One time I was doing stage front security at a family friendly music festival. One of the EDM artist was furious because the border police denied entry into the country to his brother due to legal reasons. So some how during his set he did something to crank up the volume louder than I have ever experienced before. I am pretty sure the mixer guys are in charge of the volume so I don't know what happened. I have been stage security at all kinds of metal and EDM shows and never felt pain like this. Even with ear plugs it felt like someone was trying to tighten sharp little screws into my ear drums. I could not withstand that pain without plugging my ears physically with both hands. I was forcing little kids under 12 that were trying to come near the stage to either put on ear plugs or back up during his set.
This is real problem, and that’s mostly why decibel limits are put in place (other than not bothering neighbors). I usually have packs of earplugs I give out to people at festivals, especially young kids.
@@theproductionacademy Wouldn't it be better quality to play the music at a level that doesn't require plugging ears. Earplugs not only reduce the volume, but in doing so they also distort the audio spectrum contour. Lets pay our hard earned money to wear earplugs that distort the audio spectrum contour so we can listen to music. No thanks.
@@alstu9492 If the music is quieter, then the difference between the audience and the music is smaller. I can't get a crowd to quiet down, but I can put in earplugs.
Nice video, but take care folks. If you have 100db-A at your mixer position some 30 meters away from stage, you easy have +120dB-C up front in the audience. And since we are more tolerent to high levels after just a few drinks, this can be dangerous to your hearing. At rockconcerts, alwayss use dB-C! We are here to give people a good and maybe loud experience, not to damage their health.
I have a very practical question. In a place I semi-regularly go to the rule is max 100dbA and max 115dbC. They are pretty attentive to those rules so the music is always within 0.5db of the limit. My question is, do I need to take special precautions specifically because of the high bass? I already wear foam plugs, but does the high dbC warrant other protective measures? what if it was 100dbA and 120dbC? or more....
You're far less likely to incur hearing damage from the low frequencies. That's great you're using the foam plugs, just make sure to be very diligent about keeping them in and making sure you have a good seal in your ear canal (like, not using them only halfway in). There's not much more you can do beyond that, and you should be fine. That said, there's always SOME risk from being around loud music... just make sure you are staying careful.
Thank you! I only have a dB(A) meter, what do you guess is the difference in dB when using full spectrum noise vs dB(C)? Shows db(C) +6 dB or even more difference?
Thanks for this video Scott! What about sound level calibration now? For a multi-channel mix (home cinema in a dedicated room, in my case), should a measurement be made in dBA or in dBC to calibrate the levels? The bass is increasingly used in today's mixes. Is it better to concentrate on the part above 1000hz (voice of the actors) and therefore measure in dBA with its sound level meter or on the contrary it is necessary to take into account the bass and use the dBC? What is your opinion? Many thanks! François
I'd say you should take measurements in both dBA and dBC. As long as you understand the difference, you can use that information however you wish. But for balancing levels between speakers (except subwoofers), I'd guess dBA would be more useful for cinema. However, that isn't something I do often, and not sure how the home cinema experts do it.
@@theproductionacademy I found the official information. For a bass-managed system, the level of each speakers have to be adjusted to 85 dBC because the subwoofer handles the lower frequencies for every channel. Looks to be the same on a non bass managed system (main speakers have to be able to reach 40-45hz). For the LFE signal there is no question we use of course dBC
Great video! So if I want to measure the overall for performance level for hearing protection, I have been using dBA, are you saying I should use dBC instead to account for the entire range?
Thanks! Actually, for hearing protection, dBA can work fine because it's focused on the frequencies that are likely to cause hearing damage. But if you have a lot of low frequency information (subwoofers, etc.) dBC can be a more accurate measurement.
In the UK there are noise limits for neighbours at certain times but they are measured in dBa. If you can hear your neighbours subwoofer then measuring in dBa is pointless as it won't pick up the low frequencies. If I understand it correctly.
A show can be loud without destroying peoples hearing, you just need to be conscious of how loud you are mixing. Not all concerts are meant to be quiet…
@@theproductionacademy I went to an INXS concert, and couldn't hear for 3 days. 30 years later, my hearing is still affected. You're telling me you can't stand the volume and you need ear plugs, but everyone else is going to be fine. That makes no sense.
The C-weighting scale was originally designed to be the best predictor of the ear’s sensitivity to tones at high noise levels. Why, then, are noise measurements for hearing conservation almost always measured in dBA? Because the ear’s loudness sensitivity for tones is not the same as the ears’ damage risk for noise. Even though the low frequencies and high frequencies are perceived as being equally loud at high sound levels, much of the low frequency noise is actually being filtered out by the ear, making it less likely to cause damage. The A-weighting scale in a sound level meter replicates this filtering process of the human ear.
I actually don't think it's intentional, it's just that dBA has become the standard when they should probably be using dBC for concerts. Honestly, even with most dB limits (either A or C) most concerts are well beyond what is safe and healthy. Earplugs are your friends!!
@@theproductionacademy that's what I'm saying they just agreed on the standard that is easier to achieve, as dBA works more predictably for various genres I guess, even so it damages the hearing. I even use earplugs in movie theatres nowadays, because it's just uncomfortable when the volume jumps to 100dB at some stinger or explosions.
Thank you for explaining this concept to us who are not that technical.
One time I was doing stage front security at a family friendly music festival. One of the EDM artist was furious because the border police denied entry into the country to his brother due to legal reasons. So some how during his set he did something to crank up the volume louder than I have ever experienced before. I am pretty sure the mixer guys are in charge of the volume so I don't know what happened. I have been stage security at all kinds of metal and EDM shows and never felt pain like this. Even with ear plugs it felt like someone was trying to tighten sharp little screws into my ear drums. I could not withstand that pain without plugging my ears physically with both hands. I was forcing little kids under 12 that were trying to come near the stage to either put on ear plugs or back up during his set.
This is real problem, and that’s mostly why decibel limits are put in place (other than not bothering neighbors). I usually have packs of earplugs I give out to people at festivals, especially young kids.
@@theproductionacademy Wouldn't it be better quality to play the music at a level that doesn't require plugging ears. Earplugs not only reduce the volume, but in doing so they also distort the audio spectrum contour.
Lets pay our hard earned money to wear earplugs that distort the audio spectrum contour so we can listen to music. No thanks.
@@alstu9492 If the music is quieter, then the difference between the audience and the music is smaller. I can't get a crowd to quiet down, but I can put in earplugs.
Nice video, but take care folks. If you have 100db-A at your mixer position some 30 meters away from stage, you easy have +120dB-C up front in the audience. And since we are more tolerent to high levels after just a few drinks, this can be dangerous to your hearing. At rockconcerts, alwayss use dB-C! We are here to give people a good and maybe loud experience, not to damage their health.
I have a very practical question.
In a place I semi-regularly go to the rule is max 100dbA and max 115dbC. They are pretty attentive to those rules so the music is always within 0.5db of the limit. My question is, do I need to take special precautions specifically because of the high bass? I already wear foam plugs, but does the high dbC warrant other protective measures? what if it was 100dbA and 120dbC? or more....
You're far less likely to incur hearing damage from the low frequencies. That's great you're using the foam plugs, just make sure to be very diligent about keeping them in and making sure you have a good seal in your ear canal (like, not using them only halfway in). There's not much more you can do beyond that, and you should be fine. That said, there's always SOME risk from being around loud music... just make sure you are staying careful.
@@theproductionacademy thanks for the fast reply!
Thank you! I only have a dB(A) meter, what do you guess is the difference in dB when using full spectrum noise vs dB(C)? Shows db(C) +6 dB or even more difference?
Thanks for this video Scott!
What about sound level calibration now? For a multi-channel mix (home cinema in a dedicated room, in my case), should a measurement be made in dBA or in dBC to calibrate the levels?
The bass is increasingly used in today's mixes. Is it better to concentrate on the part above 1000hz (voice of the actors) and therefore measure in dBA with its sound level meter or on the contrary it is necessary to take into account the bass and use the dBC? What is your opinion?
Many thanks!
François
I'd say you should take measurements in both dBA and dBC. As long as you understand the difference, you can use that information however you wish.
But for balancing levels between speakers (except subwoofers), I'd guess dBA would be more useful for cinema. However, that isn't something I do often, and not sure how the home cinema experts do it.
@@theproductionacademy I found the official information.
For a bass-managed system, the level of each speakers have to be adjusted to 85 dBC because the subwoofer handles the lower
frequencies for every channel.
Looks to be the same on a non bass managed system (main speakers have to be able to reach 40-45hz).
For the LFE signal there is no question we use of course dBC
@@Francoisl76 Makes sense - thanks for the update!
Great video! So if I want to measure the overall for performance level for hearing protection, I have been using dBA, are you saying I should use dBC instead to account for the entire range?
Thanks! Actually, for hearing protection, dBA can work fine because it's focused on the frequencies that are likely to cause hearing damage. But if you have a lot of low frequency information (subwoofers, etc.) dBC can be a more accurate measurement.
In the UK there are noise limits for neighbours at certain times but they are measured in dBa. If you can hear your neighbours subwoofer then measuring in dBa is pointless as it won't pick up the low frequencies. If I understand it correctly.
That is correct!
haha it sounds like we have a fool-proof way of annoying the neighbor
Great video 👌🏾
🔥 Great video 🙌🏾 my neighbours thank you 😎💫
Maturnuwun pak
So.... destroy the audience's hearing, but preserve your own. Hmmm.....
A show can be loud without destroying peoples hearing, you just need to be conscious of how loud you are mixing. Not all concerts are meant to be quiet…
@@theproductionacademy I went to an INXS concert, and couldn't hear for 3 days. 30 years later, my hearing is still affected. You're telling me you can't stand the volume and you need ear plugs, but everyone else is going to be fine. That makes no sense.
The C-weighting scale was originally designed to be the best predictor of the ear’s sensitivity to tones at high noise levels. Why, then, are noise measurements for hearing conservation almost always measured in dBA? Because the ear’s loudness sensitivity for tones is not the same as the ears’ damage risk for noise. Even though the low frequencies and high frequencies are perceived as being equally loud at high sound levels, much of the low frequency noise is actually being filtered out by the ear, making it less likely to cause damage. The A-weighting scale in a sound level meter replicates this filtering process of the human ear.
@@theproductionacademy all I can say is I went to an INXS concert as a kid and my hearing was never the same
So they intentionally use dBA to push the volume beyond healthy level and pretend that it's normal. A lot of people should be sued.
I actually don't think it's intentional, it's just that dBA has become the standard when they should probably be using dBC for concerts. Honestly, even with most dB limits (either A or C) most concerts are well beyond what is safe and healthy. Earplugs are your friends!!
@@theproductionacademy that's what I'm saying they just agreed on the standard that is easier to achieve, as dBA works more predictably for various genres I guess, even so it damages the hearing. I even use earplugs in movie theatres nowadays, because it's just uncomfortable when the volume jumps to 100dB at some stinger or explosions.