Vintage SG modify and set up
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 май 2021
- Vintage SG modify and set up
Another interesting job - this video shows me setting up Simon’s awesome Vintage SG… the heaviest SG I’ve ever held. 10.5lb of SG… and it has a great feel and tone about it too. The Vibrola tremolo system looks the business… BUT… it doesn’t work. And the reason it doesn’t work is that it cannot work on this design of guitar. The spring curve / fixing points for the strings are simply too high for where we need the strings to sit over the bridge to get a low action. If Vintage had really thought about it properly they would have seen that it was an impossible pairing of these two components. Could it have worked? Only by raising the whole fingerboard higher out of the body and lifting the bridge higher with it… and that would look and feel a fair bit different. So the decision was made to lost the tremolo function but keep the ashtray shape just for the style. In the end, it was a good choice. The guitar now plays great, stays in tune with the adjustable nut and looks suitably vintage with the remnants of the Vibrola-style tremolo. 
Хобби
I managed to work around it and get mine working. Firstly, Gibson used a narrower ABR-1 bridge, those were the ones that had a nasty habit of collapsing in the middle. The use of M8 X 1.0mm on import means the the head size is bigger than having 2 little thumb wheels on threaded rod, which makes a bigger bridge a necessity. The fact the bridge is narrower on the Gibsons increased the break angle. So I managed in two ways one being a bit better than the other. Firstly I put a wee sticky foam pad on the underside of the vibrola and that chocked it up enough to get sort of shimmers, the next stage was machining (although they are available, but I'm an engineer) some conversion studs to make it into a US bridge mount and using the narrower bridge, which opened it right up, to more range. Machining my own gave me the ability to hit bottom, fixing the air gap and solidly mounting the studs against wood as often they are drilled too deep. Bearing in mind that's me being a bit pedantic, and the thumb wheels allow all the adjustment, so bottoming out makes sense.
A wee note though and why I would go to a Bigsby over a Maestro, is actually nothing to do with break angles, but everything to do with string breakage. The fix is simple solder the winds near the ball to reinforce them, but frankly a Bigsby is just better and with a slightly longer spring gives a far wider range.
I'm in the process of changing out a roller bridge, on my SG with a vibrola,I'm going with the original abr type small post bridge, if you round over every place your strings sit, like making sure your nut slots are pointing towards the actual post on the tuners, round over every 90% degree angle that can break your string while using the vibrola, be sure to do the same to the saddles, any sharp edge can break your string, a lot of times they break back in the slots for the ball end, lightly sand any sharp edges, and be sure to use some sort of lube on both nut and saddles,most people change to a roller bridge, but I want mine to look completely original, and the regular tuneomatic will work just fine if the strings don't bind anywhere.
Perhaps you should consider a Stetsbar. It appears that it's the neck angle that might be causing the problem. Not enough neck angle maybe.
When i had my first astra zeneca that evening i couldnt get warm in bed, fully clothed thercentral heating on.
Seconed jab i didn't get that just felt a bit fluish for a couple of days.
Just had my first vaccination, Sinovac. Only minor cold or flu like reaction but arm aches for some days now. I think the lack of significant reaction might indicate a reduced immune response. Good to see 3D printed nut base. Also your video mixing is significantly improved the viewing experience.
I have the Gibson version of that guitar. The Maestro vibrola unit is designed to be pushed, not pulled. They’re all kind of flimsy but if you keep the nut lubricated and cut nicely and don’t dive bomb on it it stays in tune. I believe the earlier sideways unit that came on the first SGs is even worse.
Also I believe that Tune-o-matic bridge unit on it is too wide; the original was a thinner unit that didn’t hit the strings.
Great call on the roller bridge, which I have retrofitted on my two Bigsby equipped guitars. That and a nicely set up nut makes them stay in tune.
Except that it's by default too tall for this neck angle combined with the action that my customer wanted i.e. left no break angle for some of the strings. Apart from that, I agree with you ref. the nut :)
exactly as i was told in 1971 when buying a new sg standard with this thingy. push only not pull and no dive bombing
Question, should I buy this or just buy that hard tail and put a deusenberg les trem II on it? Thoughts? Anyone whom has tried a duesenberg vs the maestro
I bought a Chibson SG that has that old trem/bar like Simons, and is a pain in the arse. I'd love to mod it like you did here, keeping just that trem plate, (is it the same one), and installing a tailpiece. Looks great!
Thanks sbrave. It did look kind of cool afterwards. But it annoys me that the basic geometry is... wrong i.e. doesn't allow the thing to be used properly with a low action.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars I bet my Chibson will have the same issue as yours, since it will have low action. I'll try it after I get a setup done, but if it's no good, I'm going to do what you did with the trem plate etc. Thanks!
I'm wondering if anyone has ever tried bending the "fold over" part where the arm sits... in order to get a lower arm height? Seems many of these stick way up in the air. Would that work, even though the spring part won't seem to take new shape? thanks!
I was given full permission to try to bend / flatten this piece or, if I couldn't, to remove it. I had no success at all trying to bend it (much to powerful a spring) so I removed it.
The first thing that came to my mind was to cut shallow sloped relief grooves below the strings.
I fitted one on my 2005 SG standard. Even with 10’s installed the it was pulling forward and arm hits the body. Any insight?? I
Hi Lewis... it's difficult to understand what you mean. That's where a video would help. You're welcome to upload a vid or send to 'samdeeks@gmail.com' and I'll see if I can make sense of it.
Who the blankety-blank thought that snot green went well with deep red? I spent many a happy Friday afternoon changing them for cream, clear, or chrome sets when I did Friday pm in a local music shop.
It looks so much better with the chrome ones you've put on
Yes snot green... 'vintage'... though normally you'd be worried about piling on more metal at THAT end of an SG... but not on this baby. You could have a 12-string headstock up there and the centre of gravity would STILL be in your stomach with this one.
Pete Townshend removed the short maestro trem from his SG specials for a good reason.
I thought Trev Wilkinson would have known better or maybe he wasn't consulted on this decision.
I've just traded me epiphone 56 Les Paul for the 3 pickup model VS63, it has an incredible action I had to raise it up a tiny bit it was that low .
I used to have the epiphone version and this is better in every way.
Tried half a dozen guitars in the shop and the VS6 won hands down.
I just had a look online for another VS6V to see whether the break angle was as low as it was on THIS guitar
images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--M-ag3iPt--/f_auto,t_supersize/v1690019316/pcqauidtscjvsf91ox2k.jpg
and it certainly looks it. The unit just wasn't suited to that guitar and a low action... any further down with the bridge and there would be no break angle.
The VS63 looks very nice btw.
what was the measurement for the posts
It's a tricky situation.. So... the bridge post bushings are 11.5mm at the bottom half (no lines) and 12mm at the top (where it's lined/grooved - can't think of the word!). The trouble is that finding an 11.5mm brad-point drill bit is REALLY hard at least in the UK. So for this, and other guitars, I've always had to drill 11mm hole and carefully widen slightly using the smallest Dremel sanding drum. It's far from ideal because it's never a smooth widening but you learn to judge it right so that the bridge bushings can be whacked in with a mallet nicely. I've just located (finally) a couple of 11.5mm brad-point bits... a single one costs £25 or there's one in a set of 24 bits costing £50... kind of pricey! But I will soon be buying one or the other (probably the set because I can't justify spending £25 on a single brad point drill bit!). So your holes want to be exactly 11.5. The other 0.5mm (difference between your hole and the wider upper part of the bushing) will be whacked in to fit tightly under pressure without glue. That's the idea.
Why would you exclude footage of the stopbar holes drilling? Arguably the most-critical step in this whole repair.
So long ago I can't remember - but occasionally when I find something ultra-challenging or risky I do it off-camera simply because I don't need the added stress... It might have been that.
I bought a Maestro clone on eBay (long tail) to put on my lefty SG 60's Tribute, but the shop here in Nashville just said the neck angle is not right for it. The bridge is set for good low action... and the bridge is too low like that to have proper downward pressure on the top of the Maestro. Can't seem to find info on how high the bridge would need to be for it to work (angle of the neck is not easy to measure)... so I can find my next SG and make it happen. The only Gibson lefties with the vibrolas are out of my price range. Any idea of what I could look for? I measured my 3 SGs and none seem like the bridge is high enough. I think actually measuring where the strings enter the tailpiece... and then comparing that to the height of the front of the Maestro would give me the figures I need???? Thanks
A workable vibrato system (very simple and elegant) for an SG or a LP is the Duesenberg 'Les Trem' system. Very different aesthetic to the Vibrolas or Bigsbys... but much cheaper and rewardingly simple to fit and use. Google it and see if it suits what you're looking for.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars thanks. I already installed that first and hated it. I have another identical SG tribute and when I compared the tone and playing the Duesenberg trim made the SG all mushy.
@@musicproductionvideos5019 Interesting to hear. It's difficult to adequately or objectively describe subject experiences such as 'mushy' so another person knows what you mean (unfortunately). I quite liked it personally...although IIRC I sold the guitar that I put the Duesenberg on to someone.
The problem is the bridge not the trem.,that tremblo is designed to be used with a abr1 with nylon saddles not a Nashville Bridge
You are right that the bridges are different but this really has little or nothing to do with the bridges. You are also right that it's not the fault of the vibrato.
The bottom line is that the neck / body join angle dictates how high the bridge saddle ends up having to be off the guitar top. A high angle (say 4º) means the strings end up higher over the body at the bridge end. To bring the bridge up is a combination of bridge type and adjustment height i.e. how far up the bridge posts the bridge stands.
Because the SG has a flat, un-sculpted body (unlike the Les Paul) the neck / body angle tends to be less to ensure the strings meet the saddles of whatever bridge without having to be stood a mile high. It's this smaller neck/body join angle that dooms the functionality of this particular vibrato - in that there's no bridge you can squeeze under there to get the playing action you want AND still have some break angle.
So to sum up, it's not the vibratos fault but it's the fault of anyone who put THAT vibrato together with THAT low-angled neck SG design. Unless you like a very very tall playing action (none of my customers do) this combination will always leave you with almost no break angle of the strings over the saddle.
@@SamDeeksRelovedGuitars Would the typical 3° angle on a Flying V work better with a vibrola? I want to build a replica of a 67 V in candy apple red and it kinda needs the vibrola for looks alone... I'll probably end up with a roller bridge but I have the occasion to set the neck myself since it's a CNC kit that needs fine tuning anyway. What neck angle is recommended? I don't need super low action though since my 8 or 9 gauge strings need a little higher action than heavier strings to avoid buzz.
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l A higher default bridge height seems to suit this vibrola design IIRC. Tbh I don't do enough of these to be fully conversant with it... in this video I'm just responding to the geometry I'm presented with and what can and can't work in that context.
Weird. I can pull the old 355 out a week later and its still in tune. And for chrissake get a de-esser
Not unless it's built in to Final Cut Pro... don't have time to strip out sound tracks and do extra audio processing.... I've recently stopped using the head-mounted mic and gone back to just the on-board iPhone mic. Plus's = more dynamic audio, less 'sssss'. Minus's = sound levels vary much more depending on distance from mic. I'll get complaints about that soon no doubt; the bottom line being that there's no perfect solution without setting up a sound-stage and spending weeks post-processing.
Sam I love your videos, but, this one was hard to watch as your commentary was quiet at times and then really loud. Not good whenever you're listening on headphones ☺️
Sorry Jim. It can be difficult to get right as I can be 4-5ft from the mic on the iPhone one minute and 1ft the next. I'm hesitant to use one of those 'audio-levellers' because while it does balance out the overall sound level it creates some odd effects as it boosts the signal AND the background noise in the process.... It occurs to me that now I have an iPhone 12 I *could* potentially use my head-mounted mic into the iPhone... will do some experiments!
Jim - the solution is at hand! ruclips.net/video/KpkhbUdM8fs/видео.html
Thank you Sam 👍👍👍
first i need say thank god i didn't bring my vintage gibson sg with this trem to your shop. the guitar would now be worthless. i haven't tried it myself as now my sg is 52 years old and i have had it from new. it is used but not abused. all original except the poker chip and the trem handle screw is missing. assessed at $5K+.
now the trouble with this trem is the same on the gibson i have. i did not try to solve the problem but have heard that it's possible solution is to shim the back most mount screws. it tilts the front down and with the original factory spec action is supposed to make the clearance. don't know for sure but am offering what i heard through a grapevine when much younger and still playing it.