David Albert - Setting Time Aright
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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To appreciate time is to touch the texture of reality. Does time differ from our common perceptions of flow and passage? Is time fixed or flexible? Do we misunderstand time? If so, how to get it right? How does time work with physics?
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David Z Albert, PhD, is Frederick E. Woodbridge Professor of Philosophy and Director of the MA Program in The Philosophical Foundations of Physics at Columbia University in New York.
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Closer To Truth, hosted by Robert Lawrence Kuhn and directed by Peter Getzels, presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
I'm fascinated by the theory that time is an emergent property of entropy and does not itself actually exist. For what ever, that idea just makes sense to me. I'd like to to see this channel explore that theory specifically with someone far smarter than I.
Great interview and Guest! bottom line we are CLUELESS when it comes to understanding TIME!
TIME for the Philosophers to step up!😀
Albert is supreme in deploying nonsense to expose nonsense in Physics.
A very clever pseudo-magician whose contributions are meaningless and trivial.
I enjoyed listening to Albert’s responses to Khun’s pompous rhetoric.
Excellent interview
Love Albert, his enthusiasm is just infective.
The most emphatic lesson this particular issue shows us is that the universe and its laws are NOT based on mathematics, though mathematics can "describe" what we see. We never see time flowing backwards even if math allows it. Math is a creation of the mind, not a feature involved in the actions of the universe.
Albert is supreme in deploying nonsense to expose nonsense in Physics.
A very clever pseudo-magician whose contributions are meaningless and trivial.
I enjoyed listening to Albert’s responses to Khun’s pompous rhetoric.
Excellent interview
Delayed choice experiment. Since you're not making falsifiable hypothesis neither will I. Thus, delayed choice demonstrates time reversal and is modeled/predicted precisely by maths.
@@toph314 Maths does not make predictions.
@@PetraKann I establish axioms as a logical model. I PREDICT that if you have 1 apple and you WERE to aquire another apple, you would subsequently have TWO apples.
How do you define prediction lol
@@toph314 Predictions are what Scientific Theories make. And these predictions must be verifiable or refutable using the scientific method.
Mathematics is not a science Mr troph426.
It is part of the Arts Faculty like modern dance, finger painting and sculpture.
String Theory is a very good example of this common misunderstanding. String Theory does indeed make predictions, but these predictions cannot be refuted or verified via the scientific method. String Theory, as it stands today is a Mathematical Philosophy, not a scientific theory.
You are confusing Science with mathematics. Any connection between the two is purely coincidental and trivial my friend.
Great video and great Guest, Davis Albert always has something to say that is interesting and comprehensible. Many thanks Robert.
Some people are good at describing details of coming events that seem unlikely to skeptics -- like saying an egg will break and look like Argentina. It seems ridiculous, right?
My dad was good enuf at predicting accidents that a carrier commander grounded military aircraft whenever he said "I got a bad feeling." Dad never understood how or why, but he proved himself. When he said, "Don't fly tonight", no one did.
I have described in detail future events, but no one has ever listened except my wife and kids. Something must be hidden in the DNA of folks who see the future that is difficult to verify. My wife has something akin to it, but denies it. She says she merely listens to God speaking.
For me, the phenomenon is episodic but vivid, which helps to authenticate when it happens. It's crazy to see things unfold the way you see they will. It's also sad sometimes, because it feels like opportunities missed to avoid mistakes, to make things better.
A woman walked up to me once in a parking lot and said she would change my life if I married her. It's amazing how things work out sometimes for those who see the future like they remember the past.
I always enjoy listening to Albert. However, at 7:58 he says we have "zero experimental evidence" that an additional law of physics could be needed to explain the asymmetry of time. That's a strange thing to say after he'd spent the first 7 minutes describing time asymmetries we've all observed.
The "time reversal symmetry" that characterizes the laws of physics does NOT mean processes can go backward in time. It means the reverse process Y of a process X could go *forward* in time, if the later conditions of X are the initial conditions of Y, with some of those conditions (such as momentum) having the opposite sign. For instance, a collision of an electron and a positron results in their annihilation and the production of two high-energy photons a moment later, and the collision (in other words, the opposite momentum) of two high-energy photons can result in their annihilation and production of an electron and a positron a moment later... not earlier. In both processes, the direction of time is forward. So I think "time reversal symmetry" is poorly named, since it's not about time reversing.
three words:
bring
him
back
😁👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
PS: ...the more interesting prospects, are when there are processes that don't have MOTION AS WE PERCEIVE...then it is outside of time, perhaps entanglement for example...
time is fundamentally a minds stuff , which has functionality just as mind , understand changing mind and know time better
Time pops out when you combine equations of motion with your starting conditions.
Time asymmetry pops up when wave function collapses. It's bizarre how everyone ignore it
Not everyone agrees on anything collapsing
I wouldn't say that "everyone ignores it". Dyson thought about it.
Others also have similar ideas.
5:50 ARGENTINA 🇦🇷!!! Yeaahhh!!
Messi the goat 🐐
expansion of space in direction / arrow of time, entropy from the use of dark energy, time irreversibility in classic space?
The asymmetry of Time and the Arrow of Time are a measure of entropy as described in the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Entropy or disorder is always increasing according to the Second Law of thermodynamics. The Laws of Physics make it impossible to Time travel.
They do discuss this. The problem with that is the laws of thermodynamics are emergent behaviours, and not fundamental. A given system can reduce its entropy by moving it around. That’s how a fridge works. Small systems can also reduce their total entropy for a while, it’s just very unlikely.
On time travel, not so fast. It may be possible to create a limited form of time reversed causal loop in quantum mechanics. The Arvidsson-Shukur team at Cambridge recently validated the theoretical basis for this. Finding out if it can be experimentally demonstrated should be fun.
Time travel is impossible indeed from the laws of nature. The closest you can get near it, is a quantum computer that resets its memory without adding entropy. So because of super pos a quantum computer can rearange its memory back to how it was before. That is proven in the lab and closer then that to time travel we can not get.
If time is a concept only then
time travel may happen
in imagination only.
1. We have no free will. So it is only an illusion that we can really affect the future.
2. We can remember the future under certain conditions.
Here's how. Your brain forms a memory on its own of seeing sth green, later reverses that memory and emits a green light in doing so. The memory exists before the event and also there was a causal connection. Seen backwards the green light forms the memory. So a memory of the future.
Seems there are in fact good reasons to believe time asymmetries can be explained by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, as expounded by Carroll, et al.
..and these processes in reverse have to be motion in reverse, then you have it, because time is the measurement of motion forwards or backwards, our best clocks come from atomic motions which MOVE in a very accurate way...
Every particle is moving but
out of a virtually infinite number of possible directions,
each particle is moving in only one.
There is no moving 'forward' or 'backward'.
There is only movement.
And time is no more than the concept we use
to think about relative movement.
The second law of thermodynamics is easy to explain absolutely correctly.
The unique and correct dynamic is strongly manifesting exactly in your face, but you have to employ the correct understanding plus sufficiently cognitive prowess.
Fractal Recursion?
The direction of Entropy explains Time, and the different experiences associated with it.
Hm, I'm not so sure of that. Time doesn't flow in reverse when stars and planets form, even though those events are (temporarily) reducing entropy. Time does slow down near massive objects, but the arrow of time moves "forward".
@@mikedoesstuff4222 The thing is, Time does not flow at all. Einstein said: “To those of us who believe in physics,” he wrote in 1955 to the family of a friend who had recently died, “this separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, if a stubborn one.”
@@mikedoesstuff4222
Does 'time' slow or do objects simply move more slowly?
@mikedoesstuff4222 Agree. I think entropy increases in the direction of flow of time. This is simply because of the way the phase space is. This leads people to think that the corollary is true i.e. time flows in the direction of increase of entropy and thus gets its direction. Not true. Eventually when the universe will reach thermal equilibrium, but as long as there is change, the time will flow. Sure nobody will be there to notice, but events will follow in the direction of "before" to "after".
I see time as a catalyst that allows events to happen. What that catalyst is I have no idea.
might expansion of space set direction / arrow of time?
time is motion
there are infinity bubble universe connected with each others, inflation is propositional to emotions emotions is nothing else ,just the fine & lightest stuff is love of the same u call consciousness
People defend their perception as if it's their child. Getting angry and vile towards anything that goes against it. Oblivious to the truth that no one w such an approach knows as much as they think they do.
Hang on. We have several direct observations of time reversal symmetry violation, independent of the experimental demonstrations of CP violation which also imply T-Symmetry violation. Klaus Schubert’s work from 2015, and Schwarzchild’s in 2012 working on meson decay, but there are indications back to 1964. It’s even baked into the Standard Model.
Hello again Simon.
I've noticed no one talks about time per se.
Should time be actually a concept only would certainly explain it.
Seems to me the temporal concept enables us to think *collectively* about
the relative movements of a few and/or all objects and that
our ancestors originally derived/synthesized the concept
directly from their thoughts about objects' movements.
(Today we absorb the concept from our culture.
I still vaguely recollect the cardboard clock face and
its hands being moved by a finger accompanied by
a stream of verbal explanation).
Is this 'collectivity of movements'
to what most physicists are actually referring
when they use that little 't' in their equations?
Are there other physicists who conceive of time as
an actual 'something' in the universe that
happens to have an existentially mysterious nature?
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL General Relativity seem to work very well, and it does so by treating time as a dimension in much the same way as the three physical dimensions. Relative frames of reference shrink and stretch it in similar ways. So other than being unidirectional it seems to share a lot of similarities with them. I’m not sure how we could square that with it being emergent from completely different phenomena, unrelated to the nature of space.
Time symmetry implies the conservation of energy. See Emmy Noether’s theorem. That makes it more reasonable. The second law is more mysterious.
This is yet another indication that quantum mechanics is completely detached from describing the classical world.
It is not a convincing statement that microphysics is time reversible. Sure, it is possible to visualize how any process will look like in reverse. Just film the forward process and then run the video in reverse direction. However, that is not the same as saying that the process can actually be run without expending energy to reverse it and without doing work. When the natural processes go forward in time, they follow laws of physics. GR (and before Newton's laws) says that massive bodies attract each other. There is no extra energy/work that needs to be put into it to make it go. But if one wants to reverse the process of falling apple, one will have to expend specific energy/work to achieve that. And to run the whole universe in opposite direction and against the natural laws of attraction and repulsion we will have to expend too much energy.
The correct way to think about it may be that the microphysics is velocity reversible, Remember velocity is a vector and is made of direction+distance/tiime. So direction component can be reversed to give negative velocities while time component still remaining +ve. And in fact in the example Albert gave watching a film in reverse, effectively we see that velocities of the objects we see in the reverse running film are reversed in terms of the direction, but we watch the film in forward time direction still.
In a nutshell, the use of the word "forward" for time misleads us to think that the "reverse" time is a meaningful concept. But it is not. The way we should think of time is in terms of "before" to "after". Time only "flows" in that direction. It is somewhat like +ve 3 apples makes sense. But that does not mean -ve 3 apples are real objects. Thus, we should not think of apple in terms of +ve 3 apples, but just 3 apples.
The approach of introducing initial conditions is the right one, except that it suffers from the reductionist point of view of science.
First of all, time is cyclical and not linear. Even a "second" is a huge number of cycles of a particular isotope. So, time is cyclical but there is more, each cycle is a whole. People are used to space-wholes, objects that we see existing everywhere where the "parts" function together for the whole. This is more than evident in biology but atoms and molecules are wholes, just like stars and galaxies.
A cycle is a time-whole that starts with a quantum of energy and has a particular duration. The beginning, however, is most interesting because the so-called initial conditions carry a sea of potentiality, out of which only some will be actualized.
Wholes acting on wholes over the duration of cycles do not give rise to time symmetry, because the causality is holistic, not mechanistic. The cause interacts functionally with the target such that the effect may be greater than the cause, which is something impossible with mechanistic causation and yet necessary for life and evolution in general.
Que sera, sera.....or not
I can look at the booking of my bank account and let my eyes run it backwards. Doesn't give me the money back, I spent.
It seems to me that the fact of "reverse time" existing at the quantum level of elementary activity is not what is needed to be explained. Quantum doodads just act like waves (I thought), which are kind of time-reversible phenomena. What needs to be explained is why sequences of the time-reversible actions of fundamental things seem to go toward creating things of greater complexity (e.g., makes a brontosaurus, somehow, with both directions of various reversible chemical reactions, like growth and metabolism, being important for doing this). We sort of know how naturalism does this (e.g., abiogenesis is a problem to be solved by science -- we hope; evolution seems to create complexity, or at least modifies it). Recently there was a proposal for a new law of science to explain this "drive" toward complexification, or maybe it's just an observation: "hey we really need this missing law". I suspect this law is time asymetric. Anybody know the scoop on the "missing law" yet?
Relevant thoughts...
Every particle is moving but
out of a virtually infinite number of possible directions,
each particle is moving in only one
in any single instant.
Time is the concept we use to think about relative movement.
Time then, is not a thing-in-itself,
it's just a way of thinking.
Kind of confounding moving to a state of lowest energy use, or following the path of least resistance, with time reversal...aka conservation of energy.
Not withstanding any concepts of forward branching and reverse branching from a common fundamental root state of equal and opposite force/time.
Anyway, still trying to figure out how 'energy is conserved' and consequentially 'information', with mutual total annihilation of vacuum energy and matter/antimatter.
How can something become nothing if energy/information must be conserved ?
Science only allows a change of state. Not erasure.
So what happened to the missing stuff that cant actually be destroyed ?
What are those secret error correcting codes again?
Lots of macro situations can be difficult to determine time direction ,,snooker balls aside.
Looking down on a busy carpark might be another,,watching ducks struggle against the flow of a fast moving stream ,, I'm not sure what my point is though.😊
0:35 "mathematical property" that backs time reversal is not any different than any other process in the sense that if 1 then 2 then 1 which can not possibly erase one direction from ever happening... c'mon now, sequential order is the bedrock of mathematics, and there's no way around it... unless contradiction is equated with reason/logic... and if that was the case, structural order, as we know it couldn't be possible and there would have been regular reports of anomalies which we do not experience in everyday interactions with reality...
Time is an abstract concept invented by humans as a tool of measurement. The second or minute is an arbitrary unit that measures duration between events. Times does not govern the duration between events, natural forces do. Get the context right
Interacting Forces always act proportionatly with one another, and maths represents forces very well. That's why maths describes the world
*Time is a forward-directional unit of measure, and what time measures is "change."* ... Just because time gets factored into "changing phenomena" doesn't mean that time is an integral part of the phenomena. History will one day mock this generation of science for coining the phrase "space-time" and for declaring time as a dimension.
First, clearly time _isn't_ only a "forward-directional" unit of measure. After all, presumably you believe that something happened yesterday, don't you? And the only way that you could do that is to believe that yesterday was 24 hours _ago,_ therefore you must believe that time is a bi-directional unit of measure (where an hour is the unit, and there are units both receding into the past and also extending into the future.)
Second, time does not measure change. Time may well _be_ change (the entropic view), or it could be that time couldn't exist _without_ change occurring in the world (otherwise it would always be the same time), but clocks are what measure time, and clocks work by processes of uniform repetition - and "uniform", of course, means "the same".
Whatever time ultimately is, _it_ certainly doesn't measure anything, _we_ do.
@@simesaid *"First, clearly time isn't only a "forward-directional" unit of measure. After all, presumably you believe that something happened yesterday, don't you?"*
... The past is inaccessible. it's just a record of events that have already transpired which are only "observable" within the present. I cannot reverse the forward direction of time and save Abe Lincoln.
*"And the only way that you could do that is to believe that yesterday was 24 hours ago, therefore you must believe that time is a bi-directional unit of measure (where an hour is the unit, and there are units both receding into the past and also extending into the future.)"*
... The past is a record of all events, the present is the "now," and the future is merely a specific degree of probability based on information extracted from the past and the present. However, time does not move in reverse just because our minds can "remember things." We cannot aim time in the opposite direction and rewrite the existing record. ... Thus, time is forward-directional only.
*"Whatever time ultimately is, it certainly doesn't measure anything, we do."*
... Time established that your comment was submitted 10 minutes ago. That is now a part of the past. You cannot go back in time and submit something else. You can only edit what has already been written in the now. Time also established that my comment was submitted at 4:15 PM EST.
Time just measured everything we've done.
Yup. I study Platonics. Time has only arisen due to measure, implying change & motion. Therefore I question if it's proper to state that time measures change when in fact it is measure that is time. I see the quote above is implying that heads and tails are of their own individual coins and not of one.
'Time measures change.' This is erroneously reifying time as if it were a thing. Time isn't a thing, hasn't an attributes. The notion of time arisen because of measure i.e, mass & magnitude, and of course our memory of past motion & change.
I like Platonics and their philosophy. I try recommending some great books, but I'm not sure if any even care.
@@S3RAVA3LM *'Time measures change.' This is erroneously reifying time as if it were a thing."*
... Just like with logic and length, time is a process (or a "method of evaluating data") and not a thing. A minute is a specific measurement of time, and an inch is a specific measurement of length. Just because inches are etched into a ruler and time is displayed on a clock does not make them "things."
*"I try recommending some great books, but I'm not sure if any even care."*
... I have strabismus which makes it extremely difficult to read books. Plus, I'm busy pushing my own book.
@@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC"time is a process"
an interval of consecutive differences in the state of a particular unit of interest... if it doesn't overlap with somthing else, then its abstract uniqueness is referenced accordingly...
Look, particles always go in one direction: forward. That's it. And we use time to measure the rate of that forward movement, and that is why time is also always moving: forward. Backward is only added when we overlay with a coordinate system over space in order to perform our experiments and formulate our laws.
Time symmetry may not exist, because the laws of nature do not provide for it. However, evidence of it's possibility seem to have been found in certain cases, although even those are not completely perfect outcomes. Still, if time reversal is possible, it would have to be for the entirety of matter as we know it. It might be impossible to reconstruct the evidence of that happening.
Could it be that little 't' in the physicists equations,
represent something more complex that
in the condensed form of 't'
hides the actuality
resulting in unintelligibility?
@@REDPUMPERNICKEL ok I'm still confused about that
Let's not beat about the bush.
We all know where this is going.
God exists and Jesus died for our sins.
Time would still tick even without entropy or thermodynamics.
And how would you even know that scientifically without experimental proof?
@@Resmith18SRbecause time is a one way street. Entropy is not.
@@stellarwind1946 The Law of Thermodynamics isn't correct in saying that entropy always increases?
Clocks tick.
Time is how we think about it.
I am sticking with Genesis
The incorrect assumption of time symmetry pops up again. I don't understand this persistent myth. Processes CANNOT be reversed in time in exactly the same way as they move forward through time. It is completely untrue. Playing the tape backwards DOES NOT put the broken plate back together. You might think that for a few seconds as you watch the pieces of the broken plate gather off the kitchen floor and reassemble into a plate but the moment those pieces make contact the illusion ends. They DO NOT fuse back together into a plate. Take every single bit of energy and matter in the room and reverse the arrow and it will not put the plate back together. It's a false assumption. A bad axiom.
Change unfolds. An operational definition of time in physics, does not address the nature of time in philosophy.
What exactly is Tyson's legacy? 6 championship fights, 2 top wins (Vlad, Wilder), 2 failed drug tests, backdated ban, fascist religious diatribes, eternal bs and dodging, and finally one of his cherry picks bites back. He has no real legacy better than Max Baer.
Time reversal symmetry = recurrent system. So basically a clock. Non reversal symmetry = irreversible system with uniform probability distribution. So basically life and time as we know it (according to philosopher of science David Wallace)
I guess the first retains its energy in the hamiltonian and the second one kind of doesn't. You can make a presentist formalism out of this (thermal time) which is kind of cool
Motion is the most precious sign of life,
if there were NO Motion, there would be NO Life,
'Time is the Shadow' of Motion, (Stuff-side)
Time do Only exist in the Consciousness
of Living Beings, (Life-Side)
We may be in agreement.
Every particle is moving but
out of a virtually infinite number of possible directions,
each particle is moving in only one.
There is no moving 'forward' or 'backward'.
There is only movement.
And time is no more than the concept we use
to think about relative movement.
Yaeh, 'Motion', become Time, and time become 'Time-Spaces', (Relative moments)
in our Memory/Consciousness, (Life-side)
The Motion-Ocean, is a REAL Illusion,
maintained by the Motion-Princip, headline
of a set of creator-principles, most importent, the Perspective-Princip, and the Contrast-Princip. (As make Feeling into Sensing)
Time is asymmetric. Our perception of it is not and cannot be, except through mathematics. If every moment is the present and we conciously live in the present, several things are true simultaneously. There are only presents. Seemingly (from our perspective) sequentially arranged for the present to become the past and the future to become the present, as we move forward in time. From our perspective, as on the frames of a video, we see the egg is in a sequential change from whole to broken as it falls to the floor. If the shell was transparent, we would see the yolk move to the rear of the shell because of inertia. We will never see the egg rise from the floor, reassemble and come to rest, whole on the edge of the table. So as the observer, we force time into a forward movement even though it is in fact directionally agnostic.
The reason i dislike the assumptions of David is that it lacks life and can never compete with the now in any form. If one element, the water wipes away your lab, what can you do? You lack perspective, perspinuity, and acuasal can-do attitude to life and now.
Albert is supreme in deploying nonsense to expose nonsense in Physics.
A very clever pseudo-magician whose contributions are meaningless and trivial.
I enjoyed listening to Albert’s responses to Khun’s pompous rhetoric.
Excellent interview
You want to solve now and account for the past. Jokes
Even with billiard balls, if you watch the break in reverse, you would know that you are seeing it in reverse... If the balls all slam together and pop the cue ball out, you wold know it was reversed. The reversal only works on simple collisions, not on numerous balls in collision.
Utter nonsense
Human beings are the only species on Earth that are concerned about Time, the measurements of Time and what it really means to us and the Universe. Proof of that is has anyone ever seen a bear or a chimpanzee wearing a Rolex? 😂
Migrating animals care about time, their hunters care about time, just on a longer scale, months instead of minutes. We need to be aware of time for so many things we do from leading a baseball to advancing on a Yellow and getting to the Moon or Asteroid Beuno. .
@@streamofconsciousness5826 Not the same as humans and as I said have you ever seen a bear or a migrating bird wearing a Rolex or a Patek ?
Hahahahaha... you should stop deluding yourselves assuming that there is zero evidence for new fundamental laws of physics and mathematics.
Oh, wow. The sound doesn’t match the images.
As for my time… watching this was a waste of it.
Gentlemen, what good is an arrow that bends all over the space like a boiled spaghetti? 😄
Guys shows time reverse symetry though math model. However in real phich reality his time reverse symetry is Impossible an emperism verification. Guys keep out this problem he is bluff phich.
You are not making sense.
Again, Cyclical Universe model by Penrose, provides an easy explanation...
His cyclic universe (however I love Sir roger Penrose) has an error and that is the information problem. I believe in a cyclic universe but then you need a good solution for entropy. Something that does not evoke infiniteness.
The deeper you understand CCC model, the more you see explanation to every puzzle.. And infinity is not a problem, but yes, working with it is not easy, just ask the multi-verse guys... The biggest issue with it, is how to reconcile with the quantum physics, and that is a problem for all of physics.@@blijebij