PLEASE READ FOR UPDATES, RESPONSES, AND IMPORTANT LETTER FROM FOUNDER: 1. Watch this video in 4K (as in streaming settings) as any lower compression will hide the visual details discussed. 2. We would really appreciate it if viewers could share on giant game related subreddits. These prevent self promotion but these can really push our channel's success by the thousands. Watching the full video without skipping etc also boosts the algorithm. We know some viewers want to help us reach more people and these are the best methods to do so. *3. We used a Desktop 12GB 3060 in this video and pretty much all our videos. It's a little less powerful than than target hardware but of course it's not as simple at that. For now, we'll be using the card for multiple reasons for workflow stability/support and easy cross reference for viewers for our timings in all of our videos. *4. So, commenters are now trying to convince us that we should "tone down" whatever they perceived as aggressive etc to become "less controversial". First of all, we're doing incredibly well in terms of industry reach and these ignorant people who ban or attack us are ultimately irrelevant to the change we're trying to create. We will not stop anything that defines us and we will continue to express valid anger when we see such ridiculous issues such as 800% increases in basic areas of rendering that don't even break boundaries in fidelity (see the first 30 secs of our last video on dynamic lighting). We need more people who actually focus on the issues we present: x.com/NOTimothyLottes/status/1868724204247695839 *5. Some people (who have zero understand of frustum culling) are currently discrediting the opinionated(as we stated) success because "half the outside content was removed". It only helped performance by less than .8ms when *only facing the entrance* . The orginal video has poor performance the entire time, we showed consistent performance. The outside content could have been left in if comptent tools where present to optimize the polygonal nanite mess that was outside. *6. Stay Tuned.
RUclips compression isn't so bad, I'd recommend 1440p60 and up. This also excludes 1440p30. 1080p60 is pretty bad for fine detail on YT, but ironically, some of the issues you may have tried to show like possibly the screenshot of Asmon Gold didn't come through at 4K60 because the source quality was likely too poor to come through even without compression, while other issues were so severe they'd be obvious at RUclips lowest secret quality mode 144p15 with an even lower bitrate than the normal 144p15 mode, which itself is generally not exposed for most users as most users will be able to stream 144p30 without issue with network headroom to spare. My nearly unlimited time messing around with Blender, Handbrake, Sony Vegas (not the newer versions from Magic or whatever their new owner is called) and some other free and paid video compression software all showcase the benefits of great video quality and have allowed me to assess great compression options. RUclips actually has some of the highest quality video compression amongst the existing free social media platforms. Of the free social media platforms I'm aware of in the US, RUclips's 4K60 and 4K60 HDR ranks highest in quality. If you can name a free social media platform with better video quality at such low bitrates, I'd love to hear about them.
i dissagree with you, i think saying "you cant use white list/blacklist" or "master/slave" in code is not important for the simple reason that "this has nothing to do with games being made" and its politics. The problem is precisely that time is spent on such nonsense instead of optimizing the engine and will be used to push away any concerns on the bad code and "blacklist" competent devs who want to improve things so nothing will change and they will continue to deliver a bad product. Case and point, the treatment you are getting by the unreal subreddit. Your code will be banned by name by unreal and you wont be able to contribute it, because of "tribalism", humans are tribal and pick sides, in this case they are too arrogant and proud to accept that they are wrong about something instead they will just call you "grifter" which they did. They just cant accept that they might be wrong about something because to use their language it hurts their "grift" if someone does it better than them, they will lose their job, so they are just arrogant and dismiss anyone as bad faith while continue to double down on idiotic decisions that makes unreal worse in every conceivable way and remember, this engine is industry standard now, you have to use it.
It's crazy how powerful today's gpus are, but they are artificially being hindered by shitty graphic engines. Just look at the new Indiana Jones game: on max settings it absolutely murders a 4090 even in 1440p, which is ridiculous considering the game looks absolutely 2017 at best.
@@arkgaharandan5881 sry but Code style guidelines aren't anything new, and they don't matter either, if you're too stuck on using master/slave, or you refuse to use anything but snake-case, that's a you-problem
I'm not a game dev, but I've been a Software Engineer for 7+ years and it baffles my mind that anyone would openly reject or poke fun at suggestions to optimize. Its part of the job to know this stuff
Same. It's because game 'developers' are too reliant on their tools. Kind of like how you might have a react dev or something like that, someone who only learns to code while using a specific framework for a specific goal. They don't know how to optimize because they simply didn't learn it.
Same. Same. Same. SAME. These devs are an embarrassement! We got hardware that ON THE NUMBERS are 3 to 5 times more expensive for the performance we get relative to 10 years ago. I've been going crazy with the blurring of the graphics in cames and it turns out its this lot and their corporate pipelines cutting corners.
14 дней назад+56
The term is called narcissistic nullification. Same thing happens if you lose weight in an obese family. You end up scapegoated.
Can you really not fathom the fact that multibillion dollar companies could care less for quality work if the product sells? Part of it is complicity on the engineers part, but majority of the design issues come from management decisions. On the company side, there is no incentive to push for optimization when there are tools like upscaling that 'alleviate' that issue altogether. The real problem is people buying these unfinished, unoptimized games. People want change, they need to speak with their money cause otherwise these rich CEOs and companies could care less if the product continues to sell.
It borders on heresy how optimization is beeing treated nowadays, thinking back to how optimizing took months/years to make games run smooth on console hardware, while devs nowadays are just claiming "nah aint possible bro" without having spent any time on it
RE: while devs nowadays are just claiming "nah aint possible bro" Unfortunately that attitude is spoon-fed to people via tech "journalist" who spread that way of thinking to a consumer level. Thank you so much for the support! And we're so glad you see what we're talking about.
The thing is, the developers are ALLOWED to cut corners whenever they want to, i understand how hard being a developer is, but back then devs took it as a challange to make games run as best as possible on the crappy machines we had, nowdays they rely on things like DLSS n other features like that, to optimise for them...
Sony Santa Monica had a small team spend 18 months just working on the flight behavior of the Leviathan Axe in God of War. An element of the game which was universally loved and praised as miraculous and not before seen in any video game. Quality takes time, but when it is achieved it speaks for itself. No need for an executive to openly lie about the first AAAA game when the players can see for themselves the attention to quality.
@@clerothsun3933 what I'm saying is that suggesting that some problems are not solvable so there's no point even looking into solutions is often wrong and is demonstrably wrong in the domain of the video's topic. Doing things poorly and cheaply isn't always a bad choice compared to expensive quality. But it is always a choice. And proclaiming it not actually a choice is disingenuous.
As a person who rarely notices small details, I am noticing obvious artifacts, ghosting, and static in UE5 games. It isn't like these are hard to notice.
When i was playing Stalker for a bit i first thought something was broken with my system. So much jittering, the lights are horrible implemented, TAA mandatory for effects to look correct. Only this channel made it clear for me that those are normal engine problems of UE5.
Exactly why I stopped playing stalker 2.. incredible letdown and I was expecting a great game.. yet it turned into a UE5 nightmare of complete and utter garbage. Sad days
It's the intense smeariness and ghosting that even the default project settings have for me. Unreal engine is great, but goddamn they need to fix some serious problems before adding another big shiny new feature
I am certainly not a game developer or any kind of expert on this subject, but so far unreal. 5 doesn't seem to quite be 'there' yet for video games. It looks beautiful when used by 3D animators But for gaming it really needs some work done to it
Love your channel, love how it's validating every suspicion I've had about these new optimization technologies such as nanite. I hope that those who view this video take the messages and knowledge gained to heart. Maybe we can go back to making large strides in graphics engineering eventually lmao
what a Chad. > says "just optimise it" > people in the comments are calling him out > goes and proves that they were all wrong and optimises it himself 4k with 45FPS with no upscaling? That is insane. You guys are saving PC gaming
@@neptun3189 I specialized in rendering during my programming degree, back when it was 100% on the CPU (single core BTW, coz no multi core and no 64bits CPU back then). It's kinda impressive where we're at with RT nowadays ... but RT ain't the core of the problem. Many rastered game runs like potatoes as well, some graphical options barely have any visual impact between normal and ultra but yet they kill your FPS. Game crafting is like cooking, if an ingredient doen't bring anything to the recipe, then don't use it.
@@GuilleAcoustic Problem is that people don't understand Software at all. I'm someone who loves to light-read into these topics, and i still have so much to learn, but the lack of knowledge by people is sometimes "concerning" because they one used a slighter in a game x3
I don't need games to look better,they already look good enough,just please stop FORCING taa,stop making everything noisy as all hell,stop using taa to hide dithering,and make them run at a playable framerate on a decent gaming laptop not have to use an AI UPSCALER TO RUN IT ON A HALF DECENT PC or laptop i guess You cannot run a lot of modern games on older graphics cards at any concievably playable framerate,yet instead of trying to make it possible to run at 720p at the very least so many of these games require an rtx card minimum,and for what? Ai upscaling just so it can run at all when top of the line specs should run it at atleast 60 fps on native 4k,yet they struggle to run 30 at native 1080p in many cases
@@LaughingMan44 *realistic (I'm sure you meant) This is our use case though and it's a popular one. The issue is that while aspects of realistic rendering might be improving, it's coming with major drawbacks and it's clear from consumer and developer support, we rather focus on solving these drawbacks than so call "progress" in a direction that is maybe different but not exactly better. On 8th gen, we had a lot of people agree we were heading in a better direction. But the optimization issues we're focusing do benefit more stylized game still.
Thank you for supporting this new indie gaming studio, I can't support as I'm still a student but I want to soo badly, all I can do is appreciate and Promote i guess
The unavoidable truths: 1. Reddit is cancer. 2. Stupid people in large numbers should not be underestimated. 3. You will never convince ego warriors they are wrong. 4. Anonymity brings out the worst in people.
Reddit these days is so bad that it's honestly on par with a common RUclips comment section. Shit, even RUclips doesn't have the same level of dead internet echo chamber vibes as Reddit does.
Reddit used to be my last stand for intelligent conversations... HAH, 10 years ago it was a different site altogether, now it's a bunch of children; ps3 vs xbox 360 debate style crapshoot.
Indie dev here. You're doing God's work. I chose to stay on UE4 for my project for these reasons and I get lots of hate for not switching, but I have no interest in these cutting edge effects. I would rather give players a game that runs well and looks timeless than one that's gonna run poorly and look ugly in 5 years time anyway. You'd think these "professionals" would act more cordially and engage with the substance of your arguments instead of making ad hominem attacks and banning you. The guy who admits to not watching your video and running the transcript through ChatGPT goes to show how little these people care. Please keep up the pressure and show us how it's done! I've learned a lot watching your channel and wish you the best of luck with your project.
The latest builds of UE4 support Cone traced GI and Signed Distance field shadow maps anyways, so it's not like you're missing out on Lumen lighting, just the optimization excuse of a feature that is Nanite and a whole lot of unnecessary bloat.
UE3 have so many timeless games runs so good imo. time goes to UE4 everything get worse and worse. my GPU from 770 turns to 970 1080ti 2080ti then 4090 now, but gaming on UE games framerate get less every years, magic!😋
Toxic devs telling people that « they don't understand how it works » as if your eyes weren't enough to understand that what you have in front of your eyeballs, is in fact, blurry ?
bear in mind, the toxic ones are not devs. They are hobbyists likely making their first UEFN pre-made game mode from a tutorial they don't understand. Professionals know when the truth is told. It's the gamerdevs who don't do it for real who make assumptions like they are still in class and want to sound the coolest.
And those devs still defend the ray tracing in Hogwarts Legacy, claiming it’s good. If by “good” you mean flickering reflections that look like they're having a seizure, then sure!
@tehf00n Very true, the most vocal demographic on these communities are not people who spend their time making games, but people who spend their time talking about gamdev. It's very frustrating when entering these communities because they're run by cliques of people who spend the majority of their time on Discord/Reddit. They parrot generalist phrases because that's the extent of their experience. People who need to copy a "tutorial" verbatim for every little thing because they have a phobia for technical subjects and refuse to learn how things actually work under the hood. With most of these tutorials being very flawed because their goal isn't to provide a proper solution but to kowtow to people who don't know what they're doing. They never truly see the problems with what they're doing because of how mediocre their project is.
One of the dumbest arguments people use is "so you, a nobody, think you know more than a billion dollar company?". Have we forgotten that a guy all by himself fixed the incredibly unoptimized loading screen of GTA5 (that had been out for almost 8 years by then), reducing it by 70%? A problem that would have taken a day to solve, according to him, if Rockstar actually cared about the quality of the product they sell. It's not just about knowing (this man here does know a lot), it's about being willing to put in the effort to give the final user the product they deserve. A FUNCTIONAL product.
not only was it about loading time optimizations but the ultimate issue was a totally broken JSON parser in GTAV. Yes, the engineers of the most successful game company of the world don't know how to parse freaking JSON data properly.
This. The didn't want to do refactoring or optimization because it's long, boring, tedious. They want to do all the fun stuff, rather than the stuff we call 'work'.
programming wise the quality of video game code is awful for no reason other then greed, a shame considering game development is exactly where you can execute the most innovative ideas 🥲
I've never donated to someone on RUclips before, but what you guys are doing is incredible and I hope it pays off. Cheers to trying to fix something wrong, I'll definitely look at any game you guys decide to produce in the future. Good luck mate.
"Don't listen to him! Just by our $70 60fps (only achievable with dlss ai upscale, 720p native rendering, ray-tracing required) visual smear and don't ask any questions!"
on a 4090 of all cards 😂 (I say that as a 4090 owner lmao, im so frustrated with the state of gaming optimizations and the constant regressions in visual fidelity)
@@RobertleeEtn it’s legit insane, i can get so much more value out of my card and cpu if devs actually put decent effort into optimizations instead of slapping dlss in their games and call it a day 🫠
AI requires training, which DLSS2+ do not... Also, if developers knew how to do it, TAA would have better quality/performance than DLSS anyway in about 10-15 minutes for configuration in any UE game... No, I am not game developer, that is probably why I figured out that UE has commands for adjusting TAA (I know what is possible but I have never seen UE game with good TAA config, so I have no better explanation for this issue)...
You need to fix your RUclips channels optimization. The youtube algorithm is a video ranking tool. What gets ranked is what's valuable. What's valuable is a reflection of our evolved values. Your niche: Ostensibly, your addressing a deficiency in modern game's graphic optimization. Anyone at all interested in the technical progress for video games, could be interested in your content. The vision of progress per se is appealing. Contending against the insufficient is compelling. Practical assistance for working game developers is also valuable. It seems honest, and generous. Humans like those things. It's a viable, and even potent area in the youtube market. Your videos: There are 2 primary predicates of valuable content on youtube. Pretty much if you get even one of them half right your video will succeed, because society is bereft of creativity. 1 video ideas. The proposed value, or substance of a video. If you want to advance in this domain, research, Generate, iterate, and edit till you have settled on an idea you want to realize. You don't need to cater to trends or anything, that's cringe. 2 video value. RUclips predominantly acts as a substitute for real relationships, I'd guess, so character is paramount. Honesty is good. People also like playfulness, it's an indicator of security, and status I think. That type of stuff... In regards to executing the video idea. You obviously have to fulfill the video idea at bare minimum. Then there's a hierarchy of creative skill beyond that. Most well performing people on yt aren't even on that hierarchy though. Most successful people got lucky with video ideas, or personality, or a little of both. Creative skill is how you take advantage of each aspect of the potential of your idea, using your terrific abstraction facility, and skill e.g. how do I write these videos well. what are videos? They communicate information, and are a visual, and auditory experience. How can I adapt the idea or the visuals for a better experience, or for more information? Generally they are filmed on a camera. How do I film? what do I film? How do I design what I film? I gotta be honest man, and you should take this well after encountering the overtly weak minded people on discord slandering you, your videos are creatively assssssssssssss. It's 7am, and my life is decaying, sorry if this is stupid. If I were you, and if you actually care, I'd recommend looking at other channels who do essays about technical topics, and things, and see how they conduct the same processes differently. The video could be more aesthetic. music? Your language use could use some adjustment. You could amplify the meaning of the video using your creativity. You could do so much more, if you want to. You tube is an educational tool fundamentally. Really your just contributing broadly to the story of human existence. Stories develop peoples perceptions, and through that help them navigate the world. Marketing?: Outside of that, facilitating conversion from impressions of your content through basic marketing in mere proposition of your value is sufficient to enabling the growth of your channel. This mainly comes in the form of a title, and thumbnail serving the function of atleast proposing the video idea. This is the case because RUclips provides impressions. So if a Video idea is intriguing enough for some click through from those impressions, and your content has enough value for those impressions to result in rentention superior to others video's statistics, then the youtube alogorithm will push your video, and you will succeed. Random ass thumbnail ideas, which aren't that good, but are wayy better than whatever is behind your ones. This section is a kinda lacking. I copy, and pasted it from some old notes I have. Thumbnails, and titles: They convay the idea a video. They can provide extra intriuging context. They need to be unique, and attention grabbing, and simplistic enough to be interpretted fast. They are usually composed of 3 main elements, or less. Usually people/ environments/ props blocked in simple shapes for ease of eye movement. The structure in this way should be considered. You should make multiple variations of what elements you choose, and the structure of those elements. size of elements determines it's priority in the idea proposition. -avoid dead space -Faces/ expressions/ action attracts attention. -Text over complicates it so 3 words are maximum, but none is better. place in top/ centre right/ left, never bottom or middle. -Depending on the video type, a quote can be intriguing. -You can use beauty or provocation. -the thumbnail can have a relationship to the title -consistency between thumbnail style enforces reputation, and name recognition -In relation to colours, use the colour wheel, I'd suggest your colours contrast, I'd suggest you use vibrant, and none vibrant colours. I'd suggest you use atleast 3 colours. You can keep those colours consistent video to video. -you can make your thumbnail design artistic, and less optimised, which works well e.g. creative texture or font or colour or line choices. You would be considering tone, a lot more in making style decisions. e.g. like a posture, or an actual piece of art. -depth is better than flat, and creates more novelty. background gives depth, it's not dead space. -There should be cohesion, and consistent high quality image -you should emphasize elements of thumbnail. size, thickness, stroke, shadow, or gleam, brightness, clarity, sharpness are the tools you use to do this -novelty is like the main source of effective thumbnails. This can come from creativity in manipulating nature, and subverting tropes, or accepted ways of seeing something -I'd prefer more artistic than optimised, as it would bring a more sophisticated target audience. To much saturation, and exaggeration looks like dogshit. -we look at thumbnails from left to right. You need to think about how this, along with colour, and scale impacts eye movement. -be detail oriented in creating thumbnails, improve every little bit -showing more than 1 image in the thumbnail isn't advised unless necessary to pair separate existing things for meaning. -arrows mitigate against poorly structured low contrast images Some of this nonsense applies to titles as well. I'm not bothered to explain further. titles can also exploit punctuation stuff, and poetic stuff, and rhetoric stuff. it also doesn't necessarily just have to be the video idea. For you in particular I'd say you need to be way more simplistic. Less specific. more ambiguous. Use strong adjectives about the significance of your points e.g. Unreal engine 5 is misleading... unreal engine 5 is immensely disappointing. By god, Just please stop writing 2 titles in one. That is a terrible idea, I don't know where you heard to do that. I mean it's not going to ruin your videos performance, but it's just not ideal. If you think about it, it's demonstrably a bad strategy. Here's a thumbnail idea. a crappy unreal engine screenshot, with it's defining problems, and maybe with a word actually integrated into the 3d environment of the screenshot like ugly. The comparison screenshots are good as well. Again your choosing ones with subjects which are too small. maybe just shot a car, or a tree, or a character, you don't need to show the entire 3rd person interface. It looks low quality. There's other marketing crap like when do you upload a video? or do you post clips to other platforms, and try to acquire external attention, or switching out thumbnails based on your analytics. You honestly don't really need to do any of that stuff to succeed. That's the least important part. I hope you see this, and if you do. I hope it's helpful, and coherent, and not stupid like me. Anyway I think what your doing seems really awesome. I hope you succeed further, and have tremendous impact on the the industry. Good luck.
The unfortunate part is that the blurriness and temporal flickering isn't super apparent in RUclips videos anyway, which is how games get sold these days. It's only when you play the game yourself on a nice display that these problems become most apparent.
It's soothing to see someone else give a shit. I'm tired of seeing fellow devs (in the games industry or not) cut corners because "the user/client doesn't know any better, they can't tell, it's fine, it just has to run".
"Eh, PC gamers will just upgrade their GPUs" *cue Steamstats showing that the overwhelming majority of PC gamers are using older/newer midrange GPUs at best and hang on to their systems for years while less than 5% of the market use high-end GPUs*
I'm an Art Director, with a RT VFX and 3D background, I've built shader/mat libraries for 4 games of various complexities in Unreal and Unity, and also more complex ones for my cinematics. I don't understand the hate, everything you say in your videos is true. Of course optimisations like the ones shown in the video are to be expected, they are the baseline, who would split geometry on the floor like that and use separate materials? This environment is begging for a trimsheet. And yet we see this environment existing in all it's unoptimized glory, relying on smear-producing fixes that I've been seeing for years and I was going crazy how everyone seemed okay with it.... Lights having such a huge radius is also incomprehensible, of course it should be the smallest possible. But I'd lie if I'd say we never shipped a game without lights like that. Where someone lied to get into a level designer position and just cranked every setting to the max to get best visuals and then had to lie their way through to not get fired (and God knows I tried to get them fired!). All these idiots defending themselves remind me of that guy. The optimisations you do aren't the most complex, creme de la creme, Carmack-tier math deep-dives that are worthy of a nobel prize.... but they give results and what else matters? If watching several 10 min videos gives me knowledge to add 10 fps to my game: Thank you, young Sir! You made me realise that TAA was a problem in our project, I zoomed in... on character movement our grass is blurry. That's getting fixed. And your videos pushed me to disable Lumen, rely more on screenspace effects (works for my game) and start creating my own AO solution because Unreal's doesn't work with SSGI... lol. Everything we do here is a model of reality and will never be perfect. It's all about the final image. Get frames, get clarity or get lost! Hoorah! From DanV with LOVE!
I can't just believe how respected developers can't get down to the earth and admit and correct their mistakes like you did. I mean it's just not bad rep but it's also bad business when a game struggles to run even on a 3050 even with frame gen then that game is doomed to fail and that dev deserves to go bankrupt.
"You made me realise that TAA was a problem in our project, I zoomed in... on character movement our grass is blurry. That's getting fixed." you really needed effort and that much time to notice this?
Also there is option to just model one section of dome, bake everything and repeat that to circle. Make reflection on floor just with mirror portal and it then run on phone 60fps without even getting warm.
That guy who asked ChatGPT to explain what you said - instead of y'know, listening to what you said for himself - is just beyond pathetic, I can't even find the words to describe it
It's pretty much the same everywhere. Egos get tied into a certain way of doing things and there is resistance to change. It happens even in areas you'd expect change to be welcomed. For example, occasionally a breakthrough happens in speedrunning, but there is resistance to use the new methods because the play style is different from what it used to be.
Not a game dev at all, but as someone working with 3D Programs and 3D printing specifically, seeing that floor gave me psychological damage. It´s really refreshing to see someone knowing what they´re doing. *Please* keep up the good work m8.
The virgin "YOU CAN'T EXPECT ME TO ACTUALLY DO MY JOB!!! JUST BUY A BETTER PC!" vs the Chad "I will gladly work tirelessly to make my software run as fast as computationally possible"
Only in the video game industry this type of thing is possible. Crazy how every bad video game is met with the classic « Muh I know what goes into a video game !! ». As if it was the only industry with complex project
Yes you can tirelessly make your software run fast then, you have Valve & Rockstar type releases which is alright for those studios, but many others would go bust.
It makes a lot of sense if you think about it Graphics programmer dumping time into fancy new graphics solutions which use exorbitant amounts of computing resources unlike older more optimized graphics Fancy new LLM which uses exorbitant amounts of electricity and third world labor to produce a summary which is inherently inferior to any understanding youd gain from actually watching the video
This video reminds me of Casey Muratori, who complained about the poor performance of Windows' terminal and a Microsoft developer told him that making it faster would be a Phd project. Muratori then wrote a proof of concept that ran over 100x as fast in a single weekend. Of course he then needed to spend another weekend and make another video to prove the goalpost movers wrong.
hell?, make a faster terminal is a PHD project?, linux has a dozen of terminals made by amateurs and each one of them are faster, i mean, windows users don't care about a responsible system, so that's check out
I think with UE5 it's more of an issue of the devs trying to create an engine that can do everything, rather than a lack of skill. They're trying to cater to so many different markets that the engine as a whole suffers as a result. People think of UE5 as a game engine, yet it's also used for creating advertisements, cinematics, archviz and so on. Each thing has its own workflow and quirks, and these often conflict with each other. For example archviz people might want really in-depth lightmap stuff with ultra high quality options that take forever to bake, where as games want more real-time stuff.
Cheers to you and your team ! This has been a trend for a while now and quality control is close to non-existent . Everyone's putting products on a conveyor belt just to satisfy investors deadlines and profit needs . I would like to see your voice being heard and your findings to be used in real world scenarios in gaming studios . Enjoyed watching this , Happy Holidays !
Merci ! Your videos are a public service. Seriously, how can people not realize that since, what? 2020? 2018? AAA developers no longer bother to optimize their games... And the fact that you're being dragged through the mud by people who don't even bother to try and understand your arguments, or even LISTEN to them, pisses me off! I hope you continue to fight for us players who are clear about the state of the industry.
Its been far longer than 2018 lol. Like started being an obvious problem in the early 2000s and has only gotten worse over time. Its also not a unique problem to graphics programming, All programs have been suffering from similar things. As hardware gets better there is less of a concern with optimization as it is less necessary plus as financial and corporate pressure increases there is a bigger and bigger focus on producing something that works just well enough as fast as possible.
@@CaptianSwan Sure, since early 2000s we had few games running poorly, but major AAA releases on PS4 and Xbox One at least were great most of the time (Red Dead 2, inFAMOUS Second Son, The Division, Uncharted, AC Unity, Batman Arkham Knight, Detroit Human... and so much more)! Nowadays, AAAs are ALL running terribly, with very few exceptions
@@fallen_em Maybe I'm just used to those triple a games running like shit because they were optimized for console hardware and had poor pc ports if they had them at all.
Man, your work breaking down the real issues in modern graphics programming is incredibly valuable and hits home for those of us who actually care about proper engineering. The way you back up every claim with detailed analysis and actual demonstrations is just eye-opening - we really needed this wake-up call in an industry that's gotten way too comfortable with brute-force solutions. It's so refreshing to see someone stand up for optimization craftsmanship, especially when facing pushback from folks who seem to have forgotten (or never learned) the basics. Your systematic approach to exposing issues like TAA blur, quad overdraw, and polygon optimization shows what real engineering looks like - spotting problems, digging into root causes, and coming up with elegant solutions. Just want you to know there's a growing community of developers who totally get what you're saying and appreciate the guts it takes to challenge the status quo. You're helping preserve and revive what feels like a lost art of proper optimization and thoughtful engineering. Keep fighting the good fight - your work matters more than you might think! It breaks my heart seeing a field that should be founded on rational and analytical thinking being populated by people who resort to tribalism and blind trend-following rather than engaging with actual technical arguments. The way they attack you without even attempting to refute your well-documented claims shows they've lost sight of what engineering is really about.
Hi, I am a somewhat new dev on Unreal, and I found it really hard to find optimization tutorial on the engine. As most rely on the fastest tools to be able to publish 10 seconds shorts. Your channel just shows how to propper work the optimization and I'm all on for it. Do you plan on doing full on tutorials, like a 1 to 2 hour complete interior or exterior lightning ? That would be so useful for us who needs to get to know so much. Thanks again.
Absolutely true. I started out mapping for the Source Engine and there are so many resources to learn about optimising it available - a dev wiki, countless tutorials in video and text format, helpful veterans lurking on forums... But for UE, the best you get most of the time is a vaguely worded single-sentence paragraph in the docs. The more time I spend thinking about how to optimise my UE4 game, the more I get the impression that the vast majority of UE devs operate solely on guesswork. Even if you want to do things right, it's hard to find any proper answers about how to do it.
Those devs really just said "TAA is good actually, you're just dumb", the gall of these people. All you need is a pair of functional eyeballs to see how disgusting it looks in most games. Stop trying to gaslight your consumers.
The bigger issue is that they use Taa to hide things, so even when. You want to turn Taa off you are stuck with way worse visual problem besides aliasing.
The worst thing is that most of the time it is said by a literal nobody defending his "favorite corporation". Unfortunately resetera brain is inoperable...
I cannot believe they're using ancient techniques like screen door transparency and relying on TAA to smooth it out. It looks terrible in motion - blurred hair, smeared water falls - absolute garbage. It is definitely a UE issue, and I'm sad that some studios are abandoning their superior in-house engines for UE5. Epic need to start listening to the criticism about performance and graphics quality. Nanite sounds great on paper, but when you get down to it, it leads to huge models with no thought for basic optimisation and mesh simplification - pure laziness - and if it hurts performance, it makes for a worse game experience, fewer sales, and unhappy customers. That's not good for business, and right now the industry needs to start listening to the customers, because we're being let down on all fronts - from 'woke' game devs, ripoff HW manufacturers, and garbage engine graphics quality.
I actually prefer TAA for subpixel aliasing management and image stability, I think it's a great technology, it just has its use cases and limitations like everything else. A good TAA implementation requires a decent framerate target (if we setup TAA in an identical scene with identical settings for the AA itself, by lowering the framerate, we can observe how the lower the framerate gets, the more ghostly and blurry the picture gets due to previous frame data having a much bigger relative weight to the entire rendering budget) and a good balance of previous frame information gathering vs current frame prioritization, as well as good balance of pre- and post-sharpening passes and filtering. Developers use TAA's inherent smearing of details to reconstruct detail in places where their techniques cannot keep up, and that is the problem. That's why and how you get a bunch of stipled and dithered effects fed into the render target before TAA pass that sometimes get through to the other side if the dithering/stipling is too agressive or on the other side if the TAA is not aggressive enough to remove those artifacts (it's actually always a balance of the two...). DLSS, also, is a fantastic upscaler (along with FSR2 and XeSS, which are getting better and are mostly hardware agnostic, which is a huge boon). I am very happy it is a thing. I'm just not happy it turned into a crutch. If it was used as a tool to help truly weak GPUs and improve already decent framerates into HFR territory, it would be a stellar technology lauded universally, not just one having a polarizing reception due to it being hamfisted to resolve performance issues on hardware that is far more capable than should be required to run whatever level of fidelity is on screen.
Bro I felt so frustrated playing video games I finally broke and decided to upgrade from a 2060 to a 7800xt and while the performance was better, the issues I wanted to get rid of still stayed, I was so upset that I just spent all that money for nothing but now it all makes sense. Thanks for bringing this to light bro!
Interestingly enough the OP raised a point many have discovered on their own and it's one that dev's, both game devs and graphics devs seem to knowingly avoid. Six to ten year old+ games don't have these problems with their graphics so what changed in that time frame that could account for the issue? Well there is the point a lot of the old devs from both are now either working in independent studios or doing contract work to make up for the lesser skilled devs who have been making a good deal of the games the last 1-6 years and do not have the same work ethic or will to push back on team leaders about optimization, if they've even been educated in such a topic while in school. My advice start replaying your library of older games save yourself the money and enjoy life.
Lmao meanwhile I am over here still playing all the best video games with a 980Ti that is almost ten years old. If your video game requires more than a 980Ti which is an incredibly powerful card, it's a bad game that is focusing more on graphics than gameplay.
@@pedroferrr1412 Bro I am not a poor brown third worlder, I can afford a RTX 4090 it's just a stupid purchase because I don't play games that require that kind of graphics processing power because they're all trash games.
All I know is Red Dead Redemption 2 looked like it looked and ran on a system that had only 5GB of combined memory available to the games. Yes, the PS4 has 8 gigs overall, but 3 of those are reserved for the PS OS. Now we get games that barely match RDR2's graphics, while exceeding its requirements by a factor of 6. Something isn't right.
It's all in the video. Developers won't bother optimizing the engines and games. Too "time-consuming", and also not optimizing your engine/game means more hardware sales (more people upgrading their PCs and consoles...) You'd be surprised how much an experienced developer can optimize a game. Look at the older eras of video games like 6th generation and before. The PS2 could run incredible-looking games at 60 FPS even, and it released in year 2000.
After being told that "hoping 8GB of VRAM to be the minimum for modern gaming" was "naive", I started to completely lose my hopes for gaming communities at large. I get that my RX 6600 is underpowered, but as I said somewhere else, the GTX 1080 8GB was THE KING for so long, that today I wouldn't mind if it was only capable of running some games on minimal graphics. However, it just DOESN'T RUN now! Just 7 years later, and its DEAD. Something was really, really wrong.
Keep in mind that it doesn't have RT, yet lighting looks better then in 90% of games with RT. Also clouds and sky are still one of the best I've seen in games, physics are great and overall attention to detail is on insane level Obviously not every developer can spend 10 years and hundreds of millions to make one game (though some - can, and result is often not even close to what R* delivers)
My theory? Nvidia is colluding with EPIC to intentionally ignore optimization in the engine to force players to upgrade to newer GPUs because they think they need to for performance.
Honestly they probably avoid the videos because they know they'll be proven wrong and can't handle it, lol. They're just desperate to protect their ego
Well, the consumers have mercilessly not purchased the plethora of woke DEI games released the last years, but the publishers are still continuing to waste resources on them. In the end, even the publishers will face the reality, but many developers will have been sacrificed before then. At the end of the day though, I, as a consumer, will probably enjoy a well written blurry TAA game more then a crisp-looking 4k@60fps DEI trainwreck.
@@ericsjoberg8167 “woke”. I’ll never understand why people call anything and everything “woke” I’d be interested to hear what your definition of “woke” is. From what I see people call anything with a hint of progressiveness “woke”. Also I do get how weird DEI stuff can get *when* it gets super pushed onto games/companies. DEI is completely fine when it’s done correctly and in good faith. (It being done in bad faith would be doing it just to meet some goal or whatever)
@@zndrmn Let's take the recept slop "Concord" as an example. A fps shooter. What's the main demographic playing these games? Probably a white male. Out of 16 characters in that game literally only 1 was a white man (and they made him as much uninteresting as possible, just your average "soldier"). Sounds pretty woke to me.
@@zndrmn "From what I see people call anything with a hint of progressiveness “woke”. " - yes. "DEI is completely fine when it’s done correctly and in good faith." - hell no.
Holy crap that one guy actually fed RUclips's crappy auto-subtitles to ChatGPT and asked for **its opinion**? Asking for a summary or some bullet points to reference while writing a point-by-point response I can totally understand, if he had done that... but asking it for analysis?!? The irony of being an example of the exact mentality you're highlighting is so clearly lost on that guy.
You shouldn't be surprised bud, AI has started doing all the 'work' for the new generation. We are at point where people are not critical thinking anymore but would rather have the AI do it for them. The guy you mentioned is a perfect example. I try to use AI as a learning tool, ya it's quite capable of completing your work but are you learning anything?
I can't believe how basic design stuff I was taught just for making models for early FPS games in terms of polycount and what-not to keep things efficient ended up being forgotten and now you got all these Dunning Kruger sufferers who don't know about optimizing their models first but talk like experts in their field. YOU are a godsend.
I wonder was it done purposely so that the demo works? I know they say don't attribute to malice that which is probably incompetence but at this stage like...
You don't need to be a chef to know your steak is burnt to a crisp. The audacity of some people to disregard anyone who notices the regression in quality of games because we're not devs lol.
As someone who's worked in a kitchen and had someone ask for a rare steak but had us remake it 3 times until it was well done I can confirm people often DON'T know what they mean or are talking about. lol But yes you should always be willing to look inwards and gauge what part you have to play in everything regardless of where that feed back comes from, that said the core issues in the game industry isn't the technology, the developers/artists or software engineers its the people running these companies and the investors behind them that enforce insane deadlines, push for malicious systems or padding a game to hit some obtuse metric.
@@BigHeadClan As I understand it, the problem with UE5 is that the kitchen is designed to only output rare steaks. Most gamers want their steaks well done, but the kitchen staff insist that rare steaks are much better.
@@cyrussilver8230I think the industry wants our graphics cards ultra rare to sell more graphics cards. I want my graphics cards blue so I dont need to buy more.
I remember when we were excited for things like frame generation and upscaling because we thought it would extend the life spans of older hardware, but instead devs just used it as a way to cut corners so they wouldn't have to optimize their games to save time and money.
This is corporate thinking, I know this first hand. It's just status quo. If they can do something faster and cheaper, they will do it in the majority of cases. Often devs themselves but if not - their management will mandate this. Those techonlogies were never meant to be "for the players". They were supposed to "reset the ladder". And players did have to buy into them if they were to be utilized. So marketing did their part and people ate it up. Now it's similar to self-fulfilling prophecy. The techniques and hardware need to be implemented because it appears that there is a demand for this. People think they want it because it's being implemented and released. And the only people benefiting from this are manufacturers (mainly nvidia, who's marketing caused this) and devs/publisers. Gamers on the other hand vastly overpay for all this and get comparatively worse products than decade ago. And some people are still clapping. I've been beating this dead horse over this since rtx 2000 series came out :/. It makes one tired after a while knowing nothing will likely change.
@@itizwhatitiz9560 That was a increadibly optimistic assumption based purely on the desire for it to happen. It's quite common. This is very unlikely though for several reasons that later on can be extrapolated from. Those could be: there would be no point in hardware upgrades anymore and there are official and unofficial "partnerships" inside most of the business domains. Corporations/businesses need to / want to be cost conscious and they will utilize whatever helps them achieve this, like e.g. like cut development time and quality or external aids (like e.g. feature suite propagated and marketed by nvidia). People themselves are often lazy and won't be bothered to optimize if they don't have to - just a human nature, especially when the dev domain grew so much during the last, say 20 years. It's statistically true that more and more people are in this that are not as passionate and invested nor skilled like developers in the past. Also the turn to use "out-of-the-box" engine solutions, when devs aren't creating their own tools from scratch like the early days, but are at the mercy of the engine that they must use - see previous points. This overall trend will continue with worse results (worse overall quality, more expensive) , as people are being conditioned to accept more and more of it and even defend it. You can take these points to a bank as a general truizms in this case.
I barely understand anything about developing games, all I know is that a lot of games that look like crap need a top tier PC. It's incredible how uneducated are a lot of devs who only think that you need to upgrade your hardware when their projects are soo badly optimized. Thank you for doing what you do and show us everything.
Its far too prevelant these days. If its not the insults they go for, its gaslighting or personal attacks. And that authoritarian, condescending manner in which they talk down to people is just getting outright annoying. The language they use Like: "Unhinged", "Retard", "Grifter" etc, these guys speak like grade school bullies. Their choice of words in many places where they are making their personal attacks on anyone, seem to sound all the same now. Have you ever noticed? I have noticed this.
@@randybobandy9828 You would have thought they would be the biggest proponents of optimisation. Alex even had a recent video lamenting the fact that UE is so common but fails to fix core issues.
@DanielW-x4v Alex has had some pretty lame takes over the last years that has made me lose respect for him, this being one of them. He seems to be a know it all now.
As a developer myself (having worked on Halo Infinite, Saints Row 3 Remastered, Atomic Heart, and other projects), I wouldn't say you're wrong. However, we are always under pressure to ship our games as soon as possible, with promise to fix any issues with day 1 patches, and optimize our pipelines later This reminds me of the time when the Halo Infinite was showcased at E3, and everyone started talking about the graphics. They said they looked outdated and reminded them of Quake 2. The graphic designers and render programmers were struggling to decide how to improve the graphics. After about a year, they completely rewrote the shader logic, render features, and implemented an uber shader system. We rarely have enough time to make everything right, and some of the top managers and leads have fallen into the trend of using Unreal Engine 5 with all its latest features "latest and greatest"
Thanks for this Romix , I suspected that time pressures were leading to the lack of optimisation in games. I don't think it's sustainable as it relies on players having more powerful GPUs - which are going to be based on more expensive silicon as time goes on.
I, for one, never understood the complaints after the initial H:I showcase and I also enjoyed the graphics a lot in the finished game. I appreciated your and your team mates' work! :)
Yeah ... but why would it matter? A consumer pays for the end product, and the push for visuals comes from devs and publishers who use it as marketing tool, not from the consumer. People wouldnt even know what ray tracing is if it wasnt now slapped onto every game.
The Studios upper management should have learned by now that games are supposed to be fun, not just "WOW, IT'S JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!" kind of graphics. There are plenty of fun and money-making games out there that don't rely on superb graphics, such as Balatro recently, or 3D games like 7 Days to Die and Payday 2. Somehow, the better the game's graphics become, the less fun it gets when it's supposed to be the opposite.
@@Mankepanke Bro, come on. You had a trailer with empty terrain with like 10 trees pretending to be some broken un forest with some empty untextured floating squares everywhere. Graphics are more than just detail fidelity, art style and level design are a big part of it, and the first gameplay trailer looked insanely bad. After so much hype it was understandable people were let down. Dont overpromise, and people wont be disappointed. But everything has to be bigger and make more money every year, so cant slow down, gotta make those billions.
I don't understand the deeper technicalities, but even I noticed how some companies got way too comfortable with simply saying "buy a better hardware" instead of proper optimisation leaving titles that come close to 10+ year's old looking better than their new product.
well this comes down to the average gamer setups. A lot of the time it is a case of buy better hardware. But when the people who know how to build hardware and the relative specs of the engine against it state it's bad, you have to listen. Unfortunately this industry is full of people who dismiss others because everyone is tired of arguing and the internet is one giant argument in progress.
Average hardware needs to be taken into account but if a game looks the same as a 10-15 year old title but runs worse it's not an excuse. The devs are lazy, overworked or inproficient.
There is a massive divide between the "average gamer" and a normal person. The "average gamer" these days has a PC which costs about $1000+. While a normal person might have a family PC/Laptop that is about $500. The game developers are focused on microtransactions and tempting whales so they are focused on the $1000+ crowd not the average person. So for them the average consumer is someone who has the latest or last generation GPU and willing to spend more money for new hardware.
The two blatant examples of this issue would be ARK Survival Ascended and the new Stalker 2. Both games need substantial hardware to be somewhat enjoyable. ARK in particular is a great offender when it comes to lack of stability and optimisation. 4090 is the minimum for a barely decent experience in that game. It manages the groundbreaking 40-50 fps with high settings and no dlss/fsr. I'm at a loss for words.
Those comments from the Digital Foundry guys are gold. They say how bothered and sad they are to keep seeing videos like it but they don't address or argue against any of the actual points these videos make. A perfect summary of the echo-chamber we are dealing with.
@@Grandmaster-Kush They do point out bad taa/upscaling smearing and overly blurry/aliased issues in moving scenes though. They complained about it a ton in their videos about Horizon Forbidden West, and continue to with the videos covering FSR3 and Xess updates in Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart.
Because why bother? It's a waste of time. Just look at TI's unreal forum thread how he constantly belittles other developers and completely ignore any counter-arguments. If he weren't such an obnoxious knobhead, I'm sure people would have an easier time discussing this - but he's at the least just as toxic as the responses he has been getting, which conveniently are the only ones he highlights in this video to play the victim card.
there is an odd group of people who will try every avenue of large information consumption compression without ever actually seeing the source material. its brainrot manifest. ive had people put my own dang words into chatgpt to try and have it decipher subtext and dogwhistles to find bigotry in my language. IM A NEURODUVERGENT QUEER BLUE VOTING GAMER. it doesnt get more regarded than that.
Social media addicts. Spend more time on social media trying to get internet cred rather than getting work done. You likely also saw them at the snack bar at an adult daycare chatting for 1/2 of their shift instead of actually working.
I thought the reason performance is so bad in modern games is because of over reliance on automated tools and low studio budget + crushing deadlines. It's insane to find out that on top of that, there's also high levels of toxicity and inexperience + arrogance/hubris in the developer community which actively causes the developers to think they are smarter than they are and disregard other opinions
@@DatSun. yep. And just like in any other field, the real experts are the people who are willing to listen even to someone with less experience and willing to adopt new ideas.
They want to keep their job, and not work hard.. it's very simple to see. Incompetent individuals that piggyback off arrogant "vets" of the industry that has no following or backing, with 0 proof of them working in them... maybe the custodian perhaps lol
I don't think it's budgets, but bloat and inefficiencies from corporate and terrible devs. Games have much higher budgets now and studios are much bigger, but they fail to have performance and visuals that match our much more powerful hardware. For every 10x engineer, there's multiple 0.1x engineers. Those 0.1x engineers are the ones who have the time to yap on Reddit and Discord.
Look I am gonna be real and this is no comment to garner pity or empathy and no reading between lines(cut to cut words). I want to contribute your channel in a small way as I am an aspiring dev trying to figure out how to start and your videos gives me inspiration(even if the subject is highly techincal and 95% of explanation goes way over my head). Have a good day
The dude that said « Even gamers are OK with using upscalers at his point » I doubt he's playing video games, he doesn't realize that gamers are reluctant using these, your forced that stuff on us
If I can't run the game at native 1080p.. I won't be playing the game period. I have a 6900xt + 5800x3d.. if that can't even hit over 100fps at 1080p I won't bother lol
I don't necessarily mind using upscalers. Im on a 1080ti and it genuinely helps with some modern games (The First Descendant is a great example of where XeSS and Sharpening actually makes the game look better than raw dogging it). But using it as a crutch is where I draw the line. If a game is unplayable without it then I assess if the tech is worth it. If so, I upscale, if not, I uninstall.
Upscalers were originally designed so lower end hardware can run more demanding games. Of course, these people started abusing it to get away with less optimized crap.
@@Erik-cl5ff This isn't completely true. It is correct, but you have to factor in Raytracing's effect on what can be achieved versus the performance of hardware we run it on. It's not that the lower end hardware cannot run the game, it's that with raytracing it cannot. That's nothing small to sniff at. And best practice use as part of optimisation is actually the best use of it. Especially when used in subsystems with distance field based lighting systems.
I really hate when people refuse to learn from criticism and just call others "grifters" or say they're "harassing" because of the criticism. People really need to accept that they have flaws and make mistakes and work on them instead of just burying their head in the sand when they face any non-positive feedback.
Need to shut him up asap. It’s not a problem when players are buying it like Black Myth Wukong. There’s tons of visual artifacts but it is still a renowned graphically impressive game.
@@happybuggy1582you missed the point. the game would look just as good with significantly more performance overhead if it didn’t use nanite and other graphics pipelines obscenities as much as it does. that’s the whole point.
That guy literally took an AI summation and plugged it into an AI with a prompt that essentially says "think for me" and acts like anyone else alive is the fool? Literally what?
I just don't understand why are people so opposed to baked-in lighting. It can look gorgeous if you do it right and is so incredibly cheap performance-wise. I'm pissed no one is doing it anymore.
I've been saying since Crysis came out, "imagine if we actually used the insane power modern hardware offers". ( Crysis ran on ONE core and GPUs magnitudes slower than what's "standard" today ).
@@mitsuhh Crysis was made assuming that CPUs were going to get taller, and based it's ideas around that. However, they guessed wrong and CPUs got wider instead. If they had made the game with the assumption that they would be offloading work onto 4 2.4ghz cores instead of 1 6ghz core it would have ran better with the tech we moved towards. Sadly, they guessed wrong, but that's what happens when you gamble on the future.
As a consumer I am tired of the developer defense force on forums like Reset Era. Developers are not the only people that work hard at their job. We should be allowed to criticize them if we don't see that your work is worth it. Tired of having to subsidize your sloppiness by buying overpowered hardware.
@@ArnaldurBjarnason That does not align with the videos I have seen. He gives well formatted information, and provides his processes and sources. He has rebutted his critics, showing the ignorance and disinterest that many hold against him. I don't think you are making criticisms in good faith.
@@JanPospisilArt Considering "oppressive" races, genders, and sexualities have been discriminated and pushed out of most AAA game studios, yes, bullying will in fact work.
I was thinking this exact same thing. The presentation of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal is good, and the games run fantastic on mid-range and low end hardware from the era. I'm just not going to pay for games that both look and perform worse. CS2 has it's own issues, but at similar levels of visual quality, I get easily 3x the framerate. That might even be an underestimate.
not only that, but they're also trying to convince everyone that this approach is better, and the craziest thing is that a lot of fools actually believe this bs just because they call themselves developers
Some devs forgot, some paid a lot to never get the proper education, and some won't be allowed to use the proper skills because optimizing is considered a "waste of time" to upper management who are the ones who pay you to checkmark an asset to be "optimized" (according to EG's low standards).
If you think that's bad. I am a Masters student that studied Games art as my undergrad degree. I have no idea how to create my own LODs. It was never taught because as my lecturer states, "Nanite can do it, so why bother." Even before we moved to UE5, it wasn't covered as a subject because Nanite was coming. I have to relearn everything because I want Lumen and Nanite off.
so true. Stalker 2 runs like crap, while Metro Exodus runs amazingly with even better graphics. Just the light reflection on the gun feels amazing in that game.
No we absolutely are not, this guy wants us to keep on using old tricks because hey we can eek out more frames forgetting that we will have better systems down the line. This will mean the emphasis will be more on designers and content creators, not those whom write code.
@TheReferrer72 Nah we absolutely are there, "old tricks " offer better performance and visuals than over reliance on temporal ghosted garbage. Indiana Jones looks good but at the complete behest of performance utilisation and optimisation, this video proves even minor adjustments can market massive gains. There is also NO market incentive for these better solutions. Better hardware is an excuse not a solution.
@@TheReferrer72 Hey, as a gamer with relatively little knowledge on coding and how all this graphics shit works: I really don't give a fuck how much better all of this will look and preform 2 years, 5 years, increasingly feeling like 10 years down the line. I care about how this looks and preforms right fucking now as in when it launches and you expect me to pay for an interactive combination eye test and slide show. Maybe show a *little* bit of restraint and patience to wait till the technology is mature and ready for prime time cause as it stands, if this software was your girlfriend you'd be getting slapped with a statutory at SUB-LIGHT speeds.
dude. WTF? I'm a 3D Modeler enthusiast, these random polycount looks like something I would do when first learning about modeling. I know better NOT to leave this many polygons in a game let alone a tech demo. this is ridiculous.
@@bjchez Well, retopology takes time and is a pain to do so I get why devs don't want to do that, but they should be aware of and transparent about the consequences of their laziness, which they aren't. I guess they're aware but the transparency definitely isn't there. Far easier to just gaslight us about how our eyes are broken than to actually admit that they're messing up games with poor optimization.
Imagine if this guy was offered a position to be in charge of optimization for unreal engine, or even in charge of optimization for a new unreal engine version. Keep up the good work.
You're not echoing superficial ad-phrases; You're actually investing the effort of measuring and making things actually and internally right. That is worth so much! Thanks for caring and making things good and right!
Those "Devs" saying stuff like "Just buy better hardware" are really the worst in my opinion. How many proper computer scientist are there using unreal engine anyways? How many just stumbled into the industry telling others to just accept their visually smeary garbage? Do they need glasses? A wipe for their screen?
100%! The *excuse* of _”just throw more hardware at the solution”_ really shows how myopic and ignorant (even if experts) have become. That phrase needs to die in a fire. There are exceptions of course but companies are SO focused on optimizing dev time that they forgot the original problem usually has multiple optimization solutions on _existing_ hardware.
@@kunka592 I develop on a 1080ti. But unfortunately thats EOL now and if it's not an RTX card then some of the new tech doesn't work properly, if at all. So I skip on the RT/PT for now.
@@JanPospisilArt His channel is about educating and raising awareness to consumers about real-time renderers. Most people on Earth also are not video game developers. So it's normal to have average people commenting on a video like this!
Guys like this are the people who made Blizzard, Bungie, Infinity ward back in the day. Sadly, guys like this *aren’t the average dev we have in the gaming industry today.* Plus the corporate and administrative portion of gaming is much larger
Even if everyone can afford that PC, what happens when everyone gets that PC and plays that game? These types will see that and go even further into crazy land and just abuse the now available resources to do even more inefficient stupid crap. As long as that mindset persists, you can have infinite amounts of money to throw at hardware and will still always end up getting a subpar product.
Steam hardware survey show total disvonnect fro devs owning expensive workstations thinking evetyone owns a $6000+ pc... When confronted they just tell you "buy 4090 or fuck off"
Also you can literally buy a 240Hz screen for $150 nowadays and even consoles now finally run some games at 120+ fps, any dev who is proud of 60 fps in 2024 has lost the plot.
“Just used the Transcript that Chat GPT made of his channel and yeah he has no idea what he’s talking about.≈” The mentality even transfers to the research process not only the vfx development. 🤦♂️
@@wrongthinker843 I'd say it is valid. Unlike chatgpt a wiki page is normally a condensed list of information with references to actual papers and books listed below from which you can open yourself.
Thank you for not backing down from these bullies. Keep it up! As a sidenote, i'd be really interested in seeing more technical videos, like your frame breakdowns, explaining the different graphical techniques used. (Maybe breakdowns of CoDMW 2019 or DOOM 2016 especially, since they use mixed rendering systems rather than deferred). Also i'd love some videos where you explain and show us examples of improved rendering techniques modded into Unreal Engine, as a kind of overview of how UE's rendering works and what fundamental changes can be done to it to improve things, i think that'd be fascinating. But ye, keep it up, cheers!
Honestly, how the hell these people enjoy buying expensive hardware, getting less and less in terms of fps and graphics and pretending everything is okay? I'm starting to believe that they are not as satisfied with the devs as they pretend to be... On another note, good job on actually fixing the issue, i'm already feed up of people suggesting band-aid solutions but totally ignoring the elephant in the room
You're young, fearless and willing to do the work - that threatens a lot of established egos in the industry. It would be weird if upsetting the applecart didn't make you enemies. Take it as encouragement that you're on the right path.
@@ScarfKat It is known that the programming market is full of incompetent devs... Makes you wonder how the graphics market is like, specially with failed artists who pick up a bunch of "ez AI" tools to do their work for them, take a screenshot (what's framerate?) and call it a day. Grifters, all of them. They just need to be uprooted. No self-respecting graphics designer ignores optimization.
They would give him the time of their days if he was wrong too, the way they straight up don't look at the videos after just hearing the things about the video is proof.
I wanted to say that I'm 38 (probably quite a bit older than you), been developing games for 15+ years now, and you're pretty much right on the money with most of your videos. I also share your views about the abomination of fake frames, temporal effects and temporal AA (for their smearing), and so on. In some cases I like the idea of the technology, like DLSS, but the ghosting makes it a tough sell. I've been quite outspoken about the shoddy work of others and have often received the same hostile responses, or the nearly cult-like line I hear all the time now in response to literally any criticism I offer, "making games is hard" (as if I'm not a developer myself and don't know what the process is like inside and out, thinking they could handwave my criticisms by complaining about the difficulty - for them - in doing basic things). This extends beyond graphics programming for me, and into lazy VR developers, people making lazy AI, terrible systems optimizations, etc. and deflecting all criticism with "it's hard, you don't get it." Keep going, man.
Right on. I think gaming and graphics in general has gone down this strange “the engine is better than the hardware so we need to find ways to fake the performance (via frame gen, DLSS etc).” It’s a shame native rendering performance isn’t still the core priority. Because if it was, I’m sure a lot more optimisation and care would be placed into the way the engine works much like how Threat is demonstrating. If I could play Quake III at over 150fps in the 90’s on my Mac at high resolution, why am I playing games 30 years later at frame rates 5 x worse? The engine and fidelity/fx has progressed faster than the hardware and optimisations.
The same have been modding since 2001, never made a full game but it as taught me a ton about game dev and this guy, has the heart in the right place, unfortunately IMO he is fighting a losing battle, modern game dev is so expensive that they will sacrifice image quality anytime, if that means less dev time and less money spent on development and that is what UE5 is trying to give them.
Believe me I was fighting this fight when I was building and selling PCs, there's no point. The marketing is too effective, and consumers only care about these features regardless of whether or not they're good, or even available to use. I gave up, I couldn't sell that garbage for the prices they were expecting us to charge anymore. NVIDIA has won, and it has made gaming worse for it.
I dont have much knowledge on how to optimize games. But the moment i saw that(3:02), it made my blood boil. Thats no different from yandere simulator toothbrush vert count.
I don't understand why everyone is brushing this stuff off. If you have eyes, anyone can clearly see how image clarity has degraded since the rise of UE5. Just look at your screen... I really miss the days of crystal clear games...
@@SlyNine What is the point in "progress" when it's making everything look worse? Ray tracing is garbage and most people can't even tell the difference.
@@DosonTheGreat So lemme get this straight, according to you people, "Image quality has degraded and it's clear as day", but at the same time, you claim that "ray tracing is garbage and most people can't tell the difference"? Same raytracing artists have been using to render out shots in CAD/CAM apps using stuff like Vray, apparently all of it was something most never noticed. The holy grail of visuals, was a lie. I agree with Threat Interactive when it comes to performance issues and garbage AA. But saying that raytracing offers nothing is just whole new level of silliness. You've replaced one extreme with another.
@@desmasicI would argue triple A has one disaster after another and they focus on graphics while gamers don't care outside of a super minority. It's GAMES they are selling. They should play well and be responsive. If graphics were all there is games and anime or cartoons would always loose to movies and every movie would be a blockbuster with its "realistic graphics and high detail realistic rendering of real people" (hope you got the joke). If it would be about graphics Minecraft wouldn't be one of the best selling games of all time, nor would Nintendo's IPs. Yes, I find ray tracing brings nothing to the table and styled and optimized games of 2010-2016 were much better. I still have to find a game today where I would leave ray tracing on, or any other gimmick. Ray tracing could be good in 10 years at the pace we are now, any other gimmick only makes the game choppy and worsens the image while faking frames..
How much years pass since industry defeated "cinematic 30 fps" mindset? Looks like we are going back, few more nvidia cards generations and we are going to look at 30 fps upscaled vague blob and influencers telling us that for better graphic in games there is need to be a new console generation.
I'm a 3D and VFX artist working in the film industry and I see this trend as well. I've seen lighting artists complain that their render crashed, upon investigation, it was RAM'ing out a half a terabyte of RAM render node. There is no thought put to optimization, models with every UDIM being 4k, ridiculously hi poly counts. It is frustrating as these fields become more art related, the technical knowledge required lessens to where the artist never knows nor cares what happens in the background.
I would suggest that the utter disregard for technical limitations is partially due to artists being hired with no relevant experience. Like when game studios hire non-gamers to make design decisions about games, it doesn't make sense. Unless a company is willing to review and guide artists to meet optimization requirements, they must hire artists that at least have a concern for end performance.
to be fair they should not need to try to optimise, all professional coders can tell you it’s the compiler/engines job, extra optimisation should be a bonus
@@oCMSo This is not true, part of an artists job is to understand and work with the confines of the tools they have to make art. Forgoing consideration of polycount when doing digital modeling is like being an ice sculptor who thinks it’s ok to sculpt inside a volcano They are working against the tools and environment they are given which shows the marks of an amateur artist
@@oCMSo I'd have to disagree here. You cannot throw whatever you want at an offline render engine and expect it to perform well. Lower render times and even better visuals can be achieved by following simple rules that actually end up being part of the craft. Modelers learn correct edge flow for animation, shader artists learn that not all passes of a material need to be the same resolution, a lighting artist learns to be conservative with how many samples to assign to their lights. It is unfortunately these things that are either not being taught or ignored, as time required to craft these things lessen to maximize profits.
To me games already looked great in 2015. In the past 10 years it feels like we've really inflated technology costs for absolute minimal fidelity gain. Thank you for making this videos, hope the channel continues to grow
Games have not improved much, we have games from 2018 that look as good as AAA 2024 releases. The difference is you can barely get playable frames in the new games compared to the old and there is no visual benefit
Minimal fidelity gain? That makes no sense. The graphical improvements have been extreme. I mean, we have gone from needing baked lighting for global illumination to a fully realtime dynamic global illumination solution. This is one of the 3 holy grails of game dev. The other two being Raytracing and Path Tracing. Things we never conceived as being possible in realtime 10 years ago. I literally studied all kinds of GI solutions from AHR (approximate hybrid raytracing) through to VXGI from Nvidia. What we have now, if used properly, is the best option on the market right now. But Lumen requires knowledge and tweaking. It's not an out of the box solution. But people think it is. I work with unreal devs all day every day and let me tell you most of them are just winging it. They don't study properly. They just want to make quick cash , pump and dump and move on to the next. Most of them don't even do the paperwork first.
I love how they say you don't know what you're talking about, yet you go pretty deep into your analyses, even completely going through the calls of a frame. How much deeper are you supposed to go? Debug the shader machine code? I've been coding for over 30 years. I love your passion and even if you were completely technically wrong in the details, your point is spot on ["games be gettin' shiddy"] and something the whole industry needs to hear. If TI was an actual funded organization with projects, I'd be tossing my CV in.
That "buzz words" argument was so bad it's like "tell me you never had a dictionary in your hand without telling me directly". Asmongold, as much of troll as he is, was honest and straight up said "a lot of this stuff went over my head" but did not call BS due to lack of very specific knowledge.
@@Diogenerateno, i think the op just meant that even if he didnt get the specifics right or lacked expertise (which is the most common "argument" npcs toss around about him) that the core of his points which he is trying to convey would still be a valid point and a noble cause. I dont think they were bringing the validity of his technical arguments into question. Thats how i interpreted the comment anyway.
True, lots of people dont even know the inverse relationship here should have a 20-40% weakness threshold depending on how complex or basic the topic for it not to be an insult. this threshold seems to vary dramatically among "certain" people. 🤣
Suggestion for future videos : When you show things on your machine and use your machine for testing and measuring performance improvements, it would be good to establish from the beginning the specs of your machine. Yes, you said "as we defined in our last video", but that would require the viewer to stop the video, look up the video you mentioned (you didn't link it on screen nor in the description, so I'd have to look up your video list and compare upload dates to find out which video you're talking about) and find the spot in the video that is relevant, which is, contrary to what your channel claims to be about, not very consumer friendly. Just have a slide for 5 seconds that lists what CPU, GPU, how much RAM and other relevant stuff that you're using. You can re-use that slide then for other future videos.
I'll update the pinned comment soon. I use the same hardware for every video(analyses ones I usually state the Desktop 3060 usage) but it's a good idea for newcomers.
@@ThreatInteractive Yeah that would be great. I only watch the occasional video that comes up on my home page, so knowing the hardware would help a lot to establish some context for the performance numbers you put on screen.
writing these is like building a brick wall first day someone comes in and puts the first layers down the next day someone else comes and does the same third day another person comes in and places the bricks but makes a mistake and doesnt do it nicely so fourth day someone else comes and chips a brick so he can fix the other guys thing so it can work but the balance is broken so now every day from now everyone puts a hack in the code so it works without considering if its good or not and when some time passes lets say like a year its a mess that no one can fix so no one bothers
The problem is that most modern graphics effects, are very noisy by default and they don't know how to solve that, besides using TAA and introduce blurriness, without that those effects would be impractical, so they know this guy is right but nonetheless, graphic developers will fight this "anti TAA" sentiment with all their force, because is a crutch they require and that means even insulting TI even when he is right. But he also needs to stop falling into the trap and ignore the insults, even if I know it can be hard sometimes.
Them turning to insults just means that they don't have any valid arguments to support their side. Keep up the good work, I may not understand every technical detail you cover on your channel, but I've learned a lot about Unreal ever since I subscribed.
Thank you for finally answering my gut feeling about games nowadays not being optimized properly (especially since MH wilds spec was announced). I hope one day you can make a rival game engine that competes with Unreal Engine, not just modified Unreal Engine
You're getting pushback because of something I've been saying for years. It's not just greedy publishers and projects increasing in scale that is the issue today, it's young inexperienced developers that have been educated with what I for simplicity sake called an "Unreal Engine-mindset". Because of the raw power available in both software and hardware developers don't have to get creative like before either. Since you mentioned MGS V in another video I think the first MGS on PS1 is a great example of a game pushing way beyond the perceived graphical boundaries of the console. I don't know shit about game development, but just as a consumer it's clear to see what's going on. I really enjoy your videos! They factually prove something that I felt but couldn't explain or put into professional terms.
I can already hear them screaming "But it's so much easier to just drag 3D scans in and turn on Nanite, instant workflow!" Yes, it is. It definitely is quicker and easier. But it has drawbacks, especially since it's still new-ish tech. I don't doubt that it'll get better over time but we're not quite there yet to just give this tool to anyone and expect great things, it's a tool which requires a lot of care and fine-tuning to use it properly. It's not terrible by any means, but it must be handled with care. But with this new generation of game devs who learn game development using RUclips tutorials we can't expect that they put this much effort into it. And don't get me wrong, learning with YT is perfectly fine, but there's a point in time when learning is done by practice, gathering experience, doing your own R&D, and by learning from other veterans, not just from tutorials. But this is the world we live in. Coming from a professional EAI architect background, selft-taught CGI artist, and now on-going self-taught game dev I see this in every area of expertise.
Actually a million poly isn't that bad. I was using a 2million poly cathederal model about 10 years ago to test UE4's ability to handle increased poly counts over UE3. It worked fine. Had my target fps and everything. See polycounts are not really an issue in Unreal Engine. Clean geometry matters obviously, and optimisations aside (when 2mil poly could be 200k with normal/bump/etc) it's mostly drawcalls that hurt (or since UE5, also bad use of Lumen/Nanite).
@@danielschmid8530Nanite and Lumen specially with the ever growing prominence of Unreal Engine 5 are used as crutches and optimization goes out of the window entirely for that to be handled by resolution upscalers and frame generation. The problem is specially prominent with Bloober Team's Silent Hill 2 (2024 Remake) where ray traced solutions are used innecesarily for what is essentially for the most part, static environments. Fog isn't even used to actually lower the draw distance and make the game less taxxing on hardware (which was the point of it's existence in the original release for the PlayStation, a 5th generation console), and there is no solutions for LoDs, if any at all. Sensible and rational decision making seems to be dead nowadays in the AAA industry because a lack of actually competent educated developers combined with an overreliance on resolution upscalers, frame generation technology and ray tracing implemented ad-naseaum even when there are less expensive solutions (I am of the position that ray tracing needs to actually be justified in it's usage given it's huge performance impact even with modern hardware) that can achieve acceptable results either way. It's sad what has been happening lately, but I'm not surprised if I'm fully honest.
@@tehf00n A two million poly model, means nothing on its own! A game is made of more than polycounts, there's code/script logic, AI, sound, shader computation, particle effects, physics, etc, etc, just because a 2million poly model, worked fine on a test scene that doesn't mean, a real game would be the same. Then there's the fact that the player hardware also has a huge influence, unless you only want to make games for the latest and greatest hardware, then you need to think about performance targets.
The ageism from the other developers towards TI is completely ridiculous. I was young once too, and questioned a lot of things, and was put down for it. Now as someone older -- I LOVE it when younger people see things I don't see and take the effort to point them out. You have more wisdom when you're older but you also take more things for granted which means you sometimes miss the fundamentals.
It's not about age, it's about a combination of being wrong (cherry-picking a narrative so it works for the gamer crowd, while the industry pros laugh at half of it) and being extremely aggressive about it. If someone enters a room by breaking the door, only fair they get the boot treatment. And yeah, spreading misinformation for the personal gain. Massive Yikes.
@@mercai As a(n older) gamer, I disagree. I discovered TAA reduced quality on my own playing games long before I found this channel. I'd also argue OP is passionate not aggressive, but I know people have different tolerances for that. However, there was aggression when he got banned for questioning TAA.
So wait, the admin of the Unreal Source discord tried to say "TI insists on testing with prehistoric hardware..." which he's referencing 9th gen consoles consisting of the same generational hardware as the RTX 3000 series, but proceeds to say the performance loss is way smaller on RTX 20xx series. So, is RTX 20xx better than RTX 30xx and 40xx? And how is RTX 40xx worse that 9th gen consoles hardware? I'm so fkn confused, someone make it make sense please my brain hurts. Also, buying Unreal Source admin spot $50 like that guy.
He said greater than RTX 20xx series so he didn't watch TI's video and thinks Ti runs benchmarks on a 2060 or something. He's probably just out of touch because he has a top of line Nvidia GPU and hasn't experienced low-end FPS if he plays any games at all.
@@chisel4164 Same problem we see in web design, built on new hardware and gigabit connections. The difference is that some websites will run badly on any hardware you throw at it, because some web developers also have no standards on top.
I legit do not understand what the F those comments are, just mentally ill troglodytes shitting on someone just because they can. Sad, sad creatures. No wonder they banned him on reddit lmao.
Good job, kid. I would not be surprised if much pushback can be linked to issues with pride and jealously. Pride is especially good at hardening the hearts of hearers. Respond in humility whenever possible, it can be a good way to heap hot coals on the consciences of the cantankerous. And keep at it!
Thank god truth depends on the type of chair used! /s Oh wait, it doesn’t. De Nile is not just a river in Egypt. 😂 The ad hominem attacks let everyone know that these people would rather sweep the TAA problems under the rug.
I saw something in particular that caught my attention: "we as players accept upscalers now". Yes, having the OPTION to upscale a game when you don't have high end hardware or want a few more FPS is great, but that doesn't mean it is REQUIRED to make the game look good or at least run stable, those are two different things. I have played older games from time to time on very weak/entry level hardware, and games like Battlefield 3/4 look and play really good while looking more crips and in some cases even better than modern games on current hardware. DLSS and FSR are great as an OPTION for a boost on weaker hardware not a NECESSITY for everyone to have a pleasant experience.
It's not professional devs lol. Anyone who put themselves through a college computer engineering course would be passionate enough to optimize anything, it's the most fun part of all this! And you cant get through that kind of college course without that passion (trust me i know lmao.) It's probably amateur hobbyist devs that think they know better.
PLEASE READ FOR UPDATES, RESPONSES, AND IMPORTANT LETTER FROM FOUNDER:
1. Watch this video in 4K (as in streaming settings) as any lower compression will hide the visual details discussed.
2. We would really appreciate it if viewers could share on giant game related subreddits. These prevent self promotion but these can really push our channel's success by the thousands. Watching the full video without skipping etc also boosts the algorithm. We know some viewers want to help us reach more people and these are the best methods to do so.
*3. We used a Desktop 12GB 3060 in this video and pretty much all our videos. It's a little less powerful than than target hardware but of course it's not as simple at that. For now, we'll be using the card for multiple reasons for workflow stability/support and easy cross reference for viewers for our timings in all of our videos.
*4. So, commenters are now trying to convince us that we should "tone down" whatever they perceived as aggressive etc to become "less controversial". First of all, we're doing incredibly well in terms of industry reach and these ignorant people who ban or attack us are ultimately irrelevant to the change we're trying to create.
We will not stop anything that defines us and we will continue to express valid anger when we see such ridiculous issues such as 800% increases in basic areas of rendering that don't even break boundaries in fidelity (see the first 30 secs of our last video on dynamic lighting).
We need more people who actually focus on the issues we present: x.com/NOTimothyLottes/status/1868724204247695839
*5. Some people (who have zero understand of frustum culling) are currently discrediting the opinionated(as we stated) success because "half the outside content was removed". It only helped performance by less than .8ms when *only facing the entrance* . The orginal video has poor performance the entire time, we showed consistent performance. The outside content could have been left in if comptent tools where present to optimize the polygonal nanite mess that was outside.
*6. Stay Tuned.
RUclips compression isn't so bad, I'd recommend 1440p60 and up. This also excludes 1440p30.
1080p60 is pretty bad for fine detail on YT, but ironically, some of the issues you may have tried to show like possibly the screenshot of Asmon Gold didn't come through at 4K60 because the source quality was likely too poor to come through even without compression, while other issues were so severe they'd be obvious at RUclips lowest secret quality mode 144p15 with an even lower bitrate than the normal 144p15 mode, which itself is generally not exposed for most users as most users will be able to stream 144p30 without issue with network headroom to spare.
My nearly unlimited time messing around with Blender, Handbrake, Sony Vegas (not the newer versions from Magic or whatever their new owner is called) and some other free and paid video compression software all showcase the benefits of great video quality and have allowed me to assess great compression options. RUclips actually has some of the highest quality video compression amongst the existing free social media platforms. Of the free social media platforms I'm aware of in the US, RUclips's 4K60 and 4K60 HDR ranks highest in quality. If you can name a free social media platform with better video quality at such low bitrates, I'd love to hear about them.
i dissagree with you, i think saying "you cant use white list/blacklist" or "master/slave" in code is not important for the simple reason that "this has nothing to do with games being made" and its politics. The problem is precisely that time is spent on such nonsense instead of optimizing the engine and will be used to push away any concerns on the bad code and "blacklist" competent devs who want to improve things so nothing will change and they will continue to deliver a bad product. Case and point, the treatment you are getting by the unreal subreddit. Your code will be banned by name by unreal and you wont be able to contribute it, because of "tribalism", humans are tribal and pick sides, in this case they are too arrogant and proud to accept that they are wrong about something instead they will just call you "grifter" which they did.
They just cant accept that they might be wrong about something because to use their language it hurts their "grift" if someone does it better than them, they will lose their job, so they are just arrogant and dismiss anyone as bad faith while continue to double down on idiotic decisions that makes unreal worse in every conceivable way and remember, this engine is industry standard now, you have to use it.
It's crazy how powerful today's gpus are, but they are artificially being hindered by shitty graphic engines.
Just look at the new Indiana Jones game: on max settings it absolutely murders a 4090 even in 1440p, which is ridiculous considering the game looks absolutely 2017 at best.
@@arkgaharandan5881 sry but Code style guidelines aren't anything new, and they don't matter either, if you're too stuck on using master/slave, or you refuse to use anything but snake-case, that's a you-problem
Thank you for teaching me to be a better dev. I will take all this info to heart.
I'm not a game dev, but I've been a Software Engineer for 7+ years and it baffles my mind that anyone would openly reject or poke fun at suggestions to optimize. Its part of the job to know this stuff
Same. It's because game 'developers' are too reliant on their tools. Kind of like how you might have a react dev or something like that, someone who only learns to code while using a specific framework for a specific goal. They don't know how to optimize because they simply didn't learn it.
Same. Same. Same. SAME. These devs are an embarrassement! We got hardware that ON THE NUMBERS are 3 to 5 times more expensive for the performance we get relative to 10 years ago. I've been going crazy with the blurring of the graphics in cames and it turns out its this lot and their corporate pipelines cutting corners.
The term is called narcissistic nullification. Same thing happens if you lose weight in an obese family. You end up scapegoated.
Yeah, the eternal "you're making us look bad" mentality is something I think holding many fields back.
Can you really not fathom the fact that multibillion dollar companies could care less for quality work if the product sells? Part of it is complicity on the engineers part, but majority of the design issues come from management decisions.
On the company side, there is no incentive to push for optimization when there are tools like upscaling that 'alleviate' that issue altogether. The real problem is people buying these unfinished, unoptimized games.
People want change, they need to speak with their money cause otherwise these rich CEOs and companies could care less if the product continues to sell.
It borders on heresy how optimization is beeing treated nowadays, thinking back to how optimizing took months/years to make games run smooth on console hardware, while devs nowadays are just claiming "nah aint possible bro" without having spent any time on it
RE: while devs nowadays are just claiming "nah aint possible bro"
Unfortunately that attitude is spoon-fed to people via tech "journalist" who spread that way of thinking to a consumer level.
Thank you so much for the support! And we're so glad you see what we're talking about.
@@ThreatInteractive is it also possible that some directors dont give the devs enough time to optimize it?
The thing is, the developers are ALLOWED to cut corners whenever they want to, i understand how hard being a developer is, but back then devs took it as a challange to make games run as best as possible on the crappy machines we had, nowdays they rely on things like DLSS n other features like that, to optimise for them...
Sony Santa Monica had a small team spend 18 months just working on the flight behavior of the Leviathan Axe in God of War. An element of the game which was universally loved and praised as miraculous and not before seen in any video game. Quality takes time, but when it is achieved it speaks for itself. No need for an executive to openly lie about the first AAAA game when the players can see for themselves the attention to quality.
@@clerothsun3933 what I'm saying is that suggesting that some problems are not solvable so there's no point even looking into solutions is often wrong and is demonstrably wrong in the domain of the video's topic. Doing things poorly and cheaply isn't always a bad choice compared to expensive quality. But it is always a choice. And proclaiming it not actually a choice is disingenuous.
As a person who rarely notices small details, I am noticing obvious artifacts, ghosting, and static in UE5 games. It isn't like these are hard to notice.
When i was playing Stalker for a bit i first thought something was broken with my system. So much jittering, the lights are horrible implemented, TAA mandatory for effects to look correct. Only this channel made it clear for me that those are normal engine problems of UE5.
Exactly why I stopped playing stalker 2.. incredible letdown and I was expecting a great game.. yet it turned into a UE5 nightmare of complete and utter garbage. Sad days
@@FraggnAUT it's sooooooooooooo bad same with the AI.. I don't understand why they didn't continue with their previous engine... so dumb
It's the intense smeariness and ghosting that even the default project settings have for me. Unreal engine is great, but goddamn they need to fix some serious problems before adding another big shiny new feature
I am certainly not a game developer or any kind of expert on this subject, but so far unreal. 5 doesn't seem to quite be 'there' yet for video games. It looks beautiful when used by 3D animators But for gaming it really needs some work done to it
Love your channel, love how it's validating every suspicion I've had about these new optimization technologies such as nanite.
I hope that those who view this video take the messages and knowledge gained to heart. Maybe we can go back to making large strides in graphics engineering eventually lmao
Thank you! We appreciate the support so much!
what a Chad.
> says "just optimise it"
> people in the comments are calling him out
> goes and proves that they were all wrong and optimises it himself
4k with 45FPS with no upscaling? That is insane. You guys are saving PC gaming
Wtf no id rather dickride ue5 I love having a literal 10% of the framerate and blurry upscaled console nonsense on pc
I don’t think people understand what it takes to raytrace native 4K
@@neptun3189 I specialized in rendering during my programming degree, back when it was 100% on the CPU (single core BTW, coz no multi core and no 64bits CPU back then). It's kinda impressive where we're at with RT nowadays ... but RT ain't the core of the problem. Many rastered game runs like potatoes as well, some graphical options barely have any visual impact between normal and ultra but yet they kill your FPS. Game crafting is like cooking, if an ingredient doen't bring anything to the recipe, then don't use it.
@@neptun3189 Gamers don't understand shit about game dev. Unless you have done it, it's like guessing about space and time.
@@GuilleAcoustic Problem is that people don't understand Software at all. I'm someone who loves to light-read into these topics, and i still have so much to learn, but the lack of knowledge by people is sometimes "concerning" because they one used a slighter in a game x3
The pushback is frustrating, we just want games to run and look better.
And by better, I mean how the artists intended it to make, not being held back by underdeveloped technology.
Better doesn't mean more photorealistic either. I'll take a clear and smooth image over a stuttery or low performing photo realism every time
I don't need games to look better,they already look good enough,just please stop FORCING taa,stop making everything noisy as all hell,stop using taa to hide dithering,and make them run at a playable framerate on a decent gaming laptop not have to use an AI UPSCALER TO RUN IT ON A HALF DECENT PC or laptop i guess
You cannot run a lot of modern games on older graphics cards at any concievably playable framerate,yet instead of trying to make it possible to run at 720p at the very least so many of these games require an rtx card minimum,and for what? Ai upscaling just so it can run at all when top of the line specs should run it at atleast 60 fps on native 4k,yet they struggle to run 30 at native 1080p in many cases
But I'm doing so the devs who currently make games are being called bad at their job(they are) and that's why you get so much pushback
@@LaughingMan44 *realistic (I'm sure you meant)
This is our use case though and it's a popular one. The issue is that while aspects of realistic rendering might be improving, it's coming with major drawbacks and it's clear from consumer and developer support, we rather focus on solving these drawbacks than so call "progress" in a direction that is maybe different but not exactly better. On 8th gen, we had a lot of people agree we were heading in a better direction.
But the optimization issues we're focusing do benefit more stylized game still.
Make Their Incompetence HURT
Thank you so much! We appreciate the support!
Thank you for supporting this new indie gaming studio, I can't support as I'm still a student but I want to soo badly, all I can do is appreciate and Promote i guess
@@joen4287 That helps out too!
God bless you for supporting this amazing young man.
right on bro
The unavoidable truths:
1. Reddit is cancer.
2. Stupid people in large numbers should not be underestimated.
3. You will never convince ego warriors they are wrong.
4. Anonymity brings out the worst in people.
the gaming/computer hobby is the worst for festering a culture of know-it-alls who legitimately do not know what they are talking about
#2 is truly why PC gaming is where it is.
You should put stupid and LAZY
Reddit these days is so bad that it's honestly on par with a common RUclips comment section. Shit, even RUclips doesn't have the same level of dead internet echo chamber vibes as Reddit does.
Reddit used to be my last stand for intelligent conversations... HAH, 10 years ago it was a different site altogether, now it's a bunch of children; ps3 vs xbox 360 debate style crapshoot.
Indie dev here. You're doing God's work. I chose to stay on UE4 for my project for these reasons and I get lots of hate for not switching, but I have no interest in these cutting edge effects. I would rather give players a game that runs well and looks timeless than one that's gonna run poorly and look ugly in 5 years time anyway.
You'd think these "professionals" would act more cordially and engage with the substance of your arguments instead of making ad hominem attacks and banning you. The guy who admits to not watching your video and running the transcript through ChatGPT goes to show how little these people care.
Please keep up the pressure and show us how it's done! I've learned a lot watching your channel and wish you the best of luck with your project.
Thank you so much for the support!
The latest builds of UE4 support Cone traced GI and Signed Distance field shadow maps anyways, so it's not like you're missing out on Lumen lighting, just the optimization excuse of a feature that is Nanite and a whole lot of unnecessary bloat.
UE3 have so many timeless games runs so good imo. time goes to UE4 everything get worse and worse.
my GPU from 770 turns to 970 1080ti 2080ti then 4090 now, but gaming on UE games framerate get less every years, magic!😋
We Need Unreal Engine 3 : )
Games like Witchfire just proves UE4 can still go toe to toe with UE5 games visually while running buttery smooth on a budget pc.
Toxic devs telling people that « they don't understand how it works » as if your eyes weren't enough to understand that what you have in front of your eyeballs, is in fact, blurry ?
I can guarantee that most of them aren't even devs but schizo "allies"
bear in mind, the toxic ones are not devs. They are hobbyists likely making their first UEFN pre-made game mode from a tutorial they don't understand. Professionals know when the truth is told. It's the gamerdevs who don't do it for real who make assumptions like they are still in class and want to sound the coolest.
And those devs still defend the ray tracing in Hogwarts Legacy, claiming it’s good. If by “good” you mean flickering reflections that look like they're having a seizure, then sure!
@tehf00n Very true, the most vocal demographic on these communities are not people who spend their time making games, but people who spend their time talking about gamdev.
It's very frustrating when entering these communities because they're run by cliques of people who spend the majority of their time on Discord/Reddit. They parrot generalist phrases because that's the extent of their experience.
People who need to copy a "tutorial" verbatim for every little thing because they have a phobia for technical subjects and refuse to learn how things actually work under the hood.
With most of these tutorials being very flawed because their goal isn't to provide a proper solution but to kowtow to people who don't know what they're doing.
They never truly see the problems with what they're doing because of how mediocre their project is.
It's such a wild take. I don't need to understand how my food was made to know it's spoiled.
One of the dumbest arguments people use is "so you, a nobody, think you know more than a billion dollar company?".
Have we forgotten that a guy all by himself fixed the incredibly unoptimized loading screen of GTA5 (that had been out for almost 8 years by then), reducing it by 70%? A problem that would have taken a day to solve, according to him, if Rockstar actually cared about the quality of the product they sell.
It's not just about knowing (this man here does know a lot), it's about being willing to put in the effort to give the final user the product they deserve. A FUNCTIONAL product.
not only was it about loading time optimizations but the ultimate issue was a totally broken JSON parser in GTAV. Yes, the engineers of the most successful game company of the world don't know how to parse freaking JSON data properly.
This. The didn't want to do refactoring or optimization because it's long, boring, tedious. They want to do all the fun stuff, rather than the stuff we call 'work'.
those people must've never worked at a billion dollar company
👏👏👏
programming wise the quality of video game code is awful for no reason other then greed, a shame considering game development is exactly where you can execute the most innovative ideas 🥲
I've never donated to someone on RUclips before, but what you guys are doing is incredible and I hope it pays off. Cheers to trying to fix something wrong, I'll definitely look at any game you guys decide to produce in the future. Good luck mate.
God bless you dude. Wish we all could give a little.
Thank you so much for the support!
The fact that you got banned on UE subreddit is crazy and speaks volume
That sub is probably ran by people with no knowledge who love to talk about how gamers have no knowledge
Don't worry. Those aren't real forums. They're made by neckbeards with no connection to Epic.
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 lmfao correct
@@randyb.9143 They probably only made one game, not even anything impressive for a first game, and then go "look mommy I'm a game developer now!!"
Reddit is entirely stupid and doesn't have any importance to reality 99% of the time, since a really long time
They hated Optimization Jesus because he told them the truth.
we have a new name for him - Optimization Jesus 🙌🏽
He's HIM
FACT
good call😂😂
"Don't listen to him! Just by our $70 60fps (only achievable with dlss ai upscale, 720p native rendering, ray-tracing required) visual smear and don't ask any questions!"
"And if your system can't handle it, just remember you can always buy a new graphics card from my friend" wink wink
on a 4090 of all cards 😂 (I say that as a 4090 owner lmao, im so frustrated with the state of gaming optimizations and the constant regressions in visual fidelity)
@@RobertleeEtn it’s legit insane, i can get so much more value out of my card and cpu if devs actually put decent effort into optimizations instead of slapping dlss in their games and call it a day 🫠
AI requires training, which DLSS2+ do not... Also, if developers knew how to do it, TAA would have better quality/performance than DLSS anyway in about 10-15 minutes for configuration in any UE game...
No, I am not game developer, that is probably why I figured out that UE has commands for adjusting TAA (I know what is possible but I have never seen UE game with good TAA config, so I have no better explanation for this issue)...
MHWilds in a nutshell (yes different engine but still unoptimized on PC and currently still has frame gen for recommended medium)
You need to fix your RUclips channels optimization.
The youtube algorithm is a video ranking tool. What gets ranked is what's valuable. What's valuable is a reflection of our evolved values.
Your niche:
Ostensibly, your addressing a deficiency in modern game's graphic optimization. Anyone at all interested in the technical progress for video games, could be interested in your content. The vision of progress per se is appealing. Contending against the insufficient is compelling. Practical assistance for working game developers is also valuable. It seems honest, and generous. Humans like those things. It's a viable, and even potent area in the youtube market.
Your videos:
There are 2 primary predicates of valuable content on youtube. Pretty much if you get even one of them half right your video will succeed, because society is bereft of creativity. 1 video ideas. The proposed value, or substance of a video. If you want to advance in this domain, research, Generate, iterate, and edit till you have settled on an idea you want to realize. You don't need to cater to trends or anything, that's cringe. 2 video value. RUclips predominantly acts as a substitute for real relationships, I'd guess, so character is paramount. Honesty is good. People also like playfulness, it's an indicator of security, and status I think. That type of stuff... In regards to executing the video idea. You obviously have to fulfill the video idea at bare minimum. Then there's a hierarchy of creative skill beyond that. Most well performing people on yt aren't even on that hierarchy though. Most successful people got lucky with video ideas, or personality, or a little of both. Creative skill is how you take advantage of each aspect of the potential of your idea, using your terrific abstraction facility, and skill e.g. how do I write these videos well. what are videos? They communicate information, and are a visual, and auditory experience. How can I adapt the idea or the visuals for a better experience, or for more information? Generally they are filmed on a camera. How do I film? what do I film? How do I design what I film? I gotta be honest man, and you should take this well after encountering the overtly weak minded people on discord slandering you, your videos are creatively assssssssssssss. It's 7am, and my life is decaying, sorry if this is stupid. If I were you, and if you actually care, I'd recommend looking at other channels who do essays about technical topics, and things, and see how they conduct the same processes differently. The video could be more aesthetic. music? Your language use could use some adjustment. You could amplify the meaning of the video using your creativity. You could do so much more, if you want to. You tube is an educational tool fundamentally. Really your just contributing broadly to the story of human existence. Stories develop peoples perceptions, and through that help them navigate the world.
Marketing?:
Outside of that, facilitating conversion from impressions of your content through basic marketing in mere proposition of your value is sufficient to enabling the growth of your channel. This mainly comes in the form of a title, and thumbnail serving the function of atleast proposing the video idea. This is the case because RUclips provides impressions. So if a Video idea is intriguing enough for some click through from those impressions, and your content has enough value for those impressions to result in rentention superior to others video's statistics, then the youtube alogorithm will push your video, and you will succeed.
Random ass thumbnail ideas, which aren't that good, but are wayy better than whatever is behind your ones. This section is a kinda lacking. I copy, and pasted it from some old notes I have.
Thumbnails, and titles:
They convay the idea a video. They can provide extra intriuging context. They need to be unique, and attention grabbing, and simplistic enough to be interpretted fast. They are usually composed of 3 main elements, or less. Usually people/ environments/ props blocked in simple shapes for ease of eye movement. The structure in this way should be considered. You should make multiple variations of what elements you choose, and the structure of those elements. size of elements determines it's priority in the idea proposition.
-avoid dead space
-Faces/ expressions/ action attracts attention.
-Text over complicates it so 3 words are maximum, but none is better. place in top/ centre right/ left, never bottom or middle.
-Depending on the video type, a quote can be intriguing.
-You can use beauty or provocation.
-the thumbnail can have a relationship to the title
-consistency between thumbnail style enforces reputation, and name recognition
-In relation to colours, use the colour wheel, I'd suggest your colours contrast, I'd suggest you use vibrant, and none vibrant colours. I'd suggest you use atleast 3 colours. You can keep those colours consistent video to video.
-you can make your thumbnail design artistic, and less optimised, which works well e.g. creative texture or font or colour or line choices. You would be considering tone, a lot more in making style decisions. e.g. like a posture, or an actual piece of art.
-depth is better than flat, and creates more novelty. background gives depth, it's not dead space.
-There should be cohesion, and consistent high quality image
-you should emphasize elements of thumbnail. size, thickness, stroke, shadow, or gleam, brightness, clarity, sharpness are the tools you use to do this
-novelty is like the main source of effective thumbnails. This can come from creativity in manipulating nature, and subverting tropes, or accepted ways of seeing something
-I'd prefer more artistic than optimised, as it would bring a more sophisticated target audience. To much saturation, and exaggeration looks like dogshit.
-we look at thumbnails from left to right. You need to think about how this, along with colour, and scale impacts eye movement.
-be detail oriented in creating thumbnails, improve every little bit
-showing more than 1 image in the thumbnail isn't advised unless necessary to pair separate existing things for meaning.
-arrows mitigate against poorly structured low contrast images
Some of this nonsense applies to titles as well. I'm not bothered to explain further. titles can also exploit punctuation stuff, and poetic stuff, and rhetoric stuff. it also doesn't necessarily just have to be the video idea.
For you in particular I'd say you need to be way more simplistic. Less specific. more ambiguous. Use strong adjectives about the significance of your points e.g. Unreal engine 5 is misleading... unreal engine 5 is immensely disappointing. By god, Just please stop writing 2 titles in one. That is a terrible idea, I don't know where you heard to do that. I mean it's not going to ruin your videos performance, but it's just not ideal. If you think about it, it's demonstrably a bad strategy. Here's a thumbnail idea. a crappy unreal engine screenshot, with it's defining problems, and maybe with a word actually integrated into the 3d environment of the screenshot like ugly. The comparison screenshots are good as well. Again your choosing ones with subjects which are too small. maybe just shot a car, or a tree, or a character, you don't need to show the entire 3rd person interface. It looks low quality. There's other marketing crap like when do you upload a video? or do you post clips to other platforms, and try to acquire external attention, or switching out thumbnails based on your analytics. You honestly don't really need to do any of that stuff to succeed. That's the least important part. I hope you see this, and if you do. I hope it's helpful, and coherent, and not stupid like me. Anyway I think what your doing seems really awesome. I hope you succeed further, and have tremendous impact on the the industry. Good luck.
We have some very tight strategy plans but thank you and we love the enthusiasm. We appreciate the support so much!
Kinda sad seeing people not even wanting to engage with this topic, especially Digital Foundry.
Digital Foundry are paid shills
Indeed, but they perpetuated the problem.
Thank you for the support!
Digital Foundry doesn't wanna go into the topic? Really?
That's disappointing to hear
@@nairocamilo Of course not, how else they're gonna stay on the good side of the big companies and get exclusive early access to make content. 💰💰💰
@@nairocamilo they are sony, Nvidia and unreal engine fanatics so ofc they wouldn't want to criticize them
The unfortunate part is that the blurriness and temporal flickering isn't super apparent in RUclips videos anyway, which is how games get sold these days. It's only when you play the game yourself on a nice display that these problems become most apparent.
Yup, low bitrate on RUclips hides so much and the fact most people watch RUclips on a small phone screen doesn't help.
They render it frame by frame at 1 frame per minute so TAA can work in the best possible scenario with no artifacts
This is true, I I've always wondered why my RDR 2 looks somehow weird compared to RUclips videos. I do not accept this state of affairs
I notice it on a 1080P display
yeah and apologists conviniently overhear the part where ppl say turn on 4k on youtube if available cuz of compression
It's soothing to see someone else give a shit. I'm tired of seeing fellow devs (in the games industry or not) cut corners because "the user/client doesn't know any better, they can't tell, it's fine, it just has to run".
Thank you for the support!
"Eh, PC gamers will just upgrade their GPUs" *cue Steamstats showing that the overwhelming majority of PC gamers are using older/newer midrange GPUs at best and hang on to their systems for years while less than 5% of the market use high-end GPUs*
Man is the Lois Rossmann of game optimization, hats off to you my goat
I'm an Art Director, with a RT VFX and 3D background, I've built shader/mat libraries for 4 games of various complexities in Unreal and Unity, and also more complex ones for my cinematics.
I don't understand the hate, everything you say in your videos is true. Of course optimisations like the ones shown in the video are to be expected, they are the baseline, who would split geometry on the floor like that and use separate materials? This environment is begging for a trimsheet.
And yet we see this environment existing in all it's unoptimized glory, relying on smear-producing fixes that I've been seeing for years and I was going crazy how everyone seemed okay with it....
Lights having such a huge radius is also incomprehensible, of course it should be the smallest possible. But I'd lie if I'd say we never shipped a game without lights like that. Where someone lied to get into a level designer position and just cranked every setting to the max to get best visuals and then had to lie their way through to not get fired (and God knows I tried to get them fired!). All these idiots defending themselves remind me of that guy.
The optimisations you do aren't the most complex, creme de la creme, Carmack-tier math deep-dives that are worthy of a nobel prize.... but they give results and what else matters? If watching several 10 min videos gives me knowledge to add 10 fps to my game: Thank you, young Sir!
You made me realise that TAA was a problem in our project, I zoomed in... on character movement our grass is blurry. That's getting fixed.
And your videos pushed me to disable Lumen, rely more on screenspace effects (works for my game) and start creating my own AO solution because Unreal's doesn't work with SSGI... lol.
Everything we do here is a model of reality and will never be perfect. It's all about the final image.
Get frames, get clarity or get lost! Hoorah!
From DanV with LOVE!
"Get frames, get clarity or get lost!" goes raw
I can't just believe how respected developers can't get down to the earth and admit and correct their mistakes like you did. I mean it's just not bad rep but it's also bad business when a game struggles to run even on a 3050 even with frame gen then that game is doomed to fail and that dev deserves to go bankrupt.
"You made me realise that TAA was a problem in our project, I zoomed in... on character movement our grass is blurry. That's getting fixed."
you really needed effort and that much time to notice this?
@@0Blueaura I don't think you quite understand the scope and time pressure development projects (of any kind) generally are under.
Also there is option to just model one section of dome, bake everything and repeat that to circle. Make reflection on floor just with mirror portal and it then run on phone 60fps without even getting warm.
That guy who asked ChatGPT to explain what you said - instead of y'know, listening to what you said for himself - is just beyond pathetic, I can't even find the words to describe it
why make it easy when you can complicate it tenfold
And isn't that ironic proof of how lazy and reliant on flawed tech they are..?
He doesn't wanna understand. It's a tactic.
This is the future of generations to come. Too lazy to even watch.
Bros next level lazy 😂 don’t let that man build your house, he’d use hollow frames to save on wood
Imagine getting mad at someone for pointing out how to make your engine run and look better for free.
We live in the dumbest timeline
THIS exactly haha
because lazy devs being called out they feel attacked deep down because they know they lazy devs
His videos inspired me to look at web gl shaders, as it is easiest entry point to enter I found. And I’m not even GP.
underrated comment, pin it
It's pretty much the same everywhere. Egos get tied into a certain way of doing things and there is resistance to change. It happens even in areas you'd expect change to be welcomed. For example, occasionally a breakthrough happens in speedrunning, but there is resistance to use the new methods because the play style is different from what it used to be.
Not a game dev at all, but as someone working with 3D Programs and 3D printing specifically, seeing that floor gave me psychological damage.
It´s really refreshing to see someone knowing what they´re doing. *Please* keep up the good work m8.
The virgin "YOU CAN'T EXPECT ME TO ACTUALLY DO MY JOB!!! JUST BUY A BETTER PC!" vs the Chad "I will gladly work tirelessly to make my software run as fast as computationally possible"
Underrated comment. Have a like.
Only in the video game industry this type of thing is possible. Crazy how every bad video game is met with the classic « Muh I know what goes into a video game !! ».
As if it was the only industry with complex project
Yes you can tirelessly make your software run fast then, you have Valve & Rockstar type releases which is alright for those studios, but many others would go bust.
@@TheReferrer72Maybe other studios should stop trying to emulate their success while cutting corners and do their own thing instead.
@@TheReferrer72 Even Valve dropped the ball when it comes to CS2’s performance. It’s laughable that the game doesn’t even run well on the Steam Deck.
the irony of using chatgpt just goes to show how these kinds of people operate
jeez ikr, i was like wtf when i saw that
This generation is cooked lol
Use of ChatGPT is maybe why a lot of their insults and other snide BS all sound similar.
It makes a lot of sense if you think about it
Graphics programmer dumping time into fancy new graphics solutions which use exorbitant amounts of computing resources unlike older more optimized graphics
Fancy new LLM which uses exorbitant amounts of electricity and third world labor to produce a summary which is inherently inferior to any understanding youd gain from actually watching the video
They outsource their thinking to a bot.
I can't even...
This video reminds me of Casey Muratori, who complained about the poor performance of Windows' terminal and a Microsoft developer told him that making it faster would be a Phd project. Muratori then wrote a proof of concept that ran over 100x as fast in a single weekend. Of course he then needed to spend another weekend and make another video to prove the goalpost movers wrong.
@@SlyNine are you just going to assume a completely unrelated argument to OP is good discourse?
hell?, make a faster terminal is a PHD project?, linux has a dozen of terminals made by amateurs and each one of them are faster, i mean, windows users don't care about a responsible system, so that's check out
Refterm moment
I think with UE5 it's more of an issue of the devs trying to create an engine that can do everything, rather than a lack of skill. They're trying to cater to so many different markets that the engine as a whole suffers as a result. People think of UE5 as a game engine, yet it's also used for creating advertisements, cinematics, archviz and so on. Each thing has its own workflow and quirks, and these often conflict with each other. For example archviz people might want really in-depth lightmap stuff with ultra high quality options that take forever to bake, where as games want more real-time stuff.
@@SlyNine google exists, and you are allowed to use it. mind-blowing, right?
Cheers to you and your team ! This has been a trend for a while now and quality control is close to non-existent . Everyone's putting products on a conveyor belt just to satisfy investors deadlines and profit needs . I would like to see your voice being heard and your findings to be used in real world scenarios in gaming studios . Enjoyed watching this , Happy Holidays !
Thank you so much for the support and kind words! Happy Holidays!
Merci ! Your videos are a public service. Seriously, how can people not realize that since, what? 2020? 2018? AAA developers no longer bother to optimize their games... And the fact that you're being dragged through the mud by people who don't even bother to try and understand your arguments, or even LISTEN to them, pisses me off! I hope you continue to fight for us players who are clear about the state of the industry.
Thank you so much for the support!
We are also glad you found the video informative!
Its been far longer than 2018 lol. Like started being an obvious problem in the early 2000s and has only gotten worse over time. Its also not a unique problem to graphics programming, All programs have been suffering from similar things. As hardware gets better there is less of a concern with optimization as it is less necessary plus as financial and corporate pressure increases there is a bigger and bigger focus on producing something that works just well enough as fast as possible.
@@CaptianSwan Sure, since early 2000s we had few games running poorly, but major AAA releases on PS4 and Xbox One at least were great most of the time (Red Dead 2, inFAMOUS Second Son, The Division, Uncharted, AC Unity, Batman Arkham Knight, Detroit Human... and so much more)! Nowadays, AAAs are ALL running terribly, with very few exceptions
@@fallen_em Maybe I'm just used to those triple a games running like shit because they were optimized for console hardware and had poor pc ports if they had them at all.
Same here, no clue how people are so blind to this
Man, your work breaking down the real issues in modern graphics programming is incredibly valuable and hits home for those of us who actually care about proper engineering. The way you back up every claim with detailed analysis and actual demonstrations is just eye-opening - we really needed this wake-up call in an industry that's gotten way too comfortable with brute-force solutions.
It's so refreshing to see someone stand up for optimization craftsmanship, especially when facing pushback from folks who seem to have forgotten (or never learned) the basics. Your systematic approach to exposing issues like TAA blur, quad overdraw, and polygon optimization shows what real engineering looks like - spotting problems, digging into root causes, and coming up with elegant solutions.
Just want you to know there's a growing community of developers who totally get what you're saying and appreciate the guts it takes to challenge the status quo. You're helping preserve and revive what feels like a lost art of proper optimization and thoughtful engineering.
Keep fighting the good fight - your work matters more than you might think!
It breaks my heart seeing a field that should be founded on rational and analytical thinking being populated by people who resort to tribalism and blind trend-following rather than engaging with actual technical arguments. The way they attack you without even attempting to refute your well-documented claims shows they've lost sight of what engineering is really about.
Bless you dude.
Thank you so much for supportive comment!
We appreciate the donation!
So true... Man im glad I found your comment, its truly refreshing to see we still have people like you
Hi, I am a somewhat new dev on Unreal, and I found it really hard to find optimization tutorial on the engine. As most rely on the fastest tools to be able to publish 10 seconds shorts. Your channel just shows how to propper work the optimization and I'm all on for it. Do you plan on doing full on tutorials, like a 1 to 2 hour complete interior or exterior lightning ? That would be so useful for us who needs to get to know so much. Thanks again.
I think he should do classes.
This
Same.
Absolutely true. I started out mapping for the Source Engine and there are so many resources to learn about optimising it available - a dev wiki, countless tutorials in video and text format, helpful veterans lurking on forums... But for UE, the best you get most of the time is a vaguely worded single-sentence paragraph in the docs. The more time I spend thinking about how to optimise my UE4 game, the more I get the impression that the vast majority of UE devs operate solely on guesswork. Even if you want to do things right, it's hard to find any proper answers about how to do it.
Just tutorials won't give them money, they'll probably launch a website to sell courses on it
Or maybe it's just a grift
We'll know soon enough
Thank you so much for your work. Please keep it up!
Thank you so much for the support! We will!
Those devs really just said "TAA is good actually, you're just dumb", the gall of these people. All you need is a pair of functional eyeballs to see how disgusting it looks in most games. Stop trying to gaslight your consumers.
The bigger issue is that they use Taa to hide things, so even when. You want to turn Taa off you are stuck with way worse visual problem besides aliasing.
The worst thing is that most of the time it is said by a literal nobody defending his "favorite corporation". Unfortunately resetera brain is inoperable...
I cannot believe they're using ancient techniques like screen door transparency and relying on TAA to smooth it out. It looks terrible in motion - blurred hair, smeared water falls - absolute garbage. It is definitely a UE issue, and I'm sad that some studios are abandoning their superior in-house engines for UE5. Epic need to start listening to the criticism about performance and graphics quality. Nanite sounds great on paper, but when you get down to it, it leads to huge models with no thought for basic optimisation and mesh simplification - pure laziness - and if it hurts performance, it makes for a worse game experience, fewer sales, and unhappy customers. That's not good for business, and right now the industry needs to start listening to the customers, because we're being let down on all fronts - from 'woke' game devs, ripoff HW manufacturers, and garbage engine graphics quality.
sometimes taa looks good, we just need to have a choice.
I actually prefer TAA for subpixel aliasing management and image stability, I think it's a great technology, it just has its use cases and limitations like everything else. A good TAA implementation requires a decent framerate target (if we setup TAA in an identical scene with identical settings for the AA itself, by lowering the framerate, we can observe how the lower the framerate gets, the more ghostly and blurry the picture gets due to previous frame data having a much bigger relative weight to the entire rendering budget) and a good balance of previous frame information gathering vs current frame prioritization, as well as good balance of pre- and post-sharpening passes and filtering.
Developers use TAA's inherent smearing of details to reconstruct detail in places where their techniques cannot keep up, and that is the problem. That's why and how you get a bunch of stipled and dithered effects fed into the render target before TAA pass that sometimes get through to the other side if the dithering/stipling is too agressive or on the other side if the TAA is not aggressive enough to remove those artifacts (it's actually always a balance of the two...).
DLSS, also, is a fantastic upscaler (along with FSR2 and XeSS, which are getting better and are mostly hardware agnostic, which is a huge boon). I am very happy it is a thing. I'm just not happy it turned into a crutch. If it was used as a tool to help truly weak GPUs and improve already decent framerates into HFR territory, it would be a stellar technology lauded universally, not just one having a polarizing reception due to it being hamfisted to resolve performance issues on hardware that is far more capable than should be required to run whatever level of fidelity is on screen.
Bro I felt so frustrated playing video games I finally broke and decided to upgrade from a 2060 to a 7800xt and while the performance was better, the issues I wanted to get rid of still stayed, I was so upset that I just spent all that money for nothing but now it all makes sense. Thanks for bringing this to light bro!
Interestingly enough the OP raised a point many have discovered on their own and it's one that dev's, both game devs and graphics devs seem to knowingly avoid. Six to ten year old+ games don't have these problems with their graphics so what changed in that time frame that could account for the issue? Well there is the point a lot of the old devs from both are now either working in independent studios or doing contract work to make up for the lesser skilled devs who have been making a good deal of the games the last 1-6 years and do not have the same work ethic or will to push back on team leaders about optimization, if they've even been educated in such a topic while in school. My advice start replaying your library of older games save yourself the money and enjoy life.
Lmao meanwhile I am over here still playing all the best video games with a 980Ti that is almost ten years old. If your video game requires more than a 980Ti which is an incredibly powerful card, it's a bad game that is focusing more on graphics than gameplay.
@@wowsnav Well, don´t go so far, is idiotic! just tell the true, no money, no party!
@@pedroferrr1412 Bro I am not a poor brown third worlder, I can afford a RTX 4090 it's just a stupid purchase because I don't play games that require that kind of graphics processing power because they're all trash games.
@@wowsnav 980ti was a great card
All I know is Red Dead Redemption 2 looked like it looked and ran on a system that had only 5GB of combined memory available to the games. Yes, the PS4 has 8 gigs overall, but 3 of those are reserved for the PS OS. Now we get games that barely match RDR2's graphics, while exceeding its requirements by a factor of 6. Something isn't right.
It's all in the video. Developers won't bother optimizing the engines and games. Too "time-consuming", and also not optimizing your engine/game means more hardware sales (more people upgrading their PCs and consoles...)
You'd be surprised how much an experienced developer can optimize a game. Look at the older eras of video games like 6th generation and before. The PS2 could run incredible-looking games at 60 FPS even, and it released in year 2000.
vram requirements are ridiculous especially.
After being told that "hoping 8GB of VRAM to be the minimum for modern gaming" was "naive", I started to completely lose my hopes for gaming communities at large. I get that my RX 6600 is underpowered, but as I said somewhere else, the GTX 1080 8GB was THE KING for so long, that today I wouldn't mind if it was only capable of running some games on minimal graphics. However, it just DOESN'T RUN now! Just 7 years later, and its DEAD. Something was really, really wrong.
Keep in mind that it doesn't have RT, yet lighting looks better then in 90% of games with RT. Also clouds and sky are still one of the best I've seen in games, physics are great and overall attention to detail is on insane level
Obviously not every developer can spend 10 years and hundreds of millions to make one game (though some - can, and result is often not even close to what R* delivers)
Driveclub too, One of the best looking games of all time runs on a PS4 perfectly fine.
My theory? Nvidia is colluding with EPIC to intentionally ignore optimization in the engine to force players to upgrade to newer GPUs because they think they need to for performance.
Not really a theory. That's a hypothesis. It's also more complicated than the simpler answer: They don't care and don't want to pay someone to care.
@@Unethical.FandubsGames It's a fact if you can observe
or the simple answer, they are just incompetent and getting away with the bare minimum
@@imo098765 epic is implementing things that Nvidia cards made possible with RTX, so I doubt it's a coincidence
"Haha your video sucks and full of nonsense"
"Did you watch it?
"No why would I?"
10/10
and the same devs make asset flips for quick buck and bending over on AI
Honestly they probably avoid the videos because they know they'll be proven wrong and can't handle it, lol. They're just desperate to protect their ego
It's crazy how that works
Because they know it is true and can't protect their fragile ego, lol
Lastly, the future of graphics isn't at the mercy of graphics programmers - it's at the mercy of educated consumers.
I love this comment and it's exactly where we stand!
Well, the consumers have mercilessly not purchased the plethora of woke DEI games released the last years, but the publishers are still continuing to waste resources on them. In the end, even the publishers will face the reality, but many developers will have been sacrificed before then. At the end of the day though, I, as a consumer, will probably enjoy a well written blurry TAA game more then a crisp-looking 4k@60fps DEI trainwreck.
@@ericsjoberg8167 “woke”. I’ll never understand why people call anything and everything “woke”
I’d be interested to hear what your definition of “woke” is. From what I see people call anything with a hint of progressiveness “woke”.
Also I do get how weird DEI stuff can get *when* it gets super pushed onto games/companies.
DEI is completely fine when it’s done correctly and in good faith. (It being done in bad faith would be doing it just to meet some goal or whatever)
@@zndrmn Let's take the recept slop "Concord" as an example. A fps shooter. What's the main demographic playing these games? Probably a white male. Out of 16 characters in that game literally only 1 was a white man (and they made him as much uninteresting as possible, just your average "soldier"). Sounds pretty woke to me.
@@zndrmn "From what I see people call anything with a hint of progressiveness “woke”. " - yes.
"DEI is completely fine when it’s done correctly and in good faith." - hell no.
Holy crap that one guy actually fed RUclips's crappy auto-subtitles to ChatGPT and asked for **its opinion**? Asking for a summary or some bullet points to reference while writing a point-by-point response I can totally understand, if he had done that... but asking it for analysis?!?
The irony of being an example of the exact mentality you're highlighting is so clearly lost on that guy.
A man so lazy he outsources his thinking to an AI.
Yeah it's wild how people can be so ignorant to their own flaws.
Like, these aren't very long videos, barely 20 minute longs videos. How arrogant you have to be to not even take that time out of your day?
Yes...he made a fool if himself! Just a poster on his forehead now "I am an idiot."
You shouldn't be surprised bud, AI has started doing all the 'work' for the new generation. We are at point where people are not critical thinking anymore but would rather have the AI do it for them. The guy you mentioned is a perfect example.
I try to use AI as a learning tool, ya it's quite capable of completing your work but are you learning anything?
I can't believe how basic design stuff I was taught just for making models for early FPS games in terms of polycount and what-not to keep things efficient ended up being forgotten and now you got all these Dunning Kruger sufferers who don't know about optimizing their models first but talk like experts in their field.
YOU are a godsend.
Oh my god this high poly floor is VILE. It's like seeing a modelling shitpost except it's part of a serious product.
It's a completely static completely flat floor. What the hell.
absolutly ridiculous, pin this
I wonder was it done purposely so that the demo works? I know they say don't attribute to malice that which is probably incompetence but at this stage like...
I'm merely a beginner at blender and I cringed HARD to this 😂
For real lmfao, it could be a simple parrallax map or hell, even just a dumb normal map
You don't need to be a chef to know your steak is burnt to a crisp.
The audacity of some people to disregard anyone who notices the regression in quality of games because we're not devs lol.
👏👏👏
As someone who's worked in a kitchen and had someone ask for a rare steak but had us remake it 3 times until it was well done I can confirm people often DON'T know what they mean or are talking about. lol
But yes you should always be willing to look inwards and gauge what part you have to play in everything regardless of where that feed back comes from, that said the core issues in the game industry isn't the technology, the developers/artists or software engineers its the people running these companies and the investors behind them that enforce insane deadlines, push for malicious systems or padding a game to hit some obtuse metric.
@@BigHeadClan As I understand it, the problem with UE5 is that the kitchen is designed to only output rare steaks. Most gamers want their steaks well done, but the kitchen staff insist that rare steaks are much better.
@@cyrussilver8230I think the industry wants our graphics cards ultra rare to sell more graphics cards. I want my graphics cards blue so I dont need to buy more.
I remember when we were excited for things like frame generation and upscaling because we thought it would extend the life spans of older hardware, but instead devs just used it as a way to cut corners so they wouldn't have to optimize their games to save time and money.
This is corporate thinking, I know this first hand. It's just status quo. If they can do something faster and cheaper, they will do it in the majority of cases. Often devs themselves but if not - their management will mandate this. Those techonlogies were never meant to be "for the players". They were supposed to "reset the ladder". And players did have to buy into them if they were to be utilized. So marketing did their part and people ate it up. Now it's similar to self-fulfilling prophecy. The techniques and hardware need to be implemented because it appears that there is a demand for this. People think they want it because it's being implemented and released. And the only people benefiting from this are manufacturers (mainly nvidia, who's marketing caused this) and devs/publisers. Gamers on the other hand vastly overpay for all this and get comparatively worse products than decade ago. And some people are still clapping. I've been beating this dead horse over this since rtx 2000 series came out :/. It makes one tired after a while knowing nothing will likely change.
Lol yes you hit the nail on the head, absolutely astonishing
That was always the plan. Was never meant to give value to the user. Always has been a crutch for the industry to save more mulah.
Not only that I thought the 4K 120fps days were actually here yet now you have games barely running 40fps
@@itizwhatitiz9560 That was a increadibly optimistic assumption based purely on the desire for it to happen. It's quite common. This is very unlikely though for several reasons that later on can be extrapolated from. Those could be: there would be no point in hardware upgrades anymore and there are official and unofficial "partnerships" inside most of the business domains. Corporations/businesses need to / want to be cost conscious and they will utilize whatever helps them achieve this, like e.g. like cut development time and quality or external aids (like e.g. feature suite propagated and marketed by nvidia). People themselves are often lazy and won't be bothered to optimize if they don't have to - just a human nature, especially when the dev domain grew so much during the last, say 20 years. It's statistically true that more and more people are in this that are not as passionate and invested nor skilled like developers in the past. Also the turn to use "out-of-the-box" engine solutions, when devs aren't creating their own tools from scratch like the early days, but are at the mercy of the engine that they must use - see previous points. This overall trend will continue with worse results (worse overall quality, more expensive) , as people are being conditioned to accept more and more of it and even defend it. You can take these points to a bank as a general truizms in this case.
I barely understand anything about developing games, all I know is that a lot of games that look like crap need a top tier PC. It's incredible how uneducated are a lot of devs who only think that you need to upgrade your hardware when their projects are soo badly optimized. Thank you for doing what you do and show us everything.
Also subscribed, your work is immensely important.
They can't accept the truth so they're trying to silence and insult you? That's a classic nowadays, keep destroying them, nothing can stop the truth
Its far too prevelant these days. If its not the insults they go for, its gaslighting or personal attacks.
And that authoritarian, condescending manner in which they talk down to people is just getting outright annoying.
The language they use Like:
"Unhinged", "Retard", "Grifter" etc, these guys speak like grade school bullies. Their choice of words in many places where they are making their personal attacks on anyone, seem to sound all the same now. Have you ever noticed? I have noticed this.
What got me was 2 of the digital foundry members (john and Alex) talking shit and mocking him. Those guys are bums.
@@randybobandy9828 You would have thought they would be the biggest proponents of optimisation. Alex even had a recent video lamenting the fact that UE is so common but fails to fix core issues.
@DanielW-x4v Alex has had some pretty lame takes over the last years that has made me lose respect for him, this being one of them. He seems to be a know it all now.
Yes, this OUT now! This young brilliant man unleashed the TRUTH. Now it is too damn late. The consumer KNOWS.
As a developer myself (having worked on Halo Infinite, Saints Row 3 Remastered, Atomic Heart, and other projects), I wouldn't say you're wrong. However, we are always under pressure to ship our games as soon as possible, with promise to fix any issues with day 1 patches, and optimize our pipelines later
This reminds me of the time when the Halo Infinite was showcased at E3, and everyone started talking about the graphics. They said they looked outdated and reminded them of Quake 2.
The graphic designers and render programmers were struggling to decide how to improve the graphics. After about a year, they completely rewrote the shader logic, render features, and implemented an uber shader system.
We rarely have enough time to make everything right, and some of the top managers and leads have fallen into the trend of using Unreal Engine 5 with all its latest features "latest and greatest"
Thanks for this Romix , I suspected that time pressures were leading to the lack of optimisation in games. I don't think it's sustainable as it relies on players having more powerful GPUs - which are going to be based on more expensive silicon as time goes on.
I, for one, never understood the complaints after the initial H:I showcase and I also enjoyed the graphics a lot in the finished game.
I appreciated your and your team mates' work! :)
Yeah ... but why would it matter?
A consumer pays for the end product, and the push for visuals comes from devs and publishers who use it as marketing tool, not from the consumer. People wouldnt even know what ray tracing is if it wasnt now slapped onto every game.
The Studios upper management should have learned by now that games are supposed to be fun, not just "WOW, IT'S JUST LIKE REAL LIFE!" kind of graphics. There are plenty of fun and money-making games out there that don't rely on superb graphics, such as Balatro recently, or 3D games like 7 Days to Die and Payday 2. Somehow, the better the game's graphics become, the less fun it gets when it's supposed to be the opposite.
@@Mankepanke
Bro, come on. You had a trailer with empty terrain with like 10 trees pretending to be some broken un forest with some empty untextured floating squares everywhere. Graphics are more than just detail fidelity, art style and level design are a big part of it, and the first gameplay trailer looked insanely bad.
After so much hype it was understandable people were let down. Dont overpromise, and people wont be disappointed. But everything has to be bigger and make more money every year, so cant slow down, gotta make those billions.
I don't understand the deeper technicalities, but even I noticed how some companies got way too comfortable with simply saying "buy a better hardware" instead of proper optimisation leaving titles that come close to 10+ year's old looking better than their new product.
well this comes down to the average gamer setups. A lot of the time it is a case of buy better hardware. But when the people who know how to build hardware and the relative specs of the engine against it state it's bad, you have to listen. Unfortunately this industry is full of people who dismiss others because everyone is tired of arguing and the internet is one giant argument in progress.
Average hardware needs to be taken into account but if a game looks the same as a 10-15 year old title but runs worse it's not an excuse. The devs are lazy, overworked or inproficient.
There is a massive divide between the "average gamer" and a normal person. The "average gamer" these days has a PC which costs about $1000+. While a normal person might have a family PC/Laptop that is about $500. The game developers are focused on microtransactions and tempting whales so they are focused on the $1000+ crowd not the average person. So for them the average consumer is someone who has the latest or last generation GPU and willing to spend more money for new hardware.
the problem is how can you buy better hardware when even the best hardware in the market can barely run some modern games at 60fps 4k ?
The two blatant examples of this issue would be ARK Survival Ascended and the new Stalker 2. Both games need substantial hardware to be somewhat enjoyable. ARK in particular is a great offender when it comes to lack of stability and optimisation. 4090 is the minimum for a barely decent experience in that game. It manages the groundbreaking 40-50 fps with high settings and no dlss/fsr. I'm at a loss for words.
I am absolutely baffled by the rejection of high quality development - thank you for uncovering how gaming on the low end goes to ashes.
Those comments from the Digital Foundry guys are gold. They say how bothered and sad they are to keep seeing videos like it but they don't address or argue against any of the actual points these videos make. A perfect summary of the echo-chamber we are dealing with.
I watched there Doom 1 + 2 video and there where praising how a 31 year old game was running at 4k 120 fps on modern hardware. its ridiculous
They hype up TAA with still shots, nuff said.
@@Grandmaster-Kush They do point out bad taa/upscaling smearing and overly blurry/aliased issues in moving scenes though. They complained about it a ton in their videos about Horizon Forbidden West, and continue to with the videos covering FSR3 and Xess updates in Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart.
Because why bother? It's a waste of time. Just look at TI's unreal forum thread how he constantly belittles other developers and completely ignore any counter-arguments. If he weren't such an obnoxious knobhead, I'm sure people would have an easier time discussing this - but he's at the least just as toxic as the responses he has been getting, which conveniently are the only ones he highlights in this video to play the victim card.
He was hating stellar blade main character
Did a guy really admit with no shame that he pasted your video into chatgpt? Who are these people?
LMAO! Yes, he did! Truly cringe and pathetic on his part.
there is an odd group of people who will try every avenue of large information consumption compression without ever actually seeing the source material. its brainrot manifest. ive had people put my own dang words into chatgpt to try and have it decipher subtext and dogwhistles to find bigotry in my language. IM A NEURODUVERGENT QUEER BLUE VOTING GAMER. it doesnt get more regarded than that.
They don't have the time to learn the job properly, let alone watch a video trying to school them on the proper way to make assets.
Social media addicts. Spend more time on social media trying to get internet cred rather than getting work done. You likely also saw them at the snack bar at an adult daycare chatting for 1/2 of their shift instead of actually working.
I thought the reason performance is so bad in modern games is because of over reliance on automated tools and low studio budget + crushing deadlines. It's insane to find out that on top of that, there's also high levels of toxicity and inexperience + arrogance/hubris in the developer community which actively causes the developers to think they are smarter than they are and disregard other opinions
just like the rest of the internet, it really isnt surprising honestly
Budgets and development cycles are larger than ever, so I don't buy that excuse.
@@DatSun. yep. And just like in any other field, the real experts are the people who are willing to listen even to someone with less experience and willing to adopt new ideas.
They want to keep their job, and not work hard.. it's very simple to see. Incompetent individuals that piggyback off arrogant "vets" of the industry that has no following or backing, with 0 proof of them working in them... maybe the custodian perhaps lol
I don't think it's budgets, but bloat and inefficiencies from corporate and terrible devs. Games have much higher budgets now and studios are much bigger, but they fail to have performance and visuals that match our much more powerful hardware.
For every 10x engineer, there's multiple 0.1x engineers. Those 0.1x engineers are the ones who have the time to yap on Reddit and Discord.
Look I am gonna be real and this is no comment to garner pity or empathy and no reading between lines(cut to cut words). I want to contribute your channel in a small way as I am an aspiring dev trying to figure out how to start and your videos gives me inspiration(even if the subject is highly techincal and 95% of explanation goes way over my head). Have a good day
Thank you so much for the support!
The dude that said « Even gamers are OK with using upscalers at his point » I doubt he's playing video games, he doesn't realize that gamers are reluctant using these, your forced that stuff on us
gamers should be forced to not have any upscaler option. 💪
If I can't run the game at native 1080p.. I won't be playing the game period. I have a 6900xt + 5800x3d.. if that can't even hit over 100fps at 1080p I won't bother lol
I don't necessarily mind using upscalers. Im on a 1080ti and it genuinely helps with some modern games (The First Descendant is a great example of where XeSS and Sharpening actually makes the game look better than raw dogging it). But using it as a crutch is where I draw the line. If a game is unplayable without it then I assess if the tech is worth it. If so, I upscale, if not, I uninstall.
Upscalers were originally designed so lower end hardware can run more demanding games.
Of course, these people started abusing it to get away with less optimized crap.
@@Erik-cl5ff This isn't completely true. It is correct, but you have to factor in Raytracing's effect on what can be achieved versus the performance of hardware we run it on. It's not that the lower end hardware cannot run the game, it's that with raytracing it cannot. That's nothing small to sniff at. And best practice use as part of optimisation is actually the best use of it. Especially when used in subsystems with distance field based lighting systems.
I really hate when people refuse to learn from criticism and just call others "grifters" or say they're "harassing" because of the criticism. People really need to accept that they have flaws and make mistakes and work on them instead of just burying their head in the sand when they face any non-positive feedback.
Need to shut him up asap. It’s not a problem when players are buying it like Black Myth Wukong. There’s tons of visual artifacts but it is still a renowned graphically impressive game.
@@happybuggy1582you missed the point. the game would look just as good with significantly more performance overhead if it didn’t use nanite and other graphics pipelines obscenities as much as it does. that’s the whole point.
That guy literally took an AI summation and plugged it into an AI with a prompt that essentially says "think for me" and acts like anyone else alive is the fool? Literally what?
LMAO!!!!! Exactly...he had no shame about being that tarded.
Literal NPC behavior
I hate that kinda behaviour. I didn't see the thing and so based on my awareness of the unknown I will prove the unknowable. 👍
The author of the comment I am commenting on is talking about a guy that is AGAINST this video btw. so people know.
Npc af
I just don't understand why are people so opposed to baked-in lighting. It can look gorgeous if you do it right and is so incredibly cheap performance-wise. I'm pissed no one is doing it anymore.
I've been saying since Crysis came out, "imagine if we actually used the insane power modern hardware offers".
( Crysis ran on ONE core and GPUs magnitudes slower than what's "standard" today ).
Crysis also ran like crap on the best hardware at the time
@@mitsuhh I played it on a P4 with a gf 8800 gt, just on medium-high not ultra, lol.
@@mitsuhh Yet still looks better than many modern games... and with better physics too! And runs smooth still in older hardware!!!
@@MarianoDevourment looks better than many modern games? Idk about that
@@mitsuhh Crysis was made assuming that CPUs were going to get taller, and based it's ideas around that.
However, they guessed wrong and CPUs got wider instead. If they had made the game with the assumption that they would be offloading work onto 4 2.4ghz cores instead of 1 6ghz core it would have ran better with the tech we moved towards. Sadly, they guessed wrong, but that's what happens when you gamble on the future.
As a consumer I am tired of the developer defense force on forums like Reset Era. Developers are not the only people that work hard at their job. We should be allowed to criticize them if we don't see that your work is worth it.
Tired of having to subsidize your sloppiness by buying overpowered hardware.
using reeeeeeeeeee-set era is just a bad decision. give yourself a little respect, never go to that site
The modern "anti-bullying" world sees any and all criticism as "attacks" that must be defended against.
@@ArnaldurBjarnason That does not align with the videos I have seen. He gives well formatted information, and provides his processes and sources. He has rebutted his critics, showing the ignorance and disinterest that many hold against him.
I don't think you are making criticisms in good faith.
This dude is a unique genius!
@@JanPospisilArt Considering "oppressive" races, genders, and sexualities have been discriminated and pushed out of most AAA game studios, yes, bullying will in fact work.
All the "get a better PC" people clearly have never learned about John Carmack. Keep doing the good work, man.
Rich people do not care about not so fortunate people that can only affird 3060 or lower hardware...
John Carmack is a GOAT.
or Chris Sawyer
@@roklaca3138 These games perform and look like crap even on a 4090, it's ridiculous. Nobody should defend them!
I was thinking this exact same thing. The presentation of Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal is good, and the games run fantastic on mid-range and low end hardware from the era. I'm just not going to pay for games that both look and perform worse. CS2 has it's own issues, but at similar levels of visual quality, I get easily 3x the framerate. That might even be an underestimate.
Respect
Thank you so much!
Relying 100% on automated tools is just ridiculous, like some devs forgot how to make proper LODs and handcrafted lighting.
not only that, but they're also trying to convince everyone that this approach is better, and the craziest thing is that a lot of fools actually believe this bs just because they call themselves developers
Some devs forgot, some paid a lot to never get the proper education, and some won't be allowed to use the proper skills because optimizing is considered a "waste of time" to upper management who are the ones who pay you to checkmark an asset to be "optimized" (according to EG's low standards).
Well I think TI's suggestion of AI automation of LOD creation is a good example of automation.
If a developer can't manually replicate the tasks performed by automated tools, I doubt they are truly a developer.
If you think that's bad. I am a Masters student that studied Games art as my undergrad degree. I have no idea how to create my own LODs. It was never taught because as my lecturer states, "Nanite can do it, so why bother." Even before we moved to UE5, it wasn't covered as a subject because Nanite was coming. I have to relearn everything because I want Lumen and Nanite off.
I CANNOT thankyou enough for your work we are truly entering an age of stagnated graphical gains for obliteration of performance
Man, I can't even run text based adventure games without usin unreal.
so true.
Stalker 2 runs like crap, while Metro Exodus runs amazingly with even better graphics. Just the light reflection on the gun feels amazing in that game.
No we absolutely are not, this guy wants us to keep on using old tricks because hey we can eek out more frames forgetting that we will have better systems down the line.
This will mean the emphasis will be more on designers and content creators, not those whom write code.
@TheReferrer72 Nah we absolutely are there, "old tricks " offer better performance and visuals than over reliance on temporal ghosted garbage.
Indiana Jones looks good but at the complete behest of performance utilisation and optimisation, this video proves even minor adjustments can market massive gains.
There is also NO market incentive for these better solutions.
Better hardware is an excuse not a solution.
@@TheReferrer72 Hey, as a gamer with relatively little knowledge on coding and how all this graphics shit works: I really don't give a fuck how much better all of this will look and preform 2 years, 5 years, increasingly feeling like 10 years down the line.
I care about how this looks and preforms right fucking now as in when it launches and you expect me to pay for an interactive combination eye test and slide show.
Maybe show a *little* bit of restraint and patience to wait till the technology is mature and ready for prime time cause as it stands, if this software was your girlfriend you'd be getting slapped with a statutory at SUB-LIGHT speeds.
dude. WTF? I'm a 3D Modeler enthusiast, these random polycount looks like something I would do when first learning about modeling. I know better NOT to leave this many polygons in a game let alone a tech demo. this is ridiculous.
This is what nanite is causing, now even professional modelers don't try to optimize their geometry anymore, they expect nanite to do magic for them.
@@Argoon1981 fake way to make people upgrade their GPUs.
@@Argoon1981 Modern gamedev: "what's retopology?"
@@bjchez Well, retopology takes time and is a pain to do so I get why devs don't want to do that, but they should be aware of and transparent about the consequences of their laziness, which they aren't. I guess they're aware but the transparency definitely isn't there. Far easier to just gaslight us about how our eyes are broken than to actually admit that they're messing up games with poor optimization.
Bruh the floor not being just a flat surface with a texture is actually just hostile.
Imagine if this guy was offered a position to be in charge of optimization for unreal engine, or even in charge of optimization for a new unreal engine version.
Keep up the good work.
You're not echoing superficial ad-phrases; You're actually investing the effort of measuring and making things actually and internally right. That is worth so much! Thanks for caring and making things good and right!
Those "Devs" saying stuff like "Just buy better hardware" are really the worst in my opinion. How many proper computer scientist are there using unreal engine anyways? How many just stumbled into the industry telling others to just accept their visually smeary garbage? Do they need glasses? A wipe for their screen?
I'm a computer scientist who uses Unreal Engine (15 years now). I still develop with a 1080ti so no cheesy DLSS hacks for me !
100%! The *excuse* of _”just throw more hardware at the solution”_ really shows how myopic and ignorant (even if experts) have become. That phrase needs to die in a fire.
There are exceptions of course but companies are SO focused on optimizing dev time that they forgot the original problem usually has multiple optimization solutions on _existing_ hardware.
> Just buy better hardware
Todd Howard moment
@@tehf00n Yes, I think they should develop with lower end or older hardware so mere mortals have a chance of running the game properly.
@@kunka592 I develop on a 1080ti. But unfortunately thats EOL now and if it's not an RTX card then some of the new tech doesn't work properly, if at all. So I skip on the RT/PT for now.
Thank you for these awesome videos! Been having a blast with each one even though I didn't (and still don't know) much about the topic
No way John Ancient-Gameplays
"Small world heh?" - Luis
@@praisetheoak Here I am haha
@@JanPospisilArt His channel is about educating and raising awareness to consumers about real-time renderers. Most people on Earth also are not video game developers. So it's normal to have average people commenting on a video like this!
Guys like this are the people who made Blizzard, Bungie, Infinity ward back in the day.
Sadly, guys like this *aren’t the average dev we have in the gaming industry today.* Plus the corporate and administrative portion of gaming is much larger
The crazy thing about this is "It can run 60fps"
ON what?!. on a 3k super computer that 10% of gamers can even afford?.
Even if everyone can afford that PC, what happens when everyone gets that PC and plays that game? These types will see that and go even further into crazy land and just abuse the now available resources to do even more inefficient stupid crap. As long as that mindset persists, you can have infinite amounts of money to throw at hardware and will still always end up getting a subpar product.
Steam hardware survey show total disvonnect fro devs owning expensive workstations thinking evetyone owns a $6000+ pc... When confronted they just tell you "buy 4090 or fuck off"
Also you can literally buy a 240Hz screen for $150 nowadays and even consoles now finally run some games at 120+ fps, any dev who is proud of 60 fps in 2024 has lost the plot.
@@SaHaRaSquad any dev who relies on gen frames is not a real dev.
Consistent 60+ fps is good enough for 99% of games
I don’t see the point in ridiculous things like 240 fps
“Just used the Transcript that Chat GPT made of his channel and yeah he has no idea what he’s talking about.≈”
The mentality even transfers to the research process not only the vfx development. 🤦♂️
@@aicraglednay The jokes write themselves
Nothing worst than an arrogant fool in this world.
Ikr...does not even realize how cringe and stupid he looks.
Wikipedia is better research than chatGPT. And no, it's still not a valid source.
@@wrongthinker843 I'd say it is valid. Unlike chatgpt a wiki page is normally a condensed list of information with references to actual papers and books listed below from which you can open yourself.
Thank you for not backing down from these bullies. Keep it up!
As a sidenote, i'd be really interested in seeing more technical videos, like your frame breakdowns, explaining the different graphical techniques used. (Maybe breakdowns of CoDMW 2019 or DOOM 2016 especially, since they use mixed rendering systems rather than deferred). Also i'd love some videos where you explain and show us examples of improved rendering techniques modded into Unreal Engine, as a kind of overview of how UE's rendering works and what fundamental changes can be done to it to improve things, i think that'd be fascinating.
But ye, keep it up, cheers!
Thank you so much for the support!
We're just getting started on content!
@ThreatInteractive No problem! Your content is consistently excellent and important, i'm happy to support it.
Honestly, how the hell these people enjoy buying expensive hardware, getting less and less in terms of fps and graphics and pretending everything is okay?
I'm starting to believe that they are not as satisfied with the devs as they pretend to be...
On another note, good job on actually fixing the issue, i'm already feed up of people suggesting band-aid solutions but totally ignoring the elephant in the room
Stockholm syndrome
"mUh rtX 4K xd" people lol
@@GamerBoyTheManly”mUh 4k RtX iN 30 fps aT UE5.5” coming soon 😂
You're young, fearless and willing to do the work - that threatens a lot of established egos in the industry. It would be weird if upsetting the applecart didn't make you enemies. Take it as encouragement that you're on the right path.
You get the most flak when you're over the target.
100% Most of the negative reactions come out of insecurity. They are terrified of being told their standards are incorrect.
@@ScarfKat It is known that the programming market is full of incompetent devs... Makes you wonder how the graphics market is like, specially with failed artists who pick up a bunch of "ez AI" tools to do their work for them, take a screenshot (what's framerate?) and call it a day.
Grifters, all of them. They just need to be uprooted. No self-respecting graphics designer ignores optimization.
They would give him the time of their days if he was wrong too, the way they straight up don't look at the videos after just hearing the things about the video is proof.
The industry is flooded with talentless devs who rely on automated tools, it's why there is such pushback against you spotlighting all of this.
And the arrogance of them and their shills is astounding
its the pattern in every industry - media, food, medicine...
@@tomshepard9050
Someone who shouldn't be getting a cut is getting a massive cut of the profits in the industry.
Weren't the absolute garbage, terribly written games by the alphabet people a dead giveaway?
Oh no but don’t you know how hard game dev is? Our jobs are so hard, stop asking for 60 fps just buy better hardware!
I wanted to say that I'm 38 (probably quite a bit older than you), been developing games for 15+ years now, and you're pretty much right on the money with most of your videos. I also share your views about the abomination of fake frames, temporal effects and temporal AA (for their smearing), and so on. In some cases I like the idea of the technology, like DLSS, but the ghosting makes it a tough sell.
I've been quite outspoken about the shoddy work of others and have often received the same hostile responses, or the nearly cult-like line I hear all the time now in response to literally any criticism I offer, "making games is hard" (as if I'm not a developer myself and don't know what the process is like inside and out, thinking they could handwave my criticisms by complaining about the difficulty - for them - in doing basic things). This extends beyond graphics programming for me, and into lazy VR developers, people making lazy AI, terrible systems optimizations, etc. and deflecting all criticism with "it's hard, you don't get it."
Keep going, man.
Right on. I think gaming and graphics in general has gone down this strange “the engine is better than the hardware so we need to find ways to fake the performance (via frame gen, DLSS etc).” It’s a shame native rendering performance isn’t still the core priority. Because if it was, I’m sure a lot more optimisation and care would be placed into the way the engine works much like how Threat is demonstrating. If I could play Quake III at over 150fps in the 90’s on my Mac at high resolution, why am I playing games 30 years later at frame rates 5 x worse? The engine and fidelity/fx has progressed faster than the hardware and optimisations.
The same have been modding since 2001, never made a full game but it as taught me a ton about game dev and this guy, has the heart in the right place, unfortunately IMO he is fighting a losing battle, modern game dev is so expensive that they will sacrifice image quality anytime, if that means less dev time and less money spent on development and that is what UE5 is trying to give them.
Believe me I was fighting this fight when I was building and selling PCs, there's no point. The marketing is too effective, and consumers only care about these features regardless of whether or not they're good, or even available to use. I gave up, I couldn't sell that garbage for the prices they were expecting us to charge anymore. NVIDIA has won, and it has made gaming worse for it.
Damn that's a strong word to use, but I completely agree that generated frames are abominable.
I dont have much knowledge on how to optimize games. But the moment i saw that(3:02), it made my blood boil. Thats no different from yandere simulator toothbrush vert count.
I don't understand why everyone is brushing this stuff off. If you have eyes, anyone can clearly see how image clarity has degraded since the rise of UE5. Just look at your screen... I really miss the days of crystal clear games...
@@SlyNine What is the point in "progress" when it's making everything look worse? Ray tracing is garbage and most people can't even tell the difference.
@@DosonTheGreat That's a lie
@@DosonTheGreat So lemme get this straight, according to you people, "Image quality has degraded and it's clear as day", but at the same time, you claim that "ray tracing is garbage and most people can't tell the difference"?
Same raytracing artists have been using to render out shots in CAD/CAM apps using stuff like Vray, apparently all of it was something most never noticed. The holy grail of visuals, was a lie.
I agree with Threat Interactive when it comes to performance issues and garbage AA. But saying that raytracing offers nothing is just whole new level of silliness. You've replaced one extreme with another.
@@desmasicI would argue triple A has one disaster after another and they focus on graphics while gamers don't care outside of a super minority.
It's GAMES they are selling. They should play well and be responsive. If graphics were all there is games and anime or cartoons would always loose to movies and every movie would be a blockbuster with its "realistic graphics and high detail realistic rendering of real people" (hope you got the joke).
If it would be about graphics Minecraft wouldn't be one of the best selling games of all time, nor would Nintendo's IPs.
Yes, I find ray tracing brings nothing to the table and styled and optimized games of 2010-2016 were much better. I still have to find a game today where I would leave ray tracing on, or any other gimmick. Ray tracing could be good in 10 years at the pace we are now, any other gimmick only makes the game choppy and worsens the image while faking frames..
How much years pass since industry defeated "cinematic 30 fps" mindset? Looks like we are going back, few more nvidia cards generations and we are going to look at 30 fps upscaled vague blob and influencers telling us that for better graphic in games there is need to be a new console generation.
I'm a 3D and VFX artist working in the film industry and I see this trend as well. I've seen lighting artists complain that their render crashed, upon investigation, it was RAM'ing out a half a terabyte of RAM render node. There is no thought put to optimization, models with every UDIM being 4k, ridiculously hi poly counts. It is frustrating as these fields become more art related, the technical knowledge required lessens to where the artist never knows nor cares what happens in the background.
College probably failed them
I would suggest that the utter disregard for technical limitations is partially due to artists being hired with no relevant experience. Like when game studios hire non-gamers to make design decisions about games, it doesn't make sense. Unless a company is willing to review and guide artists to meet optimization requirements, they must hire artists that at least have a concern for end performance.
to be fair they should not need to try to optimise, all professional coders can tell you it’s the compiler/engines job, extra optimisation should be a bonus
@@oCMSo This is not true, part of an artists job is to understand and work with the confines of the tools they have to make art.
Forgoing consideration of polycount when doing digital modeling is like being an ice sculptor who thinks it’s ok to sculpt inside a volcano
They are working against the tools and environment they are given which shows the marks of an amateur artist
@@oCMSo I'd have to disagree here. You cannot throw whatever you want at an offline render engine and expect it to perform well. Lower render times and even better visuals can be achieved by following simple rules that actually end up being part of the craft. Modelers learn correct edge flow for animation, shader artists learn that not all passes of a material need to be the same resolution, a lighting artist learns to be conservative with how many samples to assign to their lights. It is unfortunately these things that are either not being taught or ignored, as time required to craft these things lessen to maximize profits.
To me games already looked great in 2015. In the past 10 years it feels like we've really inflated technology costs for absolute minimal fidelity gain.
Thank you for making this videos, hope the channel continues to grow
Games have not improved much, we have games from 2018 that look as good as AAA 2024 releases. The difference is you can barely get playable frames in the new games compared to the old and there is no visual benefit
Good evening, my friend! Fancy meeting you here!
well, go play just cause 3, that game needs more anti alisingand more shadows.
@@arkgaharandan5881its a AA budget game at best, probably even B
Minimal fidelity gain? That makes no sense. The graphical improvements have been extreme. I mean, we have gone from needing baked lighting for global illumination to a fully realtime dynamic global illumination solution. This is one of the 3 holy grails of game dev. The other two being Raytracing and Path Tracing. Things we never conceived as being possible in realtime 10 years ago. I literally studied all kinds of GI solutions from AHR (approximate hybrid raytracing) through to VXGI from Nvidia. What we have now, if used properly, is the best option on the market right now. But Lumen requires knowledge and tweaking. It's not an out of the box solution. But people think it is.
I work with unreal devs all day every day and let me tell you most of them are just winging it. They don't study properly. They just want to make quick cash , pump and dump and move on to the next. Most of them don't even do the paperwork first.
From what I heard and saw I think you are the person that could actually fix tarkov optimization.
I love how they say you don't know what you're talking about, yet you go pretty deep into your analyses, even completely going through the calls of a frame. How much deeper are you supposed to go? Debug the shader machine code?
I've been coding for over 30 years. I love your passion and even if you were completely technically wrong in the details, your point is spot on ["games be gettin' shiddy"] and something the whole industry needs to hear.
If TI was an actual funded organization with projects, I'd be tossing my CV in.
That "buzz words" argument was so bad it's like "tell me you never had a dictionary in your hand without telling me directly". Asmongold, as much of troll as he is, was honest and straight up said "a lot of this stuff went over my head" but did not call BS due to lack of very specific knowledge.
I absolutely love the frame call analysis, I don't know anyone else on RUclips who also does it. It teaches you so much about how a game runs.
Was he completely technically wrong though?
@@Diogenerateno, i think the op just meant that even if he didnt get the specifics right or lacked expertise (which is the most common "argument" npcs toss around about him) that the core of his points which he is trying to convey would still be a valid point and a noble cause.
I dont think they were bringing the validity of his technical arguments into question.
Thats how i interpreted the comment anyway.
No, he is a genius. He's completely correct. Even the creator of TAA supports and defends this young man.
The strength of your insult is the weakness of your argument...
True, lots of people dont even know the inverse relationship here should have a 20-40% weakness threshold depending on how complex or basic the topic for it not to be an insult. this threshold seems to vary dramatically among "certain" people. 🤣
BogaGod
Suggestion for future videos : When you show things on your machine and use your machine for testing and measuring performance improvements, it would be good to establish from the beginning the specs of your machine. Yes, you said "as we defined in our last video", but that would require the viewer to stop the video, look up the video you mentioned (you didn't link it on screen nor in the description, so I'd have to look up your video list and compare upload dates to find out which video you're talking about) and find the spot in the video that is relevant, which is, contrary to what your channel claims to be about, not very consumer friendly. Just have a slide for 5 seconds that lists what CPU, GPU, how much RAM and other relevant stuff that you're using. You can re-use that slide then for other future videos.
I'll update the pinned comment soon. I use the same hardware for every video(analyses ones I usually state the Desktop 3060 usage) but it's a good idea for newcomers.
@@ThreatInteractive Thanks, @kyoai actually make a good point on adding 5 seconds of pc/laptop specs.
@@ThreatInteractive Yeah that would be great. I only watch the occasional video that comes up on my home page, so knowing the hardware would help a lot to establish some context for the performance numbers you put on screen.
@@ThreatInteractive Thank you! Keep up the good work, your videos are very interesting.
Hopefully this insightful knowledge comes to more devs and some change can be made. Thank you for your hard work!
People that say it can't be done should not interfere with people doing it.
Exactly!!!
So basically any new UE graphics feature is just a cure for the poison they themselves artificially create.
These feature are badly used tools for now. Poison is lazyness
writing these is like building a brick wall
first day someone comes in and puts the first layers down the next day someone else comes and does the same third day another person comes in and places the bricks but makes a mistake and doesnt do it nicely so fourth day someone else comes and chips a brick so he can fix the other guys thing so it can work but the balance is broken so now every day from now everyone puts a hack in the code so it works without considering if its good or not and when some time passes lets say like a year its a mess that no one can fix so no one bothers
Or is poison made because the "cure" exist
The problem is that most modern graphics effects, are very noisy by default and they don't know how to solve that, besides using TAA and introduce blurriness, without that those effects would be impractical, so they know this guy is right but nonetheless, graphic developers will fight this "anti TAA" sentiment with all their force, because is a crutch they require and that means even insulting TI even when he is right.
But he also needs to stop falling into the trap and ignore the insults, even if I know it can be hard sometimes.
Them turning to insults just means that they don't have any valid arguments to support their side.
Keep up the good work, I may not understand every technical detail you cover on your channel, but I've learned a lot about Unreal ever since I subscribed.
Very true
Thank you for finally answering my gut feeling about games nowadays not being optimized properly (especially since MH wilds spec was announced). I hope one day you can make a rival game engine that competes with Unreal Engine, not just modified Unreal Engine
Oh god no wonder that scene's unoptimized, that lighting range's literally too wide and mesh on the floor was literally unnecessary
The mesh on the floor killed me. I literally gasped
100% intentional to show how much "better" the new stuff is...
If things headed this way, in the future, we can have one mesh for each atom rendered.
@@luluskuy you could do that now technically. :D
there's not even any extrusion, it's just flat all around and yet there are so many vertices, absolutely absurd
Thanks for the hard work! Your videos are quite enlightening about modern game optimization issues.
Thank you so much for the support!
Keep fighting the good fight
You're getting pushback because of something I've been saying for years. It's not just greedy publishers and projects increasing in scale that is the issue today, it's young inexperienced developers that have been educated with what I for simplicity sake called an "Unreal Engine-mindset". Because of the raw power available in both software and hardware developers don't have to get creative like before either. Since you mentioned MGS V in another video I think the first MGS on PS1 is a great example of a game pushing way beyond the perceived graphical boundaries of the console.
I don't know shit about game development, but just as a consumer it's clear to see what's going on.
I really enjoy your videos! They factually prove something that I felt but couldn't explain or put into professional terms.
A million polygon anything placed into a world is an absolute no-no, whoever thinks it's OK deserves a slap on a face.
I can already hear them screaming "But it's so much easier to just drag 3D scans in and turn on Nanite, instant workflow!"
Yes, it is. It definitely is quicker and easier. But it has drawbacks, especially since it's still new-ish tech. I don't doubt that it'll get better over time but we're not quite there yet to just give this tool to anyone and expect great things, it's a tool which requires a lot of care and fine-tuning to use it properly. It's not terrible by any means, but it must be handled with care. But with this new generation of game devs who learn game development using RUclips tutorials we can't expect that they put this much effort into it. And don't get me wrong, learning with YT is perfectly fine, but there's a point in time when learning is done by practice, gathering experience, doing your own R&D, and by learning from other veterans, not just from tutorials. But this is the world we live in.
Coming from a professional EAI architect background, selft-taught CGI artist, and now on-going self-taught game dev I see this in every area of expertise.
Actually a million poly isn't that bad. I was using a 2million poly cathederal model about 10 years ago to test UE4's ability to handle increased poly counts over UE3. It worked fine. Had my target fps and everything. See polycounts are not really an issue in Unreal Engine. Clean geometry matters obviously, and optimisations aside (when 2mil poly could be 200k with normal/bump/etc) it's mostly drawcalls that hurt (or since UE5, also bad use of Lumen/Nanite).
@@danielschmid8530Nanite and Lumen specially with the ever growing prominence of Unreal Engine 5 are used as crutches and optimization goes out of the window entirely for that to be handled by resolution upscalers and frame generation.
The problem is specially prominent with Bloober Team's Silent Hill 2 (2024 Remake) where ray traced solutions are used innecesarily for what is essentially for the most part, static environments. Fog isn't even used to actually lower the draw distance and make the game less taxxing on hardware (which was the point of it's existence in the original release for the PlayStation, a 5th generation console), and there is no solutions for LoDs, if any at all. Sensible and rational decision making seems to be dead nowadays in the AAA industry because a lack of actually competent educated developers combined with an overreliance on resolution upscalers, frame generation technology and ray tracing implemented ad-naseaum even when there are less expensive solutions (I am of the position that ray tracing needs to actually be justified in it's usage given it's huge performance impact even with modern hardware) that can achieve acceptable results either way.
It's sad what has been happening lately, but I'm not surprised if I'm fully honest.
A million-polygon in a single draw call is better than a one-polygon in a million draw calls.
@@tehf00n A two million poly model, means nothing on its own! A game is made of more than polycounts, there's code/script logic, AI, sound, shader computation, particle effects, physics, etc, etc, just because a 2million poly model, worked fine on a test scene that doesn't mean, a real game would be the same. Then there's the fact that the player hardware also has a huge influence, unless you only want to make games for the latest and greatest hardware, then you need to think about performance targets.
The ageism from the other developers towards TI is completely ridiculous. I was young once too, and questioned a lot of things, and was put down for it. Now as someone older -- I LOVE it when younger people see things I don't see and take the effort to point them out. You have more wisdom when you're older but you also take more things for granted which means you sometimes miss the fundamentals.
Beautiful comment.
Amen brother.
Based
It's not about age, it's about a combination of being wrong (cherry-picking a narrative so it works for the gamer crowd, while the industry pros laugh at half of it) and being extremely aggressive about it.
If someone enters a room by breaking the door, only fair they get the boot treatment.
And yeah, spreading misinformation for the personal gain. Massive Yikes.
@@mercai As a(n older) gamer, I disagree. I discovered TAA reduced quality on my own playing games long before I found this channel. I'd also argue OP is passionate not aggressive, but I know people have different tolerances for that. However, there was aggression when he got banned for questioning TAA.
So wait, the admin of the Unreal Source discord tried to say "TI insists on testing with prehistoric hardware..." which he's referencing 9th gen consoles consisting of the same generational hardware as the RTX 3000 series, but proceeds to say the performance loss is way smaller on RTX 20xx series.
So, is RTX 20xx better than RTX 30xx and 40xx? And how is RTX 40xx worse that 9th gen consoles hardware? I'm so fkn confused, someone make it make sense please my brain hurts.
Also, buying Unreal Source admin spot $50 like that guy.
I am confused as well, these people in the screenshots arent real are they?
He said greater than RTX 20xx series so he didn't watch TI's video and thinks Ti runs benchmarks on a 2060 or something. He's probably just out of touch because he has a top of line Nvidia GPU and hasn't experienced low-end FPS if he plays any games at all.
Businessmen and artists just do not mix. One is a fake gamer / money-maker, the other is passionate about his work.
@@chisel4164 Same problem we see in web design, built on new hardware and gigabit connections. The difference is that some websites will run badly on any hardware you throw at it, because some web developers also have no standards on top.
I legit do not understand what the F those comments are, just mentally ill troglodytes shitting on someone just because they can. Sad, sad creatures. No wonder they banned him on reddit lmao.
Good job, kid. I would not be surprised if much pushback can be linked to issues with pride and jealously. Pride is especially good at hardening the hearts of hearers. Respond in humility whenever possible, it can be a good way to heap hot coals on the consciences of the cantankerous. And keep at it!
Thank you for support! We appreciate it so much!
the point about age and microphone quality is exactly when you know that you have won. Great job, keep it up!
FR!!!!
Thank god truth depends on the type of chair used! /s Oh wait, it doesn’t.
De Nile is not just a river in Egypt. 😂
The ad hominem attacks let everyone know that these people would rather sweep the TAA problems under the rug.
25 years ago people would've respected him even more if he was younger than them yet this knowledgeable. Then the internet was swarmed by the public.
I saw something in particular that caught my attention: "we as players accept upscalers now".
Yes, having the OPTION to upscale a game when you don't have high end hardware or want a few more FPS is great, but that doesn't mean it is REQUIRED to make the game look good or at least run stable, those are two different things.
I have played older games from time to time on very weak/entry level hardware, and games like Battlefield 3/4 look and play really good while looking more crips and in some cases even better than modern games on current hardware.
DLSS and FSR are great as an OPTION for a boost on weaker hardware not a NECESSITY for everyone to have a pleasant experience.
Yeah native/dlaa all day. Even dlss ultra quality introduces artifacting
I absolutely understand why devs are against your points; that means they have to work smarter and harder for the same salary
It basically makes them look lazy and incompetent, so it's almost a natural reaction.
It's not professional devs lol. Anyone who put themselves through a college computer engineering course would be passionate enough to optimize anything, it's the most fun part of all this! And you cant get through that kind of college course without that passion (trust me i know lmao.) It's probably amateur hobbyist devs that think they know better.
@@SydGhoshhate to break it to you but most people graduating with cs degrees are awful programmers