Comparing the FS140 to the FSPD140
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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ABR Electric in McKinney TX
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The FS140 and FSPD140 surge protectors are very similar models from Siemens. The primary differences are in SCCR rating and in the installation logistics. The VPR and MCOV ratings are slightly better on the FS140.
While both models have an audible alarm, the FSPD has a signal cable for connection to a dry contact (both NO, NC available) for external alarm - possibly for a light, siren, etc? With the FSPD leads being significantly shorter, the signal cable may allow for external alarm while the device itself is mounted inside the panel.
Currently, the FS140 is still in production, and per my Siemens' sources, is not being replaced by the Bolt Shield. In my region the 2 units are priced virtually the same, with similar lead times on delivery.
What are your thoughts and opinions? What is the situation in your region for these products?
Thank you,
James
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I just got off the telephone with a senior Siemens SPD engineer. He said the FS140 is NOT being phased out. Lowes is incorrect. The new FSPD is designed PRIMARILY for outdoor use, he said, hung from an exterior service or panel box. That is why there are no mounting tabs. The FSPD is to be hung by the 1/2 nipple from an exterior (primarily) load center or exterior service disconnect that has room for breakers. The FSPD, he said, is considered "a bit more" for exterior and commercial first, but also for residential. The FS140 is considered "primarily" a residential and inside mount device and "also" rated for and is fine for commercial use. Sorry if that sounds confusing. He was not very black and white on recommendations.
My Load Panel is in the garage, on the opposite side of the exterior wall from the meter and exterior service disconnect. He recommended I use the FS140, coming off my inside Load Center, because: FS140 was better for inside use and "preferred'" to residential use. But he said I could use either and both would be fine. He saw no great benefit for a 200amp residential home service using one over the other.
Lastly, he confirmed that you can use a 20 or 30 amp two pole breaker to feed the FS140 or FSPD. Makes no difference at all. It functions as just as a disconnect. I asked why Siemens just recommends the 20 amp in their literature. He said so that people will not contact them asking which is better. :)
I have used several FS140s in the past. Love them. They work. In my urban area of Denver, my biggest electrical issue is street racers crashing and demolishing transformers, with resulting surges.
Great information! Thank you for sharing
@@abrelectric Loved your video, by the way. Glad you mentioned that different specs do not automatically mean one widget is better than the other. I work with a hi-fi equipment company. During the pandemic, we needed to change parts. The specs on the final units were different. Many contacted us with: what is better? They sounded exactly the same. Hard for some to understand that different does not mean better or worse. Also, the new FSPD makes sense now that I realize many have exterior mounted load centers or exterior service disconnects with breakers. In New England or Colorado, load panels are universally inside, in a warm place and away from the snow and elements. When I see people like you in Texas installing a whole house SPD on an exterior load center, it opened my eyes.
The FS140 is not for residential application only, it's suitable for commercial jobs and meets all commercial specifications. It comes standard in a NEMA 4X and suitable for outdoor application.
@@Terable13 I'm pretty sure I didn't know that - thanks!
@@Terable13 I agree. Sorry if I implied otherwise. Its build like a brick shithouse, as they say. I prefer the FS140 inside because of the mounting tabs.
Thank You!
Your videos have been a phenomenal sales tool for us.
I love your whiteboard pointer 😂 thanks for this video
Thank you. The pointer is Custom Vintage :)
BoltShield FSPD and FirstSurge 140 are not the same manufacturer, they are from two different OEMs that brand label for Siemens. The technology inside the two devices is different, and in fact the FirstSurge FS140 actually offers a higher kA rating (172kA) than the Boltshield FSPD140, but the factory used whole numbers for easier product names based on a previous line during UL 3rd Edition. Why are their two sources? Due to component issues that started during COVID shutdowns, many brands learned to have more than one source for product. Not only is there a difference in technology between the two devices, I have yet to find a connected equipment warranty for the BoltShield, only a 10 year product warranty, and have noticed the lack of versatility in mounting the BS FSPD over the FS FS140. You are correct that the FS140 has not stopped being produced.
Good info!
Looking at the bolt shield series spec sheet also says they use thermally protected MOVs. Now I’m not sure if they use TPMOV in their first surge series or if they make a big difference like ABR was saying in his other video comparing other SPD from Eaton and Ditek, but he seeemd to think so.
Also it comes with extra wires that from what I watched in another RUclips video is for a remote alarm to alert if the SPD has any faults or if the breaker has tripped. Any chnage of opinions knowing this?
@@impermanance5624 the BoltShield version uses a pill stack on small MOVs with a single thermal fuse as opposed to the industry standard of individually thermally fused MOVs. And both versions offer audible alarm and dry contacts, but I have yet to see any connected equipment warranty from the BS version. If you can get the original FirstSurge series, I would stock them up as they are no longer being manufactured.
From Siemens' website "• FSPD060, FSPD100, FSPD140 and FS060, FS100,
FS140: 10-year product and connected equipment warranty."
@@Terable13what brand/model would you recommend for residential use now that the FS140 is no longer available for a reasonable price? Is the FSPD140 the next best option?
When I was shopping for one, I found a BoltShield for quite a bit less $$. But I looked into the specs (not easy!) and didn't like that the BoltShield's vpr was 100v higher. 700 vs. 600 seems significant. So I paid the extra for the 140. I didn't see the difference in SCCR, and still don't understand what difference it actually makes.
I'm with you on that one
What would be great is if you could do a video on installing the FSPD140, specifically the 3 18awg wires.
Three 21" 18 AWG wires are included through the nipple as the Dry Contacts. Dry Contacts change state during inoperative conditions, including loss of power. Any status change can be monitored elsewhere via Dry Contacts.
• Please note: Dry Contacts are designed for low voltage or control signals only
• Maximum switching current is 2A
• Maximum switching voltage is 240Vac
• Higher energy applications require additional relay implementation outside the SPD
• Yellow or White is Common, Black is Normally Open and Brown is Normally Closed. If the Dry Contacts are
not utilized, insulate lead ends, coil and secure.
You can use the dry contacts activate a strobe light, a horn, etc
Tell you what. In November 2023, I installed an FS140 to my new electrical service panel. The cost was just under $225 for the protector, I am happy about that. Not even a year later, they are selling for almost $450. I found an SFPD140 online for less than $100 currently. I am considering ordering that as a back up to install if the FS140 should fail. Just thought I'd pass on this tidbit of information if anyone was curious. Cheers.
The prices have gone crazy. Please also look at the PSP Vortexx. Similar specs. Pricing reasonable.
I am finding the FA140 $200 more than the FSPD140 - Where are you getting your prices?
Good video though would have been perfect if you reviewed how to wire the FSPD140 as it has what appears to be dedicated wire for alarm with 3 small wires. I bought it as price was like 100 dollars but install details not there. Can you elaborate on how to wire it please as it is for my main panel at home? Thanks
Just installed an FSPD100 on a sub panel and I couldn't find any more info on it either but seems like it's to wire to and monitor on an alarm system. Having both the Normally Closed and Normally Open wires seems to be so it can be wired to any type of system. Would be great if the installation manual elaborated on that.
Stupid question: We have a whole house Generac generator, and the transfer switch is on the service entrance to the house. If the FS140 was added to a normal breaker position would this unit be more prone to damage due to the generator firing up for a power outage, or would it just be more protective of everything down stream in general. The generator has never been a problem before, but it is now 12 years old and of course the normal electrical power is the average of NYSEG in NY.
will this work in UK on 50hertz supply?
You don't say anything about if this device is a one time use and has to be replaced after one use? That's a really big deal for what it costs.
@lg3053 that's a great question. It is a one time device: if it is a large enough surge, the SPD will sacrifice itself. And need to be replaced. Remember, in the meantime, it will likely absorb numerous smaller surges in its lifetime.
looks easier to install. just pop a hole and mount. and since your other vid you said keep the wires short it seems obvious. you say the 18 inch leads are a downside? how you want as close to 6" as possible. please edit your video telling people installing with less wire the better.
@abrelectric Did you mention that the FS140 is a Type 1 SPD and the BoltShield FSPD 140 is a Type 2 SPD? They have different use cases.
I did find a few listings for the fs140 (lowes for one) that say it is being phased out and replaced by the fspd ......
I have asked my Siemens wholesalers the same question. There's no indication from them that FS140 is going anywhere.
@@abrelectric weird!!! the 140 is hard to find and wow they have gotten pricey! can I ask what issues youve had or found with the Eaton ultra???? I think you'd said a good second choice in another video but that you'd found issues with it. I sent back my CH surge breaker and ordered the eaton ultra, aside from the ridiculously short leads, it looks to be a decent item, before I instal it, -- is it? -- a decent choice????
@a nonimous no real issues with the Ultra. It became a preference with longer warranty and Slightly higher surge amp rating. The Ultra is good unit, you won't go wrong there.
@@abrelectricthanks! If I Could find the FS for less than $300 I'd buy that but the eaton ultra runs a lot less right now and is much better than what I have now (nothing) hate to give up my last 2 breaker spots but I'm sure its worth it-- thanks again for the honest advice and keep doing those videos Ive learned a lot and fun to watch. Im in NTX area so saving your information for when I need an electrician that actually knows what they are doing (I know my limits). pretty sure there is a sub panel in my future.............
My Lowes still sells them here in Florida
Which if either would perform better during a solar flair event?
I don't know. Likely no difference as neither claims any EMP protection
Is it worth the $200 difference , one is under $200 and one is almost hitting $500.
Video starts at 4:15 You're welcome.
can you use one outside the utility panel and one inside my 200amp. inside house panel?.
Absolutely. That's what I did. Creating layers helps protect.
What are the dry contact #18 wires for on the fspd?
To operate a remote relay, i.e. maybe for a strobe light, bell, etc
How do these provide surge protection to all the other breakers in the panel? When there is a surge what prevents the surge, this device causes the main breaker to go off?
I was watching another video on the install and this subject came up. The wire lengths from the unit(FS140) to the breaker are supposed to be as short as possible. Every other run to your house will be much longer to the other electrical devices(which creates more resistance). So, when the spike is detected by the unit, the shorter runs shunt the over voltage/over current, directly to the ground, and it prevents the spike before it can go to any other device on a longer runs.
CH panel recall??? Im in north Texas looking at adding a surge protector (trying to figure out what to spend my money on) I have a CH panel in my house ive not heard about ch panel problems... how do I know if mine is affected? AND do you have a way to get a quote to install or at least purchase the 140? I have the CH in panel breaker surge protector sitting here in a box not installed yet but from watching your videos it seems only slightly better than nothing which is what I have now. My reason for choosing the 140 is length of leads on the others (eaton ultra) are to short my panel is recessed and framed in so Im pretty much limited to below the panel or a breaker version and the 140 is the only one long enough to instal and breaker would need to be on the bottom for it to work. is the eaton CH surge breaker a waste of time and $$ ???? thanks! - love the videos learned a lot and pretty funny as well.
Recall is for certain CH AFCI breakers, you can look up the date window that is applicable online.
Any surge protector is better than none. So the breaker style spd is not a waste.
Whether you do the spd breaker FS140, totally your choice. What is the warranty difference between the breaker and FS140?
The FS140 has a 10 year warranty.
@a nonimous I think you did good, it's a win!
@@abrelectric thanks man! going to look through your you tube to see if you've got a review of the Eaton Ultra (if you dont do one!!!!!) I did see the "open it up to see whats inside" video and the Eaton looks pretty similar to the FS (same kinda round blue things ) which looks like one of the best out there that would be my preference but since I cant find and FS right now for less than $300 --- I trust Eaton a lot more than another random one I could find on amazon.
Thanks for the honest answer, Im in your NTX area (Corinth) so keeping up with your you tube and IF I mess up the install (sparky stuff happens) it will become your. problem 😂--- no I'm just kidding, I am fairly confident with my ability and I know my limits (touch NOTHING ABOVE THE MAIN breaker) -- respect (fear) the big wires before the main (which are ALWAYS live and can kill you) and shut main off, test all spots with a non-contact voltage tester( that I have verified works first), torque all connections to spec on side of breaker (for those who aren't familiar) and dont touch any of it if not confidant -- anyone looking to do this or anything else inside a breaker box, please be very careful! --- thanks again for your videos and I am saving your contact info for when I need an electrician who actually knows what they are doing! like when I need a sub-panel because this uses up my last two open spaces in my breaker box!
@@abrelectric thank you! I have no afci breakers panel is to old I guess so call does not affect me thanks again
I would change how you look at this: the Eaton leads are not too short, you're installing your SPD in the wrong place.. Every 1 inch of the leads is a depreciation of 25 volts. 10" is 250 volts ...ironic that people are concerned about the 100 volt difference between the FS 140 and the FSPD. Experts agree that your Type 2 SPD should be as close to the main breaker as possible with no sharp bends in the leads. I presume (but I don't know) that this is to be closer to an external surge from power company lines (storms, flood, trashed transformers, etc.). as opposed to a surge from an internal source (like a mtor issue from a washing machine).
I am now leaving 2 empty slots at the top of every new panel install/replacement in case customers want an SPD in the future. ;-)
Also, I would not install a combo breaker/SPD; if/when it blows, you could damage the breakers beside it or the panel (I have seen old SPDs with the sides burnt out); get an externally mounted SPD and cut a hole in the drywall above the panel if you have to. this is about function, not looks.
Personally, I don't like Eaton anyway, so I'd pay the extra money for the Siemens SPD, but if you've already got the Eaton, I'm sure it isn't "bad' or anything.
Oh, and you asked about what it should cost to install. Basically the labor should be any electrician's minimum. Don't be shy about asking. It's not complicated unless they have to cut out the drywall and/or move circuit breakers around in which case they might charge more. I'm in Phila. PA and almost all panels in my city are in unfinished basements, so it's super easy. My minimum ranges from $100-$150 depending on how far I drive. I generally charge $100 to install either a Type 1 or a Type 2 SPD -or if a customer wants both, it's $150. Since the labor charge is no different between types and brands, i suggest getting the best SPD someone can afford. I strongly recommend the Siemens FS-140, so that was a good choice.
How the heck do u flush mount the fspd?
You don't:) The Bolt Shield doesn't have provision for a flush plate
I was on Siemens website and the specs for the boltshield show that it is TPMOV. does that change your opinion in anyway?
Please share this link. I'm looking at their site and cutsheets and see nothing about TPMOV.
@@Terable13I have copied and pasted the link twice but it keeps being deleted. It is the second line down under design specifications on the spec sheet.
Why is the whole video spent looking at this guy's face? Why do we even need to see his face, at all? We need to see the surge protectors.
Good input
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