why Boeing doesn’t use it. The consumers stand in line like sheep and take it in the butt. Very similar to Alcantara. Alcantara is a weaker crappy fabric that stains and can’t be cleaned well and of course is way cheaper than leather but they charge 3 times more for it as an option.
This was really helpful. I will attempt to use forged CF for cosmetic or non load bearing parts, but stick with resin infusion with CF fabrics for anything structural or aerodynamic related. Especially anything the needs to flex in a specific direction. I am sure forged graphene is next which should be lighter and stronger than prepreg. Cheers!
Thanks for the info... Some lambo guys at the car meets are all up in it with their forged carbon... Would be great to tell them its just a generic version of real carbon fiber lmao..... That should get em feeling some type of way!
For those that don’t understand this. “FOrGeD cArBoN fIbEr” is nothing more than a selling term. It’s not an actual material that exists. The dude even says in this video it’s just chopped up strands of carbon fiber that’s dropped into a mold and hardened with resin. That’s not forging, the material itself is not cabaple of being forged, it is simply for vanity and nothing more. The parts Lamborghini makes using this process takes less effort and their customers are just too stupid to realize they’re paying top dollar for a half assed product. Anyone that actually understands and/or works with composite material will know this.
How is it a half assed product? Just because it's easier to make doesn't make it an inferior product, especially since they are mostly using it for aestethic reasons on trimp pieces and non-structural parts. If it's lighter than regular carbon then that would actually make it a superior product. Also, since it can be formed into much more complex shapes they have also used it for some really intricate parts such as the rear wings of the Huracan Performante and Aventador SVJ, which are hollow and integrates a really smart active aero system. Those wings would have to be made out of a blend of several materials if forged carbon didn't exist (or if it could be made out of regular CF the cost would be ridiculous for both Lamborghini and then ultimately the customer), which again makes the forged carbon a superior product than the alternative.
Forged Carbon Fiber is basically like particle board. Particle board is made by taking all the left over scrap pieces of wood that are normally just trash and mixing them all together with a resin and shaping it into a board. Forged Carbon Fiber is basically the same. They take the individual fibers that are normally woven into sheets of carbon fiber and instead of weaving them they’re chopped up into small pieces and those are laid into a mold with the resin that holds them together. That’s what gives Forged Carbon Fiber it’s unique look but also what makes it weaker than woven Carbon Fiber. It works good for trim or non structural pieces.
I think we can strike a balance here for forged carbon by using it on the doors, bonnet, bootlid, roof etc while using woven carbon-fibre for the monocoque. By doing this, car manufacturers can save a lot of time, money, energy and natural resources but at the same time, it won't affect the safety or the performance of the car.
Thanks for the info. I've heard from car owners that have forged carbon fiber parts that forged carbon fiber was stronger than traditional woven carbon fiber and more expensive to produce, but I guess those were all myths/hype.
The modulus is the relationship between stress and strain. Materials with higher modulus require more stress to produce the same amount of strain, so higher modulus = stiffer.
Great video! So appreciate the facts and details around the product! If I may add a small note for future videos, paying attention to the extra words like sort of or like a lot, it helps the listener if they are left out, but dude you killed it! Thanks so much for the video
They make these parts using factory waste. BMW has been doing this for a while with their carbon core 7 series and the i-series. What Lambo has done differently is polishing/sanding the part and applying a clear coat to make it more visually appealing.
Thank you so much, I was going to buy a cell phone case from a company called simply carbon fiber and they sell they're forged carbon fiber case $65 and they're regular carbon fiber case for $49 LOL I thought forged carbon fiber was stronger and they also mislead you with the ads so thank you very much for the educational post on RUclips LOL I'm 43 years old I should know better being that I'm into sports cars anyways thanks a lot sincerely mr. Marcus in Miami
Great explanation, good video too! One minor disagreement. “Don’t care about golf” the Callaway company Does make ‘souped up’ factory warranty Callaway corvettes. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them apply this new technology to the C8 Callayway corvette sometime soon
Amazed people think this is new or only 8 years old tech. Boeing got this from armory loven’s team outa RMI project..he developed it for his hyper car study and Boeing later contracted him for a study on some airline seat materials with reduced weight. The stuff you are seeing today is Isotopic layup , the cheaper/lazy version of this tech. They played with al kinds of methods, but went with a precise directional method. Last time I saw the equipment they where refining automated control the directional layup process got a patented process a few decades ago.
Looks/sounds to me like it's just reliant on the strength of the resin, which of course means it'll be much weaker. A cost comparison would've been useful because comparing carbon to 6000 series aluminum is kinda dumb when 7000 series T6s & T7s have more than double the strength of 6000. Forged carbon looks like the product of a recycling effort, like sump'm you'd use for packaging materials or sump'm like that. Good vid.
it actually isn't, it only depends on the curing pressures and the strand length 6 mm is the best length you can use pretty much any resin and it will perform the same
So from what I have seen, forged carbon fiber is more expensive than traditional carbon fiber. Yet traditional carbon fiber is twice as strong as forged. Is it just for the Lamborghini bragging rights?
well, the latest Lambo now has forged carbon connecting rods in it according to recent automotive news. should make for amazingly light internals, lower moment of inertia for the reciprocating parts, in shorts a faster revving motor. Also seeing forged carbon wheels coming to market so the technology is maturing.
Now i'm educated on this subject I can see that as usual the supercar channel dudes have no idea what forged carbon is as the almost faint over it on the latest cars.
So basically this fortified plastic. I 'm not being a smart ass. I can see all sorts of awesome uses for this because it appears to be lighter and stronger than some aluminum alloys. It also seem to be less heat dependent in the fabrication process. Any pot metal molding parts could benefit from this process.
Research = Wikipedia 😂 😂 I’ve seen watch maker using forged carbon before Lambo. Anyway. Personally I find it quite ugly. Look at the Bugatti Mansory full forged carbon body. Just hideous.
![How to Make a Forged Carbon Fiber Helmet [DIY] (Making Split Mold & Helmet)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z6gbHq8MGNE/mqdefault.jpg)
Prof. Feraboli. the 1st guy named is the one who set up the Lamborghini Composites Lab at U of Washington Seattle... along with some funding from Boeing (not a surprise since the lab is in the aeronautics dept. Very nice guy, who always answered my questions! "Forged Composites" or as a French competitor calls it "Carbone Forgé" is basically injection molded carbon fiber. The French Co who makes Carbone Forgé put the dry chopped carbon strands in to a mold, compress, then while under vacuum & heat in an autoclave inject the epoxy.
If you read the paper (there's a 2nd one as well) Lamborghini experimented making carbon-tubs, suspension pieces like A-arms which proved to be stronger than the cast aluminum used now (there's pics of the parts) its strength basically comes from the random overlapping strands. If they add some graphene to the epoxy, they could make it stronger and lighter! Its the future of making carbon parts. Callaway golf invested too, although they use a metal face on the club, no ball touches the carbon, the body is made of forged carbon... the carbon-epoxy slurry is pumped in to a mold, a latex bladder is inflated to push the carbon against the mold & keep the part hollow. I think Lamborghini is still learning its strength & limits and is using it basically for cosmetic light parts at the moment. like the center console, A/C vents and dash & door trim.
@uhrwerks thanks for the added comment. Both Carbone Forgé and Lambo/Callaway talked about patent and pressing time which suggest that it is somewhat different than regular injection molded carbon fiber. Any insights on what are the main difference between Forged Carbon and Injection Molded carbon fiber? thank you
Hey can I get a link to the paper?
Very well explained! Simple and concise, and with just the right amount of technical info. Keep up the good work!
- Composite technician
Thanks!
i guess I'm kinda off topic but does anyone know of a good site to watch new series online?
@Sincere Harrison I use flixzone. You can find it by googling :)
"forged carbon" while it sounds exotic, is really just the equivalent of chopped mat fiberglass vs cloth .
Agree
Prepreg is a fabric pre-impregnated with resin and typically stored in a freezer to postpone curing. “Forged carbon” comes in prepreg form as well. The major difference is cost. Manufacturers can use scrapes from the woven fabric to make the forged stuff. If they screw up a roll they can chop it up into small pieces and make it as well. Basically carbon fiber became super expensive because Boeing bought up just about every last inch of it to build the 777. Lamborghini felt the price increase. They have to use the woven prepreg for the structural parts including the tub because it’s much stronger. They had to find a way to cut costs on interior parts so they “invented” forged carbon and built it up to be this very special product. When it is in fact, cheaper, less durable and has far less strength. This is why Boeing doesn’t use it. The consumers stand in line like sheep and take it in the butt. Very similar to Alcantara. Alcantara is a weaker crappy fabric that stains and can’t be cleaned well and of course is way cheaper than leather but they charge 3 times more for it as an option.
thanks for explaining. Not many videos about the specifics of it.
For real
This was really helpful. I will attempt to use forged CF for cosmetic or non load bearing parts, but stick with resin infusion with CF fabrics for anything structural or aerodynamic related. Especially anything the needs to flex in a specific direction. I am sure forged graphene is next which should be lighter and stronger than prepreg. Cheers!
hmmmm
Dude, great exposition. Really appreciate this! Cheers!
Thanks for the info... Some lambo guys at the car meets are all up in it with their forged carbon... Would be great to tell them its just a generic version of real carbon fiber lmao..... That should get em feeling some type of way!
For those that don’t understand this. “FOrGeD cArBoN fIbEr” is nothing more than a selling term. It’s not an actual material that exists. The dude even says in this video it’s just chopped up strands of carbon fiber that’s dropped into a mold and hardened with resin. That’s not forging, the material itself is not cabaple of being forged, it is simply for vanity and nothing more. The parts Lamborghini makes using this process takes less effort and their customers are just too stupid to realize they’re paying top dollar for a half assed product. Anyone that actually understands and/or works with composite material will know this.
How is it a half assed product? Just because it's easier to make doesn't make it an inferior product, especially since they are mostly using it for aestethic reasons on trimp pieces and non-structural parts. If it's lighter than regular carbon then that would actually make it a superior product.
Also, since it can be formed into much more complex shapes they have also used it for some really intricate parts such as the rear wings of the Huracan Performante and Aventador SVJ, which are hollow and integrates a really smart active aero system. Those wings would have to be made out of a blend of several materials if forged carbon didn't exist (or if it could be made out of regular CF the cost would be ridiculous for both Lamborghini and then ultimately the customer), which again makes the forged carbon a superior product than the alternative.
I think your resentment is clouding your "thinking".
A mistake or 2 here or there but you did very good with the explanation. I personally work with carbon fiber regularly and you did pretty well👍
Forged Carbon Fiber is basically like particle board. Particle board is made by taking all the left over scrap pieces of wood that are normally just trash and mixing them all together with a resin and shaping it into a board. Forged Carbon Fiber is basically the same. They take the individual fibers that are normally woven into sheets of carbon fiber and instead of weaving them they’re chopped up into small pieces and those are laid into a mold with the resin that holds them together. That’s what gives Forged Carbon Fiber it’s unique look but also what makes it weaker than woven Carbon Fiber. It works good for trim or non structural pieces.
hm
I think we can strike a balance here for forged carbon by using it on the doors, bonnet, bootlid, roof etc while using woven carbon-fibre for the monocoque. By doing this, car manufacturers can save a lot of time, money, energy and natural resources but at the same time, it won't affect the safety or the performance of the car.
Thanks for the info. I've heard from car owners that have forged carbon fiber parts that forged carbon fiber was stronger than traditional woven carbon fiber and more expensive to produce, but I guess those were all myths/hype.
google "red forged carbon" you're welcome....
That is an excellent explanation. I was wondering bout the strength, rigidity, weight, and cost comparisons. Thanks for the video!
Amazing video man, keep it up :)
Awesome explanation!! Thanks
I know I’m late but can you put that journal in the bio?
So wich is the best?
honestly best vid on YT dealing with forged carbon....
Really nice 👍🏻 . You really explain very simple and well congrats buddy
I'm curious how it compares to other composites, especially currently used types?
Very useful bro.. expecting more like this
around 5:00 youre saying that Aluminium is stiffer than carbon. I think high tension modulus means low stiffness.
The modulus is the relationship between stress and strain. Materials with higher modulus require more stress to produce the same amount of strain, so higher modulus = stiffer.
Ha, he told you...lol
Great video! So appreciate the facts and details around the product! If I may add a small note for future videos, paying attention to the extra words like sort of or like a lot, it helps the listener if they are left out, but dude you killed it! Thanks so much for the video
Nice! everything I needed to hear!
Any chance you could attach a link to the report you found? I haven't been able to find a whole lot
www.quantumcomposites.com/pdf/papers/2011-ASC-montreal-forged-suspens.pdf
Yeah, Car Stuff thank you!! 👍🏼
Fantastic explanation!
Good job, got a subscribe from me! Glad that I got a video from a small channel recommended off of a giant channel.
They make these parts using factory waste. BMW has been doing this for a while with their carbon core 7 series and the i-series. What Lambo has done differently is polishing/sanding the part and applying a clear coat to make it more visually appealing.
Nice review! Keep up the good work!
Thanks Man! Amazing video!
Really like your videos! They're really analytical and informative! Keep it up!
Thanks! I haven't posted in a while but there is more to come...
Excellent video, perfect explanation!
never seen this guy before, someone else i like on youtube, keep up the good work
Thank you so much, I was going to buy a cell phone case from a company called simply carbon fiber and they sell they're forged carbon fiber case $65 and they're regular carbon fiber case for $49 LOL I thought forged carbon fiber was stronger and they also mislead you with the ads so thank you very much for the educational post on RUclips LOL I'm 43 years old I should know better being that I'm into sports cars anyways thanks a lot sincerely mr. Marcus in Miami
I said fuck it why not and still got the forged carbon cuz it looks sick asf
Wow man great job!
Thanks! I actually watched a bunch of your videos when I was buying my F30. Great content!
Great point about drilling holes
Is his head big or is that chair small🧐
Great explanation, good video too! One minor disagreement. “Don’t care about golf” the Callaway company Does make ‘souped up’ factory warranty Callaway corvettes. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them apply this new technology to the C8 Callayway corvette sometime soon
The brands are unrelated.
Lmao 🤣 I hope you don't still think these two brands have any connection besides name.
Thanks mate! Nice, that you spend time to really understand the things!.
Great video! You explained it really well.
Thanks for taking the time to explain
It's not comparable to Regular carbon fiber/steel in terms of strength, but what about its advantages over plastics?
Amazed people think this is new or only 8 years old tech. Boeing got this from armory loven’s team outa RMI project..he developed it for his hyper car study and Boeing later contracted him for a study on some airline seat materials with reduced weight. The stuff you are seeing today is Isotopic layup , the cheaper/lazy version of this tech. They played with al kinds of methods, but went with a precise directional method. Last time I saw the equipment they where refining automated control the directional layup process got a patented process a few decades ago.
Looks/sounds to me like it's just reliant on the strength of the resin, which of course means it'll be much weaker. A cost comparison would've been useful because comparing carbon to 6000 series aluminum is kinda dumb when 7000 series T6s & T7s have more than double the strength of 6000. Forged carbon looks like the product of a recycling effort, like sump'm you'd use for packaging materials or sump'm like that. Good vid.
hmmm
it actually isn't, it only depends on the curing pressures and the strand length
6 mm is the best length
you can use pretty much any resin and it will perform the same
awesome video . thank you sir
So from what I have seen, forged carbon fiber is more expensive than traditional carbon fiber. Yet traditional carbon fiber is twice as strong as forged. Is it just for the Lamborghini bragging rights?
Hurt my heart! I love forged! And wanted to get my car in full forged. My phone case is forged and it looks so nice! 😭
Thank you
well, the latest Lambo now has forged carbon connecting rods in it according to recent automotive news. should make for amazingly light internals, lower moment of inertia for the reciprocating parts, in shorts a faster revving motor. Also seeing forged carbon wheels coming to market so the technology is maturing.
sauce?
Great video
Great info
great video 👍
I thought cf was stiffer??
No cf is strong asf fcf is just a tad weaker in certain areas
@@BC_CARS X
Rhodesian Wojak mind explaining what “X” means our are you in one good ass trip
This guy has no idea what he’s talking about
Very informative. 👍🏼
How much do we love forged carbon to end up here.. LOL
Aston martin use to , on interior
We have it in the drone world as well.
Nice video 👍
it's the injectionmold version of carbon fiber.
very good .
Now i'm educated on this subject I can see that as usual the supercar channel dudes have no idea what forged carbon is as the almost faint over it on the latest cars.
*you deserve more subscribers - work on adding the video clips like everyone else -- script out your videos ... and get paid. :)*
So basically a more economical type of carbon fiber
The generic version of carbon fiber!
My question is why is it called "forged" carbon fiber
Marketing mostly. It's not really "forged" in the way that forged metals are.
Nice explanation. Not as strong. Had to be a catch.
So basically this fortified plastic. I 'm not being a smart ass. I can see all sorts of awesome uses for this because it appears to be lighter and stronger than some aluminum alloys. It also seem to be less heat dependent in the fabrication process. Any pot metal molding parts could benefit from this process.
Forged carbon is simply a gimmick to produce a "cool" look cosmetic finish end of !!
Research = Wikipedia 😂 😂
I’ve seen watch maker using forged carbon before Lambo.
Anyway. Personally I find it quite ugly.
Look at the Bugatti Mansory full forged carbon body. Just hideous.
actually Callaway approached Lamborghini with the forged carbon... and then they produced the Sesto Elemento
It's amazing how wrong you are on virtually every single technical point you tried to make.