I watched this video yesterday to learn how to disassemble the exact same engine. One the wires powering the motor had come loose and needed to be resoldered. Low and behold today I was attempting to run my City of Bradford engine and it stopped running. The motor was turning but the train wasn't moving. First thing I checked was the wheels-they were turning easily a sign that the drive cog was not engaging! At least I now know how to fix the damn thing thanks to this video!
A good idea would be to warm the plastic gear before pressing it on the shaft. Dip it in hot water to soften it slightly so the splines on the shaft cut into it instead of trying to spread the gear and cracking it.
I have had 1 cracked gear in a flying scotsman i had to fix and a mainline (from memory) class 45 loco 16 wheel diesel (i think its a 45 class) and the same in a yellow pullman I bought from the UK a year or so ago on ebay. Its only the gear thats broken in the yellow nose pullman so its a relatively easy fix for a great condition set. Also Great words of wisdom and thankyou for your awesome videos you put on youtube for us to watch and enjoy and learn from so thankyou. Cheers from John in Australia.
An excellent video, nice step by step, Hornby web site has become a lot better for reference material such as the service sheets. What a lucky surprise we the decoder. Great to see it running in the rolling road, with the moving back drop. 🤣 thanks again for the video. All best marc
Very well and clearly presented - I've had similar issues over the last few years with several locomotives. Generally, it's just the gripping onto the splined part of the axle, gear not even split. Just to mention, Ultrascale make brass equivalent gears - will never happen again. Al.
Hi Rob, great video all round as it shows the guts of a couple of my loco drive patients that need minor surgery! 👨⚕️ Funnily enough, have an older 8F and a newer Royal Scot that have exactly this problem 🤔 Cheers mate 🍀👍🍻
Nice one Rob, a little bit of effort and a great looking loco in return. Split gears is a common problem with Farish N-gauge locos, so I know exactly what you were doing. Thanks. Jim L
Cracked gears are not uncommon in model locomotives. The immediate cause is that model was subjected to temperature too cold for the fit between the gear and axle. The Engineering behind this is not difficult but it is tedious. The plastic has a larger CTE than the metal and as the system gets colder, the gear tries to contract around the axle. Eventually the stress in the gear is too much resulting in failure. If the fit between the gear and axle is too loose, at warmer temperatures it will just spin. There is a very small sweet spot.
Hi Rob......Des from Australia.Thoughly enjoyed your video re Tornado.I didn't have your problem ,mine was to do with the motor.As your probably aware it comes with a three pole motor as this model came out during Hornby's budget phase and although the model is not bad the operation was a little to be desired....ie stopping,starting braking etc.I exchanged the motor for a standard 5 pole motor available either as a spare from Peter's Spares or on ebay.I managed to track one down though a local hobby shop in Melbourne Vic.....Not a cheap fix but better than paying the horrendous postage/freight charges from the UK.The con version was not hard and the running characteristics were second to none.Just thought I would touch base and tell you how much I enjoyed your post.Regards Des Davis from Oz.
My Hornby Standard Class 4MT recently developed a cracked gear and have had to take it out of service as no spare gears are available for it. Great video all the same!
Good vid, glad it was an easy repair :) Yeah it is a common problem, we've fixed loads of them here (or sent them back under warranty repair depending on the age of the model)
Thanks for a great video which inspired me to repair my Hornby Stanier 2-6-4 tank. By the way anyone with similar problems with that loco might like to know that the gear set x6346 for Tornado will fit.
Nice loco. You were lucky to have the gear already 😀 because with shipping costs it might have been around 10 pounds. Fantastic repair by the way 👍 I would probably not have been able to fix this
Nice one Rob, looks like you've had a result there mate👍 Graham Farish locos went through a spate of split gears about 10 years ago, not good considering the cost.
Nice job fixing that loco. The plastic gears contain oil in the plastic and when the gears dry out, they split. I've lost count of how many gears I have changed on Graham Farish locos. You got a good bargain with that loco.
Thanks Raymond. Someone else was saying that Graham Farish suffered really badly with cracked gears for a period. I suppose it's like a lot of plastics that get brittle with age.
@@LittleWicketRailway what I mean mate in my opinion the manufacturers should never have change from brass to plastic this is what happens modern cheap materials
Nice video Rob I took a punt on a non runner County of Brenock it had exactly the same issue cracked gear, though I didn’t change the gear but rather the wheel set Guess I will get the spare drive gear and have a spare set of wheels once again 👍🏻
I noticed you used a lubricating pen to oil the parts before trying it on the rolling road. But was it synthetic oil. if not. you are likely to get that problem again some time. thats probably the reason why the gear split in the first place. I used to sell those pubs pens but to the best of my knowledge they contained mineral oil. The plastic is also from a mineral source so it effectively ingests the oil. like a sponge. and the plastic becomes brittle. Using a synthetic oil solves this problem. Peco used to be the only company who sold synthetic oil. But since I retired that may have changed. ive been out of the business for 8 years.
A nice running engine for GBP 45, with a DCC decoder... worth an hour or two of work to make it running ! About broken gears, the first black five from Hornby I bought (new) had a broken drivetrain, the motor ran but the wheels did not turned. Replaced by a working one due to warranty. Plastic sprockets are prone to breaking, there is an aftermarket replacement with metal one, I hope someone is interested into selling such an item.
Glad that your got your Black 5 working, I've always found Hornby to be quite good with resolving issues. How do you like the model? Someone in the comments has directed me to Ultrascale who make metal gears and another comment said he 3D prints his own which he thinks are more reliable.
@@LittleWicketRailway Honestly, I like my Black Five, in spite of its age. It's a nice looking engine (mine si in LMS black) and runs nicely. It's one of my first OO engine bought, that also have an importance... I take the idea to buy ultrascale metal gears as replacement for worn out plastic gears, worth the price for fair and good models which are better in operational use thant to become shelf queens.
hi there. not again. hornby quality is a sham, plastic gears what next. my old Triang locos have brass gears, have you made a complaint to hornby ? great video and imformative
Thanks Peter, it does sound like a few people have had cracked gears. I can't really complain to Hornby as I got this at a flea market, so don't know what the model has been through, but I think maybe Hornby should consider metal gears. Or potentially they could mould the gear onto the axel as a single piece? Can't slip if it's a single pieice of metal.
Have restored and repaired model railroad locomotives for many years now and, because gears a a VERY common problem...especially cracked gears...and postage to Australia id ludicrous for such small and light items, I now have a range of gears on hand from a 3D printer...They often need minor adjustment before fitting but work well enough and tend to be a bit stronger than the factory fitted items. Also, they do not seem so effected by heat.
I think cracked gears in hornby locomotives was due to a certain lubricant that they put onto them, it was very common I think a few years ago but they don’t use that lubricant now and as a result we don’t see this happening on today’s models.
Dear Sir, Methinks Sam's Trains' Mr. Sam just produced the connecting gear to this one with a 3D printer. Interesting enough, only by seeing your video i fully understood what he was doing, as me local models provider does not use this kind of mechanism. Cheers from Brazil!
Hi Eugenio! I love Sams Trains and I need to go check this video out. I saw Sam had printed a wagon, but it's pretty cool if you can print your own replacement parts too. My 3D printer is still in the box. I might have to get it out and give it a go! (It's so cool have have a viewer from Brazil!)
Touch wood, I've not burned out a motor (yet), but I've definitely put models back together wrong before. It's not until you've taken it apart that you realise just how many parts are involved 😳 The drop link was the wrong way round on my princess class video (I still maintain it was like that when I got it!), but even though it's a tiny part a few people still spotted it was wrong.
It's pretty obvious that is why you check the wheel assembly moves freely before you fit the motor. The detail that was the surprise for me was the intermediate gear. I do wonder how that is kept in place.
I have to admit I expected that the gear would have the teeth shredded - I had a Jinty like it. My old Tri-ang locos (50+ years old) never have this trouble and still run fine, although the accuracy of the superstructure and wheel profiles leaves something to be desired!
My Tornado was afflicted by intermittent running and it transpired that the motor had developed too much end float which resulted in the worm drive gear moving too much and jamming the gear train. Problem solved by fitting a new motor that comes with new gear and counterweight already fitted. Common issue apparently!😎🇦🇺👍
Sounds like these Tornado model have a few common issues. I've got back up motors in the spares box just in case something like that happens. Thanks for sharing 👍
Definitely check out Amazon. Under £50 recently. Prices change by the day though. And if you'd like to buy it through my Amazon shop then I'd be very grateful ( www.amazon.co.uk/shop/LittleWicketRailway ) 😁
@@LittleWicketRailway It might be less noisy if they are plastic. Otherwise it would seem criminal to have such expensive models so vulnerable to the failure of a bit of plastic.
@@LittleWicketRailway How much extra would a metal gear cost? I suspect that it'd only be a few pence, if mass produced on the scale Hornby would need them.
@@AndyM_323YYY Older (Triang) Hornby locos with X04 motors had metal gears and were no more noisy than todays locos (except for the ones with knurled wheels).
@@LittleWicketRailway I suspect that the worm is metal so as to act as a small flywheel. A plastic worm would have less mass, giving a smaller flywheel effect. I'm surprised that no manufacturer has thought of using a larger diameter metal worm instead of (or in addition to) a flywheel.
Made that look easy. Thanks. Great vid
I watched this video yesterday to learn how to disassemble the exact same engine. One the wires powering the motor had come loose and needed to be resoldered. Low and behold today I was attempting to run my City of Bradford engine and it stopped running. The motor was turning but the train wasn't moving. First thing I checked was the wheels-they were turning easily a sign that the drive cog was not engaging! At least I now know how to fix the damn thing thanks to this video!
A good idea would be to warm the plastic gear before pressing it on the shaft. Dip it in hot water to soften it slightly so the splines on the shaft cut into it instead of trying to spread the gear and cracking it.
Tornado saved from the grave. Well done.
Thanks Steve! 👍
I have had 1 cracked gear in a flying scotsman i had to fix and a mainline (from memory) class 45 loco 16 wheel diesel (i think its a 45 class) and the same in a yellow pullman I bought from the UK a year or so ago on ebay.
Its only the gear thats broken in the yellow nose pullman so its a relatively easy fix for a great condition set.
Also Great words of wisdom and thankyou for your awesome videos you put on youtube for us to watch and enjoy and learn from so thankyou.
Cheers from John in Australia.
Cheers John. Sounds like these cracked gears aren't too uncommon then.
I had a cracked axle gear on my Hornby King Arthur..Fixed and going well now. Best wishes Paul
I have that model so is certainly something to keep an eye on, thanks for the information.
Cheers Rob.
Thanks Rob 👍
Nice job fixing that.
Thanks 👍
First time subscriber loved ya video pal ...Will have a binge watch at weekend 👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks Dylan 👍 Hope you enjoy the weekend binge!
Great job on the repair that was very entertaining. Nice looking and great running locomotive now. Good on ya mate👍.
Thanks David 👍
An excellent video, nice step by step, Hornby web site has become a lot better for reference material such as the service sheets. What a lucky surprise we the decoder. Great to see it running in the rolling road, with the moving back drop. 🤣 thanks again for the video. All best marc
Very well and clearly presented - I've had similar issues over the last few years with several locomotives.
Generally, it's just the gripping onto the splined part of the axle, gear not even split.
Just to mention, Ultrascale make brass equivalent gears - will never happen again.
Al.
Thanks Alan, I'll check out the Ultrascale replacements 👍
Hi Rob, great video all round as it shows the guts of a couple of my loco drive patients that need minor surgery! 👨⚕️ Funnily enough, have an older 8F and a newer Royal Scot that have exactly this problem 🤔
Cheers mate 🍀👍🍻
Thanks Tim. Sounds like a pretty common issue. Good luck with the repairs 👍
Great that you managed to fix it, great video and a useful tutorial- Mark
Thanks Mark 👍
Nice one Rob, a little bit of effort and a great looking loco in return. Split gears is a common problem with Farish N-gauge locos, so I know exactly what you were doing. Thanks. Jim L
This has become such an issue on some Australian models from similar factories that third parties now sell replacement gears.
It sounds like 3D printing your own is also an option. I can't believe that you guys in Aus don't get better service.
Good repair. Did similar to a mainline warship. Thanks for showing. Regards Paul. 🚂🚂🚂
Thank you, very helpful.
Excellent video. Very intuitive and easy to follow. Pleased it's working for you and well done.
Thanks Tim 👍
Great video thanks for info i have to kee eye on my hornby locos...would of like to see it run on your layout
Well done I have 2 a Green one and an Express Blue one Both with DCC Sound Both with this problem straight from the Factory!!
From the factory!?! That's bad! I bet the blue looks lovely though.
Very efficiently repaired!
Nice work rob glad to see it alive and well 👍
Cheers Ciaran 👍
Cracked gears are not uncommon in model locomotives. The immediate cause is that model was subjected to temperature too cold for the fit between the gear and axle. The Engineering behind this is not difficult but it is tedious. The plastic has a larger CTE than the metal and as the system gets colder, the gear tries to contract around the axle. Eventually the stress in the gear is too much resulting in failure. If the fit between the gear and axle is too loose, at warmer temperatures it will just spin. There is a very small sweet spot.
Nice explanation Nigel 👌
@@LittleWicketRailway
I hate you
I’ve had the same problem with plastic gears on N gauge locos from Bachman.
Hi Rob......Des from Australia.Thoughly enjoyed your video re Tornado.I didn't have your problem ,mine was to do with the motor.As your probably aware it comes with a three pole motor as this model came out during Hornby's budget phase and although the model is not bad the operation was a little to be desired....ie stopping,starting braking etc.I exchanged the motor for a standard 5 pole motor available either as a spare from Peter's Spares or on ebay.I managed to track one down though a local hobby shop in Melbourne Vic.....Not a cheap fix but better than paying the horrendous postage/freight charges from the UK.The con version was not hard and the running characteristics were second to none.Just thought I would touch base and tell you how much I enjoyed your post.Regards Des Davis from Oz.
My Hornby Standard Class 4MT recently developed a cracked gear and have had to take it out of service as no spare gears are available for it. Great video all the same!
Good vid, glad it was an easy repair :) Yeah it is a common problem, we've fixed loads of them here (or sent them back under warranty repair depending on the age of the model)
Thanks Tony 👍 Glad to hear I'm not alone. I wonder if Hornby have considered metal gears.
Thanks for a great video which inspired me to repair my Hornby Stanier 2-6-4 tank. By the way anyone with similar problems with that loco might like to know that the gear set x6346 for Tornado will fit.
Nice loco. You were lucky to have the gear already 😀 because with shipping costs it might have been around 10 pounds. Fantastic repair by the way 👍 I would probably not have been able to fix this
Erik you simply must come to England one day lots of decent model bargains for Persley 😊
Very enjoyable video
Nice one Rob, looks like you've had a result there mate👍 Graham Farish locos went through a spate of split gears about 10 years ago, not good considering the cost.
Spoiler alert! Well I should thank you for saving me some time. Not helping viewing figs though!
Haha 🤣 but don't you want to know how I fixed it? It's not the destination, but the journey that matters...or something like that 🙄🤷🏼♂️
Nice job fixing that loco. The plastic gears contain oil in the plastic and when the gears dry out, they split. I've lost count of how many gears I have changed on Graham Farish locos. You got a good bargain with that loco.
Should stick to brass gears
Thanks Raymond. Someone else was saying that Graham Farish suffered really badly with cracked gears for a period. I suppose it's like a lot of plastics that get brittle with age.
Do brass replacements exist?
@@LittleWicketRailway what I mean mate in my opinion the manufacturers should never have change from brass to plastic this is what happens modern cheap materials
Excellent video thankyou
Thanks Mark 👍
Nice video Rob I took a punt on a non runner County of Brenock it had exactly the same issue cracked gear, though I didn’t change the gear but rather the wheel set
Guess I will get the spare drive gear and have a spare set of wheels once again 👍🏻
Never a bad thing to have spares.
I noticed you used a lubricating pen to oil the parts before trying it on the rolling road. But was it synthetic oil. if not. you are likely to get that problem again some time. thats probably the reason why the gear split in the first place. I used to sell those pubs pens but to the best of my knowledge they contained mineral oil. The plastic is also from a mineral source so it effectively ingests the oil. like a sponge. and the plastic becomes brittle. Using a synthetic oil solves this problem. Peco used to be the only company who sold synthetic oil. But since I retired that may have changed. ive been out of the business for 8 years.
Well done! What a lovely bargain. Lucky it wasn't N gauge. That is my problem.
A nice running engine for GBP 45, with a DCC decoder... worth an hour or two of work to make it running !
About broken gears, the first black five from Hornby I bought (new) had a broken drivetrain, the motor ran but the wheels did not turned. Replaced by a working one due to warranty.
Plastic sprockets are prone to breaking, there is an aftermarket replacement with metal one, I hope someone is interested into selling such an item.
Glad that your got your Black 5 working, I've always found Hornby to be quite good with resolving issues. How do you like the model?
Someone in the comments has directed me to Ultrascale who make metal gears and another comment said he 3D prints his own which he thinks are more reliable.
@@LittleWicketRailway Honestly, I like my Black Five, in spite of its age. It's a nice looking engine (mine si in LMS black) and runs nicely. It's one of my first OO engine bought, that also have an importance...
I take the idea to buy ultrascale metal gears as replacement for worn out plastic gears, worth the price for fair and good models which are better in operational use thant to become shelf queens.
hi there. not again. hornby quality is a sham, plastic gears what next. my old Triang locos have brass gears, have you made a complaint to hornby ? great video and imformative
Thanks Peter, it does sound like a few people have had cracked gears. I can't really complain to Hornby as I got this at a flea market, so don't know what the model has been through, but I think maybe Hornby should consider metal gears. Or potentially they could mould the gear onto the axel as a single piece? Can't slip if it's a single pieice of metal.
Have restored and repaired model railroad locomotives for many years now and, because gears a a VERY common problem...especially cracked gears...and postage to Australia id ludicrous for such small and light items, I now have a range of gears on hand from a 3D printer...They often need minor adjustment before fitting but work well enough and tend to be a bit stronger than the factory fitted items. Also, they do not seem so effected by heat.
That's a great idea Frank! Did you design your own replacements?
I think cracked gears in hornby locomotives was due to a certain lubricant that they put onto them, it was very common I think a few years ago but they don’t use that lubricant now and as a result we don’t see this happening on today’s models.
The model was well lubricated, so maybe that was part of it.
Nice video 👍
Thanks 👍
Dear Sir,
Methinks Sam's Trains' Mr. Sam just produced the connecting gear to this one with a 3D printer. Interesting enough, only by seeing your video i fully understood what he was doing, as me local models provider does not use this kind of mechanism.
Cheers from Brazil!
Hi Eugenio! I love Sams Trains and I need to go check this video out. I saw Sam had printed a wagon, but it's pretty cool if you can print your own replacement parts too. My 3D printer is still in the box. I might have to get it out and give it a go! (It's so cool have have a viewer from Brazil!)
Amazing. Putting the motion back would be a nightmare. Get it wrong, motion jams and motor burns out.
Touch wood, I've not burned out a motor (yet), but I've definitely put models back together wrong before. It's not until you've taken it apart that you realise just how many parts are involved 😳 The drop link was the wrong way round on my princess class video (I still maintain it was like that when I got it!), but even though it's a tiny part a few people still spotted it was wrong.
It's pretty obvious that is why you check the wheel assembly moves freely before you fit the motor. The detail that was the surprise for me was the intermediate gear. I do wonder how that is kept in place.
Nice job
Nick Australia
Thanks Nick 👍
I have to admit I expected that the gear would have the teeth shredded - I had a Jinty like it. My old Tri-ang locos (50+ years old) never have this trouble and still run fine, although the accuracy of the superstructure and wheel profiles leaves something to be desired!
great vid!
Thanks 👍
shame they dont still do the gears in brass or the upgrades.
My Tornado was afflicted by intermittent running and it transpired that the motor had developed too much end float which resulted in the worm drive gear moving too much and jamming the gear train. Problem solved by fitting a new motor that comes with new gear and counterweight already fitted. Common issue apparently!😎🇦🇺👍
Sounds like these Tornado model have a few common issues. I've got back up motors in the spares box just in case something like that happens. Thanks for sharing 👍
The one guy who dislikes this video is the bloke who sold the model cheap on ebay and now realises it could have been fixed.
😂 Or the chap who makes the gears at Hornby 😂
@@LittleWicketRailway Plastic or type of plastic used has it's limits. These gears were made of brass years ago and never gave any problems.
I have a loco with a brass worm gear which has stripped
the plastic drive cog
Not ideal 😮 I wonder how that happened? Wheels stopped, motor kept going?
There's always a risk that there are trains that don't want to be Rescued!
I think this is the most thought provoking comment I've ever had 🤔
Hi Rob I have a hornby fowler 264 tank loco and this also has a split gear on the axle
Common on hornby from tanks to pacifics, not just recent editions either.
i really need to pick up a rolling road already
Cheapest place I’ve seen it was amazon but look around 👍🏻
Definitely check out Amazon. Under £50 recently. Prices change by the day though. And if you'd like to buy it through my Amazon shop then I'd be very grateful ( www.amazon.co.uk/shop/LittleWicketRailway ) 😁
@@LittleWicketRailway Your link is broken - it includes the bracket at the end. www.amazon.co.uk/shop/LittleWicketRailway
is the correct link
@@gamerdruid7605 thanks! Fixed! Can't even promote my own shop correctly, how embarrasssing :-/
Where is your layout?
In bubble wrap awaiting rebuild, but wood prices and track availability are hindering progress.
do you are video of the tornadoes expressed web the front wheels comes up
Ive had broken gears on the hornby 73's
Seems like a few people have experienced cracked gears. Hope you managed to get it fixed up.
@@LittleWicketRailway I got I fixed up, thanks for asking.
Incorrect lubricant can cause this too. Had to replace many a Scalextric pinion gear for this reason.
Similar to Sam’sTrains video recently, I like these kind of videos and I like how more are popping up
Sam's Trains is a legend. I still need to catch up on his more recent videos, but I saw he hit 100k subs which is just incredible!
The exact same thing happened to me with my hornby tornado the motor spun put the wheels didn't turn
Did you manage to fix it?
@@LittleWicketRailway yeah it was the exact same problem as yours
Go to the Hornby train shop in Manchester near the Metrolinc
Ive has this with hornby p2
Well worth buy for £45
Love a bargain 😀
Shame I’ve only just watched this. I changed the wheels on an 0-4-0 re assembled it only to discover I got the quartering wrong.
I've been there. Nothing like learning the hard way.
Do a video fighting Scotsman
I have a new Flying Scotsman on pre-order from Hornby. When it comes out I will make a video 👍
What's needed is someone with watchmaking skills to produce that gear in brass.
Seems odd that some gears, such as the worm are metal, but the rest aren't. Suppose it's cost.
@@LittleWicketRailway It might be less noisy if they are plastic. Otherwise it would seem criminal to have such expensive models so vulnerable to the failure of a bit of plastic.
@@LittleWicketRailway How much extra would a metal gear cost? I suspect that it'd only be a few pence, if mass produced on the scale Hornby would need them.
@@AndyM_323YYY Older (Triang) Hornby locos with X04 motors had metal gears and were no more noisy than todays locos (except for the ones with knurled wheels).
@@LittleWicketRailway I suspect that the worm is metal so as to act as a small flywheel. A plastic worm would have less mass, giving a smaller flywheel effect. I'm surprised that no manufacturer has thought of using a larger diameter metal worm instead of (or in addition to) a flywheel.
cracked gears,funny that the old wrenn and triang models never had this problem,why these models?...................jpj
You buy some crap and I'd expect no more from a labour supporter
Hit dislike by accident😮
Oh no 😢 hopefully you actually liked the video 😀
@@LittleWicketRailway Yes indeed! Keep em coming please.