I'm the guy that didn't have the great experience. I haven't looked at the other comments so I might be the only one disappointed. My sick feelings started with the ordering process. After less than a hour passed I called back to add checkering to the build order. My change of heart got me billed a extra 30 bucks because they said I had to cancel the first order and start over. I then had to resubmit the changed order and pay for the stock adding the checkering this time. The stock came quickly and it looks real nice with the action installed. Unfortunately mine has a problem that didn't surface immediately and they tell you that if you have any mods to the stock you don't have a warranty anymore. So with that said, my light sanding in the barrel channel so that it would be truly a free floated Barrel channel keeps me from returning the bad stock. I want to be clear about the real issue. With lightly tightened action screws the clip laches. If I torque them to a mild 12 inch pounds the magazine does not catch correctly. The plastic magazine catch they're using now has a fitment problem..it pulls too deep into the stock. I've already paid for this stock to be worked on by a professional gun smith. He machined a spacer to create the proper spacing for my magazine catch. It not a paperweight anymore.. Not because Boyd's made it good. I called and asked them about the issue..They told me that some people put a piece of leather under the catch to take up any inaccurate spacing. I didn't like their service after the sale and I didn't like the quality of their product. But that's just me complaining.. they do look nice...but I'm not buying another one.
I got the axis about a year ago. J-B welded the lock gonna put in a wire brushed welding rod down the length of the stock and fill it for stability. Im thinking kitty hair fiberglass car repair filler. I fill the shoulder stock end with extra ammo to add weight for recoil . As it is now I love it. Never had a problem. I did get a trigger kit to bring down the trigger pull so its doing great. For the money no one should complain. It is what it is.
I am working on a243 axis. I cut a channel under the barrel on the factory stock. A piece of1/4 inch key stock fits in it. Next I'm going to use bondo with fiberglass strands in it. Did the same with a 111 in 243. It stiffened the stock well.
I appreciate this review and you putting your experience out there in an open way. I recently bought a Boyds stock and they have been great. The stock arrived very quickly, around a week and it was custom, not a standard order. When I got it, my Savage Axis II dropped in perfect. Customer service was really helpful as well, I contacted them a couple times before purchasing and they were helpful. I was disappointed in a cosmetic issue and they let me send it back and paid the return shipping and no fees. They were very responsive and helpful. My only real complaint is they really up-charge you in a hurry. A $150 stock turns into $250 pretty quick if you change LOP and swap the cheap plastic with the metal hardware it should be. Still beats the competition handily. Also they have pretty smoking deals in their “Rapid Fire” section I assume from returns. I definitely wish they were as cheap as they used to be, but they were so far below everyone else I think supply/demand and lack of competition let them raise their prices closer to the rest of the market.
Thank you for commenting! I'm happy to see Boyds has upped their delivery time. In the year or so leading up to this video, they had slowed to a snail's pace. At least one or two commenters here had mentioned it to me, but I had not experienced delays that exceeded the estimates posted on Boyds' website. The customization charges are one of the weirdest things about how they do business. They charge extra for not finishing the stock. I can't wrap my mind around that. There's no ability to add on steel trigger guards for the Axis stocks, which is silly. I have a bunch of unused plastic trigger guards now, and, as I mentioned, they charge the same to ship a single trigger guard as they do a complete rifle stock. There are occasionally some good deals in the Rapid Fire section. I think that's where I found the birch stocks I reviewed elsewhere on this channel. Still, it's something of a crap shoot trying to find a diamond in the rough.
I had a savage 12 built for long range matches. I then decided to go with the Pro-varmiter stock. I began shooting it and was never satisfied with the groups because of unseen fliers. I took the action out of the stock and found that the lamination had seperated under the action. I called Boyd's to see if their was anything that they could do and was told that because the stock had been bedded that the warranty had been voided and that there was nothing they could do about the problem. So they lost a customer because de-lamination of the stock had nothing to do with the bedding.
I've tried talking with Boyds and while I have not purchased anything from them yet, I am probably going to go with Bell and Carlson after this video. Yeah as of now it is a $300 stock but a Bell is %100 impervious to weather and I don't think you can beat a lifetime warranty. Granted it's a limited lifetime but I've yet to see any type of warranty on Boyds stocks.
As far as I can tell, their Axis stocks are the ones that fell off the value cliff. I haven't seen much of the rest of their products since then. I couldn't tell you how other models are faring. Thanks for watching!
I understood your video consensus perfectly fine. Not just a small increase in cost but an overwhelmingly price jump... add the diminishing quality in parts and the increase is just that much more. In incense higher price less quality, So... lets call it double dipping in the consumers pockets. One would hope for a small increase and keep the same or upgrade the quality not the other way around. Your video made logical sense... for those paying attention. And here is the other catch... ship a trigger-guard for $16 which cost less than $3 to ship. Shoot lots and stay safe.
I've got to disagree with this video. If you buy a Savage Axis because you want a fair rifle for a cheap price, then complain this much about a cheap replacement stock for a (even today in 2020) ridiculously low price for what you get, then you'd probably be better off buying a good rifle that comes with a stock you don't need to replace. It'd probably be about the same price by the time you get done tricking out the Axis, especially if you're going to put a Sharp Shooter Supply stock on it. And, at the end of the day, if you decide to sell your Axis, it's still just an Axis and will pretty much be worth about what an out-of-the-box Axis is worth. I bought a Boyds stock for my Marlin X7VH 22-250 last year (2019). The fit and finish were perfect and it makes one elongated hole at 200 yards in a 3-shot group, so I do have some experience with Boyds and I'm not just trolling you on a subject I know nothing about. In fact, I was so pleased with my Boyds stock, I'm ordering one for my 7MM Rem Mag Model 70 Winchester that came with a synthetic stock.
We can disagree about whether or not Boyds' Savage Axis stocks are a good value for a Savage Axis build, but the facts remain: the price has gone up substantially, and the quality has gone down substantially. Whether or not the Axis itself is a good candidate for a custom rifle build is an interesting conversation that I can see going either way (though I'm clearly on the affirmative side), but it's not the topic of this video.
Just bought a Heritage in Nutmeg with scale engraving in Fleur de’Lis pattern for my Marlin X7 30-06 my grandfather bought it for me years ago and I wanted the design to reflect some of the rifles he had. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Boyd’s so I decided they were the company I wanted to go with. I’m excited to see how it turns out.
Boyds does the typical corporate bait and switch. They build a good rep on a decent product then cheapen the product and raise the price. I won't buy them anymore because you never know which iteration your going to get.
Made in America by Americans, it is basic economics supply and demand. Demand is high, production must increase which increases tooling and operator cost in order to continue to fill orders at a set pace. $150 dollars for a finished stock is still a great price. People keep commenting on HS and Bell and Carlson stocks both of which cost more than the axis did.
I have an At-One stock on my Remington. The stock rocks and had monor fit issues which were easily resolved. Boyd's has the worst customer service I have ever dealt with. The wait to order other than stock parts is lengthy and expensive. They wanted to charge me $17.00 shipping for a 2 oz small part! Love their stocks, but the customer service is great before you buy and horrible once you buy!
I recently purchased a Savage axis with the intent of using it as the basis for a winter project. Not being a big fan of tupperware stocks I planned to replacing it with a boyds. You've given me some food for thought and I think your points are valid. Boyd's has the reputation of providing a decent product at a reasonable price it's a shame to see them slipping. I believe I will look elsewhere for a replacement stock, thanks for your review.
After several attempts with different guns, i have never had a good experience with Boyds. My experience also is they have some of the worst customer support in the industry. I will not waste my time with Boyds.
They seem to have fallen off in the last year or so. Prior to that I never had a problem. Items shipped in reasonable timeframes and my only return was handled quickly. These days that is not their reputation for good reason.
When I was looking for an after market stock, I had some questions and called Boyd's. The service representative that answered the phone wasn't particularly helpful and could not or would not answer, what I would call "technical" questions, I decided to go with Richard' Micro Fit stocks. Richard's had a "dual grip Thumb hole style" that I liked. Prices seemed less than Boyd's. I went with a solid walnut stock with rose wood for-end and pistol grip cap. They also have laminated stocks, which by the way, tend to be heavier than solid walnut. Some of Boyd's stock designs are really nice with a larger assortment of color options and you can get lazer checkering which Richard's does not offer. There are pro's and con's for each company. Maybe next time I will go with Boyd's, who know's? I am very happy with my Richard's "dual thumb hole" sporter stock for my 7mm-08.
I know what you mean about Boyds' customer service. Recently I was looking into the aluminum pillar option they offer for $57 on some of their stocks and why their Axis stocks only get one pillar. Not only did I have to provide them the right answer (the cheap, plastic magazine latch surrounds the front action screw), they wouldn't explain why Boyds still charges the full $57 for half the work and half the material. I'm willing to overlook them marking up what is maybe $2 worth of thin-walled aluminum tube to almost $60. I'm even willing to overlook the fact that pillars are kind of pointless without a metal trigger guard and magazine catch. But I am deeply disappointed that they can't own up to what I see as the obvious reason why they are effectively charging Axis owners (and Savage 10/110 owners, as it happens) double. So, no. I am not pleased with their technical knowledge or their business practices.
It looks like the cheapest SSS stock for the Axis is 225 unless I missed something. You can get the Boyd stock with the metal trigger guard, and then the aluminum front clip and pillar bedding kit from V3 for a total of 191.00. So it fixes the issues with the Boyd stocks, and is still cheaper than the competition. In the long run that's what people want when buying Boyd's to begin with a budget laminate stock. Seems like someone should make a video on that. If you are building a Boyds Axis Savage you need to get these three things stock, trigger guard, and aluminum front clip with pillar bedding kit her is why (that way we don't get charged 16 dollars shipping for a trigger guard) . I am glad I saw this video now I can get what I need to build my Axis. Thank you Dr.
That's a reasonably good point, but it raises one question and begs another. First, is the money you'd save turning a Boyds stock into a competitive product worth the time and effort? Second, are Boyds Axis stocks still as good a value as they were? I don't know if the cost savings are really worth it. That really is something each individual might have to decide for him or herself. Your estimated difference of $35 (I get closer to $31) is a savings of 15% over the cost of the SSS stock, but-in the long run-it's only 3% of the total cost of a completed rifle like Taxis. It seems like we're probably on the same page about the second question.
Agreed each person has to make the decision if the time and effort is worth it. Granted I am a novice so I can only go by what I have seen online, and clearly you would know this more than I but it seems that clicking a couple extra parts for order is all it would be. It seems like people will already be pillar bedding and action bedding these stocks. If that is not correct I apologize for assuming and please correct me but I have been planning on this and learning how to do it because of that. I would have assumed the same would have to have been done to the SSS stock at least action bedding, didn't know if you would need to do any pillar bedding. Another advantage for Boyd other then cost even thought its only 30ish dollars is multiple designs are available. My issue with the SSS stock for the Axis is I don't like the design. I like the Boyd featherweight thumbhole and Pro Varmint. I wish SSS made their LVT for the AXIS. Dr. other than the issues that you outlined with the Boyd's which seem to at least to me be addressable is there a reason I should look past the aesthetics and buy the SSS stock or some other stock? I actually like the Choate Super Sniper I think its called but its available for the Axis.
Oops! On the SSS stocks I miss read. I thought the Pro hunter was the only Axis compatible stock. The LVT does work on the Axis. I think I will order that one The design features are worth the extra money to me. I like the design best with the adjustable cheek well. The fact that its pillar bedded already will save me some time and possibly money since I have never done it and would not want to mess that up.
"Does the quality of a product change with the quality of its parts?" Yes it does change. Also in manufacturing whoever is doing QC has an off day can affect what leaves the factory.
Sure, but human error in QC doesn't represent a systemic decrease in quality the way a switch to low quality components does. I don't know if I mentioned in this video that one of my Axis stocks did have a QC slip up (delaminated layers), and Boyds made it right. Kudos to them for that. However, when I asked for them to rectify the use of a low quality component, I was told I was out of luck. Now, given the location of the delamination, I could have probably fixed it on my own or at least worked around it, but it was a brand new stock that was sold as complete and that I paid good money for. Something was accidentally deficient, and Boyds recognized they should fix it. Compare this to the use of plastic parts. Something was intentionally deficient, and Boyds kept making it more deficient and did so without warning their customers they were doing so.
I dont mind it when companies cut slight corners to save on costs but that should reflect on the end users product price too. What I do hate is when they make a lesser product and then INCREASE price. So I get your beef there. I really do. But some of your arguments seem a bit nitpicky. Which isn't to say they're not valid points necessarily... just personal preference and issues that are specific to your setup and caliber etc. These are STILL some of the cheapest upgrades you can do to a savage axis or like gun. With probably that best results over factory equipment. The accuracy difference is usually night and day difference. Butbi do agree... if they were gonna raise the price (which is kinda understandable) they really shouldnt have started making plastic (shitty plastic at that) trigger guards and mag catches for their base stocks. That is very irritating and makes customers wonder about other quality concerns with their new direction.
Plastic doesn't mean diminished quality. Falling out when unbolted doesn't infer diminished quality either. Once properly installed and torqued on a rifle are there any quality issues? One would think someone who could bed an action could figure out how to adhere a piece of plastic so they could carry around their disassembled rifles with magazine in place.
Plastic *definitely* means diminished quality in this case. If Boyds decided to make their stocks entirely out of solid cheddar cheese, I doubt you'd jump to contradict anyone who complained that "Boyds stocks have really diminished in quality since they started making them out of cheese." I can't see you or anyone else saying, "Cheese doesn't mean diminished quality." But let's think...if what you said about plastic were true in reference to this video, why would every company that currently makes plastic stocks for their rifles use steel or aluminum pillars to support the action screws? I guess there might be some companies that don't, but, of the several major brands I have experience with, all of them see fit to have the action screws bear up against and deliver their clamping force via metal. It makes sense too: steel, aluminium, and brass all have lower thermal expansion and higher compressive strength than glass filled nylon. Tell me what you would think about an aluminum chassis system that used nylon pillars or a nylon V-block to connect to the receiver. And, maybe it's just a value judgment here, but I like things not to fall apart when I pick them up. This is especially true when it's an item designed to be handled. You can argue that the stock is meant to be affixed to a rifle, and, thus, would have the escutcheon assembly attached by means of the action screw. However, that's still missing the point that I shouldn't need to have to reassemble my stock in order to reassemble my rifle. I don't own any other rifle or any other Boyds stock where I need to do that. That's one of the reasons the factory Axis stocks are so ungainly. Moreover, Boyds' Axis stocks used to not have this "feature" and they were perfectly functional without needing the extra effort, just like every other rifle stock on the planet. So they changed the design to something that did the same job as the previous design but did it in a worse way. That does imply diminished quality, and that's why I inferred as much. In fact the only things that don't imply diminished quality about it are the price increases that took place alongside the design changes. So, yeah, I could have epoxied the escutcheon assembly into the stock, probably cutting some mechanical locking channels into both parts, but why? Frickin why? Why do I have to? Why would I want to? As I already established in both this reply and the video, Boyds used to do the equivalent of this (or better) at a lower cost. As I explained earlier as well, injection molded plastic is not only not ideal for the task of bearing against an action screw, it's worse than the material Boyds used to use and the material inserted in the factory injection molded stock. The stock with the escutcheon assembly in this video is on a single shot Axis I built, so I didn't need the mag catch portion of the assembly. I discarded the assembly and replaced it with a heavy, steel washer that is countersunk and epoied into the stock and backed up by a pillar. If that project were meant to be a repeater, however, I would have had to spend even more money to make my new stock as good as my cheaper, older stocks.
DrThunder88 no where in my post did I discuss cheddar cheese stocks or pillar bedding with nylon. When fully assembled on an action are there quality issues with the Boyd’s stock? Once you expand your horizons beyond savage axis you’ll find that when you disassemble many rifles out there pieces may fall or even fly off if you’re not careful. To just simply say all plastic is poor quality is just false. You could acquire the same piece in different material types but if you’re inserting a plastic magazine the harder material will accelerate the wear on mag and lead to other issues. Boyd’s is not the one stop shop for customizing a stock on the other hand they are an excellent starting point at a fair price. Especially if your dealing with a POS axis. You asked me why, just why....? I ask you the same thing about the axis.
I think Boyd's may have addressed all your concerns. I've bought 3 Boyd's stocks since 2016 and the components you mentioned were all metal, but often not included with the stock--perhaps because guys like to customize everything on their project guns anyway.
I'm interested to learn more about this development. When you say "the components [I] mentioned," can you be more specific? I only ask because I mentioned four of five plastic components, and the only two that were ever metal were the trigger guard and escutcheon. It seems strange that the mag catch plates would also be replaced with metal parts, when both front and rear had been plastic since the beginning and up until the front mag latch place was replaced with the combination escutcheon/mag latch. If all that hardware has indeed been upgraded with no significant cost increase, then Boyds deserves credit for that, but I'd definitely like some confirmation on it.
Some stocks and rifle models they only offer metal stuff with it. For the axis... the rifle hes buying for... the new standard is plastic (and not very good plastic at that) parts that have a higher failure rate. Mags get removed and reloaded a lot. Specially when you're looking for a good performing round. A plastic magazine clip is a bad idea. The trigger guard is also now standard in plastic. If a rifle is dropped the trigger guard almost always takes a substantial hit. These trigger guards will break in that scenario or in some cases just by tightening the screws too much. No bueno. These wouldnt be terribly big issues were the price to lower to match the quality OR if it at least stayed the same. But there was a significant price increase. So Boyd's is literally asking customers to pay more money for less quality. They do have the metal parts available. But for both parts you're looking at adding nearly an additional $100 to your stocks price. So essentially... the price of getting their old quality standard stocks increased by ... well... about double the price it originally was. Since these were about $150 and now for the metal parts and to accommodate their price bump you're getting into the same stock for about $300. That's ridiculous. They're still a contender tho.
Could you make the pillars longer to eliminate that plastic escutcheon? Or could you put a steel shim in whole pillar bedding it? Or is there something special about that plastic piece? If i pillar bed one, I don’t want a piece of plastic between the action bolt and the pillar. Thanks in advance.
The new plastic piece is where the Axis magazine latches into the stock, so eliminating it would mean finding a new way to attach a magazine or simply using it as a single-shot. One could run a pillar through the escutcheon, but there would need to be some way to reliably attach the pillar to the escutcheon. Epoxy with some mechanical locks might do it, and I'd considered threading the hole in the escutcheon to accept a pillar made of lamp rod. However, those would rely totally on a thin layer of epoxy and thin sections of the plastic material to hold the gun together. The best case scenario in the failure of such a joint would be the magazine not seating correctly, causing misfeeds. The worst case would let the front pillar come loose along with the front action screw. Without a bearing surface wider than the pillar channel to tighten against, the action screw isn't anchoring the action to the stock. Only the epoxy holding the pillar in place is.
I Have Ordered A Boyds At-One Fully Adjustable Stock For My Remington 770 and had it pillar bedded It Is Now A Real Tac Driver in 308... I Think Boyds Has Payed Real Attention To Detail on This Amassing Stock...
Attention to detail is important. However the AT-One suffers from a lack of focus on the bigger picture in its half-hearted attempt to try to horn in on the chassis market. Pushbutton adjustments are an excellent idea, as is the ability to take any sort of modular accessory mount, but it fails to really capitalize on either of those. Instead of trying to make an all-in-one stock that really isn't one of anything, a smarter choice would have been to enhance their already well established stocks with the AT-One technology. Pillars and bedding seem to do well for a great many rifles. We can't give Boyds credit for that though. Pillars wouldn't be too difficult for them to install, and it would be something they could say actually does contribute to accuracy of the gun itself. They could even relieve the action screw holes to make it easier for us to install them.
I seen u said you are from Michigan...which part? Im over near metro Airport..I'm really wanting to find a place to shoot a long range rifle I have been wanting to build one for a while
I'm from central Oakland County. From what I've found, there aren't many places to really stretch your rifles' legs in southeast Michigan. It seems 200 yards is the max until you get up to the Cadillac area! The Cadillac Sportman's Club, for example, has a 600 yard square range. I'm a member at Marksmanship Training Center (MTC) in Lake City, which has a steel range out to 1000 yards. I made a video about the club on my channel if you're interested!
Ok. The boyds plastic parts is a pain to see at first. What is the actual material? Some so called plastics are better than metal. The loose fit is a concern for sure, unless you are expected to install them with epoxy yourself. In the end. I can make my own stock, but, for those who cant, the boyds is a fair deal when considering the amount of work and skill required to make one.
If a restaurant were serving filet mingon, they'd do everything they could to let people know it was real filet mingon. If Boyds' plastic were better than the metal it replaced, they'd say it loud and proud. They're quick to tout any marginal improvement of accuracy their stocks can supposedly offer, so I'd say their silence on this speaks volumes. I'd also like to say comparing all plastics to all metals is highly dubious. Does silicone rubber outperform mercury? I guess it would by default, but that doesn't make it a good material for this application. I'd like to know one plastic that provides a superior bearing surface than the steel, aluminum, and brass commonly used in bottom metal parts. And then I'd like to see the cost figures compared to what I have every reason to believe is the injection molded nylon Boyds uses now.
I wish I had seen this video. I just received my Heritage stock for my Ruger American and while it looks great the fit is poor. In fact it does not fit at all and it appears I will have hours of deburring and sanding. Not happy at all.
I have to agree , they don't service what the sell, Timney trigger mods need to be inlet I found that out later on, Boyd's didn't seem to care about info on the subject.. Take the money and run I'd say as with most companies out there , few stand by what they sell.
Your reasons for dissatisfaction with Boyd's are a bit off. Shipping is not just the size of the item. It still takes a "person" to pack, print and ship that cost doesn't change. As for increase in materials; inflation is only a small percentage of that. As for quality decline. Justified. Overall I will continue to use Boyd's. To each their own.
If you're talking about Magpul's AICS-style magazines (specifically for 223 Rem and 308 Win families of cartridges), I have been very pleased with the CDiPrecision bottom metal installed on one of my Boyds Pro Varmint stocks. The cost of the part and the installation is about $150. While it's not a cheap upgrade, it does solve my major complaints with Boyds' Axis stocks. Another option that uses AICS-style mags would be a chassis, which are made for the Axis by MDT and XLR.
Let me get this straight, you're giving up on Boyd's completely because of a couple of plastic pieces? Surely there must be aftermarket parts to replace those in question. I get it, you used to get metal ones and the price has increased as well. If the stock itself is made well and it fits well, I don't see this as a deal breaker. It still seems to be an incredible deal. How much do you think a similar stock would've cost 20-30 years ago? I'm in the manufacturing business, just a laborer (a machinist actually) not an owner of a machine shop or anything, but so many people don't realize the labor that goes into things. Even in today's high tech CAD and CNC driven manufacturing, there's still a lot of labor involved in everything. My point is, it STILL seems to be an amazing deal for what you get. It should be MORE expensive, but it isn't. I'd spend fifty bucks or whatever and replace the parts myself. Still an incredible deal. Now I don't know how many Boyd's stocks (or other laminate stocks) don't fit well or de-laminate and blow up, but that doesn't seem to be an issue anywhere with anyone's stocks. I have read about the occasional fit issue with many brands, which is normally easily remedied. I have yet to see an aftermarket stock maker that doesn't say some fitting may be required. So the issue isn't so much with fit or construction, right? I only ask because I'm looking at a Boyd's stock for a Winchester Model 70 and wondered why they are so terrible and you've given up on them. I'm not convinced.
This may boil down to semantics, but maybe we can come to an understanding here. First, any argument about how much labor goes into the piece is invalid. I outline at least one of the labor saving changes they make to their manufacturing process and point out that it came hand-in-hand with a price INCREASE. Any argument about how much it would cost in ye olden days is purely speculation and also invalid. This video is about the decline in quality over the last few years. I also consider your statement that their stocks should cost more to be total bunk unless you can show me that Boyds is not making a profit or is receiving subsidies or something. Second, this is about Boyds Savage Axis stocks, not their Winchester 70 stocks, not their Mosin Nagant stocks...their Savage Axis stocks. I have no experience with any of their products beside those for Savage rifles and the Axis in particular. Their Axis stocks seem to be unique, however, in the specific, proprietary hardware they now use at the front of the magazine well. Unlike previous versions, it would be difficult to replace for the end user. If V3 Tactical hadn't just developed a replacement piece, there would be no aftermarket support for it. Third, "quality" and "value" are nebulous terms, but I think most people would agree that "value" is a function of quality compared to price. "Quality", then-and I'll avoid philosophy I don't understand-would simply be property of being desirable. Now, to me it's less desirable to buy a stock I have to fix right out of the box to make it as good as the stock it's replacing. If it hasn't got pillars, let alone metal-to-metal action screw contact, it is already showing at least some functional inferiority to the factory plastic. One man's opinion: a part with a net cost of at least $160 should be an upgrade. You're in manufacturing, so let me ask you: can you make a superior product with inferior parts? Does the quality of a product change with the quality of its parts?
Ill Agree that its "not right" for a company to up the price and down the parts on a product, but as an American all i can say is thats how capitalism and inflation work. Boyds was making a superior product 5 years ago because 5 years ago they were a Niche market, we didnt have a quarter the amount of gun owners we have today 5 years ago. The whole country was under the influence that somehow someway our guns were gonna get taken away and the market exploded, everyone and their mother went out and bought guns and introducing the budget rifles to the scene (Axis, American, 788, 783). Alot of those people boosted the entire firearms market and companies like Boyds now took on twice the work in a short amount of time, is that an excuse? Idk but anytime inflation like that happens companies turn to faster and cheaper ways to turn out product and have to take on more overhead which leads to price increases. They have doubled the amount of guns they sell stocks for to expand their market. Does that mean quality control is suffering? Probably, but like other have said if your issue with the savage axis stock is your "assuming" quality could be suffering because a metal part was replaced with a plastic part, im sorry but all i have to say is like others and yourself have said"you get what you pay for" a Rifle Stock doesnt NEED to be over $200, BUT they are and boyds has been able to send out nice ALTERNATIVE options for people to change up their rifle for under $200 and I give huge props to them for that, that alone gets my business, if i want a product out of the box 100% ready to go and gives me 100% accuracy upgrade, i have to assume im going to spend more than $150 to get it, like the guy about stated spend the extra $50 if it bothers you THAT much, to me, a plastic essentially "spacer" in the gun stock that has nothing to do with how the gun overall functions when its all put together isnt reason enough to go out and make a video about how your GIVING UP on them.... just my opinion tho.
First of all, I never said that Boyds deliberate decrease in value for their Axis stocks was "not right". Nor do I think I implied that. This video and my replies make no mention of the moral rectitude of Boyds' business plans. Have I called for a ban on Boyds or even a boycott? No. I am expressing my knowledge of their specific product line and how that's influencing my buying decisions in the future. All I am trying to do is educate other consumers so they can make similarly informed decisions about spending their increasingly devalued money on a product freely offered for sale...that's how capitalism and inflation work without being oligarchical. Second, it seems like you're speculating quite a bit in your response (or at least not stating figures I can independently verify), which is unusual considering your critique of my position is that I'm "assuming" metal parts are superior to plastic. It's fair to say that I am operating under the assumption that metal-to-metal contact is superior to metal-to-plastic for action screw to stock interface, but I think I can be forgiven for that considering the ubiquity of pillar bedding and bedding blocks in precision rifle stocks and the fact that none of them are plastic. Even Savage Axis factory stocks have steel pillars with metal bearing surfaces, and pillars are widely reputed as accuracy-enhancing fixtures in factory and custom rifles. I would like to do a comparison with several Boyds stocks with various types of bedding to see which, if any, is the most beneficial, but unless there is some evidence that a plastic escutcheon is as good or better than its metal alternative, I'm not willing to go against the collected wisdom of the firearms community. Finally, what your assumptions about how much a drop-in, bolt-on, accuracy-enhancing stock should cost is entirely immaterial since that's not what we're talking about. Moreover, I don't need to assume what the Boyds stock would cost me in 2013; I still have the invoice of what it DID cost. Boyds stocks had always been a good jumping off point for building an actual accuracy-enhancing stock. If it hadn't been for the replacement magazine clip you mentioned, it would have ceased to be. You're right that Boyds provides a decent Axis stock for someone who wants a stock that looks nice, fits well, and works okay. For someone who is looking for a foundation to get some additional performance out of their rifle, however, the Boyds Axis stock has fallen short, which was the point of this video.
DrThunder88 I feel that your dodging around simple logic of the fact that regardless of how you want to word it, the name of your video is "Giving up on boyds axis stocks" , and all were trying to say is although we respect YOUR decision to give up on a product for your reasons, we don't understand why a price increase (from inflation) and a few plastic vs metal pieces are enough to steer someone away from an overall budget stock.
Late to the dance here. I am just wandering into this arena by virtue of embarking on a "$1,000 rifle build for the 1,000-yard shot" project. (Do not know if I will achieve that, but it will be fun trying.) I found nothing in your video to be objectionable. Plainly, it's your opinion backed up by facts that influence your buying decisions. And, clearly, you are entitled to your opinion. None of your video was strident or over-the-top yet It is surprising how butt-hurt some get over a simple video. I mean, this isn't presidential politics or life or death -- unless one is talking about some prairie dogs. Thanks for your time and effort and the data points you provided.
Pre-firstly, I am complaining about a 40% price increase accompanying a quality decrease. I don't care if it's a $1.50 or $1,500 stock, it's a worthwhile complaint for a consumer. Firstly, I like Howa a great deal, but their guns are not fun to build the way Savages are.
Fun is a very subjective term, Howas don't have any junk bits to deal with. I'm getting a Pro Varmint stock for my new Howa bull barrel 300 win mag and will let you know how that goes. I won't get the barrelled action until the new year so it's gonna be a while.
You're right about fun being subjective. I should have said Howas were more expensive and less accessible to build the way Savages are. I think we can agree that is objectively true. The major difference between the two builds being barrel changes, which Savage made famously easy and cheap in 1958. I'm not sure what you mean by "junk bits to deal with". If this refers to Savage rifles themselves containing junk bits, that's fine. They're also cheap. I'm willing to pay less for a system that uses lower quality parts. If it refers to junk in the Savage aftermarket, I think you'll find this video is about that very topic and how it had previously not been the case. Please do let me know about your Howa build. It sounds a good deal like my magnum Axis, but I'd love to see your approach.
I love going to a range with my axis .308 heavy barrel. pillar and action bedded. Slightly modified stock trigger. Then shooting a half inch group at 100 yards with brown bear ammo. while some guy sits next to me with his sexy Rem. 700 "or whatever other rifle is so much better than my Savage" and his hand loads can barely hit paper. But it because he is experimenting with different loads. Its like the Glock thing. To a Glock owner all other pistols are junk. Take a good look at a glock. They look a lot like a Hi-Point but the Hi-Point is ugly.
I just ordered one anyway for my Ruger but YEAH the plastic parts are a complete let down with no metal options easily available. Gonna see if I can get a buddy to make that mag catch at his shop.
My dad purchased 1, his friend purchased 1, and I have purchased 1. I am currently looking at getting another for my Remington 223. We have never had a problem with our stocks. I highly recommend their stocks. Very good quality. Did you call/email then about the plastic part not fitting?
Boyd's has the worst customer support I have encountered anywhere in the gun industry. Good luck with support if you have an issue with their products.
I have several Savage Axis Rifles and the factory stocks can get as good of accuracy as anything you can buy aftermarket. The barrel lug can be moved to better center the barrel to the stock. You have metal to metal. Having said that one sometimes likes the looks of a different stock or want a better fit or more weight. If you are a hobbyist as you are you do what it is to make it work to suit you with what ever you have to work with. Have fun with your future choices. I hope that if you make the wrong ones you write as negatively on them as you have Boyd's. I am a gun nut like you but will be ordering a Boyd's Thumb Hole Stock for my .308 AXIS when I get it I will see how it does out of the box and work with it. But I won't be going out of my way like you to hurt a company that still gives most people the best bang for the buck. You have a right to your opinion and you certainly are holding tight to your argument. You have convinced yourself and that is just fine, with all you have stated it seems it would be tough for you to ever go back even if all the other stock companies don't do any better. I know some folks won't believe me on what I said about the stocks that come on the rifles. But it's true they can be played with a bit to tweak them and they will shoot great when done right. Some folks are even buying into Boyd's are bad stocks from your negativity. Changing the stock is generally done to the rifle for cosmetics or someone looking for an easy fix for promised better accuracy, all B.S. I am afraid. I have a lot of guns and they all shoot good with factory stocks some bedded some not.
I have a savage mk2 fv-sr and a savage model 10 fcp-sr both completely stock and both shoot phenomenal. I'm not much into building guns. But my friends who have Boyd's stocks have nothing but good things to say about them.
I was thinking of ordering a pro varmint for my Ruger American stainless steel long action. But from what I hear the trigger guard is plastic and you can't really talk your screws down to spec without cracking that plastic trigger guard. And I ask Boyd's a question about that weather I could get a metal trigger guard and they have yet to respond. Can you shed any light on this?
That wouldn't surprise me, and it's still a bit disappointing. In my video on Boyds' birch stocks, I mentioned that the plastic trigger guard on the Ruger American stock can be replaced with a steel Savage trigger guard. I don't know if that holds true for the Pro Varmint as well, but at least the Ruger stock included the recoil lugs.
The whole reason for that stupid plastic "thing" is so you can use the factory action screws. I tossed that out first thing. When I bedded pillars in it I made the front pillar long enough so it extends to match the lip that the plastic "thing" sits on. I just used bedding to fill the small u shaped useless void they carve out and fill with plastic. I then made a new magazine clip out of flat aluminum. I got an 1-1/4'x28tpi. hardened screw from Menards and cut it to size. With the new boyds stock my factory screw only when into the action like 1.5 turns to get tight. That's not good. The new screw goes 3.5 turns in. You do need to be careful that the new screw isn't too long and protrudes into the receiver. That can damage the bolt head. All boyds needs to do is ship them with a metal magazine retainer clip and a longer action screw and its a much better product. They are maybe saving $2 per stock by using garbage plastic parts. The trigger guard should be included or at least an option you can select during your stock build when you order it.
I am looking for a new stock for my 111 trophy hunter. Thought Boyd's was ok but know I will look elsewhere due to this reason. Thanks for the review it has changed my mind.
im looking for a composite/plastic (better than factory) stock. i dont want wood, and have no use for a chassis. am i SOL or is the laminated stuff just as good or better than composite?
Are you looking for a stock for the Savage Axis? While there are fiberglass stocks out there, there are none made for the Axis. Similarly, there are plastic stocks with aluminum bedding blocks, but none of them are for that model. As far as options for an Axis stock, you're looking at a very choices: Boyds laminate or hardwood, SSS laminate, MDT chassis, and used factory plastic and (more recently) wood stocks. I tend to use "composite" sparingly when describing stock material because it could refer to two different things. I refer to injection molded, glass reinforced Nylon as "plastic" and hand-laid, fiberglass/epoxy laminates as "fiberglass". If I had one of those trees that my dad implied money grows on, I'd take a fiberglass stock over both wood and plastic. However, most of the shooting I do doesn't need a fiberglass stock, so I get away with laminate wood. Most manufacturers use plastic because it's light and cheap. What you decide is ultimately going to come down to what kind of rifle you're building. Does it need to be lightweight? Is it going to be exposed to all kinds of weather? Are you figuring the cost of bedding into your build?
I need some advice I just got a boyds at one stock and need to remove the preinstalled recoil lug from that stock. How can I get it off wirhout damaging the stock
Bought a Boyds, paid $25 for a 1" recoil pad, was charged and it didn't come with the stock. That's like ordering a combo from McDonald's and forgetting the fries. Except the combo wasn't $230.
I agree on the pro varmint coated stocks. I wouldn't recommend buying the black or green coated models. If you are going to buy a Boyd's stock DO NOT buy the black or green coated models.
Everything has gone up. And make sure you tell them metal part. Yes I believe they sound make it where they just is metal parts even if they upgrade and put it in. The cost. It's not going to break you. I do slot of body's stock. Never had any thang wrong with body's stocks. For me.
I have a Savage Axis in 22-250 and this is exactly what I did with mine.... I put a Prairie Hunter on mine and it improved my accuracy quite a bit.... Although it may have been the Criterion Match grade barrel I put on it. But none the less, It's now a tack driver.... And I'm hitting pint sized targets at 400+ yards.... And I have the stock that has the little plastic piece that holds the mag in.... You will not find a stock even close to this price that will give you the same accuracy. There aren't many stock builders that even cater to the Axis design.... I know because I've been looking for the last 3 years for a good laminate replacement for the plastic Tupperware stock. Just my 2 cents...
I'm glad you like your stock, but you give it too much credit for improving accuracy. Even if it did, your one data point is undermined somewhat by the fact that you replaced the stock and the barrel. My experience with the stocks has not been a significant increase in accuracy if at all when controlling my variables. They do look nice and provide a better platform for improvement compared to factory stocks.
I think the reason the stocks are like this is because most people are going to pillar bed and bed the action... this stock makes it easy to do that. The price increase is a given... name something that the price HASN'T gone up on, that's just how business goes.
This may not be clear from the video, but the new plastic escutcheon assembly prevents the rifle from being pillared properly. People who buy these stocks intending to pillar and bed them (like me, which is pretty clear in the video) will be sorely disappointed. Even injection molded stocks usually have a steel insert that extends from the bottom of the receiver to the bottom of the stock. On a Boyds Savage Axis stock, it's no longer possible to get metal-to-metal contact on the front action screw without permanently removing the magazine. That is to say, it's not possible unless one purchases another aftermarket part from another vendor. And I did address the cost increase substantially outstripping inflation. If I'm paying 20-40% more for something than I was three years ago, it's because there's a scarcity not because of our country's financial policy.
@@DrThunder88 Hmmm... interesting. I was able to get metal to metal contact by buying a metal cnc machined mag catch for the front pillar. Bedding for an axis is kinda different than most rifles but it's doable. I agree though that I shouldn't have to buy extra parts to do a bedding job. However.... by the time a person spends the money in upgrading parts they could've just spent more money on a higher quality rifle. Not saying Savage is low quality, it's an extremely accurate gun, but Savage does save money by going cheap on the factory stock's.
i think the russians had the better idea, keep it simple, no metal of any kind on the stock, use leather and lace... you can make this cheek pad from an old boot shaft, some padding and leather lace
i think the russians had the better idea, keep it simple, no metal of any kind on the stock, use leather and lace... you can make this cheek pad from an old boot shaft, some padding and leather lace
You're very kind, but I'm strictly a hobbyist! Apart from not having a whole lot of time with work and school, even the upgrades that wouldn't require the barreled action be sent with the stock make me worry about ATF and ITAR compliance. Thank you so much for watching and the kind words!
Just got a boyds AT -1 stock for my savage Axis 2 I’m a little disappointed once installed onto my action I could not get the magazine into the stock and if you force it in I might break the plastic clip on the mag or have it stuck in the rifle.
Lol Yeah you're right. What gunsmith would think the parts of one trigger assembly filled the same dimensions as the parts of another trigger assembly on the same or similar rifle. Silly me. Thanks for pointing that out. Rotflmao.
You should have mentioned Boyds crappy customer service! Worst int he industry! Everything else can be dealt with, but there's no getting around crappy customer service!
To be fair to Boyds, the issues I did have with one or two stocks, they took care of relatively quickly. I also seem to have been lucky in terms of timing my orders for when they were not running more than a month or two behind. I am not immune to the horror stories I've read about their customer service, however, so I believe there have been some people who've been royally boned by Boyds. I just can't say I'm one of them.
my first synthetic stock was purchased fro gander mountain in 1989... ram line for the win mdl70 in 30-06.. i was stationed in alaska and it shaved about 2 pounds off the premium walnut stock... it worked very well there since there were no trees there, just tundra... when i got back to minnesota, i found this was the worst nightmare stock on the planet, if you looked at it, it made this loud and hollow noise, sure am glad i saved that premium walnut stock... that thing is a tack driver out to 300 yards plus... but in Mn you can only see 30 to 75 yards in the big deer woods... switched to a 1X4 power scope....poof a true white tail deer slayer
I bought two laminate stocks and have had nothing but trouble: split wood; front screw comes loose no matter what. At first, thought had installed wrong; second proved it was not me. Hate the front plastic insert.
Looks like the SSS Pro Hunter starts at $225. With that, you don't have to buy a separate metal trigger guard ($14 from Boyds), bedding pillars ($62 from Boyds, and you only get one), or an aluminum magazine catch ($35 from Boyds). So that's $111 worth of add-ons to a colorful laminate Pro Varmint ($210), bringing the price of a comparable Boyds stock to $321. A bit closer to the $359 SSS stocks you mentioned, and substantially higher than the $225 Pro Hunter, even if we include an extra $10 for a spray can of clear finish. Boyds has had been a good value in the past, but, as I outlined in this now fairly old video, the price increased significantly as the quality decreased. Things could be different now; I haven't built an Axis in a while, so I hadn't even glanced at Boyds Axis stocks in years. I also don't feel like giving the company an unlimited series of chances to take more of my money and give me increasingly inferior products.
I put a custom thumbhole from Boyds on a Savage .22 Mark ii FV-SR bull barrel and had excellent service. They had metal trigger guards and magazine plate so I ordered with the stock 12 days before xmas and had it by xmas eve. Great drop in snug fit. Great looking stock. Now have a very tight shooting little rifle that is a tack driver with a 3x9x40 scope. I will buy from them again for sure. I did double check everything before ordering with them just to verify I wasn't missing anything. Smart phone call to make.
I think th video was very informative. Not sure what all of the other stink it about. I dont have a lot of money and have to save to get what ever upgrades are wanted, usually after my initial purchase of the firearm. I can not afford a Howa. The Axis has very good reviews for accuracy out of the box. The stock and the trigger are the weak points. These Boyd stocks will not be one of my choices for my Axis at this point due to this review. I hope Boyds take care of their chooses for more profit vs. Quality of their products and more so their name sake. Thank you for what appears to be a factual and honest review.
The only laminate problems I really remember were with the texture-painted laminate, which is not (or at least was not) the same material as the color laminates. Similarly, the grain of solid wood should be running roughly the same way as the layers of a laminate, so the potential for damage would still be there. I don't know how the strength of solid wood across the grain compares with the strength of laminated wood across its layers, especially in as thin a section as the bottom inletting on an Axis stock. Either way a pillar takes the load off the wood.
I have a Savage mk2 22lr with a Boyd's tacticool stock. The pull length for me is a bit long. After seeing the Graco/Grayco adjustable buttplate on your sock I would seriously consider going this route.
It's not terribly convenient to install or use, but it is a pretty robust design. Having a powerful sander or grinder is a big help in installing it. For example, I used a 2x48 Kalamazoo belt grinder with a 1.5HP motor to shape mine. I just wish there were tool-free ways to adjust the settings, because every adjustment screw uses a different Allen wrench.
All I am saying if you don’t like the stocks don’t buy them I’m just glad you can get a quality stock for a good price they have the metal parts for the plastic ones you don’t like for sale everybody is having to cut corners
@@billpippin7624 That's exactly the point of the video. I even put it in the title. I don't know how else to explain this. They were good at a good price with good components eight years ago, but, by the time I made this video in 2016, they were made with progressively worse components at progressively worse prices. That's why I made the video saying I was no longer buying them. You can make excuses for the company if you want. I think it's healthy for people to have different opinions, but Boyds cares as little about my opinion as they do about their apologists'. What I'm concerned with is people who aren't as familiar with Boyds Savage Axis stocks as I am may get suckered into thinking they are what they used to be.
Considering all the Boyds Savage Axis stocks that you bought since 2013, do you feel the quality has changed, especially in the transition from metal to plastic hardware?
i had to put steel inserts installed & savage model 11 stock was way off on bolt alignment & i did not have 3 months to wait a 3/4 in dowel & glue & big washer and a die-more grinder to make the action fit right! to me it got people not measuring what was ordered! ps i ordered right lath on bolt measure!! if the people working there can't read a rule!
oh you used the s word!! if you look on boyds site sharp shooters supply is one of their dealers!! wonder who is making those stocks for fred? not a big fan of sss. not going to bash them either. the stocks they offer are very nice looking stocks.
I didn't know SSS is a Boyds dealer, but the profiles and inletting of the two companies' stocks are very dissimilar. I wonder if Boyds sells stocks to SSS or if they just sell them laminated blanks.
I don't know either. I ordered a pro varmint stock today myself for my .300 win mag 112. I have a hart barrel on it. it has been producing just under 2 inch 5 shot groups at 500 yards. haven't had the time to try out my hand loads yet. thinking about a bartlein bull barrel for it. I ordered the stock with a bull barrel channel.
Very nice! My .300 Win Mag Savage Axis has a Pro Varmint stock. Boyds doesn't make a Axis stock for long action chamberings with a "bull" (actually a varmint) barrel channel, so I had to hog it out with sandpaper.
Sharpshooter Supply stock will be more than double the price but you do get what you pay for. I do hope you had the balls to contact Boyd's before releasing this video. The word slander comes to mind but your a brave man.
It's not slander to give an honest review of a product you bought. It's also not slander to say parts are plastic and did not fit etc... What I don't understand is he said Sharp shooter was better and he didn't believe this plastic fit plug would fall out but went on to say he had never bought one. ...... then how would he know this part would not "fall out"
Hi, BullBars. Sorry I didn't see your comment until today. I take honesty very seriously. As you are well aware, one of the elements of slander is making false statements, so could you point out what I said that was false or otherwise misleading? I mean, I wouldn't even imply that somebody had slandered anyone unless I could at least do that, but, like I said, I take honesty seriously.
Just like the occasional RUclips commenter who drops a question like that (not you, of course), I'm lazy and insecure. Actually, I like working on guns, and I'm confident enough in my projects to not only shoot them but to tell others about them instead of just how much I spent on them. I guess that comparison doesn't help, but I hope this answers your good-spirited and well-meaning question. Thanks for watching!
I’m often left scratching my head at people who will buy the absolute cheapest rifle they can get, throw away the absolute garbage stock it came with, replace it with a moderately priced stock then complain that it’s not good enough to meet their exceptionally high standards. If you want perfection you’re going to have to pay for it or develop the skills and buy the tools to do it yourself at great expense.
If there were a lice removal product that was getting progressively worse while the price was steadily increasing, I'm sure there's someone who would let you know. Then you could be condescending about that too!
@@DrThunder88 What you seem to be getting at is that you are upset that I called you out for not developing the skills to build yourself a better product than the cheapest thing you can find because You would rather spend your time tearing apart the work and products of other people? That does sound pretty condescending.
@@DrThunder88 I’m not being condescending, I’m simply pointing out the fact that some people seem to feel taken advantage of when they decide to buy the least expensive thing they can find then figure out it isn’t as good as the more expensive thing that they wanted. If it’s all you can afford that’s fine but accept that other things are better. Nothing says you can’t keep working to get the one you want or as I said develop the skills necessary to build it yourself. For decades the best stocks were all hand laid fiberglass that cost about $5 In materials and a fair bit of labor and skill.
Ok understand, you don,t cheap Boyds stocks ok understand kind of agree.......my big question why savage ....talk cheap crap ....you have loose the savage buy a real gun. Big talk little to no action............. plus you sound like you know guns.......really
Okay, I'm having a difficult time parsing information out of your reply, but I'm going to do my best here. Why Savage? Because I don't have access to a machine shop, and my recent projects involve some deep modifications to factory rifles. After the AR-15 and 10/22, I doubt there's a more customizable rifle than a Savage 110 or Axis for someone doing modifications in their own garage. I'm going to assume you're calling Savage "cheap crap", though that's not entirely obvious given your command of English. While the cost of host rifles is important since I am not doing this as a business and don't have unlimited money to spend on my hobbies, I would like you to tell me how much I should spend to get my rifles to "loose" the categorization of being "cheap crap". How much more should I spend, and what performance increase should I expect? "Big talk little to no action"...What the heck does this mean? I have built more than half a dozen Axis projects, and most of them have used Boyds stocks. I'm not just regurgitating rumors or speculating on pointless trivialities here. This is something I have witnessed firsthand, and my opinions come from experience that most consumers don't have.
Well Dr Thunder, they do say those that can't do it talk about it. I am a high end stock maker of more than 40 years, how anybody can pick holes in Boyd's products at the price point they come at blows me out. There is nothing wrong with them that cannot be fixed for a few bucks and some know how. To correct you on the laminate the plain birch laminate is exactly the same as the coloured laminate without the water based wood dye on the sheet before gluing up. Here in the UK we in the gun trade pay about the same price for the laminated blank to make the stock from that Boyd's retail the finished stock for. Quit bitchin'.
Thank you for the potential information about the plain birch laminate. If you have any other criticism that isn't completely baseless, please continue your bitchin'.
its all about business bud. think about it, people find out about boyds, therefore more people start ordering from them. the more popular they get the more supply and demand affects them. like any other smart business they raise up the prices, then they figure out how to get stocks out as fast as they can, making money faster. simple business model. so, of course quality will change. but hey, you call yourself a gun builder, if you really are and dont like the plastic latches and how they dont insert, make one out of metal and work on the stock (its laminate and is easy to work right?). if youre unwilling to do simple tasks like that all you really are is a firearms assembler, NOT a builder...
I'm not really sure I follow your logic here, bud. In the video I talk about and exhibit several modifications I have made to their stocks to make up for the factory deficiency. Pillars, bedding, securing the rear mag latch plate are all a bit more complex than adding an aftermarket drop-in part. How many parts do I have to hew from raw materials to call myself a builder? I don't think your grasp of the economics of the situation is very strong. CNC prototyping costs start at about $100, and that's assuming I can do my own drafting in CAD. While I wasn't aware of V3 Tactical's replacement part for Boyds Axis stocks at the time of this video, if I had bought one and dropped it in place, would THAT make me a "builder" instead of an "assembler"? Moreover, what about the SSS stocks and MDT chassis I mentioned that manages to get right what Boyds has managed to screw up? If I switched to one of those, would I be more or less a builder in your mind? Finally, whether I'm a builder or not is immaterial. This video is from one consumer to other consumers out there. Boyds cares as little about me as they do about you, but, even if they did care one iota about what I have to say, I'm backing up my criticism with my reasons for thinking the way I do instead of just badmouthing them. Maybe no one gains any benefit from my experiences, but I expect there are at least a few people like me out there who would like to know more about what they're getting into before buying a stock.
Bitch, bitch,bitch! If it shoots well and looks good whaddya want for that kind of money? Try a REALLY expensive Wienig laminated stock for comparison. I just put a Savage 110 metal trigger guard on my Ruger American Predator Boyd's Classic stock. Shoots 1/2 MOA with 140 gr. Hornady ELD-M rounds.
Fantastic for you. While your anecdotal evidence is more anecdote than evidence, it brings up an interesting point about the Boyds stock for the Ruger American. The way Boyds approached the mag latch plate and escutcheon was simple, elegant, and could be duplicated with a piece of flat steel by anyone with a hacksaw, files, and drill. The Axis escutcheon and mag latch plate is completely different. It's a complex, three-dimensional shape. The biggest missed opportunity of all is that if Boyds had changed their inletting program for Axis stocks and maybe shipped the Axis stock with a slightly longer front action screw, they likely could use the same or similar piece as the Ruger American. Instead they paid who knows how many thousands of dollars to have an injection mold made for one part of one type of stock. But to return to your original question (the one immediately following "Bitch, bitch,bitch!"), I guess maybe I didn't make it clear that what I want is for products to not decrease in quality while increasing in price. I know...such a bitch. And I don't need to compare a Boyds stock to any other manufacturer's stock. I can compare Boyds stocks to Boyds stocks produced just a few years ago. In fact I made a video about that very thing!
What the heck are you talking about? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't parse the meaning out of your comment. I get the feeling you're saying I'm wrong about something, but I don't even know what you're rebuking so that I can repudiate it.
Listen Jaxk wagon, you get what you pay for, you want to pay 150.00 you get the best 150.00 available. if you want better wood they have a selection all the way up to grade AAA fancy. and you will pay for it! you cant get the special of the day and cry about not meeting your grandest desire. I payed 140.00 for my stock that NOBODY else even makes and was Happy as can be that all I had to do was some fine sanding to make it fit like a glove.
I'm listening, Buxko, but I can't quite tell whose side you're on. Typically people responding to conversations about Boyds will pull out the "you get what you pay for" line when they're bashing Boyds for being low-cost and low-quality. I think I praised Boyds' wood at least a few times, only warning that thin sections of the Axis stock in birch plywood have been know to delaminate when the action is tightened down. Heck, that happened to one of my upgraded laminate Axis stocks before I even got a hold of it! Moreover, the same thin sections would still be at risk of splitting with the fanciest wood Boyds could offer, because the grain of the wood will run in the same direction as the layers of the plywood. If the stocks were pillared around the action screws, whatever wood is there would be relieved of carrying the stress and not subject to splitting because of routine torque on the action screws. Finally, I'd been a fairly frequent Boyds customer for a number of years when I made this video. I've seen them change their website and some of their options, responding, in theory, to consumer demands. It's not unreasonable for someone to air up suggestions on how to improve their business from the perspective of a consumer, especially one who knows a bit about the product and the company.
It’s critical reviews like this that cause manufacturers to improve their products. Great video. 👍
I just purchased a Boyds stock for a 243 Savage Axis and could not be happier. It fit like a glove and shoots great. I love it!
I'm the guy that didn't have the great experience. I haven't looked at the other comments so I might be the only one disappointed. My sick feelings started with the ordering process. After less than a hour passed I called back to add checkering to the build order. My change of heart got me billed a extra 30 bucks because they said I had to cancel the first order and start over. I then had to resubmit the changed order and pay for the stock adding the checkering this time. The stock came quickly and it looks real nice with the action installed. Unfortunately mine has a problem that didn't surface immediately and they tell you that if you have any mods to the stock you don't have a warranty anymore. So with that said, my light sanding in the barrel channel so that it would be truly a free floated Barrel channel keeps me from returning the bad stock. I want to be clear about the real issue. With lightly tightened action screws the clip laches. If I torque them to a mild 12 inch pounds the magazine does not catch correctly. The plastic magazine catch they're using now has a fitment problem..it pulls too deep into the stock. I've already paid for this stock to be worked on by a professional gun smith. He machined a spacer to create the proper spacing for my magazine catch. It not a paperweight anymore.. Not because Boyd's made it good. I called and asked them about the issue..They told me that some people put a piece of leather under the catch to take up any inaccurate spacing. I didn't like their service after the sale and I didn't like the quality of their product. But that's just me complaining.. they do look nice...but I'm not buying another one.
I got the axis about a year ago. J-B welded the lock gonna put in a wire brushed welding rod down the length of the stock and fill it for stability. Im thinking kitty hair fiberglass car repair filler. I fill the shoulder stock end with extra ammo to add weight for recoil . As it is now I love it. Never had a problem. I did get a trigger kit to bring down the trigger pull so its doing great. For the money no one should complain. It is what it is.
I am working on a243 axis. I cut a channel under the barrel on the factory stock. A piece of1/4 inch key stock fits in it. Next I'm going to use bondo with fiberglass strands in it. Did the same with a 111 in 243. It stiffened the stock well.
I appreciate this review and you putting your experience out there in an open way. I recently bought a Boyds stock and they have been great. The stock arrived very quickly, around a week and it was custom, not a standard order. When I got it, my Savage Axis II dropped in perfect. Customer service was really helpful as well, I contacted them a couple times before purchasing and they were helpful. I was disappointed in a cosmetic issue and they let me send it back and paid the return shipping and no fees. They were very responsive and helpful.
My only real complaint is they really up-charge you in a hurry. A $150 stock turns into $250 pretty quick if you change LOP and swap the cheap plastic with the metal hardware it should be. Still beats the competition handily. Also they have pretty smoking deals in their “Rapid Fire” section I assume from returns. I definitely wish they were as cheap as they used to be, but they were so far below everyone else I think supply/demand and lack of competition let them raise their prices closer to the rest of the market.
Thank you for commenting! I'm happy to see Boyds has upped their delivery time. In the year or so leading up to this video, they had slowed to a snail's pace. At least one or two commenters here had mentioned it to me, but I had not experienced delays that exceeded the estimates posted on Boyds' website.
The customization charges are one of the weirdest things about how they do business. They charge extra for not finishing the stock. I can't wrap my mind around that. There's no ability to add on steel trigger guards for the Axis stocks, which is silly. I have a bunch of unused plastic trigger guards now, and, as I mentioned, they charge the same to ship a single trigger guard as they do a complete rifle stock.
There are occasionally some good deals in the Rapid Fire section. I think that's where I found the birch stocks I reviewed elsewhere on this channel. Still, it's something of a crap shoot trying to find a diamond in the rough.
I had a savage 12 built for long range matches. I then decided to go with the Pro-varmiter stock. I began shooting it and was never satisfied with the groups because of unseen fliers. I took the action out of the stock and found that the lamination had seperated under the action. I called Boyd's to see if their was anything that they could do and was told that because the stock had been bedded that the warranty had been voided and that there was nothing they could do about the problem. So they lost a customer because de-lamination of the stock had nothing to do with the bedding.
Just out of curiosity, was the Pro Varmint you got one of the color laminates or was it one with the textured paint?
I've tried talking with Boyds and while I have not purchased anything from them yet, I am probably going to go with Bell and Carlson after this video. Yeah as of now it is a $300 stock but a Bell is %100 impervious to weather and I don't think you can beat a lifetime warranty. Granted it's a limited lifetime but I've yet to see any type of warranty on Boyds stocks.
Thanks for the info was getting ready to order 3 stocks from Boyd think I will going elsewhere ,really appreciate the info
As far as I can tell, their Axis stocks are the ones that fell off the value cliff. I haven't seen much of the rest of their products since then. I couldn't tell you how other models are faring.
Thanks for watching!
I understood your video consensus perfectly fine. Not just a small increase in cost but an overwhelmingly price jump... add the diminishing quality in parts and the increase is just that much more. In incense higher price less quality, So... lets call it double dipping in the consumers pockets. One would hope for a small increase and keep the same or upgrade the quality not the other way around. Your video made logical sense... for those paying attention. And here is the other catch... ship a trigger-guard for $16 which cost less than $3 to ship. Shoot lots and stay safe.
I've got to disagree with this video. If you buy a Savage Axis because you want a fair rifle for a cheap price, then complain this much about a cheap replacement stock for a (even today in 2020) ridiculously low price for what you get, then you'd probably be better off buying a good rifle that comes with a stock you don't need to replace. It'd probably be about the same price by the time you get done tricking out the Axis, especially if you're going to put a Sharp Shooter Supply stock on it. And, at the end of the day, if you decide to sell your Axis, it's still just an Axis and will pretty much be worth about what an out-of-the-box Axis is worth. I bought a Boyds stock for my Marlin X7VH 22-250 last year (2019). The fit and finish were perfect and it makes one elongated hole at 200 yards in a 3-shot group, so I do have some experience with Boyds and I'm not just trolling you on a subject I know nothing about. In fact, I was so pleased with my Boyds stock, I'm ordering one for my 7MM Rem Mag Model 70 Winchester that came with a synthetic stock.
We can disagree about whether or not Boyds' Savage Axis stocks are a good value for a Savage Axis build, but the facts remain: the price has gone up substantially, and the quality has gone down substantially. Whether or not the Axis itself is a good candidate for a custom rifle build is an interesting conversation that I can see going either way (though I'm clearly on the affirmative side), but it's not the topic of this video.
Just bought a Heritage in Nutmeg with scale engraving in Fleur de’Lis pattern for my Marlin X7 30-06 my grandfather bought it for me years ago and I wanted the design to reflect some of the rifles he had. I’ve heard nothing but good things about Boyd’s so I decided they were the company I wanted to go with. I’m excited to see how it turns out.
You make some good points they will hopefully take to heart. But aren't the plastic parts available aftermarket online in a steel material?
Boyds does the typical corporate bait and switch. They build a good rep on a decent product then cheapen the product and raise the price. I won't buy them anymore because you never know which iteration your going to get.
Made in America by Americans, it is basic economics supply and demand. Demand is high, production must increase which increases tooling and operator cost in order to continue to fill orders at a set pace. $150 dollars for a finished stock is still a great price. People keep commenting on HS and Bell and Carlson stocks both of which cost more than the axis did.
V3 Tactical sells the pillars and mag catch for the boyds axis stock. Aluminum instead of plastic.
TexanUSMC8089 Why would you have to go through third-party? Just saying
I have an At-One stock on my Remington. The stock rocks and had monor fit issues which were easily resolved. Boyd's has the worst customer service I have ever dealt with. The wait to order other than stock parts is lengthy and expensive. They wanted to charge me $17.00 shipping for a 2 oz small part! Love their stocks, but the customer service is great before you buy and horrible once you buy!
I recently purchased a Savage axis with the intent of using it as the basis for a winter project. Not being a big fan of tupperware stocks I planned to replacing it with a boyds. You've given me some food for thought and I think your points are valid. Boyd's has the reputation of providing a decent product at a reasonable price it's a shame to see them slipping. I believe I will look elsewhere for a replacement stock, thanks for your review.
Me 2
After several attempts with different guns, i have never had a good experience with Boyds. My experience also is they have some of the worst customer support in the industry. I will not waste my time with Boyds.
They seem to have fallen off in the last year or so. Prior to that I never had a problem. Items shipped in reasonable timeframes and my only return was handled quickly. These days that is not their reputation for good reason.
When I was looking for an after market stock, I had some questions and called Boyd's. The service representative that answered the phone wasn't particularly helpful and could not or would not answer, what I would call "technical" questions, I decided to go with Richard' Micro Fit stocks. Richard's had a "dual grip Thumb hole style" that I liked. Prices seemed less than Boyd's. I went with a solid walnut stock with rose wood for-end and pistol grip cap. They also have laminated stocks, which by the way, tend to be heavier than solid walnut. Some of Boyd's stock designs are really nice with a larger assortment of color options and you can get lazer checkering which Richard's does not offer. There are pro's and con's for each company. Maybe next time I will go with Boyd's, who know's? I am very happy with my Richard's "dual thumb hole" sporter stock for my 7mm-08.
I know what you mean about Boyds' customer service. Recently I was looking into the aluminum pillar option they offer for $57 on some of their stocks and why their Axis stocks only get one pillar. Not only did I have to provide them the right answer (the cheap, plastic magazine latch surrounds the front action screw), they wouldn't explain why Boyds still charges the full $57 for half the work and half the material. I'm willing to overlook them marking up what is maybe $2 worth of thin-walled aluminum tube to almost $60. I'm even willing to overlook the fact that pillars are kind of pointless without a metal trigger guard and magazine catch. But I am deeply disappointed that they can't own up to what I see as the obvious reason why they are effectively charging Axis owners (and Savage 10/110 owners, as it happens) double.
So, no. I am not pleased with their technical knowledge or their business practices.
It looks like the cheapest SSS stock for the Axis is 225 unless I missed something. You can get the Boyd stock with the metal trigger guard, and then the aluminum front clip and pillar bedding kit from V3 for a total of 191.00. So it fixes the issues with the Boyd stocks, and is still cheaper than the competition. In the long run that's what people want when buying Boyd's to begin with a budget laminate stock. Seems like someone should make a video on that. If you are building a Boyds Axis Savage you need to get these three things stock, trigger guard, and aluminum front clip with pillar bedding kit her is why (that way we don't get charged 16 dollars shipping for a trigger guard) . I am glad I saw this video now I can get what I need to build my Axis. Thank you Dr.
That's a reasonably good point, but it raises one question and begs another. First, is the money you'd save turning a Boyds stock into a competitive product worth the time and effort? Second, are Boyds Axis stocks still as good a value as they were?
I don't know if the cost savings are really worth it. That really is something each individual might have to decide for him or herself. Your estimated difference of $35 (I get closer to $31) is a savings of 15% over the cost of the SSS stock, but-in the long run-it's only 3% of the total cost of a completed rifle like Taxis.
It seems like we're probably on the same page about the second question.
Agreed each person has to make the decision if the time and effort is worth it. Granted I am a novice so I can only go by what I have seen online, and clearly you would know this more than I but it seems that clicking a couple extra parts for order is all it would be. It seems like people will already be pillar bedding and action bedding these stocks. If that is not correct I apologize for assuming and please correct me but I have been planning on this and learning how to do it because of that. I would have assumed the same would have to have been done to the SSS stock at least action bedding, didn't know if you would need to do any pillar bedding. Another advantage for Boyd other then cost even thought its only 30ish dollars is multiple designs are available. My issue with the SSS stock for the Axis is I don't like the design. I like the Boyd featherweight thumbhole and Pro Varmint. I wish SSS made their LVT for the AXIS. Dr. other than the issues that you outlined with the Boyd's which seem to at least to me be addressable is there a reason I should look past the aesthetics and buy the SSS stock or some other stock? I actually like the Choate Super Sniper I think its called but its available for the Axis.
Oops! On the SSS stocks I miss read. I thought the Pro hunter was the only Axis compatible stock. The LVT does work on the Axis. I think I will order that one The design features are worth the extra money to me. I like the design best with the adjustable cheek well. The fact that its pillar bedded already will save me some time and possibly money since I have never done it and would not want to mess that up.
"Does the quality of a product change with the quality of its parts?" Yes it does change. Also in manufacturing whoever is doing QC has an off day can affect what leaves the factory.
Sure, but human error in QC doesn't represent a systemic decrease in
quality the way a switch to low quality components does. I don't know
if I mentioned in this video that one of my Axis stocks did have a QC
slip up (delaminated layers), and Boyds made it right. Kudos to them
for that. However, when I asked for them to rectify the use of a low
quality component, I was told I was out of luck. Now, given the
location of the delamination, I could have probably fixed it on my own
or at least worked around it, but it was a brand new stock that was sold
as complete and that I paid good money for. Something was accidentally
deficient, and Boyds recognized they should fix it. Compare this to
the use of plastic parts. Something was intentionally deficient, and
Boyds kept making it more deficient and did so without warning their
customers they were doing so.
You told them to change their build process? comical
I dont mind it when companies cut slight corners to save on costs but that should reflect on the end users product price too.
What I do hate is when they make a lesser product and then INCREASE price. So I get your beef there. I really do. But some of your arguments seem a bit nitpicky. Which isn't to say they're not valid points necessarily... just personal preference and issues that are specific to your setup and caliber etc.
These are STILL some of the cheapest upgrades you can do to a savage axis or like gun. With probably that best results over factory equipment. The accuracy difference is usually night and day difference.
Butbi do agree... if they were gonna raise the price (which is kinda understandable) they really shouldnt have started making plastic (shitty plastic at that) trigger guards and mag catches for their base stocks. That is very irritating and makes customers wonder about other quality concerns with their new direction.
If you think the price increases where bad back then 5 years ago? This past year was much worse.
Plastic doesn't mean diminished quality. Falling out when unbolted doesn't infer diminished quality either. Once properly installed and torqued on a rifle are there any quality issues? One would think someone who could bed an action could figure out how to adhere a piece of plastic so they could carry around their disassembled rifles with magazine in place.
Plastic *definitely* means diminished quality in this case. If Boyds decided to make their stocks entirely out of solid cheddar cheese, I doubt you'd jump to contradict anyone who complained that "Boyds stocks have really diminished in quality since they started making them out of cheese." I can't see you or anyone else saying, "Cheese doesn't mean diminished quality." But let's think...if what you said about plastic were true in reference to this video, why would every company that currently makes plastic stocks for their rifles use steel or aluminum pillars to support the action screws? I guess there might be some companies that don't, but, of the several major brands I have experience with, all of them see fit to have the action screws bear up against and deliver their clamping force via metal. It makes sense too: steel, aluminium, and brass all have lower thermal expansion and higher compressive strength than glass filled nylon. Tell me what you would think about an aluminum chassis system that used nylon pillars or a nylon V-block to connect to the receiver.
And, maybe it's just a value judgment here, but I like things not to fall apart when I pick them up. This is especially true when it's an item designed to be handled. You can argue that the stock is meant to be affixed to a rifle, and, thus, would have the escutcheon assembly attached by means of the action screw. However, that's still missing the point that I shouldn't need to have to reassemble my stock in order to reassemble my rifle. I don't own any other rifle or any other Boyds stock where I need to do that. That's one of the reasons the factory Axis stocks are so ungainly. Moreover, Boyds' Axis stocks used to not have this "feature" and they were perfectly functional without needing the extra effort, just like every other rifle stock on the planet. So they changed the design to something that did the same job as the previous design but did it in a worse way. That does imply diminished quality, and that's why I inferred as much. In fact the only things that don't imply diminished quality about it are the price increases that took place alongside the design changes.
So, yeah, I could have epoxied the escutcheon assembly into the stock, probably cutting some mechanical locking channels into both parts, but why? Frickin why? Why do I have to? Why would I want to? As I already established in both this reply and the video, Boyds used to do the equivalent of this (or better) at a lower cost. As I explained earlier as well, injection molded plastic is not only not ideal for the task of bearing against an action screw, it's worse than the material Boyds used to use and the material inserted in the factory injection molded stock. The stock with the escutcheon assembly in this video is on a single shot Axis I built, so I didn't need the mag catch portion of the assembly. I discarded the assembly and replaced it with a heavy, steel washer that is countersunk and epoied into the stock and backed up by a pillar. If that project were meant to be a repeater, however, I would have had to spend even more money to make my new stock as good as my cheaper, older stocks.
DrThunder88 no where in my post did I discuss cheddar cheese stocks or pillar bedding with nylon. When fully assembled on an action are there quality issues with the Boyd’s stock? Once you expand your horizons beyond savage axis you’ll find that when you disassemble many rifles out there pieces may fall or even fly off if you’re not careful. To just simply say all plastic is poor quality is just false. You could acquire the same piece in different material types but if you’re inserting a plastic magazine the harder material will accelerate the wear on mag and lead to other issues. Boyd’s is not the one stop shop for customizing a stock on the other hand they are an excellent starting point at a fair price. Especially if your dealing with a POS axis. You asked me why, just why....? I ask you the same thing about the axis.
I think Boyd's may have addressed all your concerns. I've bought 3 Boyd's stocks since 2016 and the components you mentioned were all metal, but often not included with the stock--perhaps because guys like to customize everything on their project guns anyway.
I'm interested to learn more about this development. When you say "the components [I] mentioned," can you be more specific? I only ask because I mentioned four of five plastic components, and the only two that were ever metal were the trigger guard and escutcheon. It seems strange that the mag catch plates would also be replaced with metal parts, when both front and rear had been plastic since the beginning and up until the front mag latch place was replaced with the combination escutcheon/mag latch. If all that hardware has indeed been upgraded with no significant cost increase, then Boyds deserves credit for that, but I'd definitely like some confirmation on it.
Some stocks and rifle models they only offer metal stuff with it.
For the axis... the rifle hes buying for... the new standard is plastic (and not very good plastic at that) parts that have a higher failure rate. Mags get removed and reloaded a lot. Specially when you're looking for a good performing round. A plastic magazine clip is a bad idea. The trigger guard is also now standard in plastic. If a rifle is dropped the trigger guard almost always takes a substantial hit. These trigger guards will break in that scenario or in some cases just by tightening the screws too much. No bueno.
These wouldnt be terribly big issues were the price to lower to match the quality OR if it at least stayed the same. But there was a significant price increase. So Boyd's is literally asking customers to pay more money for less quality.
They do have the metal parts available. But for both parts you're looking at adding nearly an additional $100 to your stocks price.
So essentially... the price of getting their old quality standard stocks increased by ... well... about double the price it originally was. Since these were about $150 and now for the metal parts and to accommodate their price bump you're getting into the same stock for about $300.
That's ridiculous. They're still a contender tho.
@@BushmasterRaZ it's only a 100 bucks. Pay to play
I was seriously considering getting one for my 308 Ruger American.
Now I will just stick with the stock it came with.
Could you make the pillars longer to eliminate that plastic escutcheon? Or could you put a steel shim in whole pillar bedding it? Or is there something special about that plastic piece? If i pillar bed one, I don’t want a piece of plastic between the action bolt and the pillar. Thanks in advance.
The new plastic piece is where the Axis magazine latches into the stock, so eliminating it would mean finding a new way to attach a magazine or simply using it as a single-shot. One could run a pillar through the escutcheon, but there would need to be some way to reliably attach the pillar to the escutcheon. Epoxy with some mechanical locks might do it, and I'd considered threading the hole in the escutcheon to accept a pillar made of lamp rod. However, those would rely totally on a thin layer of epoxy and thin sections of the plastic material to hold the gun together. The best case scenario in the failure of such a joint would be the magazine not seating correctly, causing misfeeds. The worst case would let the front pillar come loose along with the front action screw. Without a bearing surface wider than the pillar channel to tighten against, the action screw isn't anchoring the action to the stock. Only the epoxy holding the pillar in place is.
I Have Ordered A Boyds At-One Fully Adjustable Stock For My Remington 770 and had it pillar bedded It Is Now A Real Tac Driver in 308... I Think Boyds Has Payed Real Attention To Detail on This Amassing Stock...
Attention to detail is important.
However the AT-One suffers from a lack of focus on the bigger picture in its half-hearted attempt to try to horn in on the chassis market. Pushbutton adjustments are an excellent idea, as is the ability to take any sort of modular accessory mount, but it fails to really capitalize on either of those. Instead of trying to make an all-in-one stock that really isn't one of anything, a smarter choice would have been to enhance their already well established stocks with the AT-One technology.
Pillars and bedding seem to do well for a great many rifles. We can't give Boyds credit for that though. Pillars wouldn't be too difficult for them to install, and it would be something they could say actually does contribute to accuracy of the gun itself. They could even relieve the action screw holes to make it easier for us to install them.
I seen u said you are from Michigan...which part? Im over near metro Airport..I'm really wanting to find a place to shoot a long range rifle I have been wanting to build one for a while
I'm from central Oakland County. From what I've found, there aren't many places to really stretch your rifles' legs in southeast Michigan. It seems 200 yards is the max until you get up to the Cadillac area! The Cadillac Sportman's Club, for example, has a 600 yard square range. I'm a member at Marksmanship Training Center (MTC) in Lake City, which has a steel range out to 1000 yards. I made a video about the club on my channel if you're interested!
@@DrThunder88 central Lapeer County here, would like a video of the Lake City range
Ok. The boyds plastic parts is a pain to see at first. What is the actual material? Some so called plastics are better than metal. The loose fit is a concern for sure, unless you are expected to install them with epoxy yourself.
In the end. I can make my own stock, but, for those who cant, the boyds is a fair deal when considering the amount of work and skill required to make one.
If a restaurant were serving filet mingon, they'd do everything they could to let people know it was real filet mingon. If Boyds' plastic were better than the metal it replaced, they'd say it loud and proud. They're quick to tout any marginal improvement of accuracy their stocks can supposedly offer, so I'd say their silence on this speaks volumes. I'd also like to say comparing all plastics to all metals is highly dubious. Does silicone rubber outperform mercury? I guess it would by default, but that doesn't make it a good material for this application. I'd like to know one plastic that provides a superior bearing surface than the steel, aluminum, and brass commonly used in bottom metal parts. And then I'd like to see the cost figures compared to what I have every reason to believe is the injection molded nylon Boyds uses now.
I wish I had seen this video. I just received my Heritage stock for my Ruger American and while it looks great the fit is poor. In fact it does not fit at all and it appears I will have hours of deburring and sanding. Not happy at all.
I have to agree , they don't service what the sell, Timney trigger mods need to be inlet I found that out later on, Boyd's didn't seem to care about info on the subject..
Take the money and run I'd say as with most companies out there , few stand by what they sell.
Your reasons for dissatisfaction with Boyd's are a bit off. Shipping is not just the size of the item. It still takes a "person" to pack, print and ship that cost doesn't change. As for increase in materials; inflation is only a small percentage of that. As for quality decline. Justified. Overall I will continue to use Boyd's. To each their own.
Could you suggest a aftermarket stock for an Axis II that takes Mapgul magazines?
If you're talking about Magpul's AICS-style magazines (specifically for 223 Rem and 308 Win families of cartridges), I have been very pleased with the CDiPrecision bottom metal installed on one of my Boyds Pro Varmint stocks. The cost of the part and the installation is about $150. While it's not a cheap upgrade, it does solve my major complaints with Boyds' Axis stocks. Another option that uses AICS-style mags would be a chassis, which are made for the Axis by MDT and XLR.
I agree on the boyds. I like bell and Carlson on my other guns, but they don't make one for the axis.
Let me get this straight, you're giving up on Boyd's completely because of a couple of plastic pieces? Surely there must be aftermarket parts to replace those in question. I get it, you used to get metal ones and the price has increased as well. If the stock itself is made well and it fits well, I don't see this as a deal breaker. It still seems to be an incredible deal. How much do you think a similar stock would've cost 20-30 years ago? I'm in the manufacturing business, just a laborer (a machinist actually) not an owner of a machine shop or anything, but so many people don't realize the labor that goes into things. Even in today's high tech CAD and CNC driven manufacturing, there's still a lot of labor involved in everything. My point is, it STILL seems to be an amazing deal for what you get. It should be MORE expensive, but it isn't. I'd spend fifty bucks or whatever and replace the parts myself. Still an incredible deal. Now I don't know how many Boyd's stocks (or other laminate stocks) don't fit well or de-laminate and blow up, but that doesn't seem to be an issue anywhere with anyone's stocks. I have read about the occasional fit issue with many brands, which is normally easily remedied. I have yet to see an aftermarket stock maker that doesn't say some fitting may be required. So the issue isn't so much with fit or construction, right? I only ask because I'm looking at a Boyd's stock for a Winchester Model 70 and wondered why they are so terrible and you've given up on them. I'm not convinced.
This may boil down to semantics, but maybe we can come to an understanding here. First, any argument about how much labor goes into the piece is invalid. I outline at least one of the labor saving changes they make to their manufacturing process and point out that it came hand-in-hand with a
price INCREASE. Any argument about how much it would cost in ye olden days is purely speculation and also invalid. This video is about the decline in quality over the last few years. I also consider your statement that their stocks should cost more to be total bunk unless you can show me that Boyds is not making a profit or is receiving subsidies or something.
Second, this is about Boyds Savage Axis stocks, not their Winchester 70 stocks, not their Mosin Nagant stocks...their Savage Axis stocks. I have no experience with any of their products beside those for Savage rifles and the Axis in particular. Their Axis stocks seem to be unique, however, in the specific, proprietary hardware they now use at the front of the magazine well. Unlike previous versions, it would be difficult to replace for the end user. If V3 Tactical hadn't just developed a replacement piece, there would be no aftermarket support for it.
Third, "quality" and "value" are nebulous terms, but I think most people would agree that "value" is a function of quality compared to price. "Quality", then-and I'll avoid philosophy I don't understand-would simply be property of being desirable. Now, to me it's less desirable to buy a stock I have to fix right out of the box to make it as good as the stock it's replacing. If it hasn't got pillars, let alone metal-to-metal action screw contact, it is already showing at least some functional inferiority to the factory plastic. One man's opinion: a part with a net cost of at least $160 should be an upgrade.
You're in manufacturing, so let me ask you: can you make a superior product with inferior parts? Does the quality of a product change with the quality of its parts?
Ill Agree that its "not right" for a company to up the price and down the parts on a product, but as an American all i can say is thats how capitalism and inflation work. Boyds was making a superior product 5 years ago because 5 years ago they were a Niche market, we didnt have a quarter the amount of gun owners we have today 5 years ago. The whole country was under the influence that somehow someway our guns were gonna get taken away and the market exploded, everyone and their mother went out and bought guns and introducing the budget rifles to the scene (Axis, American, 788, 783). Alot of those people boosted the entire firearms market and companies like Boyds now took on twice the work in a short amount of time, is that an excuse? Idk but anytime inflation like that happens companies turn to faster and cheaper ways to turn out product and have to take on more overhead which leads to price increases. They have doubled the amount of guns they sell stocks for to expand their market. Does that mean quality control is suffering? Probably, but like other have said if your issue with the savage axis stock is your "assuming" quality could be suffering because a metal part was replaced with a plastic part, im sorry but all i have to say is like others and yourself have said"you get what you pay for" a Rifle Stock doesnt NEED to be over $200, BUT they are and boyds has been able to send out nice ALTERNATIVE options for people to change up their rifle for under $200 and I give huge props to them for that, that alone gets my business, if i want a product out of the box 100% ready to go and gives me 100% accuracy upgrade, i have to assume im going to spend more than $150 to get it, like the guy about stated spend the extra $50 if it bothers you THAT much, to me, a plastic essentially "spacer" in the gun stock that has nothing to do with how the gun overall functions when its all put together isnt reason enough to go out and make a video about how your GIVING UP on them.... just my opinion tho.
First of all, I never said that Boyds deliberate decrease in value for their Axis stocks was "not right". Nor do I think I implied that. This video and my replies make no mention of the moral rectitude of Boyds' business plans. Have I called for a ban on Boyds or even a boycott? No. I am expressing my knowledge of their specific product line and how that's influencing my buying decisions in the future. All I am trying to do is educate other consumers so they can make similarly informed decisions about spending their increasingly devalued money on a product freely offered for sale...that's how capitalism and inflation work without being oligarchical.
Second, it seems like you're speculating quite a bit in your response (or at least not stating figures I can independently verify), which is unusual considering your critique of my position is that I'm "assuming" metal parts are superior to plastic. It's fair to say that I am operating under the assumption that metal-to-metal contact is superior to metal-to-plastic for action screw to stock interface, but I think I can be forgiven for that considering the ubiquity of pillar bedding and bedding blocks in precision rifle stocks and the fact that none of them are plastic. Even Savage Axis factory stocks have steel pillars with metal bearing surfaces, and pillars are widely reputed as accuracy-enhancing fixtures in factory and custom rifles. I would like to do a comparison with several Boyds stocks with various types of bedding to see which, if any, is the most beneficial, but unless there is some evidence that a plastic escutcheon is as good or better than its metal alternative, I'm not willing to go against the collected wisdom of the firearms community.
Finally, what your assumptions about how much a drop-in, bolt-on, accuracy-enhancing stock should cost is entirely immaterial since that's not what we're talking about. Moreover, I don't need to assume what the Boyds stock would cost me in 2013; I still have the invoice of what it DID cost. Boyds stocks had always been a good jumping off point for building an actual accuracy-enhancing stock. If it hadn't been for the replacement magazine clip you mentioned, it would have ceased to be.
You're right that Boyds provides a decent Axis stock for someone who wants a stock that looks nice, fits well, and works okay. For someone who is looking for a foundation to get some additional performance out of their rifle, however, the Boyds Axis stock has fallen short, which was the point of this video.
DrThunder88
I feel that your dodging around simple logic of the fact that regardless of how you want to word it, the name of your video is "Giving up on boyds axis stocks" , and all were trying to say is although we respect YOUR decision to give up on a product for your reasons, we don't understand why a price increase (from inflation) and a few plastic vs metal pieces are enough to steer someone away from an overall budget stock.
Late to the dance here.
I am just wandering into this arena by virtue of embarking on a "$1,000 rifle build for the 1,000-yard shot" project. (Do not know if I will achieve that, but it will be fun trying.) I found nothing in your video to be objectionable. Plainly, it's your opinion backed up by facts that influence your buying decisions. And, clearly, you are entitled to your opinion.
None of your video was strident or over-the-top yet It is surprising how butt-hurt some get over a simple video. I mean, this isn't presidential politics or life or death -- unless one is talking about some prairie dogs.
Thanks for your time and effort and the data points you provided.
Seriously? You're complaining about pricing on a wood stock for around $150. Firstly dump the Axis and buy a Howa!
Pre-firstly, I am complaining about a 40% price increase accompanying a quality decrease. I don't care if it's a $1.50 or $1,500 stock, it's a worthwhile complaint for a consumer. Firstly, I like Howa a great deal, but their guns are not fun to build the way Savages are.
Fun is a very subjective term, Howas don't have any junk bits to deal with. I'm getting a Pro Varmint stock for my new Howa bull barrel 300 win mag and will let you know how that goes. I won't get the barrelled action until the new year so it's gonna be a while.
You're right about fun being subjective. I should have said Howas were more expensive and less accessible to build the way Savages are. I think we can agree that is objectively true. The major difference between the two builds being barrel changes, which Savage made famously easy and cheap in 1958. I'm not sure what you mean by "junk bits to deal with". If this refers to Savage rifles themselves containing junk bits, that's fine. They're also cheap. I'm willing to pay less for a system that uses lower quality parts. If it refers to junk in the Savage aftermarket, I think you'll find this video is about that very topic and how it had previously not been the case.
Please do let me know about your Howa build. It sounds a good deal like my magnum Axis, but I'd love to see your approach.
I love going to a range with my axis .308 heavy barrel. pillar and action bedded. Slightly modified stock trigger. Then shooting a half inch group at 100 yards with brown bear ammo. while some guy sits next to me with his sexy Rem. 700 "or whatever other rifle is so much better than my Savage" and his hand loads can barely hit paper. But it because he is experimenting with different loads. Its like the Glock thing. To a Glock owner all other pistols are junk. Take a good look at a glock. They look a lot like a Hi-Point but the Hi-Point is ugly.
DrThunder88 I agree, just picked up an Axis new userd for $150.00.
I just ordered one anyway for my Ruger but YEAH the plastic parts are a complete let down with no metal options easily available. Gonna see if I can get a buddy to make that mag catch at his shop.
My dad purchased 1, his friend purchased 1, and I have purchased 1. I am currently looking at getting another for my Remington 223. We have never had a problem with our stocks. I highly recommend their stocks. Very good quality. Did you call/email then about the plastic part not fitting?
Putting a Boyds stock on a -- wait for it -- Savage Axis which is a budget cheap rifle ---- buy a Howa
Exactly. Can't polish a turd. And if your gonna complain about a 150 dollar stock then don't get into long range lol
@@williamuskoski1385 The irony of Howa fans complaining about crappy stocks...
Boyd's has the worst customer support I have encountered anywhere in the gun industry. Good luck with support if you have an issue with their products.
I have several Savage Axis Rifles and the factory stocks can get as good of accuracy as anything you can buy aftermarket. The barrel lug can be moved to better center the barrel to the stock. You have metal to metal. Having said that one sometimes likes the looks of a different stock or want a better fit or more weight. If you are a hobbyist as you are you do what it is to make it work to suit you with what ever you have to work with. Have fun with your future choices. I hope that if you make the wrong ones you write as negatively on them as you have Boyd's. I am a gun nut like you but will be ordering a Boyd's Thumb Hole Stock for my .308 AXIS when I get it I will see how it does out of the box and work with it. But I won't be going out of my way like you to hurt a company that still gives most people the best bang for the buck. You have a right to your opinion and you certainly are holding tight to your argument. You have convinced yourself and that is just fine, with all you have stated it seems it would be tough for you to ever go back even if all the other stock companies don't do any better. I know some folks won't believe me on what I said about the stocks that come on the rifles. But it's true they can be played with a bit to tweak them and they will shoot great when done right. Some folks are even buying into Boyd's are bad stocks from your negativity. Changing the stock is generally done to the rifle for cosmetics or someone looking for an easy fix for promised better accuracy, all B.S. I am afraid. I have a lot of guns and they all shoot good with factory stocks some bedded some not.
I have a savage mk2 fv-sr and a savage model 10 fcp-sr both completely stock and both shoot phenomenal. I'm not much into building guns. But my friends who have Boyd's stocks have nothing but good things to say about them.
I was thinking of ordering a pro varmint for my Ruger American stainless steel long action. But from what I hear the trigger guard is plastic and you can't really talk your screws down to spec without cracking that plastic trigger guard. And I ask Boyd's a question about that weather I could get a metal trigger guard and they have yet to respond. Can you shed any light on this?
That wouldn't surprise me, and it's still a bit disappointing. In my video on Boyds' birch stocks, I mentioned that the plastic trigger guard on the Ruger American stock can be replaced with a steel Savage trigger guard. I don't know if that holds true for the Pro Varmint as well, but at least the Ruger stock included the recoil lugs.
I got another one 4 week ago if you. Ask them for steel tricker gard and metal clip do right can not beat them. I stay with body's stock P S no charge
The whole reason for that stupid plastic "thing" is so you can use the factory action screws. I tossed that out first thing. When I bedded pillars in it I made the front pillar long enough so it extends to match the lip that the plastic "thing" sits on. I just used bedding to fill the small u shaped useless void they carve out and fill with plastic. I then made a new magazine clip out of flat aluminum. I got an 1-1/4'x28tpi. hardened screw from Menards and cut it to size. With the new boyds stock my factory screw only when into the action like 1.5 turns to get tight. That's not good. The new screw goes 3.5 turns in. You do need to be careful that the new screw isn't too long and protrudes into the receiver. That can damage the bolt head. All boyds needs to do is ship them with a metal magazine retainer clip and a longer action screw and its a much better product. They are maybe saving $2 per stock by using garbage plastic parts. The trigger guard should be included or at least an option you can select during your stock build when you order it.
I am looking for a new stock for my 111 trophy hunter. Thought Boyd's was ok but know I will look elsewhere due to this reason. Thanks for the review it has changed my mind.
thanks for the honesty you made me rethink how I spend my money sharp shooters are a bit more $ ...but I found out you get what you pay for
im looking for a composite/plastic (better than factory) stock. i dont want wood, and have no use for a chassis. am i SOL or is the laminated stuff just as good or better than composite?
Are you looking for a stock for the Savage Axis? While there are fiberglass stocks out there, there are none made for the Axis. Similarly, there are plastic stocks with aluminum bedding blocks, but none of them are for that model. As far as options for an Axis stock, you're looking at a very choices: Boyds laminate or hardwood, SSS laminate, MDT chassis, and used factory plastic and (more recently) wood stocks.
I tend to use "composite" sparingly when describing stock material because it could refer to two different things. I refer to injection molded, glass reinforced Nylon as "plastic" and hand-laid, fiberglass/epoxy laminates as "fiberglass". If I had one of those trees that my dad implied money grows on, I'd take a fiberglass stock over both wood and plastic. However, most of the shooting I do doesn't need a fiberglass stock, so I get away with laminate wood. Most manufacturers use plastic because it's light and cheap.
What you decide is ultimately going to come down to what kind of rifle you're building. Does it need to be lightweight? Is it going to be exposed to all kinds of weather? Are you figuring the cost of bedding into your build?
I need some advice I just got a boyds at one stock and need to remove the preinstalled recoil lug from that stock. How can I get it off wirhout damaging the stock
Why do you need to remove it?
Bought a Boyds, paid $25 for a 1" recoil pad, was charged and it didn't come with the stock. That's like ordering a combo from McDonald's and forgetting the fries. Except the combo wasn't $230.
I agree on the pro varmint coated stocks. I wouldn't recommend buying the black or green coated models. If you are going to buy a Boyd's stock DO NOT buy the black or green coated models.
Everything has gone up. And make sure you tell them metal part. Yes I believe they sound make it where they just is metal parts even if they upgrade and put it in. The cost. It's not going to break you. I do slot of body's stock. Never had any thang wrong with body's stocks. For me.
I have a Savage Axis in 22-250 and this is exactly what I did with mine.... I put a Prairie Hunter on mine and it improved my accuracy quite a bit.... Although it may have been the Criterion Match grade barrel I put on it. But none the less, It's now a tack driver.... And I'm hitting pint sized targets at 400+ yards.... And I have the stock that has the little plastic piece that holds the mag in.... You will not find a stock even close to this price that will give you the same accuracy. There aren't many stock builders that even cater to the Axis design.... I know because I've been looking for the last 3 years for a good laminate replacement for the plastic Tupperware stock. Just my 2 cents...
I'm glad you like your stock, but you give it too much credit for improving accuracy. Even if it did, your one data point is undermined somewhat by the fact that you replaced the stock and the barrel. My experience with the stocks has not been a significant increase in accuracy if at all when controlling my variables. They do look nice and provide a better platform for improvement compared to factory stocks.
DrThunder88 I THINK YOU NEED TO BED THE ACTION.
I think the reason the stocks are like this is because most people are going to pillar bed and bed the action... this stock makes it easy to do that. The price increase is a given... name something that the price HASN'T gone up on, that's just how business goes.
This may not be clear from the video, but the new plastic escutcheon assembly prevents the rifle from being pillared properly. People who buy these stocks intending to pillar and bed them (like me, which is pretty clear in the video) will be sorely disappointed. Even injection molded stocks usually have a steel insert that extends from the bottom of the receiver to the bottom of the stock. On a Boyds Savage Axis stock, it's no longer possible to get metal-to-metal contact on the front action screw without permanently removing the magazine. That is to say, it's not possible unless one purchases another aftermarket part from another vendor.
And I did address the cost increase substantially outstripping inflation. If I'm paying 20-40% more for something than I was three years ago, it's because there's a scarcity not because of our country's financial policy.
@@DrThunder88 Hmmm... interesting. I was able to get metal to metal contact by buying a metal cnc machined mag catch for the front pillar. Bedding for an axis is kinda different than most rifles but it's doable. I agree though that I shouldn't have to buy extra parts to do a bedding job. However.... by the time a person spends the money in upgrading parts they could've just spent more money on a higher quality rifle. Not saying Savage is low quality, it's an extremely accurate gun, but Savage does save money by going cheap on the factory stock's.
What's the paint job on the pro varmint with the cheek riser and graco buttplate? Wouldn't mind doing something similar to one of mine
i think the russians had the better idea, keep it simple, no metal of any kind on the stock, use leather and lace... you can make this cheek pad from an old boot shaft, some padding and leather lace
i think the russians had the better idea, keep it simple, no metal of any kind on the stock, use leather and lace... you can make this cheek pad from an old boot shaft, some padding and leather lace
what you've done to these stocks looks amazing, have you considered charging people to work on their Boyd's stock?
You're very kind, but I'm strictly a hobbyist! Apart from not having a
whole lot of time with work and school, even the upgrades that wouldn't
require the barreled action be sent with the stock make me worry about
ATF and ITAR compliance.
Thank you so much for watching and the kind words!
Just got a boyds AT -1 stock for my savage Axis 2 I’m a little disappointed once installed onto my action I could not get the magazine into the stock and if you force it in I might break the plastic clip on the mag or have it stuck in the rifle.
They don't make a stock specifically for the Axis 2. They only make one for the Axis. That may be why it's not lining up quite right.
Lol axis 2 is the same firearm only with the accutrigger
Lol Yeah you're right. What gunsmith would think the parts of one trigger assembly filled the same dimensions as the parts of another trigger assembly on the same or similar rifle. Silly me. Thanks for pointing that out. Rotflmao.
Yeah especially sense as per my original comment the trigger section wasn’t the issue.
It’s ok GUN SMITH. I was able to rectify the situation my self and now have the ability to use 10 round mags.
I had one for an Axis had the plastic piece - installed it the mag kept falling out - will not recommend them
You should have mentioned Boyds crappy customer service! Worst int he industry! Everything else can be dealt with, but there's no getting around crappy customer service!
To be fair to Boyds, the issues I did have with one or two stocks, they took care of relatively quickly. I also seem to have been lucky in terms of timing my orders for when they were not running more than a month or two behind. I am not immune to the horror stories I've read about their customer service, however, so I believe there have been some people who've been royally boned by Boyds. I just can't say I'm one of them.
my first synthetic stock was purchased fro gander mountain in 1989... ram line for the win mdl70 in 30-06.. i was stationed in alaska and it shaved about 2 pounds off the premium walnut stock... it worked very well there since there were no trees there, just tundra... when i got back to minnesota, i found this was the worst nightmare stock on the planet, if you looked at it, it made this loud and hollow noise, sure am glad i saved that premium walnut stock... that thing is a tack driver out to 300 yards plus... but in Mn you can only see 30 to 75 yards in the big deer woods... switched to a 1X4 power scope....poof a true white tail deer slayer
How can I get a stock for my 30.o6 military model of 1917 Winchester in wall nut wood
In lndia
How can I get one wall nut stock for my 30.06 made by Winchester military model of 1917 in india
I bought two laminate stocks and have had nothing but trouble: split wood; front screw comes loose no matter what. At first, thought had installed wrong; second proved it was not me. Hate the front plastic insert.
Sharp Shooter supply stock for savage axis are $359, thats more than the rifle costs brand new.......stick with Boyds!
Looks like the SSS Pro Hunter starts at $225. With that, you don't have to buy a separate metal trigger guard ($14 from Boyds), bedding pillars ($62 from Boyds, and you only get one), or an aluminum magazine catch ($35 from Boyds). So that's $111 worth of add-ons to a colorful laminate Pro Varmint ($210), bringing the price of a comparable Boyds stock to $321. A bit closer to the $359 SSS stocks you mentioned, and substantially higher than the $225 Pro Hunter, even if we include an extra $10 for a spray can of clear finish.
Boyds has had been a good value in the past, but, as I outlined in this now fairly old video, the price increased significantly as the quality decreased. Things could be different now; I haven't built an Axis in a while, so I hadn't even glanced at Boyds Axis stocks in years. I also don't feel like giving the company an unlimited series of chances to take more of my money and give me increasingly inferior products.
I put a custom thumbhole from Boyds on a Savage .22 Mark ii FV-SR bull barrel and had excellent service. They had metal trigger guards and magazine plate so I ordered with the stock 12 days before xmas and had it by xmas eve. Great drop in snug fit. Great looking stock. Now have a very tight shooting little rifle that is a tack driver with a 3x9x40 scope. I will buy from them again for sure. I did double check everything before ordering with them just to verify I wasn't missing anything. Smart phone call to make.
Boyd's website tells you that you'll need to order the metal plates from Savage...
I don't understand. What metal plates?
Well, my Savage Axis Hardwood came with a Boyd's stock, says so on the butt plate, lol.
I think th video was very informative. Not sure what all of the other stink it about. I dont have a lot of money and have to save to get what ever upgrades are wanted, usually after my initial purchase of the firearm. I can not afford a Howa. The Axis has very good reviews for accuracy out of the box. The stock and the trigger are the weak points. These Boyd stocks will not be one of my choices for my Axis at this point due to this review. I hope Boyds take care of their chooses for more profit vs. Quality of their products and more so their name sake. Thank you for what appears to be a factual and honest review.
Your music reminds me of the movie Fargo. Are you sure your name is not Jerry Lundagard? :-)
not good fit and finish, stocks a little off at the forend...............
Boyds another shit company cutting quality and raising prices.
So all these people talking about having problems with the laminate, why not just buy a real wood one?
The only laminate problems I really remember were with the texture-painted laminate, which is not (or at least was not) the same material as the color laminates. Similarly, the grain of solid wood should be running roughly the same way as the layers of a laminate, so the potential for damage would still be there. I don't know how the strength of solid wood across the grain compares with the strength of laminated wood across its layers, especially in as thin a section as the bottom inletting on an Axis stock. Either way a pillar takes the load off the wood.
That bites. Sorry for your bad experience with Boyds.
I have a Savage mk2 22lr with a Boyd's tacticool stock. The pull length for me is a bit long. After seeing the Graco/Grayco adjustable buttplate on your sock I would seriously consider going this route.
It's not terribly convenient to install or use, but it is a pretty robust design. Having a powerful sander or grinder is a big help in installing it. For example, I used a 2x48 Kalamazoo belt grinder with a 1.5HP motor to shape mine. I just wish there were tool-free ways to adjust the settings, because every adjustment screw uses a different Allen wrench.
Hey man if you don’t like the stock don’t buy it just saying
Are you summarizing the main point of this video from 2016, or are you sending me advice in 2013 when I started buying Boyds Axis stocks?
All I am saying if you don’t like the stocks don’t buy them I’m just glad you can get a quality stock for a good price they have the metal parts for the plastic ones you don’t like for sale everybody is having to cut corners
@@billpippin7624 That's exactly the point of the video. I even put it in the title. I don't know how else to explain this. They were good at a good price with good components eight years ago, but, by the time I made this video in 2016, they were made with progressively worse components at progressively worse prices. That's why I made the video saying I was no longer buying them.
You can make excuses for the company if you want. I think it's healthy for people to have different opinions, but Boyds cares as little about my opinion as they do about their apologists'. What I'm concerned with is people who aren't as familiar with Boyds Savage Axis stocks as I am may get suckered into thinking they are what they used to be.
thanks for posting this! Very very helpful!
I've had several boyds stocks all were good
Considering all the Boyds Savage Axis stocks that you bought since 2013, do you feel the quality has changed, especially in the transition from metal to plastic hardware?
i had to put steel inserts installed & savage model 11 stock was way off on bolt alignment & i did not have 3 months to wait a 3/4 in dowel & glue & big washer and a die-more grinder to make the action fit right! to me it got people not measuring what was ordered! ps i ordered right lath on bolt measure!! if the people working there can't read a rule!
I was going to boyds but screw them now .. tx
oh you used the s word!! if you look on boyds site sharp shooters supply is one of their dealers!! wonder who is making those stocks for fred? not a big fan of sss. not going to bash them either. the stocks they offer are very nice looking stocks.
I didn't know SSS is a Boyds dealer, but the profiles and inletting of the two companies' stocks are very dissimilar. I wonder if Boyds sells stocks to SSS or if they just sell them laminated blanks.
I don't know either. I ordered a pro varmint stock today myself for my .300 win mag 112. I have a hart barrel on it. it has been producing just under 2 inch 5 shot groups at 500 yards. haven't had the time to try out my hand loads yet. thinking about a bartlein bull barrel for it. I ordered the stock with a bull barrel channel.
Very nice! My .300 Win Mag Savage Axis has a Pro Varmint stock. Boyds doesn't make a Axis stock for long action chamberings with a "bull" (actually a varmint) barrel channel, so I had to hog it out with sandpaper.
been there done that!! wish people know just how big a true bull barrel is. most think the varmint taper is a bull barrel.
Sharpshooter Supply stock will be more than double the price but you do get what you pay for. I do hope you had the balls to contact Boyd's before releasing this video. The word slander comes to mind but your a brave man.
It's not slander to give an honest review of a product you bought. It's also not slander to say parts are plastic and did not fit etc... What I don't understand is he said Sharp shooter was better and he didn't believe this plastic fit plug would fall out but went on to say he had never bought one. ...... then how would he know this part would not "fall out"
Hi, BullBars. Sorry I didn't see your comment until today. I take honesty very seriously. As you are well aware, one of the elements of slander is making false statements, so could you point out what I said that was false or otherwise misleading? I mean, I wouldn't even imply that somebody had slandered anyone unless I could at least do that, but, like I said, I take honesty seriously.
Why don't you buy a real rifle instead of an axis and keep the original stock
Just like the occasional RUclips commenter who drops a question like that (not you, of course), I'm lazy and insecure. Actually, I like working on guns, and I'm confident enough in my projects to not only shoot them but to tell others about them instead of just how much I spent on them. I guess that comparison doesn't help, but I hope this answers your good-spirited and well-meaning question. Thanks for watching!
I’m often left scratching my head at people who will buy the absolute cheapest rifle they can get, throw away the absolute garbage stock it came with, replace it with a moderately priced stock then complain that it’s not good enough to meet their exceptionally high standards. If you want perfection you’re going to have to pay for it or develop the skills and buy the tools to do it yourself at great expense.
If there were a lice removal product that was getting progressively worse while the price was steadily increasing, I'm sure there's someone who would let you know. Then you could be condescending about that too!
@@DrThunder88 What you seem to be getting at is that you are upset that I called you out for not developing the skills to build yourself a better product than the cheapest thing you can find because You would rather spend your time tearing apart the work and products of other people? That does sound pretty condescending.
@@DrThunder88 I’m not being condescending, I’m simply pointing out the fact that some people seem to feel taken advantage of when they decide to buy the least expensive thing they can find then figure out it isn’t as good as the more expensive thing that they wanted. If it’s all you can afford that’s fine but accept that other things are better. Nothing says you can’t keep working to get the one you want or as I said develop the skills necessary to build it yourself. For decades the best stocks were all hand laid fiberglass that cost about $5 In materials and a fair bit of labor and skill.
Ok understand, you don,t cheap Boyds stocks ok understand kind of agree.......my big question why savage ....talk cheap crap ....you have loose the savage buy a real gun. Big talk little to no action............. plus you sound like you know guns.......really
Okay, I'm having a difficult time parsing information out of your reply, but I'm going to do my best here. Why Savage? Because I don't have access to a machine shop, and my recent projects involve some deep modifications to factory rifles. After the AR-15 and 10/22, I doubt there's a more customizable rifle than a Savage 110 or Axis for someone doing modifications in their own garage.
I'm going to assume you're calling Savage "cheap crap", though that's not entirely obvious given your command of English. While the cost of host rifles is important since I am not doing this as a business and don't have unlimited money to spend on my hobbies, I would like you to tell me how much I should spend to get my rifles to "loose" the categorization of being "cheap crap". How much more should I spend, and what performance increase should I expect?
"Big talk little to no action"...What the heck does this mean? I have built more than half a dozen Axis projects, and most of them have used Boyds stocks. I'm not just regurgitating rumors or speculating on pointless trivialities here. This is something I have witnessed firsthand, and my opinions come from experience that most consumers don't have.
Well Dr Thunder, they do say those that can't do it talk about it. I am a high end stock maker of more than 40 years, how anybody can pick holes in Boyd's products at the price point they come at blows me out. There is nothing wrong with them that cannot be fixed for a few bucks and some know how. To correct you on the laminate the plain birch laminate is exactly the same as the coloured laminate without the water based wood dye on the sheet before gluing up. Here in the UK we in the gun trade pay about the same price for the laminated blank to make the stock from that Boyd's retail the finished stock for. Quit bitchin'.
Thank you for the potential information about the plain birch laminate. If you have any other criticism that isn't completely baseless, please continue your bitchin'.
its all about business bud. think about it, people find out about boyds, therefore more people start ordering from them. the more popular they get the more supply and demand affects them. like any other smart business they raise up the prices, then they figure out how to get stocks out as fast as they can, making money faster. simple business model. so, of course quality will change. but hey, you call yourself a gun builder, if you really are and dont like the plastic latches and how they dont insert, make one out of metal and work on the stock (its laminate and is easy to work right?). if youre unwilling to do simple tasks like that all you really are is a firearms assembler, NOT a builder...
I'm not really sure I follow your logic here, bud. In the video I talk about and exhibit several modifications I have made to their stocks to make up for the factory deficiency. Pillars, bedding, securing the rear mag latch plate are all a bit more complex than adding an aftermarket drop-in part. How many parts do I have to hew from raw materials to call myself a builder? I don't think your grasp of the economics of the situation is very strong. CNC prototyping costs start at about $100, and that's assuming I can do my own drafting in CAD. While I wasn't aware of V3 Tactical's replacement part for Boyds Axis stocks at the time of this video, if I had bought one and dropped it in place, would THAT make me a "builder" instead of an "assembler"? Moreover, what about the SSS stocks and MDT chassis I mentioned that manages to get right what Boyds has managed to screw up? If I switched to one of those, would I be more or less a builder in your mind?
Finally, whether I'm a builder or not is immaterial. This video is from one consumer to other consumers out there. Boyds cares as little about me as they do about you, but, even if they did care one iota about what I have to say, I'm backing up my criticism with my reasons for thinking the way I do instead of just badmouthing them. Maybe no one gains any benefit from my experiences, but I expect there are at least a few people like me out there who would like to know more about what they're getting into before buying a stock.
Bitch, bitch,bitch! If it shoots well and looks good whaddya want for that kind of money? Try a REALLY expensive Wienig laminated stock for comparison.
I just put a Savage 110 metal trigger guard on my Ruger American Predator Boyd's Classic stock. Shoots 1/2 MOA with 140 gr. Hornady ELD-M rounds.
Fantastic for you. While your anecdotal evidence is more anecdote than evidence, it brings up an interesting point about the Boyds stock for the Ruger American. The way Boyds approached the mag latch plate and escutcheon was simple, elegant, and could be duplicated with a piece of flat steel by anyone with a hacksaw, files, and drill. The Axis escutcheon and mag latch plate is completely different. It's a complex, three-dimensional shape. The biggest missed opportunity of all is that if Boyds had changed their inletting program for Axis stocks and maybe shipped the Axis stock with a slightly longer front action screw, they likely could use the same or similar piece as the Ruger American. Instead they paid who knows how many thousands of dollars to have an injection mold made for one part of one type of stock.
But to return to your original question (the one immediately following "Bitch, bitch,bitch!"), I guess maybe I didn't make it clear that what I want is for products to not decrease in quality while increasing in price. I know...such a bitch. And I don't need to compare a Boyds stock to any other manufacturer's stock. I can compare Boyds stocks to Boyds stocks produced just a few years ago. In fact I made a video about that very thing!
I think what makes their stocks that's why they're marked up to $359 better do your homework
What the heck are you talking about? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just can't parse the meaning out of your comment. I get the feeling you're saying I'm wrong about something, but I don't even know what you're rebuking so that I can repudiate it.
Listen Jaxk wagon, you get what you pay for, you want to pay 150.00 you get the best 150.00 available. if you want better wood they have a selection all the way up to grade AAA fancy. and you will pay for it! you cant get the special of the day and cry about not meeting your grandest desire. I payed 140.00 for my stock that NOBODY else even makes and was Happy as can be that all I had to do was some fine sanding to make it fit like a glove.
I'm listening, Buxko, but I can't quite tell whose side you're on. Typically people responding to conversations about Boyds will pull out the "you get what you pay for" line when they're bashing Boyds for being low-cost and low-quality. I think I praised Boyds' wood at least a few times, only warning that thin sections of the Axis stock in birch plywood have been know to delaminate when the action is tightened down. Heck, that happened to one of my upgraded laminate Axis stocks before I even got a hold of it! Moreover, the same thin sections would still be at risk of splitting with the fanciest wood Boyds could offer, because the grain of the wood will run in the same direction as the layers of the plywood. If the stocks were pillared around the action screws, whatever wood is there would be relieved of carrying the stress and not subject to splitting because of routine torque on the action screws.
Finally, I'd been a fairly frequent Boyds customer for a number of years when I made this video. I've seen them change their website and some of their options, responding, in theory, to consumer demands. It's not unreasonable for someone to air up suggestions on how to improve their business from the perspective of a consumer, especially one who knows a bit about the product and the company.
hate the plastic......
and by the way shut up and buy the metal replacement parts