Contrary to what people believe, it doesn't have to cut on the back side. My friend is a ASE master engine machinist. I asked him if it's trammed perfect it will touch on the back side. He said it's off a little, and won't hurt nothing!
I usually have my mill trammed as perfect as I can get, but if head is longer than x-travel allows to clean off back cut ,I will tip in on x-axis 0.001" - 0.0015" so I can surface up to 30" heads. I don't want to un-tram mill unless I have to. Most dedicated head and block mills are tipped as they are only doing head and block resurfacing. If the cutter is dipped 0.001" over 9" cutter like mine it will leave approx. 0.0004" concave down center of a 6" wide head, but that is within spec. Higher combustion pressure engines (Turbo or Blown) prefer no dip and/ or use fire rings. Your friend is correct and thanks for your reply.
I have been thinking out changing over to button style tool holder and inserts. But just like anything else on the WANT LIST - the list is thicher than my wallet. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
In my machine shop years ago I cut a couple heads for engines and this is pretty much the way I would set it up but rather than fly cut I would setup the head for surface grinding. Also to cut down on vibration on the inside of the head I would, pack the inside of the head with small lead shot packets. Nice job here. I also subscribed to this channel.
Thanks. Lead shot is hard to get in Canada (apparently it kills birds), I have used bbs in the past to dampen vibrations in motor cycle handle bars and foot pegs, but haven't tried that while machining. I would be scared of them getting loose and destroying parts. How did you keep packets in place? I have used surface grinder to resurface also but don't have one yet in my shop.
I remember cutting a cylinder head on a 197cc Villiers 7e engine. Fist I cut 1/16 inch off with a hand held hacksaw, then a few passes with a Surform File, then some finer files. Finally finished it off with Wet and Dry paper. It gave about 12:1 Compression Ratio, just what was needed for Methanol Fuel... That was many years ago..
The main thing is it worked. I would just be worried about piston to valve clearance cutting off that much, but you did see magic word "Methanol" so you knew that. Didn't you?
@@acmemachining The Villiers engines are two strokes, so no valve problems. I also gouged the exhaust port and slightly altered the inlet timing by taking some metal from the piston skirt... It made a very competitive motorcycle.
I like it! I think you did a great job. I’m just a beginner myself. I’ve got a couple of machines from Grizzly. I would’ve loved to have some seasoned ones but what I got is great and I don’t have any problems with them with the exemption of some good tooling, but that’s a funding problem. You have given me some great ideas, of which I’m sure going to use! Thanks for the training. RAM
Ron I am so glad I could help, and glad you enjoyed the video. I wish I had RUclips when I was starting. Have machines available and things that need fixing so it was school of hard knocks. You should be fine with your Grizzly machines. I am too scared to buy older machines because I would end up with something worn out that I don't know how to use. At least with newer stuff I can only blame ME. As for tooling check out pawnshops or your local buy and sell. Thanks and keep on having fun.
Amateur question: when you set the block up on the table, it seems to me that you are automatically accepting the undersurface (which touches the table) as "true and correct" and measuring the deck surface against that. Is there a potential for being mistaken in that assumption, and how would you detect that and compensate for it?
Good question. I measured the 4 corners with vernier caliper first, and check top surface with straight edge to confirm it does not require shimming against the table. Never assume. The old saying measure twice cut once. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed. Measuring first also confirms how much was removed. I like to take first measurements with customer present.
Some fly cutter manufactures suggest you tilt the head by 0.002" so cutter doesn't touch on the back of the cutter. I prefer perfectly trammed head and cut from one side to the other. I have moved the y-axis so I start on a corner, then traverse on the x-axis once I reach centerline. I can use y-axis again the walk off other end of the head if required.
Modern Tools is a Canadian Import of machines from Taiwan. Model number 3VM. I have seen same machine from Jet, KBC Tools and Saber. Thanks for watching and Subscribing.
I’m lookin to start resurfacing heads in my mill. I have been looking at different indexable face end mills. What size would you recommend for most heads? I was leaning towards 10” but didn’t know if I could get away with smaller diameter.
Start with an old headgasket and measure it for width. Also check X-axis travel on your mill because cutter has to be subtracted from X-axis. This is the biggest limit. I do mostly motorcycle heads. Also my mill has 36" X-axis travel but that is with power feed that shortens travel to 29" because power feed will hit the knee. My cutter is 8-14" or 9-1/2. So 29 minus 8-1/4 lets me do almost 21" head. I will sit head on an angle so I can walk the Y-axis in and old for slightly longer heads. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
I don't expect they would be available off the shelf. You could use extra parts of a multi-lyer gasket.Of course money can get you anything. Resurfacing head will raise compression slightly and cam timing may have to be adjusted. but probably now required. Most manufacturers are responsible for emissions so re-surfacing may not be recommended. Of course thet=y want you to buy a new car rather that keep it running. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribe.
Have you checked the tram on the head to make sure it's all good you never talked how the head is square with table. That would be my first comment then every thing else
I noticed that also, May be vibration due to the caused glass scale to mis read. I locked the knee on next pass and it did change. I don't think knee could vibrate up. I will be watch for any similar reading while using mill. 1st mill with DRO so I will have to watch for that. Thanks for you keen eye. I wonder if drain hose for flood coolant might be rubbing on Z Scale?
On my machine, the knee will come up when the x feed is engaged (knee not locked) according to the dro. I start the feed well off the part to let it settle in and start the power feed with the dial on zero and then dial up during travel to minimize how hard the power feed dog engages.
OLÁ PARABENS . É A 1a VEZ QUE VEJO NA INTERNET A CORRETA UTILISAÇÃO DA PLAINA E COM O CRUZAMENTO ADEQUADO. ABRAÇOS Roberto Udo Krapf (Analista de Motores)
Now you just cleaned of both the head and the machining table the head sits on while being machined. Yet right after cleaning, you just set a few tools on it from another location. Qouldnt it have been possible that there could have been something on this things that transfered to your table that you had just cleaned off? Am I wrong? Does it not matter? Or was that kinda silly like it seems? I mean no disrespect, I am just curious if that's something I should not be doing?
Yes there could have been something transferred, but I do wipe tools off regularly. More worried about any burrs that may be on work piece or table, but I do have to be aware of the possibility. Thanks for watching and commenting. Have a Good Day!
Top of head has the cam shaft journals and the cam shafts didn't show any bad wear patterns or have any resistance in spinning without valves in head. If you were to cut top of head you would have to line bore cam shaft bores as they would be too small after cutting top of head. Cutting head gasket side is simple. you could also cc chambers after valve job is complete if you wanted perfection.
just got my head done at a local shop, was curious do they take out all the valve before they resurface it or do they leave it on ... also do u guys pressure wash the head first and clean it before resurfacing it.. my mechanic told me they pressure test the valve before resurface it ..and the mechanic told me it cost ... $700 for the head resurfacing ...? just wanted to see where i'm at money cost 😊
I refuse to cut a dirty head. Some deposits are very hard and can come loose and ruin the job if not the head. Some valves sit proud of gasket surface and must be removed before cutting. After cutting head needs to be clean again. After cleaning valve guides need lube so valves come out at some point. Vacumm testing is performed on intake and exhaust chambers. also pressure testing for cracks in cooling system can be done. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
I made that tool using spare stuff I had around the shop, Abor fits a cheap face mill that came with my old mill and cutter is right sided lathe bit that came in a set of seven different ones. I am sorry but I don't have enough spares to make another. I got the idea from a Pinnacle Fly Cutterr I had seen but I don't have the money they want for it. It is a nice project to make one, you should try it for yourself. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Customer wants - Customer gets. That or they go elsewhere and good luck getting them back. Thanks for watching & commenting .Hope you understand and subscribe.
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Contrary to what people believe, it doesn't have to cut on the back side. My friend is a ASE master engine machinist. I asked him if it's trammed perfect it will touch on the back side. He said it's off a little, and won't hurt nothing!
I usually have my mill trammed as perfect as I can get, but if head is longer than x-travel allows to clean off back cut ,I will tip in on x-axis 0.001" - 0.0015" so I can surface up to 30" heads. I don't want to un-tram mill unless I have to. Most dedicated head and block mills are tipped as they are only doing head and block resurfacing. If the cutter is dipped 0.001" over 9" cutter like mine it will leave approx. 0.0004" concave down center of a 6" wide head, but that is within spec. Higher combustion pressure engines (Turbo or Blown) prefer no dip and/ or use fire rings. Your friend is correct and thanks for your reply.
@@acmemachining Great video as well!
Just a tip. Get yourself a PCD button and you will speed that job up to 1 cut ,and drastically improve your surface finish.
I have been thinking out changing over to button style tool holder and inserts. But just like anything else on the WANT LIST - the list is thicher than my wallet. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
In my machine shop years ago I cut a couple heads for engines and this is pretty much the way I would set it up but rather than fly cut I would setup the head for surface grinding. Also to cut down on vibration on the inside of the head I would, pack the inside of the head with small lead shot packets. Nice job here. I also subscribed to this channel.
Thanks. Lead shot is hard to get in Canada (apparently it kills birds), I have used bbs in the past to dampen vibrations in motor cycle handle bars and foot pegs, but haven't tried that while machining. I would be scared of them getting loose and destroying parts. How did you keep packets in place? I have used surface grinder to resurface also but don't have one yet in my shop.
Very nice work. I like your milling machine. Nice fly cutter
Thank you very much! Fly cutter build was a nice project, hardest part was balancing.
I remember cutting a cylinder head on a 197cc Villiers 7e engine. Fist I cut 1/16 inch off with a hand held hacksaw, then a few passes with a Surform File, then some finer files. Finally finished it off with Wet and Dry paper. It gave about 12:1 Compression Ratio, just what was needed for Methanol Fuel... That was many years ago..
The main thing is it worked. I would just be worried about piston to valve clearance cutting off that much, but you did see magic word "Methanol" so you knew that. Didn't you?
@@acmemachining The Villiers engines are two strokes, so no valve problems. I also gouged the exhaust port and slightly altered the inlet timing by taking some metal from the piston skirt... It made a very competitive motorcycle.
Acme, Alberta. That is out in the prairies for sure. Watching from Canmore.
Hey another Albertan
I like it! I think you did a great job. I’m just a beginner myself. I’ve got a couple of machines from Grizzly. I would’ve loved to have some seasoned ones but what I got is great and I don’t have any problems with them with the exemption of some good tooling, but that’s a funding problem. You have given me some great ideas, of which I’m sure going to use! Thanks for the training. RAM
Ron I am so glad I could help, and glad you enjoyed the video. I wish I had RUclips when I was starting. Have machines available and things that need fixing so it was school of hard knocks. You should be fine with your Grizzly machines. I am too scared to buy older machines because I would end up with something worn out that I don't know how to use. At least with newer stuff I can only blame ME. As for tooling check out pawnshops or your local buy and sell. Thanks and keep on having fun.
Nice work.
Thanks for sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thank you too
nice job bud , wayne
Thanks. Nice to hear from you again.
Amateur question: when you set the block up on the table, it seems to me that you are automatically accepting the undersurface (which touches the table) as "true and correct" and measuring the deck surface against that. Is there a potential for being mistaken in that assumption, and how would you detect that and compensate for it?
Good question. I measured the 4 corners with vernier caliper first, and check top surface with straight edge to confirm it does not require shimming against the table. Never assume. The old saying measure twice cut once. Thanks for watching & commenting. Hope you subscribed. Measuring first also confirms how much was removed. I like to take first measurements with customer present.
Could you explain how you tilt a head that is too long for your machine, and sneak up on it.? You mentioned shims and Y axis.
Some fly cutter manufactures suggest you tilt the head by 0.002" so cutter doesn't touch on the back of the cutter. I prefer perfectly trammed head and cut from one side to the other. I have moved the y-axis so I start on a corner, then traverse on the x-axis once I reach centerline. I can use y-axis again the walk off other end of the head if required.
i enjoyed your video. what brand of milling machine is that?
Modern Tools is a Canadian Import of machines from Taiwan. Model number 3VM. I have seen same machine from Jet, KBC Tools and Saber. Thanks for watching and Subscribing.
I’m lookin to start resurfacing heads in my mill. I have been looking at different indexable face end mills. What size would you recommend for most heads? I was leaning towards 10” but didn’t know if I could get away with smaller diameter.
Start with an old headgasket and measure it for width. Also check X-axis travel on your mill because cutter has to be subtracted from X-axis. This is the biggest limit. I do mostly motorcycle heads. Also my mill has 36" X-axis travel but that is with power feed that shortens travel to 29" because power feed will hit the knee. My cutter is 8-14" or 9-1/2. So 29 minus 8-1/4 lets me do almost 21" head. I will sit head on an angle so I can walk the Y-axis in and old for slightly longer heads. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
Do head gaskets come in different thickness to compensate for the material you removed?
I don't expect they would be available off the shelf. You could use extra parts of a multi-lyer gasket.Of course money can get you anything. Resurfacing head will raise compression slightly and cam timing may have to be adjusted. but probably now required. Most manufacturers are responsible for emissions so re-surfacing may not be recommended. Of course thet=y want you to buy a new car rather that keep it running. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribe.
Have you checked the tram on the head to make sure it's all good you never talked how the head is square with table. That would be my first comment then every thing else
Head tram is always checked, cutter has a slot for dial indicator built into it. Thanks for watching and commenting sorry I didn't show that.
Hi there, thanks for the vid. I noted the DIR moved from 5.1 to 7.6 on the Z axis during the 2nd pass. Why was that?
I noticed that also, May be vibration due to the caused glass scale to mis read. I locked the knee on next pass and it did change. I don't think knee could vibrate up. I will be watch for any similar reading while using mill. 1st mill with DRO so I will have to watch for that. Thanks for you keen eye. I wonder if drain hose for flood coolant might be rubbing on Z Scale?
On my machine, the knee will come up when the x feed is engaged (knee not locked) according to the dro. I start the feed well off the part to let it settle in and start the power feed with the dial on zero and then dial up during travel to minimize how hard the power feed dog engages.
I've only had this mill for just over 2 months and have to learn all the quirks and how to over come them.
good eye, I was wondering the same
Great job I really need a cylinder head skimming machine. Please assist me guys
Thanks for watching and commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
OLÁ PARABENS . É A 1a VEZ QUE VEJO NA INTERNET A CORRETA UTILISAÇÃO DA PLAINA E COM O CRUZAMENTO ADEQUADO. ABRAÇOS Roberto Udo Krapf (Analista de Motores)
Thanks for watching
are you using a precision ground stone or just a norton bench stone out of the box?
Just an out of the box stone. I have two of them and lap them together but I don't have a set of precision ground stones yet.
What kinda machine is this ?
Bridgeport clone imported to Canada by Modern Tool. Thanks for watching
Now you just cleaned of both the head and the machining table the head sits on while being machined. Yet right after cleaning, you just set a few tools on it from another location. Qouldnt it have been possible that there could have been something on this things that transfered to your table that you had just cleaned off? Am I wrong? Does it not matter? Or was that kinda silly like it seems?
I mean no disrespect, I am just curious if that's something I should not be doing?
Yes there could have been something transferred, but I do wipe tools off regularly. More worried about any burrs that may be on work piece or table, but I do have to be aware of the possibility. Thanks for watching and commenting. Have a Good Day!
Looks nice
Thanks for watching & commenting. Glad you enjoy it, hope you subscribed.
nice mill.
Thanks
How did you get the 00001 out?? Shims.
Laid flat on mill table, fly cutting made it parallel. Is that the 0.001 out you where asking about?
@@acmemachining yep,, great video.
Great Job! Ed Hicks
Thanks!
How do you know which surface is off?
Top of head has the cam shaft journals and the cam shafts didn't show any bad wear patterns or have any resistance in spinning without valves in head. If you were to cut top of head you would have to line bore cam shaft bores as they would be too small after cutting top of head. Cutting head gasket side is simple. you could also cc chambers after valve job is complete if you wanted perfection.
@@acmemachining you're absolutely right. Very good explanation
just got my head done at a local shop, was curious do they take out all the valve before they resurface it or do they leave it on ... also do u guys pressure wash the head first and clean it before resurfacing it.. my mechanic told me they pressure test the valve before resurface it ..and the mechanic told me it cost ... $700 for the head resurfacing ...? just wanted to see where i'm at money cost 😊
I refuse to cut a dirty head. Some deposits are very hard and can come loose and ruin the job if not the head. Some valves sit proud of gasket surface and must be removed before cutting. After cutting head needs to be clean again. After cleaning valve guides need lube so valves come out at some point. Vacumm testing is performed on intake and exhaust chambers. also pressure testing for cracks in cooling system can be done. Thanks for watching and commenting, hope you subscribed.
@@acmemachining
thanks for the info, 👍
Great video! Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Hey!!! Love the shop made tool👍 can you make me one☺️
I made that tool using spare stuff I had around the shop, Abor fits a cheap face mill that came with my old mill and cutter is right sided lathe bit that came in a set of seven different ones. I am sorry but I don't have enough spares to make another. I got the idea from a Pinnacle Fly Cutterr I had seen but I don't have the money they want for it. It is a nice project to make one, you should try it for yourself. Thanks for watching and commenting. Hope you subscribed.
002” out???? That’s it??? I don’t see that being a problem, not worth the time to set it up and mill … 005” or more out yes ,
Customer wants - Customer gets. That or they go elsewhere and good luck getting them back. Thanks for watching & commenting .Hope you understand and subscribe.
Wrong machine for the job!
I have to use what I have available. I don't have the space or the money for everything, but somehow I make due. Thanks
No, just a different one.
whats the 'right' machine andre?