Labour's Economic Plans In Trouble?
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- Опубликовано: 10 окт 2024
- As Labour hints at more plans to save money in the Autumn Budget, Robert and Steph discuss how Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves made such a mess of scrapping the winter fuel payment as well as whether they were wrong to abolish the social care cap.
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The way Robert shut down Steph about working class people who’ve saved and come good, shows his background and prejudice! My grandpa who worked in a factory all his life and bought his council house, certainly remained working class until he died. I may be middle class due to his efforts but Robert clearly has no idea what is like for people who’ve saved £200K or so including their home losing everything at the end
I’ve not forgotten or forgiven Gordon Brown and his advisers for abolishing the 10p income tax rate and insisting there would be no losers, when it was plainly obvious the lowest earners would lose out.
I joined the party two years ago but resigned my membership on Sunday.
For the Labour Party to hit the poorest in society is absolutely abhorrent, there are absolutely no excuses.
This is the second time I’ve seen this from Labour, I don’t know who I will vote for in future but it certainly won’t be the Labour Party. I won’t forget or forgive.
1 in 4 pensioners are millionaires. 3 in 4 own their home outright. Pensioner doesn't equal poor, quite the opposite in most cases. For a lot of them, free money wasn't needed
Owning a house worth a lot of cash does not mean you are cash wealthy @@ricado7535
You forgot that it was the same Gordon Brown who raided our pension funds to the tune of 35%.
Labour have firm on dumping on old and poor people.
@n1968m And for selling off UK gold at bargain basement price !!!
@@ricado7535What a load if bollocks! 🤣
No - in response to a question in this interview - axing the Winter Fuel Allowance is absolutely *not* one of those things that will all be forgotten in a few months.
There's going to be a LOT OF COLD CHILDREN THIS WINTER. Many Grandparents care for our their grandchildren during school breaks. Thanks a bunch
It got through because the Labour MP's except for One are spineless and not acting for the good of their constituants.
Democracy at its finest!
People won’t forget the cheering, crowing and fist pumping from those weasels on the Labour benches when they ‘won’ the vote to screw their elders and betters.
Robert was complaining that the pensioners wouldn't get their £400 rise until April but it slipped his mind that they got a £900 rise last April and the cost of fuel is a lot cheaper this winter than last.
Spot on!
@@martinmurphy9679 increases in pension only bring people into line with the cost of living as at the date granted.The energy cap has been lifted so bang goes another £100 upwards
MP's were cowards voting to tate the winter allowance, the public, thr pensioners will never forget.. Labour will never be voted in ever again... STARMER needs the boot now..
Pensioners voted in 2016 for the country to be poorer and weaker with less public money for the public. They got their wish..
They only got in on the smallest of margins.
@@DavidsonJamesHow-jf9dqIndeed.
Sorry but the Government has broke the trust of Labour Pensioner Members.
I will not be able to save anything now.
We desperately need the minimum wage. There is no need for all of this!
It’s perfectly sensible to say that ‘rich’ pensioners do not need and shouldn’t have the winter fuel payment, but the current Pension Credit means test is far too narrow. The politics of this has been so amateurish.
It seems to me that if you are just above the cut off for pension credit then with all the extras pension credit brings ( 3K cash and help with council tax, dental fees etc ) make the recipients much better off than those who just miss out. It's a topsy turvy world.
@@auldfouter8661 pensioners can still get help with council tax (and rent, if applicable) if they’re not in receipt of Pension Credit. They won’t get the full amount but there’s a taper adjustment which means the council tax reduction award reduces as their income increases, until their income is at a level where they qualify for nothing. Expanding the winter fuel payment qualifying criteria to those who are getting Council Tax Reduction and/or Housing Benefit, with or without Pension Credit, seems a better way of means testing it to me.
@@jamesuk3896 Reeves hasn't guaranteed the continuation of the 25% reduction on council tax for single people - that would be potentially more damaging than the loss of the heating allowance. Council tax is hugely expensive in Scotland. That would cost me £700 more on my bungalow.
@@auldfouter8661 that’s come out of the blue and would be very……….’brave’! It wouldn’t actually make any difference to anyone on Council Tax Reduction as the award would increase with the liability but if you’re not, yes a big issue!
Spot on. Pri ciplefine. Implemrntation lamentable PARTICULARLY the fac that Offgen came out only 2.5 weeks later.and said bills up £170. What PR exec worth their salt couldn't put those 2 events together. They remind me of student politics to be honest. Not an ounce of nous between them.
Reeves it an utter disgrace to the British state that was built by the current pensioners
Thanks. And we never begrudged a penny to our elders.
So incredibly entitled. This is why you used to be referred to as the “Me Generation” before you rebranded yourselves as “Baby Boomers”.
@@andrewharris3900 you will understand once to get to age. It’s a matter of principle. 1 billion is nothing so the morality here is in question my friend
@@varshapatel4537 You’re completely unprincipled. The Me Generation have de-industrialised Britain, broken Britain’s family structure (highest divorce rates), indebted the country (in peace time) to feather their own nest, trading against the next generation of Brits who are going to have to eventually pay down that debt. Then moan to no end when a single little benefit is taken away.
Stammer & Reeves will have to go .I was a
Lifelong Labour supporter this attack on low income pensioners is unforgivable.
Notice Starmer gets all his expenses heating, car, house ,subsidised food and bar in Parliament people buying his clothes and he denies pensioners £300 per year. The other problem when the pensioners get their rise the cost of living is rising and they are talking of council tax, water etc rising, it’s eaten up before they get it.
Wait till you see his 300k per year pension that is exempt from tax by special act of parliament raised just for him.
£200*
If middle class is about owning your own home we have set our levels far too low in this country.
The only thing Labour can do is raise the threshold for winter fuel payments to £20000 per year. This would give more pensioners some comfort
@michaelcasement9802 I know, just pay UK elderly, a DECENT pension !!!!!
Have frozen tax bands been discussed? In November 2022, Mrs Reeves called them stealth taxes. Has she changed her mind or her principles?
Coming after pensioners to chuck a little infill into the "black hole" is cowardice. Taxing asset wealth and investment income at the same rate as work income would be brave and transformative, since it would help growth (as explained by the patriotic millionaires).
Yes but that would upset all the nice new shiny donors Labour have got on board. Can't do that - it would mean fewer freebies and less funding come the next election. So, they're safe and so is their money. The budget might reveal something but at present it doesn't look much like a Labour government.
They have a plan ? Repeating the Tory mistake of austerity and lack of investment isn’t a plan , it’s a non plan.
Even Peston is now having trouble defending Liebour 😂😂😂
@cp4512 Champagne socialist and Guardian reader/writer !!!
Yes, his bias was clear & he was previously a big fan of labour
I wonder if there will be any other major missteps between now and the budget... Because that one will put the final nail in the coffin
The governor of the Bank of England indeed stop taking us all for fools.
HONESTLY i have 6 children that work full time in this flooked up country . 3 are engineers one works in IT [ works from home ] one is a candle maker .
the last one is manages a MOT [vosa ] garage . combined they could just about to afford a house to live in in this country !!! .
a six bed house is just affordable . for a hard working [HIGLY SKILLED 6 PERSON FAMILY ]
the only economy in this country equates to line the pockets of the rich .
there is no other option BUT TO GO YOUR OWN WAY . NEVER DO WHAT YOUR /GOV SAYS YOU SHOULD DO .
@colinvanful hard work does not pay in the UK.Everything is so highly taxed or just expensive. Our governments over the last 20 years have failed us miserably by allowing a few very wealthy people to suck us dry.Ironic, that people believe that the rest of Europe are taxed more, but I don't think it is true. We in the UK just get so little back for working very hard.
Robert peston talking to a senior politician who he trusts😂😂 were they both out riding on their unicorns at the time
How about, as a starter remove the winter payment for any pensioner paying 40% Income Tax ? This would mean pensioners with a private pension or other income in excess of around £38k in addition to their state pension.
The simple way of doing it was to leave it in place but increase the amount of tax they pay via reduction of their taxable allowance if someone is over 65 and earning over 20% tax.
Lolol. Showing Peston is delusional if he thinks this will be forgotten & become less important. Yet more well off talking heads that just don't get how hand to mouth many pensioners live. Starmer is now not only unpopular but actively the enemy of the people in a large proportion of peoples minds. Why should pensioners have to go beg for extra money.
No problem with means testing but set the means at a reasonable level .. maybe real living wage ..
"They don't want to undermine the authority of Starmer, Reeves...."
Not so. What they really don't want to do is put their heads above the parapets and get ignored, potentially demoted and subsequently excluded from their nice new fluffy jobs - complete with c. £3,400 annual heating allowance.
A good 3/4 of what any MP does is self interest - which includes (unfortunately) stuff done for their constituents. The rest is party interest.
£1.4bn is the latest estimate for the saving as a result of winter fuel cut? So....only.6.3% of the alleged £22bn?
That minimal impact on the £22bn, coupled with the belated admission that no impact assessment was carried out indicates that the reason the government cut this payment, was because it was administratively easy for HMT, and the scale of the saving is relatively stable and predictable (assuming only a few tens of thousands of pensioners claim benefit entitlements they aren't currently drawing down).
If they know who is entitled to it,just pay it to them.FFS.
This is the guy who stated on TV on a Friday that Bradford & Bingley were well capitalised and a safe investment, only for Brown and Darling to give away FOC to Santander at 1000 hrs Saturday the next day. Completely untrustworthy person. He also caused a run on Northern Rock
The winter fuel allowance was clever becuase the payment arrived just when pensioners had to find the extra money for heating. Plus many older home has (and still have) oil and solid fuel/logs which have to be paid for up front. A third point is that at least 80% of pensioners will be on the old state pensioner which will rise by a lower rate next April. And many dont have full years either
If they have to take the winter allowance why make it so complicated? Anyone earning enough to pay tax doesn’t get it. Simple.
Good idea, or even give everyone the same pension. Not fair to have two different amounts due to the year you retired.
So you think someone on £13,000 who pays tax from an additional pension shouldn't get the WFA?.
Nice.
Insurance to pay for severe incapacity, (which is similar to care homes in some ways), is huge, which is why very few people take out such a policy.
Labour continuing with their dark arts campaign from the last time they were in power. Blame everyone else but themselves for their failures. The false allegations that it was the treasury making decisions about the ineffective heating payments and that all pensioners should be means tested would mean that about 10 million people would not get the heating allowance but about 1 million people would be eligible for tax credits which would cost the government far more than they would save.
Labour cheered when it went through, we are not deaf or thick, they wanted it and we want them out, regardless!?!
No, they don’t get it till May (in the bank)!
The wheels came off this governments way quicker than I thought😮
We can only hope
Labour are living up to my every fearful expectation, they lose sight of the fact that 60% of us did NOT vote for them.
Starmer slammed Sunak for even considering this back in April, then went on to do it. Reeves is out of order with what she has done and the Bank of England has a poor record of understanding of the economy, most business men already know this.
😊Labour MP’s cheering at the result of the vote to end winter fuel payments while they keep their fuel allowance for second homes.
Those with the broadest shoulders what a load of bollocks.
Why was this payment not taken into account in 2016 when the new state pension was instigated???
The UK government spends around £1 trillion a year. Do you really think the country, the NHS, and everything else would be any better if the government collected and spent £1.1 trillion, £1.2 trillion, or any other amount? I believe that if you don’t know what you’re doing, no amount of money is going to make a difference.
where and how has a 22 billion over spend come from ..i have not seen or heard how this 22 billion came from ???????
It has all been clearly laid out !
No it hasn't the ft times sent a freedom of information claim to treasury and they refused saying they don't know the real total yet😂😂
@@JAYFD2929no it hasn't. And given Reeves & Co had 3 months full access to the Treasury, IBR and officials ifvit existed they would have blabber about it in the Election.
It only appeared after she paid off her union paymasters with 20% and 14% pay rises.
Because it never existed before Reeves paid off her union paymasters.
Far too many in the UK can afford to be free-riders and there is no stigma or taboo to claim money and benefits. It has been normalised by the last couple of generations that having nothing, do nothing and not contribute to society is both fair and an acceptable practice. It is a lifestyle choice to live off the state and others. Changing tax rules and upping tax rates is a short term bandage. There is a desperate need to change social attitudes. This doesn't happen in Hong Kong where everyone tries.
so you think 80 year old pensioners are "free-riders" and you want them to die working? How old are you, if I may ask
They are a complete shower and proof that the political class are so unbelievably out of touch.
Mistake #1 - cutting pensioners vs taxing millionaires/billionaires. Mistake #2 - prioritizing income taxes over wealth taxes. Mistake #3 - continuing the full-on Brexit madness.
Far from a sensible economic move it’s making Reeves look rank amateur
I don't think she looks that Good? a rank amateur is still not weak enough for this Stupid B' itch
Which she always has been. Only good at tacky soundbites against the Tories
I'm trying to get my pension (68 so due 2 yes ago) ..16weeks to process and then 4 weeks before any pension received......wtf
How does it save £1billion+ when the government want all those eligible but not currently claiming Pension Credit to do so .... in which case it will cost more. OR like all governments, its just words. The reality is none of them want people to get what they're entitled to.
The idea behind this decision what I think is that there are many people who do not need winter fuel allowance but they get it because it is universal so it will save money but it is bad politics because instead of stopping it now they should have just first mean tested it then taken away instead of taking it away now from all and then giving it people who need it
Of course they say they want people to get their entitlement, but reality is they won't claim, they don't claim now.
Oh no people won’t forget nor forgive, like we do for the 20% VAT on school fees. Never Labour forever.
Can our government decide economic policy today? Are bigger forces bound to steer that more and more?
An appallingly mis-managed move. They could have brought it in mid 2025 and found a far better way to means test it so that it just cut it for cash rich people.
A clear attack on the elderly and vulnerable. Bus passes will go
Moral of the story- Don't bother striving to achieve, you'll end up cold and broke.
Let the state pay your way through life.
Never have to work , then get winter fuel allowance and your care in old age paid for, the sacrifice- you'll have to live in rented/council accommodation.
Pension credit claims outcosting the policy doesn't matter because that would represent a wealth transfer from rich to poor which is whats required.
I would not be surprised that the Treasury mandarins the most powerful civil service department have influenced Labour policy .Every time a PM enters No 10 despite promises to the nuclear test veterans they are forgotten no doubt after pressure from the MOD & Treasury
Labour have attacked the most vulnerable and allowed the big earners to get off scott free.... disgusting
You’ll get your wish in October. Why everyone blasts high earners who essentially already bank roll the services for the disadvantaged or less fortunate is beyond me. Remember, there’s a difference between high earners who are taxed huge sums already via income tax vs multi-millionaires who get off very lightly tax wise as it’s hard to tax ‘wealth’ I.e. Rishi!
Literally NO incentive to work or pay taxes in this country anymore as you just get punished for it. Just sit on your arse with your hand out as that seems to be what we value these days.
The staggering financial illiteracy on display in this cushion is beyond belief
The increase in the State pension is an increase due to the cost of living Rising with inflation therefore it is not an increase it just means Pensioners are getting poorer at a slower pace The winter fuel payment was 4 fuel to heat their homes and keep them alive during the winter
Did he just insinuate that Liz Truss was brought down because she went against City interests?
I haven’t used my central heating for three years now because of Russia attacking Ukraine in the first place . Most days I don’t get dressed so I only put three loads of washing on each month . My shower needs repairing so I wash from a kettle of boiling water . I only shop for the food when the fridge is totally empty . Well done Labour and all the people who didn’t bother to vote them out .
So the Bank Of England intend to do what they did to Liz Truss.
A "Truss Moment" is where a fake market crisis is manufactured for political reasons.
The sooner they do it to Keir Starmer, the better it will be for everyone. Worst PM ever.
I seen a clip on Fox news where Liz Truss says the British government has no clout that it is the bank of England that rules the roost.That was just a couple of weeks ago.Now you have heard the same.?
@@abicat6158 Short memory?
Tough on warmth, tough on the causes of warmth.
No we will not forget, when people die of this. We will remember in 5 years time !
You won't fix these problems until you fix the money.
Central Banks printing c7% a year is not the solution.
Spend in £s . Save in Bitcoin
Preston ignored the point that 'Kickstarting'' the economy won't happen if there are massive tax rises. It will hamper investment & many of iur entrepreneurs will leave the country to make money elsewhere. In addition, our economy is not in as bad a shape of many of our European rivals in terms of economic growth so I'm surprised Peston reiterates the inaccurate labour misinformation. . Did I also hear Peston say £8b of the £22b came from increased in public sector pay settlement? Ie exactly what Labour is doing now & has berratted TBF Tories for not doing
you wont be forgetting it when the 4000 pensioners die that labour predicted this winter
It’s not unforced it’s a ploy…….we the voter will get very angry, we will vote against them in-the local elections and elect Tory councils. Then the government can blame councils for social welfare failings brought on by this and future changes.
I was a full time carer and my disabled dad would have lost this payment. Reeves has to compromise and make the means testing include Attendance Allowance which my dad claimed. It has not been thought through enough and they should have done an impact assessment. It has been handled very badly and we are still in a cost of living crisis. This issue has opened up a pandora's box of issues facing pensioners. Also, my dad did not own his own house and he had very little savings but still had to contribute to pay for his care. The whole system needs reforming. This is why the WFP is a huge issue because care costs so much and council funding has been cut since 2010 so we ended up paying more than we could really afford.
It's another example of political narrative defining policy. The biggest issue within our politics. The Tories were guilty of it . And Labour are following suit.
Grifting profits are largely protected, so the Chancellor will say the Economy is moving in the right direction.
If Pensioners lose their energy cap but claim the Pension Credit then the money would go from richer Pensioners to Pensioners who deserve it; who are poor? Am I wrong?? If not then you should have highlighted this and not made the Government look non stupid. Is this poor journalism?? The case is there that a lot of Pensioners don't need this Energy Cap, they are well off.
It seems to have done a job for Labour.
It has papered over the fact that a deal was done with the unions before the election to give them the pay increases they were asking for. Also that the basis of the £20bn funding black hole seems to be at best spurious and at worst completely of Labour’s own making.
Neither of the two very fundamental points have received any attention as a result. Not a bad strategy viewed through that lens maybe?
The OBR disagree with you.
@@martinmurphy9679on which point?
I have seen it quoted that £9m of the ‘black hole’ comes from public sector payrise. Is that really possible?
That is one choice the new gov made - despite saying it has no choice.
The treasury will not give details of the so called black hole but they did say it was the public sector workers and the unplanned excessive amount on immigration.
Yes and it’s happened.
9m is a grain of sand on the beach. Do you mean 9bn? That's almost how much we have pledged to Ukraine.
No you are wrong, it was 9 billion pounds.
Pensioners remain the least likely age group to be in poverty. I have a relation who is way better off now he has reached 66. Prior to that he couldn't get employment again post covid and received about £400pm job seekers and didn't pay council tax. That is real poverty, not pensioners.
If you think all pensioners are in a good position like your relation then you are very wrong. Very few pensioners are rich. Not all pensioners had well paid jobs with gold plated pensions. Most worked hard all their lives.
And add the cost of means testing, you soon get back to it been cheaper too pay it universally.
So people like Elton John get £300 they don't need. But how much tax as Elton put into the economy, never mind all the people he's employed, who also paid tax.
Seems £300 quid to Elton would be a minimal thank you.
More centrist twaddle from Goalhanger or whatever it’s called?
Robert is always about rumours and gossip , he said she said … pain in the ass of U.K. democracy . Kuennsberg is just as bad ,,, shallow rumour peddling instead of any serious journalism
I'm ashamed to say I voted for this. Wish we could take it back.
We all wish you could.
Nobody is going to do business in the UK what economy only money for investment tax payers money is going to be the only money left
Bllx I don't believe it.
And with the personal allowance being frozen, more and more pensioners will start paying income tax.
Robert peston a man with more face’s than Big Ben 👍
All OAPs bill redirect for payment 10 Downing Street. Sorted👏👏👏👏👏
Why is the government even having meetings over £1b savings? It’s like me calling a family meeting over the pennies lost in the sofa. £5B maybe il have a quick teams call.
What about stopping war and green issues
Did the bank insist on wirhdrawal of the winter fuel payment in exchange for other policies that will be announced in the budget or in exchange for the public services pay increases given to medics, teachers and rail workers? Should the bank of England have so much control over our elected government?
There are no plans, they are just following ideology
100% spot on
Time to insist MPs work for free, and take away any claims for expenses.
The gov has to be careful with the means testing aspect of pensions. I know people who’ve retired recently with a modest 100k ish pension pot and spent the lot as soon as they could, one retired 3 yrs early, 25k lump sum and 25k pa.. come 67 they can claim assorts of stuff, still a terrible standard of living but not far off similar to the 4K pa (less tax) they would have received with an annuity.. but they now have a camper van and three years of memories..
If Liebour have the mechanism to withdraw the heating allowance why can't they automatically give those who qualify yet haven't claimed pension credit the heating. allowance. Because in reality they hope they won't claim.
Oh come on. Do we really think this has anything to do with the money. This is political, look at who votes for Labour vs who votes Tory. Workers and those who claim working benefits have been clobbered for the last 14 years along with the poorest in society whilst pensioners in general have been protected with the triple lock. Also, 25% of pensioners live in millionare households so scrapping a universal benefit some would say is sensible. Labour knows the only reason they won the election is because pensioners stayed at home home on election night. Lets put this into perspective, if every pensioner who is entitled to pension credit claims it, it wipes out the £1 billion pound saving the government is hoping to save.
Richard J Murphy who teaches senior accountancy in Sheffield University bring him onto the program he will explain everything and the way the government should go about resolving its issues that includes black hole. He has this solution for everything. You just need to bring him on the program and not include your colleague as well. That’s on the program in your interest as well as our I just thought I’d put it out there because he has a RUclips channel if you wish to go to it and you’re probably understand exactly what I’m talking about, bye for now. Take care of your friends and family. I hope this helps resolve all the financial issues the country has and the solutions but unless you go there and watch him I’m afraid you continuously go round and round in circles bye for now.
That won't happen, since this is a 'conventional' account that our media has specialised in for years. Pretending some stuff matters when it doesn't - and Murphy would say so - will make presenters look rather silly pretty quick.
Has Starmer's government made any proposals to expand the economy?
Yes, green investment, national wealth fund, communicated with pension funds commitment to uk equity
What noone seems to talk about is WHY social care is so exoensive? Where does the money go? Especially when the care sector pays staff such low wages.
Where does the money go? Well, shareholders for a start, plus a good wedge goes to asset stripper - sorry, asset 'manager' firms.
You will be working for the state or you won't be lol
Labour won't win another term
This storey does not seem credible.
Means testing the winter fuel allowance/payment is an awful decision because it would be hitting the most vulnerable the hardest
no? the most vulnerable would get the payment, that's what means testing is?
I think means testing works the opposite way to that.
Do u think they don't know that?and yet these big corporations who make billions a year nothing about them;the job of the government is 2 protect the people which is not what's happening;the people who have done nothing wrong is the ones who have 2 pay;when politicians who claim 2 be so intelligent make mistakes like these;makes u think is it a mistake;
Rich pensioners ? maybe 5% of pensioners. The rest live pension payment to pension payment with nothing left over at the end of the month.
27% of pensioners live in millionaire households. That would suggest the percentage of half millionaire pensioners is much higher.
@@martinmurphy9679 iF YOU MEAN THAT THEIR HOUSES ARE WORTH A £MILLION THEN MAYBE. THEY BOUGHT THEM 50+ YEARS AGO IN COUNTIES LIKE SURREY AND THE MORTGAGES ARE PAID OFF. BUT THEIR PRESENT PENSION STILL HAS TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.
Most pensioners don’t need the winter fuel payment so I think this move is fair.
..that is a very sweeping statement and doesn't help. The scheme has been going for twenty seven years,.why the sudden problem? The DWP should know people's incomes, so they could set a threshold for eligibility. No need for laborious 'means testing'.
CB manipulation of the politicians is not uncommon. Truss (ultimately proven.to be BofE), the.Fed put (the current battle between Powell and Yellen - the former keeping rates high and trying to turn off the liquidity spigotts and Yellen directly monetis8ng short-term treasuries to win the election), ECB's handling of Hungary and non-handling of France's deficit woes. Peston needs to grow up and exercise.some due scepticism.
Cannot say I’ve any sympathy for cutting money going to pensioners. The boomers take out 1.2p for each 1p they put in, didn’t save for their retirement and then gave us the gift of Brexit which has cost us far more than we ever contributed to the EU and is making their own grandchildren poorer. They’ve also had the benefit of lower housing costs and markers going up. Putting even 20 quid a week into an index fund from an early age makes a material difference.
Only a complete Remainer nugget would link Brexit to this despicable plan.
And remember it was this group of people that paid taxes to pay for your health care and education. Which appears to have been a waste of our money.