Hegemony in about 3 minutes
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2024
- Hegemony in about 3 minutes
To support us on Patreon please head over here www.patreon.co...
Our website is here: 3minuteboardga...
And, if you just want to buy us a coffee for a good job, pop over here ko-fi.com/B0B2...
Designer,Vangelis Bagiartakis, Varnavas Timotheou,
Artist,Jakub Skop,
Publisher,Hegemonic Project Games
boardgamegeek....
3 minute board games theme Music by Vic Granell
Hegemony in about 3 minutes: • Hegemony in about 3 mi...
Hegemony in about 3 minutes: • Hegemony in about 3 mi...
"Americana" Kevin Macleod
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons...
incompetech.fi...
"Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act
1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use."
Sound effects from www.zapsplat.com
3 minute board games are J Carmichael and S Rodgers.
So, i mentioned in the review that i was reviewing the game based on its gameplay, not on its secondary function, that of being a teaching tool about how countries work. And the main reason for that is that 3 and a bit minutes are nowhere near enough time to go through the model and critique every single assumption it makes. And it's a lot. I am not a scrub when it comes to this sort of content either, I have a Masters Degree in Political Science and 15 years experience as a Government PR/Comms person handling NZ Government messaging. I'm not even going to start taking the model down in the comments either because it would be an exhaustive and extensive post to make.
I will say is that Hegemony presents "a model", but it is one that is full of self fulfilling prophecies, based on the games own over-engineering its mechanics to force a Neo-liberal status quo onto the game. This is fine in most regards, because if you are making a game like this you have to pick a model and stick with it, the issue comes when folks start talking about the game being factually correct about how the world works and not just a game to be played.
And if I'm going to pull one thread that entirely unravels the game as a teaching tool for how states work it is the State player. There is no state class in the real world. The way the state works in the game is a non-ideological counter weight to any variance in the game. A drag towards the middle in all regards. The State simply doesn't work this way in a democracy, when the capitalists are in power, the state doesn't suddenly make anti-capitalist policies to slow them down. Nope, they make more pro capitalist policies. Answering the question of "who is the state player really" blows open the games whole model. And to me, that left me with a very busy game that didn't really have much exciting moves or plays to make.
Cheers, and sorry for the essay. But at least it wasn't a full book.
fair, appreciate the post with a bit more explanation.
Hell ya. I couldn't have said it better myself and I study the State for a living in academia. This is why u my fav tabletop youtuber
Cheers Mr This is ok, lol
I’m really glad you left the comment. I’d love to have a beer, play something with you, and here you talk about politics.
"I'm not even going to start taking the model down in the comments either because it would be an exhaustive and extensive post to make. " could be a fun long video, idk. I found this comment interesting
Great review Jarrod and I very much appreciate your comments, which provide valuable context! I find the concept of this game so interesting but perhaps it's executed much better in RDR or Mr. President (still hoping you get a copy of the latter from GMT). Thx!
i love the idea of this game more than i want to play it, fascinating design
This is me too. I think the idea of Hegemony is intriguing. I think the gameplay loops you end up in are quite dull
I hear this
I do find the setting space enticing but it wants to be more than it is
I really like the voting system tho and it’s a lot more pro socialism than any American game would be
@@3MBG its been on my list for a while, but 3mbg giveth and 3mbg taketh away SLASHED
Interesting - I have played this game a lot and it has dramatically changed based on what players do. Sure you are generally wanting a similar goal with specific factions but the way you approach that goal changes based on cards you get and how other players behave. I find it very dynamic. I would say that it is very group dependent though.
Different folks will always have different experiences with a game. I can only report on our experiences and you may be correct. I do think the silo'd nature of Hegemony will always lead to a similarity in play, but the moment by moment play based on cards can be different for sure.
One reason I like games set in the modern real world is I have no idea if say, the Doge should get one or two cubes from the Catholic church but people have instant opinions and connections about stuff they know. I think it's fascinating that the middle class loses their sense of joy faster, because they can never truly compete with the capitalist class and constantly feel inadequate, and similarly their companies can't compete either. That mechanic would make Marx proud. Likewise I think it's interesting that the capitalists can lose and still be filthy rich. If only it were intentional, it's a pretty good way to teach anti-capitalist politics...apart from its insane pro-capitalist view of the state.
This really goes to show how it benefits everyone when the corporations take care of their workers. Turns out if you give people disposable income they feed it right back into the system they got it from.
Counterpoint, it also shows that no matter how well the workers do, there is no actual class mobility. When the capitalists lose a game of hegemony, they still own almost everything. They just have slightly fewer super yachts.
@@3MBG This is the biggest problem with the game for me as well, but I knew that going in, so I quite like it. I would love it to be more freeform, and, for example, allow the working class to do more about starting their own co-operatives, and really turning tables on the capitalists. It lets the working class build a couple of co-ops, but that's it, it very much keeps everyone in the moulds they started in. Keeping that in mind though, I think it's a very good execution of that. I actually got it with the intent to house rule things to allow that more freeform evolution; allow the possibility of the capitalist player losing their economic leverage. Haven't gotten round to that yet.
To be fair, if the lowest class has a bunch of stuff they still are the lowest class. I have explained this away in my teaches as the default growth that happens in the prep phase as the highest paid workers are now considered middle class, and the new worker class meeples are those kids that just entered the workforce. Now you may counter with yes, but the working class doesnt go down in pop. Yes that is correct, but we also dont simulate a higher death rate then birth rate ether.
I played it once as the capitalists. I had no idea why the workers wanted so many phones, but here you go.
LOL
Gotta get that new iPhone 37
So they can watch 3 Minute Board Game reviews on the go, obviously.
I've played this game twice, and that lack of dynamism I felt really held it back. I like games that have shared incentives, but more so than other games in this style, I felt like I could hand the game to another player without realizing it very early on.
I still have it unplayed, and I'm fearing it is not going to get played, because everybody already did it last year and now I'm late and everybody has moved on. And between 1/3 and 1/2 of the people I know that have played it say the same thing as you, that they felt forced to play what the game wants you to play, because the obvious move is the best move.
Hope to be in the other camp if I manage to play it, but is starting to sound not very probable.
Do you have tabletop simulator?
100% on point on the review!
Seeing your comments, do you have any political board games that reflects reality more accurately that you can recommend?
Not that I can think of. It's a very hard thing to model and the restrictions of being a board game means you just cant shake things up much at all. Not without horribly over complicating things. The closest i can think of is a PC game series, called Democracy. And even that has some funny ideas baked into as well. Nations are just.... so complex. It's not like running a car factory or a farm.
Did you say you would only recommend this to experienced gamers? Mate I am not an experienced gamer and I enjoyed this game. My first game was sort of a dud, because I was playing the middle class. Like you said the Middle class needs to work the jobs that the Capitalist provides. The problem with my first game is that the Capitalist never made jobs available because they didn't want to be in debt. they never took loans or anything which made my game harder to earn points. Second time round this game was fun. I think they best way to recommend this game, is IF certain gamers like to play these kind of games. Regardless of skill level. It wasn't that complicated when you played it. But I would say it takes a long time to teach the game and to read up the special cards they have provided.
Also after reading your pinned comment. I never took the political model too seriously. It's just a boardgame made under an assumption of the creator or whatever. Something like that would be too complicated to create and make it engaging enough to play. In all fairness, the subject matter doesn't bother me.
Well done for tackling this complex a game without much experience, that's not normal, lol. As for the political model, they include a big book in the box authored by 5 people with PHDs in politics. They make a really big deal about it. Now as a player, you might not have even seen that material. But it was the first thing i saw when i opened my box of the game.
I have to say this is more evidence for my theory that weightiness is very hard to actually pin down. I agree that the massive action list is tricky but this isn’t anything like the complexity of on mars or brass or a pax game. But that’s partly because there isn’t a huge decision space…
Like I think I could live a million years and be able to play brass but never understand it. This I could get most average college grads to play because it’s obvious what to do and when to do it,
" there isn’t a huge decision space…"
Nailed it. its busy, but its not really complex in terms of what you need to keep in your mind.
@@3MBG I actually don't mind that kind of design myself though. There's a few interesting choices and some interesting themes. I feel like the voting system is quite strong and want to see it in more games.
It goes back to my point about how Hegemony is really pitched in a way that flatters. Its busy but ultimately not deep, meaning people can engage with something that is sold to them as this deeply philosophical model of the inner workings of the state, but they get it, so they must be totes clever. It's a bit like a Joe Rogan or Jordan peterson, but for board games
That sums up the game pretty well. I feel it's interesting the first time you play each class but once you've done all of them there is little reason to get back to it.
I do like the amount of player interaction still.
You said, "My version has a solo mode." How many versions are there? From your review, it doesn't sound like the solo mode would be fun, but maybe it has some additional rules that make it enjoyable to make a wider variety of moves. Thanks for the review.
I got my 2nd hand, and its one of the kickstarter versions that has fancy components and the solo mode. The retail version doesn't.
Winner by vote of 3 golden geek awards among others, don't you love democracy? 😘
"Other people like it" has never been a good enough reason for me to like something.
@@3MBG for you and for most reasonable people, agreed. The thing is I think you went into this game wanting to dislike it.
As mentioned in my pinned comment, i did read the politics book they included with the game and did see their marketing before playing the game, so yes, i was primed to see exactly how their very particular world view, which is that Neo-liberal crony capitalism is the natural state of man would play out.
So yes, they gave me a whole book to read to make me dislike the game before i even moved a piece. I'm not sure that's a problem though, especially as I'm very open about it and i consider the marketing and support materials in the box part of the game for purposes of review.
You can dismiss my views on the very limited and siloed gameplay that have very few decisions because i don't like the overall model and philosophy of the game, if that makes you feel more comfortable and less challenged. I don't control you and your feelings.
But for me, its a game about going through the motions where nothing really changes. At the end of the game the workers are still divorced from their labor, the middle class still desperately trying to go upwards but utterly incapable of actually moving, and the capitalists always win, regardless of what the score in the game is. The capitalists game is deciding if they can afford 10 super yachts or 5 at the end of the game. And the whole state player exists because of a very weird ideological choice, almost any political scientist you could find would tell you how laughable having the state have all that agency is.
Its quite a silly game when you look at it that way. So yes, being a political science academic with 15 years service in the NZ Defence force and public service may have primed me to be suss of the game, but it also gave me the tools and experience to see through the BS to the actual model and be more critical of the game than most.
If the game and its fans can't handle this small level of critique, not much i can do about it. But i am entirely, 100% unapologetic for having this perspective and experience.
Do you define your political views as "leftist" ? As it seems that way after watching many of your videos. But you never made it official, so it can only be my assumption. I'm asking purely to judge if this model - presented in game - will "offend" me as much as you?
I am what you would call a democratic socialist. I believe in proportional representation and easy access to voting, a reduction of corporate influence in politics through lobbying and donations, and policies that generally help more people than fewer. So yeah, quite left wing. And I have been quite open about it, i even announced that Steph was running as a candidate for the Green party in NZ last year on the channel. So we're not just left wing, we're actively engaged in politics. Steph is technically about 2-3 resignations away from being in parliament at the moment.
My issue with the model though is more than that, its starts with the absolute fantasy that the state is an actor independent of class politics. I think any game about the inner workings of the state that has the state having its own agenda is just starting off with an almost conspiracy theorist way of thinking, and everything else in the model is fruit of the poisonous tree.
What a nightmare of a game!…
It certainly can be
Getting vibes that you play this once or twice and you get it. Sort of like Votes for Women where you can only stretch the game play so much. But there's obviously mechanical differences. I been wanting this game but now I feel alot less inclined. It begs the question: why is it so high on BGG then?
I'm honestly not so sure. I think VFW has a much more open gamespace than Hegemony, but i get where you are coming from there. All our games of Hegemony just seems so rote.
@@3MBG I haven't played VFW but I hear you. I'm gonna just look for a second hand copy of Hegemony and not prioritize it. I really wanna know what brought this up to like spot 90s on BGG. Yes yes there's a lot of factors that help games shoot up the charts these days (I can't believe how many games have been dethroned from even just the top 200 in the past two years) and it could just be that BG are now more exposed to a greater audience and the newest hype is getting the most votes, reviews and exposure. A solid game from dinosaur era of board gaming where only a handful titles made interest had only garnered only so much aggregate scoring, but now we live in an era of "pre scoring" where games haven't even come out yet, or haven't been thoroughly played enough to earn a proper score. It's not like a game like Spirit Island where you and I can give a definite score from our experience because, like you, I've played it A LOT. Maybe not as much as you have J, but byfar more than what most reviewers or gamers that are throwing scores up on BGG for the latest trendy game.
There's a reviewer on BGG that has a review style I prefer. He goes by "After ten plays" and I think he is based in Europe. Now if he gave Hegemony a score I'd take it more to heart because it sounds like it was given a fair shot for the price. But I can't say with certainty for the rest. I think people have moved on from it already and are waiting for Hegemony: World Order...
But then there's Slay the Spire the Board Game!!! And I give it a 10/10/10/10, clearly not biased 😁😁😁 let's take it to top 50! I digress. I appreciate your criticism of Hegemony. I'll just wait for a good deal on it. It's not like I'm running out to find Dominant Species because it held #70s for a long while- oh it's down to 90 now. Heh.
I think it makes people feel smart when they play it. The whole package of the game is designed to flatter the ego and make you feel like you are taking part in a very intellectual activity. I'm not sure I've played a game that sets out more clearly to make tell its players how clever and interesting they are for choosing to play a smart game like Hegemony instead of something else. It's also novel in many regards, and if you look at the game superficially, it is very very clever. As i said elsewhere, i don't have the time or inclination to write a thesis about exactly why Hegemony's model is bunk, but it is a model that very much panders to a specific world view.
That said, there are plenty of popular and well rated games that don't click with me. SO it could very well just be that I'm not in tune with its zeitgeist.
Very disingenuous comment, my friend. Seems like you have some weird bias that this game exists. I think it’s good, not life changing, but to say people only play it to “feel” smart is some next level asshole-ishness.
Not remotely disingenuous, and if i have a bias against the game it is spelled out in my pinned comment. The model they use is full of holes and yet is presented as gospel truth about how the world works. I also say i simply might not get the game at all, and that's fine. A little bit of news for you though, all reviews are biased. Every single one. Because they are opinion.
Hegemony really likes to present itself as fact. There's the root of my bias, and I've not remotely hidden that.
If my comment about the game being marketed in a way to flatter egos has offended you personally, perhaps you should reflect on why a comment about a games marketing has upset you instead of trying to make a personal attack on me.
Theme alone has always made this game a hard pass for me, matter how well designed it is. I don't really want to simulate the hellscape of society's problems in my free time.
Fair
Except here it’s not massively rigged by Rupert Murdoch!
I would find it fun and I would be a satire of the class I’m playing.
I just don't think i need to go from my corporate job to playing capitalism the board game. Hard pass just based on theme for me